Interesting dilemma- Rebuilding a Bloodname House

[Alan Grant]

I was pondering a bit of a conundrum. It occurred to me after reading Era Digest: Golden Century for about the 10th time. In that document the Loremaster of Clan Mongoose talks about a decision the Clan made that may have been a poor one. As the Eugenics Program came online and Trueborn warriors began to appear, each Clan made a decision whether to allow a warrior to pick a bloodhouse or give them an option of fighting for either (genemother/genefather). As a result those earlier generations got twice as many chances to earn a bloodname. So the Loremaster seems to theorize that it may have diluted the Clan's strength through lesser skilled bloodnamed warriors and officers, a fact that may have come back to haunt the Clan later (the Loremaster described this as a cancer in their midst).

Fastforward closer to the more recent era, particularly around the time that Clan Nova Cat is Abjured.

I could see a dilemma like this happening again. We presume that the bloodcount of a bloodname (whether it's 25 or less) has a corresponding relationship to the number of warriors born into the bloodname house. An atmosphere of tough competition is created, offering more than enough warriors to fill the Trials of Bloodright and make it competitive to preserve the prestige of earning that bloodname.

But take a bloodname that is split across more than one Clan. As an example the bloodname of Ryder, which originated in Clan Nova Cat but was not exclusive to that Clan, lets say several other Clans possess genetic legacies from that bloodname, even if the majority control lies with Clan Nova Cat, it has bloodnamed members in other Clans.

Then one day suddenly, Clan Nova Cat is abjured. The Ryder bloodnamed warriors are cast out or killed. The bloodname lives on and the bloodname house is reconstituted beneath the umbrella of one of the Clans that control the most legacies to it.

The Abjurement suddenly makes available many bloodnames. Lets assume for discussion sake, the Bloodname had a Bloodcount of 18. 10 Bloodnamed members were abjured or killed with the Nova Cats. Those 10 bloodheritages are now available for Trials of Bloodright.

The potential problem this creates is similar to the Clan Mongoose example. With so many chances to try for a Bloodname, even lesser warriors may find their odds of earning one boosted significantly. More chances to win, more chances to earn a nomination. You could loose a Trial of Bloodright this week and then jump into the one scheduled for next month. Furthermore, the bulk of the unblooded contenders could have gone with the Nova Cats. The other Clans possessing Ryder genetic legacy control weren't expecting the volume of so many Trials of Bloodright for this name focused on their Clan and so fewer warriors of eligible bloodline are available because fewer warriors of appropriate bloodheritage were bred. The prospects of earning a bloodname have improved greatly.

How do you think such a think would be handled? Would they simply let it slide? The obvious conundrum is that so many bloodheritages left open means those potential seats in a Clan Council are empty and the Clan's political power is greatly reduced. So filling them quickly could be of paramount importance to the political future of the House. The younger unblooded warriors in the House would be clambering for it. But at the same time, the risk of diluting the House's strength by bloodnaming some lessor warriors exist.

Something to think about.

[joechummer]

The easiest way would be to Reave the Abjured Bloodlines.

Let's take your example of 18 total, with 10 of them being Abjured Nova Cats.  Reave the Bloodname down to 8 (or maybe 9, if you're feeling generous); clearly, with so many traitors, the Bloodname has lost some prestige anyway and is already overdue for a Reaving.  Also, since there aren't any more Bloodnames to win (or there's only 1 left, if you Reave down to 9), this weeds out the possibility of too many substandard warriors winning a Bloodname that wouldn't have won one otherwise.

Then, if the remaining 8 Bloodnamed warriors happen to distinguish themselves and thus exonerate the traitorous taint associated with that Bloodname, the House could eventually call for a Propagation and steadily increase their Bloodcount.

[Hawkeye Jim]

It seems to me the total number of Bloodnames has shrunk considerably. They lost 40 with Wolverine, most of the same with Smoke Jaguar and Nova cat, 8 with Coyote.......

[Stormlion1]

An example of what he's talking about look at the Wolves in Exile, they were abjured but when Vlads Wolves were created they staged trials to take over the abjured bloodnames. Vlad himself taking the bloodname of Phelan. Situation ends up with their being two sets of the same bloodname running around.

[Kit deSummersville]

Well the other issue with Clan Mongoose is that they filled all the spots too quickly. If your bloodname has been Reaved down to, say 8 names, even if you could, it wouldn't be a good idea to suddenly spring back up to 40 and fill them all. A more gradual approach would allow the pool of warriors to refresh and also be staggered out.

[Alan Grant]

Here are my thoughts on my own question.

The thing with a Reaving on that scale is that it would be immensely unpopular with the Bloodname House Leader, and the warriors within, bloodnamed and not. They'd fight a Trial of Refusal for every one (a House Leader who didn't would probably be voted out), and the rules of odds say they'd probably win a few matches.

On the flip side of the issue, a warrior from another Bloodname House has to call the Reaving for each and every bloodright/bloodcount on this House. By doing so, per Clan tradition, the next time that Bloodname House suffers a death, that House suffers a Reaving vote as well. This mechanism ensures that the Reaving process is not taken lightly. It means any Bloodname House that puts itself forward as the Reaving party could be put in serious jeopardy themselves later.

All together, as many as 20 Bloodheritages/Bloodcount from different Bloodname Houses could be lost (or at least in jeopardy) as a result of this (10 from this House, 10 from others). In the eyes of the Bloodname Houses, that may simply be unacceptable to them. Unless they see major political advantage (such as removing the potential votes of an opposing political bloc in the Clan).

The other thing to consider. The book Warriors of Kerensky also tells us that reactivated bloodnames (Reaved Bloodrights brought back online) are generally scorned. So in terms of the prestige of the House as a whole, if you are the House Leader deciding what course of action to support, it might be almost better for you to let it ride, allow those bloodrights to continue. You put your faith on the warriors in question who earn those bloodnames being good enough to fill the void. In the meantime, you get the ball rolling on dramatically increasing the number of Trueborns of that Bloodname House that are birthed in the next several cycles. So that in 20-30 years or so, the problem may be eliminated by increased competition in subsequent generations of warriors. So you stall for time really.

It would be a gamble. The Bloodname House may be flooded with an unpredictable mix of excellent/good/mediocre bloodnamed warriors. You hope they perform well enough that it doesn't bring down the reputation of the House so badly that Trials of Reaving crop up in the next few years to come. Even if Trials of Reaving are called after this generation of warriors earns their bloodnames and die in combat, the hope would be that enough perform well enough that the Trial of Reaving are very few in number. On the scale of a handful or less, rather than 10, when even a Propagation that brings many of them back in years to come may or may not happen, and it can be reliably predicted that those reactivated Bloodrights will be scorned by many.

So there are some additional thoughts to consider. I'd still love to know what course people think this would take.

[Hawkeye Jim]

Don't Clans sometimes leave some bloodnames unfilled if the performance in the bloodline is bad?

[Alan Grant]

Don't Clans sometimes leave some bloodnames unfilled if the performance in the bloodline is bad?

That process is what the Reaving is. A Bloodname House can a Bloodcount of up to 25. A Trial of Reaving reduces that number. If a Bloodline isn't performing well, you reduce that number.

But how it happens is described in my previous post. Another Bloodname House has to call for a Trial of Reaving, which goes to a vote and can be contested in a Trial of Refusal. The next time your own House has a Trial of Bloodright, a vote is automatically called against you. So it's a two-edged sword.

The only other mechanism we know about is that an IlKhan can suspend a Trial of Bloodright, the effect is the same, the bloodcount is reduced by one. But obviously you need an IlKhan for that to happen.

[Hawkeye Jim]

Then if a particular name loses some ofit's numbers to poor performance, what happens if two or three of that name later turn out to be outstanding? Do they give them the numbers back?

[joechummer]

That process is what the Reaving is. A Bloodname House can a Bloodcount of up to 25. A Trial of Reaving reduces that number. If a Bloodline isn't performing well, you reduce that number.

But how it happens is described in my previous post. Another Bloodname House has to call for a Trial of Reaving, which goes to a vote and can be contested in a Trial of Refusal. The next time your own House has a Trial of Bloodright, a vote is automatically called against you. So it's a two-edged sword.

The only other mechanism we know about is that an IlKhan can suspend a Trial of Bloodright, the effect is the same, the bloodcount is reduced by one. But obviously you need an IlKhan for that to happen.

Leaving it unfilled (even temporarily) isn't the same thing as Reaving.  Reaving erases the spot entirely.

Think of one particular Bloodright like it's a small house: if the house is empty, someone can still live in it.  Reaving demolishes the house; Propagation rebuilds the house on the same spot.

Reaving is a quick process, but it's hard and sometimes nearly impossible to reverse.  Leaving the "house" temporarily vacant for awhile -- due to mitigating circumstances, Bloodname House politics, and so on -- is a lot less permanent.

Also, what prevents a House leader from Reaving their OWN House?  If a House leader thinks their own line is performing poorly and wants to focus down to smaller numbers but better quality warriors for a while (with the intent of Propagating at a future date), I'm sure this is not entirely out of the question.

[Kit deSummersville]

Then if a particular name loses some ofit's numbers to poor performance, what happens if two or three of that name later turn out to be outstanding? Do they give them the numbers back?
[/quote

The Bloodhouse, with an agreement by the scientists, can petition the Grand Council to reinstate a bloodname. If there are objections, it goes to a Trial of Propegation. It's in the Golden Century.

[Istal_Devalis]

It seems to me the total number of Bloodnames has shrunk considerably. They lost 40 with Wolverine, most of the same with Smoke Jaguar and Nova cat, 8 with Coyote.......

Those Smoke Jaguar names arent technically lost.  But I dont see them lasting much longer.  Since their defeat I suspect most of them are considered inferior and tainted, by the other Clans.

The Nova Cats made a decision to only hang on to those bloodnames they wholely controlled.  The rest of them (I forget which) are still available in the Clans, although they likely have similar taint issues