Growing your fleet

[Sjhernan3060]

Both of those are really way way more than a Black Lion could handle, even were they in somewhat poor condition - a Black Lion was what canonically destroyed the Spirit Flagship.  And yes, the last canon Farragut was dismantled in 2766.  I would suggest using either a Cameron, Liberator, or Sovetskii Soyuz as their flagship, with probably a destroyer-sized warship as the last, 6th warship (any of them or any of the corvettes would work).  If I were to pick one, I'd probably opt for a Liberator, though it has some significant armor flaws, ignoring them it's the most well rounded of the suggestions.

A number of people have correctly pointed out that the black lion which took out the carmine Justice should have struggled to do so. I am curious if once the spirits jumped in the burrocks and adders threw a lot of fire power at it and if was the lion who should simply finished it

[Ruger]

Both of those are really way way more than a Black Lion could handle, even were they in somewhat poor condition - a Black Lion was what canonically destroyed the Spirit Flagship.   

Then again, the Smoke Jaguars lost a McKenna to a Du Shi Wang...granted, Clan Mongoose had increased the Quicksilver Mongoose's firepower and heat dissappation...but it was still far inferior to its enemy (of course, we have no real idea how much help they had in that battle either)...

Ruger

[Easy]

cleanup

[Kit deSummersville]

Then again, the Smoke Jaguars lost a McKenna to a Du Shi Wang...granted, Clan Mongoose had increased the Quicksilver Mongoose's firepower and heat dissappation...but it was still far inferior to its enemy (of course, we have no real idea how much help they had in that battle either)...

Ruger

[Yoda] You will. [/Yoda]

[Sjhernan3060]

Did warship construction essentially halt until the gear up to the invasion? Was the mongoose absportion the biggest space battle in the home worlds until the burrocks got absorbed?

[Colt Ward]

You want big . . . especially with the Spirit's initial colonization push . . . go with a Monsoon.

[Kit deSummersville]

Did warship construction essentially halt until the gear up to the invasion?

No, there were a few new classes introduced prior to the 31st century.

[Colt Ward]

To expand on my earlier answer . . .

It would, IMO, have made sense for the early Spirits to claim a Monsoon out of the mothball fleets if any survived.  They went into colonization in a big way in the early era, and its collars along with the huge cargo capacity would give a great start to any new Spirit colonies.  It would not have been a highly sought after ship like the latest in Star League Navy designs such as the McKenna or Avatar.  It should have very good command facilities for operating a fleet or even coordinating planet-side actions.  Finally, it should already have a LF Battery, which will be a strategic asset.

[AlphaMirage]

Did warship construction essentially halt until the gear up to the invasion? Was the mongoose absportion the biggest space battle in the home worlds until the burrocks got absorbed?

With so many vessels in mothballs and with such a "small" sector of space to work in I don't see why the Clans would need more Warships.  The Raven's Lum Shipyards probably were just busy keeping Jumpships in good repair in exchange for additional barter material from all the clans.  I doubt most of the Warships besides those of the Ravens (and one of the Fire Mandrill Kindraa I believe lived on one) were deployed frequently outside their capital systems. 

Doesn't really keep with the make no waste philosophy of the Clans if they were frequently in combat (though were always likely ready for it due to paranoia).

[Colt Ward]

If you look at the ships that were built, most were task specific . . . the Nightlord was designed by the 'pros' and unlike the SL ships could drop mechs directly to the planet.  The Fredasa?  Small patrol ship better than the Vincent . . . might have been used to explore since it would not been as expensive to operate on the fringes- I think it had a DS while SL corvettes lacked?  The Conquerer & Leviathan had been planned once the return started being discussed but not built until after the invasion.  The other ships we know were new designs were mothballed- I am willing to bet they are going to have problems rookie designers will have made- quirks like, Difficult to Maintain, Uncomfortable Quarters, or other of the quirks having to do with designs.  Think of some of the problems the IS had when designing ships- like the Impavido which is bad for crews.

[Sjhernan3060]

To expand on my earlier answer . . .

It would, IMO, have made sense for the early Spirits to claim a Monsoon out of the mothball fleets if any survived.  They went into colonization in a big way in the early era, and its collars along with the huge cargo capacity would give a great start to any new Spirit colonies.  It would not have been a highly sought after ship like the latest in Star League Navy designs such as the McKenna or Avatar.  It should have very good command facilities for operating a fleet or even coordinating planet-side actions.  Finally, it should already have a LF Battery, which will be a strategic asset.

Thanks for adding context on why you would choose a monsoon that’s very interesting. Besides the not so small notion that they were taken or all destroyed wouldn’t a Texas or Farragut meet or exceed the monsoon?

[Colt Ward]

I am not in a position to look at the stats at the moment, but I do not know if their cargo space is as large.  I also do not think the Texas were set up as flagships to the same degree as Monsoons.  Finally, you also want to look at a ship that can be defeated by whatever took out their flagship- after all Clan Mongoose, a aerospace Clan, had a Capellan ship as their flagship . . . and the Wolves have a SoySov, so it does not have to be a great ship lol.

[Wotan]

and the Wolves have a SoySov, so it does not have to be a great ship lol.

More surprising, when you consider that the Wolves also had access to a McKenna and a Texas at the same time.

[Ruger]

More surprising, when you consider that the Wolves also had access to a McKenna and a Texas at the same time.

And in 3145, their flagship was said to be CWS Rogue, a Congress-class frigate...smallest of their 5 WarShips...

Ruger

[Gaiiten]

The massive losses of the Wars of Reaving may start a construction of new ship classes among the Home Clans.

[truetanker]

Or they could look into the Old Naval caches... There might be some left over from Pentagon Wars, mothballed or what not.

There's still that Jade Falcon design, one of their first, without stats... I think a light class Frigate?

Maybe they'll use more jumpers but with safecon? And use naval stations at each end? Who knows... Brent might  ::)! He knows everything... so does Ray! (sometimes)

TT

[Wotan]

As far as i know when the homeworlds lost contact to the IS they knew the IS was building new warships and knew the way to the homeworlds. It would be crazy not to build something for protection against that tainted barbarians.

[truetanker]

Then my next question should be, who has a working yard? And can you trust them enough to repair yours and finally, would they share new builds and stuff in the face of a second invasion? Would you do the same if they came knocking??

TT

[Wotan]

We don't know how much of a leading force the Star Adders will be and if they can establish something like team work within the remaining clans. There are enough damaged yards around the homeworlds and enough time to rebuild sufficient output.

We know that the Ravens build warships for other clans in the past. And that in time of constant trials and competition. Why not similar deals after the WoR? It is unlikely that one clan alone will have the resources to do so soon. And it is more unlikely that the other clans will sit back and watch while one clan in their mid will build new warships alone.
But they all have to realize that they are in need of new warships.

[truetanker]

Put it this way,

I play Stone Lions. I know I have a York-class DD/CV, and two Lola III-clan light DDs. I also have a limited number of Jumpers, were I to rely on Odyssey, Comitatus, Hunter and any old Star League version still around... I have no choice to field anything else. But if we were to meet on the ground, that's a different matter.

So again, jumpers with safecon sounds more appropriate, quiaff?

TT

[Wotan]

So again, jumpers with safecon sounds more appropriate, quiaff?

Neg - as you know the tainted IS surats will never grant you safecon. And more so, when you have to defend your homeworld, when they come with their own warships. Thats the scenario the homeworlds have to prepare to.

If the IS hadn't received the homeworld navigation route, the homeworlds would be safe and the clans could play with each other (ignoring the fact, that a IS ship once alrady stumbled over the homeworlds).
If the homeworld clans know that the IS is in bad shape and the warlords have other problems than to hunt claners in the homeworlds, it might be different. But as far as i understand the homeworlds cut contact much earlier.

[truetanker]

I was referring to Home World tactics, IF the IS does come a-knocking... I believe a unified HW clan strike would be available... capturing any WS as fast as can be... Most likely it'll be IS Clans doing the invading to bring back their " ancestral " homes... not House led. Though RAF would seem the most prudent...

TT

[Gaiiten]

Then my next question should be, who has a working yard? And can you trust them enough to repair yours and finally, would they share new builds and stuff in the face of a second invasion? Would you do the same if they came knocking??

TT

The Coyotes do have a working Naval Yard (Kirin Yards) for producing Jumpships.
Further we know that the Adders did capture the gigantic Leviathan Prime Yard from the Vipers, dismantled it and were busily working to rebuild it in their Home System Hoard. The Priori Yards were reported as being damaged in the WoR but a have been under repair since.

So IMHO it is very likely that the Home Clans do have capabilities to build new warships in future.

I think there can be even some mothballed warships left, so TPTB could use them for new Clantech refits, improving them.

[Colt Ward]

I think there can be even some mothballed warships left, so TPTB could use them for new Clantech refits, improving them.

Monsoon IIC!

[Sjhernan3060]

Monsoon IIC!

Lots of monsoon love! I need to look into this ship..,

[Sjhernan3060]

 Oops prob In the wrong thread!


 To boost your fleet numbers we also have the example of what the ravens did the scorpions during the wars of reaving. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sagitta

Now do we think that this was a sign of the crazy times or something that a small but elite clan like the mandrills or spirits could have tried?

[Gaiiten]

Salvage from destroyed and disabled ships could be another source.

If possible you could even rapair ships and get them back in use.
If not, you could salvage any parts which can be used or even recycled. Maybe the Clans could construct unique "Frankenstein" ships, made of parts taken from different warship types.

At least, given the highly sophisticated Level of Recycling the Clans possess, I think they could reuse almost all what they salvage from the naval battlefields of the WoR.

[Sjhernan3060]

Salvage from destroyed and disabled ships could be another source.

If possible you could even rapair ships and get them back in use.
If not, you could salvage any parts which can be used or even recycled. Maybe the Clans could construct unique "Frankenstein" ships, made of parts taken from different warship types.

At least, given the highly sophisticated Level of Recycling the Clans possess, I think they could reuse almost all what they salvage from the naval battlefields of the WoR.

Good points!

With regards to building up your cadre of ship captains is it easier to trial for a respected captain or the actual heritage?

[Colt Ward]

Eh . . . the Ravens are the only ones who IIRC separate out the Aero bloodnames into warship specialists.  Otherwise you are also looking at the Cobras being capable . . . good luck trying to Trial either one for a respected naval commander.  For the Spirits, due to current (Arcadia DS) and past (warships for mechs) cooperation it might be possible to take a aero ristar and send them to train with/against the Ravens.

[Wotan]

If they follow old SLDF tactics you don't need finesse and skill as long as you have numbers.
Even in time when the clans hadn't knowledge about declined IS naval warfare abilities their own naval personal wasn't trained that hard. At least i'm not aware of elite or veteran rank of naval crews.
So i assume they just follow old doctrine and use whatever is available to crew their ships.