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Title: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 13:35:47
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/7/74/Centurion_OmniMech.jpg/232px-Centurion_OmniMech.jpg)
By your will!


Earlier, JadeHellbringer covered the ubiquitous Davion cannon fodder trooper 'Mech, the Centurion (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55037.0). (You may want to take a peek at the good article if you haven't already.) Today, our subject is the latest 'Mech in the Centurion line, the CN11-O series Centurion OmniMech.
this Centurion originates from the MechWarrior Dark Age where it gained new looks, and for reason or another got adopted as an OmniMech for standard BattleTech.

The Omni-Centurion, debuting in 3111, is manufactured by Corean Enterprises on New Avalon. The 'Mech is primarily used by the Federated Suns but also exported to their allies the Republic of the Sphere and Lyran Commonwealth, and sold to mercenaries. The Centurion also received new looks, with heavily stylized "helmet" and pauldrons, boosting its resemblance to its name sake, centurions of the ancient Rome.
Though it isn't stated, I suspect production on New Avalon has moved completely to this Omni Centurion, since it is more or less capable of doing everything the existing Centurion variants can, except perhaps having consistently high speed (not that the AFFS is lacking in this department). And, it might be replacing quite a lot of older medium 'Mechs with average speed (such as older Shadow Hawks and Enforcers, etc.) in the AFFS, moving to a single Omni platform simplifies logistics considerably.

The CN11-O is a 50-ton design like most of the previous Centurions, excepting the apparently stillborn CN10 series which were "up-tonned" to 55 tons. The internal structure is endo-steel as usual for post-Clan Invasion Centurions. The power plant is a Magna 250 XL fusion engine allowing for 86 KPH maximum speed, slower than most of the 31st century Centurions but faster than the original Centurion. These choices leave a lot of free weight and some of it was used to install a compact gyroscope, though its utility is slightly questionable when used with an XL-type fusion engine, and the space freed in the center torso isn't really utilized effectively. Covering all this is 9.5 tons of standard armor plate, the same StarGuard III nearly all Centurions use. 9.5 tons of armor is about 90% of the chassis maximum, and it is arranged quite evenly. Arms and side torsos share 16 points, legs and center torso have 20 and 21 points, respective, while all rear locations have 6 points. All of this leaves 24 tons of pod space, just under 50% of its weight, which is respectable for is weight class.
Finally, it seems the 'Mech is quite suitable for less skilled pilots, though how so isn't explained anywhere (Design Quirk: Easy to Pilot). Perhaps it has simple, intuitive controls, or maybe it has a tutorial program...

Configurations

The configurations for the Centurion share several features. All configurations carry CASE II with their ammo (typically in the right torso, often leading to a potential "torso bomb" due to amount of ammo there), and every configuration with a missile launcher has an Artemis IV module. Weapon placement follows a pattern: Main gun in the right arm, missiles in the left torso and secondary laser armament in the center torso. The left arm always has both lower and hand actuators. Exceptions will be noted.
Unfortunately the typical weapon placement makes the Centurion less than optimal for mechanized battle armor operations but the potential is there, and the Federated Suns is a big user of Battle Armor. Incidentally, carrying battle armor kind of addresses the anti-infantry shortcoming this design has in most of its configurations.

Prime
The primary configuration is very traditional. The main gun is an LB-10X autocannon, backed up by an LRM-10 and two ER medium lasers (one rear mounted). Both ammo consuming weapons have two tons of ammo. Very much a team player that works in just about any lance, and can deal with everything but conventional infantry. Good configuration when you don't know what you're going to meet.

A
The A configuration seems to be based on the CN9-D5. The main gun is an RAC/5 but instead of mere twin ER medium lasers, this one has an MML-9 and an ER medium. The RAC has the usual 3 tons of ammo, while the MML has only two, forcing the user to either pick standard load of each or doubling down on one type.

B
The B configuration is reminiscent of the CN9-AL in that its main gun is an energy weapon, the heavy PPC to be exact. For extra hilarity, the weapon is tied to a targeting computer. Backing up this is an MML-7 with two tons of ammo. For utility, a Guardian ECM suite is carried. An extra double heat sink is borderline pointless, allowing even running alpha strikes to cool down the 'Mech. No back-up lasers are carried which I find somewhat disappointing but I can't really complain about a heavy PPC and a targeting computer. A powerful configuration, blast holes to enemy 'Mechs and follow up with a SRM strike.

C
The C configuration is very much like the primary but trades the LB-10X for a plasma rifle, another excellent generalist weapon. The weight freed is used to install a C3 slave unit, a Guardian ECM and five jump jets, making this a rare (and surprising) jumping Centurion. Two tons of plasma is reasonable amount for most battles.
Compared to the primary configuration, this one loses a bit of range but the extra maneuverability and/or C3 link mitigate the loss of range. One must be careful about the heat though, a jumping alpha strike puts one at +9 heat. All these features do make this rather expensive in battle value though, some 400 points more than the primary config.

D
The D configuration is the odd-ball configuration (like the Templar III's B config). The main weapon is a hatchet, while the left arm carries a medium shield. An MML-9 is carried in the right torso rather than the left where its two-ton ammo bin is located. Center torso has a Beagle active probe and two ER medium lasers pointed front while the left torso has an ER small laser pointed rear. Finally, this configuration carries four jump jets.
All in all, this configuration is rather interesting. The shield reduces the 'Mech's speed to 64 KPH at most until it is destroyed but grants it considerable amount of extra durability if used correctly. Though the hatchet deals only 10 points of damage, melee weapons often have psychological impact and draw enemy fire. MMORPG players will recognize this as an archetypal "tank". Draw enemy attention and fire so that others can deal with the enemy freely. Ideal environments for this are canyons and cities, and the Beagle active probe makes sure ambushing this vanguard 'Mech is difficult.
As an aside, this configuration is certainly based on the second MWDA Centurion miniature which carries a hatchet and a shield.

E
The final configuration is the E. The E config is very simple: A Gauss rifle backed up by two ER medium lasers, both pointing front. The Gauss rifle has two tons of ammo. To make most of the Gauss rifle, this configuration also carries a boosted C3 slave, and for general utility or making the link effectively unbreakable, an Angel ECM suite.
Considering the existence of the B with its heavy PPC, I'm not terribly impressed by this configuration. Sure, it has a range advantage but a Gauss rifle and two ER medium lasers is simply somewhat boring in my opinion. Effective though, especially for boosted C3 units, and the Angel ECM certainly will come handy.

Closing thoughts

The 32nd century Centurion is pretty effective in all of its configurations. The base chassis is solid, offering good balance of endurance and speed though it doesn't excel at either. A team player that is unlikely to disappoint.
I wonder if the Easy to Pilot quirk is something of a meta-joke, since 5/8 medium 'Mech with a mix of weapons is something most players probably have used since the beginning of BattleTech (consider the 55-ton trio). Literally easy to pilot...
Looking at TRO3146 Federated Suns, the book's 'Mech content provide the AFFS very solid core for 'Mech companies (the only real omissions being C3 master platforms and a proper scout with high speed and Beagle/Bloodhound probe), with the Centurion doing a lot of grunt work. Indeed, I can see the 'Mech being the workhorse of Davion companies for the 32nd century, just like the older Centurions were in the preceding centuries.
The current configuration selection is reasonable, though it has some omissions: No mold-breaking configs like missile-boats, nor does the configuration mount advanced weapons or equipment like the re-engineered lasers, superchargers, TSEMPs or radical heat sinks, or FedSun's homegrown Clan-spec stuff. Perhaps we'll get configurations with those things in the future.


The Centurion OmniMech is covered in TRO3145: Federated Suns.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6339/centurion-cn11-o-base
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Centurion_(OmniMech)
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: SteelRaven on 20 October 2016, 15:39:11
Great write up!
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 October 2016, 16:35:54
Like the Koshi and Black Hawk I've covered previously, this Centurion originates from the MechWarrior Dark Age where it gained new looks, and for reason or another got adopted as an OmniMech for standard BattleTech.
from an out of game standpoint, i suspect the choice to make it an Omni wastwo fold. first, to properly reflect the multitude of stats the Centurion figures got in the course of the MWDA game run, and to help alleviate the "well MWDA killed off the omni's" misconception that had been going around.

in universe, an Omni is a good choice for a basic trooper. it adds a bit of extra cost sure, but it makes many post-battle repairs easier, and keeping them updated with new weapons to reflect changes in doctrine or enemy capabilities becomes a little easier.

Quote
The CN11-O is a 50-ton design like most of the previous Centurions, excepting the apparently stillborn CN10 series which were "up-tonned" to 55 tons. The internal structure is Endo-Steel as usual for post-Clan Invasion Centurions. The power plant is a Magna 250 XL Fusion Engine allowing for 86 KPH maximum speed, slower than most of the 31st century Centurions but faster than the original Centurion. These choices leave a lot of free weight and some of it was used to install a Compact Gyroscope, though its utility is slightly questionable when used with an XL-type fusion engine, and the space freed in the center torso isn't really utilized effectively. Covering all this is 9.5 tons of standard armor plate, the same StarGuard III nearly all Centurions use (must be pretty good armor since it is still used in the 32nd century, also probably dirt cheap). 9.5 tons of armor is about 90% of the chassis maximum, and it is arranged about as intelligently as can be. All of this leaves 24 tons of pod space, just under 50% of its weight, which is respectable for is weight class.
Finally, it seems the 'Mech is quite suitable for less skilled pilots, though how so isn't explained anywhere (Design Quirk: Easy to Pilot). Perhaps it has simple, intuitive controls, or maybe it has a tutorial program...
"Hello, and thank you for activating the CN11-O Centurion Frontline Omnimech. You may call me Sheila."

easy to pilot is probably meant to reflect a combination of well laid out and intuitive controls, but the idea of a tutorial program is a fun one.

armor is pretty well standard for centurion's, which makes upgrading from one of the CN9 models (or even the CN10) to the CN11 fairly easy to adjust to. the speed is pretty much halfway between the two main CN9 model families, so that should make converting easier. those used to the CN9-A and derivatives are just a little zippier, while those used to the CN9-D family are just a bit more sluggish.

Quote
The Prime configuration is very traditional. The main gun is an LB-10X autocannon, backed up by an LRM-10 and two ER Medium Lasers (one rear mounted). Both ammo consuming weapons have two tons of ammo. Very much a team player that works in just about any lance, and can deal with everything but conventional infantry. Good configuration when you don't know what you're going to meet.
wouldn't be a centurion without a AC10, LRM10, and 2 lasers, and this one pretty much fights the way the older ones do. the ER mediums give it slightly better reach when it is winchester or just conserving ammo, but the difference isn't that striking.

personally i'd have preferred they put both lasers forward facing, since rear mount guns only got more gimmicky by the dark age, rather than less, but at least the extra range on the ERML means you can start deterring badguys from your aft arc earlier.

Quote
The A configuration seems to be based on the CN9-D5. The main gun is an RAC/5 but instead of mere twin ER Medium Lasers, this one has an MML-9 and an ER Medium. The RAC has the usual 3 tons of ammo, while the MML has only two, forcing the user to either pick standard load of each or doubling down on one type. Since this is not as fast as the CN9-D5, taking a load of Smoke missiles to cover ones approach may be advisable.
could be a nasty config if the gun doesn't jam. the ammo issues on the MML though make me wonder if it wouldn't have been better to have flopped the ammo load.. 3 tons to the MML and 2 to the RAC. you won;t generally be running the RAC full tilt much anyway, and having the extra variety of missiles could have been handy.

as is, load ammo based on your teammates. if your partnered with LRM boats and long range, consider loading SRM's and smoke to help act as bodyguard. if your fellows are more short range, LRM's for a bit of long range power won't be amiss, IMO

Quote
The B configuration is reminiscent of the CN9-AL in that its main gun is an energy weapon, the Heavy PPC to be exact. For extra hilarity, the weapon is tied to a Targeting Computer. Backing up this is an MML-7 with two tons of ammo. For utility, a Guardian ECM suite is carried. An extra Double Heat Sink is borderline pointless, allowing even running alpha strikes to cool down the 'Mech. No back-up lasers are carried which I find somewhat disappointing but I can't really complain about a Heavy PPC and a Targeting Computer. A powerful configuration, blast holes to enemy 'Mechs and follow up with a SRM strike.
very good loadout, though with the spread of variant armor like reflective, perhaps one that won;t stay as powerful for as long.

as for the extra DHS, my guess is that this may well be one of the Davion's standard frontline loadouts, and the oversinking is a response to the Capellan love of plasma rifles and inferno's.


i also wouldn't be surprised if this replaced a lot of older Griffin mechs in AFFC service.
Quote
The C configuration is very much like the Prime but trades the LB-10X for a Plasma Rifle, another excellent generalist weapon. The weight freed is used to install a C3 Slave, a Guardian ECM and five Jump Jets, making this a rare (and surprising) jumping Centurion. Two tons of plasma is reasonable amount for most battles.
Compared to the Prime, this one loses a bit of range but the extra maneuverability and/or C3 link mitigate the loss of range. One must be careful about the heat though, a jumping alpha strike puts one at +9 heat. All these features do make this rather expensive in Battle Value though, some 400 points more than the Prime.
so Plasma rifle, LRM10, and a pair of ERML's? sounds like a vehicle hunter to me, with BA hunter as secondary. the C3 and ECM also lets it act as a scout to a degree. definately ageneralist, but one you'd want to use a bit differently from the prime.

Quote
The D configuration is the odd-ball configuration (like the Templar III's B config). The main weapon is a Hatchet, while the left arm carries a Medium Shield. An MML-9 is carried in the right torso rather than the left where its two-ton ammo bin is located. Center torso has a Beagle Active Probe and two ER Medium Lasers pointed front while the left torso has an ER Small Laser pointed rear. Finally, this configuration carries four jump jets.
All in all, this configuration is rather interesting. The Shield reduces the 'Mech's speed until it is destroyed but grants it considerable amount of extra durability if used correctly. Though the Hatchet deals only 10 points of damage, melee weapons often have psychological impact and draw enemy fire. MMORPG players will recognize this as an archetypal "tank". Draw enemy attention and fire so that others can deal with the enemy freely. Ideal environments for this are canyons and cities, and the Beagle Active Probe makes sure ambushing this vanguard 'Mech is difficult.
As a side note, this configuration is certainly based on the second MWDA Centurion miniature which carries a Hatchet and a Shield.
wasn't that hatchet and shield mini the yen-lo-wang though?

definitely a bodyguard machine, to me. with urban combat as a possible additional role. the MML's torso got switched to prevent the shield from blocking the weapons when in use. if you read the Atlas III MotW, it was pointed out that said Atlas had it's weapons arranged where short range was on one side, long range on the other, and you could keep the opposite shield active whichever set you were using. here the Centurion only has the one, more durable shield, but it is set up so that it can keep that shield up as it advances, while keeping the guns free and firing.

Quote
The final configuration is the E. The E config is very simple: A Gauss Rifle backed up by two ER Medium Lasers, both pointing front. The Gauss Rifle has two tons of ammo. To make most of the Gauss Rifle, this configuration also carries a Boosted C3 Slave, and for general utility or making the link effectively unbreakable, an Angel ECM suite.
Considering the existence of the B with its Heavy PPC, I'm not terribly impressed by this configuration. Sure, it has a range advantage but a Gauss Rifle and two ER Medium Lasers is simply somewhat boring in my opinion. Effective though, and the Angel ECM certainly will come handy.
the E has a bit of saving grace, in that with Reflective armor becoming more widespread, a guass rifle will still do 15 points of damage, while a HPPC is going be doing only 7-8 (or less if blue shield in involved)

i'm not sure how widespread the boosted C3 is though. could the be actually be a Combine made config used to integrate captured CN11's into their forces?
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 17:10:07
wasn't that hatchet and shield mini the yen-lo-wang though?

i'm not sure how widespread the boosted C3 is though. could the be actually be a Combine made config used to integrate captured CN11's into their forces?

A quick look at warrenborn.com indicates there are multiple Centurion MWDA minis with the Hatchet and Shield, such as "Ascension" and "Maximus".

As for the BC3S... could be. But i do think there are Davion units with BC3 computers, plus you can use Boosted Slave with standard C3 Master, so it is useful either way.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: SteelRaven on 20 October 2016, 19:04:00
Great write up.

The Centurion Omni was a nice evolutionary step for a classic chassis. You no longer need to choose between the Centurion Chassis, only the configuration before your mission. The much needed boost in speed is also welcome.

Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 19:16:19
Great write up.

The Centurion Omni was a nice evolutionary step for a classic chassis. You no longer need to choose between the Centurion Chassis, only the configuration before your mission. The much needed boost in speed is also welcome.

Thanks.

Most of the advanced Centurions from 31st century have 6/9 speed, while the Omni Centurion has only 5/8. Certainly better than the original models or CN10-B.
That said, the loss from 6/9 isn't that terrible. I would have liked a configuration with a Supercharger though.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 20:04:39
Nothing with CASE II is even capable of having a torso bomb.  If you take the ammo hit, at worst you take one point of structure damage (at reduced chance for additional crits!  Which I learned literally two days ago), and lose the rear armor on that torso.  You will still take two pilot hits, but the ultimate effectiveness of the unit is degraded by the loss of a ton of ammo and barely anything else.

CASE II is one of my favorite technologies, period.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 20:17:00
It isn't uncommon for the Centurion to have way more exploding slots than it has engine slots in a side torso. And ammo hits have chance of causing additional crits, and if so, probably ammo hits again. CASE II is wonderful but it doesn't reduce the chance of an ammo explosion happening in the first place. That is enough for me to call it "torso bomb".
That said, it is infinitely preferable to, say, 3025 Marauders and their empty torso explosive ammo aside.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 20:28:39
CASE II reduces the chance of follow-on crits by 42% per crit rolled (roll 8+ against the crit, it doesn't happen).  Usually "torso bomb" means that hitting the ammo will certainly destroy the 'Mech, or has a significant chance of mission-killing the 'Mech outright.

The odds of an ammunition hit causing an additional crit against a CASE II protected location is almost exactly 24%, and with an XL engine the odds of it being another ammo hit are very small.  Granted, that's not ideal, but you need three ammo crits to kill the pilot, and the odds of that happening are... well, you have a similar chance of TAC'ing the gyro.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 20:38:25
Didn't say it was likely*, just that there's a chance for that. And ammo or engine hits, neither one is nice. Wish there was at least one DHS in the location for padding.
I generally dislike having much ammo in one location, regardless of CASE II. Especially if it is next to an engine, without any padding. Though this does depend on rate of fire, a lot of ammo in one place is OK if it is also consumed fast (eg 3 tons ammo for 2xLRM-20 in empty torso).


*When dice are involved, it doesn't matter what statistics say. The worst thing happens at the worst possible moment. Random Number God is a cruel god.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 20 October 2016, 20:45:06
so question.. it is mentioned the Omni has a compact gyro, but none of the variants use the extra space.

what kind of equipment would we be seeing if someone did set out to use the extra room in the CT given up by the gyro?
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 20:51:12
Compact gyros are some of my favorite tech, because it requires the crits hit both slots out of two, instead of only having to get half of them.  Even beyond just having some extra space.  Armoring compact gyros is also good for that, since it means in order to destroy the gyro you have to hit it in both crits twice.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Kidd on 20 October 2016, 21:07:01
With CASE II, that is probably the least torso-bomby torso bomb ever, and I am way cool with that :)

what kind of equipment would we be seeing if someone did set out to use the extra room in the CT given up by the gyro?
I believe some of the variants do use the extra space, they just don't use it effectively enough to justify the compact gyro. Put in important things like Radical Heat Sinks or Tarcomps. Filling it with weapons would make for a decent zombie, but the XLFE instead of LFE/SFE just cripples the idea really.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2016, 21:13:20
so question.. it is mentioned the Omni has a compact gyro, but none of the variants use the extra space.

what kind of equipment would we be seeing if someone did set out to use the extra room in the CT given up by the gyro?

Strictly speaking several configurations do use the space freed... but they all would have enough space in other locations for the equipment. The space isn't used effectively really, IMO, though center torso crit-padding is always welcome. Better to lose equipment than to take engine hits or gyro hits, me thinks.

Honestly, i'm not really a fan of compact gyros. The space is rarely well used. Like, that TarComp in the CT while the gun's in an arm? Sure, the CT has enough armor so that the TarComp probably won't be taken out soon (and if there are crits, better it goes than the vital components) but with the main gun in an arm... well, they are weaker than torso locations usually and arms can be taken out in two ways, either blasting the arm or the adjacent side-torso.
When i make custom designs, i tend to use compact gyros mostly when i either really need the space (eg for a flashbulb with massive amount of IS DHS), or when i try to avoid making an asymmetric design and i need to fit 3-slot item to the design.

Compact gyro that is also armored is slightly pointless. Armored standard gyro is typically lighter overall and works well as a shield for the engine as well.
I prefer heavy-duty gyro to alternatives but from min-maxing viewpoint it is utterly pointless once armoring the gyro is possible, as armored is better and lighter than the HD gyro.

(I wish MechWarrior IV Mercenaries-like "Advanced Gyro" would exists, something that gives bonus to PSR-rolls, possibly increasing the threshold for PSR from damage, at the expense of weight and possibly space.)
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Scotty on 20 October 2016, 22:16:14
Compact (and armored) Gyros are massive upgrades on anything you want to (literally) walk off the field under its own power.  Paired with XL Engines, this is reduced somewhat, but it all comes down to when you start taking crits.

One engine hit is an inconvenience.  Two is a handicap, but is still survivable.  Three leaves you dead.

One gyro hit is catastrophic.  Two leaves you dead in the water.  Clearly, to take a gyro crit is much, much worse individually than to take an engine hit.

Reducing the number of crits that can cause a gyro hit improves survivability immediately - even if the only thing modified is the ratio of engine to gyro crits.  A normal gyro/engine arrangement is 10 total crits, 4 gyro crits.  On a critical hit, there is a 41.67% chance of scoring at least one critical hit.  Then, there is a 40% chance of that critical scoring a hit on the gyro, for a combined 1/6th chance that the first critical hit you take in the CT cripples (but admittedly does not mission-kill) your 'Mech.  The number is actually slightly higher than that, since higher crit table rolls will result in more crits, but that math gets more complicated.

Consider, then, a compact gyro and a standard engine.  The total crits have been reduced to 8, including 2 gyro crits.  The same 41.67% chance of a critical hit being rolled, but now there is only a 25% chance of taking a gyro hit, for a combined 10% chance of the same happening.  That's a reduction of over a third!

Actual odds:
5/36 and 4/36 chance of one crit -> 25%
3/36 and 2/36 chance of two crits -> 13.89%
1/36 chance of three crits -> 2.78%

When dealing with one crit, chance of hitting the gyro (standard) once is 4/10, combined chance -> 10%

Now things get fun.  When dealing with two crits, the chance of hitting the gyro on the first crit is 4/10.  If the first crit hits the gryo, the second will hit the gyro 3/9 of the time, and not hit it 6/9 of the time.  If the first crit does not hit the gryo (6/10), then the second crit will hit the gyro 4/9 of the time.  The individual chances of getting one gyro crit is 53.33%, and the chance of getting two gyro crits is 13.33%, which makes the chance of getting at least one gyro hit is 66.67% on two crits.  Since two crits happen 13.89% of the time, the combined chances are 7.41% for one crit, 1.85% chance of two crits, and a combined chance of getting at least one gyro crit at 9.26%.  Running total, we're up to 19.26% chance of a gyro crit, 1.85% chance of two.

When three crits are rolled, things get... annoying.  There are eight possible combinations of engine/gyro hits with three crits. 
The chances of doing one gyro hit: 50%
Chances of two gyro hits: 30%
Chances of three gyro hits: 3.33%
Chance of doing at least one gyro hit: 83.33%
Chance of doing at least two gyro hits: 33.33%

What does this stupidly long explanation end up with?  An additional 2.31% chance for at least one gyro hit, and a 0.93% chance of two or more.

Absolute chances of taking at least one gyro hit from a critical hit chance: 21.57%.  Chance of hitting it twice: 2.78% (amusing note: this is actually the same chances as rolling boxcars in the first place, exactly).  That's including the critical chance roll in the first place, so this is actually the chances you will be crippled if a crit roll is prompted in the first place.

That took forever and a lot of space, so please excuse me for shortening the rest of this post to tell you the same chances of hitting a compact gyro:

Single crit: 6.25%
Two crits: 5.95% chance of one, 0.5% chance of two; 6.45% chance of at least one.
Three crits: 1.49% chance of one, 0.3% chance of two; 1.79% chance of at least one.

Cumulative total: 14.49% chance of taking a gyro hit.  Very nearly exactly a third harder to manage, which means a 'Mech with a standard gyro will be crippled 50% more frequently than a compact gyro.

This edition of MathTech brought to you by my love of compact gyros.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Alexander Knight on 20 October 2016, 23:41:01
I find it sadly amusing that the Omniturion's CASEII is not a torso bomb, but the common consensus on the Lu Wei Bing was that it's CASEII *was* a torso bomb.  :P
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: gyedid on 21 October 2016, 00:50:35
I don't get why the Centurion, and not the Enforcer, was chosen to be the AFFS' homegrown medium Omni.  You could argue that with only a 5/8 movement profile, this creates the opportunity for the chassis to duplicate common Enforcer variants, but none of the canon configs do.  It's an Omni, but there's not even one jump-capable config.

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: SteelRaven on 21 October 2016, 00:55:57
Maybe the Feds didn't feel like they needed to replace the Enforcer III while many older Centurions started showing their age.

I find it sadly amusing that the Omniturion's CASEII is not a torso bomb, but the common consensus on the Lu Wei Bing was that it's CASEII *was* a torso bomb.  :P
It was also common consensus that the Lu Wei Bing was a Victor ;)
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 21 October 2016, 01:14:26
It's an Omni, but there's not even one jump-capable config.
C configuration.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: gyedid on 21 October 2016, 01:18:46
C configuration.

I stand corrected.  But it's still not an Enforcer.

cheers,

Gabe
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 21 October 2016, 07:20:35
Maybe the Feds didn't feel like they needed to replace the Enforcer III while many older Centurions started showing their age.
This is my thinking. Also, the Enforcer III is getting a new variant per TRO3150's NTNU section, so it definitely isn't getting replaced. I think I suggested the CN11 might replace older Enforcers but logically the Enforcer III does that still.

And this gives me an idea for an analysis article...
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: mbear on 21 October 2016, 07:38:14
I don't get why the Centurion, and not the Enforcer, was chosen to be the AFFS' homegrown medium Omni. 

The popularity of Kai Allard-Liao and Yen-Lo-Wang might have had something to do with it. (Sort of like how the Trans Am got more popular after Smokey and the Bandit came out, or the Ford Mustang after Bullitt was released.)

As for the "Easy to Pilot" quirk: You could explain this by saying that the design has been a key part of the AFFS for so long that it's been through hundreds of revisions to its controls. It's probably also used as a training 'Mech, after your cadets have qualified on a Chameleon.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: cavingjan on 21 October 2016, 11:36:27
The AFFS decided to do something else with the Enforcer.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 21 October 2016, 12:03:12
The AFFS decided to do something else with the Enforcer.

Stick them in front of Daoshen's army and hope they'd slow him down?  ^-^
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: SteelRaven on 21 October 2016, 12:46:44
I stand corrected.  But it's still not an Enforcer.

??? and a Zeus X isn't a Battlemaster, so what.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Wrangler on 21 October 2016, 13:13:32
CN11 seems to be very well crafted machine.  CGL did nice job fixing up.  I personally wish WizKids hadn't made it so..ugly, but Mike Plog did nice job making it look nicer in his art for the TRO.

Nice write up. Empyrus!
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: sadlerbw on 21 October 2016, 16:09:37
I am a big fan of the Centurion Omni. I honeslty don't care as much that it's an omni (although having a line unit that can carry Battle Armor is nice), but the general specs are right up my alley. I like medium mechs because they usually have enough tonnage to mount at least one of virtually any weapon system without becoming absurdly compromised in other areas, but they aren't so big that you don't still have to pick a role or make meaningful tradeoffs like Heavies and Assaults can. My favorite mediums are those that are mobile and built around one or two major weapon systems system like the Hunchback and the Griffin. This puts the Omni Cent right directly up my alley. Most configs have a large-ish primary weapon with one or two supporting weapons. It has moderate speed without trying to act like an over-sized light, decent armor, and some genuine variety in weapons choices without hugely changing the theme or layout of the mech. I especially appreciate that, like the Templar III, there is a melee-focused variant.

On the negative side, I really only have one complaints: the rear-firing laser. Come on guys. I know the original had it, but it was a bad idea then as well! You would think that, at some point in the past couple hundred years, someone would have figured out that laser is a whole lot more useful when it points forward! I can kinda forgive the ER Small on the -OD since it also has two ER Mediums pointing forward, but the prime and -OC? Nope. That was not a connection to the original design that needed to be preserved.

Those minor gripes aside, I still really like this mech! The -OA is probably my favorite conifg, but the -OD and -OC might have eclipsed it if they didn't both fall into my 'minor issues' categories! Even the mini was a pleasant surprise to work with. I had some serious concerns about the little cylinders on the left shoulder, but somehow they were much, much easier to work with than the same things on the Ghost. I liked it enough that I bought the variant mini when it was released as well!
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 21 October 2016, 16:24:52
There is no "new engine" on D config, which isn't even allowed by rules. The Medium Shield reduces its speed to 4/6 until it is destroyed.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: marauder648 on 22 October 2016, 01:59:30
Good stuff :) I like the idea of the axe/shield variant, otherwise the configs are all very much in the vein of the older Centurion, solid, dependable and reliable. Nothing too flashy, just hard hitting.  Great article too :)
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Wrangler on 22 October 2016, 07:17:34
When it appeared, i was confused why Yen Lo Wang ended up looking like the Dark Age Centurions.
Since Danai Liao-Centrella having refitted her uncle's prize mech, with Clan Heavy Laser in the center and a Long Bow” Long-Range Missile 20 Launcher with Artemis with the Ax and Shield.  The Dark Age novels Principles of Desolation gave more details for it's stats.  The old MWDA Dark Age Dossier (https://sarna.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/mwda_dossiers/counterassault_24.pdf) for it is on Sarna.Net as well as Warrenborne fan site for clickytech.  I wonder if her Yen-Lo-Wang will get stats.  It sorely is needed.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: sadlerbw on 22 October 2016, 07:53:32
There is no "new engine" on D config, which isn't even allowed by rules. The Medium Shield reduces its speed to 4/6 until it is destroyed.

I am an idiot. Thanks for reminding me of that part of the shield rules. I'll go revise my post now!
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 22 October 2016, 07:56:31
When it appeared, i was confused why Yen Lo Wang ended up looking like the Dark Age Centurions.
Since Danai Liao-Centrella having refitted her uncle's prize mech, with Clan Heavy Laser in the center and a Long Bow” Long-Range Missile 20 Launcher with Artemis with the Ax and Shield.  The Dark Age novels Principles of Desolation gave more details for it's stats.  The old MWDA Dark Age Dossier (https://sarna.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/mwda_dossiers/counterassault_24.pdf) for it is on Sarna.Net as well as Warrenborne fan site for clickytech.  I wonder if her Yen-Lo-Wang will get stats.  It sorely is needed.

We'll talk about Yen-lo-wang and its changing looks and equipment in a thread dedicated to it. I have notes and speculation about its looks and stuff, plus some conjecture.

One thing i'll note here: It is possible this Omni Centurion's looks are based on the third incarnation of Yen-lo-wang, since its record sheet uses the this OmniCent's picture. But more about that in the special article... in the future.

EDIT Also remember what mbear noted about why no Enforcer-based Omni...
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 23 October 2016, 21:14:52
I want to like this mech, but honestly it's just too derivative of the standard mech.  I'd like it better if they'd had more configurations that provided a few more roles.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: SteelRaven on 23 October 2016, 21:34:14
Give it some time, I'm sure we will have Clan weapons on a couple of them soon enough.

Light Gauss configuration may give some a sniper alternative to the E Configuration with more ammo and room for another weapon system.

Little reason to not have a 'More Missiles!" config. or a all energy version all omni configurations being equal.   
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Terrace on 23 October 2016, 23:38:39
As is, it's still very good at performing the bodyguard role for indirect fire support lances, even able to add its own fire in many configurations until something pops up that won't expect a big gun pointed at it.

Light 'Mech Pilot: Alright, that fire lance that's giving us so much trouble should be just over this ridge. As long as I get close, my speed should keep me safe until I identify every unit...

*runs in*

LMP: I'm seeing an Archer, a pair of Dervishes, and - oh crap that Centurion saw me!

*Big gun blows big holes in Light 'Mech before following up with an SRM chaser*

Centurion Pilot: Gotcha, you little bastard!
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: AJC46 on 24 October 2016, 09:17:06
the only thing i recall about this mech is that it caused a errata that made shields pod mountable IIRC.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 October 2016, 09:37:45
Yeah, the Cent-O explored no new ground- its the 3050s & 3060s Centurions, Enforcers, Griffins (HPPC) & Wolverine (RAC) with a few little twists (E is the GR Enforcer without JJ).  As it was duplicating everything the Centurion et al, had done before it did not have room in the TRO to explore new things . . .

Like it was noted, it would be interesting to see one mounting the cERLL like the Black Knights, in fact replacing the HPPC with 2 cERLL might use more of the heat sinking ability in that configuration.  it should also probably have something like the Blackhawk with Clan energy weapons in the arms so it can transport the BA when needed . . . maybe the design that needs the SC.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Wrangler on 24 October 2016, 10:21:41
Despite their maintenance cost.  I think Omni Centurion would be more common in a era know for downsizing it's military arms.  The FedSuns drastically was downsize due to the Jihad, having a Mech that can change out its weaponry and become the tool the force needs at moment notice would be ideal replacement for something lost.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 24 October 2016, 10:26:17
Modernize while downsizing, emphasis on quality over quantity. Sounds pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 24 October 2016, 10:51:08
Yeah, the Cent-O explored no new ground- its the 3050s & 3060s Centurions, Enforcers, Griffins (HPPC) & Wolverine (RAC) with a few little twists (E is the GR Enforcer without JJ).  As it was duplicating everything the Centurion et al, had done before it did not have room in the TRO to explore new things . . .

makes it sound like they switched to an Omni more to simplify production of the various types.. build one chassis and then fit the pods to duplicate whatever CN9 variant the buyer wanted to order. ability to change variants later a convenient bonus.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 October 2016, 10:59:30
Its always how I took it and JHB's article last week lets you sort of match them up by loadout.  I really think a player could use it for any of the 5/8 or 6/9 50 or 55t traditional mechs . . . heck, I wonder if it could duplicate a Nightsky since the Hatchet is Omni-capable.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 24 October 2016, 11:50:45
Its always how I took it and JHB's article last week lets you sort of match them up by loadout.  I really think a player could use it for any of the 5/8 or 6/9 50 or 55t traditional mechs . . . heck, I wonder if it could duplicate a Nightsky since the Hatchet is Omni-capable.

I can't think of a reason why not. I don't have mech design software handy, nor my TROs, but you'd need 12 tons for the Nightsky's pulse laser collection, three or four tons for the axe, and some heat sinks. Not overly impressive in terms of reaching out to do damage, but doable anyway.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 24 October 2016, 12:02:41
Why not use the D config?
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 24 October 2016, 12:14:56
Because you want more lasers and less shield.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 24 October 2016, 13:09:36
Plus JJ . . .

It was more that with that design you could copy just about any of the 50t or 55t workhorses that move 5/8 or 6/9.  Which since some of them might no longer be available its something to consider . . . though it does point to the argument folks make saying any IS force just needs 3 or 4 Omni designs to handle most of what they use.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Terrace on 24 October 2016, 23:51:11
Plus JJ . . .

It was more that with that design you could copy just about any of the 50t or 55t workhorses that move 5/8 or 6/9.  Which since some of them might no longer be available its something to consider . . . though it does point to the argument folks make saying any IS force just needs 3 or 4 Omni designs to handle most of what they use.

While most of the current configurations are simply re-treads of assorted Centurion models, I'm sure that anyone with a Mech building program who's got the base chassis already in there will easily be able to start branching out. Want a Hunchback stand-in? AC/20s of various types will still leave enough tonnage for a decent supply of ammo and the traditional backup weapons. Need a missile boat and don't have a Dervish around? Omniturion to the rescue!

These examples are but two ways to expand the Omni-Centurion's functionality, and will likely show up as this version of the Centurion spreads further within the ranks of the AFFC.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 October 2016, 09:13:36
Oh yeah, that is why I was asking about the Nightsky since it shows up in HMP as restricted equipment . . . though the Celestials had melee equipment on Omnis so it should not have really been a question.

My mercs managed to blow the legs off a Dragon's Fury (and a arm and a side . . . ) which will be great if they can ever put it back together again.  I thought of making something like the old PPC armed Uziel.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 October 2016, 12:41:38
HMP is badly outdated at this point, the construction rules in Tech Manual state that melee weapons can be pod-mounted for omnis.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 25 October 2016, 13:25:23
HMP is badly outdated at this point, the construction rules in Tech Manual state that melee weapons can be pod-mounted for omnis.

Definitely reinforces how out of date it is. We've had a Firestarter with a sword for a very long time now.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 25 October 2016, 13:50:39
Yeah, that configuration dates back to FASA's Field Manuals.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 October 2016, 13:52:03
Well, its colored the same as engine, gyro, etc which means you cannot move it.  I am at work and cannot check HMP, so . . .

I think the only hard rule its off on is the FF armor change.  I know someone updated the weapons for at least filling crits and basics.

For the most part I am with Grayson on melee weapons . . . with the exception of the Ti T'sang.  So its not something I really play with on Omni.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Wrangler on 25 October 2016, 15:18:06
I'd have to try this out with Mech.  Shields certainly change things.  Unlike the Ti T'sang, I think the combo of Shield and Melee weapon is interesting mix.  I've never used Combo of Shield/Melee it before.  Having the shield in active mode, so it blocking fire to arm, sidetorso (shield side) and center, while getting up close and personal.  I don't know how effective it would be but i think it be interesting.

I know this Mech is a Omni, i keep thinking of in the sense of Campaign mentality, where i'm not going be using this for casual game so much it gives me option to have a melee fighting Mech when i want one/need one without having own dedicated melee fighter.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 25 October 2016, 15:41:08
There are two primary ways to use the Shield.
The conventional one is to use it block heavy weapon attacks, like Gauss shots. Obviously, an enemy can take advantage of this to reduce the shield to pieces with other weapons and save their big guns for other 'Mechs. A would-be headshot turns into a non-issue... that is sure to make the enemy think.
Alternatively, you start using the Shield actively once your armor's starting to get depleted, to absorb critical-hit causing shots.

Either way, Shield-equipped 'Mechs are often good vanguard 'Mechs, something that draws the enemy attention. The Centurion is actually pretty good for this role, since as a medium 'Mech it isn't as important as, say, the Black Knight (which is also a tad slow for the role). A sacrificial piece.
But if the enemy doesn't shoot it, no matter, it gets to melee combat and whacks enemies with the Hatchet and fills holes with SRMs, all to while being nigh impossible to kill thanks to the Shield.
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Colt Ward on 25 October 2016, 16:11:03
How does a SC effect a shield mech?  Would the Cent-O be 4/6(8) or 4/6(10) based on the original engine speed?
Title: Re: Early 'Mech of the Week: CN11-O* Centurion (OmniMech)
Post by: Empyrus on 25 October 2016, 16:31:26
I think Supercharger applies after the Shield's MP penalty.
I mean, it affects the base speed while equipped, and SC/MASC modify this value.
Isn't TSM counted first, before Supercharger?

An errata may have noted the correct order... or perhaps a question in the question forum...
EDIT Not in errata. There may have been question. But i'm pretty sure you should count the shield effect first.