Author Topic: Post wars of reaving views on...  (Read 19301 times)

rebs

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #30 on: 27 November 2019, 20:50:14 »
The text only mentions the Great Father on McKenna's Pride. 

I'm pretty sure Nicky was burnt to ashes by that large laser. 
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Nemesis

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #31 on: 28 November 2019, 02:19:34 »
I'm pretty sure Nicky was burnt to ashes by that large laser.
Yeah, but the cooling vest did its job and never got above its own ignition point. Clantech is awesome!

Well, that or the shot simply took off a critical piece. From Sarna - "When his body was extracted from the cockpit, he was already dead." So there was a body to extract, just very badly burned or possibly missing everything above and/or below the parts covered by the vest.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #32 on: 30 November 2019, 16:02:15 »
Even if it just wrecked the cockpit glass it could easily have been fatal.  A face full of hot glass shards and/or molten glass never did anyone any favors.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #33 on: 18 January 2020, 14:39:02 »
What about freeborns? So many toumans and bloodlines were wrecked did we see any mass infusion of freeborns into the toumans?

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #34 on: 18 January 2020, 22:24:09 »
I would imagine that doing such would be limited by the needs of rebuilding the homeworlds full stop. The Clans as a whole suffered massive civillian casualites for the first time in their existance, and even those worlds that survived sufered considerable damage and large-scale disruptuons. Removing more civillians would slow reconstruction
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truetanker

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #35 on: 19 January 2020, 10:44:38 »
Ok, we're told that clan science is far advanced in replacement organic parts.

Question?

Would they be able to build non-repoductive clones to help rebuild in such a way as to offset labor duties? I mean removing sex organs at birth and raising them as simple labor / technicians...

Expendable clones, fast bred with no future except building for their clan. Give them a purpose to build and shape, tell them the lie of your codex will be used in the next batch or so...

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Wotan

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #36 on: 19 January 2020, 16:07:36 »
How do you call all those washed out trueborns? They are a huge source for the lower castes. And many of them have bad feelings about reproducing.

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #37 on: 19 January 2020, 16:53:47 »
After the horrors of the Wars of Reaving, I suspect that anyone in the Scientist caste who even suggested such an idea would be executed on the spot

Wotan, I agree entirely with you there. While I can imagine that the Homeworld Clans would try to reduce washout rates in order to rebuild their armies, those that did fail trials or the like would be considered invaluable to reconstruction
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #38 on: 20 January 2020, 07:00:43 »
Would they be able to build non-reproductive clones to help rebuild in such a way as to offset labor duties? I mean removing sex organs at birth and raising them as simple labor / technicians...

Expendable clones, fast bred with no future except building for their clan. Give them a purpose to build and shape, tell them the lie of your codex will be used in the next batch or so...

TT

I always felt that the Clans much like the Kuritas could/should have mechanized their labor but chose not to because life was so cheap to them and it was more expedient to come up with grunt labor as punishment than to build Combines rather than Tanks in their factories. 

There is no evidence I know of that the Iron Wombs (and I've looked for my fan fics) could be used to accelerate maturation; or that the Clans ever had a phenotype with those capabilities. If they hadn't made one prior to the Wars of Reaving the hollowed out Scientist Caste post-War wouldn't be able to figure it out faster than normal human aging could provide new workers so I doubt it would be a priority.  The new Scientist Caste might have been tasked with just increasing population among the Civilian castes instead in addition to their Trueborn experiments.

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #39 on: 20 January 2020, 10:42:25 »
Also remember among the civilian castes there are ordered breedings and then there are the truly freeborn- where the people decide to get together to form a family (Nicki did not wipe out the basic block) and have kids outside their ordered pairing (sort of Diana).

Also, the sooner a trueborn ends up among the civilian castes the less likely they are to be influenced by disgust over natural reproduction.  Nothing in materials suggest the failed trueborns are exempt orders to pair up for reproduction- after all its how you get freeborn Elementals.  So yeah, the Homies could have ramped up their warrior production and it would have a side benefit of restoring the civilian castes, even if the washout rate was lowered.
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truetanker

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #40 on: 20 January 2020, 13:50:37 »
Reason I mentioned it was, well to be honest, most Homie clans don't have a large civie base to begin with, say 20ish million or so each... rest are either warriors, large part, or scientific types, smallest around 98k?

See I'm trying to get a hard number account of a typical clan, post dark age...

TT
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Wotan

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #41 on: 20 January 2020, 17:18:56 »
I don't think that after all that hart fighting against tainted ones, the clans will open up their warrior ranks for even more freebirths.
Anyway there is no chance to accelarate human growth as far as we know. Independently of freeborn or trueborn nature.
On the other side their is enough automation to increase the production rate of iron wombs within few years. So that should be the natural choice for each clan to plan the next generation for all castes.  It might be a hard choice to point out enough warriors to train that new generation as you need all of them in active status. But thats the decision you have to do.

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #42 on: 22 January 2020, 10:45:59 »
It is quite interesting that the remaining Home Clans have activated / fought for many bloodlines of other Clans. Even the bloodnames of the (tainted) Steel Vipers are very sought-after. I can think of that they might even reactivate aka purify bloodlines of the Inner Sphere Clans.
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truetanker

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #43 on: 22 January 2020, 11:24:05 »
Well the Stone Lions  are ex- Hell Horses after all...

So they had to prove they were not tainted in any way...

TT
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #44 on: 23 January 2020, 15:39:49 »
Reason I mentioned it was, well to be honest, most Homie clans don't have a large civie base to begin with, say 20ish million or so each... rest are either warriors, large part, or scientific types, smallest around 98k?

See I'm trying to get a hard number account of a typical clan, post dark age...

TT


I don’t think the numbers are quite that low.  IIRC, someone crunched the number from a book that gave planetary populations (WoK?  FM:U?  I don’t recall.) and game up with ~1 Billion for clan space as a whole.  Now, some of those may have left with the IS clans, and the Wars of Reaving no doubt killed a bunch.  But 20 million each would mean that less than 10% of the Homeworld population survived.  That seems...awfully low.
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truetanker

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #45 on: 23 January 2020, 16:06:11 »
I'm saying each have 20.Mil...

TT
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #46 on: 23 January 2020, 17:47:40 »
There’s only 4 clans left.  That’s 80 million total.  The Wars of Reaving killed 92% of the population?  (The book in question is FM:U, btw.  It has populations for each homeworld on p.39.  Strahan Mechty alone has 136,000,000 people.)
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rebs

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #47 on: 23 January 2020, 18:04:50 »
4 Clans and a good genetic engineering program could do a lot if given enough time.
« Last Edit: 23 January 2020, 18:13:09 by rebs »
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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #48 on: 24 January 2020, 07:27:17 »
They may have the other Clan's DNA provided that the Society didn't wipe it out.  Such as Clan Jaguar's blood houses are intact, copies of it and other clans were made.  However there a lot thorny issues if their pure or intact.
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rebs

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #49 on: 24 January 2020, 11:52:53 »
They may have the other Clan's DNA provided that the Society didn't wipe it out.  Such as Clan Jaguar's blood houses are intact, copies of it and other clans were made.  However there a lot thorny issues if their pure or intact.

And they have other Clans such as the Fire Mandrils. 

In theory, they have any bloodname left on Strana Mechty, providing that their particular blood chapel didn't get reaved by ortillery.

All I know is if the citizens of the IS thought the Clans were alien the first time, they're in for a shock.  Just wait and see how alien they'll be after the Wars of Reaving and another century or so of isolation.


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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #50 on: 24 January 2020, 13:55:21 »
And they have other Clans such as the Fire Mandrils. 

In theory, they have any bloodname left on Strana Mechty, providing that their particular blood chapel didn't get reaved by ortillery.

All I know is if the citizens of the IS thought the Clans were alien the first time, they're in for a shock.  Just wait and see how alien they'll be after the Wars of Reaving and another century or so of isolation.

And I for look forward to the wackiness which will ensue when clans “ fire jaguar” or the “ smoke mandrills” are unleashed

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #51 on: 04 March 2020, 15:42:01 »
Also remember among the civilian castes there are ordered breedings and then there are the truly freeborn- where the people decide to get together to form a family (Nicki did not wipe out the basic block) and have kids outside their ordered pairing (sort of Diana).

Also, the sooner a trueborn ends up among the civilian castes the less likely they are to be influenced by disgust over natural reproduction.  Nothing in materials suggest the failed trueborns are exempt orders to pair up for reproduction- after all its how you get freeborn Elementals.  So yeah, the Homies could have ramped up their warrior production and it would have a side benefit of restoring the civilian castes, even if the washout rate was lowered.
I could see the seeds laborer/tech caste rebellion happening here.  One centered around the female washouts. Being told you are the apex of humanity for most of your life only to bomb an exam and be shunted off to a lesser caste has to be a bitter pill.  Plenty of them probably find meaning and satisfaction in their new job. Peri seemed to be quite happy as a Scientist. But if the population problem is as bad as it seems, then female washouts may find themselves transferred to civilian castes but immediately ordered to pair and reproduce.  Being essentially reduced to brood mares.
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truetanker

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #52 on: 04 March 2020, 19:46:15 »
We're told that a lot of washout take to the drugs and alcohol addictions.

TT
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #53 on: 04 March 2020, 22:20:08 »
We're told that a lot of washout take to the drugs and alcohol addictions.

TT

Do we have any hard numbers of the civilian population casualties rate during the WOR? I would think esp among the coyotes they would have been terrible! The scarcity would then bump up their value right?

Orwell84

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #54 on: 05 March 2020, 02:07:38 »
And I for look forward to the wackiness which will ensue when clans “ fire jaguar” or the “ smoke mandrills” are unleashed

Or Clan Star Spirit, accompanied by Kindraa Mick-Kreese-Kline-Kardaan-Khatib (or 'Kindraa MK4' for short).

That same message fragment from IP3 referred to "previously hidden Clan Blood Spirit Galaxies" and "the 'Blood Adder' alliance which buried two centuries of animos...". Since those two centuries would have kicked off in 3059, could we see such wackiness as Clan Star Spirit emerging from the shadows c. 3250?

Probably not. But if the WoR & its Supplemental hadn't confirmed the Spirit and Mandrill destruction that message might have been fuel for some fun Home Clan speculation.

Do we have any hard numbers of the civilian population casualties rate during the WOR? I would think esp among the coyotes they would have been terrible! The scarcity would then bump up their value right?

Not precise figures. But Field Manual Update does have population stats for each Clan world in 3067. From those I've calculated an approximate total of 388.3 million dead - out of 1, 164, 250,000. Or in other words, we can reasonably expect about one in three men, women and children in Clan Space to have perished in just four years :o And unlike the Black Death which killed a similar proportion, the Clanners have only themselves to blame.

The Coyotes had to purge 95% of their scientist caste, which in 3062 numbered approx. 4,702,306 or 6.41% of the Clan's population (source: The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky). So between the Society's Revolt and the Reaving after, the 'yotes would have suffered ~4,440 - 4,450,000 dead scientists alone.
« Last Edit: 05 March 2020, 02:09:37 by Orwell84 »
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #55 on: 29 April 2020, 16:53:34 »
Did the social status of elementals or proto pilots change after the WOR do we think?

AlphaMirage

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #56 on: 29 April 2020, 20:17:05 »
Not a lot of Elementals in the Society forces, they just used drugged out norms for cannon fodder

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #57 on: 29 April 2020, 21:26:58 »
Not a lot of Elementals in the Society forces, they just used drugged out norms for cannon fodder

To clarify I meant afterwards with each clans toumans so depleted do protos and elementals get more of time to shine?

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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #58 on: 30 April 2020, 10:28:49 »
To clarify I meant afterwards with each clans toumans so depleted do protos and elementals get more of time to shine?
If we saw the Post WoR Homeworlds during the Dark Age novels, I'd bet serious money that you're right.  Stone's "swords into plowershares" plan was the in-universe justification for the writers saying, "There are new mechs coming off the assembly lines by the regiment.  We need to get back to our Mad Max roots where a lance of medium mechs was enough to accomplish 85% of the missions."  A little bit of reality crept in, so infantry and vehicles got buffed.

The IS Clans learned to live with this reality and I'm sure the writers would have enforced something similar on the Homeworld Clans. 

Idle question:  Have we seen any new protomechs, post 3100?
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Re: Post wars of reaving views on...
« Reply #59 on: 30 April 2020, 10:43:54 »
Yes . . . you get a new one from the Horses IIRC (Svartalfa?) and one that glides from the Ravens (Hippogriff).
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