The Dying Time, how would you refight this battle

[DEZOAT]

 OK people how would you fight this battle. You have GDL , 15 Lyran Guard , 36 Lyran Guard and DDF. Now how would you fight and place your forces.Then what was stated in the book. I think the whole book was everyone in it was taking stupid pill big time. The one that drove me nutty was the placement of the 36th , they should been pair with DDF at the Mech plant. But in book they were put on other side of HesperueII. IMO I think they have agood force to protect hesperusII. Ok everyone here what your take on this Battle.

[MOrab46019]

I would have to reread everything but wasn't the 36 protecting something else? That is why they were not moved.

[FedSunsBorn]

First, I would deploy the GDL aerospace wing to assist the Avalon Cruiser. Additional fighters might have helped stave off the boarding party shuttles. Also, I might deploy some of the GDL powered armor units as additional security on the ship itself. Whatever marines the Avalon had seemed to have gotten beat really quick since the main CiC and bridge got taken out within a remarkably short period of time for being buried inside the cruiser several levels down from any nearby hatches. (Or at least I think that is what the fluff has on the Avalon...could be wrong.)

If that works, then I have basically won the battle since the Avalon can interdict the planet from the arriving 4th Sky Rangers and other invading forces that come later. Maybe not completely since stray ships can probably land on the planet but definitely not in any kind of force concentration.

If the Sky Rangers are allowed to land in this scenario regardless of the aerospace battles, then I would definitely concentrate all forces on the main Defiance plant buried in the mountain or at worst, Marie's Elegy as well(not sure if I spelled that named city right). Defiance provides a solid wall of defenses that is already a tough nut to crack and with 2 RCT's backed up by GDL's two additional reinforced battalions roaming the area and set up in field camps around Defiance. I don't think any ground force could take the plant itself. Any attack by the defenders needs to be in at least two battalion sized groups in order to fight effectively imo but I would really just let the rest of the planet get taken since no one really cares about anything but the main Defiance plant.

[Archangel]

Well in the first place I wouldn't have stationed the GDL on Hesperus in the first place especially after what happened during their previous visit.  If anything Katherine should have sent them to the Clan border where their experience fighting the Falcons would have been handy.  They could have freed up a more reliable unit better suited for deployment to Hesperus II.

Another issue that I had was that both line units were stripped of their aerospace support.  I mean seriously, the most important manufacturing facility in the Lyran Alliance and you strip the defenders of their aerospace support.  While the warship was helpful, there is only so much of the space above Hesperus II that a single warship can patrol.

Third issue was that there was no clear chain of command. The 36th was semi-independent and was able to refuse orders that would have probably forced the Free Skye Forces to withdraw and reconsider their options.

Final issue, what were the 15th Lyran Guards even doing on Hesperus II in the first place?  After the 14th Battle of Hesperus II, the 15th Lyran Guards were significantly understrength and were given little opportunity to rebuild as they were assigned to Operation Bulldog before being reassigned to Hesperus II.  During that time another Loyalist, such as the 26th Lyran Guards, should have been permanently assigned to garrison Hesperus II along with the 36th Lyran Guards.

The 36th was assigned to defend the Maldon mining complex (of far lesser value than the production facilities).  After they initially refused orders to redeploy to assist in the defense of the main manufacturing facilities (citing their standing orders to defend the mining complex), the 17th Skye Rangers were later deployed to pin them down.  The arrival of the 14th Lyran Guards finally forced the 36th into the fight.

[Marveryn]

never undrstood why the legion wasn't hold up already inside the factory to start with and certainly not after the initial landing of enemy forces.   Dividing there forces to protect an area they couldn't defend was out right insane  best responce after they lost the aerospace forces was to hunker down with the rest of the factory defender and force the sky to take them inside the complex where the natural mountain fixture gave a huge home court advantage.  second why did they waste there aerospace forces in a meaninless fight.  if they knew they weren't going to survive sucide is out right idiotic, your mercs if you can turn around and land inside the factory and protect your fighter for a chance later to use then surrender.  Fighting for the last man is clan thing.

[Hptm. Streiger]

Don't use a train... it had worked once on Glengarry but the Skye Rangers are no idiots - they have fought the Legion before...the War-Dog pilot should get a medal for his doing.
The GDL fought in the open - their enemys were the 4.Skye Ranger...one of the best line regiments of the inner sphere - but now with a flexible commander not like in the 4.SW with a traditional officer - what did they expect

[WarGod]

used H2's mountainous to my advantage.  Plus I would have Mined Lines of approach.  Transport by train would NOT have been done (rather vulnrable way to move your assets. would rather have them Convoy out), If I had to use the train I would have had better security.

[Nahuris]

Well in the first place I wouldn't have stationed the GDL on Hesperus in the first place especially after what happened during their previous visit.  If anything Katherine should have sent them to the Clan border where their experience fighting the Falcons would have been handy.  They could have freed up a more reliable unit better suited for deployment to Hesperus II.

Another issue that I had was that both line units were stripped of their aerospace support.  I mean seriously, the most important manufacturing facility in the Lyran Alliance and you strip the defenders of their aerospace support.  While the warship was helpful, there is only so much of the space above Hesperus II that a single warship can patrol.

Third issue was that there was no clear chain of command. The 36th was semi-independent and was able to refuse orders that would have probably forced the Free Skye Forces to withdraw and reconsider their options.

Final issue, what were the 15th Lyran Guards even doing on Hesperus II in the first place?  After the 14th Battle of Hesperus II, the 15th Lyran Guards were significantly understrength and were given little opportunity to rebuild as they were assigned to Operation Bulldog before being reassigned to Hesperus II.  During that time another Loyalist, such as the 26th Lyran Guards, should have been permanently assigned to garrison Hesperus II along with the 36th Lyran Guards.

The 36th was assigned to defend the Maldon mining complex (of far lesser value than the production facilities).  After they initially refused orders to redeploy to assist in the defense of the main manufacturing facilities (citing their standing orders to defend the mining complex), the 17th Skye Rangers were later deployed to pin them down.  The arrival of the 14th Lyran Guards finally forced the 36th into the fight.

This, with one caviat...... I would have had the GDL as a reserve strike force, not a defender.... the GDL has always been better on the attack, than on the defense..... their whole combat doctrine relies on movement and concentrated fire, relying on time based coordination...... something that is very difficult when doing static defense.

Nahuris

[guardiandashi]

the other thing I would like to know is where the "long history" of constant contract violations and poor behavior of GDL troops comes from that people keep citing, because in the material I have there were a whole 2 incidents of contract violations that the GDL did, 1 was on helm/the laio planet they took for marik (where they were framed by comstar) the other was the incident alex was involved in (project excalibur or something) where they followed the INTENT of their orders not the letter.

[Caesar Steiner for Archon]

Final issue, what were the 15th Lyran Guards even doing on Hesperus II in the first place?  After the 14th Battle of Hesperus II, the 15th Lyran Guards were significantly understrength and were given little opportunity to rebuild as they were assigned to Operation Bulldog before being reassigned to Hesperus II.  During that time another Loyalist, such as the 26th Lyran Guards, should have been permanently assigned to garrison Hesperus II along with the 36th Lyran Guards.

Well, they were only about a third understrength, and they were one of the most skilled and best equipped units in the LCAF at that time.  I would say posting them to Hesperus as a secondary force was a sound idea.  The fact that they weren't at full strength is why the GDL got called in.  Remember, they're mercenaries: everyone's first priority is House troops, then mercenaries.

[SteelRaven]

the other thing I would like to know is where the "long history" of constant contract violations and poor behavior of GDL troops comes from that people keep citing, because in the material I have there were a whole 2 incidents of contract violations that the GDL did, 1 was on helm/the laio planet they took for marik (where they were framed by comstar) the other was the incident alex was involved in (project excalibur or something) where they followed the INTENT of their orders not the letter.

Keep in mind that statement was first made in the middle of the civil war when both sides where manipulating mercenaries (Operation Excalibur, Highlanders Gambit) and both side may not want the risk of Alex leading a new GDL looking for revenge.   

[Stormlion1]

I'm the GDL? Change sides, its what they do.