Author Topic: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts  (Read 6694 times)

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
I have a project with some very small/light/narrow parts which have snapped off and need to be re-attached or replacements fitted.

I have my trust pin-vice/hand-drill and a very thin bit and someold BT ariels.

I know my way around bigger parts, but i've nver been great at the smalelr ones. Any advice to up (down?) my game?

Thanks for your time.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

pixelgeek

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 397
    • My blog
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #1 on: 19 July 2019, 19:19:15 »
Instead of pinning it try using green stuff. I've never had any luck pinning small parts. Roll a small ball of green stuff, put a dot of crazy glue on the largest surface, press the green stuff into it and then repeat with the small surface.

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #2 on: 19 July 2019, 23:20:16 »
Instead of pinning it try using green stuff. I've never had any luck pinning small parts. Roll a small ball of green stuff, put a dot of crazy glue on the largest surface, press the green stuff into it and then repeat with the small surface.

Funny you say that...I HAVE greenstuff and I need to use it somewhere else...Never considered this.

So the greenstuff acts like some kind of super-adhesive with the glue? How does this work?
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Cazaril

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 968
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #3 on: 20 July 2019, 11:16:42 »
How does this work?

No offense, but the short answer is "poorly"...

Green stuff isn't going to hold your part any better than your favorite flavor of cyanoacrylate adhesive... One good hit and you will end up with two pieces (one, after you misplace the broken piece somewhere) and a messed up paint job (assuming you keep track of the part long enough to try and repair it.

There is a good reason so many people pin stuff; it works.

I've had two miniatures take dives off of the same 5 foot height shelf and while glue and green stuff separate, the pins hold the part in place... Granted, I've needed to re-glue the joint, but if all I was using was an adhesive I'd probably still be looking for the parts.

So how do you pin an extremely thin piece?

You've got a good start with a pin vise and the old aerial wire...

Next, check the part you want to join. Is the wire at least a little thinner than the part? If not, this will never work... (Note: I can't remember if the old aerial wire is .015 (.38mm) or .020 (.51mm). If it is .020, than you can get some .015 and you might still be able to pin it. If it IS .015, I've never seen anything thinner... Also, when asking for it at a hobby shop, it is sometimes referred to as "Music Wire").

Assuming you have enough to work with, do you have a Dremel and a sanding wheel? If so, run it along the outer edge of the tip of the wire to file down any burrs from cutting. I like to go a step further and make the tip into a wedge. That way when you insert the wire into the hole and add a little pressure, it will bite in and keep the part from rotating (rotation over the axis of the wire will break your glue's bound faster than a blow).

Next, I would suggest prepping both parts. Clean up the edges you plan to join with a light sanding on the outer edge to remove any burrs and then lightly sand the two edges you will be drilling into to.

Now, go find a needle, nail, finely pointed tool, and make a slight indent where you plan to drill. This starter hole will keep your drill bit from dancing across the top of your already too little surface. And the filed down shiny surface that you did during prep will make it easier to see.

Now carefully drill... Note: with super thin drills like a #78 (.016) or #76 (.020), they have a bad habit of breaking and leaving the hardened head behind buried in your work. It normally happens when the slag (whatever drill debris is called) clogs the drill head and as you are turning the drill it gets fractionally bigger and as you turn it more you snap it off... To avoid this, I remove the drill after a couple of turns and clean the slag out and then drill a little more... This is more necessary the deeper you go.

Once you have the first side done, then line up where the second hole should be and do the other side...

When pinning a part, the deeper you can go the better (as the added wire will increase the strength of the repair), but the deeper you go the more chance you will break the drill bit.

After both sides are drilled, glue in your wire...

And now is the time for green stuff... Not only will it help you hide the repair, the sticky nature of it will help hold the part together, because every little bit helps.

If you have a hobby vise, those come in handy, but I wouldn't recommend buying one unless you plan to do a lot of reposing/bashing.

Caz
« Last Edit: 20 July 2019, 11:18:49 by Cazaril »

pixelgeek

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 397
    • My blog
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #4 on: 20 July 2019, 12:05:18 »
No offense, but the short answer is "poorly"...

Some of us suffer from Hot Dog Fingers and need alternatives when it comes to small parts.  :))

If the OP can manage to follow your tips then its a better alternative but I've never had any luck pinning small parts. Especially when they are from a location that has broken.

There is a good reason so many people pin stuff; it works.

Totally does. He has some good tips. If that doesn't work though...

pixelgeek

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 397
    • My blog
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #5 on: 20 July 2019, 12:07:15 »
So the greenstuff acts like some kind of super-adhesive with the glue?

No. The glue keep the GS in place until it cures. Its just standard GS but if the part is small then I find (YMMV) tha tit is simpler for me to use GS instead of trying to pin

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #6 on: 20 July 2019, 14:06:00 »
  When using a drill, especially fine, brittle bits on soft metals, the metals cling to the bit, so I use a light lubricant, like machine oil to make the work easier to keep clear of debris. If you have to make a deep hole, drill only a little at a time and apply oil often so the bit doesn't get stuck. Drill a little, reverse rotation, pull out, add more oil. Once you're finished, using acetone or dish washing liquid to remove the oil will prepare you for your next work.

  For pinning, I have a selection of paper clips that I trim to order. A note: Due to the nature of steel in contact with non-ferrous metal, steel pins will rust over time. I found brass paper clips and you may substitute brass or copper wire found in craft shops for pins and even antennas.

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #7 on: 20 July 2019, 18:53:10 »
...check the part you want to join. Is the wire at least a little thinner than the part? If not, this will never work... (Note: I can't remember if the old aerial wire is .015 (.38mm) or .020 (.51mm). If it is .020, than you can get some .015 and you might still be able to pin it. If it IS .015, I've never seen anything thinner... Also, when asking for it at a hobby shop, it is sometimes referred to as "Music Wire").

it looks about 3-4 times as wide as the wire I plan to use.

Assuming you have enough to work with, do you have a Dremel and a sanding wheel? If so, run it along the outer edge of the tip of the wire to file down any burrs from cutting. I like to go a step further and make the tip into a wedge. That way when you insert the wire into the hole and add a little pressure, it will bite in and keep the part from rotating (rotation over the axis of the wire will break your glue's bound faster than a blow).

I have a dremel. This sounds like a great time to wear eye protection.

Next, I would suggest prepping both parts. Clean up the edges you plan to join with a light sanding on the outer edge to remove any burrs and then lightly sand the two edges you will be drilling into to.

Now, go find a needle, nail, finely pointed tool, and make a slight indent where you plan to drill. This starter hole will keep your drill bit from dancing across the top of your already too little surface. And the filed down shiny surface that you did during prep will make it easier to see.

This is really good stuff and I am feeling more confident about this now.

Once you have the first side done, then line up where the second hole should be and do the other side...

What do you think of inserting the wire at this point and using that to mark the other part?


And now is the time for green stuff... Not only will it help you hide the repair, the sticky nature of it will help hold the part together, because every little bit helps.

No problem; I needed it for something else anyways.

If you have a hobby vise, those come in handy, but I wouldn't recommend buying one unless you plan to do a lot of reposing/bashing.

Caz

I do a lot of drilling and pinning, but I have never found a vice (if I know what you mean) that wasn't a piece of expensive junk. We are talking about the things with the articulated arms, toothed  grippers and usually a magnifying glass, right?

No. The glue keep the GS in place until it cures. Its just standard GS but if the part is small then I find (YMMV) tha tit is simpler for me to use GS instead of trying to pin

I never thought of using glue to get a soft material like this to stick, before.

  When using a drill, especially fine, brittle bits on soft metals, the metals cling to the bit, so I use a light lubricant, like machine oil to make the work easier to keep clear of debris. If you have to make a deep hole, drill only a little at a time and apply oil often so the bit doesn't get stuck. Drill a little, reverse rotation, pull out, add more oil. Once you're finished, using acetone or dish washing liquid to remove the oil will prepare you for your next work.

  For pinning, I have a selection of paper clips that I trim to order. A note: Due to the nature of steel in contact with non-ferrous metal, steel pins will rust over time. I found brass paper clips and you may substitute brass or copper wire found in craft shops for pins and even antennas.

I use copper wire the bigger parts, but this is the smallest part I have ever worked with.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Cazaril

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 968
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #8 on: 21 July 2019, 12:35:43 »
it looks about 3-4 times as wide as the wire I plan to use.

If that is the case, does it look like you have the room to get two pieces of wire side by side?

The reason I ask goes back to rotational forces (torque)... If you use one piece of wire on any pin job, the part (if hit) will try to rotate around that pin, and it won't take much to end up with a loose part. Two pins, shift the axis and allow the pins to absorb more of the shock. A hard enough hit will still pop the hold (like knocking a mini off a 5 foot height shelf), but something like tipping your mini over on the game board is less likely to do so.

I have a dremel. This sounds like a great time to wear eye protection.

Always a good idea... I'm not that cautious... I tend to apply the wire on the outward part of the disc (as the disc rotates, this is the point at which it would throw something away from you) and just let physics do it's job. Of course this is probably why I will lose an eye someday... Oh! And if you use the old aerial wire, don't be concerned when it creates sparks.

What do you think of inserting the wire at this point and using that to mark the other part?

That is my prefer method actually...

No problem; I needed it for something else anyways.

Don't get me wrong... Green Stuff is an important part of any repair. It is the best gap filler I've ever found, and it's sculpt-ability is important for hiding that the part was ever repaired... As I've relearned recently (much to my chagrin), prep matters and paint hides nothing. Any imperfection will draw the eye to it, and an imperfection perceived becomes hard to ignore... Maybe you plan to do a "table-top" paint job, but even still, what better time to practice then when it doesn't matter.


I do a lot of drilling and pinning, but I have never found a vice (if I know what you mean) that wasn't a piece of expensive junk. We are talking about the things with the articulated arms, toothed  grippers and usually a magnifying glass, right?

Oh good heavens no... Those things are, well let's just say "expensive junk" is both polite and kind... The only thing worth anything on those might be the clippy arm pieces, but even they will scare metal. I prefer wooden clothes pins to those (and I get a whole batch for a whole lot less)...

No, I am talking about a hobby vise.



This is just one type (mine doesn't use the suction cup base, but has a C-clamp type pieces that screws in to grab a table's edge)... The defining thing that makes a hobby vise more than just a regular vise is the rubber over the jaws. This protects your piece from being scared by the jaws and acts as a cushion to keep from deforming your part when you lock it in. This one I think is $30, but I've seen others that look just as usable for $15. It isn't a huge investment (figure $15 is equal to the price of one mini), but if you pin a lot it will save your finger tips.

I never thought of using glue to get a soft material like this to stick, before.

My only concern with that technique would be... Normally when working with Green Stuff it is best to keep it wet (dipping your fingers, or what ever tool you are working with. Even to the point that sometimes I work through a bead of water)... When water comes in contact with uncured super-glue, it almost instantly sets it. But by doing so, it not only can set in rough shapes, but it becomes brittle and less impact resistant.

I use copper wire the bigger parts, but this is the smallest part I have ever worked with.

I've never been a big fan of paper clips or any other wire that bends easily... Music wire at the same diameter as most paper clips requires two sets of pliers to bend and a fairly hefty pair of cutters to trim, while most paper clips you can bend with your hands (even the large ones). Cooper, I would think, bends even easier... Meanwhile, that unyielding strength of the music wire is how I manage to get many of my minis on one foot in a run position, instead of gravity slowly toppling them over (I had a Crab that did that once)... I will concede though that for the length of piece we all typically use, it may be negligible. Chalk it up to personal preference... I can't dispute the claim of rusting. All I can say is that I've never seen any signs of it on the rare occasion I've had to make a repair.

Caz

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #9 on: 21 July 2019, 21:47:57 »
I can't dispute the claim of rusting. All I can say is that I've never seen any signs of it on the rare occasion I've had to make a repair.
Caz
  I lived in Hawaii, so humid that steel would rust while you watched it. You also had to be careful what you used for filling bases, because the (huge, flying) roaches would eat papier mache, cardboard or white glue...

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #10 on: 23 July 2019, 22:13:35 »
If that is the case, does it look like you have the room to get two pieces of wire side by side?

I wish! These parts are claws and they narrow towards the tip.

That is my prefer method actually...

Nice!

Don't get me wrong... Green Stuff is an important part of any repair. It is the best gap filler I've ever found, and it's sculpt-ability is important for hiding that the part was ever repaired... As I've relearned recently (much to my chagrin), prep matters and paint hides nothing. Any imperfection will draw the eye to it, and an imperfection perceived becomes hard to ignore... Maybe you plan to do a "table-top" paint job, but even still, what better time to practice then when it doesn't matter.

I can't paint to save my life. That is a skill I have not yet had the confidence to improve. However; My putty techniques aren't bad from my model-kit days.

Oh good heavens no... Those things are, well let's just say "expensive junk" is both polite and kind... The only thing worth anything on those might be the clippy arm pieces, but even they will scare metal. I prefer wooden clothes pins to those (and I get a whole batch for a whole lot less)...

That actually makes me feel better. I always felt guilty that mine basically became a toy, gathered rust and fell apart and the parts got lost.

No, I am talking about a hobby vise.


Look at that! I have never seen such a thing! I'll have to see where I can get one. I like to shop local when possible.

I've never been a big fan of paper clips or any other wire that bends easily... Music wire at the same diameter as most paper clips requires two sets of pliers to bend and a fairly hefty pair of cutters to trim, while most paper clips you can bend with your hands (even the large ones). Cooper, I would think, bends even easier... Meanwhile, that unyielding strength of the music wire is how I manage to get many of my minis on one foot in a run position, instead of gravity slowly toppling them over (I had a Crab that did that once)... I will concede though that for the length of piece we all typically use, it may be negligible. Chalk it up to personal preference... I can't dispute the claim of rusting. All I can say is that I've never seen any signs of it on the rare occasion I've had to make a repair.

Caz

I'll have to check that out. You get it at music stores? I use guitar wire for other things, so I know where to go if that is the case.
  I lived in Hawaii, so humid that steel would rust while you watched it. You also had to be careful what you used for filling bases, because the (huge, flying) roaches would eat papier mache, cardboard or white glue...

I know/have known people like that
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Cazaril

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 968
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #11 on: 24 July 2019, 19:13:18 »
That actually makes me feel better. I always felt guilty that mine basically became a toy, gathered rust and fell apart and the parts got lost.

I think I have 2... And no idea where either of them are (and don't really care much).

Look at that! I have never seen such a thing! I'll have to see where I can get one. I like to shop local when possible.

Not sure where you are... In The States, Michael's or Hobby Lobby should have them (don't forget your 40% off coupon). HobbyTown if you have one. Northern Tools. Wal-Mart might even have them... Elsewhere in the world, local hobby shop?

I'll have to check that out. You get it at music stores? I use guitar wire for other things, so I know where to go if that is the case.

That is a good question... Too bad I don't have an equally good answer...

I don't go to music shops much because I am so musically un-inclined that I can barely play the radio... I do know that it is sometimes referred to as "Piano Wire", but much of the piano wire I see is coiled up. This stuff does not coil... I got mine in three foot lengths with 3-4 in a bundle. I picked up 0.015, 0.020, and 0.032 (mainly used for pinning, and the smaller two for antenna), as well as 0.047 and 0.055 (primarily used as rod to stabilize a 'Mech I've reposed on one foot or to lock the legs into the base so they can't move)... I purchased it at a local HobbyTown, but have no idea where else you might find it.

Caz

Valkerie

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2522
  • Gravity always wins.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #12 on: 28 July 2019, 21:21:37 »
The wire you speak of Caz, can be found at some hardware stores if they carry a "hobby" metal rack.  I do at my store and we have a full selection of the music wire.

And no, I don't know why it's called that either.  Never seen it on any musical instrument I can think of. ???
There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.   -Machiavelli

Greetings, Mechwarrior!  You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against...Oops, wrong universe.  -unknown SLDF Recruiter

Because overkill is underrated my friend.  -John "Hannibal" Smith

Unit/Scheme of the Month Master Index

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #13 on: 06 September 2019, 08:58:49 »
Update: I followed the advice from this thread and it worked great!

Thank you!

Skills+1

Confidence +1
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Lboydmsw

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 174
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #14 on: 09 January 2020, 08:41:52 »
it is really in your best interest to take time to get good at and learn to pin effectively.  There is no substitute for the added structure and durability that pinning adds to a model. 

However, if you just can seem to manage pinning, no matter the effort you put into it, consider using something like J-B weld or a metal epoxy (LaPage's if you can find it).  You'll waste a lot of it because it is not intended for so small a project but the adhesion these give for metal to metal projects is unparalleled. Slower dry times then super glue means you'll have to figure out how to keep the two pieces together while it dries but it is a durable bond (especially J-B weld).  I have used these products sparingly when I can figure out a way to pin something or don't have a pin vice drill bit small enough to do the job. I normally just position the mini so I can hold it in one hand and then go watch an episode of something on Netflix while it cures enough that I don't have to hold it anymore (so yes, I am holding it the whole time). 

Some metal epoxy will set within 10 minutes but isn't fully cured for hours so you can stop holding it after about those 10 minutes but should let it sit and fully cure before working with the model further.

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25570
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #15 on: 09 January 2020, 14:31:28 »
Just as a side note on pinning - I grabbed a roll of heavy-duty fuse wire when we changed our fusebox over for a smart unit, 15 years ago. That stuff is the best ... yes, it bends, but not when the pieces are joined together. And it lets me pin joints at an angle securely, then fill the gaps resulting. For consideration. The roll is still going strong ...
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37059
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #16 on: 09 January 2020, 18:17:25 »
Caz: with regard to piano wire, the lower notes use coiled wire to achieve the longer wavelengths necessary.  The higher notes have uncoiled wire.

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4067
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #17 on: 10 January 2020, 09:43:34 »
it is really in your best interest to take time to get good at and learn to pin effectively.  There is no substitute for the added structure and durability that pinning adds to a model. 

However, if you just can seem to manage pinning, no matter the effort you put into it, consider using something like J-B weld or a metal epoxy (LaPage's if you can find it).  You'll waste a lot of it because it is not intended for so small a project but the adhesion these give for metal to metal projects is unparalleled. Slower dry times then super glue means you'll have to figure out how to keep the two pieces together while it dries but it is a durable bond (especially J-B weld).  I have used these products sparingly when I can figure out a way to pin something or don't have a pin vice drill bit small enough to do the job. I normally just position the mini so I can hold it in one hand and then go watch an episode of something on Netflix while it cures enough that I don't have to hold it anymore (so yes, I am holding it the whole time). 

Some metal epoxy will set within 10 minutes but isn't fully cured for hours so you can stop holding it after about those 10 minutes but should let it sit and fully cure before working with the model further.

Thank you; I agree it has proven a useful skill over the years, but this latest project has been a whole other level. Looking forward to getting back to it.

Just as a side note on pinning - I grabbed a roll of heavy-duty fuse wire when we changed our fusebox over for a smart unit, 15 years ago. That stuff is the best ... yes, it bends, but not when the pieces are joined together. And it lets me pin joints at an angle securely, then fill the gaps resulting. For consideration. The roll is still going strong ...

I'll keep my eyes open for some. right now; I am using narrow copper wire for joints and trying the antenna for this project. With the new drill (finally) we shall see how it goes.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3036
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #18 on: 22 March 2020, 18:03:12 »
If it IS .015, I've never seen anything thinner... Also, when asking for it at a hobby shop, it is sometimes referred to as "Music Wire").


Tichy-Train .010 Phosphor Bronze 8'' Wire

Force of Nature

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 843
  • Battletech and Paintball. Life is good.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #19 on: 02 April 2020, 00:19:42 »
Here is what I use for pinning and the drill bits for pinning with. Got the wire, brass tubing and the drill bit set at Hobby Lobby (US). The drill bit set can be pricey, but is needed when pinning with wire this small for mechs.

Choose the size of the pinning rod to be used and the length per the instructions others have mentioned already. Then select a drill bit size at least one to two sizes larger than the wire size to be used for pinning. So if you are going to use .020 wire for pinning, use the .021, .022 or .024 drill bit sizes for the pin wire. ALWAYS return the drill bit back to the bit holder when you are done as the drill bits are fragile! (use a hand driver for the bits and take your time)

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13013
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #20 on: 24 April 2023, 17:40:52 »
So I have a question for the experts in this thread.

I recently had a Black Python fall & one of the tail fins snapped off.

The "tab" on the bottom of it doesn't even exist anymore if it ever did.

The Slot had some glue still in there but I've cleaned that out.

However this thing is so small that I can't get it to sit long enough for glue to cure.

I even took a drill & deepened the Slot a bit hoping the whole fin base would sort of set in there but that doesn't work.

I'm not sure how to Pin something or specifically how you could go about with this part.

Any suggestions?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3036
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #21 on: 24 April 2023, 18:20:38 »
Zip-kicker, aka super glue accelerator.

For when you need it to set RTFN.

Alternately, some fast setting superglue might be quick enough. 5-second takes a bit longer than 5 seconds, but not much.

Make sure your superglue is warm. Cold superglue can take forever. You don't want it hot, but room temperature is your friend for both mini and glue. Old superglue takes longer to set as well.

If you still want to pin it, head to the closest modeling store (type "train hobby" into Google maps and you'll probably get lucky), ask for a pin vice, fine brass rod, a few bits slightly bigger than the rod, and band-aids. You'll probably need the last, unfortunately, it's very easy to put a drill in your finger unless you get a soft jawed vise, and those can be a bit expensive.

Practice; thin fins can be hard for me, and I work with my hands for a living. Don't try to put your first hole ever in the fin.

Or head to the closest gw store and ask an old guy from the days of metal for help.
« Last Edit: 25 April 2023, 19:44:33 by Greatclub »

carlisimo

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 572
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #22 on: 24 April 2023, 19:15:28 »
Is there an Unseen miniature that I can't find a picture of online?  I don't know if the tail fin is thick enough for a small pin. 

If not, I'd try putting some tissue paper between the fin and the fuselage.  It'll give the superglue more surface area to grab onto.  Same effect as using green stuff between the two pieces being bonded.  Some cleanup is required in either case, but the result will be stronger than a joint glued normally. 

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13013
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
« Last Edit: 24 April 2023, 19:44:43 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1238
  • I paid for my Atlas by selling action figures.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #24 on: 25 April 2023, 11:08:25 »
I'd deliberately lose a bit of fin length by deepening the grooves. After scoring the bottom of the fin so that the glue makes a poor man's mortise/tenon joint, I'd use epoxy to attach the fins. Use Silly Putty or modeling clay to hold them in place for the 5-minute cure. At around 8-10 minutes (depending on room temperature) remove the putty and cut away any excess glue while it's at the "hard rubber" stage.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13013
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #25 on: 25 April 2023, 12:14:28 »
For someone that has never used silly putty.

How does that work if it is touching the super glue/epoxy?

Does it come off or does the glue keep some attached?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1238
  • I paid for my Atlas by selling action figures.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #26 on: 25 April 2023, 12:25:21 »
It usually comes off epoxy just fine. If it doesn't, no worry -- it's stuck to glue that squeezed out that I have to cut away anyway.
(I can't speak to its reaction to super glue, because I just hold bits in place for 10-30 seconds by hand.)

Incidentally, my main tip for gluing anything is this: Hold it for longer than you think. No, longer than that. Start a video on your phone/computer before gluing so you don't get impatient.

CranstonSnord

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 849
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #27 on: 25 April 2023, 14:22:33 »
Yeah, if you dry fit the pieces and they're tight enough to not move, you might not need to hold it too long. If you pin it, you might not need to hold it longer than 30 seconds, depending on your glue. In most circumstances, I hold it tight for 60 seconds, carefully let it go and see if anything moves, then hold for another 60 seconds if needed.

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13013
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Advice for drilling and pinning very small/narrow parts
« Reply #28 on: 25 April 2023, 17:03:47 »
Yeah, I've taken to holding for like 1/4 a TV episode if needed just to not have the arms come off when I didn't hold long enough.

This fin is a problem however because it is so dang small that its easy to get fingers into the glue & then pulling things apart shakes it loose.
I'm going to try that tissue paper idea after spending some more time drilling the slot out some more & if that doesn't work then look for some silly putty as an option.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo