Author Topic: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite  (Read 20352 times)

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« on: 31 March 2018, 03:52:21 »
Hoplite – The traditional image of ancient Greek soldiers.
Hoplite – The Battletech universes most angry of tictacs.

Background

Designed by Martinson Armaments and entering service in 2578 the Hoplite was designed from the onset as an infantry support Mech.  This could raise some eyebrows considering that the design almost uniformly lacks infantry support weapons and is built more to engage hardened targets than hostile infantry forces.  But this is also the SLDF who thought that things like the Magi were a good idea, so one could easily assume that greased palms were involved.

Possible corruption aside, the Hoplite’s saw widespread action in the Reunification War as an organic component of the SLDF’s Infantry Divisions.  Unfortunately, the Hoplite wasn’t too widely accepted, an attempt to make a more direct combat Mech was seen as a failure and when the Reunification War came to an end the Hoplite was quietly shuffled off to militia around the Hegemony.

The brutal fighting round the former Hegemony worlds during the First and Second Succession Wars the Hoplite all but vanished, fighting on Hegemony worlds like New Dallas where they would have been obliterated by nuclear fire and orbital bombardment or grabbed by the House Lords for their bitter battles against their rivals.  For all intense and purposes, the Mech was extinct and with the Factory that produced it reduced to ruin, there was no chance of it being rebuilt.

And then the Wolf’s Dragoon’s nearly blew their cover by showing up with a large quantity of this extinct Mech in the 3rd Succession War.  The Dragoon’s had departed Clan space with what they and the Clans thought would be common Mechs in the Inner Sphere, and as the Hoplite had been common when they had left, they assumed that it would still be bimbling around when they sent their recon force.

They done goofed.  Showing up with a large number of pristine and either unknown Mech’s (Imp, Annihilator, Marauder II, Hoplite etc) just raised more questions about where the hell the Dragoon’s found them or got them.  Queue lots of nervous sweating and crossed fingers from the Dragoons whilst they hoped the Inner Sphere bought their lie that was basically “We found them behind the baking soda, and some had slipped down behind the couch.”

Which the Successor lords promptly accepted, but there was angry noises and hissing coming from Terra. 

A common unit in Dragoon service the design suffered heavy attrition once they stopped their resupply runs and by the time the Jihad raged across the Inner Sphere the Mech was nearly made extinct again save for frantic rebuilding efforts on Arc-Royal where Hoplites were produced mostly as testbeds.  This keeps the Hoplite around even today, although with the capture of Arc-Royal by the Falcons may well be the final nail in the coffin of the Hoplite’s long life.

Design

At 55-tons the Hoplite is at the top end of the scale of the Medium Mech weight class and in reality, its an incredibly simple Machine.  Lacking any distinct arms, rather just some jutting cowlings that could pass as shoulders, its oblong body is planted atop a simple looking pair of legs, giving it a plain and simple profile.  As it was designed to support infantry forces the Hoplite is not a fast Mech.  It is only capable of a maximum speed of 64kph although it also lacks jump jets.  What it lacks in speed though it makes up for in armoured protection with 11.5 tons of standard plate giving it the maximum level of protection capable for its chassis.  Unfortunately, the design suffers from being quite grossly oversinked, as it carries an extra 6 heatsinks which, quite frankly are not needed as its usual weapons combinations make it near impossible to overheat.  This additional weight eats into what the Hoplite can carry and its weapon choices limit it further which probably explain why it was palmed off to the Militia following the Reunification War.

The Hoplite also saw extensive use in the nascent Clans as well as the warring remnants of the SLDF so it’s quite possible that you could find old Hoplites in the Clan’s Brian Caches or even second line/Solhama units.

Variants

HOP-4A – Where it all began, the 4A is simple and durable and it shows it’s an early generation Mech.  Its main punch comes from an AC-10, which is a potent weapon by any standard, hard hitting and produces very little heat.  Its main drawback is its single ton of ammunition which limits its endurance.  For long range fire a LRM-5 and its associated ton of ammunition are also installed and then that’s it.  With 16 heatsinks, even with an engine hit this thing will run and gun all day.

HOP-4B – The attempt to make a more generic unit resulted in a slower Griffin.  The LRM-5 and heavy autocannon are both stripped out and, in their place, a PPC and LRM-15 with a 2-ton ammo bin are installed.  This actually lets the Hoplite use its 16 heatsinks and you’ll only get a blip on the heat if you run and gun the lot.  But basically, it’s a slower Griffin and needs to be used as one, stay back and hammer away with the LRM and PPC at anything that moves. 

HOP-4Bb – The Royal variant that never was, the 4Bb was actually produced in the Kerensky Cluster and was used by the warring SLDF Remnants as well as the Proto-Clans as a mainline unit.  Like other Royal variants this is a significant overhaul of the base chassis and is far more capable for it.  But if you take off the advanced glitz, it’s basically a 4B that’s been tarted up a bit.  The heatsinks are upgraded to double heatsinks although only 11 are fitted, this is still more than enough for the Mech’s needs.  The PPC is upgraded to an ER PPC (not a Clan one bearing in mind) whilst the LRM is fitted with Artemis IV to improve accuracy.  For defence, an AMS is fitted whilst both side torsos are fitted with CASE and the electronics suite now features an ECM.  A very solid upgrade of the base chassis, I don’t know if these Mech’s were all hulked, but it’s possible that some might survive in Brian Caches.

HOP-4Cb – Another Clan creation the 4Cb was created by Clan Hells Horses and served with them during Operation KLONDIKE as a support Mech.  Stripping out the heatsinks and converting them to doubles keeps the Mech cool whilst its armour plating was upgraded to Ferro-Fibrous plate.  Although the armour didn’t change, it did save weight, and this was put into the weapons.  Trading out the ER PPC, LRM-15 and ECM of the Bb the Cb is armed with a gauss rifle (again, IS standard) fed by a useful 3-ton ammo bin and an SRM-6 with its own 1-ton ammo supply.  Both gauss rifle and the SRM ammunition is protected by CASE. 

HOP-4C – Identical to the 4A in every respect save for changes to its fire control computer, the 4C was the Hoplite the Dragoons showed up with which got everyone eyeing them suspiciously whilst loud screaming noises probably came from Hilton Head.  Not much to say here, it’s a 4A, AC-10, LRM-5, 16 heatsinks, and that’s it.  Its more notable for the fact that it was supposedly extinct and then resurrected with the return of the Dragoons than anything else.

HOP-4D – Part of the Helm Memory core upgrades that swept across the Inner Sphere, the Dragoon’s also upgraded their Hoplite C’s into the D model. This is a simple but effective upgrade, removing the AC-10 and replacing it with a LB-10 and an extra ton of ammunition.  The versatility of the LB-10 and the shotgun nature of cluster rounds FINALLY lets the Hoplite be able to engage tanks or other vehicles without just punching them, and it performs as a nasty AA-gun.  Honestly, this isn’t bad.  You still can’t overheat the damn thing no matter what, and the LB-10 brings a nice amount of versatility to the Mech.

HOP-C  - Limited to the Wolf’s Dragoons and probably built in limited numbers the C is a pure Clantech upgrade of the Hoplite and probably the best of the lot and it’s the first Hoplite you can overheat!  Replacing the armour package with 10-tons of Clan Ferro-Fibrous plate the C’s armament is a mix of the Bb and C.  An Ultra-10 autocannon and LRM-15 forms the main punch, all Clan-spec as are its defensive weapons.  An ER Medium laser and pair of Medium Pulse lasers can engage at the Ultra’s engagement ranges.  Although still slow for its size, it’s got a mean slap and is far more deserving of its name now.

HOP-4X – The latest iteration of the Hoplite that was kept alive on Arc-Royal the 4X is very much a testbed using new technologies as well as integrating Clantech weapons.  It’s so radically different that it’s hard to call this a variant, it’s almost a new Mech.  Built around a worryingly fragile Composite skeleton and powered by a 275 rated Light engine the 4X can hit up to 86kph at full speed.  It is shielded by 10.5 tons of Inner Sphere Ferro-Fibrous composite armour for the full amount of protection for its fragile interior.  The heatsinks are double strength and of Inner Sphere standard but the weapons are all Clan.  A Clan RAC-5 forms the main punch and is fed by a 3-ton CASE protected ammunition bin.  A Streak LRM-15 is also installed and is fed by a 2-ton ammunition supply.  Finally, a light active probe lets it spot ambushes.  The 4X can bring some serious firepower to bare but if its armour is penetrated then its fragile skeleton make it easier to disable.

Thoughts

An incredibly simple beatstick that does not change much of what it does despite several variants as they all stick close to the same design philosophy of ‘big gun and LRMs’ and pretty much runs with it.  The 4A, 4C and 4D are all basically identical and even the C is a variation on the same tune.  Still whilst this thing is boring, and could use some tidying up, mainly to get rid of those utterly pointless 6 extra heatsinks which could then give the Mech some other weapons or systems, its not actually bad.
Let’s be honest,  no one can really ignore an AC-10 hit, and even a Dire Wolf would be going “Hey now…hold on there feller..” after being tickled by an AC-10 slug. The LRM’s useful but probably if you only fired thunder rounds or smoke to mess with someone. 

As all the variants are remixes of the same tune, you can take a Hoplite of any config and they’ll all perform pretty well.  They hit hard and are darn hard to kill, and really the only way to quickly kill one is to hit the ammo for a quick kill.  Reliable if boring the Hoplite’s adequate at what it does, which is brings a big cannon to the battlefield.



A 4C, lets be honest, not the best model



A well converted 4X


A 4D with its pilot about to be given a horrid reminder why a Mech with no arms should never, EVER get in jumping range of a Point of Elementals.


A 4Bb note the different cockpit layout.



Hoplite armour, in no way, shape or form similar to the Mech, save perhaps the shield...which is round. 


As always, thoughts and comments are most welcome!
« Last Edit: 31 March 2018, 03:55:36 by marauder648 »
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12024
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #1 on: 31 March 2018, 06:25:32 »
The Star League/Hegemony did a number of 'infantry support mechs', like the Jackrabbit and the Shadow Hawk. None of them have any sort of anti-infantry gear. Instead, they tend to mount autocannnons and missiles, usually longer range systems.

The idea was probably similar to the Char B1 and similar tanks from the 1930's, which were designed for supporting infantry, by giving the infantry a self propelled cannon platform able to deal with bunkers and other infantry supporting vehicles. All without burdening the infantry with too many awkward towed guns.
Though the hoplight has more in common with the assault guns that replaced the infantry tanks. Especially such examples like the STuG IV, mounting a big gun on a low profile hull.


The Hoplight honestly was not a bad mech for such a role. Mobile enough to keep up with most of the mechanized platoons, the AC10 is a great bunkerbuster and vehicle killer, and that LRM5 can drop smoke to cover an advance. Especially if you have lances or entire companies coordinating.
Though I have to wonder why they stuck 16 SHS onto the -4A.. Seems like a waste of 6 tons on such a low heat mech.
« Last Edit: 31 March 2018, 06:47:47 by glitterboy2098 »

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #2 on: 31 March 2018, 08:24:13 »
Given that the Star League had large amounts of infantry, infantry support 'Mechs make sense. And lack of anti-infantry weapons is not a big deal because you have infantry everywhere dealing with enemy infantry.

The Hoplite A/C is complete nonsense though. Typical early FASA-era design, with far too many unnecessary heat sinks. I reckon the 'Mech was meant to be a medium and had to have max armor yet didn't another want a 5/8 55-tonner, while weaponry was probably based to art so they had to fill the extra weight with something else.

The 4B is much more reasonable design.
Likewise, the 4Bb and 4Cb are actually good designs (but then most small-bees are since they are IRL modern designs).

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7180
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #3 on: 31 March 2018, 08:30:10 »

The extra heatsinks were likely for handling inferno hits.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
Nebula California: HyperTube Xtreme
Nebula Confederation Ships

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #4 on: 31 March 2018, 08:38:40 »
There's some inferno hits and then there's basically having to dunk the damn thing in inferno gel to affect it, the Hoppy suffers from the latter.  Its grossly oversinked.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #5 on: 31 March 2018, 08:44:18 »
The extra heatsinks were likely for handling inferno hits.
In-universe or gameplay perspective? I doubt that it would get hit that much in either case. (IIRC, infernos aren't too common because folks don't like to handle volatile stuff.) Given its weapon ranges, it should be standing clear of enemy SRM launchers. Infantry lacks range, which is what the Hoplite intended to give them.

It still could do with much fewer heat sinks. LRM-5 and AC/10 combo runs really cool overall.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7180
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #6 on: 31 March 2018, 09:15:45 »
There's some inferno hits and then there's basically having to dunk the damn thing in inferno gel to affect it, the Hoppy suffers from the latter.  Its grossly oversinked.
The maximum internal heat that it can produce = 2 (run) + 2 (LRM) + 3 (AC) = 7
The heat dissipation is 16, so it has a spare capacity of 9 points.
However the maximum of heat from external sources is 15 points (Inferno SRM, Burning hexes, Flamers, etc).
So when dealing with dirty fanatics, it has enough heatsinks to remain operational, but not enough to do everything in the worse case scenario.   
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
Nebula California: HyperTube Xtreme
Nebula Confederation Ships

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28988
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #7 on: 31 March 2018, 12:50:37 »
I have faced the 4Bb recently, and my opponent was extremely unhappy when his arms got stripped . . . and he started taking crits in those arms- since that was all the weapons.  While this maybe a infantry support mech, I think it can easily be said its just a fire support machine.  Even the versions with GR & SRMs, its going to be best for it to hang back and fire the big gun until its out of ammo or needs to wade in to finish things.


Also, what I can find says the -4X has Singles- not doubles.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5802
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #8 on: 31 March 2018, 13:19:12 »
It's a neat platform.  Kitbashed a few of them too.  There are a few other mechs with arm only loadouts as well so I don't see it too much of a drawback.  I also agree with using it as a support unit, keeping it to the rear.

sadlerbw

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1679
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #9 on: 31 March 2018, 13:35:31 »
Sorry, but the A and C are over-sinked. No one plans that to get lit on fire that many different ways all at once. This is still a mech, not a volcano probe. The sad thing is that it’s so very easy to fix: drop two heatsinks, add a second ton of AC ammo, and a medium laser. Viola, now you generate a max of 13 heat and have 14 sinks, so heat isn’t totally irrelevant and the basic character of the mech is still the same. Plenty of other sensible things could also be done. Anything but what actually was done. Heck, the heatsinks doesn’t even make good crit padding since they aren’t in the same location as any of the explosive ammo. I don’t often call for ret-conning mechs, but I would support tweaking the A and C variants of the Hoplite. It’s gone beyond quirky or merely sub-optimal, into the realm of pointless.

Also, and this is just a personal thing, but I hate it when mechs with no arms mount full armor on their arm locations. Really, who is going to build a tiny but massively armored lump on the side of their mech and stick just enough actuators in it to make the lump wiggle a bit! There shouldn’t be that much armor if there basically isn’t an arm there!

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #10 on: 31 March 2018, 13:42:28 »
While i think it is supposed to stay out of enemy weapon range, i'd add some MGs rather than medium lasers, or perhaps a flamer. And swap the LRM pack for a bigger one, or add another 5-pack.

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7180
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #11 on: 31 March 2018, 13:50:22 »
Sorry, but the A and C are over-sinked. No one plans that to get lit on fire that many different ways all at once.
Each way can push it to the external heat limit, it doesn't have to be combined. That it can take a full on heat based ambush or walk through a firestorm is likely the only reason why it got adopted anyway. And as an Infantry support mech it is better that it takes the heat then its own infantry anyway. 
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
Nebula California: HyperTube Xtreme
Nebula Confederation Ships

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #12 on: 31 March 2018, 13:58:44 »
The 'Mech is not an urban combat (or similar terrain) 'Mech, so i don't think it should be there taking fire from enemy infantry. What it should be doing is to stand back and give heavy fire support to infantry. The armor is there to weather enemy 'Mech fire. The extra heat sinks are just plain waste.

IF the 'Mech were designed an urban combat 'Mech (eg weapon considered with cities in mind), with expectation of ambushes with infernos, then i could see reason for such massive oversinking.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40822
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #13 on: 31 March 2018, 14:09:05 »
I'm with glitterboy and Empyrus - the Hoplite is an effective infantry support mech because it mounts effective anti-armor weapons instead of MGs. A force consisting of infantry supported by armored units already has plenty of antipersonnel firepower - the infantry. ISVs(or in this case ISMs?) are there to cover the infantry's weaknesses, which unless you are spamming the battlefield with field guns means guns that can hurt armored units from farther away than six hexes or so. It's a nice bit of serendipity that a lot of weapons that fit this bill are also very good at making Stingers and Locusts go boom before they can do a number on the troops you're supporting.

The Hoplite's cannon fits that criteria nicely. Better yet, by putting all of this on a heavily armored chassis that mounts almost nothing else, you've got a mech that can survive drawing plenty of fire away from the infantry, and is cheap enough(both in universe and in terms of building a force) that you're not really pulling lots of resources away from your tank and mech formations. This is essentially a StuG III on legs.

I will agree that it's greatly oversinked, but that probably made it quite popular with Mechwarriors who found themselves stationed in Taurian space.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7180
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #14 on: 31 March 2018, 14:16:19 »
The 'Mech is not an urban combat (or similar terrain) 'Mech, so i don't think it should be there taking fire from enemy infantry. What it should be doing is to stand back and give heavy fire support to infantry. The armor is there to weather enemy 'Mech fire. The extra heat sinks are just plain waste.

IF the 'Mech were designed an urban combat 'Mech (eg weapon considered with cities in mind), with expectation of ambushes with infernos, then i could see reason for such massive oversinking.
I am assuming that as it is supporting its own infantry that it is also in an environment where it can become a target for enemy infantry ambushes.
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
Nebula California: HyperTube Xtreme
Nebula Confederation Ships

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40822
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #15 on: 31 March 2018, 14:24:11 »
3050u mentions plenty of Reunification War service on the Taurian front. They managed to make every cubic centimeter of that cluster(even outer space) into ideal infantry ambush territory. And now I'm sad that no Hoplites can jump, since that would make more a fun asteroid fight scenario.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Maingunnery

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7180
  • Pirates and C3 masters are on the hitlist
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #16 on: 31 March 2018, 14:30:55 »
3050u mentions plenty of Reunification War service on the Taurian front. They managed to make every cubic centimeter of that cluster(even outer space) into ideal infantry ambush territory. And now I'm sad that no Hoplites can jump, since that would make more a fun asteroid fight scenario.
A Space variant would be a nice 'unknown' Royal variant.  ;D
Herb: "Well, now I guess we'll HAVE to print it. Sounds almost like the apocalypse I've been working for...."

The Society:Fan XTRO & Field Manual
Nebula California: HyperTube Xtreme
Nebula Confederation Ships

Ruger

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5570
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #17 on: 31 March 2018, 15:00:42 »
I'm with glitterboy and Empyrus - the Hoplite is an effective infantry support mech because it mounts effective anti-armor weapons instead of MGs. A force consisting of infantry supported by armored units already has plenty of antipersonnel firepower - the infantry. ISVs(or in this case ISMs?) are there to cover the infantry's weaknesses, which unless you are spamming the battlefield with field guns means guns that can hurt armored units from farther away than six hexes or so. It's a nice bit of serendipity that a lot of weapons that fit this bill are also very good at making Stingers and Locusts go boom before they can do a number on the troops you're supporting.

The Hoplite's cannon fits that criteria nicely. Better yet, by putting all of this on a heavily armored chassis that mounts almost nothing else, you've got a mech that can survive drawing plenty of fire away from the infantry, and is cheap enough(both in universe and in terms of building a force) that you're not really pulling lots of resources away from your tank and mech formations. This is essentially a StuG III on legs.

I will agree that it's greatly oversinked, but that probably made it quite popular with Mechwarriors who found themselves stationed in Taurian space.

Hmm...reading all that, and seeing the modded mini above, gives me a really good idea for a new model for the Hoplite...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #18 on: 31 March 2018, 17:13:30 »
This keeps the Hoplite around even today, although with the capture of Arc-Royal by the Falcons may well be the final nail in the coffin of the Hoplite’s long life.
 

Wha?  How did I miss that!


Hoplite. It’s gone beyond quirky or merely sub-optimal, into the realm of pointless.
In a way I kinda have to salute the devs, both the FASA crew, and the modern ones.  Once I grew out of my munchkin phase and got through my "efficient" phase, I started appreciating some of the quirky and sub-optimal stuff.   I've even created some customs in those veins.  That said, I don't think I could bring myself to create and publish some of the "WTF were they thinking?" designs that have come out over the years. Well, maybe I could if the boss was standing at my desk with a pink slip in one hand and a paycheck in the other... My hat's off to those folks.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9590
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #19 on: 31 March 2018, 21:02:37 »
The name and armament has me thinking that it may have once meant to be a Centurion plus. Though what we got was... er...



It is one of those mechs that got better with age



Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

sadlerbw

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1679
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #20 on: 31 March 2018, 23:46:09 »
I'm with glitterboy and Empyrus - the Hoplite is an effective infantry support mech because it mounts effective anti-armor weapons instead of MGs. A force consisting of infantry supported by armored units already has plenty of antipersonnel firepower - the infantry. ISVs(or in this case ISMs?) are there to cover the infantry's weaknesses, which unless you are spamming the battlefield with field guns means guns that can hurt armored units from farther away than six hexes or so.

My problem with this line of thought is that, to me anyway, it makes far too many mechs qualify as ‘infantry support’. There isn’t really any set of features that identifies this as infantry support rather than being a trooper, or direct fire support, or anything else. If being decently armored and having anti-armor weapons makes something an infantry support mech, then the Zeus’s is an infantry support mech, and so is the Hunchback, and the Centurion, and anything else with a decently sized gun. Except they are not. None of those mechs scream ‘infantry support’ to me, but they meet the rather broad definition.

I get that helping protect crunchies from armored units is a useful way to support infantry, but pretty much every mech bigger than about 40 tons could do that job. Nothing about the Hoplite makes it especially good at that job, or better at it than any other job a mech might do. It can be an infantry support mech because the fluff says it is, but it could just as easily be fluffed as something else and make as much, or more, sense...to me anyway.

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7909
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #21 on: 01 April 2018, 00:14:39 »
There's some inferno hits and then there's basically having to dunk the damn thing in inferno gel to affect it, the Hoppy suffers from the latter.  Its grossly oversinked.

I think you underestimate the numbers of Taurian volunteers willing to bathe it in inferno gel back then, and their enthusiasm for the job.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40822
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2018, 00:23:46 »
My problem with this line of thought is that, to me anyway, it makes far too many mechs qualify as ‘infantry support’. There isn’t really any set of features that identifies this as infantry support rather than being a trooper, or direct fire support, or anything else. If being decently armored and having anti-armor weapons makes something an infantry support mech, then the Zeus’s is an infantry support mech, and so is the Hunchback, and the Centurion, and anything else with a decently sized gun. Except they are not. None of those mechs scream ‘infantry support’ to me, but they meet the rather broad definition.

I get that helping protect crunchies from armored units is a useful way to support infantry, but pretty much every mech bigger than about 40 tons could do that job. Nothing about the Hoplite makes it especially good at that job, or better at it than any other job a mech might do. It can be an infantry support mech because the fluff says it is, but it could just as easily be fluffed as something else and make as much, or more, sense...to me anyway.

You are absolutely correct, there's a whole lot of mechs that can work well in the infantry support role. The trick is assigning mechs to that role without the Mechwarrior-trained generals screaming about wastes of resources. The answer is to describe the mech from the beginning in that role, and to make it cheap and simple.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #23 on: 01 April 2018, 01:19:30 »
You are absolutely correct, there's a whole lot of mechs that can work well in the infantry support role. The trick is assigning mechs to that role without the Mechwarrior-trained generals screaming about wastes of resources. The answer is to describe the mech from the beginning in that role, and to make it cheap and simple.

And the Hoppy certinally falls into the cheap and simple category, and due to its overload of heatsinks you could put a less skilled MechWarrior into it without having to worry about them overheating and exploding.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12024
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #24 on: 01 April 2018, 02:21:33 »
And the Hoppy certinally falls into the cheap and simple category, and due to its overload of heatsinks you could put a less skilled MechWarrior into it without having to worry about them overheating and exploding.
i think i'd prefer an extra ton of LRM ammo and AC rounds instead of so many extra SHS.. so you can carry different support munitions.

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #25 on: 01 April 2018, 02:45:08 »
i think i'd prefer an extra ton of LRM ammo and AC rounds instead of so many extra SHS.. so you can carry different support munitions.

Oh I agree, drop 2 of the heatsinks and add 2 tons of ammo, you still have to dip the thing in lava to get it to overheat, but its more versatile for it.  Its not as bad as the Gargoyle Prime though, that thing runs so absurdly cold that I'm sure you could seed Venus's surface with them and help rapidly cool the planet. :s
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

BrokenMnemonic

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1447
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #26 on: 01 April 2018, 04:11:42 »
Given the sheer number of infantry regiments/divisions during the Star League era, how effective an infantry support 'Mech is the Hoplite, if you want something cheap, easy to support, and likely to end up fighting Firestarters, Vulcans and things with inferno launchers?

It's more interesting than optimal, and therefore better. O0 - Weirdo

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16594
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #27 on: 01 April 2018, 07:51:35 »
Those specific 'Mechs aren't what the SLDF would have been thinking of.  Vulcans aren't introduced until after the Amaris Coup and the Firestarter didn't really proliferate outside some use by the Lyrans, the SLDF, and more limited use by the Capellans until the 28th century introduction of the FSi-H, which includes machine guns for anti-infantry work.  Even then, it was mainly thought of as a scout and incendiary 'Mech, not an anti-infantry unit.

I'd think about Vedettes, Tigers, APCs, and later on Bulldogs as likely opponents, plus the occasional 'Mech, especially recon types scouting the infantry formation or cavalry/raider units looking to mission kill vehicles and deny the infantry their mechanized mobility.  A lance of Hoplites is enough to make thinly-armored lights or raiders more cautious.  They've also got enough concentrated firepower to hit a bunker pretty hard and quiet its guns so the infantry can take the strong point.

Ruger

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5570
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #28 on: 01 April 2018, 08:44:15 »
You are absolutely correct, there's a whole lot of mechs that can work well in the infantry support role. The trick is assigning mechs to that role without the Mechwarrior-trained generals screaming about wastes of resources. The answer is to describe the mech from the beginning in that role, and to make it cheap and simple.

While I don't disagree with you, I think that if that was the intent, it should have been made even slower (3/5), with more firepower/heat sinks...4/6 just seems a tad fast to go with most infantry...

But, that's just me...the Hoplite, as is, is mostly fine for the infantry support role...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12024
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite
« Reply #29 on: 01 April 2018, 08:49:15 »
While I don't disagree with you, I think that if that was the intent, it should have been made even slower (3/5), with more firepower/heat sinks...4/6 just seems a tad fast to go with most infantry...

But, that's just me...the Hoplite, as is, is mostly fine for the infantry support role...

Ruger

at 4/6 it can just keep pace with Motorized and most Mechanized platoons.