Author Topic: Anti-Air 'Mechs  (Read 17025 times)

SCC

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Anti-Air 'Mechs
« on: 21 November 2015, 00:15:38 »
I know the Rifleman and Jaggermech are dedicated AA designs, but are there any other 'Mechs designed primarily for AA work?

martian

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #1 on: 21 November 2015, 01:43:25 »
I know the Rifleman and Jaggermech are dedicated AA designs, but are there any other 'Mechs designed primarily for AA work?
'Mechs:
JM6-S and especially JM6-A JagerMech (per TRO3025); JM6-DD
LNC25-01 Lancelot (per TRO3050U)
RFL-2N Rifleman (XTRO:Primitives 4)
RFL-3N Rifleman (per TRO3025)
RFL-7M Rifleman (per TRO:Project Phoenix)
RFL-3N-2 Rifleman II (per TRO3075)
Deimos Prime (per TRO3085Sup)
Kodiak 3 (per TRO 3058U)
LGB-12C Longbow (per TRO:Project Phoenix)
Galahad 3 (per TRO3058U)
Helepolis (per TRO3075)
Dark Crow 2 (per TRO3085)
Ryoken II (per TRO3075)
ON1-K/ON1-V/ON1-V-DC Orion (TRO3025)

Combat vehicles:
Partisan Heavy Tank (per TRO3039)
Partisan Air Defense Tank (per TRO3058U)
Partisan AA Vehicle (per TRO3145/FWL)
Aesir AA Vehicle (per TRO3145/Clans)
MHI Defense AA Tank (per TRO 3145/Republic)
DI Schmitt often used as AA platform (per TRO3145/Steiner)
Oro Heavy Tank (TRO3060)
Gun Trailer AAA (per TRO 3145)
Hachiman AAA Tank (TRO3060)
Huitzilopochtli AAA Tank (TRO3060)
Pollux ADA Vehicle (Historical: Liberation of Terra 2)
Nike Air Defense Platform (XTRO:RetroTech)
Nuberu Anti-Aircraft Tank (TRO:Prototypes)
Estevez Tank AA variant (Era Digest: Age of War)

Infantry:
House Marik's AA Jump Infantry (TRO3085)
Anti-Air Infantry (HB:HM)
Clan AA Mechanized Infantry (TRO3085)

Mobile Structures:
Rattler AA (JHS:Terra)

Other:
Anti-Aerospace Bunker (JHS:Terra)
« Last Edit: 21 November 2015, 02:23:24 by martian »

Frabby

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #2 on: 21 November 2015, 02:02:21 »
The Orion fluff is a bit ambiguous on the matter. It may or may not be a dedicated AA 'Mech, but it is certainly noted to have the targeting/tracking system.
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mike19k

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #3 on: 21 November 2015, 02:02:35 »
Two quotes from TRO 3025 make me think that the Orion should also be on this list.
"The Death Bloom missile system is mounted on the
Orion's left shoulder . The system launches 15 longrange
missiles in a very concentrated pattern, which is
effective against both ground and air vehicles."

"An excellent assault 'Mech, the Orion is also very
good against enemy aircraft, as it can unleash a barrage
of missile fire . The Wasat Aggressor battle computer is
well-suited for this secondary role. Thus, an Orion
sometimes accompanies mobile HQs to defend against
both enemy 'Mechs and AeroSpace Fighters."

martian

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #4 on: 21 November 2015, 02:05:49 »
The Orion fluff is a bit ambiguous on the matter. It may or may not be a dedicated AA 'Mech, but it is certainly noted to have the targeting/tracking system.

Okay, added.

SCC

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #5 on: 21 November 2015, 02:58:56 »
So from the looks of things, in 3025 (The era I'm interested in a the moment) there's only the Rifleman, Jaggermech and Partisan.

As for infantry you want Field Gun Infantry/Motorized Batteries, Seventy-fifth L ight Guard, First Taurian Lancers, because otherwise the unit has to attack the infantry units square for them to attack it.

FedComGirl

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #6 on: 21 November 2015, 05:06:56 »
The Hatchetman has what could be described as an AA targeting system. I've heard of Blackjacks being used as a replacement Riflemans but I don't know if there's fluff for that. I've heard the same for the Lancelot.The Quickdraw was supposed to be a replacement for the Rifleman so it could be used for AA work.

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #7 on: 21 November 2015, 11:50:49 »
As for infantry you want Field Gun Infantry/Motorized Batteries, Seventy-fifth L ight Guard, First Taurian Lancers, because otherwise the unit has to attack the infantry units square for them to attack it. die.

Fixed that for you. Unless they use field guns/arty, or carry dedicated AA weapons(not available in 3025), infantry cannot fire on aeros at all, even when directly attacked.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #8 on: 21 November 2015, 13:43:59 »
there are a number of designs that would do well in the AA role but don't have the fluff saying so.

the Blackjack BJ-1 and BJ-1DC for example, with their AC2's.
the BJ2-OC with its LBX's.
the Bane/Kraken of the clans (at least the main version with all the UAC2's)


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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #9 on: 21 November 2015, 14:12:49 »

Well we can also look at the units in the MUL with the FLK special. However the highest levels of this special are only with units that specialize in using HAGs.
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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #10 on: 21 November 2015, 14:57:42 »
Memory is a bit rusty, but, IIRC, TRO3025/26/58 fluff for L1 units that are decent at AA =
Blackjack, Rifleman, Jagermech, Archer, Orion, Partisan & Longbow
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SCC

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #11 on: 22 November 2015, 00:54:42 »
OK, I generated a 3038 FS Battalion, and out of 30 'Mechs, 2 mounted AC/2's and thus would work as dedicated AA units covering the battalion (A Blackjack BJ-1 and a Vulcan VL-2T), and there are a couple that only carry light LRM load-outs (Valkyrie VLK-QA and Gladiator GLD-3R) so AA is probably passable. Beyond that, pulling the Orion off the line to shoot at ASFs sounds like it could be a problem, to say nothing of moving the LRM boats off that mission.

Jackmc

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #12 on: 22 November 2015, 04:42:41 »
The Orion fluff is a bit ambiguous on the matter. It may or may not be a dedicated AA 'Mech, but it is certainly noted to have the targeting/tracking system.

The computer is a definite maybe but the missile launcher is just a game mechanics artifact of the AT 1 system where the larger LRM racks were good AAA systems because they combined long range with multiple damage rolls which was good because ASF damage was kind of like old school vee damage tables where many locations on the hit chart included critical damage effects.

-Jackmc


FedComGirl

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #13 on: 22 November 2015, 05:08:01 »
OK, I generated a 3038 FS Battalion, and out of 30 'Mechs, 2 mounted AC/2's and thus would work as dedicated AA units covering the battalion (A Blackjack BJ-1 and a Vulcan VL-2T), and there are a couple that only carry light LRM load-outs (Valkyrie VLK-QA and Gladiator GLD-3R) so AA is probably passable. Beyond that, pulling the Orion off the line to shoot at ASFs sounds like it could be a problem, to say nothing of moving the LRM boats off that mission.

The Vulcan is not an AA Mech. It's an Anti-Infantry/Anti-Building mech.

mike19k

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #14 on: 22 November 2015, 05:11:03 »
The computer is a definite maybe but the missile launcher is just a game mechanics artifact of the AT 1 system where the larger LRM racks were good AAA systems because they combined long range with multiple damage rolls which was good because ASF damage was kind of like old school vee damage tables where many locations on the hit chart included critical damage effects.

-Jackmc

What game mechanics? AT1?

SCC

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2015, 15:08:14 »
The Vulcan is not an AA Mech. It's an Anti-Infantry/Anti-Building mech.
It mounts an AC/2 and not much else, it works as an AA 'Mech

martian

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #16 on: 22 November 2015, 15:17:36 »
It mounts an AC/2 and not much else, it works as an AA 'Mech
Sorry, but I guess I misunderstood you above. I thought that you are interested in 'Mechs either described or used "in universe" as anti-aircraft 'Mechs.

If you are interested simply in 'Mechs with AC-2, then you can choose from about a half dozen of AC-2-armed 'Mechs that are available in 3025 era.

As for the Vulcan, in-universe it has been used as anti-infantry and anti-building 'Mech.

Jackmc

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #17 on: 22 November 2015, 15:48:50 »
What game mechanics? AT1?

Yeah AT1, where you definitely did not want to get hit because the ASF hit chart was packed full of random nastiness.

-Jackmc


SCC

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #18 on: 22 November 2015, 17:03:14 »
Sorry, but I guess I misunderstood you above. I thought that you are interested in 'Mechs either described or used "in universe" as anti-aircraft 'Mechs.

If you are interested simply in 'Mechs with AC-2, then you can choose from about a half dozen of AC-2-armed 'Mechs that are available in 3025 era.

As for the Vulcan, in-universe it has been used as anti-infantry and anti-building 'Mech.
More any 'Mech that would be reasonably used in the AA role

glitterboy2098

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #19 on: 22 November 2015, 18:34:58 »
my general thing to look for..

if autocannons:
multiple light AC's (2's and 5's) to put up more chances for a hit (and thus a pilot check) at useful range.
multiple LBX AC's (10 or lower)
multiple tons of ammo (so you can load Flak/cluster)

if missiles:
larger LRM racks
multiple tons of ammo per rack (so you don't run dry and can afford to take less than ideal shots)

to be honest i'd prefer AC's for AA.. since they can get better to hits using the special ammo, and will usually have more shots per ton.

mike19k

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #20 on: 22 November 2015, 19:41:21 »
Yeah AT1, where you definitely did not want to get hit because the ASF hit chart was packed full of random nastiness.

-Jackmc

I was serous what game mechanics are you talking about? I do not know what AT1 is.

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #21 on: 22 November 2015, 22:36:02 »
It was the old AeroTech mechanics, for aerospace fighters.  And it was very unforgiving to the extent that like the old vehicle hit charts there were lots of ways that any hit could potentially do Bad Things to an ASF.  Much like the lawndart roll you were trying to pingspam them until you made a hit that caused Bad Things to happen, so you didn't need a lot of damage instead you wanted to hit as many times as possible starting as far away as possible so that you'd have a greater chance of one of them making a lucky hit.
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mike19k

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #22 on: 22 November 2015, 23:25:47 »
It was the old AeroTech mechanics, for aerospace fighters.  And it was very unforgiving to the extent that like the old vehicle hit charts there were lots of ways that any hit could potentially do Bad Things to an ASF.  Much like the lawndart roll you were trying to pingspam them until you made a hit that caused Bad Things to happen, so you didn't need a lot of damage instead you wanted to hit as many times as possible starting as far away as possible so that you'd have a greater chance of one of them making a lucky hit.

Yes in the original aerotech you could have lots of bad things happen. It may have been that I did not play it much, but I never saw it that bad. I kind of see it as the threw armor crits, I see some people saying how much they influence the game. I do not know if we have good or bad luck, but almost never happen on either side in my local group. Or at least not in the numbers others seam to have.

Also not sure what that really has to do with the Orion? As the fluff talks about the missiles being tighter and a better computer, and how it was used for both ground and anti-air.
« Last Edit: 22 November 2015, 23:34:28 by mike19k »

FedComGirl

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #23 on: 23 November 2015, 03:31:05 »
It mounts an AC/2 and not much else, it works as an AA 'Mech

Any mech can be used in an AA role. That doesn't mean every mech is designed as an AA Mech. Also a unit's ability to function in an AA role is not dependent upon it mounting an AC/2. Not every AA Unit mounts an AC/2. Flak does allow those units which aren't normally AA units to function more effectively in the AA role. However dedicated AA units start off more effective against air units and become even more so with Flak ammo.

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #24 on: 23 November 2015, 06:50:33 »
A funny little note. The Annihilator has the exact same Wasat Aggressor Type 5 targeting system as the Orion. It also generally has either 4 LB-10X's that can fire cluster or 4 AC/10's that can easily accept flak ammo (depending on period). That's gonna leave a mark. :)

As for the Longbow, the old 7Q has the "Anti-Air Flak Systems 1" targeting system, so it qualifies as well.

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #25 on: 09 December 2015, 16:12:11 »
I haven't seen the malice mentioned anywhere.  Both primary designs have 4 LBX ACs.  You can even customize it to give it 4 gauss rifles if so inclined.
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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #26 on: 10 December 2015, 03:05:10 »
The OP was interested in Fourth Succession War era mechs.  The Malice doesn't exactly fit that category.
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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #27 on: 10 December 2015, 03:33:57 »
Fixed that for you. Unless they use field guns/arty, or carry dedicated AA weapons(not available in 3025), infantry cannot fire on aeros at all, even when directly attacked.

According to the availability by eras listed in A Time of War, the Mark 1 AA weapon is available during the succession wars era, but exceedingly rare (availability code F). Interstellar Operations (beta) gives the same availability rating, but also lists them as extinct.

So AA infantry might actually exist in the succession wars era, but running into them might be a once in a lifetime event. And woe to the poor quartermaster who has to scrounge ammo for them!

(I just mention it because of the scene in Wolves on the Border where a Davion infantry unit fires missiles at an aerofighter flight).

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Jackmc

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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #28 on: 10 December 2015, 13:32:10 »
I was serous what game mechanics are you talking about? I do not know what AT1 is.

the original Aerotech game and the rules that were included in the Compendium.

-Jackmc


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Re: Anti-Air 'Mechs
« Reply #29 on: 23 December 2015, 16:38:56 »
According to the availability by eras listed in A Time of War, the Mark 1 AA weapon is available during the succession wars era, but exceedingly rare (availability code F). Interstellar Operations (beta) gives the same availability rating, but also lists them as extinct.

So AA infantry might actually exist in the succession wars era, but running into them might be a once in a lifetime event. And woe to the poor quartermaster who has to scrounge ammo for them!

(I just mention it because of the scene in Wolves on the Border where a Davion infantry unit fires missiles at an aerofighter flight).

Hrm, could this have been an LRM-5 in a field gun mounting?

 

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