Damocles . . .

[Templar87]

You aren't wrong. I kind of glazed over it when I read past it, assuming that it was something in Shattered Fortress of ilClan I had forgotten about and would circle back around to later. And now it's later and there isn't anything in either. Heck in ilClan he's still missing. So I suspect we'll see something in Dominions Divided.

It does kind of need some filling in, considering what we've got (pre-Damocles Sanction) goes from Alex being "On the run in the Capellan March after the fall of New Syrtis, trying to rally resistance against the Cappies" (FM 3145) to "Just not mentioned at all" (Shattered Fortress) to "Has always been MIA since the invasion of New Syrtis" (ilClan).

[BrianDavion]

So one thing that's been discussed in this book is Toranaga's warcrimes, and how they didn't really do a good job selling that he commited them. we're TOLD he commited warcrimes and that if he'd gone to trial a death setence was garenteed, but we're not really shown that, in fact we're told the DC kept a fairly light touch so I dunno it feels like  there's a bit of a "cognative dissonance" in the narrative there.

[Colt Ward]

Light touch = no looting & pillaging . . .

[Angrii]

So one thing that's been discussed in this book is Toranaga's warcrimes, and how they didn't really do a good job selling that he commited them. we're TOLD he commited warcrimes and that if he'd gone to trial a death setence was garenteed, but we're not really shown that, in fact we're told the DC kept a fairly light touch so I dunno it feels like  there's a bit of a "cognative dissonance" in the narrative there.

There's a whole lot of that in this book; being told and not shown. That, and the pages upon pages of exposition, made it a bit of a dull read.

[Jellico]

So one thing that's been discussed in this book is Toranaga's warcrimes, and how they didn't really do a good job selling that he commited them. we're TOLD he commited warcrimes and that if he'd gone to trial a death setence was garenteed, but we're not really shown that, in fact we're told the DC kept a fairly light touch so I dunno it feels like  there's a bit of a "cognative dissonance" in the narrative there.

Exhaling on New Avalon is a chemical attack. Davion honor demands a dead warlord. Given the way the DCMS plays there will be something they can pin on Toranaga. But is is hardly going to be Kentares.

[Orwell84]

Exhaling on New Avalon is a chemical attack. Davion honor demands a dead warlord. Given the way the DCMS plays there will be something they can pin on Toranaga. But is is hardly going to be Kentares.

There's the execution of the New Avalon Catholic Church pope and cardinals simply for practicing their religion, the thousands of civilians killed after the January 5 protests, and those murdered by the DCMS during the liberation. The Combine might view all of this as collateral damage or justified; the FedSuns holds itself to a higher standard and (right or wrong) judges its enemies by the same criteria.

One interesting little detail: in chapter 14 when Yori is holding court on Luthien there's mention of a Buckminster Military District. From Buckminster's location near the RasDom border it seems like a new Alshain-esque buffer zone has been created. Perhaps Yori might have created a fifth Warlord position for balance of power reasons and/or to expand her power base within the DCMS against Toranaga.

[phoenixalpha]

Exhaling on New Avalon is a chemical attack. Davion honor demands a dead warlord. Given the way the DCMS plays there will be something they can pin on Toranaga. But is is hardly going to be Kentares.

There is more than enough evidence of warcrimes I imagine. The definition is a bit loose. I'm sure there were civilians killed as well as destroying cultural identities and buildings. I'm fairly sure that there were civilians killed and civilian property that was destroyed during the initial invasion and the retaking of New Avalon at the very least which is a warcrime.

[abou]

There's a whole lot of that in this book; being told and not shown. That, and the pages upon pages of exposition, made it a bit of a dull read.

Thank god I'm not the only one who noticed that.

I wasn't a fan of the book. I found it pretty boring with more than its fair share of typos and plotting/pacing problems. I understand why Erik and Julian have their grievances with each other, but I don't feel it when I read the book. It's just been told that it is a concern rather than seen. If I want that, I can watch Star Wars movies again.

[RanFelsnerAFFS]

Not my read at all . . . Gavin Marik-Davion is part (or maybe head) of the Cuiratis Organization.  Gavin did give intel to at least Erik, and I think Aaron as well . . . but he was the one at the end of one of the MWDA books sitting in Markeson Pride discussing services with Julian.  And handing him the information Julian did not previously have showing HE was supposed to be Harrison's heir and that Caleb was bonkers.

Wasn't Gavin part of the Illuminati (slighty recall sth along those lines from the scene on Terra, where he gives Julian the data on Caleb... was it in Sword of Sedition?)

It is fittingly however that Sarna does not have any article on Curaitis (neither the original nor the organization). Very appropriate for an Agent/nebulous secret society ;)

There's a whole lot of that in this book; being told and not shown. That, and the pages upon pages of exposition, made it a bit of a dull read.

Sad but true. Felt like a sourcebook at times.

[Colt Ward]

Dominions Divided was supposed to have come out by this point which to me makes this like the two novellas w/Shattered Fortress, the one with Tamar Rising, and the Dragoon one with Empire Alone.

Pretty sure Gavin points to Cuiratis . . . and IIRC Sword was his last contact w/ Eric S-G and it was Fortress where he contacted Julian.

[GuyIncognito]

My favorite part of the book is the imposing height of the Taurian ambassador who towered over the local nobles.

[Kibutsu]

Thank god I'm not the only one who noticed that.

I wasn't a fan of the book. I found it pretty boring with more than its fair share of typos and plotting/pacing problems. I understand why Erik and Julian have their grievances with each other, but I don't feel it when I read the book. It's just been told that it is a concern rather than seen. If I want that, I can watch Star Wars movies again.

I feel the same. There was so much secondhand story that could have been better told as narrative. We're left with no real sense of tension or drama, and instead it reads more like a sourcebook in large parts. There are also the usual number of and editing mistakes which should have been caught and corrected. There is one chapter that mistakenly occurs in 3152 sandwiched in the middle of 3151, then at the end we're on New Avalon with Julian on 30 June, 3152, then he's in the Robinson system on 21 September, then he lands on Robinson on 20 June 3152. Wtf? Also, how did the invasion fleet make landfall on New Avalon in 9 hours? The journey is supposed to take 7.5 days. Pirate point would be the obvious answer, but the chapter heading clearly places the action at the nadir jump point. Maybe I'm missing something. And who the eff is Weiss? This stuff is all throughout the book, and most of it seems to be leftovers from an early draft, but it's easy to spot on a first read through and should be corrected at some point in the editing cycle.

In all, this was a fairly long book that had a lot to accomplish. I'm speculating that the author was under the gun to tell a huge, important story in a single novel where it could have been split into two volumes, which would have allowed him to go into more detail. I like the author and enjoyed his other novels, but this one, to me, felt like it was rushed out the door in order to get it on the release schedule.

[bobthecoward]

If Erik doesn't want the throne(he says so), why is it a problem for Julian if the Draconis March is more powerful and Erik is more popular?

[Colt Ward]

If Erik doesn't want the throne(he says so), why is it a problem for Julian if the Draconis March is more powerful and Erik is more popular?

 . . . because while Eric might not want it, he thinks the person sitting in the throne is not doing the job right and is comparing the results/actions with when he was Regent.

[bobthecoward]

. . . because while Eric might not want it, he thinks the person sitting in the throne is not doing the job right and is comparing the results/actions with when he was Regent.

Inferiority complex? Is that actually a threat to him or the Suns?

[Colt Ward]

How did you get inferiority complex?

No, Erik thinks Julian is not doing the job correctly and thinks he did better when he was Regent.  Therefore, he does want want the Suns to languish under what he thinks is bad leadership merely because it has the last name of Davion- so even though Erik does not want it, he can and will do the job right in his opinion.  So he is going to do it.

[bobthecoward]

How did you get inferiority complex?

No, Erik thinks Julian is not doing the job correctly and thinks he did better when he was Regent.  Therefore, he does want want the Suns to languish under what he thinks is bad leadership merely because it has the last name of Davion- so even though Erik does not want it, he can and will do the job right in his opinion.  So he is going to do it.

So he does want to be first prince or lord of the Draconis March?

And if he wants to be first prince, why not let him? Julian would probably like to focus on being lord of the crucis march, only.

[abou]

So he does want to be first prince or lord of the Draconis March?

And if he wants to be first prince, why not let him? Julian would probably like to focus on being lord of the crucis march, only.

Because that isn't how it works?

It would have been nice to have seen any real examples of Erik's motivations. We certainly got a lot of, "It's what I would do were I in his position," but not a lot of real discussion on the matter. It simply seems they are butting heads because of author fiat rather than anything else.

[DavyJones]

  Having just restarted reading the novels after a hiatus The big thing I took away from this book is a dislike for Erik . It feels like he thinks he's on the same lvl as Toranaga and Julian should just be a good little puppet and do as he says . My take away from The final fight on New Avalon when Erik left his area of responsibility to hunt Toranaga instead of allowing Julian to possibly have a chance at the Honor or Glory of dropping him did not exactly cast him a positive light for me . I could respect him having different thoughts on how to proceed but My take is it feels more like he's just doing it to take the contrary point to be at odds with Julian . The Privy Council was dumb for forcing Erik on Julian now they created a situation where this is more then likely going to rock the Fed Suns in ways it can ill afford .

[BrianDavion]

  Having just restarted reading the novels after a hiatus The big thing I took away from this book is a dislike for Erik . It feels like he thinks he's on the same lvl as Toranaga and Julian should just be a good little puppet and do as he says . My take away from The final fight on New Avalon when Erik left his area of responsibility to hunt Toranaga instead of allowing Julian to possibly have a chance at the Honor or Glory of dropping him did not exactly cast him a positive light for me . I could respect him having different thoughts on how to proceed but My take is it feels more like he's just doing it to take the contrary point to be at odds with Julian . The Privy Council was dumb for forcing Erik on Julian now they created a situation where this is more then likely going to rock the Fed Suns in ways it can ill afford .

I agree. Erik isn't a good Prince's Champion, he's a horriable one. His literal every thought is about his own glory.

He NEVER thinks of the greater fedsuns except when it just so HAPPENS to benifit him. the guy's utterly unlikable, and I'm calling it here, he's going to end up over reaching, get killed and... Julian'll proably have a long bloody war with someone as a result.

[mikecj]

Well the Suns is almost put back together... time for another civil war.  Just as the Combine & Confederation start getting smarter.  That'll end well.

At least with the Dragoons baiting Aaric, he's probably looking in the other direction instead of jumping in.

[VensersRevenge]

A Prince's Champion would be a good representative to the IlClan, and if Alaric decides he doesn't like Erik Groell and kills him, that would solve the Suns divided leadership quite nicely. Or even better if he gets killed by the Capellans in their inevitable conflict with the Wolves.

[BrianDavion]

The fact that Erik's reation to Julian asking him at the end to do the tradtional duties of a prince's champion was basicly "****** up, I'm gonna do my duke of robinson thing, but I'll rebel if you strip me of my position of prince's champion" for me was the final straw.

Julian literally asked him to do his job, a job Erik had just been thinking Julian hadn't really allowed him to do (apparently it never occured to Erik that he needed to earn Julian's trust,  having been appointed Champion by Julians batshit insane predecessor) and his reaction was to assume Julian was trying to screw him over.

[mikecj]

Maybe Gavin will fix that little problem for us.

[BrianDavion]

Maybe Gavin will fix that little problem for us.

Doubtful, he seems to be quietly enchouraging it. we know the principal voice egging Erik to distrust Julian is working for Gavin

[Spirit Cat Refugee]

The fact that Erik's reation to Julian asking him at the end to do the tradtional duties of a prince's champion was basicly "****** up, I'm gonna do my duke of robinson thing, but I'll rebel if you strip me of my position of prince's champion" for me was the final straw.

Julian literally asked him to do his job, a job Erik had just been thinking Julian hadn't really allowed him to do (apparently it never occured to Erik that he needed to earn Julian's trust,  having been appointed Champion by Julians batshit insane predecessor) and his reaction was to assume Julian was trying to screw him over.

Is Erik still Prince's Champion at the end of the novel? I got the impression Erik didn't want it anymore.

Yeah, I felt while there were legit conflicts between Erik and Julian in the novel, the amount of tension still felt contrived. Also, I don't get why Caleb, the Mad Prince was barely mentioned at all in this novel. They're still recovering from his antics, and Erik seems to have escaped any flak from being Caleb's champion. You'd think Julian at least would hold that against Erik.

[Generalripphook]

For me the Erik-Julian definitely felt contrived, then you started to get information about Gavin's agent feeding that on Eriks side and it explained it a little but more in a handwavy sort of way. Gavin is clearly part of the next big faction reveal hopefully it's not just WOB.2

The Marsh Lords just feel like the Warlords of the Combine with a few extra steps and a lot more lee-way since it seems the First Prince can't just have them murdered. Part of me wonders if this is intentional as you have two very similarly structured houses that hate each other with a passion. Combine those two things and it feels like we have another civil war coming up. Which I am not too worried about I just hope they don't spend so much time on House Davion.

Overall, I did enjoy the book.

[BrianDavion]

local lrods bucking the "king" is part of battletech's flavor and everyhouse has this, well except the cappies, because..... ****** if I know,

[Colt Ward]

local lrods bucking the "king" is part of battletech's flavor and everyhouse has this, well except the cappies, because..... ****** if I know,

Because Candace did it successfully (SIC), and even though they were re-absorbed Kai then burned through Capellan forces in the 3080s.

[tassa_kay]

well except the cappies, because..... ****** if I know,

Because the CapCon stresses loyalty to the State above all else and doesn't let their lords run around doing stupid ****. It's not rocket science.