Author Topic: Star Wars Rebels season four  (Read 14954 times)

monbvol

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #90 on: 07 March 2018, 16:07:26 »
It is still a little weird as presented.

I too find it a little out of character that the Emperor even he ordered Lothal to be a target of Death Star I wouldn't round up a bunch more Star Destroyers and make an example of the place from orbit.

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #91 on: 07 March 2018, 17:55:40 »
Is Lothal named in any new book? or anywhere in the new cannon? If not, we can assume the received a base delta zero from an imperial fleet between the end of Rebel and Rogue 1.

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #92 on: 07 March 2018, 18:01:26 »
Is Lothal named in any new book? or anywhere in the new cannon? If not, we can assume the received a base delta zero from an imperial fleet between the end of Rebel and Rogue 1.

I haven't seen the episode, but I believe the final episode includes a scene set after Endor. So, nope.

It rankles my evil overlord nerves to think that Lothal got away with their rebellion, but at the same time I suppose we have to acknowledge that Rebels is still primarily a kid's show, and cutting away to a scene of the Empire returning and laying waste to the planet, or even just occupying it again (haha, all your best efforts are pointless kids!) would be a bit much.
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Ruger

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #93 on: 07 March 2018, 19:06:25 »
Was it ever mentioned how much time there was between Rebels and Rogue One/Ep IV?
At one point I figured Rebels S1 was maybe 3 years or so before that point.

Rebels ran between 4 or 5 years BBY in season 1 to sometime around 1 (or so) BBY at the final battle with Thrawn...the epilogue was set some indeterminate time after the Battle of Endor...it had a couple time jumps of a few months between some of the seasons, but was otherwise about a year a season...

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #94 on: 07 March 2018, 19:22:34 »
The end of rebels (before the time jump epilogue) is very shortly before scariff (rogue one) according to filloni. So jedda would have been occurring around the same time or almost immediately afterwards.
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Charlie 6

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #95 on: 07 March 2018, 20:47:44 »
It rankles my evil overlord nerves to think that Lothal got away with their rebellion, but at the same time I suppose we have to acknowledge that Rebels is still primarily a kid's show, and cutting away to a scene of the Empire returning and laying waste to the planet, or even just occupying it again (haha, all your best efforts are pointless kids!) would be a bit much.
If I may amplify a bit:
Grand Moff Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.
Princess Leia Organa: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

I'd suggest that Leia's statement comes less from defiant bravado and more from an informed "ya been screwin' up, govnah" point of view.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #96 on: 07 March 2018, 23:05:15 »
It IS, indeed possible Lothal wasn't an isolated incident, and Leia's comment would definitely support that idea, even earlier seasons or Rebels have planets defying the Empire.  As large as the Empire is, they can't be everywhere, hence the Tarkin Doctrine's goal of making everyone too terrified to dare oppose the Empire.

Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #97 on: 08 March 2018, 00:33:13 »
Keep in mind two things.  Lothal wasnt part of the Alliance, it was just one world.  Second, up until Endor it seemed the Empire was winning.   To the Emperor, in his extreme arrogance, he was going to finish of the galaxy wide uprising (the more serious issue) soon and then coild move on to the individual worlds that slipped away during the war. 

Also, while on Lothal a former padawan had shown himself and trained his own apprentice, the Alliance had managed to bring a Jedi Master out of retirement.  And he had with him someone named Skywalker.  So yes, Lothal totally not a priority
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wantec

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #98 on: 08 March 2018, 08:04:19 »
With the Jedi Temple destroyed, he may have had no reason to go back to Lothal.
I thought there were TIE Defender factories on Lothal. Or were they housed more in the dome/ship? If they were in the dome, it might explain why you never see Defenders in the movies AND explain why Lothal didn't have a squadron of Star Destroyers returning to its doorstep
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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #99 on: 08 March 2018, 10:00:39 »
Yes, there were defenders on lothal. But they were just starting the line, and governor price blew up to fuel the factories needed to keep going. Then the finale happened.

Also the defender was thrawn's personal project, without him pushing it, and project stardust consuming resources, it withered
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wantec

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #100 on: 08 March 2018, 12:31:34 »
Eh, bit of a plot hole there in my mind. The fuel depot just stopped powering the factories as I understood, but the factories were still there. If they just needed more gas, it could work on a small-scale to support the Rebellion or at least supply the planetary defenders of Lothal.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #101 on: 08 March 2018, 13:06:45 »
That's why Thran was away from Lothal; he had to see the emperor to make his case for continuing the TIE Defender project.

monbvol

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #102 on: 08 March 2018, 21:56:16 »
And that part, not resuming TIE Defender production, of the plot makes the most sense.

That The Empire was never willing/able to make an example out of Lothal before Endor though?  That strikes me as not terribly consistent with what we know about the Emperor and the Empire.

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #103 on: 08 March 2018, 21:59:05 »
Well, there's what you'd like to do, and there's what you're able to do.  And when you've got a ragtag bunch of misfits that keeps blowing up your superweapons and warships, what you'd like to do often isn't what you're able to do.
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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #104 on: 08 March 2018, 23:30:12 »
Which leads to a problem that all presentations of Star Wars have had, they really haven't shown the Rebels to be that credible of a military power that they could have destroyed enough ships to keep the Empire from finding another dozen or so Star Destroyers and flattening Lothal.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #105 on: 08 March 2018, 23:34:38 »
Lothal had planetary shields though, so simply blasting it from orbit wouldn't have been effective enough.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #106 on: 08 March 2018, 23:35:57 »
Presumably, the Imperial ships weren't destroyed, probably not even meaningfully damaged.  They were just busy.  You don't have to even shoot at a ship to tie it up trying to catch you.

Lothal had planetary shields though, so simply blasting it from orbit wouldn't have been effective enough.
Those were in the Imperial Complex, which got blown up by the rebels.

monbvol

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #107 on: 09 March 2018, 00:37:09 »
And if they didn't chase Rebels and went for Lothal what exactly could stop them at that point?

glitterboy2098

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #108 on: 09 March 2018, 01:11:06 »
As was already stated before, he probably intended to go back but with the destruction of the DS1 it most likely stopped being a huge priority.  Ships that could have been used to bombard the planet were instead needed to combat the Rebels in other systems.
this season started a year before Scarif-Yavin. given all the stuff that happened in it.. the finale's events probably only occurred a few weeks to a few days before the events of Rogue One. so right at the time that an imperial fleet has been gathered to take back lothal.. it would have gotten the word to redirect to the systems around Scarif to help hunt down parts of the escaping rebel fleet. or been ordered to go to Tatooine to support Lord Vader.

then afterwards there was just too much other important stuff to devote the resources to.

Presumably, the Imperial ships weren't destroyed, probably not even meaningfully damaged.  They were just busy.  You don't have to even shoot at a ship to tie it up trying to catch you.
actually it is heavily implied that the Purgill destroyed the Blockade that was in orbit. though i suppose it was possible that they just heavily crippled it, and the survivors fled.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2018, 01:35:18 by glitterboy2098 »

BirdofPrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #109 on: 09 March 2018, 02:01:15 »
Sorry, I meant the fleet as a whole.  The purgill wrecked a few ISDs and another was crashed at Scarrif, but that's a paltry few ships in the Imperial Navy.  Definitely not enough to hamper operations, and in regular engagements with rebels (the usual, small skirmishes with a squadron of small rebel ships) during the entirerty of the rebellion, I can't imagine many Imperial ships were damaged or destroyed, but would certainly be tied up prosecuting those battles, and, after Yavin, chasing down the rebels was top priority.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2018, 02:03:47 by BirdofPrey »

monbvol

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #110 on: 09 March 2018, 03:31:07 »
Actually I would think that would make eliminating Lothal even more important.  Yavin was being evacuated and the rebels would at least need supply.  Lothal is pretty close to Yavin and is certainly rebel sympathetic.  Add in that it temporarily evicted the Empire and you just do not let that stand no matter what if you are the Emperor.  You have to make an example out of them.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #111 on: 09 March 2018, 05:08:09 »
Sorry, I meant the fleet as a whole.  The purgill wrecked a few ISDs and another was crashed at Scarrif, but that's a paltry few ships in the Imperial Navy.  Definitely not enough to hamper operations, and in regular engagements with rebels (the usual, small skirmishes with a squadron of small rebel ships) during the entirerty of the rebellion, I can't imagine many Imperial ships were damaged or destroyed, but would certainly be tied up prosecuting those battles, and, after Yavin, chasing down the rebels was top priority.
given the success at Scarif and Yavin*, and word getting otu about Lothal, it could be that you saw a major upswing in worlds actively opposing the Empire via insurgencies or outright uprisings. the imperial fleet may be huge, but the Galaxy they are trying to control is huger still.


*one of the reasons i've put forward for why Scarif and Yavin are the victories that kickstarted the serious rebellion, and not lothal, is how the Empire would have to respond to Scarfi and Yavin. basically, with Lothal they could pretend for the wider galaxy that it didn't happen. lothal didn't have much of a trade presence before the empire came, according to the supplementary materials, so the Empire could claim they relocated the factories and withdrew the garrison.. basically pretend the liberation didn't happen. at least for as long as they'd need to arrange some sort of real response (which got derailed by Scarif-Yavin and what followed)

At Scarif a major Imperial facility, a hub for nearly all data traffic through that half of the galaxy, was destroyed. and since the Empire cannot claim that it was an accident. and wouldn't want to admit Tarkin blew up their own facility for largely petty reasons, they would have to blame it on the rebel alliance, which had a fleet there.. but in the process they'd have to admit that not only did the rebels have a "great victory" but also that the rebellion is much larger, better equipped, and more organized than their propaganda had been telling the people. it was a lose-lose situation. and in the days that followed, you had Alderaan blown up by the Death Star as part of a demonstration about how powerful the empire is and to intimidate worlds into toeing the Imperial line..  an act that not only requires them to publicly admit they destroyed the world but also reveals that a weapon capable of destroying planets is in imperial hands. this would further undercut the propaganda the Empire uses to sell its totalitarianism to the people as being in their best interest. alternately, if they try to claim someone else built and used it, it makes the empire look weak and ineffective at protecting people. (geeze, tarkin is good at getting himself into those isn't he?) again ,a lose-lose situation. and no one is going to take the idea of the rebels building such a thing seriously, since there would only be one feasible group withthe resources to build such a thing. then cam Yavin, where the Rebel Alliance managed to destroy said superweapon. while the Empire would not be about to advertise that aspect, the fact is that the Rebellion would be.. and combined with the arrest of the senate and the other actions the Empire took in those few days, would make the rebel message very potent.

so basically, Scarif-Yavin is the pivotal moments because it put the Empire into a situation where no matter what it did.. the Empire came out looking terrible, and the Rebellion looking pretty good. Lothal on the other hand is a fairly minor side event.. the Rebel Alliance proper wasn't even involved, and if not for the timing, the Empire easily would have just steamrollered the world back under, or worse, rendered it uninhabitable with a "Base Delta Zero Initiative" (which given we had reference to that being used to 'liberate' 'another' world earlier i nthe show, this suggests that worlds rising up and kicking the empire off was fairly common.. it just usually didn't last.)

Lazarus Jaguar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #112 on: 09 March 2018, 06:02:58 »
Also keep in mind, Lothal seems to be in Tarkin's jurisdiction.  With his departure due to a slight case of death, his sucessor would have had a big mess to clean up outsidemof Lothal (the destruction of project atardust, the dissappearence of Thrawn's fleet, and other issues).  So the person who most likely would have been delegated the Lothal retaliation had enough on their plate one world got put on the back burner.  And with no Jedi remaining and no Alliance affiliation, the Emperor had no reason to assign an independant force like Vader's fleet to it. 

Also, the War only lasted 4 or 5 years past Yavin.  Given the size of the galaxy and all that was going on not all that long for something to be put off
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Kentares

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #113 on: 09 March 2018, 14:51:59 »
Also... FWIW keep in mind there was (up until the beginning of New Hope) the imperial senate ("The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away." - Tarkin) would give a token supervision of the Empire operations... I guess...

If so... the end of Rebels about Lothal is appropriate.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2018, 14:56:08 by Kentares »
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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #114 on: 11 March 2018, 14:13:03 »
The galaxy is large, and even the Empire can only project so much force. Otherwise a Rebellion could never have succeeded.

I...

Loved it.

It wasn't the BEST moment of the series - that was the final battle between Maul and Obi-Wan, or possibly the death flag moment of Kanan, or the battle between Ahsoka and Vader, or the subtle introduction of the Sith Code from Maul to Ezra, or... I'm going to stop now - but it was up there. I also paused the show the moment they talked about beaming out a signal on a frequency no one uses and told my wife, "Pergill." She didn't believe me, and look what it got her!

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #115 on: 22 April 2018, 16:58:55 »
Is Lothal named in any new book? or anywhere in the new cannon? If not, we can assume the received a base delta zero from an imperial fleet between the end of Rebel and Rogue 1.

Thawn --- it has the background and rise of Governor Price as a substory....

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Kentares

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #116 on: 23 April 2018, 10:19:12 »
Thawn --- it has the background and rise of Governor Price as a substory....

Craig

I guess he meant after the events in Rebels...
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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #117 on: 23 April 2018, 16:21:19 »
That's what I mean.  :)

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #118 on: 26 April 2018, 17:13:27 »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Star Wars Rebels season four
« Reply #119 on: 26 April 2018, 17:40:17 »
Interesting.
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