Author Topic: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless  (Read 177052 times)

Maingunnery

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Space planes are kind of a dead concept, and I don't think that ArianaSpace has enough capacity for innovation to even make a decent attempt.
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Sabelkatten

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Well, at least part of the reason they died is that the technology wasn't up to the challenge, and the Space Shuttle wasn't a very good design...

A lot of the criticism I've seen of Skylon look just a bit silly (saw one now while browsing through the links that claimed "exotic fuels" - liquid Hydrogen isn't that special...). Sure it might turn out to be a bust, but a lot of people didn't believe SpaceX could manage either.

When it comes to ArianeSpace I do have to (unhappily) agree. The whole company structure looks too complicated to ever compete economically.

kato

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A article raised the question if ArianaSpace (Europian space agency's rocket maker) should make a reusable space plane, if it's would be feasible for them.
The article refers to Skylon. Without getting political, the UK will no longer be part of Europe come March 19th 2019. See the current discussion on Galileo for what that means.

Do you guys think that major Aerospace industrial companies be able to coop with SpaceX and arguably Blue Origin's movement with Reusable rockets?
Arianespace only develops on behalf of ESA, and is paid by them for it. And ESA has a mandate, and that is not to field a competitive launcher but to provide an autonomous European launch capability (aka "independent space access").

The whole company structure looks too complicated to ever compete economically.
The company structure was simplified a lot a while ago. It's nowadays owned ~75% by Airbus Defence & Space, ~10% by OHB SE (German satellite maker), ~3% each by RUAG, Avio and SABCA and ~1% each by half a dozen other companies.

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If a company - or especially a public space agency - cannot produce the tools needed at a reasonable price, then they deserve to go under. I'll leave it at that, but believe me, I have a loooong Rule 4-breaking rant about such matters.
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kato

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Hayabusa 2 is currently only 37.91 km from Ryugu, moving into parking position at 9 cm/s - which it should reach on Tuesday.

Picture from 100 km taken on Wednesday:


Wrangler

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When i saw that, it look like over size spinning 6-Sider
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ANS Kamas P81

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It's an ancient Borg cube, covered in untold millions of years of interstellar dust and debris.
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kato

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The shape is due to it rotating relatively fast, which squeezes the rubble pile material into the equatorial ridge.

kato

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40 km, better resolution:


Wrangler

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Definately a 8-sider dice shaped rock with a lovely crater.  The probe suppose to launch lander or something for spacecraft to catch some samples if i'm not mistaken. I'm curious how well these mini-rovers its going to employ going fair on this rough looking rock.
« Last Edit: 25 June 2018, 12:20:52 by Wrangler »
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Frabby

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If a company - or especially a public space agency - cannot produce the tools needed at a reasonable price, then they deserve to go under. I'll leave it at that, but believe me, I have a loooong Rule 4-breaking rant about such matters.
You've simplified that to the point of being wrong.
There isn't "a" set price for a rocket launch.
Stepping around the Rule 4 minefield myself here, I'll just point out that high-ranking ArianeSpace officials have complained that foreign competitors can undercut their prices because those competitors' home nations subsidize them, by ordering way overpriced launches from those competitors at the home market.
« Last Edit: 25 June 2018, 11:24:20 by Frabby »
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Wrangler

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Blue sands of Mars...

This was spotted by the Mars Recon Orbiter. 

Be interesting what made this formation on Mars. Red planet with dash of color.  ;D
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Weirdo

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Clearly, someone hit a vein. :)
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kato

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The probe suppose to launch lander or something for spacecraft to catch some samples if i'm not mistaken.
Four landers, but the samples are taken by the spacecraft itself after bombarding the asteroid.

I'm curious how well these mini-rovers its going to employ going fair on this rough looking rock.
The four daughtercraft are all "hoppers", not "rovers". I.e. they go from place to place by jumping, propelling themselves off the surface to land in another spot.
The roughness may have some impact on shading though, at least for the three solar-powered Minervas - Mascot runs on batteries only.

kato

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MASCOT onboard Hayabusa was first contacted again yesterday and is undergoing its annual health check.

Have some - pretty detailed - animation on Hayabusa, mostly on MASCOT (English version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H4aZX_8hMA

We're now at the 1:30 point. Most of the above focuses on MASCOT. The hops are a bit understated, they're supposed to be up to 70 meters at a time.

Sampling using SCI is shown at 5:40, all the way until they bombard Australia...

rebs

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An underground body of liquid water has recently been detected underneath Mars' south polar icecap. 

http://www.thescinewsreporter.com/2018/07/breaking-giant-lake-of-liquid-water.html

Also, in the realm of observation, Einstein's theory of General Relativity continues to be confirmed in the great galactic laboratory in the sky.  Details right here in this article about observations of a star that whipped passed the supermassive black hole at our galaxy's center.  Any closer, and it would have been the latest star to be devoured in the great gravity well.

https://www.space.com/41291-relativity-revealed-milky-way-core.html?utm_content=buffer3cb7b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
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ANS Kamas P81

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Ultrasaline, huh.  I sense a general attitude of "that ain't so tough, we've seen worse" from the exobiologist types, look at the bizarro seafloor things we keep finding. 
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kato

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From the article it looks to me like they found "liquid". Doesn't say it's water. The 205 K temperature ain't that far from the freezing point of liquid carbon dioxide...

ColBosch

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From the article it looks to me like they found "liquid". Doesn't say it's water. The 205 K temperature ain't that far from the freezing point of liquid carbon dioxide...

The article says "liquid water" over and over again, and addresses other possibilities.
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kato

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The article says "liquid water" over and over again, and addresses other possibilities.
They used radar, which doesn't really tell you much about the chemical makeup.

Full abstract: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/07/24/science.aar7268.full

They exclude liquid CO2 based on permittivity though:
Quote
Although the pressure and the temperature at the base of the SPLD would be compatible with the presence of liquid CO2, its relative dielectric permittivity is much lower (about 1.6) (28) than that of liquid water (about 80), so it does not produce bright reflections.
They pretty much base their entire argument around dielectric permittivities btw, using as their source a work from 1951 predating a ton of work done in the field. While referring to liquids at 20-25°C there, for CO2 at pressure of 50 atm, and in both cases pure liquids. Or in other words something entirely different than even the -170°C brine they propose. And i'm moderately sure the numbers are not for the 4 MHz frequency used either, since most of that standard table works with frequencies around 360-400 MHz - and yes, there's differences in return on that basis.

Given that the instrument they used is furthermore not ground-truth calibrated, they only refer to "bright reflections" in the sense of relative differences in radar echo.

Bedwyr

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1010 on: 11 August 2018, 03:14:05 »
Watching the Parker Solar Probe launch a little while ago. Unfortunately they called a no-go during the launch poll and I still haven’t heard more. Headed to bed.
Alas poor Photobucket. I knew him Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.

Wrangler

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1011 on: 11 August 2018, 17:08:05 »
Hope they figure out what's wrong with that Delta IV rocket.  Be sad if the thing malfunctioned on everyone.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1012 on: 11 August 2018, 22:09:42 »
She goes up in the morning, 0331 EST / 0731Z.  Good luck, Delta.
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Wrangler

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1013 on: 17 August 2018, 10:50:17 »
Hayabusa 2 is nearly at Ryugu, it's now less than 2,800 feet from the 'roid. 



Their getting good pictures of the surface. Sure is weird way the 'roid's shape took.
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kato

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1014 on: 17 August 2018, 11:09:14 »
Hayabusa 2 is nearly at Ryugu, it's now less than 2,800 feet from the 'roid. 
They're currently that low in order to measure the gravity of Ryugu.

kato

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1015 on: 23 August 2018, 12:40:42 »
Landing sites for Hayabusa-II (first touchdown), MASCOT, MINERVA-II-1-ROVER-1A and MINERVA-1-II-ROVER-1B have been selected:



Larger Picture

The landing site selection was somewhat problematic as the surface of Ryugu is not as expected; no landing patch without boulders larger than 3m has been found. In addition for the Hayabusa-II touchdowns they want areas with relatively fresh material instead of weathered surface material, something only found around the equator. MASCOT and MINERVA-II-1 will land closer to the poles for a wider picture - MINERVA-II-1 in the northern hemisphere, MASCOT in the southern hemisphere. MINERVA-II-1 consists of two hopping rovers (A and B) released simultaneously into the same landing zone. For both MASCOT and MINERVA-II-1 the landing zones are relatively big in comparison since Hayabusa-II basically just ejects them at 200ft altitude and they then crash onto the surface where they bounce until they come to a standstill. Due to physical geometry this will take longer for the two MINERVA-II-1 rovers btw. All three rovers have built-in mechanisms to hop to another surface point later on.

For the three sites selected for the first touchdown of Hayabusa-II itself, L-08 is the primary one. It is 12.7% covered by boulders, while L-07 is 16.8% covered. M-04 as the second backup site has less boulders than L-08 - the only site among those considered - but is also not on the fresh-material equatorial zone.

Wrangler

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1016 on: 24 August 2018, 06:34:51 »
Fresh material, that not good right?  They don't have any drilling mechanisms to go deep.

I wonder if Ryugu had more recent encounter with something to create the fresh material?
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kato

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1017 on: 24 August 2018, 11:19:03 »
Fresh material, that not good right?
Nah, it's specifically what they're looking for - inner material that hasn't been eroded by solar wind etc, that is material that is "still fresh".

Basically they want the blue material in this:


The equatorial region is equivalent to the bulge visible in earlier pictures, probably pushed out and cleaned somewhat of older regolith through its rotation, flinging material there off the surface. The surface itself across the asteroid is "uniformly diversified" - i.e. it contains very diverse material, but in the same mix everywhere.

They don't have any drilling mechanisms to go deep.
For the third touchdown a shaped charge EFP warhead will be fired at the site first to crater it. Doesn't dig all that deep either but craters pretty well (note: turn down volume).

Weirdo

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1018 on: 24 August 2018, 12:52:46 »
First harpoons, now missiles...has anyone told probe designers that the word is 'lithobraking', not 'lithobreaking'?
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Daryk

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Re: Deep Space and Interplanetary Exploration - The Universe is Timeless
« Reply #1019 on: 24 August 2018, 12:56:17 »
That made me laugh out loud... good one, Weirdo!  :thumbsup: