clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster

[Emcha]

i'm building a scenario where a merc unit has to fight an entire culster of Ghost Bear second-line troops.

what is some advice regarding how their garrison units are built?

what i'm thinking of:
4  Incubus(Vixen)
15 firemoth(dasher)(supernova trinary)
17 Great Wyrm
3  Conjurer(Hellhound)
4  Rifleman IIC (air defence star)
1  Hellbringer(Loki)(star colonel's personal mech)
1  Bane(kraken)(air defence star)

75 elementals(supernova trinary)
20 Jagatai
30 turk

any changes I should make?
whatever i put in has to conform to what Ghost Bear might have circa 3050.

[AlphaMirage]

I don't know about all the Fire Moths, probably replace some of those with vehicles.  Maybe substitute some Griffin or Shadow Hawk IICs for the Great Wyrms

Add a few more Conjurers and Nova's to give them some staying power.

Replace the AAA Star with a Command Star of Heavy Omnis or IICs (Guillotine, Highlander). The Star Colonel should be in a Kodiak or Gladiator

I don't think Second line forces have that much Aerospace either particularly Omnifighters.  Substitute them with VTOLs (that can also carry Elementals) and generic Aircraft

[Nicolai_Malthus]

I'd switch out some of the Omnis for some second line chasses, like some Grizzlies, IIC refits etc. I would also consider giving the star colonel a Kodiak instead of the Hellbringer. The Kodiak might be a bit obvious, but hey, it's the Ghost Bears so you pretty much have to ;D

[Emcha]

based on advice from you guys, and some guys on reddit, I've altered the composition.

this is a provisional garrison cluster, which I'm told means all the warriors who are either so old they're looking at being retired, or one mistake away from being kicked out of the warrior caste altogether.

they don't get good gear without a reason, and as far as abilities go they may be much closer to inner sphere pilots than the clanners on the front line.

according to someone on reddit, PGCs were uniform in makeup, consisting of three mech Trinaries, one elemental trinary with a nova as the command star, and one omnifighter trinary, with an independent command star for the cluster commander.

command star is 3 Conjurers, a Great Wyrm, and a kodiak, following your advice.

the first trinary will be made up of 3 Incubi, 5 Great Wyrms, 5 conjurers, and 2 Hunchback IICs
second and third trinaries will be similar, only their third stars will be heavy, with 4 Rifleman IICs and a Highlander IIC in one star, and 4 Guillotine IICs and a Warhammer IIC in the other.

the elemental trinary will retain 5 Firemoths as i don't know what conventional mechs, if any, are used in the same role as battle armor pony rides.

the ASF trinary will use a 2/2/6 ratio of Jagatai, Avar, and Turk for a total of 6 jags, 6 avars, and 18 turks

I'd like to give them dropship support, but i'm not sure if clan clusters, especially the borderline washouts, have their own organic dropship assets or if they are simply given them when they need to go from one planet to another.

[dgorsman]

Depending on where this is, a sprinkling of captured inner sphere Mechs would not be out of place.

[Emcha]

the fight is taking place on the edge of the territory captured in the fourth wave, september 31st 3051.

what sorts of captured mechs could they be using?

[dgorsman]

FRR and Draconis leftovers, so... Draconis leftovers.    :P

Things like -2K and -2Rc Archers, -2K and -2Hc Shadow Hawks.  Designs which are durable and widespread.

[RifleMech]

this is a provisional garrison cluster, which I'm told means all the warriors who are either so old they're looking at being retired, or one mistake away from being kicked out of the warrior caste altogether.

That pretty much describes a Solahma Cluster which can be used for Garrison Duty. A PGC has more variety and can be of any type of unit. Sarna's got a couple all aerospace Ghost Bear PGCs.

As this is a garrison unit I'd include some vehicles, and possibly some conventional infantry (Solahma). I'd also replace the OMNI Fighters with Secondline or upgraded SLDF fighters. Maybe a couple for the Commander and wingman but not more than that. OMNIs are more for frontline forces.


Looking in sarna I found https://www.sarna.net/wiki/12th_Provisional_Garrison_Cluster_(Rasalhague_Dominion) which lists their make up in 3067

Twelfth Provisional Garrison Cluster (Regular/Reliable)[11]

- At this point in time the Twelfth were stationed on Nox and were at full strength. Three-quarters of the Cluster were equipped with Clan technology, while the remainder were using Star League-era equipment. Just over two-fifths of the Cluster were equipped with OmniMechs.[11]

I'd imagine a PGC would be similar during the Clan Invasion.

[agen2]

Some vehicle like Ku wag.

[Jellico]

How is there not one Grizzly?

Ghost Bear Mech Clusters are a series of pairs. One fast, one slow. So a Grizzly might be paired with a Thresher. A Black Knight with a Champion.

Your Mech selection is focusing too much on TRO 3060. As an Invading Clan the Bears Mech choices were largely covered in TRO 3050, 3055, and 3058.

A Ghost Bear PGC is not noticeably inferior any other 2nd line Cluster. Typical structure is 3 x Trinaries of Mechs, one as a Supernova. 1 x Binary of ASF. And 1 x Trinary of Battle Armor.

If this is 3050 the PGCs have not been raided to fill out the lime Cluster after Tukayyid. As such you should still have access to all Clan tech with no need to break out the SLDF tech from the caches yet. No wave of Clint IICs yet either.


In 3050 the only CGB Clusters running tanks are rhw Phalanxes.

Any ASF from TRO3067 should be suitable as well as older Omnis like the Kirghiz and Avar. No Ammon yet.

Shadow Hawk IIC2 is the Bear variant.

Seriously. Look at earlier TROs.
Horned Owls
Griffin IICs
Shadow Hawk IIC2s
Thresher
Rifleman IIC
Grizzly
Supernova
Kodiak

[Emcha]

How is there not one Grizzly?

Ghost Bear Mech Clusters are a series of pairs. One fast, one slow. So a Grizzly might be paired with a Thresher. A Black Knight with a Champion.

Your Mech selection is focusing too much on TRO 3060. As an Invading Clan the Bears Mech choices were largely covered in TRO 3050, 3055, and 3058.

the big handicap i'm working with is that I don't have any of the TROs. I literally started this a week ago and know so little I don't know where to access the relevant information.
so your post is especially welcome. 11/10

now that i know about Solahma units i kind of want to stick with that. kind of a unit of plucky underdogs and black sheep who have everything to prove thrown into a low-risk garrison mission because all the top-end pipe hitters were busy with other things.

might a solahma unit be structured as a provisional garrison cluster, or do they have their own exclusive compositions?

tell me more about this 'series of pairs' thing.

also, are dropship assets organic to clusters like a RL aircraft carrier and it's Carrier Air Wing, or do they form a separate organization entirely that is assigned on an "as needed" basis, like RL Military Airlift Command?

[Jellico]

Okay. It is you game. Your mileage may vary. Battletech is very flexible. This is my opinion but others have different ideas.

Clan Ghost Bear don't really have any published Solahma units. By the time the full Touman was published FASA was moving away from phone book style listings for something more generic. So it was convenient to say PGCs etc were just normal 2nd line Clusters.

In 3050 you won't see a CGB Solahma unit in the Sphere. They are not taking behind the lines security seriously enough. But... If you did they would be really poorly equipped. Basically infantry with some vehicles.  No air support. Definitely no DropShip or strategic mobility.

A better bet would be to look at these guys

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Xi_Galaxy_(Clan_Ghost_Bear)
Sarna is a little bit lacking on details for the Clusters. If you have FM Warden Clams it would help. Otherwise ask about single Clusters and we can give a run down.

DropShips are probably not organic and are shifted around as needed. Nothing official has ever been written.

Now the Pairs thing is a personal observation based on the Random Allocation Tables (RATs) across several books. (It you have the Total Warfare rule book there are some in the back. )Within a weight bracket the CGB RATs seem to have a trooper Mech in the 7 and 8 position and fast flanker in the 6 position  Don't worry about the numbers too much. But what is means when using the RATs you will roll a trooper and a half and a flanker.
Now when I am building a Star I will usually go 2 heavier and 3 lighter. (eg 3 lights + 2 medium. 3 mediums + 2 heavies. 3 heavies + 2 assaults). So  there is a good chance I will get a trooper and a flanker from each weight bracket in the Star. Tactically it makes good sense to have a hammer and anvil so it seems to work.
This does not mean the Mechs fight as a pair. Zellbrigen is often in play. Especially in 3050.

I hope that helps.

[dgorsman]

... FM Warden Clams ...

 ;D

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Also consider tanks for your Elemental Carriers. The Epona is a great vehicle for it, as well as the lighter Svantovit. That being said some Elementals would be decent, consider Infantry platoons instead. IIRC CGB had some decent infantry in another book somewhere (couldn't tell you the name).

A Grizzly is an excellent second line mech and id advise one (despite wanting it to be a solahma unit). I would also second the notion of ex-FRR and ex-DC mechs like a couple Panthers, Archers, or original 55-ton Trio. Your IIC mechs are good choices as are some of your other mechs don't get us wrong, but the concept of solahma in the Ghost Bears is a bit odd.

Just my two cents.

[Emcha]

Clan Ghost Bear don't really have any published Solahma units. By the time the full Touman was published FASA was moving away from phone book style listings for something more generic. So it was convenient to say PGCs etc were just normal 2nd line Clusters.

In 3050 you won't see a CGB Solahma unit in the Sphere. They are not taking behind the lines security seriously enough. But... If you did they would be really poorly equipped. Basically infantry with some vehicles.  No air support. Definitely no DropShip or strategic mobility.

A better bet would be to look at these guys

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Xi_Galaxy_(Clan_Ghost_Bear)

I'm not exactly married to the idea, if CGB doesn't have any cannon fodder troops in the theatre of operations then i'm not going to use them.

the link doesn't really have anything. just a page saying "nothing here please add to it."
if you could provide a cliffsnotes on Xi Galaxy i'd appreciate.

Now when I am building a Star I will usually go 2 heavier and 3 lighter. (eg 3 lights + 2 medium. 3 mediums + 2 heavies. 3 heavies + 2 assaults). So  there is a good chance I will get a trooper and a flanker from each weight bracket in the Star.

this is exactly what I was looking for with force building guidelines.

Also consider tanks for your Elemental Carriers. The Epona is a great vehicle for it, as well as the lighter Svantovit. That being said some Elementals would be decent, consider Infantry platoons instead. IIRC CGB had some decent infantry in another book somewhere (couldn't tell you the name).

I was looking at the Epona and i kind of like it, the Svantovit fluff says it was designed during the succession wars, which makes me think it was an IS vehicle originally. if i'm wrong about this, great, because that looks to be a very good choice.

ghost bear has a reputation for having one of the largest numbers of Elementals, so would it be possible that their garrison formations have elemental troops, even if just kitted out as regular foot infantry? or do elementals only get paired with battle armor and if they don't make the battle armor cut they go straight to the noncombat castes?

[edit] Okay, I've taken the advice and applied it to this cluster using a 3/2 ratio in each star, one star being light/medium, one being medium/heavy. and one being heavy/assault.

the command lance has a Thresher, Guillotine IIC, Grizzly, highlander IIC, and a Kodiak.

the Alpha star
2 Incubus, i horned owl(with 2 Medium Pulse lasers and two LRM-5s) a Conjurer, and a Griffin IIC

beta star
one hunchback IIC, two Shadowhawk IICs, a Thresher, and a Grizzly

gamma star
three Threshers, a Marauder IIC, and a supernova

the other two trinaries are similar with a few substitutes. the total battlemech force ammounts to:
6 x Incubus
3 x Horned Owl
3 x Hunchback IIC
5 x Shadow Hawk IIC
2 x Griffin IIC
5 x Conjurer
13 x Thresher
5 x Grizzly
1 x Guillotine IIC
1 x Marauder IIC
1 x Warhammer IIC
1 x Highlander IIC
1 x Bane
1 x Kodiak
3 x supernova

the aerospace trinary, following advice from both here and the other place i'm asking these questions, will be made up of a ratio of 2 light, 6 medium, and 2 heavy. for ease of planning and logistics i'm making these fighters all Issus, Tyre, and Xerxes, respectively for a total of:
6 x Issus
18 x Tyre
6 x Xerxes

the infantry trinary is leaning towards conventional infantry, but i'm questioning this.

the mercenary force they're going up against is roughly regimental-sized and basically aerospace cavalry; using medium and heavy ASFs as troop carriers for conventional foot infantry, with every lance structured as follows:

1 x heavy ASF w/ troop compartment
1 x medium ASF w/ troop compartment
4 x medium battlemechs built for mobility and close-range brawling, typically one assassin with TSM and NARC, two shadow hawks or similar brawlers, and an enforcer modified with a gauss rifle and a medium laser.
2 x platoons of conventional infantry, armed with laser rifles and SRMs

every third lance is built as a "fast attack" lance, with the battlemechs being built for high speed and mobility, replacing the brawlers with 3 griffins.

most of the force is concentrated into five triumph dropships, modified to support this unit structure and also fitted with a pair of long toms for fire support.

8 lances are put into leopards modified with troop bays to support the unit structure

the command company rides in a union, and is the exception to the typical structure, having no organic infantry assets and only 2 ASFs, but follows the theme of 2 brawler lances and 1 fast attack.
and the commander rolls in a swordsman upgraded to modern standards and given TSM for the purposes of flexing.

the force has a large number of buccaneers(x8) and a mule, all outfitted for mech recovery and salvage, following them.

a pair of leopard CVs and a pair of Octopus SAR dropships provide aerospace and dedicated fighter support with Gotha ASFs

the attacking force is pretty much set in stone at this point, and they built their force with the expectation that they will be going up against the big dicks of the clans.

this is sort of a introduction to ease everybody into it, but i still don't really want to pull any punches.

[AlphaMirage]

I don't think regular ASF can have non-battle armor troop bays.  Even the few canon ASF that carry troops can only carry battle armor with jump speeds.  The need to land those fighters to dismount the troops will mean those CGB ASF will strafe your fighters on the ground with impunity or their Ghost Bear mechs will crit you and make sure you can't take off again. 

Those mediums are going to get chewed up by Clan Pulse and ER lasers before they can seriously injure any Clan mech.  Fighting the long range mobility game favors the clan even in the second line.  Even if the infantry gets into play they are going to get savaged by missiles.  Your mercs need some more spine, they need heavies with lots of missiles (Archer, Crusader, Catapult) and something with some real killing power (PPCs, Gauss Rifles, etc...) to drop those clan mechs at range.

Does your merc's employer want them to all die? because that doctrine seems wrongheaded.

[Emcha]

I haven't seen any rules that say you can't have a troop compartment in an ASF, and all ASFs have VSTOL capability by default, meaning they can land and offload troops anywhere there's a sufficiently large clearing of solid ground.

the intent of the merc group seems to be using area denial, artillery, and aerospace assets to do most of the heavy-hitting, with half of the troop carrier ASFs being equipped with plenty of hardpoints, and the dropships being equipped with Long Tom artillery, which can fire smoke, and the infantry mostly being for taking ships and structures. that said the majority of lances feature one mech equipped with a gauss rifle or LRMs, and the heavy ASFs also are equipped with a turreted Gauss rifle, which i also haven't seen anything prohibiting on ASFs and would theoretically allow them to orbit the battlefield and engage ground targets without strafing, if such a thing is even possible to do in the game's rules.

so basically the mercs have their battlemechs just to mop up after the 106 ASFs and the five assault dropships permanently change the geography of the ground the clanners occupy. failing that they have lots of assets to lay down smoke screens and firewalls to help the mechs close with the enemy.

not so much defending them, i just want to do what i can to ruin their day.*


*without ruining their fun.

[AlphaMirage]

Who are your Mercs working for to get that much Aerospace?  The Mariks would be the only faction that could field a unit like that.  By Lore Aerospace fighters are exceedingly uncommon with the largest formations on paper in Canon being the RCTs rarely having more than 2 Wings.  I think you should roll down the Merc unit to a supported Air Battalion (10 Lances of Mechs/Vehicles with a Wing of Aerospace and troops) to make it a challenge to take on a cluster like that.

Throwing a regiment of Aerospace on the Ghost Bears is going to get one of their many Warships involved and they will blast your jumpships without remorse. Once that is done it will be easy to take down everything else in detail afterwards.  This force is really too big for one world.  They'd be better off sent against a Warship group, held on retainer to fight the Ghost Bear's Valkyries, or scattered around to take on multiple worlds at the same time and draw the CGB fleet away from another target.

As for rules, striking and bombing still requires that you come within engagement range for those weapons.  Aerospace fighters use the same ranges and guns as Battlemechs, if they can hit you you can hit them.  ASF's have some serious mechanical (in game) downsides as well, VTOL landing and takeoff requires a piloting roll, Bombs dramatically slow down ASF making you an easier target to fire upon, and any hit in atmosphere has a chance to eliminate any ASF in one turn due to control rolls before you even get into threshold crits.

[RifleMech]

the big handicap i'm working with is that I don't have any of the TROs. I literally started this a week ago and know so little I don't know where to access the relevant information.
so your post is especially welcome. 11/10

I'd take a look at the Master Unit List to see what units are available for the Ghost Bears during the Clan Invasion and then looking at Sarna to read up on them and see how they'd fit into your game. If you like them, use them. If not, don't.

You can also try here to see what kind of forces the Ghost Bears use.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Ghost_Bear_Touman


In regards to the old FASA phone books and Older Tech units they do give a degree of flexibility. For example, a Locust could be an old IS variant, a SLDF Royal variant, an upgraded Clan Variant, or a Clan IIC variant. So that gives you an open door to use tech that fits your game.

ghost bear has a reputation for having one of the largest numbers of Elementals, so would it be possible that their garrison formations have elemental troops, even if just kitted out as regular foot infantry? or do elementals only get paired with battle armor and if they don't make the battle armor cut they go straight to the noncombat castes?

Elementals do end up as regular infantry. For the Ghost Bears I'd say the best they'd be in would be second line clusters but most likely PGCs and Solhama units.

I haven't seen any rules that say you can't have a troop compartment in an ASF, and all ASFs have VSTOL capability by default, meaning they can land and offload troops anywhere there's a sufficiently large clearing of solid ground.

The Kirghiz C configuration is specifically made to carry Battle Armor.

[Emcha]

Who are your Mercs working for to get that much Aerospace?  The Mariks would be the only faction that could field a unit like that.  By Lore Aerospace fighters are exceedingly uncommon with the largest formations on paper in Canon being the RCTs rarely having more than 2 Wings.  I think you should roll down the Merc unit to a supported Air Battalion (10 Lances of Mechs/Vehicles with a Wing of Aerospace and troops) to make it a challenge to take on a cluster like that.

the answer i got is that this merc unit is primarily aerospace; dropship escort, antipiracy, etc. with the infantry mostly specializing in recapture tactics, and the battlemechs mostly just there to deal with pirate bases. the various units operated independently arounf the Magistry of Canopus and surrounding periphery until they were hired en masse by the FRR.

[qhote]Throwing a regiment of Aerospace on the Ghost Bears is going to get one of their many Warships involved and they will blast your jumpships without remorse. Once that is done it will be easy to take down everything else in detail afterwards.  This force is really too big for one world.  They'd be better off sent against a Warship group, held on retainer to fight the Ghost Bear's Valkyries, or scattered around to take on multiple worlds at the same time and draw the CGB fleet away from another target.[/quote]

this leads me to another question: how many warships were patrolling the occupation zones during 3051? this scenario itself begins on September 21st 3051, a few days before the clans finish strong-arming the wolf Kahn into being their supreme leader and sending their special boys back to the front.

As for rules, striking and bombing still requires that you come within engagement range for those weapons.

I mean that kind of goes without saying.

ASF's have some serious mechanical (in game) downsides as well, VTOL landing and takeoff requires a piloting roll, Bombs dramatically slow down ASF making you an easier target to fire upon, and any hit in atmosphere has a chance to eliminate any ASF in one turn due to control rolls before you even get into threshold crits.

what i'm hearing is a lot of stuff that can go wrong that can make this whole operation a lot more entertaining.

Murphy's law is a bitch.

[2ndAcr]

 Pretty sure every Galaxy had one attached. Maybe more than one per Galaxy. I fore see them getting one good punch on the Ghost Bears in defense, then a warship is gonna come in and smash their jumpships with no remorse and then they get pounded by a full Galaxy.

[AlphaMirage]

Pretty sure every Galaxy had one attached. Maybe more than one per Galaxy. I fore see them getting one good punch on the Ghost Bears in defense, then a warship is gonna come in and smash their jumpships with no remorse and then they get pounded by a full Galaxy.

Which might not happen if you had a smaller more nimble unit that wouldn't need multiple jumpships to transport.

the answer i got is that this merc unit is primarily aerospace; dropship escort, antipiracy, etc. with the infantry mostly specializing in recapture tactics, and the battlemechs mostly just there to deal with pirate bases. the various units operated independently around the Magistracy of Canopus and surrounding periphery until they were hired en masse by the FRR.

what i'm hearing is a lot of stuff that can go wrong that can make this whole operation a lot more entertaining.

Murphy's law is a bitch.

This is an interesting development, by Lore the FRR hated Mercs for their behavior during the Ronin Wars that followed its founding. 

A unit of the size you described likely would have been a dozen different merc commands pulled into a single composite in a rush.  The Rasalhagues wouldn't let a large group like this act without serious oversight from Kungsarme Officers.  I mean there might not even be a regiment of Aerospace or a pure Battlemech regiment in their whole army.  You could have the units operating at cross purposes with the sub-commanders acting haphazardly under the inexperienced Kungsarme officers. 

Maybe they got bad intel or the situation on the ground changed like a Phalanx Trinary is on ground or a CGB Titan Dropship happens to be passing through the system when they arrive.  Those infantry have never encountered Elementals before and a Point of Elementals will slaughter whole platoons of conventional troops in a structure or ship invasion scenario.  This could be an excellent comedy of errors that might cost that command far more than anything a PGC would be guarding.

[Emcha]

This is an interesting development, by Lore the FRR hated Mercs for their behavior during the Ronin Wars that followed its founding.

funny how losing more than half your territory to an invading army can relax your standards a bit.

A unit of the size you described likely would have been a dozen different merc commands pulled into a single composite in a rush.  The Rasalhagues wouldn't let a large group like this act without serious oversight from Kungsarme Officers.  I mean there might not even be a regiment of Aerospace or a pure Battlemech regiment in their whole army.  You could have the units operating at cross purposes with the sub-commanders acting haphazardly under the inexperienced Kungsarme officers.

I like this. I like it alot.

I'm going to steal this idea. I hope that's alright. 

Maybe they got bad intel or the situation on the ground changed like a Phalanx Trinary is on ground or a CGB Titan Dropship happens to be passing through the system when they arrive.  Those infantry have never encountered Elementals before and a Point of Elementals will slaughter whole platoons of conventional troops in a structure or ship invasion scenario.  This could be an excellent comedy of errors that might cost that command far more than anything a PGC would be guarding.

the series of events that i've assembled so far goes like this:

September 7-17 3051: force musters in Thessalonika, orders are given, and on the 17th the kampfgruppe jumps to Soverzene. an attack force detatches and after about 7.5 days the main force jumps to Casere.
September 24th 3051: task force jumps to Casere, and is met by a clan warship*, which was there to resupply the garrison in system. both groups are equally surprised to see the other and a battle ensues with the mercenary force prosecuting the battle with far more energy than might have been required.
September 31st: invasion of the planet in Casere begins.

*I haven't decided on which class this should be, It stared with a Liberator, but has since jumped from that to a York to a Carrack to a Lola III to a Congress. something with dropship collars and plenty of cargo space, but not of heavy tonnage. a ship you'd likely send off alone on a low-risk mission into potentially hostile territory.



your suggestion gives me a lot of room to expand on this.

[Hellraiser]

DropShips are probably not organic and are shifted around as needed. Nothing official has ever been written.

I'll disagree with Jellico here if only because the Phone Book rosters & Wolf v/s Falcon books do show Dropships assigned at the cluster level so I'm betting the Bears are similar.


I agree on the need for classic Bear designs.  Kodiak/Grizzly.

Also,  Deploy your elementals as 1 Star per Mech Trinary & give make the Command Star of each Trinary a Nova.


Common mech options for some variety....

Striker Trinary = Locust-IIC (x2),  Incubus,  Horned Owl,  Jenner-IIC,  FireMoth (x2),  KitFox,  ShadowHawk-IIC, Clint-IIC, Griffin-IIC  Conjurer,  Viper, StormCrow, Hussar-200D

Battle Trinary = Great Wyrm, MadDog (x3), Hellbringer, ShadowHawk-2H-c, Champion-C, Thresher, Guillotine-IIC,  Grizzly,  Guillotine-3N,  Champion-1N,  Flashman-8K, PhoenixHawk-3K, PhoenixHawk-IIC, Summoner

Dragoon Trinary = Rifleman-IIC, BlackKnight-6, Marauder-3R-c, Rifleman-3N-c, Archer-4R,  Marauder-IIC,  Warhammer-IIC,  SuperNova, Kodiak, Executioner (x2), Kingfisher (x2), Gargoyle, Highlander-IIC

Gives you a solid mix of Omni, ClanTech, SLDF, IS new Salvage, & Mixed Refit-c's


I'd also only go 2 stars of ASF.  I think it was stated in fluff somewhere that the Bears often didn't have a full Trinary but only a Binary.  (Or what that the Adders, I forget)

[Emcha]

I'll disagree with Jellico here if only because the Phone Book rosters & Wolf v/s Falcon books do show Dropships assigned at the cluster level so I'm betting the Bears are similar.

what would be the typical dropship assets of a cluster?

I'm thinking at least one Sassanid for the elementals, either a single Overlord-C or three union-Cs for the mech trinaries, and something to carry the binary of ASFs, or might those be transported as cargo?

[Natasha Kerensky]

something to carry the binary of ASFs, or might those be transported as cargo?

A Carrier dropship (the Leopard CV of the Clans) or two from their Raven allies would take care of the fighters.

That said, a true garrison cluster — guard these facilities on this planet here — probably doesn’t have dedicated, organic dropship transport.  They’re not expected to be making combat drops and probably use whatever dropship transport is available when rotating stations.

FWIW...

[Jellico]

what would be the typical dropship assets of a cluster?

I'm thinking at least one Sassanid for the elementals, either a single Overlord-C or three union-Cs for the mech trinaries, and something to carry the binary of ASFs, or might those be transported as cargo?

What are they doing?

For example a garrison might have access to a trio of Broadswords. They are tactical ships perfect for shifting bite sized units around a planet/system.

Surface or moon based ASF are quite capable of flying around a planet on their own steam.

You can put BA in cargo for a couple of hours of flight. The Bays are only needed for immediate repair or combat drops.


You use a Union C or Sassanid if you are hitting a target in force and you need a lot of units put on target quickly. Ditto for an Overlord C. The big ships are about getting troop density per drop collar. These ships are more landing craft than transports.

If I am just moving Mechs between friendly worlds use a Mule.

Carriers are tactical platforms. Bite sized aerospace. Park them in orbit or on the ground.
Miraborgs and Titans are about density. For assault or fleet defense.

Hope that helps.

[dgorsman]

Location also matters.  In the homeworlds there isn't much need to move around - multiple Clans may control different enclaves on a world, and will only engage in trials.  The rare dark caste attacks would also be directly against enclaves or shipments in space for supplies.  That changes once they hit the inner sphere occupation zones.  Now each Clan has entire worlds solely in their control and under threat from bandits and inner sphere raiders which may hit smaller communities, not just isolated outposts.

[Hellraiser]

what would be the typical dropship assets of a cluster?

I'm thinking at least one Sassanid for the elementals, either a single Overlord-C or three union-Cs for the mech trinaries, and something to carry the binary of ASFs, or might those be transported as cargo?

No Overlords.  (Those are for Front Line Offense units)

Maybe 3 Unions, a Sassinand, & 2 Carriers if you are wanting to move the entire force.

As Jellico stated, its possible they are under strength since they are garrison & have to make due with just a couple combat droppers & a cargo ship to move the rest from Garrison to Garrison.

I'd give them at least 2 Unions & 1 Carrier as a bare minimum.

[Colt Ward]

i'm building a scenario where a merc unit has to fight an entire culster of Ghost Bear second-line troops.

what is some advice regarding how their garrison units are built?

what i'm thinking of:
4  Incubus(Vixen)
15 firemoth(dasher)(supernova trinary)
17 Great Wyrm
3  Conjurer(Hellhound)
4  Rifleman IIC (air defence star)
1  Hellbringer(Loki)(star colonel's personal mech)
1  Bane(kraken)(air defence star)

75 elementals(supernova trinary)
20 Jagatai
30 turk

any changes I should make?
whatever i put in has to conform to what Ghost Bear might have circa 3050.

I know you have revised it some . . . but really, that is too many of a couple of designs in a garrison cluster.  And as garrison for the IS it needs some Star League mechs and vehicles.

I would recommend-
Command Star
Hellbringer, Great Wyrm, Bowman 1 or 2, Phoenix Hawk IIC, Conjurer

Supernova Trinary Rogue
2 Viper, Fire Falcon, Arctic Cheetah, Mist Lynx & 5 Elemental points
Ice Ferret, 4 Fire Moth & 5 Elemental
Incubus, Locust IIC, Piranha, Ice Storm, Talon 5W

Trinary Strike
Vapor Eagle, Conjurer, Shadow Hawk IIC, Griffin IIC, Clint IIC
Black Python, Flashman, Thresher, 2 Horned Owl
2 Great Wyrm, Shadow Hawk C, Crab 27 or 27b, Incubus

Heavy Binary
Bane, Kodiak, Warhammer IIC, Thug 11Eb, Marauder C
Grizzly, Rifleman IIC, Guillotine IIC, Hunchback IIC, Victor C

Supernova Binary Vehicle
2 Demo C, 2 Mars (XL), 2 Hui, 2 Mars, Demon (Royal), Vedette
3 Svantovit, 2 Heavy Hover APC, 2 Donar VTOL, 2 Drillsons, 1 SL hovertank (Lightning or Zephyr) & 5 Elemental points

Garrison Infantry Star
5 Infantry Mechanized Points (2 hover, 2 tracked, 1 wheeled)

ASF should be a mix of secondline & SL left overs
DS for the most part would be galaxy level assets IMO, but give them 2 or 3 to move at most a mech trinary & binary of support around.

[Hellraiser]

Apart from the Drillsons which were only invented in the 31st century IIRC,  that is a nice break down Cole.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I gave the Vedette, Drillsons, Marauder C, Shadow Hawk C, Victor C, and heavy hover APCs as isorla used to help fit out a garrison cluster.  Heck, if he wanted to replace a Hui and the Demon (Royal) he could throw in a pair of Axels taken from the FRR.  Really a garrison unit should not have appeared in the IS until after Showers gave Ulric the OK, so by the time they could have moved . . . '51?

I really think its too bad we did not get more of the TRO 3025 mechs as 'C's . . . Griffin, Wolverine, Enforcer, Centurion, Dervish . . . lots of FUN options there to work with.

[Emcha]

Well, I gave the Vedette, Drillsons, Marauder C, Shadow Hawk C, Victor C, and heavy hover APCs as isorla used to help fit out a garrison cluster.  Heck, if he wanted to replace a Hui and the Demon (Royal) he could throw in a pair of Axels taken from the FRR.  Really a garrison unit should not have appeared in the IS until after Showers gave Ulric the OK, so by the time they could have moved . . . '51?

the campaign I'll be running actually begins on September 31st, 3051, literally days before the main force of the clans make their way back to the front. so the force will be dealing with garrison troops and second-line personnel for as long as it takes the clans to get to them, so maybe like 45 days roundabouts?

your suggestions is very welcome and I'll be adjusting this force accordingly.

would a, aerospace binary of Issus, Tyre, and Xerxes with a 1:3:1 ratio be suitable? or should they be more varied?

[RifleMech]

Have you considered adding a Nova of Kirhiz and Elementals?  It's a GB design and configuration C was designed to carry Elementals. Although now that I think about it, it could also be used to carry Jump Infantry and Paratrooper Infantry.

[Colt Ward]

You do not add 10 frontline fighters to a garrison . . . besides, the garrison is not going to need air drop though frontline forces as attackers would be- if you did it, at most you would want 3 points worth.

Something happened and it seems my response was deleted . . . weird.  Anyway to try to remember what I said . . . my point was that during the Year of Peace the Clan forces would not have abandoned the OZs as it sounds in early fiction/fluff.  The Khans, saKhans and maybe Loremasters would return to the Homeworlds with maybe a cluster as a bodyguard force to elect the new ilKhan in a Grand Council- but they were also holding Clan Councils, which is where things break down a bit.  Really the 4 Invading Clans SHOULD have had a quorum for each Clan in the OZ since a plurality if not majority would have been in/near the OZs with the frontline clusters and warships/DS/naval ASF.  While the garrison clusters should have arrived at that point for the other Clans, a large number of frontline clusters should have been in rest & refit for the year on OZ worlds.  Heck, the Year of Peace gave the other 3 Invaders a chance to close the logistical gap with the Wolves.

As far as ASF . . . I think 2 or 3 Star League designs like the Rapier 100/100b/101 or Lightning G15b would be appropriate.  The Bears would also lean more to heavy and medium fighters with the Bear's economic benefit.  Maybe less Tyre b/c its a Viper design- Issus definitely since its a Raven product.  The only other one missing, which might mean just one as the binary's Star Captain, would be the Hydaspes . . . a real flying brick with a good set of guns.  Give it a Xerxes as a point mate for a solid pairing.  So maybe . . .

Hydaspes/Xerxes
Xerxes/Xerxes
Xerxes/Rapier 101
Tyre/Tyre
Tyre/Tyre

Tyre/Tyre
Tomahawk C/Lightning G15b
Tomahawk C/Chaeronea
Issus/Issus
Issus/Swift C

Too bad you cannot get the Ammon, great secondline machine and its a Shark product . . . but its the 60s.

[Jellico]

The Goth, Issedone, and Ogotai Omnifighters leap to mind as second line options.

[Emcha]

during the Year of Peace the Clan forces would not have abandoned the OZs as it sounds in early fiction/fluff.  The Khans, saKhans and maybe Loremasters would return to the Homeworlds with maybe a cluster as a bodyguard force to elect the new ilKhan in a Grand Council- but they were also holding Clan Councils, which is where things break down a bit.  Really the 4 Invading Clans SHOULD have had a quorum for each Clan in the OZ since a plurality if not majority would have been in/near the OZs with the frontline clusters and warships/DS/naval ASF.  While the garrison clusters should have arrived at that point for the other Clans, a large number of frontline clusters should have been in rest & refit for the year on OZ worlds.  Heck, the Year of Peace gave the other 3 Invaders a chance to close the logistical gap with the Wolves.

so what naval assets would be present in CGB's occupation zone?

all I know of is the two command ships they brought.

[Colt Ward]

Probably not much, after Phelan convinced Ulric to bid them away most of the warships were supposed to have been withdrawn from the OZs.  With the Khans & saKhans returning to the Homeworlds I would expect them to take each galaxy's flagship.  The Clans have a few assault dropships at that point, the Noruff being the one that comes to mind most but the Bear DS fleet would also have Carriers, Titans, perhaps Claymores (doubling for planetary hops), old Star League Elephants (or new Clan built ones), SL Pentagons, and maybe Achilles as part of Combat Space Patrols.

[dgorsman]

Claymore?  That's a FedCom design.

[AlphaMirage]

Probably not much, after Phelan convinced Ulric to bid them away most of the warships were supposed to have been withdrawn from the OZs.  With the Khans & saKhans returning to the Homeworlds I would expect them to take each galaxy's flagship.  The Clans have a few assault dropships at that point, the Noruff being the one that comes to mind most but the Bear DS fleet would also have Carriers, Titans, perhaps Claymores (doubling for planetary hops), old Star League Elephants (or new Clan built ones), SL Pentagons, and maybe Achilles as part of Combat Space Patrols.

Warships particularly of the old SLDF manufacture are very good for carrying lots of things and just because they were bid away doesn't mean they weren't in use in noncombat roles.  If I remember correctly the Snow Ravens did deploy some Warships to help the Ghost Bears out but I don't remember if that was in the initial offense or later on.  You could have a few destroyers plying the space lanes protecting merchant traffic in the OZ as well as along the Exodus Road.

That said a Carrier is a fearsome combatant and at least one would have been deployed with most Merchant convoys and definitely for any Warrior battle group.

[RifleMech]

You do not add 10 frontline fighters to a garrison . . . besides, the garrison is not going to need air drop though frontline forces as attackers would be- if you did it, at most you would want 3 points worth.

On the other hand the Kirghiz is old enough to have spread all over the Clan's forces. So I can see it as being one of the few OMNI Fighters that might be used by a garrison. I can especially see 3 points of them being assigned to a unit garrisoning a IS world. The flexibility of an OMNI would help defending the world. Plus an Elemental star can do a lot to a rioting crowd. A sonic boom followed by rain of toad would break up a lot of riots. And then the Kirghiz can go back and pick up some regular infantry.

There's also all kinds of terrain where air dropping your troops can be of an advantage.

[Colt Ward]

Claymore?  That's a FedCom design.

Sorry, I always flip that and the Broadsword.

We are told by the fluff, and I want to say it stayed consistent in ER3052, that the warships were bid away after Edo & the Rasalhague invasion as a prestige.  I think most left the OZs until after Tukayyid.  With that said, PCs are unlikely to encounter a warship guarding a world a old garrison cluster is assigned to rather than a frontline or secondline cluster on a important world- but that is my view.  The Ravens rented Aegis cruisers to the Jade Falcons, their collaboration with the Bears over the Leviathan/Ark Royal was for the invasion.

[Hellraiser]

Not sure about WS leaving the OZ.

I seem to recall the Falcons still had their 10? Aegis on contract from the Ravens for the entire invasion.

I think at most you'd just see them doing more escort duties for shipments of supplies to/from the OZ & Homeworlds.

And I doubt any Khan/SaKhan is traveling in anything but a Warship at that time.

But I'm sure they are hanging out at the Jump Points instead of moving in system to take up orbit.


The Clans didn't abandon the OZ at all in early fluff.

They just had to have the Blood Named leave (max of 2K per Clan)

But most unblooded warriors were noted to have stayed behind.   (Phelan's crew seeming to be the exception of course)

[Emcha]

Not sure about WS leaving the OZ.

I seem to recall the Falcons still had their 10? Aegis on contract from the Ravens for the entire invasion.

I think at most you'd just see them doing more escort duties for shipments of supplies to/from the OZ & Homeworlds.

And I doubt any Khan/SaKhan is traveling in anything but a Warship at that time.

But I'm sure they are hanging out at the Jump Points instead of moving in system to take up orbit.


The Clans didn't abandon the OZ at all in early fluff.

They just had to have the Blood Named leave (max of 2K per Clan)

But most unblooded warriors were noted to have stayed behind.   (Phelan's crew seeming to be the exception of course)

so only about 2,000 warriors from each clan would be taken back to clan space. for some reason i thought it would be a larger number.

of course, based on the numbers i could find, Alpha, Beta, and Delta Galaxies combined total 2,310 warriors. although i'm sure a plurality of them were not bloodnamed, the nature of the operation meant all the bloodnamed warriors would be fighting tooth and nail just to get into the drop order.

40% loss of a military unit, to any cause, from combat loss to R&R leave, is enough to make it combat ineffective; and if only 40% of each galaxy had to rush home that severely hampers the ability of the remaining forces to conduct military operations. in a defensive battle this is less important, but I get the feeling that clanners don't dig.

[AlphaMirage]

That 2000 number also is a bit high because of the improbability of all Bloodhouses being fully stocked and on the line.  Many of the lesser lineages rarely have their full roster of 25 filled out, possibly having fallen prey to Reavings in the past; or their material just might not be very effective in contrast to the superstars.  I'd say that on average any Clan likely has 60% tops of their Bloodnamed slots in some kind of service which can include Solahma and possibly much less in some hardline Clans (Jaguars/Vipers/Spirits) due to their brutal training.

[Emcha]

That 2000 number also is a bit high because of the improbability of all Bloodhouses being fully stocked and on the line.  Many of the lesser lineages rarely have their full roster of 25 filled out, possibly having fallen prey to Reavings in the past; or their material just might not be very effective in contrast to the superstars.  I'd say that on average any Clan likely has 60% tops of their Bloodnamed slots in some kind of service which can include Solahma and possibly much less in some hardline Clans (Jaguars/Vipers/Spirits) due to their brutal training.

this is good info.

I would imagine, though, that any bloodnamed warrior in clan ghost bear who was elligible for combat would do their damndest to get into the operation, and as a result the three galaxies that took part in the operation might have had a higher than usual concentration of bloodnamed warriors. or maybe i'm wrong. i'm probably wrong.

[Colt Ward]

The other thing is this- the Clans held meetings with folks by remote who were in the Homeworlds, so the bloodname leaving the OZ is a hand-wave matter.  I am not sure how it would be addressed now . . . which is probably why it was not in ER3052.

The problem with 'all' the Bloodnamed leaving the OZs is pretty simple . . . its your officer corp.  For the frontline Invasion units your galaxy commanders, star colonels and many of the star captains & commanders are bloodnamed.  Alpha and Beta even have bloodnamed as regular warriors- its more prestigious to be a line mechwarrior in Alpha than it is to be a star commander in a secondline galaxy- or even in Gamma or Delta.  In addition, a mechwarrior was more likely to see action in Alpha or Beta than any other galaxy- and your codex is how you got into the breeding program.  To be unblooded & a star colonel in a frontline galaxy you have to be a ristar and an exceptional warrior/commander- Ulric did it waiting for a specific bloodnamed.  In secondline and garrison galaxies, in al but rare cases the galaxy commander will have a bloodname, most of the star colonels will (some could be freeborn), and IMO about half the star captains would have bloodnames.  Secondline & garrison galaxy star captains and commanders are where trueborn career tracks & bloodhouse politics come into play IMO.  We see examples where new ristars are sent to better secondline formations (as stated previously quality between frontline and garrison IMO) to get some command experience while in real combat- its a test to see if the warrior is that good and can run a unit.  Perform well, and you could get a shot at a command position in a frontline galaxy- anything else will increase your time in the secondline formation . . . or could result in being kicked down to a garrison galaxy.

We see several different cases, in the Invasion up to 3145, where warriors are given a command position in secondline or garrison as a challenge- 'fix this and you can get a better assignment.'

ANYWAY . . . we really do not have any indication all the frontline clusters headed back to the Home worlds.  Ulric Kerensky, Garth Fetladral and Conal Ward traveled back to the  Home worlds with their keshiks and maybe a cluster- Ulric had Golden Keshik & 4th Wolf Guards (Ranna, Carew and Evantha's posting), Garth took Silver Keshik and a Beta cluster, and Conal Ward as Loremaster had the Red Keshik  and 11th Wolf Guards (Vlad's unit IIRC).  The Ghost Bears had their Loremaster for the Invasion in a combat posting IIRC, so its likely the same thing happened- not sure if the Jag Loremaster had a combat posting or was left minding the store in the Home worlds.

For concentration, I think you are right . . . IMO depending on the Clan you are looking at anywhere of 60% (Sharks) to 80% of bloodnamed/ristars being in the frontline clusters (IIRC we have a very few galaxies that mix frontline & secondline clusters outside of Falcons).

AlphaMirage, the Invading Clans are also more likely to have the full bloodcounts than they have had in most of their history- the Invaders Clans reactivated bloodnames that had been reaved or lane dormant for some time.  It should also be noted, the Wolves would have had more than the basic Clan count- b/c of 40+3 and absorbed Widowmaker names . . . while the Jaguars could have but left Mongoose alone.  Then factor in that you are talking about 4 of the most successful Clans so there is a higher chance of abathka in vs out.

[Emcha]

The other thing is this- the Clans held meetings with folks by remote who were in the Homeworlds, so the bloodname leaving the OZ is a hand-wave matter.  I am not sure how it would be addressed now . . . which is probably why it was not in ER3052.

The problem with 'all' the Bloodnamed leaving the OZs is pretty simple . . . its your officer corp.  For the frontline Invasion units your galaxy commanders, star colonels and many of the star captains & commanders are bloodnamed.  Alpha and Beta even have bloodnamed as regular warriors- its more prestigious to be a line mechwarrior in Alpha than it is to be a star commander in a secondline galaxy- or even in Gamma or Delta.  In addition, a mechwarrior was more likely to see action in Alpha or Beta than any other galaxy- and your codex is how you got into the breeding program.  To be unblooded & a star colonel in a frontline galaxy you have to be a ristar and an exceptional warrior/commander- Ulric did it waiting for a specific bloodnamed.  In secondline and garrison galaxies, in al but rare cases the galaxy commander will have a bloodname, most of the star colonels will (some could be freeborn), and IMO about half the star captains would have bloodnames.  Secondline & garrison galaxy star captains and commanders are where trueborn career tracks & bloodhouse politics come into play IMO.  We see examples where new ristars are sent to better secondline formations (as stated previously quality between frontline and garrison IMO) to get some command experience while in real combat- its a test to see if the warrior is that good and can run a unit.  Perform well, and you could get a shot at a command position in a frontline galaxy- anything else will increase your time in the secondline formation . . . or could result in being kicked down to a garrison galaxy.

We see several different cases, in the Invasion up to 3145, where warriors are given a command position in secondline or garrison as a challenge- 'fix this and you can get a better assignment.'

ANYWAY . . . we really do not have any indication all the frontline clusters headed back to the Home worlds.  Ulric Kerensky, Garth Fetladral and Conal Ward traveled back to the  Home worlds with their keshiks and maybe a cluster- Ulric had Golden Keshik & 4th Wolf Guards (Ranna, Carew and Evantha's posting), Garth took Silver Keshik and a Beta cluster, and Conal Ward as Loremaster had the Red Keshik  and 11th Wolf Guards (Vlad's unit IIRC).  The Ghost Bears had their Loremaster for the Invasion in a combat posting IIRC, so its likely the same thing happened- not sure if the Jag Loremaster had a combat posting or was left minding the store in the Home worlds.

For concentration, I think you are right . . . IMO depending on the Clan you are looking at anywhere of 60% (Sharks) to 80% of bloodnamed/ristars being in the frontline clusters (IIRC we have a very few galaxies that mix frontline & secondline clusters outside of Falcons).

AlphaMirage, the Invading Clans are also more likely to have the full bloodcounts than they have had in most of their history- the Invaders Clans reactivated bloodnames that had been reaved or lane dormant for some time.  It should also be noted, the Wolves would have had more than the basic Clan count- b/c of 40+3 and absorbed Widowmaker names . . . while the Jaguars could have but left Mongoose alone.  Then factor in that you are talking about 4 of the most successful Clans so there is a higher chance of abathka in vs out.

this brings up a couple other questions, then.

how many bloodnames would CGB have access to prior to the invasion, how many of each, and how many of that number has already been named in fluff and other productions.

another question is, which worlds hosted which units during the year of peace?

[Colt Ward]

Well, all the Bloodnames were revealed a few years ago . . . to my disappointment, Custer was not a Jaguar bloodname.  I loved that joke.  I do not think any of the Bear bloodnames were dormant nor did they pick up any of the Widowmaker (Wolf), Mongoose (Cloud Cobra), or dead Kindraa (Coyotes/Horses) bloodnames.  Did each of their 40 names have 25 users- which means btw a max of 1k without abathka or shared names rather than 2k?

Your best bet to figure out what units might have been on what worlds would be the 3055 deployment from Obj Raids, or any bits that might have been in Invading Clans SB.  If they were important enough to garrison by 3055, they would have been important enough to garrison after Wave 2.  Or figure they stayed on the worlds they were on when Showers fell and the Year of Peace started.

[Emcha]

Well, all the Bloodnames were revealed a few years ago . . . to my disappointment, Custer was not a Jaguar bloodname.  I loved that joke.  I do not think any of the Bear bloodnames were dormant nor did they pick up any of the Widowmaker (Wolf), Mongoose (Cloud Cobra), or dead Kindraa (Coyotes/Horses) bloodnames.  Did each of their 40 names have 25 users- which means btw a max of 1k without abathka or shared names rather than 2k?

Your best bet to figure out what units might have been on what worlds would be the 3055 deployment from Obj Raids, or any bits that might have been in Invading Clans SB.  If they were important enough to garrison by 3055, they would have been important enough to garrison after Wave 2.  Or figure they stayed on the worlds they were on when Showers fell and the Year of Peace started.

funny you should mention that:

i did a basic rundown of the frontline galaxies unit compositions for one of my previous posts, and i looked at which units took which planets in 3050, and wouldn't you know, the 3rd Bear Guards took Casere in september of 3050, it stands to reason that, given what has been established in this thread, they would be the ones to defend Casere from the party. given that Casere would basically be the front line in the timeframe this campaign begins, i doubt there would be any garrison forces on the planet maybe.

unless there were, in which case oh boy i get to preside over a spectacular humbling, one way or another.

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, a typical clan only has 1000 Blood Heritages.

Some of those will have been phased out from dishonor over 2 centuries.

The Wolves are noted as having activated every Heritage just for the Invasion even if it had been left dead, but the nature of that note for just them might mean the other clans did not do that.

This included their Widowmaker names so I think they had a full 2000 for the Invasion.

But the other clans, if they didn't activate, might have only had 900 or so, if say 10% was no longer in use.


That is still plenty of troops left since they didn't conduct any offensive operations & just had to hold the worlds they conquered from any sort of guerrilla warfare actions.

[dgorsman]

I could easily see more respected bloodname holders carrying proxy votes for other less important members of the bloodhouse that remained in the occupation zones.  Nothing stopping a trial of grievance when they get back if the proxy votes were misused.

[Hellraiser]

I've never heard of "proxy votes" in a clan council.

Is that a thing?

Reference?