Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión

[Nerroth]

One thing about Waypoint 531 is that, to IE, at least, it's a known entity. (It's shown as "Waystation 531" on the coreward Deep Periphery map in ISP3.) If at least one Spheroid organisation knows where it is (and if IE know of it, it's hard not to imagine that the Republic does, too) then it becomes a liability, in terms of the Homeworld Clans' long-term plans.

So, even if the Scorpions weren't keeping tabs on it, it might not be that good an idea for the Star Adders to try and hold it. Better to look for some other system to use as part of the logistical chain they'll likely want to establish between the Homeworlds and Imperio (and Hansa) space.

[Kilraven]

 Is Waystation 531 shown as coreward & spinward  (up &right) of the Esc Imp ?

[Nerroth]

It looks to be around 250-odd light years coreward of the most anti-spinward point of the Nueva Castile outline, if that makes sense.

(If you haven't gotten ISP3 or WoR:S yet, I would highly recommend both.)

[Deathknight69]

Ok, Noob question here. Where can I find info/stats on these guys and gals?

[Moonsword]

On who?

[Jaim Magnus]

Ok, Noob question here. Where can I find info/stats on these guys and gals?

On the Imperio?  Wars of Reaving, Wars of Reaving Supplemental, Interstellar Players 3.

[Deathknight69]

Is there anything down-loadable from the site here??

[Moonsword]

Not at the moment.

[Deathknight69]

Bummer

[Hedgehogey]

So is it fair to say he went to Djerassi Junior High?

CGS school drama....

"Get in loser, we're going Seeking!"

[BlackKnight95]

CGS school drama....

"Get in loser, we're going Seeking!"

What does a Clan Goliath Scorpion initiation and a High school drama share ? 
the answer Drugs

[Kilraven]

 Alright, let us try a mental exercise.

 Circa 3086, Chi Galaxy (seekers) is in as bad a shape as the rest of the touman.

 Place yourself in the shoes of Galaxy Commander Lukas Shaffer, your primary mission is to organize seeker expeditions.

 Here is what you have to work with in the short term: (using the 5 trinary to a cluster approach)

 1st Seeker cluster   Veteran  35% strength  (roughly 1 trinary & 1 binary)

 2nd Seeker cluster  Veteran  60% strength  (roughly 3 trinary)

 3rd Seeker cluster   Green    15% strength  (roughly 1 binary)

 Remember, the difference with seekers is the duration of the expedition and the rather small logistical 'footprint' available.

 Effectively what the jump & drop ships can carry plus whatever supplies the unit can pick up along the way.

 As of 3086 we can logically expect the four line galaxies will have priority on Imperio military equiptment. Chi galaxy will probably have priority over Omega galaxy.

 What would you do?  I'll post my first thoughts tommorow.

[Kilraven]

 OK I will go first,

 1st and 3rd clusters are to be assigned to Loremaster Sargon Ben-Shimon.
 
 1st cluster is to remain within 150 ly of the Imperio and open five trials of position for volunteers to join the cluster. Looking to form a mixed star of armor and elementals. Bringing the binary up to a full trinary. Will require 1 jumpship of smallest class.

 3rd cluster (green warriors fresh out of sibko) are to be assigned a star of elementals bringing the force to a full trinary, and undertake intense training under the supervision of the Loremaster.(tailor made for new rpg characters) Jumpship asset to be determined by Loremaster.

 2nd cluster will undertake seeker missions as follows:

  Command Trinary, Cuirassiers

  1st grenadier binary

  2nd hussar binary

  3rd dragoon binary

  The cluster will require four jumpships of the smallest class able to carry two dropships each.(primary and backup/ supplies storage)

 If it is determined craft are unavailable, consolidation of forces into trinaries is an option, with equivalent loss of flexibility an acceptable condition.

 If approved by clan council will provide an expedition of four seeker units with good flexibility.

[Kilraven]

Or how about this?

 Per WoR pgs. 157 & 158

 Dec 3078;  The Cloud Cobra trial on Hector occurs. Scorpions abjured soon after.

 Oct 3079;  Cloud Cobras begin assault operation on Roche to complete the abjurement.

 Jan 3080;  Roche falls to the Cloud Cobras, we are cast out.
                  Tau Galaxy makes planetfall on Granada.
                  Rho & Beta Galaxies make planetfall on Cordoba & Valencia.

 Please note that the Cobras were in no hurry, Roche fell after two to three months of combat.

 Now let us say that due to the nature of the offense, a Grand Council was convened in Jan 3079 and abjured us before the end of the month.

 That would give the Loremaster eight months to effect the evacuation of the Temple of Nine Muses before the Cobras begin the assault on Roche, at which time heavy interdiction of out bound dropships could be expected.

 Given a good six months for the evac, what items do you think arrived at the new Temple & Seeker HQ?
                 

 

[Kilraven]

  On an entirely different track.

 How many Imperio worlds could the goliath scorpion (if released into the wild >:D)adapt and survive on?

 Personaly seeing as it is an arachnid, I would like to see it spread thruout the Imperio, but if lucky perhaps half.

 

[Aleksandr]

OK I will go first,

 1st and 3rd clusters are to be assigned to Loremaster Sargon Ben-Shimon.
 
 1st cluster is to remain within 150 ly of the Imperio and open five trials of position for volunteers to join the cluster. Looking to form a mixed star of armor and elementals. Bringing the binary up to a full trinary. Will require 1 jumpship of smallest class.

 3rd cluster (green warriors fresh out of sibko) are to be assigned a star of elementals bringing the force to a full trinary, and undertake intense training under the supervision of the Loremaster.(tailor made for new rpg characters) Jumpship asset to be determined by Loremaster.

 2nd cluster will undertake seeker missions as follows:

  Command Trinary, Cuirassiers

  1st grenadier binary

  2nd hussar binary

  3rd dragoon binary

  The cluster will require four jumpships of the smallest class able to carry two dropships each.(primary and backup/ supplies storage)

 If it is determined craft are unavailable, consolidation of forces into trinaries is an option, with equivalent loss of flexibility an acceptable condition.

 If approved by clan council will provide an expedition of four seeker units with good flexibility.

The Imperio is too new and too threatened to risk sending out a cluster's worth of troops. Instead, I would put them on a mission closer to home.

I'm of two minds on whether or not to merge the 1st and 2nd clusters. If you merge them, you'll end up with a nearly full strength Veteran cluster, but I assume that Seekers don't have the greatest unit cohesion. Keeping them separate also lets you send the weaker one out to the Hanseatic League or Exodus Road later, so I can see some upsides to it.

At home, though, you set the 1st and 2nd to scour the Imperio looking for weapons. Mechs, tanks, ASF, even just caches of components - find it all and bring it in for the touman. The techs can upgrade what they can, and the rest can be put to use with the Garrison galaxies.

The 3rd has a more important mission. Since they're greenies anyway, they are the ideal unit to open up to warriors from the Imperio's population. Using the 3rd as an experiment, you let the Sphereoid mechwarriors take Necrosia and see if they can integrate with the Clan culture. You also set them a greater mission: Finding the origin of the Umayyads.

[Colt Ward]

Why?  so you can know for certain they are a splinter of the missing Wolverines?

Let dead dogs lie.

Honestly, I think the best things they could begin to build would be a tracked 50 tons or less tank . . . something like the export Joust with its LRMs would be best.  After that would be getting their battle armor production up to speed.  Those two weapon systems are very good for defense, which is what they need to focus on first- mechs are offensive power projection tools.

Though I do agree about combing out the planets to find any military gear no matter how old.  After all, worn out cast offs generally get handed to training commands.  I would even go so far as to say that any work mechs, which are not really expected vs the IS, should be taken and armed.  Again, for training command if nothing else.

I also think the Scorpions need to set up a intense training/reserve program.  While the Clan way might not be simulators for training, its time to change and a good place to start weeding out the recruits or at least ranking them.  I would also say have a trinary or two of gear- mostly BA & vehicles or even infantry (who can become BA troopers when there is equipment) and assign your reserves to them on a rotating basis.  The equipment is in full time use . . . but say you have 24 reserve trinaries of the same composition and each one is stood up for a month of duty before rotating back to stand by.  Sure they will be green, but they are also your expansion program.

[wellspring]

To some extent, they're changing everything else, why not reinvent the Seeker tradition?

On the face of it, it's a vast waste of resources that could be spent on defense. And for what? Collecting relics of the Star League? They could trade a Mech or two on an expedition to the Inner Sphere, or even some tech readouts, and come back with more Star League trinkets than all that had been collected since Klondike put together. NC was never even aware of the SL's existence, so where do these seekers go? The IS or clan homeworlds are pretty much their options.

But if "Seeking" is used to justify guarding trading missions, then they can pay their way. Another possibility: raids on IS targets for technology, if you want to go the military route. The IS clans won't want to talk, but the Great Houses might, or even some corporations who want access to discount clantech.

At the distances we're talking about, Seekers' autonomy and experience with long missions makes them viable for hunting and gathering resources and expertise that they didn't bring with them and desperately need.

[Kilraven]

 Coltward,
 I agree with your thought of 50t or lighter armor, however, unless they are using streak LRM/SRM I would pass on the missile tanks.

 The point to remember is the small logistic supply. Seeker expeditions operate in the six month to year (or longer) timeframe. As an S.O.P. automatically bring a extra pt. of armor in the 'spare' dropship (you know you will need it).

 Aleksandr,
 As of 3086 we have been in the Imperio for five years, time to SEEK. Though I can see merit in your train of thought. Sending the 1st cluster to strip leftovers from the Operation Revival route is very good. Upgrade to a two or three dropship capable jumpship and snap up anything and everything. Add in a trinary? of labor and a star? of tech castemen, they can train in low/zero G conditions on the way out. (The Exodus road has long since been cleaned, not that there was much to begin with.)

 Wellspring,
 We spend an inordinate amount of time in the old RWR area.
  We are seekers , that is what we do. The idea is to have the flexibility to carry out all the types of missions you listed and more. Anything you can dream up, we can accomplish.
 

 

[Nerroth]

According to The Wars of Reaving: Supplemental, a group of Seekers has been tasked with investigating the Umayyad origin question, though it hasn't gone smoothly. (The Coyotes launched a raid on Navarre in 3088, during which they inserted a number of Watch agents who insinuated that the Umayyads may have been descended from the Wolverines. Once this rumour reached the ears of the Imperio's War Leaders, relations rapidly deteriorated between the Scorpions and Umayyads.)

[Jaim Magnus]

Hmm, forgot about that bit.  So Seekers as internal police?

[Aleksandr]

Merging the Seekers with the Watch might be a great idea. They're already halfway toward being commandos - why not go all out?

Honestly, the Scorpions need to foreswear any kind of punishment or vengeance if the Umayyads do happen to be Wolverines. They can't afford to cling to all of their history as Clanners - especially if it will jeopardize their position. Then Seeking the truth of the Umayyad origin can be a unifying mission rather than a divisive one.

In the course of the investigation, if they're working with the Watch, they might be able to dig up some hostile agents too. The big question I'm wondering about now, though, is what happens if they pick up a Diamond Shark agent? Do the Scorpions hate the Sphere clans as much as the rest of the Homeworlders, or would they be willing to work with them to some extent?

[Kilraven]

 As to wether the Ummayids are in any way connected to the not-named, I personally do not care.

 Our orbital bombardment of Brim, and the death of TWO MILLION civilians burns out any morale outrage in regard to what the not-named did to the Ravens. (WoR pg.96)

 We are no better than they were.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Hmm, forgot about that bit.  So Seekers as internal police?

Aye. The Seekers of Truth.

Coltward,
 I agree with your thought of 50t or lighter armor, however, unless they are using streak LRM/SRM I would pass on the missile tanks.

I agree. The Scorpions are famous for disdaining missile weapons. A good point for the Scorpions to start with defensive armor and BA would be the Mithras ERLL(comes with a TarComp too), and some kind of Hauberk IIC. It was based on an Undine, so if they can acquire some, reverse-engineering them to Clan standards would make a real defensive powerhouse.

[Colt Ward]

Well, the Joust had the ERLL and LRMs . . . and what I suggested would not have them assigned to truebirth Scorpions but rather the freebirth defensive formations which are not away from supply.  Also remember now that they are mixing three, or four depending on your views, military traditions- Scorpion, Hellion and Nueva Castile- so the direct fire preference will fade somewhat.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

For every Joust, they can build at least 2 or 3 Mithras, it has the speed that the ex-Hellions will crave while the weapons preferred by Scorpions. The Castilians and Umayyads would be happy just to get their hands on Clantech, and the tank's weight makes it easier to transport/more expendable compared to the Joust. Also, they already possess the schematics for the Mithras, but not the Joust, which postdates the cutoff of relations between Homeworlds and Sphere (and they probably wouldn't have any relations with an Abjured and geographically-distant Clan).

Also, i believe even with the absorption of so many different peoples, the Scorpions are the dominant element of the Touman in terms of numbers and senior positions held, so the direct fire preference will be retained and even influence/modify the culture of the others.

[Colt Ward]

Joust BE701- 1.65 mcb, 5/8, ERLL for 10pt hit, LRMs for direct/indirect, AP weapons, and 8t FF armor

Mithras- .87 mcb, 6/9, UAC/2, 2 ERML (1 in turret), 3.5t FF armor

Double the cost true but . . . well over twice the armor, 5 (or 2.5 in ultra) times the ranged punch roughly before entering LRM range, anti-personnel weapons, and the main gun is ammo independent . . . all for a bit of speed loss.

If you are not building Enyos, its the best alternate.

Btw, the ERLL version is a Jihad variant . . . which means they do not have it, if you are going to suggest the Shark/Foxes are not trading with them.  Even supposing the ERLL, you still end up with comparable firepower (ERLL x2 vs ERLL & LRM10) at range with the Joust being better up close.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

There's no reason to limit the ERLL version to just the IS Clans, and i only suggested the ERLL version, not the crappy original. The 6/9 movement means they have superior mobility and the TarComp can let them snipe from range without needing to get in so close.

In terms of AP weapons, the Mithras' AP Gauss is superior(and also tied into TC) but the most important factor is cost. The Imperio economy is not so entrenched, so Mithras still trumps Joust in that respect.

[Colt Ward]

Why not limit it, fluff says Jihad?

Sure you can buy 2 Mithras for the Joust 701 . . . but you ARE going to need to buy more because they are not as durable, the Joust has 130% more armor and when the range hits 21, twice the available power.  I would honestly figure it as a 3 for 1 combat power ratio, in which case the price tag of the Joust is better.

As for the AP comparison . . . the Mithras gets a bit more range, but the 8 LMGs will put down more than the AP even without burst rules.

6/9 vs 5/8 in vehicles is just not as big a difference as the minor improvement it is in mechs.

[Offworlder]

Regarding Scorpion aquisition of hardware, are we sure that they are so isolated? For example, don't they trade with the Sharks?

Frankly, given their adjurement and their rather novel way of dealing with the new situation, they might be less hidebound 'clan' and more 'open' to discussions....