Author Topic: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race  (Read 190277 times)

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #120 on: 11 June 2018, 12:18:16 »
How many are you looking for?
Ive got 2-3 each for FWL, LC, and CC.

 FedSuns is hard - all their listed yards are tied to modern production, and the famous McKenna yards arent built yet.

Ill see if I can find anything for the Taurians and Marians as well.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #121 on: 11 June 2018, 12:25:51 »
How many are you looking for?
Ive got 2-3 each for FWL, LC, and CC.

 FedSuns is hard - all their listed yards are tied to modern production, and the famous McKenna yards arent built yet.

Ill see if I can find anything for the Taurians and Marians as well.

2-3 is fine, as long as each of the two still-functional predecessor states to the CC(i.e., the Capellan Commonality and the Sarna Supremacy) has at least one. See this map.

Re the FedSuns, I'll work on that. I'll go for era-appropriate shipyards if I can find them, but if the data isn't available, I'll just pick important planets to use instead. Probably New Avalon, Robinson, and New Syrtis, since they're the regional capitals.

Also, don't worry about the Taurians and the Marians - they're each basically single-system polities at this point, it's obvious where their yards will be.

Edit: Researching the FS shipyards, there's no mention of when most of them started, but Kathil/Delevan/Layover/Panpour were producing >90% of the heavy naval assets of the FedSuns before Galax opened up, so I'll assume that small seeds of those manufacturing lines exist right now. Panpour is part of the UHC for the time being, and Kathil is described as being unimportant until the Reunification War, so I'll say that Delevan(near the capital) and Layover(close to the DC/TH borders) are the major yards. New Syrtis(near the CC/Taurian borders) produces JumpShips and is remarked to be a major mining world, so we'll give it a small yard. 
« Last Edit: 11 June 2018, 12:46:09 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #122 on: 11 June 2018, 12:27:47 »
Amusingly, the LC has no yards over either Tharkad or Hesperus...

Maybe Ill build up superyards over Hesperus.  Might as well put all the eggs in the universes largest basket, right?  What could -possibly- go wrong... right?

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #123 on: 11 June 2018, 13:17:14 »
Possibilities Below:

Lyran Commonwealth Shipyards

Tamar:  Bolson-Tamar Shipyards.  Tharkad Class of 900Kt Built in 2690
New Kyoto:  Bolson Shipyards.  Mako Class of 200Kt built in 2375.
Alarion:  Port Sydney Naval Yards (Ioto Galactic Enterpirses/Bowie Industries).  Commonwealth Class of 700K built in 2375.


Free Worlds League Shipyards

Loyalty:  SelaSys Yards.  League Class of 500Kt built in 2368
Atreus:  Imstar Yards:  Productive post clan invasion, but may have been in service in 2350.
Clipperton:  Irian Technologies.  Productive post clan invasion, may have been in service in 2350.  Irian Technologies is old and big.
Irian:  As Clipperton, above.  Also home of Irian Technologies.

Capellan Commonality

Capella:  Dehli Warships.  Soyal Class of 1.5Mt built in 2731

Sarna Supremacy

No listed worlds with yards.  Likely candidates for a yard include
Axton:  Home of Wangker Aerospace
Sarna:  Capital.  Future location of Tengo Aerospace (2750).  "Dense Population"  "Heavily Industrialzed Continents"

Duchy of Liao

The Du Shi Wang (2380, 900kt) lists as being built in the Duchy of Liao.  No worlds of the Duchy are listed as major manufacturers.  Candidates below:

Aldebaran:  "Jumpship Drydock" in system.
Genoa:  "Minor Economic Powerhouse"
Liao:  Likely ruled out.  Despite being the capital, Liao is primarily agricultural - as is most of the Duchy.

Starfox1701

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #124 on: 11 June 2018, 20:25:10 »
Im not sure there are any real yards anywhere in the inner sphere other than maybe the FWL. Remember. There historically there where no major naval engagements before the Reunifacation Wars and no one even had a warship besides the Terrans for another 20 years. The real golden age of naval battles ran from the Aramis coup to the end of the 1st Succession War.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #125 on: 11 June 2018, 20:56:20 »
Given that I see at least two yards above with known production in 2375 (and this list is complied in a brief Sarna search), I do not think it does meaningful violence to our knowledge of IS history to allow production starting for a ‘game turn’ of 2350-2360.  While houses may have waited another decade or two historically, I dont find it necessary to believe that they had no choice - and as soon as you give players any agency in a historical setting, you are off into AU territory in any event.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #126 on: 11 June 2018, 23:46:39 »
Thanks for that research, Marcus. So, here's our starting shipyards and incomes.

Player Nations

Lyran Commonwealth: Budget $80B. Shipyards 3/3 Alarion, 3/1 New Kyoto, 1 Tamar, 1 Gibbs

Free Worlds League: Budget $100B. Shipyards 3/1 Atreus, 3/1 Irian, 3/1 Loyalty

Draconis Combine: Budget $100B. Shipyards 3/1/1 Luthien, 3/1 New Samarkand, 1 Midway.

Taurian Concordat: Budget $10B. Shipyard 1 Taurus.

Marian Hegemony: Budget $10B. Shipyard 1 Alphard.

NPC Nations

Terran Hegemony: Budget $750B. Shipyards 6/44/333/2222/11111 Terra, 4/2/1/1 Keid, 3/1 Thorin, 3/1 Terra Firma, 3/1 New Earth, 3/1 Yorii, 3/1 Graham IV

Federated Suns: Budget $90B. Shipyards 3/1 Delevan, 3/1 Layover, 1 New Syrtis.
United Hindu Collective: Budget $20B. Shipyard 3/1 Panpour.

Capellan Commonality: Budget $25B. Shipyard 2/1 Capella.
Sarna Supremacy: Budget $25B. Shipyard 2/1 Sarna.
Duchy of Liao: Budget $15B. Shipyard 2/1 Aldebaran.
Sian Commonwealth: Budget $10B. No yards.
St. Ives Mercantile League: Budget $10B. No yards.
Tikonov Grand Union: Budget $5B. No yards.

Rim Worlds Republic: Budget $20B. Shipyard 2/1 Finmark, 1 Apollo.

Principality of Rasalhague: Budget $1B. No yards.


That should hopefully be enough for everyone to get started. I'll start working through this mass of NPC players over the next couple days.

Also, a couple small rule changes. First, if you choose to build ships with standard KF drives in your yards (i.e., armed merchantmen or primitive WarShips), your yards produce them twice as fast as compact KF drive ships(ie., true WarShips). You can produce four standard-drive ships per yard per turn. Second, we'll go with my option #2 for refit rules - if you want to refit ships or stations, create a new variant by spending 50% of the unit cost on R&D, and then upgrade them for the cost difference.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 11:46:40 by Alsadius »

marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #127 on: 12 June 2018, 00:44:40 »
One question, what about DropShips?  I would assume that these would be built at the same yard, but to what amount per turn or are we just concentrating on WarShip designs?  Same question for fighters/small craft.

And i'll assume you want fluff etc for the ships?  And is it a bad thing that i've already got two designs done and am working on the fluff :D
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 02:32:38 by marauder648 »
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Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #128 on: 12 June 2018, 05:12:42 »
One question, what about DropShips?  I would assume that these would be built at the same yard, but to what amount per turn or are we just concentrating on WarShip designs?  Same question for fighters/small craft.

And i'll assume you want fluff etc for the ships?  And is it a bad thing that i've already got two designs done and am working on the fluff :D

DropShips are less cutting-edge than WarShips, and most of them can be civilian designs(even navies need a lot of cargo models). Also, they use different factory space in canon. We're assuming that the combination of the two leaves you with sufficient DropShip capacity to not worry very much about the details. Ditto fighters and small craft. The only things that are production-limited are WarShips and armed JumpShips, and even then the only reason AJS are on that list is because they'll probably use the same production lines. I'll admit that this may be somewhat unrealistic, especially for the Periphery powers, but it's a lot simpler this way. If you want to be realistic, just avoid buying thousands of them.

As for fluff, it's not strictly necessary, but it's appreciated.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 05:25:18 by Alsadius »

marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #129 on: 12 June 2018, 06:24:52 »
The TCN - Year One.

The year 2350 was one of great importance for the Taurian Concordat, it marked the completion of their first shipyard in orbit over Taurus and was seen as a major stepping point along the road to prosperity and security. 
The newly appointed Director of Naval Construction was empowered to begin immediate construction on ships that could be used to expand the Concordat and explore the outlying region around Detroit for suitable colonies and resources. 
Exploration would be undertaken by the older Aquilla class ships whilst the Taurus Naval Yard would work on construction of the first ships that would ensure the security of Taurus and the Concordat’s territories.
Its not surprising that the Concordat’s first designs were based on the Aquilla class that had brought the refugees to their new worlds.  Their first effort was  classed as a Destroyer called the Independence class.  At 75,000 tons the ship looked like a scaled down Aquilla and used many of the technologies present in the larger design.  The main visual differences were that the Independence was much more bulky and blocky thanks to its layers of armour and its weapon emplacements.

Designed to patrol Taurian space, the Independence lacked the large cargo capacity of the Aquilla class and had a shorter range, but still more than enough to reach the Taurian holdings.  The construction of the Independence also helped with the rapid industrialization of Taurus and brought in jobs and economic stability with a surge in asteroid mining and a large number of factories being constructed that could produce parts for ships and vehicles on the ground. 

The Independence was quite simply armed with a series of autocannons and missiles for anti-shipping work and the larger White Shark launchers (called the SS-M-500 ‘Rapier’ or just Rapier in Taurian service) could be fitted with nuclear warheads.
The ship also carried berths for a dozen fighters, four small craft and could dock one DropShip making her a quite flexible unit. 

Also at the TNY the Taurians first cruiser was taking shape, again, based on the Aquilla class and weighing the same at 100,000 tons the Bull Run class cruiser was in reality a scaled up Independence class ship, mirroring its armament choices and layout but with greater firepower including a pair of the newly developed SS-M-600 ‘Shipwreck’ missile launchers (Killer Whales).  Capable of carrying 24 fighters as well as 4 small craft and 1 DropShip the Bull Run was designed as a Flotilla leader and command ship.  Six Independence class ships were authorized as were a pair of Bull Run class vessels and these would form the First and Second Naval Squadrons of the Taurian Navy.

Although the construction of these eight ships was considerable, it was still well under the naval budget limits, with the excess being spent on R&D as well as overhauls and refits.  The TNC or Taurian Naval College also began construction during this period and it would admit its first class in 2358 to further assist in the growth of the TCN.

Independence Class Destroyer

At over 300 meters and massing 75,000 tons the Independence class would be considered small by later JumpShip standards but for her time she was quite large.  Heavily influenced by the Aquilla design the Independence copied many systems from the larger vessel and would feature a scaled down reactor system that was almost identical save being two thirds the size.  Armed well enough to be considered a threat to other WarShips the Independence could engage at long and shorter ranges with its mix of autocannons and missiles.  The hanger for a dozen fighters was quite prominent, even if it did make the design more cramped to serve upon and set a standard for the TCN and their marrage of fighters with WarShips.  Unfortunately weight constraints limited the rear firepower and because of the bulk of the transit drives there was less protection on the ships aft quarters. 

Despite these failings the Independence was an object of immense pride when the first ships left the yards over Taurus and the class would remain in service until eventually displaced by more modern ships.  But despite this, the Independence class was not scrapped but put into reserve or assigned to training flotillas, and because the class was cheap to produce, many ships were held in Mothballs, waiting for reactivation should the Concordat be threatened.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Independence Class Destroyer

Tech: Inner Sphere

Ship Cost: $4,566,634,000.00
Magazine Cost: $1,843,360.00
BV2: 12,476

Mass: 75,000
K-F Drive System: Primitive

Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive

Safe Thrust: 2
Maximum Thrust: 3

Armor Type: Standard

Armament:

6 Naval AC 10
2 Capital Launcher White Shark
5 Capital Launcher Barracuda
32 AC 2

Class/Model/Name: Independence Class Destroyer

Mass: 75,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 9,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 2
Maximum: 3
Controls: 188.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Primitive (4 Integrity) 37,500.00
Jump Sail: (3 Integrity) 34.00
Structural Integrity: 30 2,250.00
Total Heat Sinks: 419 Single 280.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12000 points 1,224.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00

Armor: 200 pts Standard 250.00

Fore: 40
Fore-Left/Right: 35/35
Aft-Left/Right: 30/30
Aft: 30

Dropship Capacity: 1 1,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 1 (100 meter) 50.00

Escape Pods: 10 70.00
Life Boats: 9 63.00

Crew And Passengers:
14 Officers in Steerage Quarters 70.00
46 Crew in Steerage Quarters 230.00
19 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 95.00
44 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 Marines 100.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass

2 Naval AC 10 Nose 60 200 (20-C) Long-C 4,000.00
2 Capital Launcher White Shark Nose 30 60 (6-C) 240.00
4 AC 2 Nose 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Naval AC 10 FL 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
2 Capital Launcher Barracuda FL 20 40 (4-C) 180.00
4 AC 2 FL 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Naval AC 10 FR 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
2 Capital Launcher Barracuda FR 20 40 (4-C) 180.00
4 AC 2 FR 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Naval AC 10 LBS 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
4 AC 2 LBS 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Naval AC 10 RBS 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
4 AC 2 RBS 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

4 AC 2 AL 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

4 AC 2 AR 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Capital Launcher Barracuda Aft 10 20 (2-C) 90.00
4 AC 2 Aft 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00


Ammo Rounds
Naval AC 10 Ammo 120
Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 30
Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 80
AC 2 Ammo 2,880

Aerospace group

12 x Fighters
4 x Small Craft
1 x DropShip Docking collar

Total cost including ammo - $6,409,514

Producing eight of the class would cost $51,276,112 including magazine costs

Bull Run Class Cruiser

The Aquilla TCS Onondaga would be the base frame for the TCN’s first ‘cruiser’ and at 100,000 tons the ship was large for the time.  Sharing many parts with the Aquilla and Independence class ships the Bull Run class was built to be a squadron and flotilla leader, acting as a command ship for the groups of Independence class ships that would patrol Taurian space. 
In essence ‘the same but more’ the Bull Run increased the armament and fighter capacity of the Independence at a cost in endurance.  Despite their lack of range the class still had enough firepower to make a potential attacker sit up and take notice and was felt to be well protected against the fighters and attack shuttles of the time.
Unfortunately the Bull Runs were horribly cramped thanks to their rather large crews and this made them unpopular to serve on.  Like the Independence class the Bull Runs were phased out as more modern ships came online but of the sixteen built, a dozen were held in mothballs although most would eventually be stripped for parts and eventually scrapped.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Bull Run Class Cruiser

Tech: Inner Sphere

Ship Cost: $4,691,926,000.00
Magazine Cost: $1,979,360.00
BV2: 16,137

Mass: 100,000
K-F Drive System: Primitive
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 2
Maximum Thrust: 3
Armor Type: Standard

Armament:

9 Naval AC 10
2 Capital Launcher White Shark
5 Capital Launcher Barracuda
32 AC 2
16 Machine Gun (IS)


Class/Model/Name: Bull Run Class Cruiser
Mass: 100,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 12,000.00

Thrust
Safe: 2
Maximum: 3

Controls: 250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Primitive (4 Integrity) 50,000.00
Jump Sail: (3 Integrity) 35.00
Structural Integrity: 40 4,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 374 Single 220.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 18000 points 1,836.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00

Armor: 264 pts Standard 330.00

Fore: 52
Fore-Left/Right: 40/40
Aft-Left/Right: 40/40
Aft: 52

Dropship Capacity: 1 1,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 1 (100 meter) 50.00

Escape Pods: 10 70.00
Life Boats: 10 70.00

Crew And Passengers:
16 Officers in Steerage Quarters 80.00
49 Crew in Steerage Quarters 245.00
25 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 125.00
68 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 Marines 100.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass

3 Naval AC 10 Nose 90 300 (30-C) Long-C 6,000.00
2 Capital Launcher White Shark Nose 30 60 (6-C) 240.00
4 AC 2 Nose 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00
4 Machine Gun (IS) Nose 8 (0.8-C) 2.00

1 Naval AC 10 FL 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
2 Capital Launcher Barracuda FL 20 40 (4-C) 180.00
4 AC 2 FL 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Naval AC 10 FR 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00
2 Capital Launcher Barracuda FR 20 40 (4-C) 180.00
4 AC 2 FR 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

2 Naval AC 10 LBS 60 200 (20-C) 4,000.00
4 AC 2 LBS 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00
4 Machine Gun (IS) LBS 8 (0.8-C) 2.00

2 Naval AC 10 RBS 60 200 (20-C) 4,000.00
4 AC 2 RBS 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00
4 Machine Gun (IS) RBS 8 (0.8-C) 2.00

4 AC 2 AL 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

4 AC 2 AR 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00

1 Capital Launcher Barracuda Aft 10 20 (2-C) 90.00
4 AC 2 Aft 4 8 (0.8-C) 24.00
4 Machine Gun (IS) Aft 8 (0.8-C) 2.00


Ammo Rounds
Naval AC 10 Ammo 330
Capital Launcher White Shark Ammo 30
Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 80
AC 2 Ammo 2880
Machine Gun (IS) Ammo 3200

Aerospace Group

24 x Fighters
4 x Small Craft
1 x DropShip Collar

Cargo 2570 tons

Total cost including ammunition - $7,271,286


6 x Independence - 38,457,084
2 x Bull Run - 14,542,572


Total - 52,999,656.00

Marathon Class IPS

The Marathon class of Interstellar Patrol Ship was the TCN’s equivalent of a corvette and was designed to be cheap to build and operate, requiring minimal crew whilst having enough of a punch to threaten larger ships or deal with any Pirate craft it might encounter.  At 50,000 tons the ship would be outmassed by later DropShips and it was very cramped, lacking in many basic amenities and even a grav-deck.  But the stripped-down hull and its powerful reactors did have one advantage, it was fast.  Capable of pulling up to 3g of sustained thrust. 
But with all the yards occupied it was not able to build the Marathon class until the Independence and Bull Run class were completed and construction of the class was not authorized at first although there was the budget to build them and they were seen as a useful screening element to any future formation.

Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Marathon Class IPS
Mass: 50,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 12,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 4
Maximum: 6
Controls: 125.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Primitive (3 Integrity) 25,000.00
Jump Sail: (3 Integrity) 33.00
Structural Integrity: 25 1,250.00
Total Heat Sinks: 154 Single
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 20000 points 2,040.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00

Armor: 157 pts Standard 196.00

Fore: 18
Fore-Left/Right: 16/16
Aft-Left/Right: 14/14
Aft: 15

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks:
None
Escape Pods: 5 35.00
Life Boats: 5 35.00

Crew And Passengers:

12 Officers in Steerage Quarters 60.00
43 Crew in Steerage Quarters 215.00
8 Gunners and Others in Steerage Quarters 40.00
5 Bay Personnel

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass

1 Capital Launcher White Shark Nose 15 30 (3-C) Extreme-C 120.00
2 AC 2 Nose 2 4 (0.4-C) 12.00

1 Capital Launcher Barracuda FL 10 20 (2-C) 90.00
2 AC 2 FL 2 4 (0.4-C) 12.00

1 Capital Launcher Barracuda FR 10 20 (2-C) 90.00
2 AC 2 FR 2 4 (0.4-C) 12.00

1 Naval AC 10 LBS 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00

1 Naval AC 10 RBS 30 100 (10-C) 2,000.00

3 AC 5 AL 3 15 (1.5-C) 24.00

3 AC 5 AR 3 15 (1.5-C) 24.00

1 Capital Launcher Barracuda Aft 10 20 (2-C) 90.00

Ammo Rounds

Capital Launcher Killer Whale Ammo 25
Capital Launcher Barracuda Ammo 40
Naval AC 10 Ammo 50
AC 5 Ammo 360
AC 2 Ammo 810

Aerospace group

1 x Small craft

Cargo capacity - 1,200 tons



A digital rendering of the Marathon class ship shows its small size and stripped down nature as well as its forwards launch bay for its shuttle.


Any thoughts and comments are most welcome!








« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 06:35:11 by marauder648 »
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Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #130 on: 12 June 2018, 06:37:51 »
Let's knock off some of the easy nations on the NPC side.

The Principality of Rasalhague is buying 200 fighters(200*5 = 1,000), and nothing else. They're trying to smuggle them in with hopes of ambushing a major Draconis convoy, if they can.

The Tikonov Grand Union is being wracked by riots right now, along with economic chaos and recent invasions, even though it's technically at peace right now. They've decided to invest in a rapid-reaction force for their army. They're buying a JumpShip(500), three DropShips to fill its collars(3*300 = 900), and a dozen fighters(12*5=60) for the carrier-fit DS to allow forces to be moved between planets. To assist planetary forces, they're buying two hundred shuttles (200=10 = 2,000) to be loaned out to police and army forces on major planets as a rapid-reaction force against cities that are particularly restive, and three hundred planet-based fighters(300*5 = 1,500) for use in extreme cases. A small research program(40) is initiated with a focus on fighter-equippable nonlethal weaponry for riot control.

(Out of character note - the research goal is just fluff. They have no control over what gets researched.)

The Rim Worlds Republic is in the middle of going Meiji, trying to build up educational infrastructure while not freaking out their neighbours too badly. As such, WarShips are on their back burner. They're buying a dozen civilian JumpShips (12*500 = 6,000) and the DropShips to match (36*300 = 10,800), in hopes of building up a merchant marine that can discover Inner Sphere technology faster, and perhaps spur colonists to consider RWR planets. Not wanting to neglect home defence entirely, they're also investing in twenty wings of fighters(18 per wing, 360*5 = 1,800) for planetary defence, and starting a broad-based research effort to catch up with Inner Sphere technology levels(1,400).

I was going to have the SIML and UHC buy a lot of stations, but the spreadsheet doesn't do station cost calculations correctly. I'll release an updated version of the spreadsheet soon-ish, and run those nations once I've done that. Besides, I have to head to work. I should at least be able to figure out Terran shipyards at that point.

I've also started a Google Docs sheet to keep a master list of everything in a more usable format than the forum thread. It's not finished, but see here for what I do have.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #131 on: 12 June 2018, 07:26:18 »
Marauder - I love it.   Very Taurian/Minor power.  Also, I am ashamed.  -takes my pile of munchkined murderdeathkill designs and scraps, starts over-

Questions: 
1.)  Are we limited to Primitive Drives?  I thought we had compact cores - or is Marauder being Periphery Appropriate?

2.)  A class I yard can build 2 Class 1 Ships (250k).  A class 3 yard 2 class 3 ships (750k).  Can a Class 3 yard build 6 Class 1 ships?

marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #132 on: 12 June 2018, 07:33:14 »
Thank you :D

I'm being peripherpy appropriate, if we're building the navy from the ground up, i'd want to start with technology thats familiar and common at the time, so the primitive jumpship core is, in my mind common enough faire that even the Taurians with their limited industrial base can build them, mainly thanks to just throwing enough manpower at it and having abundant resources fairly available to hand.

Also i'm going, at first for quantity, and once yards, doctrine and training are established fully as well as the industry to support them, then we'll see a doctrinal shift and change.

And by habit I try not to make munchy designs, yeah its easy to do a 2.5MT ship with a cargo bay of 2000 tons and the rest going into weapons and armour, but its harder and more challenging and, I find it more enjoyable to make a ship that's at least close to canon and without reaching for the big wheel of edam cheese.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 07:51:40 by marauder648 »
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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #133 on: 12 June 2018, 07:59:04 »
Thank you :D

I'm being peripherpy appropriate, if we're building the navy from the ground up, i'd want to start with technology thats familiar and common at the time, so the primitive jumpship core is, in my mind common enough faire that even the Taurians with their limited industrial base can build them, mainly thanks to just throwing enough manpower at it and having abundant resources fairly available to hand.

Also i'm going, at first for quantity, and once yards, doctrine and training are established fully as well as the industry to support them, then we'll see a doctrinal shift and change.

And by habit I try not to make munchy designs, yeah its easy to do a 2.5MT ship with a cargo bay of 2000 tons and the rest going into weapons and armour, but its harder and more challenging and, I find it more enjoyable to make a ship that's at least close to canon and without reaching for the big wheel of edam cheese.

I think Im going to split the baby.  Optimize hard, but not for the usual things.  Balance  SI tonnage to throweight tonnage, mount enough cargo to not sweat fleet resupply (as unlike the Hegemony, -I- have no interest in projecting power across the entire inner sphere - so ‘a lot’ of cargo for me is way less than SL standard).

Basically a confortable, roomy, sustainable fleet, heavy on soft stats, that Mahan would approve of.

marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #134 on: 12 June 2018, 08:00:42 »
That makes perfect sense :) Whilst the TCN at the start is very much a littorial navy and yeah the cargo space on the SLDF ships was absurd, but then again that's mostly due to the fluff for them being done before the rules were a thing, which left so many with great globs of cargo space.

I can also see the Taurians producing a fair few dropships, and I plan to make a Drost equivalent especially the assault dropship which came out and patrol ships like that would basically be the bread and butter of a Taurian worlds defences, with dropships and fighters being the main defence until the fleet gets there.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 08:03:08 by marauder648 »
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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #135 on: 12 June 2018, 08:04:59 »
Well, as I said above - the SLN isnt -that bad- once you look at their deployment areas and the fact that a 1.5 MT ship costs way, way less than 3x500kt ships.  Easy enough to just upgrade the carto space on a 700kt cruiser into a 1MT cruiser, and leave everything else the same.

Im waffling between my first hulls being maid-of-all-work corvettes or some serious batleline DDs.  I just hate building little guys on turn 1 that Im going to be buying over and over and over, in terms of maintenance - but no fleet ever complained that it had -too many- light, multipurpose hulls...

marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #136 on: 12 June 2018, 08:10:43 »
Oh indeed with the SLN its not the one Essex II you've got to worry about, its her three other mates and the Sov Soy leading them that you also need to pay attention to :p
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Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #137 on: 12 June 2018, 08:21:37 »
Marauder: That is way, way higher than your budget. Remember, lead ships cost double. The first Independence costs 9,134M and the first Bull Run costs 9,384M. You have a total budget of 10,000M, and while I'm allowing deficits, the rules are punitive and the deficit cap is too low for you to build both. From fluff, I'd suggest you build one Independence, buy the support craft to go along with it(12*5+4*10+1*300 = 400M), and spend the other 466M on research and/or system defence.

Marcus: You have compact cores, and even sub-compact(Bug-Eye) cores. You don't need to use them, though. And no, big yards can't pump out zillions of small ships. You in particular have far too much yard space for your budget(because I gave the Lyrans lots of yards to represent industrial muscle and comparatively little budget due to political chaos), and some of the yard space will probably sit idle. Once your politics get under control in a few turns, it'll be less pinched.

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #138 on: 12 June 2018, 08:30:28 »
I thought the budget was 10 billion, not 10 million hence my confusion.  Also where are the rules about costs and the like? I don't recall seeing them anywhere.

aurian Concordat: Budget $10B. Shipyard 1 Taurus.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 08:41:19 by marauder648 »
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marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #139 on: 12 June 2018, 08:33:01 »
Im well aware of my oversized yards.  Wasnt planning on usig them to build a swarm, but was curious.

 Im not going to be building anything like a full production schedule.  I think a flight of committee-designed corvettes to represent different interests from 9 different archons.

Im also -painfully- aware of where a few of those yards are located!  Right on my borders...

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #140 on: 12 June 2018, 09:20:08 »
I thought the budget was 10 billion, not 10 million hence my confusion.  Also where are the rules about costs and the like? I don't recall seeing them anywhere.

Taurian Concordat: Budget $10B. Shipyard 1 Taurus.

Your budget is $10B = $10,000M. If you mean my cost list, it's here. If you mean the official cost calculation process, it's described in StratOps, but the spreadsheet calculates them for you. It's wrong for stations(it assumes they have a K-F drive, which drives up the cost like crazy), but the ship numbers seem accurate. Your post had costs in it for your first two ships, which is what I used to come up with those numbers:
Quote
Class/Model/Name:   Independence Class Destroyer

Tech:    Inner Sphere

Ship Cost:   $4,566,634,000.00
Quote
Class/Model/Name:   Bull Run Class Cruiser

Tech:    Inner Sphere

Ship Cost:   $4,691,926,000.00

Double those values due to lead-ship costs, and you get the $9,134M and $9,384M I quoted. So you can afford one, but not both just yet. Save the other one for a turn or two down the line, perhaps. They're very reasonable Taurian starter designs, both in stats and in fluff, but you're a small nation. Doing R&D and production on two new WarShip designs at once is just too much for you to handle right now. (FYI, budgets will mostly go up over time as your empires develop, and of course you'll also build up a backlog of existing designs that can be built more cheaply)

Edit: I just realized number systems might be the issue here. I'm Canadian, and we use the American numbering system - commas are thousand separators, periods start the decimal, and a billion is 10^9. If any of you are from other parts of the world, some of these conventions may be different. To type it up in an unambiguous way, the Taurian budget is $10 000 000 000, or 10 000 million.
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 09:23:28 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #141 on: 12 June 2018, 09:25:51 »
OH!

I think I may know what went wrong here....

Is it possible that Alsadius is in the U.S., and marauder in Britain or thereabout?

In BRITIAN, 1000 Million is a MILLIARD.  A MILLION Millions is called a Billion.

In the UNITED STATES, 1000 Million is called a Billion, and a MILLION Millions is called a Trillion.

I think the design intent is that budgets are in U.S. Billions, 1x10 to the 9th CBill equivalents.


marauder648

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #142 on: 12 June 2018, 09:30:02 »
yep I'm a Brit, so when I saw 10B that meant 10 billion which is a hell of a lot more than 10 million :D  So basically the budget is 10 million Cbills.  Okay :p

Unfortunately, I'm probably gonna have to drop out, I was doing the ships and fluff as a distraction during breaks at work, but I don't really have the ability or time to take part in a full on campaign I am afraid.
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Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #143 on: 12 June 2018, 09:37:07 »
yep I'm a Brit, so when I saw 10B that meant 10 billion which is a hell of a lot more than 10 million :D  So basically the budget is 10 million Cbills.  Okay :p

Unfortunately, I'm probably gonna have to drop out, I was doing the ships and fluff as a distraction during breaks at work, but I don't really have the ability or time to take part in a full on campaign I am afraid.

10 American-billion is still quite a lot more than 10 million, but it's quite a bit less than 10 British-billion. You can afford one or two ships a round at that price, plus various sundries. And tbh, you've already done enough work to last the first several turns, so you can coast on that for the time being. I don't intend for this to be a killer pace - one new design and a bit of fluff every week is more than enough, especially for a Periphery player.

(Heck, even if you're sure about dropping out, I'll be using them for the first few turns regardless. Less work for me, and they really are good designs.)

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #144 on: 12 June 2018, 09:40:24 »
10 Milliard by your standards, I believe.  Your budget would be 10 Thousand Million.

And please dont drop out!  Your like one of the major warship guys.  I reckon a turn every week or two should be easy enough for your time schedule, and I really like your designs.

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #145 on: 12 June 2018, 09:47:13 »
okay okay, you twisted my arm :D

And speaking of Warships

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61530.0

Have a read of that if you want and if you feel like it, lemme know what you think :)
« Last Edit: 12 June 2018, 09:50:42 by marauder648 »
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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #146 on: 12 June 2018, 12:19:06 »
Lyran Commonwealth Turn 1, 2350-2360.

This one is a NOVEL, because it covers doctrine, deployment, design rationales, and the like clear.  Expect later turns to be much more cut and dried, unless those things change.

This post may be edited to include a fluff/RP post or two going into more detail on doctrine, and/or an RP piece set from the POV of the LCN First Lord of Admiralty 2350, Jacqueline Angler.

Code: [Select]
Lyran Commonwealth, Turn Beginning 2350
Starting Funds:  0
Income:  80,000,000,000
Starting Shipyards: Alarion: 3/3  New Kyoto: 3/1  Tamar 1  Gibbs 1
Starting Warships: None
Starting Jumpships:  None
Starting Dropships:  None
Starting Fighters:  None



Expenditure Cost
Maintenance 0
Prototype Production: 1 Heimdaller FF 10.234B
Standard Production:  5 Heimdaller FF 25.635B
Jumpship Production: 30         15B
Dropship Production: 0 0
Small Craft:  240 (4 Regiments) 2.4B
Fighter:  4,800 Fighters (80 Regiments) 24B
Research:  2.731 Billion 2.731B
Total: 80B



Lyran Commonwealth, Turn Ending 2360
Ending Funds:  0
Ending Shipyards: Alarion: 3/3  New Kyoto: 3/1  Tamar 1  Gibbs 1
Ending Warships:  Heimdaller FF x6 30.702B
Ending Jumpships:  30
Ending Dropships:  0
Ending Small Craft 240 (4 Regiments)
Ending Fighters: 4,800 (80 Regiments)


Rationale/Explanation:
The first flight of Heimdaller class 240Kt Frigates are intended as multi-purpose, maid-of-all-work ships, able to deploy
20 fighters, two brigades of troops, suppress enemy fighter strikes with their 150 Barracuda missile tubes, or stand off
and hopefully dissuade (or arrange to disengage from) larger enemy vessels with those same massed missile launches.

Jumpship production is intended to encourage trade and ties between the three realms of the new LC.  Any unused
warship yard space will also be made available to building unlisted jump ships for the civilian market at cost.  In
exchange for this, all interstellar carriers are subject to being nationalized in times of national crisis, as well as expected
to carry consumables (fuel, food, parts, etc) as required for any LCN ship operating in their area.

The lack of Dropship production is based on the lack of docking collars on LCN Warships.  Civilian shipping concerns are
considered to provide their own dropships when using LCN “Military Reserve” Jumpships.

Heavy Small Craft (and -massive- fighter) production is for utility and defensive purposes.  The LC is surrounded by
larger, not necessarily friendly, powers.  It further has two of its shipyards located almost on the border with those
powers.  Fighters represent an essentially defensive posture, as a few regiments of fighters, coupled with the heavy
ammunition and fuel loads carried by a planet, can far more effectively defend a world than the same C-Bills in Warship.
All fighters not carried on ships may be considered deployed to forward -Naval- fighter bases, where they will defend the
world and its assets against hostile landing, as well as operating in support of ground forces if the enemy is able to land.
Lyran fighters are designed and optimized for this purpose.

The remainder spent on research (equivalent to half of a 7th frigate!) may be misspent (I am still not certain R&D is a
worthwhile expenditure under these rules, given the fact that it gives only a 1 turn advantage), but it fits the fluff of the
nation and no navy has long prospered by ignoring the advance of technology, so the LCN will not.


Naval Doctrine:
1.) The Seat of Purpose is on the Land.  All Naval activities (including destruction of enemy naval assets) exist to
further territorial purposes.  Commerce Protection is still a territorial purpose.  The massive fighter regiments are
primarily defensive. 

2.) Calculated Risk.  Lyran ships will generally be tough for their class (14% mass to SI) and with extensive defensive
armaments.  Fighters are primarily a defensive and second-strike weapon.  They are expected to use this resilience to
take calculated risk.  Vessels are not to be risked without a reasonable chance for commensurate gain, with the
exception of the defense of civilian lives.  So long as the sacrifice has even a chance of making a meaningful difference,
Lyran ships are expected to fight to the last to allow civilians a chance for shelter, succor, or flight, and to risk
themselves in support of troops.  This is not entirely altruistic, as a Navy that the Army loves is a Navy that gets more
money, in a battlemech centric universe. :)

3.) Extended Deployment/Agile Posture:  Lyran ships are intentionally and heavily over-engineered and provisioned.
This is reflected in power systems (200% of required heatsinks), the lack of bay quarters (all personnel in full up
quarters – this improves morale on long deployments and reduces supply usage), quirks (easy to maintain), extensive
small craft loadouts, the presence of marines on every ship (useful for flag showing, customs, etc), largish cargo holds
(though smaller than Star League, the LCN does not need to deploy for years across the entire periphery), commonly
installed Large Comm-Sensor Suites, and the like.  Lyran ships do not operate Drop Ships or a Jump Ship/Drop Ship
Fleet Train, being provisioned to function without them.  Each ship has two crews, one relieving the other.

The intention is that Lyran ships should need little yard time or rest/replenishment time, and be ready to respond at all
times to any opportunity presented.  To this end, the large cargo holds are a reserve – on deployment in friendly or
neutral space, Lyran vessels will where possible take on supplies from civilian bases, so that their onboard cargo serves
as reserve if they are required to go forward for offensive action.

4.) WMD Policy:  Biological and Chemical Agents will not be used, developed, deployed, or carried.  Nuclear weapons
are carried.  Nuclear weapons are on a strict ‘no first use’ policy, but once an enemy has used them, they are weapons
free and will be used without restriction against naval targets.  Nuclear weapons will not be used against a planetary
surface.  Warship weaponry may be used as fire support, but only well outside civilian areas.  There is no justification
sufficient for mass civilian casualties, and even limited civilian casualties (such as are common in commerce warfare)
will be avoided when operationally possible.


Heimdaller (Frigate)

   The Heimdaller frigate was the first warship laid down by the nascent Lyran Commonwealth in 2350.  Originally envisioned as a fast, well armed heavy destroyer capable of 4G’s acceleration and carrying heavy broadside armament, the intent was for the Heimdaller to be able to stand as a military equal with anything being produced by the surrounding states, and even to if necessary stand-off forces from the nascent Terran Hegemony, if that giant should turn its attention to conquest.

   This was not to be.  First Lord Jaqueline Angler, 1st Baron Angler, TVR, FR, ACM, was to be disappointed as her budget, plans, and priorities were ‘nibbled to death by ducks’.  The 9 Archons of the Lyran Commonwealth did not speak with a single voice.  The Army wanted an armed transport.  The Naval Aviation advocates demanded vast flight decks and enough docking collars to support a virtual cloud of light, dropship hulled carriers.  Military Manufacturers wanted something carrying as many, and as large, a set of guns as possible – except for the ones that wanted as many Capital Missile Launchers as possible.  Leaders of border worlds wanted warship monitors and defense satellites stationed over their worlds.  The great trading cartels wanted armed jumpships, but would settle for ‘Warships’ that were essentially vast cargo holds with some notional weapons.

   It should have been a disaster.  Instead, Lord Angler engaged in a series of compromises with the vessel, and the naval procurement board, trading favors like horses from one concern to another.   The Army got transport for a heavy armored brigade and an infantry brigade, and a promise that the navy would look out for them.  The Naval Air arm got a flight of fighters shipboard, and an order for a massive fleet of new Aerospace Fighters – which were then parceled out to naval air bases along the threatened boarder worlds.  The Manufacturers got missile launchers, and a promise to buy more missiles.  The cartels got additional jumpship production on the condition that the navy have use of those jumpships when necessity demanded it.

   And Jane Angler, TVR, FR, ACM, got a warship.  What was left after the horse-trading finished was a capable, flexible ‘maid of all work’.  The over-large hullform originally designed is expensive to produce (Heimdaller costs nearly half as much as the originally planned warship – which would have been three times her size) but saves space for many items that normally are secondary priorities.  Her over-large engine spaces and downrated drives result in the GN-3 Ginny “Torchdrives” requiring little maintenance, and that easy to perform.  Crew berthing spaces are extensive for even the lowest rating or private, improving morale and efficiency on long deployments.  Spare space that once was intended to carry Naval Cannon ports is packed with advanced sensors and monitoring equipment, complete with redundant systems.  Extensive small boat bays and the presence of a company of marines allows the vessel to serve as relief, support, or customs duty – and those same boat bays allow it to deploy its carried armored brigade in just a handful of trips.

   All of this flexibility and sustainability does not come for free.  Capital armament is limited to an array of light capital missiles, license-built McRoss Industries knockoffs of the Hegemony Barracuda based on plans sourced from DiTron Industries.  The phenomenal number of tubes allows the Heimdaller to sweep the skies of enemy fighters, or threaten even larger ships from extreme ranges, but reloads are limited – the Heimdaller will have to roll ship to present fresh ammunition supplies after a mere five salvos.  Much debate was had over the -choice- of capital missile, with strong advocates existing for both the medium and heavy weight missiles - both outperform the Barracuda in firepower per ton, and the medium weight 'White Shark' clone was notable for its armor piercing qualities.  The light missile was ultimately chosen for its greater accuracy, both in having a built in anti-fighter guidance system, and because the missile itself is more accurate against all targets than almost any other naval weapon.* 

Further, the heavy internal bracing and structural members of the planned heavy destroyer were greatly reduced in the smaller frigate – leaving the Heimdaller far more fragile than Admiral Angler intended.

   For all her flaws, compromises, and drawbacks, the Heimdaller proved a generally useful light warship, as much at home transporting and supporting troops as she is doing customs work, anti-piracy patrols, showing the flag, or providing escort to ‘true’ capital ships.  Indeed, the LCN was much taken with the positive qualities that came from the original, unintentional downsizing, and in many ways the Heimdaller set the pattern for what would follow.

*Footnote:  The Humble Barracuda, while having slightly less absolute range than the NL/55 or HNPPC, actually has a longer 'Short' 'Medium' and 'Long' Bracket than -any- other naval weapon, due to having a double-sized 'short' range (Barracuda is 'Short' from 1-20, 'Medium' from 21-30, etc.  All other naval weapons have equally sized brackets).  As a result, the Barracuda is firing at 'Medium' at least as soon as the big energy naval weapons, and is actually at THN 6 Medium while the mighty NAC/30, king of Naval Weapons, is still in its THN 10 extreme bracket.  A small advantage, but potentially a telling one for one turn of nearly unreturned fire.

Code: [Select]
Heimdaller FF
Tech: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 2350
Mass: 240,000 tons
Length: 857 meters
Width:  133 meters
Height:  90 meters
Sail Diameter: 773 meters
Fuel: 2,000 tons (5,000)
Tons/Burn-day: 39.52
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 7
Heat Sinks: 3,320 (200%)
Structural Integrity: 60
BV2: 104,620
Cost:  $5.127B

Armor
Fore: 20
Fore-Sides: 34
Aft-Sides: 40
Aft: 40

Cargo
Bay 1 (Nose): 20 Fighters (4 Doors)
Bay 2 (RBS):  9 Small Craft, 9 Light Vehicles, 9 Heavy Vehicles (3 Doors)
Bay 3 (LBS):  9 Small Craft, 9 Light Vehicles, 9 Heavy Vehicles (3 Doors)
Bay 3 (Aft):  84 Marines, 252 Infantry (0 Doors)
Bay 4 (Aft):  8190 Tons Cargo (1 Door)
(Typical Cargo is 1 Year of Food, 2,400 Tons Spare Parts/Supplies, and 4000 Tons mission tailored)

DropShip Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (80 meters diameter)
Escape Pods: 80
Life Boats: 80

Crew:  618 (Includes Vehicle Crews and 1 Tech per 2 Vehicles/Spacecraft)
Marines:    84
Troops: 252
All Crew, Marines, Troops in 1st/2nd Class Quarters

Ammunition: 750 Barracuda Missiles
16000 AC/5 Rounds
16000 MG Rounds

Notes:
Large NCSS
Mounts 288 tons of Standard armor. 
200% of required heat sinks
Quirks:  Easy to Maintain, Improved Communications, Poor Performance


Weapons:

Nose:
10 Barracuda (50 Rnds)
20 AC/5 (2000 Rnds)
20 MG (2000 Rnds)


Fore Left/Right:
20 Barracuda (100 Rnds)
20 AC/5 (2000 Rnds)
20 MG (2000 Rnds)

Broadside:
20 Barracuda (100 Rnds)
20 AC/5 (2000 Rnds)
20 MG (2000 Rnds)

Aft Left/Right:
20 Barracuda (100 Rnds)
20 AC/5 (2000 Rnds)
20 MG (2000 Rnds)

Rear:
20 Barracuda (100 Rnds)
20 AC/5 (2000 Rnds)
20 MG (2000 Rnds)


Shu Heavy Fighter

Named for the Egyptian Goddess of the wind that stood between the realms of Earth and Sky, the Shu Heavy Fighter was the result of a design competition announced in 2340 to build what would become the primary naval fighter of the budding LCN.

Two primary designs made it into the final phase.  The leading entry, from Bowie Industries, topped out the fighter weight class and practically dripped with firepower, its wide flying wings supporting a full 8 autocannon.  Firepower demonstrations never failed to impress the politicians, and it was looking as if Bowie had a lock on the contract as it entered the final phase.

CBM Corporation of Donegal’s lighter Shu class fighter, though still formally a ‘heavy’ unit, offered less than half of the firepower of the Bowie entry, in exchange for greater performance and much greater resilience.  Though the Naval Procurement office preferred the lighter craft, it was in the process of being overruled by those who held the purse strings, and CBM Corporation publicly challenged Bowie Industries to a fly off, with the contract on the line.  Unable to back out without losing face, Bowie agreed.

The initial stages of the competition involved testing handling, time-to-climb, endurance, and firepower tests.  Both designs performed well, but the Shu’s minor advantage in maneuverability was more than offset by the massive firepower of the Bowie’s 8 cannon as the test entered into its final phase.

The final round of testing was atmospheric combat maneuvering.  Here the Shu’s performance mattered more, but even with an advantage in hits scored, the Bowie entry looked too far ahead to catch.  In the closing minutes of the timed match, the Bowie fighter lost control in a close pass, driving itself headlong into the Shu.

The Shu’s reinforced structure and 23 tons of armor plate sheared through the Bowie’s wing as if the heavier fighter was made of tissue.  The heavier fighter had sacrificed almost all armor protection in the name of firepower, and its structure collapsed on impact.  The Shu was thrown out of control, but the pilot recovered in time to look over his shoulder and see the Bowie’s pilot floating to the ground under a canopy.

When asked about this surprising turn of events, the test pilot for CMB Corporation merely winked and said ‘Are you kidding?  It was a shoo-in.”

CBM Corporation of Donegal Licensed its winner to Lockheed of Gibbs, as it was unable to complete all orders itself.  This competition and purchase set the pattern for future aerospace procurement in the Lyran Commonwealth.  Even centuries later, it is stated as an important day for the Lyran Air Forces, with one historian reported as saying “Imagine if Bowie got the contract?  Centuries later our entire heavy air force would have consisted of flying wings with more guns than sense.”

Code: [Select]
Type: SH-2 Shu
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Tonnage: 85
YIS: 2350
Cost: ~5,000,000

Equipment: Mass
Engine: 340 VOX         27
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust         9
Structural Integrity 8
Heat Sinks 10 0
Fuel 400 5
Cockpit 3
Armor Factor: 368 23
Armor
Value
Nose 128
Wings 90
Aft 60

Weapons and Ammo Location
3xAC/5 Nose 24
Ammo, AC/5 (60)         Nose 3

Quirks:
Easy to Pilot, Easy to Maintain, Atmospheric Flyer, Poor Cooling Jacket (Autocannon)


SH-2B Shu
Bomber/Strike Variant.  Removes 2 Autocannon and 2 Tons of Ammo.  Replaces with 18 Tons Cargo.  Equipping the Shu
with a large internal bomb bay forced several adjustments to the reaction control system and internal linkages, so that
the SH-2B became a bit of a hanger queen compared to its fighter cousins and lost its gentle and forgiving nature in the
air.
Quirks:  Internal Bomb Bay, Difficult to Maintain, Hard to Pilot
« Last Edit: 13 June 2018, 14:10:36 by marcussmythe »

truetanker

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #147 on: 12 June 2018, 17:15:59 »
Marian Hegemony: Budget $10M. Shipyard 1 Alphard

I'm restructuring the above to match American English. Better for me...

Marians are currently spending half their load on Mariany things...

Greasing the Patricians hands and working the systems that govern the Hegemony, while the Plebeians, middle-class, toil at making life easy for themselves with the various slaves doing the actual work!

Senate decreed the purchase of several Aquilla class Jumpships and Aerospace Fighter Squadrons. While these will take time to acquire, the Imperator has suggested that some of the fundings should go towards Foreign Intelligence gatherings.

The construction of a pair of Saturn Patrol Dropships should help with the incoming traffic, with a Squadron always on patrol. Currently a Friendly Envoy is on her way to the Taurian Concordat with hopes of a Reseach and Buying Technology survey.

(  >:D You all know me... I have something up my sleeve... )

Imperator Pi
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Smegish

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  • Posts: 445
Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #148 on: 12 June 2018, 18:10:42 »
Two late questions:
1) Is the Naval Laser AAA mode available right out of the gate, or is it a tech like bracketing to be discovered later?

2) Should we be posting our turn budgets openly, or PM'ing em to Mr GM? Would prevent all of us knowing exactly what everyone's fleet compositon is. Maybe the start of turn report includes the number of ships (but not specific #'s per class) and total tonnage of the fleet for each faction, with only that player and the GM knowing the real truth?

For the sake of keeping an even playing field, I'll post my budget openly -when its finished. Just a thought for the future.

Starfox1701

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  • Posts: 521
Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #149 on: 12 June 2018, 18:21:02 »
Nibbled to death by ducks? Londo would be so proud lol

 

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