ErsatzKampfgruppe Hagen, Detachment Bravo (Updated!)

[glitterboy2098]

Desperation in physical form, the ErsatzKampfgruppe

  Faced with an invasion of Falcons and vengeance seeking Wolves, with mounting casualties, the Lyran Commonwealth found itself with insufficient combat units to maintain the expanding frontlines. In 3143 the LCAF implemented the creation of temporary frontline formations from planetary militia. This strategy was a modification of a proposal submitted to the High Command by the LCAF Strategies and Tactics Division in 3051, as a potential counter to the losses suffered during the invasion of Clan Wolf and Jade Falcon. "Plan Nibelung" was shelved after the Truce of Tukayyid, and while the plan drew some renewed interest during the Jihad, it was rejected at that time due to the civil unrest and tensions between the provinces of the Commonwealth. The modified plan created four combined arms units, designated ErsatzKampfgruppe (abbreviation eKG.) and named Wotan, Siegfried, Fafner, and Hagen, each drawing on militia forces from worlds in the Commonwealth's outer provinces. Each formation was built, on paper, along the lines of Davion Light Combat Teams, rather than the purely conventional units originally called for. The core of the unit was its reinforced battlemech battalion, paired with a full regiment of armor and another infantry. Supporting this is a full battalion of Battle Armor with attached transports, one regiment of conventional fighters, and an artillery company. In practice however the none of the constructed units matched this planned outline, As the components forces were drawn from multiple worlds in company and battalion sized lots, individual variations in structure and organization, as well as equipment, created unique mixes in each formation. Due to the rush to get these new units operational, the component forces were not mixed or reorganized on the lance and company level, leaving the existing command structures intact. Efforts to ensure coordination between such disparate forces has generated some degree of friction and reduced overall effectiveness, but prevented the need for a lengthy retraining program.

ErsatzKampfgruppe Hagen

  ErsatzKampfgruppe Hagen was assembled on Bucklands, and drew from worlds within the Bucklands Province. Unique for the ErsatzKampfgruppe units, Hagen's armor, infantry, and artillery components were over-strength by nearly 70%, in large part due to the contributions of the world of Kowloon, which maintained a larger than standard militia, as well as an extensive reserve force. Comparatively however, its battle armor components were understrength by almost 30%, due in large part to the lack of such units in the planetary militia forces in the province. ErsatzKampfgruppe Hagen was organized into smaller operational detachments, each with a mix of forces allowing the detachment to operate as an independent unit. This was intended to give the larger formation greater flexibility, and assist in normalizing cooperation between the disparate units of the formation. eKG. Hagen was assigned to the defense of Gulf Breeze, near Coventry, against an expected Jade Falcon assault.

Detachment Bravo:

   eKG. Hagen Bravo's core is the battlemech company of the Royal Bucklands Yeomanry, a unit of reservists from the Bucklands Militia. Their unit's name and traditions draw from a Military Club the majority of their members hail from, one of the many reservist associations on Bucklands that exist primarily for aging soldiers to gather and reminisce on their service and which hold events where they drive visually modifed Agromechs in simulated warfare. Far more of the Yeomanry volunteered than could be supplied with mechs, even with several members employing their family machines. As such only those with excellent records and able to meet the physical requirements were accepted. Despite this, the unit's average age is quite high, with no pilot under forty years of age and the unit average being sixty two. The Yeomanry also have a unit oddity, an oversized Battle Armor Platoon permanently attached to the company as a support and recon force.

Royal Bucklands Yeomanry
Total: 500 PV
12 Battlemechs, 5 Battlearmor

Assault Lance:
ZEU-9S Zeus (Sniper, Skill 3, 48pv)
AS7-Dr Atlas (Juggernaut, Skill 4, 55pv)   
AS7-Dr Atlas (Juggernaut, Skill 4, 55pv)   
HGN-734 Highlander (Sniper, Skill 4, 43pv)

Battle Lance:
BLR-4S Battlemaster (Juggernaut, Skill 4, 44pv)   
BLR-4S Battlemaster (Juggernaut, Skill 4, 44pv)
THG-11Eb Thug (Skirmisher, Skill 4, 41pv)
BSW-S2 Bushwacker (Sniper, Skill 4, 33pv)

Light Striker Lance:
UZL-2S Uziel (Striker, Skill 3, 38pv)
NGS-5T Nightsky (Striker, Skill 3, 35pv)
COM-2D Commando (Striker, Skill 3, 20pv)
COM-2D Commando (Striker, Skill 3, 20pv)

Battle Armor Platoon:
 Fenrir [SPL] BA   (Scout, Skill 4, 14pv)
 Fenrir [SPL] BA   (Scout, Skill 4, 14pv)
 Fenrir [SPL] BA   (Scout, Skill 4, 14pv)
 Fenrir [SPL] BA   (Scout, Skill 4, 14pv)
 Fenrir [SPL] BA   (Scout, Skill 4, 14pv)

[/s]


  The bulk of Hagen Bravo's forces is a Cavalry Squadron from the Kowloon BTM (the planetary militia), with permanently attached Air Recon Lance and Artillery Battery. Trained and equipped for small scale independent operations, the ACB's are part of Kowloon's quick response forces, the first line of ground defense in the event of pirate raids or invasion. Their self contained nature saw Kowloon volunteer several squadrons from each of the extant Cavalry Battalions to create the 7th Armored Cavalry Battalion (Expeditionary). These squadrons were divided up between eKG. Hagen's detachments. 3rd Squadron was assigned to Hagen Bravo, which has caused some tensions with the Royal Yeomanry, due to cultural clashes, particularly in regards to 'proper battlefield conduct' and unit discipline. That the Kowloonese soldiery largely do not share a common language with the mechwarriors they are meant to support has caused some difficulty as well.
  Kowloon employs an unconventional organization of six vehicle lances, giving the Cavalry Squadron roughly half again as many armored vehicles as is standard for Lyran militia forces. Kowloon's cavalry squadrons are primarily equipped with the Rùa Infantry Fighting Vehicle, a Kowloon built armored vehicle derived from the Scorpion Light Tank. The Rùa uses locally produced components for all save the turret mounted medium lasers, which are common Defiance B3M models imported from offworld. The vehicle has been designed to make use of simplified and easily swapped components for ease of maintenance. This however has made the design slow to catch on outside Kowloon, due to the incompatibilities of these components with other standard militia vehicles. The 7th ACB has stockpiled a sizable store of spare parts, and Kowloon has arranged for regular supply runs to supply the 7th ACB and the other Kowloon units in eKG. Hagen.
  On paper, the 3rd Squadron is a mechanized formation, with each armored vehicle carrying one Kowloon squad of 9 foot infantry. In practice however, the 3rd Squadron's infantry platoons prefer to deploy independently, making use of light motor vehicles, often acquired from local sources. This frees the armor Lances to engage freely and allows the Squadron to cover more ground on the advance. The Infantry have been supplied with heavy body armor by the Lyran Quartermaster Corps, in hopes of increasing their survival rates in combat, but they have chosen to retain their armament of Kowloon produced Auto-Rifles and Rocket Propelled Grenades.

20th Squadron, 7th Armored Cavalry Battalion (Expeditionary), Kowloon BTM.

[399 PV Total
18 Tanks, 6 VTOL's, 12 infantry Platoons.

Troop 1:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)

Troop 2:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)

Troop 3:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Ambusher, Skill 4, 11pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 5, 7pv)

Air Recon One:
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)
H-7A Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 15pv)

Artillery Battery One:
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)

Artillery Battery Two:
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 4, 11pv)

The 20th Squadron has one dropship assigned to it, a heavily modified civilian transport classified as a Mule (Expeditionary), the MS Azubah, one of several such vessels modified to carry the 7th Armored Battalion and the other Kowloon Expeditionary units assigned to the ErsatzKampfgruppe.

The 20th Squadron has one dropship assigned to it, a heavily modified civilian transport classified as a Mule (Expeditionary), the MS Azubah, one of several such vessels modified to carry the 7th Armored Battalion and the other Kowloon Expeditionary units assigned to the ErsatzKampfgruppe.

-=[To Be Expanded As I Complete Writing It]=-

Armor and Infantry sections are coming, i just need to finish writing them up. and i don't want to post the Alpha Strike force list until I have at least the basic fluff written up.

I would like to add pilot names to the mechwarriors and the commanders of the BA units, if anyone wants to suggest some names. I picked Bucklands as the source of this company for two reasons. First, because it is fluffed (according to Sarna.net) as a place that produces a lot of soldiers, and thus has a lot of veterans and reservists on world who had done their terms and went home. i also picked it because its name suggested the potential for some fun cultural friction with the armor and infantry component of this 1000pv force.. "Buckland" being a location name that comes from the Devonshire area of England, part of that peninsula south of Wales. Where 'buckland' is a quite common location name. the Flag of the planet is also remarkably british in feel, IMO. so i gave the unit a name inspired by British Volunteer Regiments from prior to WW1. The idea of them being part of a Veterans Fraternal Order seemed like a logical extension. The addition of a reenactment type element was inspired by the description on Sarna.net about how the farmers of Bucklands use Agromechs to settle disputes. It seemed to me that a culture that employed Agromechs instead of pistols or swords for Duels between aggrieved parties would also be likely to use them for other sorts of activities as well, especially if those activities can be claimed as training for what passes as the militia. the fact the Bucklands militia was described as a sort of social club using industrialmechs played a factor. i just figured it was many social clubs with distinct traditions rather than just one giant one.
--------------------
Edit 2: Kowloon forces fluff is up.
footnote [1] = this gives the resulting vehicles the Quirks "Easy to Maintain" and "Non-standard Parts". so they are easier to repair.. but harder to find parts for to do those repairs. sort of a wash really, unless you are on Kowloon itself.

[DOC_Agren]

Interesting planet choice, liking the fluff so far
Are the battlearmor also old crews?

[glitterboy2098]

Interesting planet choice, liking the fluff so far
Are the battlearmor also old crews?

that was the idea. i figure that the world obviously would produce more than just mechwarriors. if you do the math, pretty much every person in that unit would have been born during or after the jihad, and would have served after it, so having older BA troops fits.

[mikecj]

TAG.

Interesting premise... and very NOT Dad's Army.   :thumbsup:

[glitterboy2098]

the other 40% of the 1000pv force is now up. tried to stay as close to Cannonshop's version of kowloon while bringing their hardware a little more in line with the standard BT universe. given that the Goblin is IS general, but is produced on the otherside of the inner sphere, i figured Kowloon cobbling together their own version would be reasonable.. plus it emulated cannonshop's version without going all the way to 65 ton Patton based stuff. since i'm using Microarmor Mk.II Merkava miniatures for these, it also helps explain the visual differences. :)

given Kowloon's cultural origins, i figured using the logo for the ARVN's 20th Armored Cavalry Squadron would be in character for them. the 6 vehicle lances are based off of the Ngoverse 2.0 stories, where the Kowloon Militia got training from the comguards. one of the Comguard officers (who later turned out to be a dirty Wobbie, funnily enough) remarked that Kowloon ought to adopt comguard style organization, and while i don't know if that happened in the stories, i thought it was a neat idea so i adopted it. given the FWL likes to stick their light and medium tanks into 6 vehicle lances, it wouldn't be too weird of an idea even if this version didn't have comguard influence.

[Elmoth]

So you nare using the Rua to increase the tank complement of the force. Not a bad idea at all. 

Love the oldie pilots of the mech batallion! :)

[DOC_Agren]

Are the Mechanized Field Artillery, are these Towed Thumpers?
I like your fluff for the Rùa Tank Destroyer, very Kowloonese like.

Not all into Alpha Strike Rules, so can't make comments on that part.

I like the force structure I am seeing, I do think think C&C with this force is going to interesting with a lack of common language and culture and age, as I expect the Kowloon force to be much younger the Buckland force.

[glitterboy2098]

So you nare using the Rua to increase the tank complement of the force. Not a bad idea at all. 

more or less. really just as an excuse as to how a tank manufactured in two places (New Syrtis and Leximon) would be present in such large numbers on a world on the lyran periphery border, 800+ lightyears away. i've often felt that the TRO3026 vehicles ought to have a lot of copycats and knockoffs being made. especially in the post helm core periods when succession wars tech becomes way easier to build.

Are the Mechanized Field Artillery, are these Towed Thumpers?

Yep. towed by wheeled mechanized infantry.

I like the force structure I am seeing, I do think think C&C with this force is going to interesting with a lack of common language and culture and age, as I expect the Kowloon force to be much younger the Buckland force.

yeah, the Kowloon unit would have a more conventional age range.. late teens through 30's

[glitterboy2098]

any suggestions for what kind of Dropship(s) this detachment would have? and how many techs and other support staff it likely would have on hand? (for that matter.. support vehicles?)

[DOC_Agren]

My suggestion is a modified Seeker and Union
   and add in a 2 pair of Sabre Fighters or Slayer Fighters

Or if you want to go for an all in 1 basket. a Fortress but with no Aerospace Assets but gives a Lon Tom for fire support

[Dave Talley]

My suggestion is a modified Seeker and Union
   and add in a 2 pair of Sabre Fighters or Slayer Fighters

Or if you want to go for an all in 1 basket. a Fortress but with no Aerospace Assets but gives a Lon Tom for fire support

Seeker plus Union and the fighters,
2 in union, did you take out the fighter space for the BA?
2 in seeker if modded that way,
and add a kowloon coast guard leopard and 6 fighters,
if you bring the leopard you could drop the seeker mod, you need the space,
as it is you may need another ship to transport the infantry

[Daryk]

As an ad hoc formation, I'd think a Mule and at best a Union (if not just a second Mule).

[glitterboy2098]

I looked into a cargo carrier for the Kowloon portion, based partly off the Never Coming Home story with its improvised troopships, but the rule of thumb stuff for the mass of life support supplies for passengers as cargo end up outmassing the formation by several times, even for relatively short trips. And that was without knowing what the support staff numbers might be.  :(

I had originally hoped to stick them in a Trojan for the surprise value of detecting two 'Unions' only for one to disgorge a battalion of tanks and infantry.

[Dave Talley]

a mule and union/trojan would work, the mule can be preconfigured to handle the life support for a large amount of people
if the mech force didnt get assigned a aero unit,
I could see a loonie CG conventional squadron being packed in

[DOC_Agren]

I like the Union and Trojan tag team, because it would look like 2 Unions

If you don't get a Aerospace unit from Buckland force, then assign the 2 Kowloon Coast Guard Fighters either 2 Sabres or 2 Slayers to the Union.

Then modify the Trojan doing away the 2 small craft bays and turn it into Armored Landing Craft. 

[Daryk]

I solved the cargo bay consumable consumption rate by assuming you could install "bay' quality quarters with an extra half CONEX box of air recycling, with two out of every four full containers being water recycling (i.e., one for the heads, and one for the "processing"). So basically, 2.5 CONEX boxes of "life support" for every 2 squads (assuming you're willing to cram 8 PAX into a 20' (~6 meter) container.  That's two awfully cramped 4-person bunkrooms per TEU without hot racking).  I personally have experienced quarters that were 2 PAX per TEU, and it wasn't bad.  Having the racks turned into bunk beds and doubled wouldn't have been impossible (I've survived worse), but would wear on people pretty quickly.  The most compact berthing I've seen was enlisted berthing on a WWII era minesweeper.  That was quadruple-stacked racks (canvas supporting very thin mattresses) with communal heads.  If I remember right, that ship still had a trough urinal.  Those things are long gone in modern berthing compartments.

[glitterboy2098]

I like the Union and Trojan tag team, because it would look like 2 Unions

If you don't get a Aerospace unit from Buckland force, then assign the 2 Kowloon Coast Guard Fighters either 2 Sabres or 2 Slayers to the Union.

Then modify the Trojan doing away the 2 small craft bays and turn it into Armored Landing Craft.

how easily can you refit a dropship to be a vehicle and infantry transport? part of the fluff on this is that these formations were thrown together relatively quickly, so things like custom refit naval units might be a bit against fluff.

edit: playing around in MML, you might be able to fit the whole group into a Gazelle (Upgrade) by swapping the heavy Vehicle bays for additional Light Vehicles bays and some infantry bays. if i knew how many support staff the unit would need, so i can work out manpower. (and thus how many extra quarters would be required.)

alternately i could do like i did with the Goblin tanks and claim a third party product.. a Danais or Trojan line already altered for use as cut-rate troop carrier. (surely there would be a market for those in the IS, given the relative lack of official designs for the job)

I solved the cargo bay consumable consumption rate by assuming you could install "bay' quality quarters with an extra half CONEX box of air recycling, with two out of every four full containers being water recycling (i.e., one for the heads, and one for the "processing"). So basically, 2.5 CONEX boxes of "life support" for every 2 squads (assuming you're willing to cram 8 PAX into a 20' (~6 meter) container.  That's two awfully cramped 4-person bunkrooms per TEU without hot racking).  I personally have experienced quarters that were 2 PAX per TEU, and it wasn't bad.  Having the racks turned into bunk beds and doubled wouldn't have been impossible (I've survived worse), but would wear on people pretty quickly.  The most compact berthing I've seen was enlisted berthing on a WWII era minesweeper.  That was quadruple-stacked racks (canvas supporting very thin mattresses) with communal heads.  If I remember right, that ship still had a trough urinal.  Those things are long gone in modern berthing compartments.

something worth considering perhaps. call it Steerage level quarters? although those would be 5 tons each person.

[Daryk]

No, not steerage quality... bay quality.  There's a significant difference between the two with regard to consumption rate.

[Elmoth]

When cramping people there, considering that they will be inside for 2 weeks on each inbound trip and 2 weeks on each outbound trip at the minimum, since that is assuming a single jump. If multiple jumps are implied, multiply by a number of weeks. I would prefer somewhat better quarters if I could.

If time is at a premium go for it though :) however, I would expect some people to have a really rough trip and be somewhat unfit for duty at destination for some time afterwards.

[DOC_Agren]

how easily can you refit a dropship to be a vehicle and infantry transport? part of the fluff on this is that these formations were thrown together relatively quickly, so things like custom refit naval units might be a bit against fluff.

alternately i could do like i did with the Goblin tanks and claim a third party product.. a Danais or Trojan line already altered for use as cut-rate troop carrier. (surely there would be a market for those in the IS, given the relative lack of official designs for the job)
something worth considering perhaps. call it Steerage level quarters? although those would be 5 tons each person.

That was my thought fluff the Trojan mod as Landing Assault Ship(possible 1 way), given the story you mentioned I would think Inf Bays for everyone.  It also explains the reasoning why it has limited firepower compared to the Union.

[glitterboy2098]

whatever way they are accommodated, if i want to use MML to design a modified transport for them, it would help to know how mnay techs, medical staff, etc each unit is liable to have. because i can calculate the number of people crewing vehicles and such, but the support staff i've never been good at figuring out. whats the general rule of thumb for such stuff?

[Dave Talley]

one of the merc handbooks listed it out,  no idea which one though
probably 3055?

there are also several floating around here in the fanfic section
with detailed listings of personnell needed

[Daryk]

Campaign Operations (pages 20-21) has the latest requirements.  Figure 1 Tech and 6 AsTechs per 'mech, combat vehicle and infantry company (4 platoons), then add 10% of the number of personnel so far calculated (combatants and tech support), and that's how many "admin" you need.  This number includes medical support, which comes in teams of 5 (1 doctor and four medics).  If that's too many for you, you can "double tap" some of the combatants to do a portion of the tech or admin duties.

[glitterboy2098]

update: budget issues have forced a possible switch in mini's options for the kowloon force, revised alternate TO&E is under work. the end result will be much more infantry focused, due to the switch to a lower PV tank model (since the available mini's aren't merkava style apc-tank hybrids)

edit: alternate TO&E for the 20th Squadron, 7th Armored Cavalry, Kowloon BTM

400 PV Total
18 Tanks, 6 VTOL's, 16 infantry Platoons.

Squadron 1 (Armor):
Section 1:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv) (counts as Scorpion Light Tank (Standard) )
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Section 2:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Section 3:
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)
Rùa Tank Destroyer (Brawler, Skill 4, 11pv)

Squadron 2 (Infantry):
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)

Squadron 3 (Infantry):
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)
Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoon (Ambusher, Skill 4, 6pv)

Air Recon Detachment:
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)
H-7 Warrior Attack Helicopter (Scout, Skill 4, 13pv)

Artillery Battery Detachment:
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 3, 13pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 3, 13pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 3, 13pv)
Mechanized Field Artillery (Missile Boat, Skill 3, 13pv)

as mentioned, this has about twice the infantry (since the cheaper tanks freed up more points. i also boosted the skills of the tanks (otherwise i could probably have stuck even more infantry or a 4th unit of tanks.. but i preferred boosting the skills. the big change fluff wise will be to remove the references to the Goblin tank and have the Rùa become a license build of the Quikcell Scorpion, and rework the infantry full to make them motorized by intent rather than improvisation.

i'll leave this up as an alternate.. if i can salvage that lot of off-brand merkava's i can easily do either version, if i have to buy new figures i'll do whichever i can afford.

[DOC_Agren]

thoughts for moving those Motorized Heavy Infantry Platoons in a licenced Quikcell Heavy Tracked APC which can use the same engine as Rùa Tank Destroyer.

[glitterboy2098]

i'd considered using foot infantry with APCs, but it just seems to me that you get better capability from the motor infantry for the points. you are paying twice as much (6+5pv for fedcom rifle foot infantry + APC vs 6pv for motorized heavy rifle)  for only a few extra inches of movement. the APC in theory gives a few points of protection to the infantry, but the infantry is actually tougher in AS (4A 1S infantry vs 2A 1S APC) and if the APC is destroyed with the infantry inside, the infantry might not survive the APC's destruction, and certainly aren't going to be mobile enough to contribute to the battle from then on, making them a mission kill.

plus thematically the idea of the infantry tooling around in trucks or humvee equivalents (depending on which version of the fluff gets used) has something of an appeal for a out of the way world's militia.

[glitterboy2098]

found some figures that'll suit the original idea pretty well. not quite what i had in mind but the price was right on the bay of E. got 19 BMP-1 figures made by either CinC or GHQ (obsolete version) (they're pretty much the same thing, i think CinC bought the old GHQ molds), which while having a bit smaller turret than i'd originally wanted, should work fine for this. i can always claim it is using a unmanned turret after all.

[Daryk]

I suppose it depends on what scale you're playing.  APCs with embarked foot infantry work best at TW scale.

[EAGLE 7]

GlitterBoy,
    I like this setup you have created. I really like the 6 Vehicle Plt., I have heard arguments for it in real life.   2 -3 Vic section s offer more flexibility during attack or withdraw. If you loose 1 vic from a section, the other two can alternating between covering/support fire and bounding movement.
    The theory was for IFVs like a Bradley which do not carry armor to take large hits like a tank, sorta like the Vics you created for your loonies.

[EAGLE 7]

I solved the cargo bay consumable consumption rate by assuming you could install "bay' quality quarters with an extra half CONEX box of air recycling, with two out of every four full containers being water recycling (i.e., one for the heads, and one for the "processing"). So basically, 2.5 CONEX boxes of "life support" for every 2 squads (assuming you're willing to cram 8 PAX into a 20' (~6 meter) container.  That's two awfully cramped 4-person bunkrooms per TEU without hot racking).  I personally have experienced quarters that were 2 PAX per TEU, and it wasn't bad.  Having the racks turned into bunk beds and doubled wouldn't have been impossible (I've survived worse), but would wear on people pretty quickly.  The most compact berthing I've seen was enlisted berthing on a WWII era minesweeper.  That was quadruple-stacked racks (canvas supporting very thin mattresses) with communal heads.  If I remember right, that ship still had a trough urinal.  Those things are long gone in modern berthing compartments.

Daryk,

  Something I call "hotel California "
9 connex like cargo containers,  for a Plt. Each 5tons.
4 for 1 squad each, 3 for water, water recycling,  communally shared latrines,  2 containers for 1 month of sustainment perishables.
  Stacked 3/3/3, long trip add 2 containers per month. Add another container to keep multiple of three for margins of error on trip length.
   Not designed for long term use, can be unassembled and deployed on planet as deployment housing.
    "Hotel California TM dose not recommend troops to be armed while occupying Hotel California TM products if occupation of Hotel California TM products includes use of Meal Ready to Eat, broccoli burritos,  chili,  or cabbage.
    Hotel California reminds you sedatives are an option".

   36 Hotel California containers to move a 4 Plt company add 4 more for perishables as a margin of error. 200 tons to move 4 platoons 1 month distance in a cargo hold of a dropship with a 2 week buffer to keep them alive.

[snakespinner]

And here I thought a private suite at the Hilton was doing it tough. ::) ;)

[Daryk]

EAGLE 7:
Cool... I stored food separately, so the two containers you put toward "perishables" are just one more water and air recycling for me.  The way I stacked them was four living quarters with a half TEU air recycler on top, then two heads and two water recycling units with air recycling on top.  In practice (aboard a Manatee), I ended up with 8 living quarters stacks to 3 "water" stacks (24 toilets, 12 sinks and 6 showers for up to 256 people; I put an extra half unit of air recycling on top of a pure cargo stack to round that out to 6 TEU of that).

[EAGLE 7]

Daryk,

Are you container units airtight if the ship depressurized?
I picture each platoon 9pack as a sealed unit with tunnel connections to each adjacent pack Platoon stack or an airlock unit.
     While not ment for space use , it offers a little protection to the infantry/support troops using the "Hotel California" container's vs. A cargo breach killing everyone.
     Normal power would be for use of Dropship power, but each paired perishables unit uses a fuel cell to provide 24 hours minimum air recycling.
      JUNE 3005: Mule Dropship "Rosemary's Baby"

   "In my mind I see the infantry squad floating around the cargo bay in zero G to escape Hotel California "
After the second episode of AWOL infantry in our ship the Capt had us Poly link fencing cages around the Airlocks to keep us from having to recover dutchmen infantry in our cargo bay, after two infantry men refused to go back to their container units. The two infantrymen had to be stunned repeatedly after injuring 4 ships crew.
   Now I understand why the infantry are not allowed weapons, they are ready to mutiny. We have had several deaths even without weapons.
   A long term NCO killed his bunk mate with bootlaces for snoring 2 months into the trip. We have to post 3 crewmembers at the poly fence gate with stunners, and shot guns.
    I overheard the Captain mention aligning the cargo bay door towards the enemy and just opening the bay door to limit the danger to the crew.  The Captain said it as a joke, I think but none laughed on the bridge.

   

[glitterboy2098]

i was going to comment about the accommodations issue.. then it hit me that i have 6 squads of troop space on the IFV's, but 8 squads of troops assigned to them.

oops.

i think i'm just going to fudge that and assume the physical space is just big enough for 10 guys (instead of just 7) and the IFV's usually run slightly overmass from the extra 2-3 troops per vehicle (which would certainly be an incentive for the infantry to find alternative transport, especially after being issued bulkier body armor)

as far as accommodations go, i'd prefer that they have at least some effort towards housing the troops in something other than sleeping bags and hammocks, but still something thrown together quick for a barracks. i'm still working on it.

[Daryk]

Accommodations should be sized for 10 per squad, as that's the Taurian standard (and in the rules that way; plus, of you look at the current weight per trooper, 10 foot troops do fit into a ton).  Only having 7 means just a little more room for everyone.

EAGLE 7:
No, I use unpressurized containers, as I'm using the base tonnage for bay quarters (which would rely on the ship for air tight integrity).  I could see going your way by adding environmental sealing for another 10% of the weight or so.  The trick is that would mean airlocks either by container, or linking them internally to one container with an air lock.

Your GM has a sadistic streak if he's inflicting that many mutinous acts on you.  You're not pirates are you?  That's about the only situation where I could see discipline breaking down that much.

[glitterboy2098]

well i was hoping for the feel of the libertyship like "transport ship ##" from Cannonshop's Never Coming Home, which the entire ErsatzKampfgruppe concept is derived from, only with more compatibility with the standard BT setting* (rather than Cannonshop's heavily 'houseruled' version.) so i might use the 'bays only' approach rather than the "nothing" of the story. that's why i'm going with a modified cargo dropper rather than a fully scratch built.

*in short, as mentioned in the OP: Kowloon is much less munchy though still way more organized than the typical lyran frontier world, and i moved the improvised battlegroup idea to the dark age as a response to the chaos hitting the lyran commonwealth due to the mix of blackout, economic crunch, wolf empire assaults, and the falcon invasion, rather than setting it in the Jihad (as the official jihad was less brutal than cannoshop's version.. slightly.)

[Daryk]

Bay quality quarters would absolutely qualify as "Liberty Ship" transport in my book.  Anything better would be actual Steerage quality at a minimum.  "Camping in the cargo hold" per StratOps is the next step down.

[Cannonshop]

well i was hoping for the feel of the libertyship like "transport ship ##" from Cannonshop's Never Coming Home, which the entire ErsatzKampfgruppe concept is derived from, only with more compatibility with the standard BT setting* (rather than Cannonshop's heavily 'houseruled' version.) so i might use the 'bays only' approach rather than the "nothing" of the story. that's why i'm going with a modified cargo dropper rather than a fully scratch built.

*in short, as mentioned in the OP: Kowloon is much less munchy though still way more organized than the typical lyran frontier world, and i moved the improvised battlegroup idea to the dark age as a response to the chaos hitting the lyran commonwealth due to the mix of blackout, economic crunch, wolf empire assaults, and the falcon invasion, rather than setting it in the Jihad (as the official jihad was less brutal than cannoshop's version.. slightly.)

in general, Bay accomodations will work, after all, we don't have rules for disposable dropships.

[glitterboy2098]

updated the lists.. they now use a pair of 500pv forces, so each of them are suited as "grab and go" forces (well, the Yeomanry is. the Loonies might have opponent emotional balance issues in a pick-up game)

the Yeomanry had to shed a hundred points, so most of their skill levels took a hit and i had to downgrade their mechs some. plus swapped out a victor and banshee for a Bushwacker and Thug. not sure if that is a good swap overall but it did save some points. i also had to downgrade the Fenrir armor to a cheaper weapons loadout. the skill level thing i guess you can chalk up to them being old soldiers and somewhat out of practice in real mech combat, rather than simulated lasertag stuff.

the Loonie's on the otherhand.. oh boy. with another hundred points to work with their tankers got better skills, and their infantry brought up to a level of skill that fits the stories. (for all that is actually worth in AS.  xp )
big change? the Warrior VTOL's got switched to -7A models.. mostly to better fit the models i have for them. (plus the extra long range damage is nice)
they also gained a second artillery battery ( >:D) and a trio of Ferret VTOL's to use as additional spotters.

i think this version definitely fits the Kowloon mindset a little better.

i also tweaked the fluff of the Rùa Tank Destroyer.. leaving it as a full Kowloon invention rather than a modified vedette. partly because i would a better source of Minis (the Brigade Models Neo-Soviet Vombat Tank-APC.)


and i've added a dropship.. the Trojan (expeditionary). which is a prime example of how BT cargo bays might well be made of hammerspace..

taking name suggestions for both the Union assigned to the Yeomanry (which does not have to fit their motif) and for the modified Trojan (which would probably be in Kowloon style Vietnamese)

[Daryk]

And the Artillery and Spotters have better gunnery!  >:D

[Cannonshop]

updated the lists.. they now use a pair of 500pv forces, so each of them are suited as "grab and go" forces (well, the Yeomanry is. the Loonies might have opponent emotional balance issues in a pick-up game)

the Yeomanry had to shed a hundred points, so most of their skill levels took a hit and i had to downgrade their mechs some. plus swapped out a victor and banshee for a Bushwacker and Thug. not sure if that is a good swap overall but it did save some points. i also had to downgrade the Fenrir armor to a cheaper weapons loadout. the skill level thing i guess you can chalk up to them being old soldiers and somewhat out of practice in real mech combat, rather than simulated lasertag stuff.

the Loonie's on the otherhand.. oh boy. with another hundred points to work with their tankers got better skills, and their infantry brought up to a level of skill that fits the stories. (for all that is actually worth in AS.  xp )
big change? the Warrior VTOL's got switched to -7A models.. mostly to better fit the models i have for them. (plus the extra long range damage is nice)
they also gained a second artillery battery ( >:D) and a trio of Ferret VTOL's to use as additional spotters.

i think this version definitely fits the Kowloon mindset a little better.

i also tweaked the fluff of the Rùa Tank Destroyer.. leaving it as a full Kowloon invention rather than a modified vedette. partly because i would a better source of Minis (the Brigade Models Neo-Soviet Vombat Tank-APC.)


and i've added a dropship.. the Trojan (expeditionary). which is a prime example of how BT cargo bays might well be made of hammerspace..

taking name suggestions for both the Union assigned to the Yeomanry (which does not have to fit their motif) and for the modified Trojan (which would probably be in Kowloon style Vietnamese)

Kowloonese treat dropships like boats-they give them a number, rather than a name most of the time, with 'names' being informally applied by the crew, so there's no 'standard' for how they name dropships (unlike their treatment of surface watercraft or jump-capable vessels, both of which have traditional naming structures.)

It's likely that the Ersatzkampfgruppen has a Jumpship from the Kowloon yards 'on loan' to provide for that aspect of logistics-these would typically be monkey-copy merchant, invader, or tramp class vessels with the prefix "MS" followed by a feminine first name in any of fifty different languages, but the most common would be biblically derived, old testament feminine names. 

Full maintenance naming then, would be something akin to "MS Sarah" for the jumpship, with the dropship being "Sarah one" for the modded Trojan class, and the Bucklands dropship named according to LCAF/Bucklands local traditions.

If you're really going to reach deep into Kowlooniverse stuff, then you should account for the fighters that come with the jumpship, because lizzie doesn't lend troops without air support, and that air support is usually spelled "SB-27" in twelve packs.

Typical designation for a fighter unit assigned to something like this, would be "LCN Reserve squadron/Coast Guard" on the paperwork header, with the fighters being prefixed "VFA-(insert squadron number)"  followed by individual tail-numbers and the use of decorative nose-art that usually offends the eyes of LCAF regulars.

[glitterboy2098]

out of curiosity, if i did want to add some SB-27's to the force (at 19pv each base), what would you suggest i drop? skill levels on the tanks? get rid of some of the vehicles?

i probably couldn't fit more than two fighters, without majorly reworking it, would those even be worth adding?

[Daryk]

Half the VTOLs for a pair of Sabres?

[Cannonshop]

out of curiosity, if i did want to add some SB-27's to the force (at 19pv each base), what would you suggest i drop? skill levels on the tanks? get rid of some of the vehicles?

i probably couldn't fit more than two fighters, without majorly reworking it, would those even be worth adding?

Generally speaking, you can get away without them entirely provided you stick to a total ground-game structure and assume air-support is irrelevant.

But...

You can also maybe (depending on how you're running your campaign) structure them as a 'reserve' and then mix/match as needed and by mission.  Remember that under Kowloon's local doctrine, Aerospace falls under the Coast Guard, and while they train in mixed air/land battle, the funding and command chain is kept administratively separated.  For an EKG unit, it could well be that the Archon and the brigtht-boys at Mount Asgard don't want to have that imbalance in power for what amounts to an emergency formation.  (imbalance in local power-having one world contributing the bulk of both conventional AND aerospace might be seen as risky for what amounts to a unit under National colors.)

Keep in mind, the Lyran Commonwealth is a FEUDAL state, and that kind of imbalance might threaten the established order too much.  So there's actually a strong story-reason not to include them at all.

But if you're GOING to include them, losing a couple of actual tanks might be the way to go in order to get a wing-pair on the board, alternately, only bringing it out against higher-value opponents can buy you the slack to include them in BV matched games-say, for example, fighting Clan opponents at numerical parity or a bv disadvantage.  (those are hard fights to WIN, but that's kind of the point.)

[glitterboy2098]

mostly thinking from a points value standpoint. i could probably fit two if i drop the Ferrets and downgrade the tanks to skill 5.

[glitterboy2098]

decided to leave out the fighters, but may drop the ferrets anyway. not sure if they really bring enough just acting as spotting, given the warriors and infantry both can do that role.

in other news, i put in an order from Brigade Models for 18 neo-soviet BMP-BM APC's to represent the Rùa's. (plus a quartet of the Bars MBT's to use as Po's for the update to my Capellans force(s). )



still gotta pick up some field guns and a pack of infantry. (and the VTOL's to be the ferrets, if i decide to go that route)

[glitterboy2098]

so heads up, i hopefully will be revamping this a little in a future. i've identified a better canon BT vehicle to use for the Rua that more closely matches the miniatures i bought for them (a little less durability but also lower PV), and i'll be tweaking both units to try and shrink them down to about 400pv each. and i might be creating a 200pv supplemental force to add in for larger games instead. (possibly with some aerospace). and suggestions for a world they could come from? would rather not double up on kowloon, as cool as it would be to have some of the coastguard.

i'd also like to add some "history" of eKG Hagen to bring them up to at least the dropping of the fortress walls, but i'm not really sure what i can include since i'm still not very familiar with the ins and outs of all that has been going on. so taking suggestions there.

[DOC_Agren]

So the extra force, what about from Khartoum, it a world that a blank slate so you could play with it as you wish.  Here a idea for a force The Khartoum Kavaliers?

they could provide a limited aerospace assets in the form of Mustangs (re badged Sabres) and 2 Owl III or 2 Kaiseradler conventional aircraft, and what about ground support of either Hunters or LRM Carriers and AC2 Carrier for Airdefense if there enough points?

So what is new vehicle that you are using for Rua?

[glitterboy2098]

So what is new vehicle that you are using for Rua?

the medium laser scorpion. it has the twin laser turret matching the mini, and it has a 1 ton cargo/infantry bay. in AS the stats are similar to the goblin, it's a little less durable (at 2A/2S instead of 4A/3S) but actually has a bit heavier short range firepower. it's also cheaper.

i was able to fit the Kowloon force into 400pv easily enough, mostly by dropping the Ferrets and compromising on the skills a little, but i'm still having issues fitting the mech force into it. probably going to have to downgrade the weight of the mechs a little.

[DOC_Agren]

Interesting choice and I like it...  I thought you might have gone with a Galleon-102 or a modified version of it

[glitterboy2098]

i've been trying to stick to canon designs for this, in part because until recently there wasn't an easy way to get alpha strike stats for custom designs. (megamek can now do it but it's still a little rough.)

updated the first post with the new kowloon version. the Buckland unit i just put a strike through on because getting them to shed some weight and fit into 400pv has been tricky. might just have to downgrade to two lances of mechs, and shuffle the third lance over to the 200pv supplement force, or something.

[ANS Kamas P81]

https://www.mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm

Mordel.net automatically calculates (and breaks down the calculations) for Alpha Strike.  It takes a little getting used to how it works but it's a good design program, and even lets you download and print record sheets or alpha strike cards.