Battle Armor and its uses

[Coriendal]

I have never really understood the value of battlearmor.  It is slower than mechs and vehicles with less armor and weaponry.  It is better than infantry but other than riding in on a mech or vehicle it doesn't seem like a great option.  Boarding spacecraft, check, makes sense.  In a city or confined space, potentially useful.  But general use escapes me.

Any simple explanations would be nice.

Dan

[AlphaMirage]

Try here the first replies in that thread will give you the game accurate use cases for them.

[Weirdo]

Best way to use most BA and infantry is to think of them like semi-mobile minefields. Drop them off in some nice terrain(pretty much anything that isn't right in the open) that you don't want your opponent moving into. They can relocate a bit, but overall their job is to stay in that general area and make hostiles regret entering that particular patch of planet.

And if nobody goes near them and they never end up firing a shot, that means that decent-sized patch of map was owned by you the whole game. Win-win.

Unless you have a fast means of moving them across the map (such as a fast Omni, APC, or air transport), they work best in games with objectives where one side can play the defender. Place them where your opponent HAS to go, and they have no choice but to poke the hornets nest.

If you do have fast transports, you can use them offensively. That group of assaults and heavies sniping across the map from heavy woods cover? Drop some squads on top of or right behind them, and I can promise they won't be staying in those woods for long.

Finally, don't forget that BA can use Infernoes, because there's a good chance your opponent will, and a single Inferno-10 salvo is a fun tool to keep in your back pocket.

[Paul]

I have never really understood the value of battlearmor.

As others have said, they're great for area denial, and pretty good when assaulting a static position if you can get them close enough. And you're not wrong for pointing out their potential in an urban environment. They offer a decent combination of durability and short range fire power, but are outperformed by 'Mechs unless you're bringing a whole bunch of them.

This is meant to echo what Weirdo said:
The big utility is not to use them to *replace* 'Mechs, but to use them together *with* 'Mechs. Create situations where the enemy has to make decisions, with few good options. Do they invest in dealing with the infantry first, or do they ignore them? Either way you make them pay for their choice. If they want to destroy them, make that very difficult by using terrain. If they want to ignore them, use that to get in good shots.
If an enemy always has to pick between your Mechs and your infantry when deciding what to focus on in a turn, you're doing well.
If your BA is stranded in some irrelevant corner of the battle, then yes, they're pointless. But it's up to you to transport them.

Finally, don't forget that BA can use Infernoes, because there's a good chance your opponent will, and a single Inferno-10 salvo is a fun tool to keep in your back pocket.

Really? I thought that only the Salamanders could do that?

[Weirdo]

Yup, per Total War (I forget the page), Infantry(BA included) are denied most alternate ammo, but Inferno is one of the few called out exceptions.

Even more fun is that they're assigned by salvo, so your basic Elemental can carry one salvo of standard missiles and one of Inferno, and they can be fired in any order desired. It's particularly fun to have a fire shot or two in a suit that carries several shots, like the Ogre. When you've got eight shots, players will often forget over the course of the game that *one* of them is Inferno. And then you just wait for one enemy mech to push their heat scale while wandering too close, and...fwoosh. 

[Charistoph]

What I like to do is use a fast, mobile unit to deliver them to the opponent's rear or heavy line, or in anticipation of where they will be so they can intercept them.  This is particularly useful against units which cannot move quickly.

They're kind of like a mobile mine field in that respect, true.  Either they have to move to avoid the Battle Armor, or risk getting hampered by them.  They are particularly deadly with their Anti-Mech Attacks, as they have more opportunities to Crit with them than Conventional infantry do.

I got lucky the other night, and a Point of Elementals relieved an otherwise minimally damaged Bruin of one of its Legs, which left it doing very little for the rest of the game, as it wasn't in a good position.

[Paul]

Yup, per Total War (I forget the page), Infantry(BA included) are denied most alternate ammo, but Inferno is one of the few called out exceptions.

Huh, I never realized that. Found it, it's page 229. Pretty sure it's a change, but it's a good one.
Also funny: torpedoes are an ammo, not a launcher... =)

players will often forget over the course of the game that *one* of them is Inferno.

lol! Great idea

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Best way to use most BA and infantry is to think of them like semi-mobile minefields.

This is perhaps the best summarize for the battle armor(and also conventional infantry as well) on the battle focused on the ground armored units. They are pathetically slow compared by armors, and each one is easy to be killed while have very weak and (usually) suffered by short ranged shots, but because of this the unit of BA/CI you face is not the one personnel in the first place. A PPC can vaporize or cripple at worst a medium or lighter BA with armor point of 9 or less, but the most BA units have at least 4 BAs, and that one PPC shot could be spend for reducing the enemy mech/vehicle's armor by 10 instead. The infantry that needs the anti-armor weapon to be dispatched(or at least fast enough to do so), is a nuisance of its own already, and those 'infantry' also carries limited amount of mech/vehicle grade weapons as well. Those are lacking a big punch to penetrate a location and silence a mech immediately, but the overall damage isn't low enough to laugh off if they spent some load on the anti-mech grade weapons.

This fact, along with usually stuck at short ranged weapons and cheaper cost in overall, makes the summarize above; They cannot actively roam the battlefield and hunt down the enemy armor, but the armors are not so easily clear them and it's too inefficient to face to face and exchange close ranged shootings with them either. Not to mention that they may ambush and/or fight while within a building.

Their cheaper cost makes you easier to spend some to deny the designated field than place the full 20~100+ tons of armored units, and even if they didn't even had any shots through the battle as Weirdo pointed out if you don't want the opponent's units to be come closer to there they already earn their points.

[Martius]

As an area denial asset (and initiative sink) BA works great- even without firing a single shot or taking a single point of damage some squads were more than worth their price.

Some of the newer, faster suits are mobile enough to block quite an area of the battlefield. I like the IS BA Mag Clamps for this purpose, its jump of 4 and its abilty to hitch a ride on almost everything make it surprisingly mobile. Its weapons are lackluster but I use it for the classic kneecap and swarming rather the concentrated firepower approach many new designs seem to favour.

[Coriendal]

Thank you all for your useful responses.

I am trying to figure out a "real life" set of armies for 3025 that includes battle armor.  So, leg infantry, mechanized infantry (probably in 20 ton APC's so you can deploy a platoon), battle armor, vehicle units of several varieties, mechs, artillery and air support.  If I was defending or invading what percentage of these units would I have?  Because of rules or preference I see almost no artillery, little infantry, occasional battle armor, some vehicles and a lot of mechs.  Air support is only when the group prefers it.

If I was invading planet A with a garrison of about 1 division, what would that division be?  Obviously a planet with some terrain could have a leg infantry regiment, a combined mechanized infantry and armor regiment, a mech battalion, 1 armor battalion, artillery and air support, with or without battle armor support.  Invading forces might be more mobile, with less leg infantry but battle armor support.  Lots to think about.

Again, thank you!

[Coriendal]

AlphaMirage, those links were golden.  Thanks.

[AlphaMirage]

AlphaMirage, those links were golden.  Thanks.

Feel free to browse the other ones linked in my sig.

[Daryk]

If BA are just being introduced to your 3025, I think a starting point might be one squad of BA per company of conventional infantry (probably as part of the Weapons Platoon).  Later on, they'd start to be used as pure BA units.

[Paul]

I am trying to figure out a "real life" set of armies for 3025 that includes battle armor.

Depends on what you mean with '3025'.
If you mean, the factions that existed in 3025, then only the Clans would have Battle Armor, on their home worlds.
ComStar also has some (PAL) but they don't deploy it openly in 3025.

If you mean the technology in 3025, so effectively introductory, then BA is technically not a part of 3025 tech. But yes, if that's the only change, then using APCs is definitely the way to go.

So, leg infantry, mechanized infantry (probably in 20 ton APC's so you can deploy a platoon), battle armor, vehicle units of several varieties, mechs, artillery and air support.

Yes, most larger BattleMech formations organize that way, not just RCTs.

If I was defending or invading what percentage of these units would I have?  Because of rules or preference I see almost no artillery, little infantry, occasional battle armor, some vehicles and a lot of mechs.  Air support is only when the group prefers it.

Around 3025, the majority of Mech regiments organized with 1:1:1. 1 Regiment of Mechs was supported by 1 Regiment of Vehicles (usually combat focussed) and 1 regiment of infantry (not clear if they had their own APCs, but this seems probable)
RCTs are an exception I'm going to ignore.

If you take 1:1:1, and you further decide only 1 company in 10 is equipped with Battle Armor, then that's 3 platoons of 4 squads each, and each squad has 4 suits. So 48 suits for the regiment.

If I was invading planet A with a garrison of about 1 division, what would that division be?  Obviously a planet with some terrain could have a leg infantry regiment, a combined mechanized infantry and armor regiment, a mech battalion, 1 armor battalion, artillery and air support, with or without battle armor support.  Invading forces might be more mobile, with less leg infantry but battle armor support.  Lots to think about.

Only a handful of planets in the known universe would be protected by a division worth of equipment. Some planets have only a few companies of militia tanks and all the infantry they can eat.
Many worlds never see a 'Mech that isn't a pirate or raider. Unless they hire some mercenaries themselves.

I say Division worth of troops, since only the SLDF organized in Divisions: no one does anymore. (ComStar's Divisions are basically 2 regiments of mixed type troops)
But back then, it would be 3 brigades, of 3 regiments each.

[dgorsman]

At the higher levels, terms become more nebulous.  A 'division' (capitalized or no) could mean several things with varying numbers and types of combat elements without even considering attachments or being short handed due to previous combat losses or detachments used to reinforce other formations/locations. 

Similarly, unlike a Mech Regiment which is most likely all-Mech, a Mechanized Infantry Regiment is almost certainly not exclusively 'mechanized infantry' by the unit type.  They may have two mechanized infantry battalions and one motorized, or vice-versa.  The mechanized battalions may be as the unit type but could also be foot/jump infantry with permanently attached transports like Maxims or APCs, or a mix between the two.  The motorized battalion may also have a similar mix with companies consisting of air-mobile foot/jump infantry and dedicated transport VTOLs.  This also applies to 'leg' infantry regiments, which may very well have significant vehicle APC assets at the battalion or regimental level, assigned on an as-needed basis to provide temporary mobility.

The mix in infantry units is also dependent on the formations role.  Formations attached to front line RCTs or similar with have a higher percentage of heavier equipment, while those used as garrison forces will have higher percentages of motorized infantry for the well-funded and foot infantry for the rest.  The average out-of-the-way garrison force may well find themselves using mechanized infantry (as the unit type) as the fire support or weapons platoon for a foot infantry company in place of actual tanks like Bulldogs or Vedettes used in more prominent formations.

[Starfury]

Battle armor also works well as spotters or objective holders.  They can also swarm enemy units or even leg cap a Mech or knock out movement systems on a vehicle.  As the timeline rolls on battle armor gain access to more damaging and long range weapons, target acquisition gear, C3 systems, a dizzying array of
 stealth systems, sensors, parafoils, artillery, mine laying and sweeping equipment, quad chassis, VTOL flight, and more.  One of the assault suits even mounts a Mech scale extended range pulse laser! In addition, almost every faction has them by the Early Republic era if not before.

The

[Colt Ward]

They can also swarm enemy units

Only Swarm vehicles.

As most said, to start off consider them a semi-mobile minefield and never deploy a single squad/point- you must have some numbers.

Once you get used to what BA can do, AND your opponent's typical response, then you can bring in the mobile mediums and got for the legs.  Back on the MegaMek servers, my battle armor took so many legs they became a target with the start of the game (taking the leg off a pristine Banshee as it tries to close it up with 5/8 Clan mechs makes a statement) . . . but that is fine, while they are focusing on keeping away from my BA and/or firing on it means my vehicles and mechs are getting free run.

One of the other things to keep in mind is, depending on faction, and with the provision of it has been a while since I have done any of this not in MM . . . a stealth armor unit cannot be the subject of a secondary target.  I am not sure if this applies to BA as well as mechs & vehs, a quick look at TW was not showing.  BUT if that is the case, it forces even more of a choice- especially since most BA stealth armor has some modifiers for short range unlike mech/veh stealth armor.

[The Eagle]

Battle armor also works well as spotters or objective holders.

My favorite use for battle armor is the stealth-armored Achileus with light TAG to spot for indirect semi-guided LRM barrages.  The same could also be used for Arrow IV.  Infantry have always been good spotters for indirect fire, and battle armor largely continues that trend.

[OatsAndHall]

BA and infantry are the best spotters for IDF in the game as they don't have to apply their movement modifier to the firing solution. 

As has been pointed out, they're great for area denial as people shouldn't underestimate how nasty leg and swarm attacks are. Particularly leg attacks; the potential for crits make BA scary.

[Col Toda]

Battle Armor and by extention infantry has always served a couple of functions .
1 If you have infantry or battle armor embedded in an attacking or defensive force AND some survive the battle it is presumed the winner can salvage rhe whole battlefield before a counter attack challenge the winner for the salvaged spoils.

2 Rear area crowd control .

3 Area Denial. 

4 Engineering: mine laying or clearing.  Bridge building, Tunnel digging , Remote sensor deployment.  And Salvage . Check out the Gopher Armored Exoskeleton from the vehicle annex. The term Mission equipment is the biggest understatement of the game.

5 actual combat  meantioned by just about everyone else. 

All units in Battletech are tools . You get the least resource wastage by using the correct one.

[OatsAndHall]

At the very least, infantry and BA can be cheap distractions. They can tie up heaver units' movement and attention which opens up other doors.  Particularly if you have a way to dump them behind the opposition quickly.

[Ferrosol]

Yeah there's broadly speaking four or five roles BA and to a lesser extent infantry can fulfil.

1. The Semi-mobile minefield defence as discussed above which can defend key areas on the cheap and good BA can create a bubble that an enemy unit really doesn't want to be in. Especially effective in congested or built up terrain you do not want to fight battle armour in a city.
2. Spotting for Indirect fire BA don't take move or firing penalties when spotting for IDF plus they're harder to hit than mechs or vehicles doing the same job. Park a lance of LRM carriers behind a ridge and put a BA on that ridge and it can spot for days. Bonus points if they have BA TAG.
3. Clean up duty - especially if you're fighting to the death or up against an enemy doing likewise you don't want to waste your mechs turns shooting mechs that are crippled when you could use cheap battle armour to finish off that legless phoenix hawk.
4. Ablative armour for omni-mechs - less so in the current rule set but they could take shots while mounted on a mech that were meant for the mech. an occasionally useful role for any less than competent BA.
5. RP/Fluff roles - if you're doing something other than a straight up brawl BA add additional tactical capabilities to your force and can go places and do things that mechs never could without causing too much collateral damage.

[Hellraiser]

Huh, I never realized that. Found it, it's page 229. Pretty sure it's a change, but it's a good one.


Also funny: torpedoes are an ammo, not a launcher... =)

Not sure about the change, I think it's always been that way seeing as how Infantry & Mechs/Vees always could.
The Salamander is just possibly the ONLY clan unit that specifically mentions USING Infernos in the TRO Fluff
 (I got the impression they are slightly frowned upon like Physicals as undignified/dishonorable, but to the point of Dezgra.)
They are also the first gen that has Fire Proof armor so maybe you're mixing up the 2?


Torpedoes are not a launcher?
Where is that from?

[AlphaMirage]

There is a harpoon SRM ammo and you do need torpedo missile launchers. Technically there is also the torpedo bomb.

[DOC_Agren]

Thank you all for your useful responses.

I am trying to figure out a "real life" set of armies for 3025 that includes battle armor.  So, leg infantry, mechanized infantry (probably in 20 ton APC's so you can deploy a platoon), battle armor, vehicle units of several varieties, mechs, artillery and air support.  If I was defending or invading what percentage of these units would I have?  Because of rules or preference I see almost no artillery, little infantry, occasional battle armor, some vehicles and a lot of mechs.  Air support is only when the group prefers it.

If I was invading planet A with a garrison of about 1 division, what would that division be?  Obviously a planet with some terrain could have a leg infantry regiment, a combined mechanized infantry and armor regiment, a mech battalion, 1 armor battalion, artillery and air support, with or without battle armor support.  Invading forces might be more mobile, with less leg infantry but battle armor support.  Lots to think about.

Again, thank you!

3025 in theory there should not be any Battlearmor around.
But yes the realworld size would be what listed above, but unless you are a golden world, to many Mechs in that force.

But how many active and reserve troops you have, is up to the ruler.  Me a good rule is to keep a loyal follower in charge of my capital defense, and make a rule, any other local forces cross a line into capital area without being cleared is considered in revolt and will be attacked.

But back to use of BA:
1. I have used BA squads to act as mobile firesupport for Inf Platoons
2. Spec Forces launching deep raids on enemy C&C and Rearm/Repair sites
3. Cleaning up secured battlefields, after all you never know who might be alive
4. Marine Operations

[Charistoph]

3025 in theory there should not be any Battlearmor around.

Battle Armor existed in 3025.  Most were far away from the Clan Homeworlds.  However, all the ones in the Inner Sphere were in Star League caches and in ComStar control.

[Colt Ward]

Lol, imagine the stir from that false flag from ComStar.  Particularly if the left does not know what the right hand is doing.

[Hellraiser]

If I was invading planet A with a garrison of about 1 division, what would that division be?  Obviously a planet with some terrain could have a leg infantry regiment, a combined mechanized infantry and armor regiment, a mech battalion, 1 armor battalion, artillery and air support, with or without battle armor support. 

Probably too many mechs for "most" planets, but not impossible either.
   No BA in 3025 for IS Garrisons.
   Heck, by 3067 there is STILL no BA for "Garrisons" unless they have it attached to a major Mech Unit.

Generic Garrison/Militia "Division"
Infantry Brigade #1  (3 Foot Regiments)
Upgraded Infantry Brigade #2  (2 Foot Regiments + 1 Motorized Regiment)   
"Mechanized/Armor" Brigade
  (1 Motor Reg, 1 Lit Tank Reg, 2 Med Tank Bats,  Mech Company  (1 Medium + 2 Light Lances),  Fighter Wing  (6 Light ASF,  12 Light/Medium Conventional Fighters)
Both "Armor" Regiments can call on 4 Thumpers for Artillery Support

[Daryk]

The only ingredient 3025 was missing was armor.  All the structural bits are TL C.

[DOC_Agren]

The only ingredient 3025 was missing was armor.  All the structural bits are TL C.

and the old saying "Life Cheap"

Also I forgot 1 more use
Exosuit as a Aerospace Flight Suit..  does great if your are forced to leave the craft in space because of an Oops