Author Topic: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV  (Read 166869 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #570 on: 15 August 2018, 10:28:00 »
It's getting rather heated in here. Let's cool things off, please. C:-)
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #571 on: 15 August 2018, 15:00:08 »
Well, i just made some research in the Shattered Fortress book (and a little in FM:3145 and TRO:3150) and did a recount of the FWL (Tamarind)-MoC/Marian Hegemony war. From that, i made a preliminary butcher's list for the Marian Hegemony. Feel free to help in any thing i might be overlook. Also, in my personal opinion, i presumed that the loosing units retreat unless it is explicitly said that they are destroyed.

I Legio
Tertia Cohors - Destroyed in Illyria (November 3150)

II Legio
Prima Cohors - Damaged after retreating from Hazeldan (August 3150)
Secunda Cohors - Destroyed in Landfall (August 3150)
Tertia Cohors -
Quarta Cohors -
Quinta Cohors  -
(I presume that at least two of this Cohors were in Illyria (November 3150), and the other reinforced it when Prefect Kilgore reinforced the planet (early December 3150)
II Secunda Auxilia Legio - Destroyed in Landfall  (August 3150)
II Caelum Wing - Destroyed or damaged in Illyria (November 3150)

III Legio
Elements are destroyed in Huntington after their dropships are destroyed (August 3150)

IV Legio
I presume that the IV Legio´s Mech Cohors took some damage in their raids to Campoleone and Astrokaszy.
IV's Prima and Secunda Auxilia Legio took some damage in Ballalaba and retreated (to Horatious and/or Pompey? or Baccalieu?)

V Legio
Totally destroyed by Camacho's Caballeros in 3147. The number "5" is apparently cursed, isn't?

VI Legio
Again, after facing the Canopian counter attack in Marantha, Gambillion and the other canopian planets, i can see the mech cohors whit some damage.
VI Prima Auxilia Legio - Destroyed (October 3150)
VI Caelum Wing - Retreated? They downed a Markson´s Marauder dropship, but i presume they retreated after the Auxilia Legio was destroyed (October 3150)

Dragonslayers
This guys were a regiment at 55% in 3145, and they retreat after some combat from Saint Nicolas in August 3150. They retreated deeper into the Hegemony, or the Gibraltar island?

The Head Hunters
Now i think its the final nail in the Head Hunter coffin. They were a battalion at 80% in 3145, and the Camacho's Caballeros capture 2 companies in a nightime drop in early September 3150. Now, captured can be "you and you equipment are seized during the conflict" or "welcome to the dispossessed ranks". Ether way, they are, at best, at 1 company strengh.


In resume: We are seeing one destroyed Legio (the V), and two heavily damaged ones (II and III), plus a merc battalion out of combat. It could be worse to be sincere. Now, the thing is that the enemy in both fronts will have some logistical issues.
The canopians are way far from their friendly lines, so i can see them pillaging both Ballalaba and Islington, and retreating.
Now the Marik are trickier. The Fontaine´s taskforce is said to be composed of "regiments of mercenaries" and the 1st, 7th and 8th Tamarind Regulars, plus the Camacho's Caballeros, and we know that at least all or significant parts of that units are in Illyria to the end of 3150. We also know that elements of the III Legio clashed (and damaged) with elements of the 7th Tamarind Regulars in Tormentine in (probably) September 3150 (TRO 3150 Testudo entry). So, while they conquered all the planets connecting Illyria with the FWL, i presume that those planets are garrisoned with parts of those "regiments of mercenaries". It would be a shame that those planets suffered attacks from, shall we say, the I or IV Legios? The thing is, Illyria have to be a hot coal to hold, as Fontaine planned for a quick operation. And add the political pressure that Fontaine is getting from the FWL Parliament, with the internal tariff hurting the duchy's economy, plus the political fallout inside the neo-FWL.
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Minemech

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #572 on: 15 August 2018, 17:17:36 »
 Technically the Palatinate should be more defensible for the Free Worlds League than it could have ever been for the Marian Hegemony. Holding it helps secure Kendall from short range raids. Before taking the Palatinate, the Marians had secured the Lothian League. They no longer control that state, and will probably have lost considerable influence over it.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #573 on: 15 August 2018, 18:57:13 »
Technically the Palatinate should be more defensible for the Free Worlds League than it could have ever been for the Marian Hegemony. Holding it helps secure Kendall from short range raids. Before taking the Palatinate, the Marians had secured the Lothian League. They no longer control that state, and will probably have lost considerable influence over it.

 Yes, for the Free Worlds League. But right now this is Fontaine`s was, not the FWL. As i said, expell the invaders from worlds like Saint Nicolas, Huntington and/or Hazeldan, and the provision`s situation for the guys in Illyria looks more grim.

 Now the Lothians. They are a wild joker card. While they rebelled from Marian governance, they are still connected to them culturally, politically and economically. And in no place is said that Fontaine is trying to woo them. Remember that the Duke tough that this would be a short campaign.

 A final note: I know that most IC news report are propaganda for their faction, but welcoming population in Illyria? After almost one hundred years, following the Battletech logic™ Illyria would be "marianized" by this time, except for the usual minor resistance (see the Taurian examples, or more recent, the Phecda example).
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Minemech

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #574 on: 15 August 2018, 19:37:11 »
Yes, for the Free Worlds League. But right now this is Fontaine`s was, not the FWL. As i said, expell the invaders from worlds like Saint Nicolas, Huntington and/or Hazeldan, and the provision`s situation for the guys in Illyria looks more grim.

 Now the Lothians. They are a wild joker card. While they rebelled from Marian governance, they are still connected to them culturally, politically and economically. And in no place is said that Fontaine is trying to woo them. Remember that the Duke tough that this would be a short campaign.

 A final note: I know that most IC news report are propaganda for their faction, but welcoming population in Illyria? After almost one hundred years, following the Battletech logic™ Illyria would be "marianized" by this time, except for the usual minor resistance (see the Taurian examples, or more recent, the Phecda example).
The Illyrian Palatinate had excellent relations with the Free Worlds League throughout its history. I would not be surprised if League states maintained strong ties with the population--that is they maintained strong ties, both directly, and through SAFE. I am more surprised that this move does not have greater support, as part of what made the League hard to defend was the powerful Marian presence. The move simply made too much sense.



 
« Last Edit: 15 August 2018, 19:56:38 by Minemech »

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #575 on: 15 August 2018, 21:44:48 »
The Illyrian Palatinate had excellent relations with the Free Worlds League throughout its history. I would not be surprised if League states maintained strong ties with the population--that is they maintained strong ties, both directly, and through SAFE. I am more surprised that this move does not have greater support, as part of what made the League hard to defend was the powerful Marian presence. The move simply made too much sense.

Would not say "excellent relations". The Periphery 1ed says that it had "modest trade with the Free Worlds League". The Periphery 2ed goes a little more, saying that the Palatinate expanded his trade with the FWL during the 3040`s, but build stronger relation with the Lothian League, and during the first part of the 3050`s increased such trade, but that their other main trade partner were the Lothians. The funniest part is that the biggest injection of help they got was from the FedCom and the Draconis Combine to host a lot of Rasalhagian refugees.

I am sure that SAFE (be whatever one or the many SAFEs) had people in the former Palatinate worlds, and that they are surely connected to the few resistance groups (at least one in 3128 had 10 old mechs that got destroyed by the II Legio in Illyria), but the Palatinate got absorved into the Hegemony almost 90 years ago, and it is cannon that the Hegemony worked in integrating both the Illyrians and Lothians into it, heck, even influencing the independants arounf the Hegemony, and the Lothians after their revolution. Planet loyalty is a weird thing in Battletech, as it depends on the author, with planets resisting for decades, and other adapting quickly to their new masters.
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Minemech

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #576 on: 16 August 2018, 09:19:49 »
 I think that cash influx was to keep themselves from having to host the refugees.

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #577 on: 16 August 2018, 10:10:49 »
I think that cash influx was to keep themselves from having to host the refugees.

Yeap, the Illyrians were getting a lot of refugees, and both the FC and DC send the funds to keep them IN the Palatinate. This also allowed Administrator Wick to get more money to beef up their military in fear of posible Marian or Circinian invasion. It allowed him to build fortifications and housings to the workers, both native and rasalhaguians. The Palatinate fell nontheless. And that was almost 80 years ago. Also, Illyria is a nice world (except for the tainted atmosphere), i can see the Marian ferring lots of settlers there.
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Minemech

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #578 on: 16 August 2018, 10:26:05 »
 Periphery based roleplay games in the late 30th, early 31st century in that region of space are quite fun. You can end up in the oddest of places.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2018, 16:13:47 by Minemech »

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #579 on: 16 August 2018, 10:43:43 »
Periphery based roleplay in the late 30th, early 31st century in that region of space are quite fun. You can end up in the oddest of places.

That is why i fricking LOVE the Periphery. Its the oddest, and funniest, place of all the Battletech setting. Also gave your imagination way more territory to expand than the Inner Sphere.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #580 on: 16 August 2018, 18:06:10 »
 The Successor States can be very fun, but you have to know what to filter out of the novels. When well played, periphery powers can have surprising relations with individual planets within Successor States, and about--performing well may land you jobs related to those worlds, or even under Comstar, for its purposes.

truetanker

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #581 on: 04 September 2018, 17:41:40 »
What makes a modern 3150 Legio?

Like how many Cohorts to fill it out, they are suppose to be a combined arms unit. I know everybody has their own way of doing things, but what makes up atypical Legio? How many Infantry troopers to Mecha, Vehicle and Aerospace units in whole? What kind of transportation Jumper with what kind of Dropper would they use in this new era?

These things keep me warm at night!  >:D

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #582 on: 04 September 2018, 18:50:41 »
If it were my choice, I’d adopt a sort of clan paradigm, with mechs and BA in the main Legio, while Vees and PBI would be relegated to the Auxilia Legio.  3 Cohors of mechs, 2 of BA for the main Legio, 3 Cohors of Vees, 2 of PBI for the Auxilia.  And as many ASF as I could beg, borrow, or steal.  But I doubt any conform to that paradigm in canon.
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Weirdo

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #583 on: 05 September 2018, 09:26:22 »
It looks like the Marian ideal is a pure mech Legio, with vees, infantry, and whatnot in one or more Auxilia Legios. We still have zero information on how the Marians group their fighters.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #584 on: 05 September 2018, 11:33:45 »
So . . . Arkansas Warrior, want the role of Marius in reforming the legions?
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #585 on: 05 September 2018, 14:12:25 »
We still have zero information on how the Marians group their fighters.

Units of 10, I believe they call it an Ala .2 fighters per Air Maniple, 5 Maniple to wing.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #586 on: 05 September 2018, 15:04:31 »
Source? All I've ever been able to find is that they out their fighters in Alae, but nothing about numbers or organization.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #587 on: 05 September 2018, 20:43:40 »
Source? All I've ever been able to find is that they out their fighters in Alae, but nothing about numbers or organization.

FASA 1692 The Periphery 2ed, page 60, 2nd paragraph, 2nd column.

Contubernium: 2 ASF
Air Maniple: 10 ASF
Squadron: 50 ASF

The thing is, this goes against what Welshman said on 10 February 2014: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36976.msg862069.html#msg862069

Quote
Hello,

After a review of this, we wanted to provide an updated an fully fleshed out answer. This is also being moved to the Rules Forum for easy reference of others.


Contubernium(Squad): 1 Infantry Squad (10 Troopers), 1 BA Squad (5 BA Troopers), 1 'Mech, 1 Tank, 1 Aerospace
 
Century(Lance): 4-10 Infantry Squads, 5 BA Squads, 5 'Mechs, 5 Tanks (Usually 5 Contubernii, conventional infantry often different), 5 Aerospace
 
Maniple(Company): 8-20 Infantry Squads, 10 BA Squads, 10 'mechs, 10 Tanks (2 Centuries), 10 Aerospace
 
Cohort(Battalion): 24-60 Infantry Squads, 30 BA Squads, 30 'Mechs, 30 Tanks (3 Maniples), 30 Aerospace
 
Legion(Regiment): 72-300 Infantry Squads, 90-150 BA Squads, 90-150 'Mechs, 90-150 Tanks, 90-150 Aerospace (3-5 Cohorts)

Thank you,
Joel BC

And you still have the problem of what an "Alae" is. I would assume that is about a Cohort of ASF (30 ASF according to Welshman).

Edit: I forgot about the ASF squadron formation rules in Strategic Operations. The table in page 28 of that book put the Marian Squadron in 10 Fighters (to divide it in 5/5 or 6/4 for the squadron formation rules).
« Last Edit: 05 September 2018, 20:56:19 by Baldur Mekorig »
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Weirdo

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #588 on: 05 September 2018, 23:14:02 »
I have no idea how I missed that for four years...pretty odd setup, especially the five fighters to a century bit. Even the Clans have enough sense to deploy their birds in wing pairs. I'm going to imagine that a Century breaks into two parts in combat, with the two least experienced pilots both acting as wingmen to the commander(and learning from him the whole time), with the two intermediate pilots forming a traditional wing pair.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #589 on: 06 September 2018, 01:26:23 »
The organization names and their ranking are straight from the roman army. Curious that the Century is 5 contuberni and not 10. I guess that units of 10 mechs would have lookesd a little over the top :) But then a contubernium of 1 mech looks pretty solitary :P

Alae is how the cavalry was refered in the roman army.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #590 on: 06 September 2018, 06:52:35 »
Game balance, I suspect. Battletech is optimized for lance-on-lance games. Five-mech Stars are still feasible, as are six-unit Level IIs, but ten on one side is getting bulky, and means that most players of that faction would be forced to use portions of their fighting unit, rarely a whole one.
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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #591 on: 06 September 2018, 08:33:12 »
Game balance, I suspect. Battletech is optimized for lance-on-lance games. Five-mech Stars are still feasible, as are six-unit Level IIs, but ten on one side is getting bulky, and means that most players of that faction would be forced to use portions of their fighting unit, rarely a whole one.
I find company to be optimal, but battalion games can get clunky. Part of it comes down to the players. Some players can move both smartly and decisively, while others take their time. I think it is healthy for newer players to play a few company games on the board, because they force the players to think and act decisively. This has the potential to improve their performance in lance games. 

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #592 on: 06 September 2018, 11:54:10 »
The organization names and their ranking are straight from the roman army. Curious that the Century is 5 contuberni and not 10. I guess that units of 10 mechs would have lookesd a little over the top :) But then a contubernium of 1 mech looks pretty solitary :P

Alae is how the cavalry was refered in the roman army.

My own personal pet peeve is the Century and Maniple positions. I prefer Contubernium - Maniple - Century - Cohor - Legio.
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truetanker

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #593 on: 06 September 2018, 13:37:32 »
I have no idea how I missed that for four years...pretty odd setup, especially the five fighters to a century bit. Even the Clans have enough sense to deploy their birds in wing pairs. I'm going to imagine that a Century breaks into two parts in combat, with the two least experienced pilots both acting as wingmen to the commander(and learning from him the whole time), with the two intermediate pilots forming a traditional wing pair.

Except why wouldn't you not run a full Alae? You'd end up running a Cappy Triple and a standard Air Lance? Again,why? Take the Alae, and run it as a normal of 10. Save on the head-ache later on!

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #594 on: 06 September 2018, 16:05:14 »
Because it's clearly two Centuries. Even if you get even pairs in a full Maniple, single-Century deployments will always be a thing in a nation as small as the Hegemony.

Also, how big are your tabletop games that ten fighters is practical? In my local group TW games are usually a lance or so per player, and Alpha Strike fights usually top out at a company per. I'm pushing it with my force for this weekend's AS game at twenty units, only because ten if those are a Century of BA plus their transports. Ten fighters on one side is for convention-sized games.
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Elmoth

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #595 on: 06 September 2018, 16:17:00 »
Well, and contuberni were made of 8 soldiers, not 10, but hey.

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #596 on: 06 September 2018, 16:25:33 »
Mostly Company-ish of mixed units.

If I play clan it's usually a Binary with a Nova Star in it, sometimes we run a Point or two of Aero for funsies.

But if we have a campaign, we'd run more Battalion vs Regiment battles, where we get to hit and run against multiple Companies over a period of time.  Including Aero attacks and massed frontal assaults by fast hovers hitting the rear.

But generally, we play small...

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Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #597 on: 06 September 2018, 16:34:41 »
In which case you need to plan to run fighters in groups of less than ten. And per that list, our options below that are one and five.

We may not like them, but they are what they are.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

truetanker

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Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #598 on: 06 September 2018, 16:44:38 »
I either use them in full Alae or run VTOL support in full Century of 5.

I have them or not, either way I have airsupport in one form or another.

To complicated to run otherwise.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
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  • Posts: 40758
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV
« Reply #599 on: 06 September 2018, 19:36:20 »
Problem is, we still don't know what an Alae is. Is it an Aero Maniple, Cohort, Legion?
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll