Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug  (Read 20190 times)

GreekFire

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'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« on: 12 February 2016, 19:57:15 »
Note: this write-up was entirely done by marauder648. He is, unfortunately, unavailable to post this which is why I'm doing it instead. Enjoy!

- - -

The THG series of Mechs plodded off the production lines of Maltex Corporation’s factories on Errai in 2572 and was initially billed and designed as a successor or replacement for the very popular Warhammer. It was designed to correct that machine's main flaws, those being weak armour and a simply inadequate cooling system. When the Warhammer was first introduced it was billed as an assault 'Mech, but at 80 tonnes the Thug is a true assault. It corrected the flaws of the popular and common Warhammer by looking at things differently and by using new technology.

Built around an endo-steel skeleton the Thug saved weight whilst retaining a 320-rated standard engine allowing the machine to hit the same speeds of the Warhammer and move at the speed of most heavy Mech’s of the time at 64kph flat out (4/6 in game terms). Fifteen and a half tonnes of standard plate protection also sweep the Warhammer’s fragility under the carpet whilst eighteen double heatsinks cool the Mech, if anything too much, as the THG-1 is actually oversinked. As mentioned the Thug has 15.5 tonnes of standard armour and it is laid out like this:

9/25/34/25 (9/16/9 for rear protection) across the head and chest.
25/25/34/34 for the arms and legs

The other big change was with the Thug’s armament. Whilst it retained the paired PPC’s these were of a new model that didn’t require the huge long focusing and magnet lined barrels of the Warhammer. Indeed, the new Tiegart PPC’s were shorter by at least half and allowed the Thug to be fitted with hand actuators. Also unlike the Warhammer the Thug lacks the broad range of secondary weapons and there’s no sign of any lasers or machine guns; instead it settles on a pair of SRM-6’s, each launcher drawing from a tonne of CASE protected ammo. Even when slapping the alpha button and sprinting the Thug remains ice cold.

The rugged and simple 'Mech was produced in large numbers, serving with line and Royal Regiments of the SLDF. Its simple systems and design also helped keep the machine alive and active despite the huge losses of technology caused by the Succession Wars. The Thug though did decline in numbers until the largest remaining stockpiles of them were held by Comstar on Terra. When ComGuard was formed the Thug marched out to fill the ranks once more whilst some were also shipped quite by "accident" to the DCMS where they proved the ‘inspiration’ (read carbon copy clone with shiny bodywork) of the Hatamoto-Chi.

- - -

Variants

THG-11E – The basic SLDF design, the 11E as mentioned was a simple, rugged design with a thick hide, good speed for its size and firepower comparable to most other Mech’s of its generation - with the added bonus of not having ANY heat woes. A pair of PPC’s and SRM-6’s mounted in the left and right arms and torsos respectively form the 11E’s armament and 18 double heatsinks keep it cool no matter what. The Thug can shrug off an engine hit and still keep firing a full alpha! It's not really that punchy but for its era and tech, it's far from bad and because the damn thing simply won’t overheat it's very forgiving to use.

THG-11Eb – The Royal Thug (an odd term but considering the various Royalties throughout history…accurate), the 11Eb is a very simple upgrade where both standard PPC’s are replaced with ER PPC’s at the cost of two heatsinks, taking the Eb down to 16. Otherwise identical to the 11E in every aspect I would assume that many of the surviving Comstar Thugs were a mix of 11E’s and a more limited number of Eb’s. It’s an uninspiring but sensible upgrade, I would expect the SRM-6’s to have been replaced with a quartet of Streak-2’s but the ER PPCs are nice and again, no heat issues at all let you tape the fire button down for the energy cannons and blaze away with man-made lighting all day long. This variant would be the one taken into exile by Kerensky's forces, only to eventually serve the Clans.

THG-10E – This downgraded Thug was produced in small numbers by Earthwerks Inc after Maltek’s facilities had buckets of instant sunshine dropped on them. The 10E is an even more basic version of a fairly basic 'Mech. Built on a standard skeleton and lacking CASE, the 10E retained its standard PPC’s although shortages of the Tiegart saw many Thug’s sporting the long barrelled Donal PPC’s seen on Warhammers.
Due to weight limitations the SRM-6’s were removed and replaced with a pair of SRM-4’s sharing a tonne of ammo between them, still enough for most battles. Finally a tonne of armour was shaved off giving the 'Mech 14.5 tonnes of standard plate protection. The biggest downgrade came with the cooling system where its double heatsinks were turned into 19 standard ones. This still made the 10E run cooler than the Warhammer (which admittedly isn’t hard, a fair few Neutron Stars run cooler..) but it still means a pilot must keep a wayward eye on the heat dial. The reduced armour had a layout like this:

9/24/33/24 (8/10/8) across the head and chest
25/25/33/33 for arms and legs.

THG-12E – Introduced in 3067 by Comstar and later used by the World of Blake, the 12E is probably based on 11Eb’s the order had but altered to fit newly developed technology. Retaining the ER PPCs and SRM-6s of the 11Eb the 12E removes one tonne of ammo and its associated CASE as well as a double heatsink. This frees up the weight to fit a C3i computer which makes the 12E a potent fire support machine. Thanks to its robust build it can act as a spotter for other C3i fitted machines; it can either take a pounding whilst getting in close to spot for its Lance or hang back to rain lighting down on a foe at long range.

THG-12K – Seemingly based on salvaged 12E’s, the 12K is a straight up tech swap that replaces the C3i of the 12K with a C3 slave and Guardian ECM. It can engage at long range whilst providing EW support for friendly machines, as it still has the ER PPC’s and SRM-6’s of the 12E making it a formidable combatant. This is a nasty variant, the ECM lets it wreak havoc and if it's going against Blakists then it can provide targeting data whilst messing with their C3i system.

THG-13K – The odd one out, the 13K sacrifices the Thug’s fabled endurance and near zombieness for raw firepower. The biggest change is replacing the reliable 320 standard engine with a lighter but bulkier XL engine of the same rating. The SRM-6’s are removed and even half a tonne of armour is stripped out whilst a double heatsink is removed giving the 'Mech 17 in total.

Now comes the guns. Three massive Heavy PPC’s give the 13K a brutal punch, albeit at a ferocious heat cost that rapidly overwhelms those 17 double heatsinks. To keep fast movers or harassers out from under the minimum range of the three big guns a pair of Medium pulse lasers are fitted and finally C3i is used to let the 13K share targeting data with lance mates. Three H-PPC’s is a meaty punch and the 13K punches well above its weight but at the cost of a horrific heat penalty. A full salvo of all three PPC’s will put you at 45 heat before moving and you vent 34 of that, so you REALLY have to think if you want to slap the big red Feurer frei button. But if you do, and you connect with all three Peeper’s, they WILL know it.

THG-11EXC Thug "Jose" – The EXC was a one-off customised Thug variant built for the Mercenary Jose Magellan - a murderous thug who rose high in the eyes of Stefan Amaris’ forces during the Amaris Civil War. Because of his success and brutality (he was a lover of inferno missiles) Jose’s Thug was rebuilt and turned into a murderously effective ambush predator. Rebuilt with an XL engine, the EXC also radically altered the Thug’s weapons load out. The ER PPC’s were removed and replaced with ER Large Lasers, whilst the weight saved was poured into five SRM-6 launchers. This gave it a brutal barrage capacity and made it the death of tanks and infantry if loaded with Jose’s preferred inferno rounds. Three tonnes of ammo also let him choose his ammo rounds although the five launchers would go through that in nine salvo’s if at full roar.

The roomy cockpit was also expanded and a command console fitted to allow a Rim Worlds Military officer to help plan ambushes and attacks, and for added mobility a quartet of Jump jets were also fitted. Still, something had to be sacrificed, so the ECX had 14 double heatsinks and 14.5 tonnes of armour. But the most advanced piece of technology was a salvaged Null Signature System from a downed Executioner. Although the advanced sensor defeating system was unreliable due to it being from a wreck it was lethally effective in Jose Magellan’s hands who preferred to strike from ambush; it also made the Thug near impossible to target at long range.

The unique 11EXC fell during the battle for New Earth, where Jose apparently grew frustrated with his panicking RWM passenger as the SLDF gained more ground. Fed up with his passenger, Jose shot him. When the EXC was finally disabled and Jose was captured alive, the enhanced Thug was turned into scrap metal and melted down. Jose Magellan was executed for his many crimes and since then no one has tried to replicate this machine.

- - -

Thoughts

To me the Thug is the Tuba of an orchestra. It's not really a flashy instrument, it toots along in the background but is reliable and dependable. Something that you know is nice to have there and is often needed. The Thug is not a flashy machine (unless you’re a 13K and you slap the alpha strike button and fire EVERYTHING, then you’ll be pumping out enough thermal radiation to be visible from orbit), but it's dependable and for the most part is DARN hard to put down.

It’s a simple machine to play for the most part: hang back, rain energy bolts on people, fill faces with a swarm of SRM’s if they dare get close. This holds true for three-fourths of the variants with only the 13K and the Jose breaking tradition. Even then, the Jose is just a different flavour of long range fire and SRM clouds whilst the 13K remains the odd one out of the family. It’s the one that had a row with its Dad the 11E and then REALLY hit the gym to work out.

The Jose is the one that sticks out the most, not only because of its history but also the way it was built for its role as an ambush predator. The Null Signature System is a game changer on any 'Mech, and with a pilot like Jose at the helm he knew how to use the NSS and his 'Mech with murderous efficiency. Really you can’t go wrong with the Thug in any variant; you get a lot out of it, and all but two are damn tough to kill. Standard engines, lots of padding with heatsinks and well hidden ammo bins make Thugs a real pain. If you want to kill one you’re going to have to rip it to bits and either leg the damn thing or core its chest. This makes them a solid anchor for a heavy or assault Lance or an absolute pain in the exhaust to kill.

Whilst the Thug may seem quite urbane and dull compared to its kissing cousin the Charger, who burst onto the scene with all the nervous energy of a hyperactive 5 year old with ADD who’s just ate 12lb of popping candy, or its DCMS cousin who’s going through its Anime Pha…ITS NOT A PHASE DAD! THIS IS MY LIFE NOW!…Ahem…*whispers* it’s a phase.. The Thug gives solid, if unimaginative service - unless you break out the 13K or the Jose.

If there was a piece of music that exemplified the Thug, it’s this.

https://chrismoyles.net/soundvault/soundvault.php?fileid=1062

- - -

She’s not a flashy machine, but the Thug will get you home after a rough night out, it won’t leave you hanging without a taxi in the rain. It’s a solid, dependable friend.

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #1 on: 12 February 2016, 20:11:11 »
Minor correction: the Royal Thug has the same 18 DHS as the standard Thug.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #2 on: 12 February 2016, 20:32:28 »
The Thug's a thug.
Never liked it, largely due to its looks. One ugly 'Mech. Very fitting looks but... ugh.
It is good, i would never dispute that. But i'll take a Warhammer or a Marauder rather than this, the former offers slightly more versatility (even if it comes with an MG ammo self-destruct system), the latter is just badass.
The Thug's variants are pretty faithful to the original though, unlike some Whammy and Mad variants that change things a bit too much for my tastes. But then it is hard to improve near-perfection. (EDIT OTOH, they're barely variants, 13K aside.)

(I find it curious the Clans never made a Thug IIC or based any design on it. (Some Omnis certainly can emulate it though i don't actually recall any canon config doing that.) But then there are many designs that never got IIC versions... at least as far as we know. Perhaps there will be some in the TRO: Golden Century.)
« Last Edit: 12 February 2016, 20:36:24 by Empyrus »

Maelwys

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #3 on: 12 February 2016, 20:53:35 »
There's also the "Reich" which comes from FM: Mercs Supplemental 2, which packs Clantech ERPPCs and Streak SRM6s. The weight savings from the ERPPCs and dropping 2 DHS lets it pack 4 jump jets.

Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #4 on: 12 February 2016, 21:03:56 »
The Reich is pretty terrifying. Dual Clan ER PPCs and dual Clan Streak-6s. And jump jets. Runs a bit hot but... man, it is basically Thug IIC.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #5 on: 12 February 2016, 21:55:26 »
Both the Warhammer IIC and Kingfisher actually make good Thug IIC equivalents.
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Grey

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #6 on: 13 February 2016, 04:40:42 »
Good article that sums up the Thug: brutal, efficient, ignored and unloved, all because there's nothing truly distinctive about it.

I don't like fielding it if I have a choice, but when I do it's never let me down.

Getz

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #7 on: 13 February 2016, 06:44:32 »
I love me some Thug action - but as a Star League design that's so brutally efficient I tend not to use it unless I'm running a Comstar or WoB force.  However, I recently noticed it's in the FRR RAT, so I'm thinking my mini might get a repaint in 3rd Hussars colours and run it alongside my Zeus'

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Maelwys

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #8 on: 13 February 2016, 07:33:18 »
And since someone's probably going to ask..

As of Objectives FWL, the lines on Keystone don't have a Thug listed (just the BattleMaster, Jackal, Griffin and Thunderbolt), though they could put it back into production.

The other factory, the Maltex Corporation is on Errai in the Republic, so details on the factory conditions can't be easily checked, IIRC, and who knows what the Republic may have done.

VanVelding

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #9 on: 13 February 2016, 07:50:08 »
The Thug is like a nice rock. Like one that's shaped so you can get a good grip on it while bashing a guy's head in and still throw it accurately at a guy's head. Whatever you gotta do. There're almost no working parts to break down and foul up the whole thing.

Just a really, really good rock.
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Kidd

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #10 on: 13 February 2016, 08:43:01 »
Not really enough character for me to field, so I prefer the Warhammer or Battlemaster. I prefer having a pair of medium lasers somewhere over more SRM tubes. Still, taste aside the Thug is a murderously efficient machine.

Maelwys

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #11 on: 13 February 2016, 08:52:22 »
Amusingly, the Jose variant, the one with the most ammo, drops the CASE to fit everything else in. Tonnage wise, not critwise.

It also looks like a walking Ironsides :)

Maingunnery

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #12 on: 13 February 2016, 11:38:20 »


I remember the Thug best from MW2: Mercenaries, even there it was a great Mech (not every Mech converts well to PC). And while some find it ugly, I find it to be handsome in a brutal way.
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GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #13 on: 13 February 2016, 14:34:14 »
And since someone's probably going to ask..

As of Objectives FWL, the lines on Keystone don't have a Thug listed (just the BattleMaster, Jackal, Griffin and Thunderbolt), though they could put it back into production.

IMO they do put it back into production, if only because the MUL lists the -11Eb as being available to the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth come the Early Republic Era.

Of course, the Wolves gain control of that planet later on, but whatever. The Thug is solid but isn't flashy or particularly memorable for me, so I don't find myself bemoaning the loss of its line all that much.
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Colt Ward

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #14 on: 13 February 2016, 16:40:07 »
I always wanted to see a LFE version, which would be a slight compromise on the survivability but bring the greater firepower needed.  Also throw in MML racks for the adaptability . . . but we never got one.

My mercs ended up with one in the early 3060s in the Chaos March, I want to say Blakist backed mercs or revolutionaries I do not quite remember.  Like the Zeus it moves at the point of the lance due to the survivability, reach of the main guns and ability to pack infernoes to respond to armor or infantry.  Its rugged nature lets it trip any ambushes (double blind play) and fight on though I think I lost an arm once or twice so far.
« Last Edit: 13 February 2016, 16:44:41 by Colt Ward »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #15 on: 13 February 2016, 17:50:03 »
The Thug is hands-down my favorite 'Mech of all time. It has consistently been the most dependable 'Mech I've ever encountered in almost twenty years of playing Battletech. The THG-12E in particular has long formed the spine of my Blakist formations over the years, and I have many fond memories of multiple Thugs cutting my foes to pieces with grim efficiency.

Also, this is the only appropriate theme music for the Thug.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #16 on: 13 February 2016, 21:22:29 »
The Thug does close to everything I could ask for in the IS machine with few draw backs. No jump jets but it already a assault that can keep pace with most heavies. No Anti Infantry weapons but you could always load the SRM with some infernos for some war crime worthy fun.

I used that mech almost exclusively in MW2: Mercs and MW4: Mercs free, god help you all when it pops up in MWO  >:D   
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #17 on: 14 February 2016, 20:04:31 »
Probably my favorite Star League 'Mech due to its mix of toughness, firepower, resilience and economy.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #18 on: 29 February 2016, 00:44:32 »
In Alpha Strike, the Thug is... I hesitate to use the world 'loser' because that implies it lost something, but its variations aren't very varied. The -11 Royal and standard are identical statlines, and the -10E only loses 1 S/M to OV1, not that much of a difference if there's water on the table. The 12K has something to offer a C3 company looking for a tough ECM unit to keep the network while closing with a reasonable amount of damage, but the -13K is just... mediocre.

In other words, its AS stats suit its reputation and role. It has a decent poke out to Long range, deals more damage close in, and is though enough to take the damage coming back its way.

garhkal

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #19 on: 29 February 2016, 15:35:56 »
Good article that sums up the Thug: brutal, efficient, ignored and unloved, all because there's nothing truly distinctive about it.

I don't like fielding it if I have a choice, but when I do it's never let me down.

Me neither.  In fact, i don't remember a single one of them that i have fielded in a pick up game, dying.

I always wanted to see a LFE version, which would be a slight compromise on the survivability but bring the greater firepower needed.  Also throw in MML racks for the adaptability . . . but we never got one.

IMO if you did, you would either have to drop some double heats or endo, to make up since there is no free space..

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #20 on: 29 February 2016, 18:21:00 »
IMO if you did, you would either have to drop some double heats or endo, to make up since there is no free space..

Which could be done with the 10E as the base.

garhkal

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #21 on: 01 March 2016, 13:52:04 »
i'm surprised no one has made a variant with streak 4 srms vice the srm sixes...
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #22 on: 06 March 2016, 13:11:32 »
The Reich variant is unfair
4/6/4
Clan weapons
And it's a Thug

I've always thought of the Gargoyle as the Thug IIC.  But I've also always presumed the Gargoyle was intended to have ERPPCs and Streaks in it prime layout.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #23 on: 05 February 2020, 04:23:23 »
Inside the Thug's Hatch with the Chieftain

Open with the Chieftain standing between the legs of a 'Mech.

"Today we're going to be having a look at one of the stalwarts of the SLDF's Dragoon and Heavy-Assault regiments."

Camera pans back and up, revealing the 'Mech in all it's glory.

"This is the Thug, to be precise it's a THG-11E which was the most common variant used by the SLDF. This particular 'Mech is in the regimental museum of the Kestrel Crucis March Militia, which is a great place to visit if you get the chance to look at it. Lots of First Succession War history is preserved here, you've got to remember that back in the 2790s right here was the frontlines between the Draconis Combine and the Federated Suns, which gives you an idea of how bad things were for House Davion at the time."

"Going back to the Thug, this one was captured by the AFFS in a DCMS repair bay during a counter-attack in late 2796. The owner, who some of you may have heard of, had been called away to a little place called Kentares IV due to a death in the family. The Kestrel CMM consider this to be the prize of their collection and there have been fourteen attempts over the years to steal it back for House Kurita, thus the armed guards."

Pan briefly to four fully armed AFFS infantry standing at attention around the 'Mech, which is standing in the middle of a repurposed hanger with various other exhibits visible in the background.

"Anyway it's not the 'Mechs' fault who piloted it and this one never went anywhere near Kentares." The Chieftain walks around the large feet. "I believe the reactor had been pulled when it was captured and never got put back, but otherwise it's in pretty good condition. There was actually some talk about putting a new engine in it at one point, but obviously someone thought better of that."

"The Thug was developed by the Maltex Corporation back in the 2560s and 2570s when a little thing called the Star League was still being put together. The Hegemony Armed Forces were looking at folding into the new Star League Defense Forces and handing some of their older equipment down to planetary militias, including much of their fleet of Warhammer heavy 'Mechs. This had been a standby of their heavy regiments for about fifty years, and it had handily countered House Davion's Hammerhands and Battleax heavies, but it was beginning to look a bit long in the tooth." Chieftain pauses. "Which is a bit ironic now, but they looked at things a little differently back then."

"With a lot of components being standardised at the time, to keep the SLDF's logistics from being more of an absolute nightmare than they were inevitably going to be, it really looked like a good time to take a fresh look at the Warhammer's role and see what else could be offered for the heavy-trooper role. They'd had plenty of time to see what worked and what didn't, after all."

Pan up to the Thug again.

"The most obvious thing to retain was the Particle Projection Cannon - PPCs, as most abbreviate that. Twin PPCs were a pretty ambitious undertaking, they build up a lot of heat,and the Battleax and Warhammer had been about the first 'Mechs to seriously try to operate with a pair of them and it was clearly a strain for both of them. But the pay off was that frequently they would wreck anything they hit. You have to remember, standard plating wasn't very standard at the time - a lot of second-tier units still used primitive or industrial plating and a PPC had a decent chance of not just ablating away more than half a ton of the stuff, they also had a nasty habit of causing the interior of the protection to spall - which was really good at shredding any systems - or crew - behind the plating."

"Throw in the fact that the secondary effects could impair electronics if your shielding wasn't right on point and taking even a single PPC hit tended to cause a significant emotional event for the people on the receiving end. And these bad boys were running around with two of them?" Chieftain winces. "Anyway, the issue was the amount of heat being built up. Maltex had access to the new endo-steel materials that let them lighten the frame and more importantly, to include next-generation heatsinks - what we call freezers. They fitted the Thug with more or less the same tonnage of cooling jackets, heat exchangers and so forth as the Warhammer, with the result that firing both PPCs barely spikes the temperature at all."

"Maltex didn't go for the same Donal PPCs that had been used on the Warhammer, instead they opted for these Tiegarts. Common 'Mechwarrior wisdom was that Donals do a little more damage, while Tiegarts are a fraction more accurate, so the decision makes sense. The Warhammer couldn't maintain a sustained barrage from both PPCs, so pilots wanted every hit to count, while the Thug could pretty much hold down both triggers with bricks and step away for a mug of coffee so it was more useful to make sure those shots hit. Ironically, of course, Tiegart was a casualty of the Succession Wars so a lot of later Thug's use Donals anyway."

"Now if you look down at the forearms, you can see another improvements the Thug offered over its predecessor: it's got hands. I really can't overstate how useful this made them. You could use them to help lift and carry supplies, drag damaged 'Mechs off the field, pick up salvage or an ejected pilot - even punch someone with a greatly reduced risk of damaging your PPCs. You can imagine how frustrating it is to find yourself having to get out and rig some sort of strapping so a Warhammer or Marauder can be useful for those circumstances, while in a Thug the mechwarrior could just reach out and do it."

"Moving in towards the centre of the 'Mech, you can see the secondary weapons. This is the same place the Warhammer mounted its distinctive cluster of lasers and machine guns, but the Thug sweeps those away and doubles up on the Short-Range Missiles that were always something of an afterthought on the Warhammer. We can only see one of them here, up on the right, because the cover is closed on the left one. Those panels just slide back to reveal a second launcher... well, that's the theory. In practise they had a nasty habit of getting jammed open, leaving the launcher uncovered, or closed - so you couldn't use it - or even half-way, which was the worst of both worlds."

"This is only the second biggest complaint about the secondary weapons though. The first is that without the machine guns, there's no dedicated anti-infantry capability. Maltex argued - and the SLDF agreed actually - that this could be left to supporting infantry units and dedicated anti-infantry 'Mechs. As people later found out, the real world isn't always that convenient. The common fix was to replace one of the two bins of SRMs with fragmentation missiles, which were certainly effective in an anti-personnel role, but they're not all that much use against armoured opponents, At least you could keep the other bin for conventional missiles."

"The other major change from the Warhammer is that the Thug is ten tons heavier. That's not always the best choice, because it means you need a stronger internal structure, a bigger engine, and in this case a more than thirty percent increase in the size of the gyro in order to maintain performance - and the Warhammer was pretty average in that respect as it was. But in this case I think Maltex made the right call because they had endo-steel structure which offset most of that extra weight anyway and it let them pack in another five and a half tons of Mitchell armour plating and fit both ammo bins with cellular ammo storage."

"Now as a mechwarrior, I'm always in favour of the last part, because having your 'Mech explode is always a bit traumatic. But the former was a huge improvement over the Warhammer. Back when that was brought in, around the start of the twenty-sixth century, ten tons of standard armour was considered perfectly acceptable but times had changed and heavier protection now seemed like a good idea. The Thug actually carries slightly more armour plating than the famously sturdy Awesome that was also being developed at the same time."

"Right, that's enough about the outsides, let's see what it looks like inside."

The Chieftain starts climbing a ladder hung down from the cockpit. "It certainly makes it easier when..." Pauses for breath. "When these are in 'Mech bays with gantries. I don't really miss this part of active service." Pauses again. "With the cockpit down between the shoulders, it's not really higher than a Warhammer's cockpit even if the 'Mech itself is a bit taller."

"Okay then." He lowers himself down the cockpit. "Normal layout here. Command seat at the front and," he cranes around, "just enough room for a passenger behind the seat if they're not too large. Just pray that you don't have to pull the ejection lever while there's someone back there."

"Two control sticks where you'd expect them and the pedals work the same way pretty much every 'Mech since the Mackie has. No jump jet controls, since no one was trying to make one hop around like a Victor. Which I imagine a lot of people are grateful, not least the designers because that would mean shellhorning in around... well, the HildCo Model 12s on a Victor weigh in at about three and half thousand kilograms if I recall correctly." (Camera blips slightly.) "Four thousand and change kilograms, I should say. Well, close enough for government work if you're a Capellan."

"There's just enough power here to bring up the systems, that's a line from the museum because, as I said, the reactor's not in this thing any more." The Chieftain hits the reactor power switch and several side-displays light up. "In fact, here on the damage display you can see it's telling us this right here. Auxiliary power only. Here on the left is the communications, a Colmax 90, which got the job done. And on the right, behind this panel should be a..." Pauses, looks at the empty space. "On loan to NAIS. Well, hopefully they mean New Avalon not Noius Archipelagus. Anyway, the TharHes Area-5 targeting computer, which got a lot of credit for the Thug's accuracy with the PPCs. As I mentioned earlier, it later turned out to mostly be the Tiegart's better focusing, but that doesn't make the Area-5 bad and who knows."

"One last thing." He indicates the damage display. "Down here are the capacitors feeding electricity from the reactors to the PPCs. These are the same basic units found on contemporary Warhammers and unfortunately completely slagged here. Which is a shame, because Star Corps lost the ability to make those years ago and we've since standardised on the competitor, as used on the MAD-1R Marauder - the later twin PPC heavy 'Mech of the Star League Defense Forces, and can't quite handle the same load. If anyone does have a mint-condition set of original capacitors, you're sitting on something that would probably net you more than the cost of the attached 'Mech these days. Good luck."

"So, that's the Thug. I'd love to take one out on a gunnery course, but as mentioned this one has no reactor and Maltex's Errai factory hasn't made any since the factory was destroyed in 2835, although not before providing a replacement to same Mr. Jinjiro we mentioned earlier. Earthwerks had licensed the design, since Maltex wasn't quite prepared for the popularity of the Thug and they build about a dozen THG-10E models - without the advanced endo-steel and cooling systems, unfortunately - on Keystone but unless I can scrape together jumpship fare to get across to the Free Worlds League, this is probably the closest I'll get. Which is a shame."

"So that's it from the tour of the Thug. Hope you found it interesting."
"It's national writing month, not national writing week and a half you jerk" - Consequences, 9th November 2018

drakensis

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #24 on: 05 February 2020, 15:31:07 »
Chieftain's Questions and Answers

Reading from a foldeded piece of paper: "Dear Chieftain, given the Thug is such a huge improvement over the Warhammer, why did it drop out of use while the Warhammer's still very common."

"Good question. I assume that it's the result of my recent visit to Kestrel. For those who missed it, there should be a link to that video over here..." Chieftain points to where, sure enough, an inset thumbnail link appears briefly; and then drops his hand and tucks the paper away under a model Mk VIII Merkava tank sitting on the desk.

"So, assuming everyone's caught up, the Thug was developed in the 2560s - it actually entered production in 2572 - to replace the Warhammer, which had been doing fairly well for itself over the previous sixty years. The Warhammer I'm referring to here is the WHM-5R, which differed from the 6R only in some fairly minor details, predominantly the standardisation of components that the SLDF was insisting on at the time. The expectation was that the Warhammers would drop into the Hegemony's militia units, with the Royal Command transitioning to the Thug more or less immediately, and the rest of the SLDF to follow as things played out."

"The first Thugs were assigned out to the SLDF after the United Triumph exercises in late 2572 - the exercises, were a bit of a debacle for the SLDF tactically but it did give them a pretty good idea of the logistical challenges they were about to face. It also saw a lot of mercenaries hired to fill in for regiments taking part in the exercises, quite of a lot of whom were paid in equipment such as Warhammers being retired from active service, and presumably propping up the market for spare parts from Star Corps."

"The same year, the Star League deployed the SLDF and DCMS into the Outworlds Alliance, one of the first moves in the as-yet-undeclared Reunification Wars. Bloody Santiago, in 2572, hardened opinions and then the following year the Malagrotta Crisis made it clear that the Periphery States weren't going to peacefully join the Star League and the League wasn't going to take no for an answer."

"This, of course, meant that the SLDF would need a lot more 'Mechs than envisaged as it expanded and also had to replace its losses. More Thugs were requested but Maltex really hadn't envisaged this and were caught off guard. The best they could do was offer EarthWerks a license to start building the Thug on Keystone, which doubled production and ultimately kept the Thug in production two hundred years down the road when Maltex fell victim to Mr. Jinjiro taking Errai off the Capellans in 2835."

"Star Corps, on the other hand, were eager to get a slice of the pie and offered to rework the Warhammer to suit the SLDF's new protocols, which yielded the 6R model we all know and love today. This pretty much saved the Warhammer from vanishing the same way that the Battleaxe did. The SLDF bought a lot of them, the House armies bought them and after they were allowed to start building their own forces up again, so did the Periphery, who had a whole lot of nothing left and wanted to correct that in a hurry."

"That's where Vandenberg Mechanized Industries and Taurus Territorial Industries got their licenses to build Warhammers and why the Taurians currently control about half the Inner Sphere's Warhammer output. The Rim Worlds also bought quite a lot of them, contributing Tadeo Amaris' brinksmanship in the 2650s, mostly from the Star Corps factories on Son Hoa and Loxley. And in time-honoured tradition, that convinced Michael Cameron to start beefing up the SLDF again, with a new generation of BattleMechs."

"This, of course, meant that the Royal Command started handing their Thugs down to line 'Mechs and looking for replacements - and famously in 2681, the first duel of what we now call the First Hidden War took place on Benjamin. For those unfamiliar, the First Hidden War had DCMS mechwarriors displaced by the Edict of 2650 rocking up to SLDF bases and challenging the garrison to face them in duels. And in that very first battle, the SLDF officer who accepted lost... and he lost while piloting a Warhammer."

"StarCorps could see the writing on the wall: the Warhammer was likely to be pushed out of the Regular SLDF 'Mech regiments by the Thugs and one of their most successful products would be killed by the poor publicity. Meanwhile the SLDF was frantic to find out why they couldn't win the succession of duels, speculating wildly that the Combine had made some significant breakthroughs. They hadn't, by the way."

"So when the SLDF decided on the Gunslinger programme - more properly at this date it was called the Advanced Combat and Manuvering Skills project - to provide intensive training for fifty-two mechwarriors who would act as their champions against the Combine, StarCorps offered very generous terms on their WHM-6Rb model, on the condition they were sent to SLDF units inside the Combine, reasoning - correctly - that the Gunslingers would be given the best and newest equipment, and hopefully, some victories in the Warhammer would reverse the bad publicity."

"The 6Rb wasn't actually all that new: it was StarCorps attempt to counter the Thug's technological advantage over the Warhammer and they'd developed it in 2599, where the SLDF - just winding down the Reunification War and very happy with the 'Mechs they'd used to win it - weren't really interested. Nonetheless, it was a pretty good machine. It had the advanced heatsinks, to a slightly lesser degree than the Thug - largely because it had had been determined that the Thug really didn't need quite as much cooling equipment as it had - advanced targeting systems for the SRM launcher and the shortfall in armour was made up for a little with ferro-fibrous armour. I'd prefer a Thug, personally, but there's no denying that a 6Rb was definitely better than a 6R."

"In 2687, Colonel Donovan Fresnel of the 75th Royal Hussars was the first gunslinger to take the field against one of the ronin duellists. The duel was on Minakuchi and in an hour long battle, Fresnel was victorious... and he was piloting a WHM-6Rb."

"StarCorps was happy, the SLDF was happy, everyone was happy. Even the Draconis Combine, I assume, because they didn't stop the challenges for another fifty years. While gunslingers didn't always use the Warhammer, they were quite a visible part and the SLDF picked up the 6Rb production for Royal Command. For security reasons they were mostly built on Fletcher, in the Terran Hegemony, but sales of the 6R were still reasonably strong outside the SLDF and those were being built at several factories outside the Hegemony."

"The factory on Fletcher was a victim of First Succession War, but the other factories survived although one by one they mostly lost their Warhammer lines. The capacitors that gave the Warhammer such an edge with its Donal PPCs had always come from the Hegemony so those were a wash, but the three lines that remained managed to provide adequate substitutes. Four lines, if Olivetti can get theirs off the ground. Which would be great news."

"The Thug, in contrast, only had two factorys to begin with and after Maltex was destroyed in 2835 there was just the EarthWerks line on Keystone. Which took a certain amount of damage itself and lacks the supplies of endosteel due to the orbital factories having been over Errai and experiencing intimate relations with some nuclear missiles. Whether that was the DCMS or a Capellan effort to deny them to the Kuritans, I couldn't really tell you. Both blame the other and neither's what you might call a reliable witness."

"So there you have it. Three production lines for the Warhammer, compared to a dozen Thugs being basically hand built with what parts EarthWerks can still produce the components lines on Keystone, and substitutes for the rest. And given their problems making PPCs these days, I think we're pretty lucky to get as many Thugs as we do."
"It's national writing month, not national writing week and a half you jerk" - Consequences, 9th November 2018

Ghostbear_Gurdel

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #25 on: 05 February 2020, 22:51:04 »
drakensis: since there is no 'like' feature on the forum, here you go:  :thumbsup:
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Dave Talley

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #26 on: 05 February 2020, 23:43:41 »
👍

You had me hearing it with an Irish accent 😂
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SteelRaven

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #27 on: 05 February 2020, 23:49:07 »
Damn good narration, well worth the thread necro! :thumbsup:
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marauder648

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #28 on: 06 February 2020, 04:54:58 »
I read that in The Chieftan's voice :D Ya gonna have to do more of these you realise?
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: THG-XX Thug
« Reply #29 on: 06 February 2020, 16:13:42 »
Inside the Thug's Hatch with the Chieftain
Open with the Chieftain standing between the legs of a 'Mech.

"Today we're going to be having a look at one of the stalwarts of the SLDF's Dragoon and Heavy-Assault regiments."

Camera pans back and up, revealing the 'Mech in all it's glory.

"This is the Thug, to be precise it's a THG-11E which was the most common variant used by the SLDF. This particular 'Mech is in the regimental museum of the Kestrel Crucis March Militia, which is a great place to visit if you get the chance to look at it. Lots of First Succession War history is preserved here, you've got to remember that back in the 2790s right here was the frontlines between the Draconis Combine and the Federated Suns, which gives you an idea of how bad things were for House Davion at the time."

"Going back to the Thug, this one was captured by the AFFS in a DCMS repair bay during a counter-attack in late 2796. The owner, who some of you may have heard of, had been called away to a little place called Kentares IV due to a death in the family. The Kestrel CMM consider this to be the prize of their collection and there have been fourteen attempts over the years to steal it back for House Kurita, thus the armed guards."

Pan briefly to four fully armed AFFS infantry standing at attention around the 'Mech, which is standing in the middle of a repurposed hanger with various other exhibits visible in the background.

"Anyway it's not the 'Mechs' fault who piloted it and this one never went anywhere near Kentares." The Chieftain walks around the large feet. "I believe the reactor had been pulled when it was captured and never got put back, but otherwise it's in pretty good condition. There was actually some talk about putting a new engine in it at one point, but obviously someone thought better of that."

"The Thug was developed by the Maltex Corporation back in the 2560s and 2570s when a little thing called the Star League was still being put together. The Hegemony Armed Forces were looking at folding into the new Star League Defense Forces and handing some of their older equipment down to planetary militias, including much of their fleet of Warhammer heavy 'Mechs. This had been a standby of their heavy regiments for about fifty years, and it had handily countered House Davion's Hammerhands and Battleax heavies, but it was beginning to look a bit long in the tooth." Chieftain pauses. "Which is a bit ironic now, but they looked at things a little differently back then."

"With a lot of components being standardised at the time, to keep the SLDF's logistics from being more of an absolute nightmare than they were inevitably going to be, it really looked like a good time to take a fresh look at the Warhammer's role and see what else could be offered for the heavy-trooper role. They'd had plenty of time to see what worked and what didn't, after all."

Pan up to the Thug again.

"The most obvious thing to retain was the Particle Projection Cannon - PPCs, as most abbreviate that. Twin PPCs were a pretty ambitious undertaking, they build up a lot of heat,and the Battleax and Warhammer had been about the first 'Mechs to seriously try to operate with a pair of them and it was clearly a strain for both of them. But the pay off was that frequently they would wreck anything they hit. You have to remember, standard plating wasn't very standard at the time - a lot of second-tier units still used primitive or industrial plating and a PPC had a decent chance of not just ablating away more than half a ton of the stuff, they also had a nasty habit of causing the interior of the protection to spall - which was really good at shredding any systems - or crew - behind the plating."

"Throw in the fact that the secondary effects could impair electronics if your shielding wasn't right on point and taking even a single PPC hit tended to cause a significant emotional event for the people on the receiving end. And these bad boys were running around with two of them?" Chieftain winces. "Anyway, the issue was the amount of heat being built up. Maltex had access to the new endo-steel materials that let them lighten the frame and more importantly, to include next-generation heatsinks - what we call freezers. They fitted the Thug with more or less the same tonnage of cooling jackets, heat exchangers and so forth as the Warhammer, with the result that firing both PPCs barely spikes the temperature at all."

"Maltex didn't go for the same Donal PPCs that had been used on the Warhammer, instead they opted for these Tiegarts. Common 'Mechwarrior wisdom was that Donals do a little more damage, while Tiegarts are a fraction more accurate, so the decision makes sense. The Warhammer couldn't maintain a sustained barrage from both PPCs, so pilots wanted every hit to count, while the Thug could pretty much hold down both triggers with bricks and step away for a mug of coffee so it was more useful to make sure those shots hit. Ironically, of course, Tiegart was a casualty of the Succession Wars so a lot of later Thug's use Donals anyway."

"Now if you look down at the forearms, you can see another improvements the Thug offered over its predecessor: it's got hands. I really can't overstate how useful this made them. You could use them to help lift and carry supplies, drag damaged 'Mechs off the field, pick up salvage or an ejected pilot - even punch someone with a greatly reduced risk of damaging your PPCs. You can imagine how frustrating it is to find yourself having to get out and rig some sort of strapping so a Warhammer or Marauder can be useful for those circumstances, while in a Thug the mechwarrior could just reach out and do it."

"Moving in towards the centre of the 'Mech, you can see the secondary weapons. This is the same place the Warhammer mounted its distinctive cluster of lasers and machine guns, but the Thug sweeps those away and doubles up on the Short-Range Missiles that were always something of an afterthought on the Warhammer. We can only see one of them here, up on the right, because the cover is closed on the left one. Those panels just slide back to reveal a second launcher... well, that's the theory. In practise they had a nasty habit of getting jammed open, leaving the launcher uncovered, or closed - so you couldn't use it - or even half-way, which was the worst of both worlds."

"This is only the second biggest complaint about the secondary weapons though. The first is that without the machine guns, there's no dedicated anti-infantry capability. Maltex argued - and the SLDF agreed actually - that this could be left to supporting infantry units and dedicated anti-infantry 'Mechs. As people later found out, the real world isn't always that convenient. The common fix was to replace one of the two bins of SRMs with fragmentation missiles, which were certainly effective in an anti-personnel role, but they're not all that much use against armoured opponents, At least you could keep the other bin for conventional missiles."

"The other major change from the Warhammer is that the Thug is ten tons heavier. That's not always the best choice, because it means you need a stronger internal structure, a bigger engine, and in this case a more than thirty percent increase in the size of the gyro in order to maintain performance - and the Warhammer was pretty average in that respect as it was. But in this case I think Maltex made the right call because they had endo-steel structure which offset most of that extra weight anyway and it let them pack in another five and a half tons of Mitchell armour plating and fit both ammo bins with cellular ammo storage."

"Now as a mechwarrior, I'm always in favour of the last part, because having your 'Mech explode is always a bit traumatic. But the former was a huge improvement over the Warhammer. Back when that was brought in, around the start of the twenty-sixth century, ten tons of standard armour was considered perfectly acceptable but times had changed and heavier protection now seemed like a good idea. The Thug actually carries slightly more armour plating than the famously sturdy Awesome that was also being developed at the same time."

"Right, that's enough about the outsides, let's see what it looks like inside."

The Chieftain starts climbing a ladder hung down from the cockpit. "It certainly makes it easier when..." Pauses for breath. "When these are in 'Mech bays with gantries. I don't really miss this part of active service." Pauses again. "With the cockpit down between the shoulders, it's not really higher than a Warhammer's cockpit even if the 'Mech itself is a bit taller."

"Okay then." He lowers himself down the cockpit. "Normal layout here. Command seat at the front and," he cranes around, "just enough room for a passenger behind the seat if they're not too large. Just pray that you don't have to pull the ejection lever while there's someone back there."

"Two control sticks where you'd expect them and the pedals work the same way pretty much every 'Mech since the Mackie has. No jump jet controls, since no one was trying to make one hop around like a Victor. Which I imagine a lot of people are grateful, not least the designers because that would mean shellhorning in around... well, the HildCo Model 12s on a Victor weigh in at about three and half thousand kilograms if I recall correctly." (Camera blips slightly.) "Four thousand and change kilograms, I should say. Well, close enough for government work if you're a Capellan."

"There's just enough power here to bring up the systems, that's a line from the museum because, as I said, the reactor's not in this thing any more." The Chieftain hits the reactor power switch and several side-displays light up. "In fact, here on the damage display you can see it's telling us this right here. Auxiliary power only. Here on the left is the communications, a Colmax 90, which got the job done. And on the right, behind this panel should be a..." Pauses, looks at the empty space. "On loan to NAIS. Well, hopefully they mean New Avalon not Noius Archipelagus. Anyway, the TharHes Area-5 targeting computer, which got a lot of credit for the Thug's accuracy with the PPCs. As I mentioned earlier, it later turned out to mostly be the Tiegart's better focusing, but that doesn't make the Area-5 bad and who knows."

"One last thing." He indicates the damage display. "Down here are the capacitors feeding electricity from the reactors to the PPCs. These are the same basic units found on contemporary Warhammers and unfortunately completely slagged here. Which is a shame, because Star Corps lost the ability to make those years ago and we've since standardised on the competitor, as used on the MAD-1R Marauder - the later twin PPC heavy 'Mech of the Star League Defense Forces, and can't quite handle the same load. If anyone does have a mint-condition set of original capacitors, you're sitting on something that would probably net you more than the cost of the attached 'Mech these days. Good luck."

"So, that's the Thug. I'd love to take one out on a gunnery course, but as mentioned this one has no reactor and Maltex's Errai factory hasn't made any since the factory was destroyed in 2835, although not before providing a replacement to same Mr. Jinjiro we mentioned earlier. Earthwerks had licensed the design, since Maltex wasn't quite prepared for the popularity of the Thug and they build about a dozen THG-10E models - without the advanced endo-steel and cooling systems, unfortunately - on Keystone but unless I can scrape together jumpship fare to get across to the Free Worlds League, this is probably the closest I'll get. Which is a shame."

"So that's it from the tour of the Thug. Hope you found it interesting."


I enjoyed it.  It's a fun little piece of fanfic.  But...why tack it on to a thread in Fan Articles that's been dead for close to four years?  Wouldn't it make more sense to start a new thread in the Fan Fiction board?
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