Research: Maximilian Liao's first wife

[Frabby]

We know from Elizabeth Jordan Liao's writeup in the original Liao housebook that she married Maximilian Liao after his first wife died in a mountaineering accident on Wei.

Sarna had redlinks throughout various articles suggesting the mother of Maximilian's three children was one Jasmine Liao, but there never was an article about her.
When trying to find a quotable source for where the name Jasmine Liao came from we found out that it apparently originated in a "List of BattleTech characters" on Wikipedia that was used as the basis for the Maximilian Liao article on Sarna back in 2007 and doesn't exist anymore.
We now think there may be a mixup with Jasmine Kurita here.

Was it ever mentioned anywhere in canon what Maximilian Liao's first wife's name was?

[Mendrugo]

The family tree in the back of the Liao book is a bust - just has a line going straight down from Max, implying he generated all three kids himself.  No mention of the wife's name.  Not seeing anything in Handbook: House Liao either.

There was a Jasmine Liao, but she was a Chancellor who lived in the 2400s.

[tassa_kay]

There was a Jasmine Liao, but she was a Chancellor who lived in the 2400s.

To be fair, we've seen two separate Melissa Steiners, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that Max could've married a woman named Jasmine.

[Mendrugo]

Nothing in the Warrior Trilogy either.

[ColBosch]

The family tree in the back of the Liao book is a bust - just has a line going straight down from Max, implying he generated all three kids himself.  No mention of the wife's name.

First place I looked, and yup, looks like Max Liao's kids were the product of abiogenesis, like leeches or maggots. It did, however, remind me that Tormano existed.

I checked the pre-House Liao sources and nada. This might be a case of canonical uncertainty; nobody has filled in that blank yet.

[BrianDavion]

To be fair, we've seen two separate Melissa Steiners, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that Max could've married a woman named Jasmine.

And perhaps more relevant to the era of writing, there was also a Fedsuns first Prince named Melissa Davion.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

And perhaps more relevant to the era of writing, there was also a Fedsuns first Prince named Melissa Davion.

Yet another thing that Victor doesn't know.

Personally I'm with Frabby on this one, I think our mystery writer just mixed up Max and Takashi.

[BrianDavion]

Yet another thing that Victor doesn't know.

only if you assume he was ignorant when he said his mother was on his side and it wasn't him selection a ship with that name because it would carry some subtle ressonance of his mother, intent or not 

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Why wouldn't i? If Victor knew who she was, she would have been his hero. She had the balls to actually give up her title and name and become a common soldier, something Victor only ever complained about and never actually acted on.

We already know that he doesn't know making someone his regent will disinherit them, so he probably doesn't know who Alexander is either.

[glitterboy2098]

victor's hang ups with his family's status seems like it would cause him to not pay attention in history classes, at least to anything that wasn't older than the age of war. and it certainly would have kept him from doing deep dives into the legal codes of Fedcom nobility.

[Mendrugo]

victor's hang ups with his family's status seems like it would cause him to not pay attention in history classes, at least to anything that wasn't older than the age of war. and it certainly would have kept him from doing deep dives into the legal codes of Fedcom nobility.

He learns his history from the walls of the Davion palace:

The Leftenant returned to his own office on the ground floor while
Victor and Galen climbed a broad marble staircase to the third floor. Turning
right at a massive bronze statue of Ares, they entered a long corridor lined
with white marble pillars. The walls were decorated with an elaborate mural
depicting the history of House Davion. Victor slowed so Galen could study
the painting.
“This is it, Galen, the history of humanity according to the Davions.”

The Kurita occupation force probably had a fair amount of fun desecrating that hallway.

[BrianDavion]

Why wouldn't i? If Victor knew who she was, she would have been his hero. She had the balls to actually give up her title and name and become a common soldier, something Victor only ever complained about and never actually acted on.

We already know that he doesn't know making someone his regent will disinherit them, so he probably doesn't know who Alexander is either.

can we please stop acting like this complete ignorance of fedsuns history and consitituional structure is some character flaw of Victor's? and instead reckongize it as what it is... FASA not reading their own bloody sourcebooks?

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

can we please stop acting like this complete ignorance of fedsuns history and consitituional structure is some character flaw of Victor's? and instead reckongize it as what it is... FASA not reading their own bloody sourcebooks?

If you make the same mistake enough times it becomes a character trait. If you write "Victor is a soldier's soldier, he's not interested in politics" and then your writers screw up on history or political structure, that isn't incontiguous with what you wrote, it is a supporting detail to a character trait you already established. I know you don't like it because it does worship the almighty Davion like you prefer, but Hanse and Melissa were clearly parents who were way too permissive and let their kids avoid any subject they didn't like.

Let's say I mean to say that Chandrasekhar Kurita weighs 200 kilos but I'm on a ten-key so I type that he weighs 500 kg. Then that gets through fact check. Well we were already told he was fat, now we know HOW fat he is.

[tassa_kay]

Why not just... correct the error, instead of running with it? I don't understand why BattleTech seems almost allergic to fixing errors in the fiction.

[BrianDavion]

Why not just... correct the error, instead of running with it? I don't understand why BattleTech seems almost allergic to fixing errors in the fiction.

To be fair despite what Ceaser says they DO correct the errors. The FCCW errors where a problem because they where so persistant across so many characters, it's why I say this was ultimately something that should be chalked up to "writer error"

in the case of the FCCW it baffled me, because they doubled down in "well yeah these rules still exist, but KSD has the throne anyway cause... reasons!" when it would have been easy eneugh to fix it by simply saying that when the FedCom was formed the FS and LC re-wrote their laws of sucession to stream line it, seeing the demand for military service as a "relic that had outlived it's time" but inste

[tassa_kay]

To be fair despite what Ceaser says they DO correct the errors

Sometimes. Not often enough, IMO.

seeing the demand for military service as a "relic that had outlived it's time"

I don’t think it’s a relic at all, considering how often the FedSuns (and everyone else) finds itself in some armed conflict or another.

[BrianDavion]

Sometimes. Not often enough, IMO.

I don’t think it’s a relic at all, considering how often the FedSuns (and everyone else) finds itself in some armed conflict or another.

I don't eaither, but the primary reason the first Prince is mandated to serve in the military service was after Alexander Davion won the civil war, the idea being that it would ensure the first prince "always had the loyalty of the military" it would make a lot more sense to simply write "yeah Hanse and Melissa changed this because they decided it wasn't a good diea blah blah blah" hell they could even have mentioned Hanse came to the conclusion is was bad because he realzied how easy it would have been for both him and Ian to have been killed on the battlefeild close together or something, ANYTHING would have been better then that shitty "lol posession is nine tenths of the law" sidebar in the FCCW SB

[Hellraiser]

I think the issue really is that Katie wasn't ever legally 1st Prince(ss).

She accepted Yvonne's invitation to take over as Regent.

The real issue, as I see it, is that w/ all the people around her, no one could talk Yvonne out of stepping down.

One would think that Tancred, Ardan, Jackson, someone, anyone, would have tried to do so.

That said, as we saw, Katie had fans even in the Davion side of the FC & yeah, Possession IS 9/10. 

Especially if/when it is only legally as Regent & then the real prince decides to become a gardener when he comes back & doesn't bother with going home & putting things in order.

Legally, per the laws, she was still the Regent regardless of what she claimed & was put in that position by Yvonne who was stressing out as a 20 year old who was way beyond her depth in the role.

The bigger issue to me is that Victor didn't fix that situation the second he got back. 
Given how popular he was at the time he could have retaken the throne on New Avalon w/o much of a fight. 
Oh Katie would have fought, but the troops at that point?  That I'm not so sure about.
It's one thing for the 3rd RR to fight in 3065-66, but in 3060 if Victor, Yvonne, Tancred, & several RCTs showed up.
I'm doubting that C* gets involved & the 1st DG was Loyal.
Point is, letting that situation fester for 2 years made the FCCW possible.

[BrianDavion]

Ohh agreed, had VSD just lanced on New Avalon with his regiments in tow... publicly congratualted Katherine for her "wonderful job as regent" publicly relieved her of it... KSD would have been in a position where doing anything other then smiling sweetly accepting VSD's taking back the throne and [retending she didn't just try to usurp his throne, was really the only thing she could do.

Because if VSD had arrived on new avalon in 3060 at the head of several AFFC regiments, the conquering hero... and legitimate first prince, NO ONE would have obeyed KSD's orders to open fire on him

[butchbird]

On the thread subject, the OP's thesis is definitely the right one (I'm surprised), but a little anecdote if you will, for its poped in my head reading this thread.

My father once worked as the (very small) mall santa claus. He was quite amused how the naming of children often concorded with popular tv shows.

It would only take an inner sphere wide holovid phenomenon for there to be many a Jasmine for that generation.

[mikecj]

Ohh agreed, had VSD just lanced on New Avalon with his regiments in tow... publicly congratualted Katherine for her "wonderful job as regent" publicly relieved her of it... KSD would have been in a position where doing anything other then smiling sweetly accepting VSD's taking back the throne and [retending she didn't just try to usurp his throne, was really the only thing she could do.

Because if VSD had arrived on new avalon in 3060 at the head of several AFFC regiments, the conquering hero... and legitimate first prince, NO ONE would have obeyed KSD's orders to open fire on him

 "Katherine Steiner-Davion seized on the opportunity and invoked war powers on 18 September 3057 to secede the Lyran half of the nation from the alliance, calling it the "Lyran Alliance", and signed a peace treaty with Marik, resulting in the creation of the Chaos March."  https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lyran_Commonwealth
Katherine had already stolen half the realm before Bulldog/Serpent (begins May 3059), Victor came home in 3060 and he didn't begin the FCCW until 3062. 

[BrianDavion]

"Katherine Steiner-Davion seized on the opportunity and invoked war powers on 18 September 3057 to secede the Lyran half of the nation from the alliance, calling it the "Lyran Alliance", and signed a peace treaty with Marik, resulting in the creation of the Chaos March."  https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lyran_Commonwealth
Katherine had already stolen half the realm before Bulldog/Serpent (begins May 3059), Victor came home in 3060 and he didn't begin the FCCW until 3062.

I had thought it obvious that we're talking the FedSuns half of the realm

[mikecj]

The 1st Guards were on New Avalon and they could have stopped the Archon Princess... and didn't.

[BrianDavion]

The 1st Guards were on New Avalon and they could have stopped the Archon Princess... and didn't.

they may not have been, as they where part of waves 1 and 2 of operation bulldog. We dunno where they where after that, but still, the fact is, KSD was the lawful regent, at most, and the MINUTE VSD returned she should have been forced to vacate. There are soo many ways they could have done the FCCW storyline but failed to. Frankly given everything that happened? Victor should have died in the great refusal they then would have been able to have the general outcome and story beats. KSD takes the throne, her parnoid and vain actions spark a rebellion, and Peter and Yvvone each take half a realm, being the next in line for those thrones anyway.

[Hellraiser]

The 1st Guards were on New Avalon and they could have stopped the Archon Princess... and didn't.

they may not have been, as they where part of waves 1 and 2 of operation bulldog. We dunno where they where after that, but still, the fact is, KSD was the lawful regent, at most,

More importantly, NO, they couldn't have, even if they were back home by then, which they probably were since after Wave-4 ended, I assume the non-Kuritan units went back to their parent countries after some time, but not sure how soon after W4 was over.
Yvonne, the LEGAL REGENT, invited her sister to come & help & essentially take over "AS REGENT".   (From what I recall anyway)
Which was legal AFAIK.
The Illegal part comes in once she is there & starts calling herself "First Princess".
So the DBG doing anything at that point before Victor returned would likely have been seen as overly excessive reaction at best & treason at worst.
Was Katie being underhanded, sure, but it wasn't "illegal" to be invited to New Avalon as "Regent 2.0" by Yvonne.

[O5P_Ghost]

I thought this thread was about the Capellans. It seems like its all about Victor now. All hail the conquering Prince!

[BrianDavion]

I mean... what's there to talk about the capcon? there's certainly no mistakes to analyze and debate. :)

[tassa_kay]

I mean... what's there to talk about the capcon? there's certainly no mistakes to analyze and debate. :)

Kinda makes you wanna come over to the winning side, doesn't it? 

[BrianDavion]

Kinda makes you wanna come over to the winning side, doesn't it? 

... not really.

Jokes aside I do feel that the CapCon honestly lacks certain things that makes it intreasting, intreasting subdivisions and subfactions (hell with the MAC leaving what intreasting REGIMENTS does the capcon have these days? Like seriously I'd love to put together a capellan company when the MAC box comes out but I honestly can't find a single regiment that stands out as intreasting. even the udnerdog status of the CC is gone now that they've the biggest military in the Inner Sphere (granted I expect IKEO to be unkind to the CCAF, we know the MAC is leaving and I can't imagine a egotist like Daoshen just letting them go)

[O5P_Ghost]

I do like the 15th Dracon, Tau Ceti Rangers, and the St. Ives Armored Cav for the CCAF but two of those are former mercs so I guess there's a point to meh about the CCAF