Author Topic: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster  (Read 6876 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #30 on: 06 January 2020, 13:08:23 »
Apart from the Drillsons which were only invented in the 31st century IIRC,  that is a nice break down Cole.
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Colt Ward

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #31 on: 06 January 2020, 14:10:51 »
Well, I gave the Vedette, Drillsons, Marauder C, Shadow Hawk C, Victor C, and heavy hover APCs as isorla used to help fit out a garrison cluster.  Heck, if he wanted to replace a Hui and the Demon (Royal) he could throw in a pair of Axels taken from the FRR.  Really a garrison unit should not have appeared in the IS until after Showers gave Ulric the OK, so by the time they could have moved . . . '51?

I really think its too bad we did not get more of the TRO 3025 mechs as 'C's . . . Griffin, Wolverine, Enforcer, Centurion, Dervish . . . lots of FUN options there to work with.
Colt Ward
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Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #32 on: 07 January 2020, 23:40:48 »
Well, I gave the Vedette, Drillsons, Marauder C, Shadow Hawk C, Victor C, and heavy hover APCs as isorla used to help fit out a garrison cluster.  Heck, if he wanted to replace a Hui and the Demon (Royal) he could throw in a pair of Axels taken from the FRR.  Really a garrison unit should not have appeared in the IS until after Showers gave Ulric the OK, so by the time they could have moved . . . '51?

the campaign I'll be running actually begins on September 31st, 3051, literally days before the main force of the clans make their way back to the front. so the force will be dealing with garrison troops and second-line personnel for as long as it takes the clans to get to them, so maybe like 45 days roundabouts?

your suggestions is very welcome and I'll be adjusting this force accordingly.

would a, aerospace binary of Issus, Tyre, and Xerxes with a 1:3:1 ratio be suitable? or should they be more varied?
« Last Edit: 08 January 2020, 00:17:46 by Emcha »

RifleMech

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #33 on: 08 January 2020, 15:28:29 »
Have you considered adding a Nova of Kirhiz and Elementals?  It's a GB design and configuration C was designed to carry Elementals. Although now that I think about it, it could also be used to carry Jump Infantry and Paratrooper Infantry.

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #34 on: 08 January 2020, 16:05:09 »
You do not add 10 frontline fighters to a garrison . . . besides, the garrison is not going to need air drop though frontline forces as attackers would be- if you did it, at most you would want 3 points worth.

Something happened and it seems my response was deleted . . . weird.  Anyway to try to remember what I said . . . my point was that during the Year of Peace the Clan forces would not have abandoned the OZs as it sounds in early fiction/fluff.  The Khans, saKhans and maybe Loremasters would return to the Homeworlds with maybe a cluster as a bodyguard force to elect the new ilKhan in a Grand Council- but they were also holding Clan Councils, which is where things break down a bit.  Really the 4 Invading Clans SHOULD have had a quorum for each Clan in the OZ since a plurality if not majority would have been in/near the OZs with the frontline clusters and warships/DS/naval ASF.  While the garrison clusters should have arrived at that point for the other Clans, a large number of frontline clusters should have been in rest & refit for the year on OZ worlds.  Heck, the Year of Peace gave the other 3 Invaders a chance to close the logistical gap with the Wolves.

As far as ASF . . . I think 2 or 3 Star League designs like the Rapier 100/100b/101 or Lightning G15b would be appropriate.  The Bears would also lean more to heavy and medium fighters with the Bear's economic benefit.  Maybe less Tyre b/c its a Viper design- Issus definitely since its a Raven product.  The only other one missing, which might mean just one as the binary's Star Captain, would be the Hydaspes . . . a real flying brick with a good set of guns.  Give it a Xerxes as a point mate for a solid pairing.  So maybe . . .

Hydaspes/Xerxes
Xerxes/Xerxes
Xerxes/Rapier 101
Tyre/Tyre
Tyre/Tyre

Tyre/Tyre
Tomahawk C/Lightning G15b
Tomahawk C/Chaeronea
Issus/Issus
Issus/Swift C

Too bad you cannot get the Ammon, great secondline machine and its a Shark product . . . but its the 60s.
Colt Ward
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Jellico

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #35 on: 08 January 2020, 18:42:56 »
The Goth, Issedone, and Ogotai Omnifighters leap to mind as second line options.

Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #36 on: 10 January 2020, 04:07:48 »
during the Year of Peace the Clan forces would not have abandoned the OZs as it sounds in early fiction/fluff.  The Khans, saKhans and maybe Loremasters would return to the Homeworlds with maybe a cluster as a bodyguard force to elect the new ilKhan in a Grand Council- but they were also holding Clan Councils, which is where things break down a bit.  Really the 4 Invading Clans SHOULD have had a quorum for each Clan in the OZ since a plurality if not majority would have been in/near the OZs with the frontline clusters and warships/DS/naval ASF.  While the garrison clusters should have arrived at that point for the other Clans, a large number of frontline clusters should have been in rest & refit for the year on OZ worlds.  Heck, the Year of Peace gave the other 3 Invaders a chance to close the logistical gap with the Wolves.

so what naval assets would be present in CGB's occupation zone?

all I know of is the two command ships they brought.

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #37 on: 10 January 2020, 10:11:26 »
Probably not much, after Phelan convinced Ulric to bid them away most of the warships were supposed to have been withdrawn from the OZs.  With the Khans & saKhans returning to the Homeworlds I would expect them to take each galaxy's flagship.  The Clans have a few assault dropships at that point, the Noruff being the one that comes to mind most but the Bear DS fleet would also have Carriers, Titans, perhaps Claymores (doubling for planetary hops), old Star League Elephants (or new Clan built ones), SL Pentagons, and maybe Achilles as part of Combat Space Patrols.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

dgorsman

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #38 on: 10 January 2020, 12:30:17 »
Claymore?  That's a FedCom design.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #39 on: 10 January 2020, 12:30:29 »
Probably not much, after Phelan convinced Ulric to bid them away most of the warships were supposed to have been withdrawn from the OZs.  With the Khans & saKhans returning to the Homeworlds I would expect them to take each galaxy's flagship.  The Clans have a few assault dropships at that point, the Noruff being the one that comes to mind most but the Bear DS fleet would also have Carriers, Titans, perhaps Claymores (doubling for planetary hops), old Star League Elephants (or new Clan built ones), SL Pentagons, and maybe Achilles as part of Combat Space Patrols.

Warships particularly of the old SLDF manufacture are very good for carrying lots of things and just because they were bid away doesn't mean they weren't in use in noncombat roles.  If I remember correctly the Snow Ravens did deploy some Warships to help the Ghost Bears out but I don't remember if that was in the initial offense or later on.  You could have a few destroyers plying the space lanes protecting merchant traffic in the OZ as well as along the Exodus Road.

That said a Carrier is a fearsome combatant and at least one would have been deployed with most Merchant convoys and definitely for any Warrior battle group.

RifleMech

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #40 on: 10 January 2020, 12:37:54 »
You do not add 10 frontline fighters to a garrison . . . besides, the garrison is not going to need air drop though frontline forces as attackers would be- if you did it, at most you would want 3 points worth.

On the other hand the Kirghiz is old enough to have spread all over the Clan's forces. So I can see it as being one of the few OMNI Fighters that might be used by a garrison. I can especially see 3 points of them being assigned to a unit garrisoning a IS world. The flexibility of an OMNI would help defending the world. Plus an Elemental star can do a lot to a rioting crowd. A sonic boom followed by rain of toad would break up a lot of riots. And then the Kirghiz can go back and pick up some regular infantry.

There's also all kinds of terrain where air dropping your troops can be of an advantage.



Colt Ward

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #41 on: 10 January 2020, 12:52:45 »
Claymore?  That's a FedCom design.

Sorry, I always flip that and the Broadsword.

We are told by the fluff, and I want to say it stayed consistent in ER3052, that the warships were bid away after Edo & the Rasalhague invasion as a prestige.  I think most left the OZs until after Tukayyid.  With that said, PCs are unlikely to encounter a warship guarding a world a old garrison cluster is assigned to rather than a frontline or secondline cluster on a important world- but that is my view.  The Ravens rented Aegis cruisers to the Jade Falcons, their collaboration with the Bears over the Leviathan/Ark Royal was for the invasion.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #42 on: 12 January 2020, 00:16:14 »
Not sure about WS leaving the OZ.

I seem to recall the Falcons still had their 10? Aegis on contract from the Ravens for the entire invasion.

I think at most you'd just see them doing more escort duties for shipments of supplies to/from the OZ & Homeworlds.

And I doubt any Khan/SaKhan is traveling in anything but a Warship at that time.

But I'm sure they are hanging out at the Jump Points instead of moving in system to take up orbit.


The Clans didn't abandon the OZ at all in early fluff.

They just had to have the Blood Named leave (max of 2K per Clan)

But most unblooded warriors were noted to have stayed behind.   (Phelan's crew seeming to be the exception of course)

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Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #43 on: 14 January 2020, 05:40:01 »
Not sure about WS leaving the OZ.

I seem to recall the Falcons still had their 10? Aegis on contract from the Ravens for the entire invasion.

I think at most you'd just see them doing more escort duties for shipments of supplies to/from the OZ & Homeworlds.

And I doubt any Khan/SaKhan is traveling in anything but a Warship at that time.

But I'm sure they are hanging out at the Jump Points instead of moving in system to take up orbit.


The Clans didn't abandon the OZ at all in early fluff.

They just had to have the Blood Named leave (max of 2K per Clan)

But most unblooded warriors were noted to have stayed behind.   (Phelan's crew seeming to be the exception of course)

so only about 2,000 warriors from each clan would be taken back to clan space. for some reason i thought it would be a larger number.

of course, based on the numbers i could find, Alpha, Beta, and Delta Galaxies combined total 2,310 warriors. although i'm sure a plurality of them were not bloodnamed, the nature of the operation meant all the bloodnamed warriors would be fighting tooth and nail just to get into the drop order.

40% loss of a military unit, to any cause, from combat loss to R&R leave, is enough to make it combat ineffective; and if only 40% of each galaxy had to rush home that severely hampers the ability of the remaining forces to conduct military operations. in a defensive battle this is less important, but I get the feeling that clanners don't dig.


AlphaMirage

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #44 on: 14 January 2020, 07:50:56 »
That 2000 number also is a bit high because of the improbability of all Bloodhouses being fully stocked and on the line.  Many of the lesser lineages rarely have their full roster of 25 filled out, possibly having fallen prey to Reavings in the past; or their material just might not be very effective in contrast to the superstars.  I'd say that on average any Clan likely has 60% tops of their Bloodnamed slots in some kind of service which can include Solahma and possibly much less in some hardline Clans (Jaguars/Vipers/Spirits) due to their brutal training.

Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #45 on: 14 January 2020, 08:12:16 »
That 2000 number also is a bit high because of the improbability of all Bloodhouses being fully stocked and on the line.  Many of the lesser lineages rarely have their full roster of 25 filled out, possibly having fallen prey to Reavings in the past; or their material just might not be very effective in contrast to the superstars.  I'd say that on average any Clan likely has 60% tops of their Bloodnamed slots in some kind of service which can include Solahma and possibly much less in some hardline Clans (Jaguars/Vipers/Spirits) due to their brutal training.

this is good info.

I would imagine, though, that any bloodnamed warrior in clan ghost bear who was elligible for combat would do their damndest to get into the operation, and as a result the three galaxies that took part in the operation might have had a higher than usual concentration of bloodnamed warriors. or maybe i'm wrong. i'm probably wrong.

Colt Ward

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #46 on: 14 January 2020, 10:40:23 »
The other thing is this- the Clans held meetings with folks by remote who were in the Homeworlds, so the bloodname leaving the OZ is a hand-wave matter.  I am not sure how it would be addressed now . . . which is probably why it was not in ER3052.

The problem with 'all' the Bloodnamed leaving the OZs is pretty simple . . . its your officer corp.  For the frontline Invasion units your galaxy commanders, star colonels and many of the star captains & commanders are bloodnamed.  Alpha and Beta even have bloodnamed as regular warriors- its more prestigious to be a line mechwarrior in Alpha than it is to be a star commander in a secondline galaxy- or even in Gamma or Delta.  In addition, a mechwarrior was more likely to see action in Alpha or Beta than any other galaxy- and your codex is how you got into the breeding program.  To be unblooded & a star colonel in a frontline galaxy you have to be a ristar and an exceptional warrior/commander- Ulric did it waiting for a specific bloodnamed.  In secondline and garrison galaxies, in al but rare cases the galaxy commander will have a bloodname, most of the star colonels will (some could be freeborn), and IMO about half the star captains would have bloodnames.  Secondline & garrison galaxy star captains and commanders are where trueborn career tracks & bloodhouse politics come into play IMO.  We see examples where new ristars are sent to better secondline formations (as stated previously quality between frontline and garrison IMO) to get some command experience while in real combat- its a test to see if the warrior is that good and can run a unit.  Perform well, and you could get a shot at a command position in a frontline galaxy- anything else will increase your time in the secondline formation . . . or could result in being kicked down to a garrison galaxy.

We see several different cases, in the Invasion up to 3145, where warriors are given a command position in secondline or garrison as a challenge- 'fix this and you can get a better assignment.'

ANYWAY . . . we really do not have any indication all the frontline clusters headed back to the Home worlds.  Ulric Kerensky, Garth Fetladral and Conal Ward traveled back to the  Home worlds with their keshiks and maybe a cluster- Ulric had Golden Keshik & 4th Wolf Guards (Ranna, Carew and Evantha's posting), Garth took Silver Keshik and a Beta cluster, and Conal Ward as Loremaster had the Red Keshik  and 11th Wolf Guards (Vlad's unit IIRC).  The Ghost Bears had their Loremaster for the Invasion in a combat posting IIRC, so its likely the same thing happened- not sure if the Jag Loremaster had a combat posting or was left minding the store in the Home worlds.

For concentration, I think you are right . . . IMO depending on the Clan you are looking at anywhere of 60% (Sharks) to 80% of bloodnamed/ristars being in the frontline clusters (IIRC we have a very few galaxies that mix frontline & secondline clusters outside of Falcons).

AlphaMirage, the Invading Clans are also more likely to have the full bloodcounts than they have had in most of their history- the Invaders Clans reactivated bloodnames that had been reaved or lane dormant for some time.  It should also be noted, the Wolves would have had more than the basic Clan count- b/c of 40+3 and absorbed Widowmaker names . . . while the Jaguars could have but left Mongoose alone.  Then factor in that you are talking about 4 of the most successful Clans so there is a higher chance of abathka in vs out.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #47 on: 14 January 2020, 14:15:39 »
The other thing is this- the Clans held meetings with folks by remote who were in the Homeworlds, so the bloodname leaving the OZ is a hand-wave matter.  I am not sure how it would be addressed now . . . which is probably why it was not in ER3052.

The problem with 'all' the Bloodnamed leaving the OZs is pretty simple . . . its your officer corp.  For the frontline Invasion units your galaxy commanders, star colonels and many of the star captains & commanders are bloodnamed.  Alpha and Beta even have bloodnamed as regular warriors- its more prestigious to be a line mechwarrior in Alpha than it is to be a star commander in a secondline galaxy- or even in Gamma or Delta.  In addition, a mechwarrior was more likely to see action in Alpha or Beta than any other galaxy- and your codex is how you got into the breeding program.  To be unblooded & a star colonel in a frontline galaxy you have to be a ristar and an exceptional warrior/commander- Ulric did it waiting for a specific bloodnamed.  In secondline and garrison galaxies, in al but rare cases the galaxy commander will have a bloodname, most of the star colonels will (some could be freeborn), and IMO about half the star captains would have bloodnames.  Secondline & garrison galaxy star captains and commanders are where trueborn career tracks & bloodhouse politics come into play IMO.  We see examples where new ristars are sent to better secondline formations (as stated previously quality between frontline and garrison IMO) to get some command experience while in real combat- its a test to see if the warrior is that good and can run a unit.  Perform well, and you could get a shot at a command position in a frontline galaxy- anything else will increase your time in the secondline formation . . . or could result in being kicked down to a garrison galaxy.

We see several different cases, in the Invasion up to 3145, where warriors are given a command position in secondline or garrison as a challenge- 'fix this and you can get a better assignment.'

ANYWAY . . . we really do not have any indication all the frontline clusters headed back to the Home worlds.  Ulric Kerensky, Garth Fetladral and Conal Ward traveled back to the  Home worlds with their keshiks and maybe a cluster- Ulric had Golden Keshik & 4th Wolf Guards (Ranna, Carew and Evantha's posting), Garth took Silver Keshik and a Beta cluster, and Conal Ward as Loremaster had the Red Keshik  and 11th Wolf Guards (Vlad's unit IIRC).  The Ghost Bears had their Loremaster for the Invasion in a combat posting IIRC, so its likely the same thing happened- not sure if the Jag Loremaster had a combat posting or was left minding the store in the Home worlds.

For concentration, I think you are right . . . IMO depending on the Clan you are looking at anywhere of 60% (Sharks) to 80% of bloodnamed/ristars being in the frontline clusters (IIRC we have a very few galaxies that mix frontline & secondline clusters outside of Falcons).

AlphaMirage, the Invading Clans are also more likely to have the full bloodcounts than they have had in most of their history- the Invaders Clans reactivated bloodnames that had been reaved or lane dormant for some time.  It should also be noted, the Wolves would have had more than the basic Clan count- b/c of 40+3 and absorbed Widowmaker names . . . while the Jaguars could have but left Mongoose alone.  Then factor in that you are talking about 4 of the most successful Clans so there is a higher chance of abathka in vs out.

this brings up a couple other questions, then.

how many bloodnames would CGB have access to prior to the invasion, how many of each, and how many of that number has already been named in fluff and other productions.

another question is, which worlds hosted which units during the year of peace?

Colt Ward

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #48 on: 14 January 2020, 15:08:56 »
Well, all the Bloodnames were revealed a few years ago . . . to my disappointment, Custer was not a Jaguar bloodname.  I loved that joke.  I do not think any of the Bear bloodnames were dormant nor did they pick up any of the Widowmaker (Wolf), Mongoose (Cloud Cobra), or dead Kindraa (Coyotes/Horses) bloodnames.  Did each of their 40 names have 25 users- which means btw a max of 1k without abathka or shared names rather than 2k?

Your best bet to figure out what units might have been on what worlds would be the 3055 deployment from Obj Raids, or any bits that might have been in Invading Clans SB.  If they were important enough to garrison by 3055, they would have been important enough to garrison after Wave 2.  Or figure they stayed on the worlds they were on when Showers fell and the Year of Peace started.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Emcha

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #49 on: 14 January 2020, 19:35:27 »
Well, all the Bloodnames were revealed a few years ago . . . to my disappointment, Custer was not a Jaguar bloodname.  I loved that joke.  I do not think any of the Bear bloodnames were dormant nor did they pick up any of the Widowmaker (Wolf), Mongoose (Cloud Cobra), or dead Kindraa (Coyotes/Horses) bloodnames.  Did each of their 40 names have 25 users- which means btw a max of 1k without abathka or shared names rather than 2k?

Your best bet to figure out what units might have been on what worlds would be the 3055 deployment from Obj Raids, or any bits that might have been in Invading Clans SB.  If they were important enough to garrison by 3055, they would have been important enough to garrison after Wave 2.  Or figure they stayed on the worlds they were on when Showers fell and the Year of Peace started.

funny you should mention that:

i did a basic rundown of the frontline galaxies unit compositions for one of my previous posts, and i looked at which units took which planets in 3050, and wouldn't you know, the 3rd Bear Guards took Casere in september of 3050, it stands to reason that, given what has been established in this thread, they would be the ones to defend Casere from the party. given that Casere would basically be the front line in the timeframe this campaign begins, i doubt there would be any garrison forces on the planet maybe.

unless there were, in which case oh boy i get to preside over a spectacular humbling, one way or another.

Hellraiser

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #50 on: 16 January 2020, 18:54:49 »
Yeah, a typical clan only has 1000 Blood Heritages.

Some of those will have been phased out from dishonor over 2 centuries.

The Wolves are noted as having activated every Heritage just for the Invasion even if it had been left dead, but the nature of that note for just them might mean the other clans did not do that.

This included their Widowmaker names so I think they had a full 2000 for the Invasion.

But the other clans, if they didn't activate, might have only had 900 or so, if say 10% was no longer in use.


That is still plenty of troops left since they didn't conduct any offensive operations & just had to hold the worlds they conquered from any sort of guerrilla warfare actions.

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #51 on: 16 January 2020, 21:34:57 »
I could easily see more respected bloodname holders carrying proxy votes for other less important members of the bloodhouse that remained in the occupation zones.  Nothing stopping a trial of grievance when they get back if the proxy votes were misused.
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Hellraiser

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Re: clan Ghost Bear garrison cluster
« Reply #52 on: 16 January 2020, 22:04:17 »
I've never heard of "proxy votes" in a clan council.

Is that a thing?

Reference?

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo