Author Topic: Warship Race Redux  (Read 89477 times)

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #30 on: 16 March 2020, 15:32:42 »
Re AMS, how does the new rule look? Each wave is handled as an entity, not as individual missiles, if not destroyed outright due to damage, it takes the to hit penalty. So AMS may force the entire wave to miss, even if there isn't enough damage to kill every missile.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63819.0

Xotl said:
Capital Missile Bays: For the purposes of PDW fire, treat all missiles fired from a single bay as a single combined missile (i.e. PDW fire damages and inflicts to-hit penalties on the entire group, not against individual missiles). Similarly, the damage value of the missile flight is not reduced unless the entire flight is destroyed by PDW fire.

Hmm.  So a 60 point missile swarm is hard-killed by 200 AMS (or 2000 if our 100:1 applies here).  However, as each point of capital damage is a -1 to hit, its going to take rather less AMS to make a missile salvo unable to hit at all.  30/300 AMS would be -9 to hit, which is sufficient to force a miss by anything.

I think Lagrange's method will work better for us.  The RAW AMS rules are handy at preventing nukes, but as a side effect prevent missiles - and missiles have issues with damage-per-ton in the absence of ANY AMS weaponry...

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #31 on: 16 March 2020, 16:35:03 »
After discussing it with Marcus, I'll retract my claim to the DCA unless we have a shortage of players, in favour of being Assistant GM. The split of duties between us to be determined.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #32 on: 17 March 2020, 08:33:26 »
Edited first post with updated info.  Will continue to do so as further details are worked out.

If anyone interested would post what powers they are interested, in descending order.  First come first served (I went ahead and let TT claim the Marians, as he had them before and I dont expect a lot of competition for the job).
« Last Edit: 17 March 2020, 08:54:05 by marcussmythe »

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #33 on: 19 March 2020, 17:19:58 »
I’m following: I enjoyed the first one immensely.

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #34 on: 19 March 2020, 17:24:08 »
Don't suppose we could convince you to play Tyler?

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #35 on: 19 March 2020, 17:31:47 »
If we have players that want them, we could definitely do UHC and Rasalhague as playable - though Rasalhague would be a hard start, as historically they fall to the DC within the next 20 years and are already hurting.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #36 on: 19 March 2020, 17:33:29 »
... ugh I’d love to but I wouldn’t be able to commit fully to it. Honestly you’d be waiting for my posts forever: I’m not reliable lol and I wouldn’t want to impact the overall story.


I MAY... just MAY consider taking one of the smaller factions... but don’t count me on it ATM.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #37 on: 19 March 2020, 17:38:35 »
As you wish, and I respect your knowledge of your time available.  I think you overestimate the player workload, though.  It looks scary on the surface, but it rarely took me more than an hour to process a turn unless I was having waaaay too much fun desiging ships or writing fluff.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #38 on: 19 March 2020, 18:08:34 »
Put me as a tentative for Rasalhague... time to do some negotiating 

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #39 on: 20 March 2020, 09:29:46 »
OP updated with game state+rules spreadsheet (including starting positions and budgets) as well as starting map.

Jester Motley

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #40 on: 20 March 2020, 23:13:07 »
I'm game, if y'all will have me.

I'll take any great house except the DC.  A very slight pref to FedSuns, but if someone wants to play them, I'm happy to try other houses out for size.

If I'm CC again, I've got to have some form of starting parity, somehow.  Hell, if I'm running anyone, parity please, not having it burned me out last time, and the reason I just gave up caring.

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #41 on: 21 March 2020, 00:33:40 »
Budgets for the Big 5 are alot closer out of the starting gate then previously.

And with none of the Great Houses called for just yet, you are free to take your pick.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #42 on: 21 March 2020, 17:23:37 »
Question as I read the notes/Google Doc.

For starting standard weapons I see only a handful of the hints: AC 2’s, 5’s and MG’s. Should Lasers (basic and prototype) as well as LRM’s be on the list?

Also are we going to backdate certain weapons like RL’s, Vehicular Grenade Launchers, Recon Camera’s, etc? Things that plausibly should have existed in some form or another?

Typing from phone currently I’ll edit it later to reflect more solid ideas on such items.
« Last Edit: 21 March 2020, 17:28:47 by Tyler Jorgensson »

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #43 on: 21 March 2020, 18:56:32 »
Huh... you're right about the lasers and LRMs... don't know how we got that wrong last game... we also shouldn't have AR-10s yet.

And yes, RLs, Vehicular Grenade Launchers and the kind of stuff that should be pre- or early spaceflight will be allowed, though they are useless on a Warship so are unlikely to have much in-game effect.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #44 on: 21 March 2020, 19:13:50 »
Good catch, Tyler, and thank you.  Smegish has straightened the sheets out - and thank you for that.

VensersRevenge

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #45 on: 21 March 2020, 20:05:00 »
I've never done this before, but I am willing to try this out considering I now have a ton of free time. I'll play the FWL.
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #46 on: 21 March 2020, 22:09:08 »
Ill put you down for FWL, and welcome aboard!

Ill also note that Jester is tentatively Davion.

Though some details are different, I encourage everyone to look at some turns from the last game, go over the spreadsheets and fire off any questions they have or point out other stuff weve overlooked.

My intent is once weve got a few more players to start the ball rolling.  I figure keep all discussion here, and start a new thread that is -only- for players posting their turns and the GMs posting turn results.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #47 on: 21 March 2020, 23:37:19 »
Where was the list  of what Shipyards can produce at what rate? Trying to copy all the rules to my home computer in a file

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #48 on: 22 March 2020, 00:12:49 »
Construction rates will be the same as last game, 1 per 5 years (2 a turn) for any size ship up to the size of the yard. Each size category giving you 250KT to play with.

Marcus and I considered whether to allow multiple upgrades to the same yard -going from a Size 1 to a 3 in the same turn for example, don't believe we came to a final decision on that.

VensersRevenge

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #49 on: 22 March 2020, 00:16:00 »
I'm sure I'm missing something, but is 2 per yard per turn just warships, or also jumpships?

Also, is the technology cost 10m + 10% of the entire states budget or 10m + 10% of the states technology budget?
« Last Edit: 22 March 2020, 00:22:32 by VensersRevenge »
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #50 on: 22 March 2020, 01:03:17 »
I'm sure I'm missing something, but is 2 per yard per turn just warships, or also jumpships?

Also, is the technology cost 10m + 10% of the entire states budget or 10m + 10% of the states technology budget?

2 per yard per turn for warship (compact core) ships.
5 (I think) for custom jumpships (I dont expect this to get used much)
Generic Unit Jumpships are built in civilian yards, and do not require the navies yardspace.

You may research 1 new tech per category per turn, maximum, and it must be one of the first three unresearched techs in that category. 

Each tech researched costs a flat 10B, with the reduction for other powers that already have it, as well as an additional 10% of the Naval Budget.  Thus the TH with its 750B budget will pay 85B to bring a new technology to use in its navy, and the typical house with a 300B budget will pay 40B

This 10% is best thought of as all the -other- work necessary to get a new technology from ‘we can build one in the lab’ to ‘this is in mass production, installed on ships, can be maintained, and weve worked out doctrine to use it successfully’.  The reason its a % is because larger navies need to do these things for larger numbers of ships and yards and personell, and to keep larger powers from running away with a tech advantage.

My anticipation is that people will tend to buy 1 per turn, more or less, which puts us to about 2750 tech by about 2750 - but nothing keeps a nation from overheating its RnD budget and buying 3 a turn - this would make for a smaller, but after a few turns, very high tech, fleet.

A note on maintenance - and I may need to clarify this on the spreadsheet - paying listed maintenance is the default for normal performance.  You can overpay to represent improved readiness, training, skill, and maintenance - though past an additional 1.1 or 1.2 multiplier, your looking at diminishing returns.  Similarly, you can cut budget, but less than .8 it goes from ‘some problems’ to ‘massive problems’.  At 0%, a ship is laid up in mothballs, against future need, but not crewed and wont be useable until it starts getting paid for again (next turn, unless you say you want to call them up in emergencies on a rush basis, and set aside money or note a willingness to go into debt to make it so)

Debt:  You can spend over your budget.  This debt, like any excess, carries over from turn to turn.  Debt will accurue interest.  (Credit does not!  Beware too large reserves - beyond a certain point the government may decide if you dont need to spend it, they dont need to give it to you... this is also very appropriate to real world budgeting.  ;)

VensersRevenge

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #51 on: 22 March 2020, 02:01:02 »
Great! Thanks for the replies!
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

truetanker

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #52 on: 22 March 2020, 10:17:16 »
Wait... what's 10% of 50B again... :))

And great, there goes the Pukple Byrd again...  hi neighbor! * waves at the FWL as the MHF braces for it *

TT
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Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #53 on: 22 March 2020, 17:17:04 »
To give an idea of what the maintenance costs are going to be like, the Terran Hegemony Navy has about $177B left after paying maintenance for their fleet.

Thats a big drop from $750B, but they do have a substantial fleet right out of the gate

VensersRevenge

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #54 on: 22 March 2020, 17:41:10 »
Is it possible to increase the naval budget from colonizing new planets, conquering other worlds, or changes in government priorities?
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #55 on: 22 March 2020, 18:13:50 »
Naval Budgets will increase over time as worlds are colonized and developed, conquered and such.

 A lot of worlds on the map are actually empty at this time, but editing them out of the map ( and remembering to put them back) was deemed too much of a headache.

marcussmythe

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #56 on: 23 March 2020, 09:30:29 »
Is it possible to increase the naval budget from colonizing new planets, conquering other worlds, or changes in government priorities?

Some thoughts here - and this probably wont be modeled 'behind the scenes' in great detail, this isnt an economics simulator we are running, nor is it a 4X where every turn is a 'build a warship or build more factories' decision.

Core economies will grow over time, and thus the production base. The nation states get more integrated and functional, and population and industry will climb.  They wont climb as fast as you might think, because most worlds are marginal for human habitation (compared to Earth), and because technology is largely plateaued by 2350 - its slow growth and refinement, not Moore's Law.

As economies grow, the pie available for the navy also grows.  This will be influenced by conflict and the expectation of conflict, enhanced by gained territory, lost through commerce raiding, lost territory, and economic damages, and the attitudes and focus of leadership. 

Finally, theres a certain 'leveling' 'keeping up with the Jones' effect - consider that the mercantile powerhouse FWL and industrial focused LC were not the leading lights of the IS militaries, despite their economic strengths - the militarism and military focused FS, strongly authoritarian and even MORE militarily focused DC, and the 'directed economy CC all punched well above their economic weight - and any nation falling ~or perceived as falling~ behind in naval matters compared to its neighbors will tend to ramp up spending in exchange...  consider the nonsensical but effective phrase 'Cruiser Gap' or Churchills wry comment about the Dreadnought Race...  "The Admiralty had demanded six ships; the economists offered four; and we finally compromised on eight."

So, your not in charge of the economy, or of colonization efforts - but that doesnt mean you have NO levers.  A navy that is well designed for commerce protection, emergency response, colonization support, emergency response, etc. would tend to help the budget grow (howsoever slightly, but small amounts add up in the long run) and also 'looks better' to your politicians than a wall of battle that eats the whole budget and never gets used.  Of course, if your building hospital ships, colony ships, recharge stations, and the like, and ignoring that wall of battle - well, youll feel a little silly when your neighbor eats a dozen planets or sends his battle fleet to burn all the orbital infrastructure they can grab.

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #57 on: 24 March 2020, 00:41:39 »
And we're off!

Gentlemen, you have until April 10th (Good Friday) to get your turn reports and any other opening fluff pieces like Fleet Doctrine and such out there, then Marcus and I will do our best to get the turn resolved over the following week. After turn one we will try for 2 weeks for players to post turns, followed by a week for GMs to resolve it all.

Will be a bit more info on background stuff like your Fearless Leader and their possible effect on your budget and their likelihood of declaring war on the Terrans coming, when we finalize the details.

Get cracking folks!

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #58 on: 24 March 2020, 01:21:08 »
Lol I was gonna PM a rough draft .... guess I’ll have to put more work in... or both run it by the two of you to see if it’s up to par.

Smegish

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Re: Warship Race Redux
« Reply #59 on: 24 March 2020, 03:06:54 »
Can post a rough draft here, and we can point out any issues that need correcting. Lord knows I had to change my turns a time or two.

 

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