Arrow IV flight times

[DarkJaguar]

What is the flight time of an arrow IV (not bomb, the actual ART-AIS or ART-AC special) when fired from the inner, middle or outer rings?

[nckestrel]

What is the flight time of an arrow IV (not bomb, the actual ART-AIS or ART-AC special) when fired from the inner, middle or outer rings?

From the AS errata. "If the attacking unit is on the abstract aerospace Radar Map, it may make the airborne artillery attack from the
Inner Ring. This attack will have a flight time of 1 turn"

You can't make an arrow iv attack from the middle or outer rings.

[DarkJaguar]

Thanks, we need a reprint with all the errata in it soon, it's getting hard to search through 4 sources for info

[DarkJaguar]

One more question on arrow IV ranges.  How would an Arrow IV fired from say zone 12 of the outer ring deal with another aerospace unit in zone twelve, what about the adjacent zones?

[Scotty]

You can't make an arrow iv attack from the middle or outer rings.

[DarkJaguar]

Yes, I understand that, but I believe the intent of that is 'against ground targets'.  Or is something that only has arrow IV completely defenseless in the outer and middle rings and unable to use the weapon to fight it's opponent?

[nckestrel]

Yes, I understand that, but I believe the intent of that is 'against ground targets'.  Or is something that only has arrow IV completely defenseless in the outer and middle rings and unable to use the weapon to fight it's opponent?

No, that's not the intent, and yes, the arrow iv can't be used in the middle and outer rings.  It's (by default) a horrible air-to-air weapon, and only with special munitions does it overcome that.  But there is no arrow iv munition for air-to-air (that's not an alternate bomb munition instead).  I'd house rule you can fire an air-to-air arrow iv alternate bomb munition from an aerospace mounted ART-AIS or ART-AC, but the rulebook doesn't actually give that option.  (And then the air-to-air missile works more like a regular weapon attack, being limited to medium range and therefore in the same zone).

[Scotty]

Air to Air Arrow IV are used as a normal attack against other fighters.  Including engagement rolls and everything else that goes with it.

Regular Arrow IV attacks cannot be made from the Middle or Outer rings.  What your target is supposed to be is irrelevant.

This is an improvement over the original rules, where the ART special wasn't granted to aerospace units at all for any reason.

[DarkJaguar]

No, that's not the intent, and yes, the arrow iv can't be used in the middle and outer rings.  It's (by default) a horrible air-to-air weapon, and only with special munitions does it overcome that.  But there is no arrow iv munition for air-to-air (that's not an alternate bomb munition instead).  I'd house rule you can fire an air-to-air arrow iv alternate bomb munition from an aerospace mounted ART-AIS or ART-AC, but the rulebook doesn't actually give that option.  (And then the air-to-air missile works more like a regular weapon attack, being limited to medium range and therefore in the same zone).

Air Defense Arrow IV missiles are an alternative munition that may be used by any unit with ART-AIS or ART-AC.  Is that not the case?

[nckestrel]

Air Defense Arrow IV missiles are an alternative munition that may be used by any unit with ART-AIS or ART-AC.  Is that not the case?

True, but Air defense specifies it can only target aero in the central and inner? So it wouldn’t help you in the outer ring.

[DarkJaguar]

True, but Air defense specifies it can only target aero in the central and inner? So it wouldn’t help you in the outer ring.

Correct.  It wouldn't help in the middle or outer.  May I suggest that artillery ranges be errated to 'same zone/adjacent zone' for the purposes of aerospace?

[Weirdo]

Air Defense Arrows are a Ground-to-Air munition. You can't be on the ground if you're in the Middle or Outer Rings, therefore it is impossible to fire an ADA from those locations.

[DarkJaguar]

Air Defense Arrows are a Ground-to-Air munition. You can't be on the ground if you're in the Middle or Outer Rings, therefore it is impossible to fire an ADA from those locations.

I apologize but I do not see where it says that.  Just that it treats it -as- a ground to air attack for modifiers. Could you point out what I'm missing please?

[Weirdo]

Alpha Strike, page 76. The entire description focuses solely on the ADA's use in ground-to-air attacks, and explicitly says that you cannot target ground units or aeros outside the Inner Ring. Heck the rules flat out say

...air-defense Arrows are resolved as standard ground-to-air attacks...

I can't see any way that could possibly allow for an air-to-air shot.

[Xochi]

Alpha Strike, page 76. The entire description focuses solely on the ADA's use in ground-to-air attacks, and explicitly says that you cannot target ground units or aeros outside the Inner Ring. Heck the rules flat out say
I can't see any way that could possibly allow for an air-to-air shot.

You haven't met DJ and his creative ways at interpreting rule sets. You should come play a game with us. It's a great way to study to be a lawyer.

[Weirdo]

It should be noted that Battletech rulebooks by necessity usually only list what you can do with a given unit or piece of equipment. If they tried to list everything you were NOT allowed to do, they would be infinitely long. Don't assume an action is allowed, just because the rules don't explicitly prohibit it.

[Bosefius]

This topic is locked. The original question was asked and answered. If you want to discuss house rules and rules lawyering take it to the Fan Designs and Rules section.