Author Topic: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen  (Read 217848 times)

Sellsword

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #150 on: 25 February 2018, 14:30:18 »
Honestly, only thing that matters is that it will bring more people to the game and growing the fan base. BT can't survive selling stuff to the same group of 30-50 yo guys who already have a sizable BT collecting and other obligations.

I have ran into a alarming number of old hats online who seemingly rather see BT die with them than embrace the change needed to gain new player. While I commend them for supporting the game for all these years, they are now hurting the game

I’ll go so far as to say CGL is owned by and is catering to those old hats and is unable to embrace change that would be needed to drag this game into the 21st century. Of course what that illusive “change” is could take up a whole other thread and more.  The question for me is can CGL appease the nostalgia crowd that seems to be keeping the game barely above water while bringing in new players?  It’s a hard trick to pull off

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #151 on: 25 February 2018, 14:39:55 »
I would have to say that the creation of 'Alpha Strike' was a clear sign that the PTBs are willing to embrace change. Constant shouts of "DOOOOMMMMMM" from the fanbase might, however, sour them to it.

Maybe we should hold off of cries of 'foul' until after some of the new major products are released by the new LD. Give the new guy a chance before returning to the regularly scheduled cries of DOOOOMMMMM.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #152 on: 25 February 2018, 14:41:37 »
The future is wide open, CGL had said they were going publish whatever era they need.
I do think there still limited writing staff.  As long they like what their writing, know what their doing.
I'll be happy with new products if it were setpast or the future. 

I prefer both, but i'd like push this train along down the tracks to the future. 
If a player wish to play in certain era, that's cool too.  Just don't sabotage entire franchise for sake of trying make everyone do it.

Let's see new products!  I hope they release something before Gencon.  Summer still feels mighty long time from now!
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Maingunnery

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #153 on: 25 February 2018, 14:44:07 »
There is something I would like to see CGL make and sell in stores..... Battletech Pocket Edition.
As it something that actually fits in you pocket.
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Fear Factory

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #154 on: 25 February 2018, 14:48:07 »
I would have to say that the creation of 'Alpha Strike' was a clear sign that the PTBs are willing to embrace change. Constant shouts of "DOOOOMMMMMM" from the fanbase might, however, sour them to it.

Maybe we should hold off of cries of 'foul' until after some of the new major products are released by the new LD. Give the new guy a chance before returning to the regularly scheduled cries of DOOOOMMMMM.

I'm a long time BattleTech fan that did not cry foul.  Alpha Strike had all the right tools to pull new players in.  It felt like a modern system despite being a revamp of BattleForce 2.  They should have pushed Alpha Strike hard despite the gripe from the old base.  Yeah, the rules haven't changed much, but they're old and clunky.
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ColBosch

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #155 on: 25 February 2018, 14:56:10 »
There is something I would like to see CGL make and sell in stores..... Battletech Pocket Edition.
As it something that actually fits in you pocket.

I would love to see a return to the microgame format. I know they can't be sold for $3-$5 anymore, but I think a basic, $10 game that touts portability would be a strong addition to the line.

Fact.
Created hype doesn't help at all either, and at worst it makes things far worse.

Okay, y'all need to stop agreeing with me. It feels weird. :D

Honestly, only thing that matters is that it will bring more people to the game and growing the fan base. BT can't survive selling stuff to the same group of 30-50 yo guys who already have a sizable BT collecting and other obligations.

I have ran into a alarming number of old hats online who seemingly rather see BT die with them than embrace the change needed to gain new player. While I commend them for supporting the game for all these years, they are now hurting the game

This is a true thing. The reaction of folks to new ideas is stunning, as if someone is going to break into their houses and burn all their collection.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #156 on: 25 February 2018, 14:59:56 »
This is a true thing. The reaction of folks to new ideas is stunning, as if someone is going to break into their houses and burn all their collection.

I just saw more content.  Minis, rules, box sets, etc.  Something that, you know, we lack today.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #157 on: 25 February 2018, 15:05:00 »
There is something I would like to see CGL make and sell in stores..... Battletech Pocket Edition.
As it something that actually fits in you pocket.
You talking about Paper back media books? That's smallest i've seen. I purposely get those instead of these extra large size paperback books they've been publishing lately.  I can't fit them into my bag when i go to work and read on break.
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Sellsword

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #158 on: 25 February 2018, 15:13:50 »
I would have to say that the creation of 'Alpha Strike' was a clear sign that the PTBs are willing to embrace change. Constant shouts of "DOOOOMMMMMM" from the fanbase might, however, sour them to it.

Maybe we should hold off of cries of 'foul' until after some of the new major products are released by the new LD. Give the new guy a chance before returning to the regularly scwheduled cries of DOOOOMMMMM.

The first acts of the line developers have been to cancel supplemental material for alpha strike (the faction manuals) create basically a new 3025 tro and rulebook, design the classic mechs to look as close as they can to the orginals and bring back the old novels.  None of those actions seem to be progressive acts designed to bring in new players.  Everyone of those changes smacks of nostalgia to me.

In fairness they are bringing out new box set with revised miniatures that look fantastic (which I will buy) and new young adult novels are in the works.  Is this enough to make a difference in the fan base?  I hope so but I’m not counting on it.

Personally I think the battletech line needs a major shakeup in ruleset and licensee ownership. These are very risky things to do and neither may produce positive results or growth. However After 30+ years in this game I’d rather see some risks and changes happen to the line than see it regulated the the periphery of the gaming market. 

Admittedly it is easy for me as an outsider to say things like this since my livelihood doesn’t count on the sales, success or failure of the line.  I can’t say that CGL has any easy choices to make and I wish the new line developers luck. I’ll continue to buy product that CGL puts out as long as it interests me. Unfortunately less and less that is being produced is peaking my interest. What I won’t do is buy more battletech items just to keep the line alive.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #159 on: 25 February 2018, 15:34:59 »
You talking about Paper back media books? That's smallest i've seen. I purposely get those instead of these extra large size paperback books they've been publishing lately.  I can't fit them into my bag when i go to work and read on break.
Nope, think of 'Orge pocket edition' but with modern art.
Convenient for the stores and the players.
Cheap enough for players to use up and buy again.
Easy enough for CGL to keep in stores.
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Empyrus

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #160 on: 25 February 2018, 16:05:48 »
I would love to see a return to the microgame format. I know they can't be sold for $3-$5 anymore, but I think a basic, $10 game that touts portability would be a strong addition to the line.
Microgame? How'd that work?
Okay, y'all need to stop agreeing with me. It feels weird. :D
I've few very bad cases of getting hyped and end result being... disastrous. Had to agree on the hype part.
Amusingly those very cases are part of the reason i started paying more attention to BattleTech despite having been a fan at some level for a long time. Dropped bunch of video games so i filled that partially with BT.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #161 on: 25 February 2018, 16:46:23 »
The first acts of the line developers have been to cancel supplemental material for alpha strike (the faction manuals) create basically a new 3025 tro and rulebook, design the classic mechs to look as close as they can to the orginals and bring back the old novels.  None of those actions seem to be progressive acts designed to bring in new players.  Everyone of those changes smacks of nostalgia to me.

You are confusing two of those things . . .

First, the TRO Succession Wars PROBABLY had plans to include all the Classic art as teaser for the box sets- but IMO from what cannot be said is that the whole HG thing derailed the intended product.  And I think a lot of our lack of product at present has to do with the HG lawsuit derailing the 3 or 5 year plan since BMM, TRO Succession Wars and new Box Sets would have been a soft relaunch.

Second, the release of the novels as epubs is not 'nostalgia' -its cash flow, for whatever trickle makes its way to CGL.  It would also help feed what would have been a interesting product schedule of a most novels, Classic box set, TRO SW, BMM and IWM metal Classic releases.  The release of the novels also did a nice thing for brand awareness- I put Battletech in Kindle and I get the page filled with novels with new art covers instead of old MW novels and the folks selling narratives of their tabletop/RP campaigns in violation of copyright/trademark.
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Sellsword

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #162 on: 25 February 2018, 18:24:15 »
You are confusing two of those things . . .

First, the TRO Succession Wars PROBABLY had plans to include all the Classic art as teaser for the box sets- but IMO from what cannot be said is that the whole HG thing derailed the intended product.  And I think a lot of our lack of product at present has to do with the HG lawsuit derailing the 3 or 5 year plan since BMM, TRO Succession Wars and new Box Sets would have been a soft relaunch.

Second, the release of the novels as epubs is not 'nostalgia' -its cash flow, for whatever trickle makes its way to CGL.  It would also help feed what would have been a interesting product schedule of a most novels, Classic box set, TRO SW, BMM and IWM metal Classic releases.  The release of the novels also did a nice thing for brand awareness- I put Battletech in Kindle and I get the page filled with novels with new art covers instead of old MW novels and the folks selling narratives of their tabletop/RP campaigns in violation of copyright/trademark.

I can’t argue either of your points. In fact I think you are correct in your assessment of CGLs plan. My problem is basing the marketing plan on classic battlemech designs. A new player doesn’t care about the classics.  They don’t care about the lawsuits or the amount of time, money or effort spent in recreating the images. They just want to see something cool. CGL could have based a 5 year plan on all news mechs.  The unseen were only present in what maybe 10 years of real world time.  Most of the time the game hasn’t even had the images of those mechs.  Why take the chance for designs that existed less than 1/3 of Battletech’s history?  It is more than time for people to move on.  This obsession with the classics/unseen is hurting the development/advancement of the game.

As far as the novels are concerned if bringing back the old novels generates money and new players then that is great! But again, I don’t imagine that decision was based about getting new players into the game.  If I’m wrong then I’m wrong.  I think the young adult line is the attempt to bring in new blood. I don’t know enough about kindle but if someone had never bought any battletech books before, would the novels show up in their “feed”?

It just feels to me like CGL has spent and is spending a lot of money rehashing the past instead of looking toward the future.
« Last Edit: 25 February 2018, 18:31:50 by Sellsword »

Colt Ward

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #163 on: 25 February 2018, 19:12:24 »
Maybe, what I meant was when they searched.  Releasing the novels as e-pubs would have taken very little effort on the part of CGL IMO since its not new fiction.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #164 on: 25 February 2018, 21:26:25 »
Considering how BT hasn't had any new novels in awhile... Start with getting the old stuff out so readers know BT isn't dead. Also lets newer authors who have been influenced by say Stackpole, to find a new market to write for. New books take time to write and edit so something should fill the void until then. Plus, how many of us still have the old novels? I don't, I have no idea where they went along with my Man Kzin Wars books. Have a feeling one of my ex-wives did something with em...

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #165 on: 25 February 2018, 22:12:20 »
I have most of the 3050 and on novels but that was ebay and used bookstores filling in gaps since I started buying them during the FCCW.  But I use my kindle now nearly exclusively simply b/c I can load a book box sized set of novels and have it with me on the go.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #166 on: 26 February 2018, 00:07:11 »
Before releasing digital versions of the old FASA-era novels, the market for those books was solely resellers. Meaning that the contemporary franchise gained no profits from the old novels until CGL/IMR acquired the rights to the publish them digitally. Just like how CGL gains zero profit right now from any Battlecorps stories that aren't in the anthologies. And since a reboot is too hard to sell or enact, the franchise is still going to be propped-up on the old (and somewhat dated) novels. And so they remain integral to the franchise. New William Keith novels set in the 3rd Succession War may actually help alleviate some of the reliance on the old novels if they can create a new jumping off point to the universe.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #167 on: 26 February 2018, 00:23:44 »
Good point, especially if as hinted at we get scenario information that allows you to replay some of those 3SW moments using the two box sets.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #168 on: 26 February 2018, 01:33:47 »
About a micro-game, I think, to a certain extent, that BMM and TRO:SW have that covered. Additionally I feel that TRO:SW was aimed at slimming the 'Mech lineup going forward.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #169 on: 26 February 2018, 03:10:09 »
About a micro-game, I think, to a certain extent, that BMM and TRO:SW have that covered. Additionally I feel that TRO:SW was aimed at slimming the 'Mech lineup going forward.

Two big books do not a micro-format game make. A microgame should be small and inexpensive. The classic model, as pioneered by MetaGaming Concepts in the late 70s, is a 4"x7" bag or box containing a 16 or 24-page rulebook, a 8"x14" map, and a sheet of about 110 small counters. The original price was around $3-4, but modern versions would have to adjust for inflation and be closer to $10. The very first MicroGame (MetaGaming liked camel caps, too) was Ogre, but there were many more from a bunch of companies. In fact, even games that today are viewed as incredible rules bloats like Star Fleet Battles and Car Wars started as micro-format games.

I bet I could come up with an Alpha Strike-based rules set that, including a basic selection of 'Mechs and scenarios, would clock in at 24 half-sized pages. I might even be able to finagle the maps enough to include the equivalent of two standard BattleTech maps, which would be enough space for company-sized battles. 110 counters is more than enough to include a variety of units, with multiples included.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #170 on: 26 February 2018, 07:21:17 »
BT can't survive selling stuff to the same group of 30-50 yo guys who already have a sizable BT collecting and other obligations.

Accurate.

I have ran into a alarming number of old hats online who seemingly rather see BT die with them than embrace the change needed to gain new player. While I commend them for supporting the game for all these years, they are now hurting the game

Highly accurate. And don't underestimate the effect that the loudest voices can have on the decision-making process.

Of course what that illusive “change” is could take up a whole other thread and more.

And has, many times.

The question for me is can CGL appease the nostalgia crowd that seems to be keeping the game barely above water while bringing in new players?

One of those things brings in money to allow continued business, and the other doesn't. People-pleasing and revenue-generation aren't mutually exclusive, but they can't be prioritized in that order.

I do think there still limited writing staff.

This is not the bottleneck. (And isn't really true.)

The first acts of the line developers have been to cancel supplemental material for alpha strike (the faction manuals) create basically a new 3025 tro and rulebook, design the classic mechs to look as close as they can to the orginals and bring back the old novels.

You're conflating a whole bunch of things.

BattleMech Manual and TRO Succession Wars were in the works before Brent and Ray were appointed. BMM in particular was (as I understand it) the hard work of a freelance contributor that management got behind, not an effort that derived from management of that time.

Likewise, the Classics redesign has been an effort that goes back years, before the Brent-Ray era of leadership. Though both played a role in that process, they didn't initiate it when they took over. Same for the Legends series of e-pubs, that's been going for a little while now.

I've few very bad cases of getting hyped and end result being... disastrous

I think I understand: you're saying that you feel hype for a particular BT product over-promised and under-delivered? It's definitely a bad move to market something as being more than it is. But the "under-delivered" part is always going to be subjective.

And I think a lot of our lack of product at present has to do with the HG lawsuit derailing the 3 or 5 year plan since BMM, TRO Succession Wars and new Box Sets would have been a soft relaunch.

I've seen this idea starting to get into the water supply around here, and to the best of my knowledge, it's simply not true.

Products are still in the pipeline, with every intention of releasing them later this year. I've worked on several of them, and on very quick turn-around deadlines--not a situation at ALL of "go ahead and do the work, but we'll see whether we can put them out." More like, "can you get this done by the end of the weekend so we can keep things moving."

I understand why people think this. Post hoc ergo propter hoc; there's a lawsuit, we haven't seen anything new in a little while, therefore... But my personal experience has been that there's a lot going on--it just needs to be communicated. I'm hoping to work on that, too.

It is more than time for people to move on.  This obsession with the classics/unseen is hurting the development/advancement of the game.

Only my own opinion, but I'm absolutely with you here. It's a fixation for sure.

Additionally I feel that TRO:SW was aimed at slimming the 'Mech lineup going forward.

It was aimed at being a companion of some kind to the BattleMech Manual. I'm not sure how any product, especially one set in the SW era, could ever "slim the lineup" given how many TROs and XTROs are out there.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #171 on: 26 February 2018, 07:44:35 »
Can't speak for any other 30-50 y.o. fans of the game, but I'm A-OK with any kind of rules revamp, slimming, reorganization or rewriting the developers feel is necessary. A soft reboot to the 3025 era make sense to me (i.e. not to rewrite the timeline, but publish introductory material in this time period), for I find the current setting (circa 3145) perhaps a touch overly complex and confusing, even for a long-time fan like me, and challenging to explain to a beginner.

As I tried to ask earlier, I'm interested to hear more about the plans for fiction. I'd be even more interested if there was I way I could contribute, now that BattleCorps is gone, and I'm left, in the charitable words of another poster, with my copyright-infringing fan fiction.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #172 on: 26 February 2018, 08:23:52 »
I am chomping at the bit, like most here, for new products and will admit to being a bit whiney about it.   ;D

That said, if we get the close to the Dark Age era and the beginning of a new IlClan era, I will be happy.  New books are coming, new novels are coming, new minis are coming, new box sets are coming and more.  Just gotta be patient a little while longer...even though it sucks ;)  Maybe throw us a Touring the Stars?  LOL

If these new products don't appear, then I will be all DDOOOOMMMM!!!  Until then running my New Wessex campaign involving 240 BattleMechs.  Took our an entire Steiner Assault Lance last week.  Glory to the Dragon!

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #173 on: 26 February 2018, 08:36:30 »
I think I understand: you're saying that you feel hype for a particular BT product over-promised and under-delivered? It's definitely a bad move to market something as being more than it is. But the "under-delivered" part is always going to be subjective.
I wasn't actually talking about BattleTech (rather a bunch of video games) BUT the danger for over-promise and under-deliver is always there, regardless of franchise, genre or media. Often it seems the over-promise is done by marketing though (in video game industry), rather than developers themselves but that is perhaps driven by heavy competition.

There actually has been no major story-line releases while i've been "active" BT fan (about 4 years) (i don't count Succession Wars historicals account of them merely filling in details as i see them, and in any case both were very satisfactory). Nor any over-promising, though it seems some things were announced too early given that they've been delayed in favor of others. Early reveals can be problematic, maybe; i've noticed that video game industry has been moving toward shorter announcement and release cycle. But perhaps that doesn't really apply to tabletop games? Still, it is somewhat frustrating to know there's definitively interesting stuff in the works but no idea when one should be expecting them, or if one should be expecting them at all.

The closest thing to fail has been the Combat Manual line, but it wasn't actually over-hyped or anything, it did exactly what it was clearly implied to do and what i expected from it. Only, it seems my collection will be stuck to two parts...

My current worry is really fatigue. Need a closure to current story, and it seems to be slipping further away and away. The effect sorta opposite of hype: losing interest. Though i doubt that will make me skip things, i'll just get grumpy while waiting.
« Last Edit: 26 February 2018, 08:39:19 by Empyrus »

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #174 on: 26 February 2018, 09:59:33 »
Two big books do not a micro-format game make. A microgame should be small and inexpensive. The classic model, as pioneered by MetaGaming Concepts in the late 70s, is a 4"x7" bag or box containing a 16 or 24-page rulebook, a 8"x14" map, and a sheet of about 110 small counters. The original price was around $3-4, but modern versions would have to adjust for inflation and be closer to $10. The very first MicroGame (MetaGaming liked camel caps, too) was Ogre, but there were many more from a bunch of companies. In fact, even games that today are viewed as incredible rules bloats like Star Fleet Battles and Car Wars started as micro-format games.

I bet I could come up with an Alpha Strike-based rules set that, including a basic selection of 'Mechs and scenarios, would clock in at 24 half-sized pages. I might even be able to finagle the maps enough to include the equivalent of two standard BattleTech maps, which would be enough space for company-sized battles. 110 counters is more than enough to include a variety of units, with multiples included.

That would be an interesting challenge. Build a "BattleTech Boxed Set" that can fit into an Altoids tin. Minis are not required, but dice and mapsheets are.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #175 on: 26 February 2018, 11:19:21 »
That would be an interesting challenge. Build a "BattleTech Boxed Set" that can fit into an Altoids tin. Minis are not required, but dice and mapsheets are.

You, the player would have to supply the dice, and pencil, if I recall the micro-game format correctly.



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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #176 on: 26 February 2018, 11:28:18 »
A friend of mine scored on a intact 3rd Edition Box set for 20 box at a Con.  With plastech miniatures and everything it came with it. Must been lost in closet somewhere.  It seems so simple, now a set 24 plastic minis causes insane amount in comparison to day.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #177 on: 26 February 2018, 11:35:34 »
Two big books do not a micro-format game make. A microgame should be small and inexpensive. The classic model, as pioneered by MetaGaming Concepts in the late 70s, is a 4"x7" bag or box containing a 16 or 24-page rulebook, a 8"x14" map, and a sheet of about 110 small counters. The original price was around $3-4, but modern versions would have to adjust for inflation and be closer to $10. The very first MicroGame (MetaGaming liked camel caps, too) was Ogre, but there were many more from a bunch of companies. In fact, even games that today are viewed as incredible rules bloats like Star Fleet Battles and Car Wars started as micro-format games.

I bet I could come up with an Alpha Strike-based rules set that, including a basic selection of 'Mechs and scenarios, would clock in at 24 half-sized pages. I might even be able to finagle the maps enough to include the equivalent of two standard BattleTech maps, which would be enough space for company-sized battles. 110 counters is more than enough to include a variety of units, with multiples included.

And that's pretty much what the $20 "Beginner's Box" is supposed to be...(Rules, a map, two minis...)

Honestly in today's market, that's a close as anyone's going to get to that concept.

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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #178 on: 26 February 2018, 11:47:32 »
That would be an interesting challenge. Build a "BattleTech Boxed Set" that can fit into an Altoids tin. Minis are not required, but dice and mapsheets are.

Any of the quickstarts?  They have maps/counters/rules/record sheets and/or unit cards.
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Re: New and Upcoming Releases Volume XII: Baker's Dozen
« Reply #179 on: 26 February 2018, 11:54:14 »
And that's pretty much what the $20 "Beginner's Box" is supposed to be...(Rules, a map, two minis...)

Honestly in today's market, that's a close as anyone's going to get to that concept.
I wish they'd included cardstock  punch outs to the additional 2 plastic minis.  That wont satisfy someone who wants more.
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