Bienvenidos al Imperio del Escorpión

[Maelwys]

Fiction pieces (Stories and novels) are coinsidered to be more accurate than sourcebook fiction. The sourcebook fiction is like reading a history book -- it been "Researched" but has "biases" in it from the In-universe author (the Comstar authot, or whever is supposed to have written the book). The Battlecorps stories, the introduction fiction, and the novels are "The real story."

Craig

Haven't they started to revise that? I swear there was something on the forums in the last iteration where even novels and stores written from an omniscient point weren't necessarily correct.

[ABADDON]

I guess that refers more to "technical issues" in terms of fiction vs. rules, not so much concerning the actual plot of the novels.

[Kilraven]

This is why you need to get Historical: Operation Klondike next!    ;D  Lots of excellent stuff about the founders and the original warriors.

The Scorpions founders are Cyrus Elam (he was an engineer) and Jenna Scott (an intelligence officer and possible ninja).  Ethan Moreau stayed behind in the Pentagon during the Second Exodus, so was not one of the 800 and had no Bloodline.  The Goliath Scorpions petitioned to take him in so he could be used to train younger warriors.   There was a separate Moreau Bloodline belonging to Clan Star Adder (via Clan Burrock), but it was unrelated.

Also, Naomi Djerassi was very important to the early Scorpions.  She had a huge role where she was isolated yet achieved a key victory by herself.   She also became a fearsome legend through this.  I'll not give it away, but it is worth every penny to get Op Klondike.  It's another excellent book.

 Rebs,

 Thanks for correcting me,

  Cyrus Elam was the SLDF Cbt Engr & Ethan Moreau was the fellow who indirectly introduced the use of necrosia into the Scorpions.

 I remember Naomi Djerassi, it is in her honor we 'Dance the Scars' to this day.

  The old brain is not what it used to be.
Does this mean I am eligigible for a Solahma unit? :))

[Kilraven]

 Abaddon,

 I have not read 'Betrayal of Ideals', so from what I gather the novel finally tells the truth as to the annihilation of the not-named (clan wolverine).

 Has this knowledge become widespread inside the BT universe?

 My comments were referring to the common knowledge taught to all clanners.

 That the not-named used a tactical nuclear device and destroyed a Snow Raven enclave (including their genetic repository).
They were then annihilated and their name erased.

 I was making the point from a quasi in character position that our (Goliath Scorpion) orbital bombardment of Brim during the reavings was actually a worse 'sin' against the way of the clans than what the not-named had been destroyed for.

 I apologize to all for any confusion.

 Another book added to the list.

 

 

[ABADDON]

Excellent read, you will definitely enjoy reading it, though you will need a BattleCorps subscription to access it.

Also puts the Wolverine-related stories in "Jihad Secrets" and "Interstellar Expeditions" in a new light.

[Offworlder]

The scorpions don't have much that the Sharks want... a few extra planets and a crumbling infrastructure. The Sharks already have all that, and don't seem interested in expanding their holdings, least of all not in full view of the Home Clans. If the Sharks need more industry (and this point can be debated since there's some speculation that they have more resources off-camera than they're letting on), then the Scorpions are the last group they want to deal with. Both clans have the same problems and the same things to offer. Much better to partner with someone whose strengths and weaknesses are opposite yours so you have a basis for trade.

If the Sharks did do a deal, they would want the full imprimatur of the Council of Six first. This is a case where you ask permission rather than forgiveness. Secrecy in this case is counterproductive.

OTOH, cutting a deal with the Lyrans or RotS or FedSuns or whomever makes a great deal of sense for both sides. More importantly, the threat that they might do a deal like that could give them the leverage they need to gain admission to the Council of Six and economic assistance. Go straight to the COuncil, and they'll say "no" because they won't see much upside to doing a deal and are holding a grudge. Go to the IS first, and let the other clans come to you, and suddenly they see the strategic benefits of pulling them on-board.

You might be right about the IS Clans accepting more heterodoxy than in the past. More than five castes seems like a violation of the Clan Way to me, but you do have a point that things have changed.

BTW cast my vote now for Spanish-school fencing as a freebirth alternative to knife duels in the Scorpions. I have an idea for a vignette that involves the scorpions, but it's so cool I'd rather Ben or someone think of it independently and get it into print than write it up myself as fan fic.

Something else that has to be kept in mind is that the Sharks have either hid their immobile assets in the Chaneline Isles and are very jealous about revealing their location and that a particularly large part of their industry is spacefaring. It seems that they want to have enough left over to survive and eventual Revival 2 and are hedging their bets. Therefore I don't think that they will actually set up shop in the Imperio since a) there isn't much profit in the venture and b) the Homeclanner's raid does not bode well. However, I can see the Sharks supplying the Scorpions some hardware from time to time secretely, if anything to get what little intelligence the Scorpions might have on the Home Clans

Regarding Scorpion contacts with the IS, I'm not sure it will work out. Nothing so far indicates that the Scorpions possess the assets or have the will to conduct such long range trade. Though clantech would be very appreciated in the IS, I'm not really sure that constant contacts could be maintained.

[rebs]

Fiction pieces (Stories and novels) are coinsidered to be more accurate than sourcebook fiction. The sourcebook fiction is like reading a history book -- it been "Researched" but has "biases" in it from the In-universe author (the Comstar authot, or whever is supposed to have written the book). The Battlecorps stories, the introduction fiction, and the novels are "The real story."

Craig

Was glad to see this regarding layers of canonicity, as well as glad to read a definitive answer on exactly how Betrayal of Ideals stands.  It rang too much of the truth to be totally dismissed.  If the Not-Named were actually White Hats, even remotely, it's significant that Nick K chose to get rid of them pretty much right away.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=11331.0

I found the link ... which was the question Jaim Magnus asked.  I interpret it differently, but thems the breaks.  Even a cryptic developer answer is more than I honestly would have expected.

 

[St.George]

I'd think the Sharks would have no prob's keeping contact with the Scorp's,as well as trading.Nice lil'area to stage covert op's from into the homeworlds.A small enclave wouldn't be hard to maintain.

Also if the Umm's had any connection to the "Not-named",what do you think the Bears would do?We saw what they did to the Wobbies when that connection was applied.The big white-furry steamroller was headed to Terra with gun's-ah-blazzin'.

[Kilraven]

 For those interested,

 Hooked up my brother yesterday, won three out of five trials.
(all designs were homemade, 25t 45t 65t 85t & 95t)

 2nd dragoon binary performed a trial of possession against clan Stone Lion.

 Obtained one star of 50t hovers, one star of 80t tracked arrow launchers and a star of Roc protos. Equiptment only no lions were abtakha'd.

 Lost a star of 25t scouts and 65t attack battlemechs. No omnis were bid.

 Edit; These were the various proof of concept tests for the simple mech, gave the designs to opponent for two trials lost.   

 

[truetanker]

Is this AU, Kilraven or cannon unit?

Just curious.

TT O:-)

[Kilraven]

 Truetanker,

 Not canon, just my seeker binary.

 My brother was kind enough to let me run tests on the 'zombie' mechs I designed as a stop-gap for us scorpions until production kicks in.

[Kilraven]

 Wow it is really quiet out there.

 There is something that has been tickling my brain.

 WoR pg.117 second full paragraph.

 The scorpion enclave on Grants Station. After the society HPG virus had struck.

 In the spring of 3073 the vipers discovered that the scorpion enclave(s) were empty.

 Here is where it gets interesting.

 There were "some bodies" of deceased lower caste personnel, however it was a small fraction of the last known population.

 There were no warriors among the dead.

 The military equipment was gone.

 The mech (omni?) factories (#?) had been leveled or stripped.

 What happened ??????

 Anyones best guess as to which cluster/galaxy was garrisoning Grants Station in 3073?

 Doubtful it was bandit caste or burrocks, the scorpion warriors would have fought, leaving behind some evidence. Besides any equipment taken by burrocks or bandit caste would have been used.

 


 

[GreekFire]

Every time I try to find this thread I end up hunting through the Clan Chatterweb section.. -___-;;

Yeah, I remember reading about that, Kilraven.  Mu Galaxy, under the command of Galaxy Commander Allison Baba, took the holdings they had there from the Wolves. There's no mention of Mu Galaxy in any other published work released after the WoR.

A bit of research shows that Mu Galaxy had the reputation of being home to the Clan's troublemakers. They used deceptive tactics, and rumors abounded that Baba had Dark Caste members as charges. Sounds like Mu Galaxy went rogue, possibly hooked up with some convincing bandits. Where to though...who knows. Green Ghosts? :D :D

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm stupid. Mu Galaxy is listed at the end of WoR. Baba is MIA, though.

Something else to ponder over, from the old FM:WC: saKhan Posavatz won a Trial of Possession against the Steel Vipers, and was allowed to accompany them into the Inner Sphere. He promised the typical (glory, treasures...the ELEVATION OF SCORPS TO ILCLAN :O), and then promptly vanished into thin air during the battle of Tukayyid (along with his Star of 'Mechs).

[rebs]

Wow it is really quiet out there.

 There is something that has been tickling my brain.

 WoR pg.117 second full paragraph.

 The scorpion enclave on Grants Station. After the society HPG virus had struck.

 In the spring of 3073 the vipers discovered that the scorpion enclave(s) were empty.

 Here is where it gets interesting.

 There were "some bodies" of deceased lower caste personnel, however it was a small fraction of the last known population.

 There were no warriors among the dead.

 The military equipment was gone.

 The mech (omni?) factories (#?) had been leveled or stripped.

 What happened ??????

 Anyones best guess as to which cluster/galaxy was garrisoning Grants Station in 3073?

 Doubtful it was bandit caste or burrocks, the scorpion warriors would have fought, leaving behind some evidence. Besides any equipment taken by burrocks or bandit caste would have been used.

I thought this was a chilling mystery as well.  By that point in reading the WoR, your imagination will fill in  all kind of different scenarios about what went on at Grant's Station.  It's got that strange sort of body snatchers feel to it.  Or perhaps some virus that wiped out the warriors first, one that was unusually strong even for a Society-made virus.  Then someone came in later to finish the job, after the virus was assured to work (and the dead had been cleaned up by the living).  So the only ones found were the lower castes, who were slaughtered where they stood more or less, and the tech was cleaned out before the sites were leveled.

Or something like that  ;D

[Kilraven]

 Let us hope there was a good supply of labor caste shovels about.  >:/!

 WoR pg. 66

[rebs]

With the Society behind it, could be all kinds of scenarios.

[St.George]

only 2 ideas pop into my head,,,,1 they abandon the enclave.2 their take by hostile forces and removed.

[Kilraven]

 After several days of pondering here is what I'm thinking.

 Following Mu's capture of the former Wolf enclave(s) on Grants Station in 3072,
they rotated to their next assignment.

 Two or more clusters from one of the garrison galaxies were then stationed on GS.
Which clusters is a good question.

 I'm of a mind that a very charismatic galaxy commander, either under orders by Khan Suvorov or not, was truly disgusted by the atmosphere engendered by the Reavings and left the homeworlds. 

 After the societies HPG virus, the garrison for some reason left on their own 'exodus', taking as many lower caste as would go. With the dissenters slain.

This brings up the question of jump & dropships available  at the time. The more they had the farther they could potentially go, it is also probable that former seekers were in the clusters.

 The question of society involvement is still open, the scorpions were one of the least attacked clans by society machinations.

 While we know where a large number of scorpion and horse society 'members' wound up, there is the option that there were scorpion and former wolf society personnel on grants station at the time of the HPG virus.

 IF they were of like mind with the commander they left with them (tech?), or if opposed, they were among the dead found by the vipers.

[Weirdo]

Question for the Scorpion fans in here(probably most of you, obviously...):

While trying to figure out what to do with an old Man O' War mini of mine, I became inspired to try and create a small force consisting of a Seeker and his retinue. Problem is, looking through the source material available, there's little hard info on what such a force would look like. For example, my initial thought was the Man O' War and a point or two of escorting Protomechs(likely mostly Tritons), but this hardly adds up to the 6,000 BV that is the usual game size for my local group's games. I've got no problem going in with a smaller force and just going after a more limited objective, but having the option to bulk the group up to a full force would be nice. Do Seekers ever travel in groups, or are they always on solo quests? Adding a second 'mech and retinue would go a long way to filling out my BV limits. Also, what would a battlefield retinue look like? Mostly Protos and maybe BA, or would you also expect to find other units in there, such as tanks or conventional troops? How big is too big for a retinue? Would a few points be allowed, or should it not exceed a point of supporting troops?

Thanks for any help you can give me. O0

[Decoy]

The gist I got was that they generally went alone, but for Civilian caste retinues.

However, the Clan way being what it is, I don't see any problems with a Seeker deciding his path is especially dangerous and trialling for a force to back him up.

[GreekFire]

I'll give your questions a shot!

To answer your first question, yes, Seekers do travel in groups. Yeomen (warrior-caste bondsmen taken from the Clan as charges) are quite a common sight, so I wouldn't be surprised to see 2+ subordinate 'Mechs under the command of the leading Warrior - especially if they plan on raiding another Clan for whatever they're looking for. It's one thing to have few charges, it's another to attack a Cluster by yourself. I think using a Binary/Nova as a cap sounds alright, with only the most important Seeker raids needing up to a Trinary. The Scorpions are known for small-unit operations, anything larger seems off.

As for the second question, it's going to depend a bit on where your unit is coming from. I've never seen anything saying that Seekers have to come from certain Galaxies, so you have the freedom to create a force using pretty much any type of unit you want. A good place to start, though, is with Chi Galaxy; it first appeared around the time ProtoMechs become available and was tailor-made for seekers. They have heavy ProtoMech and Aerospace elements to support the few 'Mechs that make up their core. If you want something to mess around with expectations, you can take a look at the Specialist Trinaries found in Beta Galaxy. I'm not sure if this is possible anymore, but they were based around using Kirghiz Cs to paradrop commando Elemental units to wreak havoc - these are the guys who studied the SLDF special forces and trained the 7th Kommando, so they're going to be as unorthodox and deadly as Clanners get.

I would not expect to see tanks, infantry, or even many BA units. Wasteful bonding of unnecessary charges is considered very dishonorable, and adding on personnel-heavy units such as infantry increases the number of support crew and supplies needed. Why take a bunch of infantry when a single person in a 'Mech can accomplish the same thing? I kinda of think of it like a pirate captain and his crew: fewer people, less gold I have to share.

[Weirdo]

Thanks, that's really helpful! Going by this, I'm probably going to add a Pouncer to my Man O' War(another mini I've otherwise had no use for in quite some time), and fill out the rest of the force with Protomechs. Mostly Tritons, though given the speeds of the Omnis, a few Rocs or Satyrs mixed in would probably be a good idea.

Chi Galaxy looks interesting, but I think I'm more likely to go with Beta instead. I like the paint scheme a lot better, and the Omnis fit such a front-line more. Maybe I'll do the protos(when I get them) in Chi colors, calling them a temporary assignment to accompany the Beta Galaxy Seekers. Certainly won't be the weirdest Clan force I've put together.

[Colt Ward]

Honestly, I would definately look at the Satyr 1 . . . at least a point.  After all, it gives you great scouting for the Seeker team.  While infantry is personnel intensive, you might go with a point or two of Elementals- perhaps some of the MWDA Clan BA minis, they can be explained as evaluating the suits for touman use.  You will need someone on foot to secure buildings and premises where the mechs cannot go.

[GreekFire]

Yeah if you're going with Beta you have access to all the newfangled tech coming out in that era, so using some of the new BA suits in addition/instead of Elementals would make complete sense.

It might be pushing it a bit, but I could see a Seeker being allowed to draw personnel from another Galaxy (as long as it didn't come into conflict with a larger-scale Scorpion operation, but the Scorps were never big on those before the WoR anyway). If you want to paint up the lead 'Mech as a Beta, with Protos from Chi and another 'Mech element from Delta, go for it.

[GreekFire]

Just whipped up a Seeker force using those 'Mechs and a few Protos as a thought exercise.

Man O' War E (4/5) - 2257 BV
Pouncer H (3/4) - 2462 BV
Delphyne 2 (4) - 316 BV
Delphyne 2 (4) - 316 BV
Orc (4) - 182 BV
Orc (4) - 182 BV
Triton (4) - 286 BV

Total BV: 6001

The idea is for the 'Mechs to rush in, using their targeting computers to blast open holes in sensitive areas before moving on to the next target. The Protos follow up and use their crit-seekers to finish the job. Thoughts?

[rebs]

Nice Seeker unit you got there, Greekfire.    O0

What if one of the the orc points was replaced by a standard Elemental point, perhaps?  Or one of the Orc points and one of the Delphyne II points for two points of Elementals.  Goliath Scorpions are big on Elementals, though they may not be as recognized as the Horses and Bears.  Just a suggestion.



If it's for Weirdo, they could be searching for a sophisticated device that is highly useful in calling down ortillery strikes, and is compatible with Erinyes weapon systems.  A relic of the Star League, of course...   ^-^

[GreekFire]

Nice Seeker unit you got there, Greekfire.    O0

What if one of the the orc points was replaced by a standard Elemental point, perhaps?  Or one of the Orc points and one of the Delphyne II points for two points of Elementals.  Goliath Scorpions are big on Elementals, though they may not be as recognized as the Horses and Bears.  Just a suggestion.

I'm going to admit something as a Clanner, something that I'm very ashamed to say...I'm not a fan of battle armor. I find them too slow and easy to outmaneuver. I like playing very mobile forces, and I don't know how to integrate BA into this doctrine.

'Nother thing to remember, though, is that Protos always have to be fielded in points of 5. Otherwise I'd drop one of the lower-BV Protos and upgrade the rest.

[Kilraven]

 Nova binaries are the best way to go when running a seeker unit.

 I make the unit as complete as possible, including one or two omnis, a few mechs, two points of armor, some protos and fill out the balance with elementals.

 While this may seem like alot, remember that all seekers are volunteers that must pass a trial before being included in Chi galaxy.

 What you want ideally is a unit that while small, is still versatile enough to accomplish a wide variety of missions without outside support. (When you are 20 jumps from the nearest clan force there is no support).

 The only units I do not place in the unit are ASF's, I 'borrow' the fighters from the jump/ dropship crew.

 A good number of elementals really comes in handy outside of combat, the more 'boots on the ground' you have the better your odds of finding what you are looking for.

 As a side note, we use a house rule for sensors. 1 ton for mechs and omnis and two tons for vehicles. The idea is super sensitive sensors (use your imagination) that tie directly into the mechs/ vehicles sensor array. They are useless once combat begins, too sensitive and overloaded by the discharge of energy weapons.

   

[rebs]

I'm going to admit something as a Clanner, something that I'm very ashamed to say...I'm not a fan of battle armor. I find them too slow and easy to outmaneuver. I like playing very mobile forces, and I don't know how to integrate BA into this doctrine.

'Nother thing to remember, though, is that Protos always have to be fielded in points of 5. Otherwise I'd drop one of the lower-BV Protos and upgrade the rest.

Nova binaries are the best way to go when running a seeker unit.

 I make the unit as complete as possible, including one or two omnis, a few mechs, two points of armor, some protos and fill out the balance with elementals.

 While this may seem like alot, remember that all seekers are volunteers that must pass a trial before being included in Chi galaxy.

 What you want ideally is a unit that while small, is still versatile enough to accomplish a wide variety of missions without outside support. (When you are 20 jumps from the nearest clan force there is no support).

 The only units I do not place in the unit are ASF's, I 'borrow' the fighters from the jump/ dropship crew.

 A good number of elementals really comes in handy outside of combat, the more 'boots on the ground' you have the better your odds of finding what you are looking for.

 As a side note, we use a house rule for sensors. 1 ton for mechs and omnis and two tons for vehicles. The idea is super sensitive sensors (use your imagination) that tie directly into the mechs/ vehicles sensor array. They are useless once combat begins, too sensitive and overloaded by the discharge of energy weapons.

   

True, got to pair each point with a 'Mech for transportation assets.

But, to each his own.  Elementals are certainly not required to get a game on.

[Colt Ward]

GreekFire, Elementals . . . yeah, they are slower but there is a reason they are set up in cavalry novas and supernovas in the Wolves.  But the speed factor is why I was recommending ACBA too, since it has 4 jump.

I am unsure if you are saying they are not for you or if you feel unsure using them and thus do not use battle armor.  I would not mind some 'training' sessions with Clan forces if you wish, I use BA quite a bit- both Clan and IS.  The biggest thing about using battle armor is you have to use enough (a saturation point if you will), have to use them in terrain that gives cover, and you have to present multiple threats.  I admit, I use double blind, so I also tend to have the toads popping up when they are not expected.

As far as the force you posted . . . I still think a Satyr for LAP makes sense, and you can always say you brought 4 protos from the point since one was bid away- just as weapons can get bid away.