Flipping arms doesn't count as rear firing?

[House Davie Merc]

I somehow wound up looking at units with rear firing weapons and I realized that I can't find
anything about mechs with flipping arms.

That's kind of the purpose for this type of mech.

Is there something in advanced rules for this or is there any plan to review it?

[MarauderD]

The thing you hear a lot around these parts is that AS is an abstraction of classic Battletech.  I would be shocked if there was any plan to review arm flipping.  Slippery slope and all that.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I don't mind the lack of arm flipping since it gives 'mechs with rear weapons something of a special ability.  It's a game that's made 'mechs like the Dragon 1N and Shadowhawk 2H more relevant on the board, after all =)

[theagent]

I don't mind the lack of arm flipping since it gives 'mechs with rear weapons something of a special ability.  It's a game that's made 'mechs like the Dragon 1N and Shadowhawk 2H more relevant on the board, after all =)

That would be about the only way that I would consider incorporating "arm flipping" into AS...but I don't remember if the "REAR" ability lets you fire in addition to making a forward attack or not.  If it's a separate attack, then I don't think you could incorporate it without adding a new ability.

[Charistoph]

That would be about the only way that I would consider incorporating "arm flipping" into AS...but I don't remember if the "REAR" ability lets you fire in addition to making a forward attack or not.  If it's a separate attack, then I don't think you could incorporate it without adding a new ability.

Hmm, let's see.

Combining Forward (or Turret) and Rearward Attacks: A
unit attempting a REAR attack may still deliver normal forwardfiring
attacks in the same turn, but its ability to do so is reduced. To
reflect this, if a unit makes an attack using the REAR special ability,
for every point of REAR damage it can inflict, its forward-arc (or
turret-based) damage for that turn must be reduced by the same
amount. This damage reduction is applied before the use of any
additional damage made possible by overheating.

So, it does drop it down, probably to account for the Heat of the Weaponry.

Honestly, if anything, it would probably be better set up as a Turret#/#/# ability.

[theagent]

Hmm, let's see.

So, it does drop it down, probably to account for the Heat of the Weaponry.

Honestly, if anything, it would probably be better set up as a Turret#/#/# ability.

Do the TURRET or REAR abilities add anything to a unit's PV?  I'm thinking whichever one doesn't boost PV is probably the better choice...because even though being able to flip arms is a good thing, having someone behind you (where they're doing extra damage) is a Very Bad Thing.

[Lanceman]

Do the TURRET or REAR abilities add anything to a unit's PV?  I'm thinking whichever one doesn't boost PV is probably the better choice...because even though being able to flip arms is a good thing, having someone behind you (where they're doing extra damage) is a Very Bad Thing.

Abilities are derived from unit stats, so they are already baked into the PV.

[Charistoph]

Do the TURRET or REAR abilities add anything to a unit's PV?  I'm thinking whichever one doesn't boost PV is probably the better choice...because even though being able to flip arms is a good thing, having someone behind you (where they're doing extra damage) is a Very Bad Thing.

Honestly, I don't know.  It should, honestly.  I don't have the Companion which details how PV is calculated.  I suppose I could run a tank in the latest MML and test it out.

Quick boot up and took a Patton which starts at 28 PV, and moved its AC and LRM to the Front run, and its PV stayed the same.  That could be a missing conversion point in MML, or something that just isn't covered in the Companion.

[theagent]

Honestly, I don't know.  It should, honestly.  I don't have the Companion which details how PV is calculated.  I suppose I could run a tank in the latest MML and test it out.

Quick boot up and took a Patton which starts at 28 PV, and moved its AC and LRM to the Front run, and its PV stayed the same.  That could be a missing conversion point in MML, or something that just isn't covered in the Companion.

Just checked, & neither trait gives a boost to PV.  Probably because TUR just means that some of your preexisting weapon damage is located in the turret & can be fired outside of the normal arc (but reduces any standard damage you do), so the damage has already been calculated.  For REAR, although the damage isn't included in the PV calculation or the regular damage, I'm guessing that the +1 penalty to fire to the rear is maybe the justification for not including it in the PV calculations.  Not to mention that I'm guessing that, since you have to have them directly behind you to use it, adding the extra 1-3 PV points for the ability (as I would imagine most of them are either REAR1 or REAR1/1) might not actually correspond to an actual increase in effectiveness on the playing area.

Still kind of torn about whether to include it, but I suppose you could call it a special-case version of REAR#/#/#, where you'd have to also track the additional specials of any arm-mounted weaponry specifically (just like what's done for TUR).  You'd still have the +1 penalty, & you could only use it against attackers whose damage is going to hit the rear hexside of your mini, but it would add a little something extra to the game...