Author Topic: What's old is neu: Relighting the Fringe with old guns and new wars  (Read 22314 times)

chanman

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What's the Fringe? The Fringe is, as the kids say these days, a vibes-based head space. Hammers Slammers minus the magitech. Reality with more mercs. Third Succession War without myomer. It's a time and place where life is cheap, heavy metal is plentiful, and a lot of people still think the infamous colonial Companies were on to something and their restive subjects of corporate administration have naught to lose.

More prosaically, The Fringe is a CBT-adjacent space closest to Ideal War that Failure16 cooked up as a setting for his fiction on a prior iteration of the board that was then built out as sandbox for BMR and HMVee tinkering to try and recreate modern armour inside BT rules. Most of it was done a looooong time ago. 2007/2008 (I was fresh out of college, unemployed, and long on free time).

I'll repost some of the foundational documents and we'll see where we go from there. Watch out for Rule 4. Serednya Slaviya good. Actual current events not good.

Daryk

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Glad to see it back! :)

Failure16

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When the Bat Signal alights...

The Fringe is an old, dear friend--because it has made me some real, old dear friends. For those of you wondering, it was borne of a desire to make the BattleTech game engine really work to simulate platoon-and-company level combat. And, well, it does, just so long as you change some of the basic conceits (like ablative armor, adding in overwatch and reactionary fire, etc.).

The seminal documents chanman posted are just that: a distillation of what was cooked up on the fly and produced nearly as quickly. There are typos and repetitive wording in some cases, but that's what happens when you push things out at a frenetic pace. They were never fixed because, well, the Fringe moved into something more, eventually, but this innocent initial version presented here can be used with basic BattleTech rules (just completely new units). As the Fringe grew, so did the background information. Some things like worlds changed names for a variety of reasons, power blocs were created. An Excel worksheet for AFV creation was devised. Rules morphed into a newly-created-from-whole-cloth set.

What did not change was that people got to make their own worlds and conflicts and populate it with their own gear and whatever else they wanted. And other people got to interact with all of that as everyone chose, just so long as everyone was respectful and everyone was having fun.

But, you know what? We weren't making prognostications back then, but a lot of the conflicts presented as people wrote fluff turned out to be sadly more real than not. I may not be happy about that, but I am proud that the group of people that banded together over a belief in Something Different were able to get some things right so many years later*.

For the uninitiated, the basic concept is easy: make a vehicle using the new weapons and paradigms and write some background for it. Or make up a world and write about that. The gear is what we as gamers get excited about and ruminate on an internet forum, but it is the people behind the gear the lights the Fringe on fire.

As chanman said, this milieu owes itself more to the Slammerverse than BattleTech, despite the actual rules first-used. Or, to put it in perspective, imagine if Starship Troopers was just a pair of handful of worlds duking it out in one portion of Known Space vice a War Over the Fate of Humanity. (As an aside, this is a Humans-only milieu; apologies in advance!). This is not a story about empires conquering each other. It is about individuals, groups, and nations doing what humans do best. And it isn't usually very pretty.

But please, this is not an attempt or invitation or thinly veil real-world problems to circumvent Rule 4. Several hundred of a few thousands of years in the future, none of what is happening in 2024 will be something people talk about on a daily basis. Besides, the Fringe's timeline probably departed from our own at some point in the near-past, so leave modern ails and problems out of this and have fun making up your own nefariousness!


*(Except for the ubiquity of drones--though we eventually did have rules for loitering munitions. I'll call it "close enough for hand grenades".)
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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And glad to see you back too, good sir! :)

Failure16

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Cheers, brothers. Glad to be back, in its way.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

chanman

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When the Bat Signal alights...

Now is the Bat Signal an S1 responsibility or S6?   :grin:

Daryk

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I daresay the Bat Signal is Commander's business... ;D

Failure16

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But one that is most assuredly farmed out to S3. The searchlight would definitely be towed behind a 577...

"Well, Ops, it looks like the bad guys chose CoA One after all, just as we feared. What do we have on deck?"

"Um. We have the Bat Signal outside, sir. But the Two says we only have about ten percent cloud cover."

"Damn. Get it going, Major. You'll just have to do your best."

So, the question is: personnel, public relation/communications, or if Batman is under the direct control of the commander...?

Someone needs to stat out the Batmobile, quick. I could do it in Tankreator easily enough, but lack my access to HMV at the moment.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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10/15 (fusion), MG and RL-10 at 10 tons work? :)

Failure16

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It could. Thinking on it, there have to be dozens of version of that vehicle, and I doubt the basic BattleTech construction engine could handle most of them adequately.

I am attaching a scenario that I think encapsulates the Fringe pretty well.  Poor, downtrodden locals getting squashed by off-world corporations to the point everyone starts hiring off-planet mercenaries and people and dreams start dying.

Look, no one ever said the Outer Fringe was a nice place. But it is always interesting.

EDIT: Don't worry too much about the game-related material, since it was written for the later, purpose-built edition of the rules (called Dust & Fire). The vehicles are heavy wheeled tanks and APCs for the Attackers (think up-armored Centauro B1s or Rooikats) and even bigger amphib- and MRAP-capable wheeled weapons-carriers and APCs for the Defenders. The important part is the fluff and background information that gives some insight into typical situations within the overarching milieu, and how military forces are set up.
« Last Edit: 09 June 2024, 01:28:12 by Failure16 »
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

ANS Kamas P81

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Hooray the Fringe!  I missed this game system and Tankreator, even if I never had a chance to play out a battle.  As a sandbox, it's a great place to play.

I think I'll port Serednya Slaviya over to the Fringe.  Mriya Slaviya, "Dream Slavia" for a name since this is a new place. 

The easy way is that they're a breakaway colony of Cherkasy, a second-order location that split away from the Cherkasians around 150 years ago.  It's old enough to be established, while still being arguably a young upstart colony among the others - and maybe with life extension technology, there's still a handful of first-generation ex-Cherkasians around to tell stories of the old lands.

A population of 100,000 formed the initial wave of colonists, and they bred themselves well.  With an average growth rate of 2% per year, by the sesquicentennial of First Landing the population was 1.95 million.  With the collapse of interstellar order and the rise of predatory worlds seeking to establish empires of their own, the Mriya Slaviyan Defense Forces was formed - technologically limited by its lack of heavy industry, they made up for it in manpower and mass conscription. 

Land on Mriya Slaviya is centered around a single large, Australian-sized continent and outlying islands.  Much of the coastal lands are farmland, providing Mriya Slaviya with a foreign export market above and beyond the planet's own needs.  Much of the rest of the world, namely the interior of the major continent, is desert wasteland.

The MSDF is formed around four military districts on the continent, each with one mechanized infantry brigade operating wheeled IFVs and wheeled howitzers.  Each district also gets an aviation brigade of mixed attack and transport helicopters.  There's no tanks, but there is a healthy ATGM industry on the world that provides defense against an invading force.  That accounts for 80,000 personnel in the military, the remaining 20,000 fill out an Air Force primarily focused around transports, allowing rapid redeployment of the land forces to respond to threats.  Several squadrons of single-engine multirole aircraft provide air superiority to challenge an attacker with.

The primary AFV is an 8x8 of a modular design like the real-world Boxer IFV, with swappable modules for infantry, heavy mortar, ambulance, command, and engineering vehicles.  The IFV is equipped with a cannon based around the French 40mm CTAS while lacking ATGMs of its own; each squad has a dedicated ATGM gunner among the dismounts.

For a reconnaissance vehicle, I'm going to copy over the EBRC Jaguar.  It's got the same 40mm CTAS gun, plus a pair of ATGMs in addition to a comprehensive sensor and networking capability.  It'll be a 6x6 vehicle on its own platform.

Artillery comes in two flavors, a 122mm wheeled SPG based around the PCL-171 from China, and a HIMARS-style wheeled heavy rocket artillery system.  Each brigade is equipped with two batteries of tube artillery and one battery of rocket artillery.

The standard battle rifle for the MSDF is a 7x48mm semiautomatic bullpup design with a 500mm barrel and 25 round magazines and an underbarrel three-shot 25mm grenade launcher.  The sidearm is a 6x28mm pistol, chosen for its armor-penetrating capability.  A bullpup PDW in the same caliber is given to vehicle and aircraft crew.

Attack helicopters likely use something similar to the Chinese Z-10 - it's built around an air-to-air missile capability in its choice of ordnance, with the ability to carry as many as sixteen missiles with better range and lethality than MANPADS-style carriers in the west.  It's also capable of carrying as many as eight AIM-9 Sidewinder clones, with two missiles per hardpoint.  The missile hardpoints can also carry AGMs and rocket pods as well,

The multirole fighter is going to be based on the Gripen, because I like the looks of that particular jet quite a bit and it's a decent aircraft.  Granted, it's not a stealth plane, but I figure the kinds of infrastructure required for radar and infrared stealth are beyond Mriya Slaviya's capabilities; it's why I'm using the Chinese attack helicopter instead of a FARA option (shame about that program). 

It's definitely a more comprehensive military than Serednya Slaviya's, and larger as well - but Mriya Slaviya isn't as poor as its inspirational counterpart.  It does have a high percentage of personnel in the military, at 5% of the total population, but that only puts it in line with Singapore with approximately 1/5 the military as active duty folks and the other 4/5 as reserves.

As far as industry goes, it's producing its own wheeled AFVs as specified above.  Heavy armor and special materials are too advanced technologically for building things like main battle tanks, but electronics and sensors are easy to build.  Drone technology is commonplace, with a mature technology base, so battlefield intelligence is pretty good.  ATGMs are built in large numbers as the only viable answer to enemy tanks.  Aircraft are imported, probably from various different planets.  It's in line with Singapore's industry, having to import tanks and aircraft while maintaining a solid technical support base behind it.

I wonder how AI exists in the Fringe, and whether it gets much use.  I could see combat uses for it in drone control and tactical biometrics, spotting enemy soldiers and vehicles from video feeds.  There's also the question of AI controlled vehicles, since the technology's got a thousand years to mature before it reaches the current day on the Fringe.  I suppose AI controlled weapons would be a thing as well, improving missile detection and tracking software to a fully self-sufficient, if suicidal, intelligent weapon.

This also comes to the question of information warfare and how advanced that is in the Fringe.  I suppose it could be handwaved as not being significantly different from what we have now, because countermeasures would follow breakthroughs in IW - the end result is a draw between attacker and defender in such situations, with the occasional successful takedown of a target information network or computer.

I guess it's a question of "what is the Fringe the future of" in regards to Battletech being the future of the 1980s.  Are we talking 2000s or 2010s or taking the Fringe from modern day and extrapolating outward from there?

EDIT: Looking over the Suggested Force rules in the core .doc, let's see...

Headquarters Element
  HQ Section: 2 IFVs, 1 APC, 2 Mortar Carriers
  Supply Section: 2 trucks, 2 jeeps
  Maintenance Section: 1 ARV, 1 APC, 1 truck
Primary Combat Force
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon: 4 IFVs, 4 Squads
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon: 4 IFVs, 4 Squads
Additional Combat Platoon
  Mechanized Infantry Platoon: 4 IFVs, 4 Squads
  ATGMV Section: 2 AFVs
Combat Support Elements
  Recon Platoon: 4 Scouts
  Fire Support: 4 Mortar Carriers
  Close Air Support: 2 VTOLs

I suppose this makes a standard reinforced company, accounting for the various elements.  There's no tanks in the MSDF, so I replaced that line in Primary Combat Force with a second Mechanized Infantry Platoon.  A third one rounds out the notional company, while an attached ATGMV section gives the unit a defense against heavy armor.

There's a lot of fire support with six mortars in the company, I went with four scouts to put the EBRC-alogues on the map; the thing looks cool and deserves to be up front searching for enemy targets.  Last up, I went with a pair of attack helicopters - I don't have a lot of jet fighters for CAS; their primary role is the air defense mission.  They can always be swapped out for a mission requiring a dedicated air strike on a target, but the typical force makeup would have the helos attached.

I suppose the infantry squads would count as medium tech, since they come equipped with body armor and camouflage along with communications equipment at the personal level.  What they lose in rifle firepower (being semiautomatic only) they gain in grenades with their 3-shot launcher; I've got to sit down and draw the rifle again.  I used to have a good picture of what I had in mind, but it'll let me come up with something new.
« Last Edit: 09 June 2024, 06:06:58 by ANS Kamas P81 »
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Daryk

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Nicely done! :)

Daryk

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A video I figured those here would enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_hlqVGj2VU

ImperialistDog

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*(Except for the ubiquity of drones--though we eventually did have rules for loitering munitions. I'll call it "close enough for hand grenades".)
Yeah I've tried multiple ways of handling drones using BT rules and modifications of them.  Most often in practice I treat them as if they were the closest analog unit in standard BT rules and adjust skills a bit up/down to move rolls in the right directions for what I'm trying to represent.  But I always included a roll every six turns that introduced a chance of the drone doing something randomly, I called it the "artificial stupid" rule to mimic the sort of random stupid you see from computers that don't have a human directly controlling them.  The event was unspecified beyond it had to be something directly counterproductive, obvious, and facepalm inducing.  Loitering munitions I could do okay at the mech scale but I never managed to get rules at the anti-personnel level that worked.  Either they were too complicated, or they gave one side too much of an advantage.

Failure16

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Love that Cherkassy gets to be mother-world, Kamas. And thanks for stopping by!

I'll give that video a watch soonest, D.

ImperialistDog, welcome!

Right now, I am thinking Drones should be some type of Fire/Air Support (loitering munitions and FPV drones) off-shoot or be a part of the fog-of-war rules (for C4ISTAR surveillance birds) or even some sort of pre-battle/pre-game deployment mechanism to reflect attrition before the fight (for noncompetitive games).

Keep it simple and keep the extra rules to a minimum, I say.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Gorgon

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Interesting stuff. I missed it the first time around, so thank you for reviving it. How exactly is space travel handled in this? The same dropship / jumpship combo as in BT? With just enough lift capacity to justify the setting but next to no space warfare? Or is the Fringe merely too poor and underdeveloped to support a navy of any kind?
Jude Melancon lives!

chanman

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Interesting stuff. I missed it the first time around, so thank you for reviving it. How exactly is space travel handled in this? The same dropship / jumpship combo as in BT? With just enough lift capacity to justify the setting but next to no space warfare? Or is the Fringe merely too poor and underdeveloped to support a navy of any kind?

As plot requires, basically. The general template are combatants who are already local to each other, with some augmentation via contractors or outside parties.

ANS Kamas P81

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Love that Cherkassy gets to be mother-world, Kamas. And thanks for stopping by!

I love the sandbox you made, and it's fun to come up with worlds.  I figure Mriya Slaviya started as a daughter colony subservient to Cherkasy, but they went their own way after a revolution - that's why there's such a high percentage of the population under arms, even if most of them are reserves.  That or they've been recent targets of star-mercenaries and went on a crash militarization program after winning their freedom.

That does bring up just what the planet's like; I've got a good feel for it with the one Australia-sized continent for just under two million people - it's an empty place, all things considered.  Lots of wasteland to play in, and coastal farmland to keep people fed.  Maybe there's a rich mineral deposit like the Argyle mine in Australia, and an interstellar demand for gemstones from the desert helps support the planet's finances.

The fact there's only one large land continent plus some outlying islands does make for some wicked weather, depending on how equatorial the land masses are.  There's a lot of hot water to generate storms in summer, so the monsoon season is probably particularly brutal - I suppose another duty for the MSDF is disaster relief, and the building codes on Mriya Slaviya's coasts are bunkerlike.

I won't deny that my inner Mad Max fan is why I'm going with Space Australia, and porting over my former Ukranians from Serednya Slaviya to populate the place.  All the little followon details are fun to explore.

Idle question and idea: air combat is something that's abstracted pretty heavily, but there's a question of how to apply CAP to one side or the other.  Right now it's just a force building option of a couple airstrikes, but perhaps there could be an option to take fighters into combat in an air superiority role, interdicting ground attack missions?  Maybe if one side takes ground strikes as part of its force formation and gets six attacks for the game, the other side could choose fighters in an air superiority role and cut those air strikes in half, only getting three for the game.  Air Superiority missions wouldn't have any impact on the ground; they're not carrying A-G weapons, but they'd be good for interdicting opponent CAS.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Tegyrius

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What does that sort of aggressive weather do to your aircraft design standards?
Some places remain unknown because no one has gone there.  Others remain unknown because no one has come back.

ANS Kamas P81

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They'd have to be built to take the weather, so that's a consideration in equipment.  It definitely argues against having stealth aircraft, since the coatings required for the invisibility performance don't do well in bad weather.  Rugged aircraft with rapid turnaround times for maintenance is good; the Gripen is known for its ten minute recycle time from landing to launch which covers inspections, refueling, and rearmament for the air superiority mission.  It's a good multirole platform, and I can see it being a thing in the Fringe...wonder who'd build it, and who they're selling to.  For fighters, I suppose there'd be about 150 in total for the MSAF, with around 180 pilots for the birds.  With 20,000 personnel, I've got about 800 pilot/aircrew spots to fill, that leaves me 620 for transport and airlift aircraft.

I imagine that brutalist architecture is popular on Mriya Slaviya, just to deal with what the weather throws at you.  Lots of concrete and steel construction, not a lot of glass facades or tall buildings.  The airfields would be located on plateaus and not in lowlands; with the kinds of storms that are possible flooding is a concern for the aircraft.  With the infamous loss of F-22s in the recent hurricane that hit the USAF base in the East Coast (I forget the details) it's definitely a concern for the MSDF.

There's not really much of a navy - there's a coastal patrol, primarily for civil protection and law enforcement, but there aren't many places to go by boat.  Nor are there any real threats over the water; the outlying islands have small populations and they mostly just want to be left alone.  That is, as long as they don't need rescuing from Mriyan hurricanes...

Mriya Slaviya's definitely more advanced than Serednya Slaviya, that's for sure.  Not just the difference in era, but it shows what I can come up with when I've got actual GDP to work with.  It also makes a nice place to fight over, with the gem mines
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Daryk

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I believe Gorgon was asking about a space Navy... :)

ANS Kamas P81

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So is there a chance of making Tankreator work with Open Office?  I don't have Excel and I end up with a lot of #VALUE! in various places, plus I'm limited in what's selectable and can't just enter in details.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

chanman

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So is there a chance of making Tankreator work with Open Office?  I don't have Excel and I end up with a lot of #VALUE! in various places, plus I'm limited in what's selectable and can't just enter in details.

What about Google Sheets? I think Open Office is mostly out of support now, isn't it?

ANS Kamas P81

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Wouldn't surprise me, I'm way outdated when it comes to that sort of thing.  Ask Daryk about all the help he's given me with character sheet spreadsheets!

Idly, an MSLF infantry squad makeup, just to settle on organization.  Details like this are fun to work out.

Squad Leader (K11)
Squad Marksman (Scoped 6.5x47mm Lapua Rifle)
Machine Gunner (6.5x47mm Lapua LMG)
MG Ammo Bearer (K11)
ATGM Gunner (K11, 1 Javelin-type ATGM)
ATGM Ammo Bearer (K11, 1 ATGM)
ATGM Ammo Bearer (K11, 1 ATGM)

The Platoon Leader and Platoon Sergeant remain mounted as their respective Vehicle Commanders.  At least one member in the squad is cross-trained as a field medic, typically one of the ammo bearers.  I suppose I've weighted the squad with an anti-tank capability higher than would be "normal," but the MSLF lacks armor of its own so it's got to rely on the infantry to fight MBTs and win.

Idly, I'm rethinking the idea of a standard rifle for the MSLF.  Instead of a bullpup rifle with an underbarrel grenade launcher, why not put a K11 through a few more rounds of testing and fixing defects, and issue this as a mature system:

as the standard combat arm of the Land Forces?  It's not like its stats affect gameplay much but it looks damn cool, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: 11 June 2024, 02:04:04 by ANS Kamas P81 »
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Daryk

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Is that... an AR++?? ;D

ANS Kamas P81

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I'd say so!
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

chanman

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Forgotten Weapons has a video on it. Long-stroke gas piston like the SiG 54x/55x series or AK, complete with the captive recoil spring behind the bolt carrier group. It's a lot like if you imagine an AK gas system with an AR bolt crammed into an AR upper with AR ergonomics.

Just like the OICW, the piggy-back bullpup grenade launcher doesn't play nicely with the AR's recoil spring location in the buffer tube* or rear-mounted charging handle. On the other hand, almost any rifle with a folding stock would work in that application once you replace the folding stock with a flat endcap (and maybe relocate/extend the charging handle, as can be seen with the G36-based rifle component of the XM29 OICW)


*I know there are buffer-less and side-charging AR uppers, but those are so far just niche consumer products

chanman

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Gun talk:

Outside of some delayed blowback oddballs (any HK in the G3 family, the FAMAS), you can basically come up with any modern service file by mixing and matching various characteristics:

Disassembly:
- Receiver cover or Upper/Lower receiver halves

Gas system:
- Short-stroke piston (almost invariably AR18-like)
- Long-stroke piston (almost invariably AK-like)
- 'Direct Impingement' (just the AR15 family, but the family is massive and my understanding is that the bolt carrier key essentially acts as an internal piston)

Bolt locking system:
- Rotating bolt or tilting bolt

Charging handle:
- Top/rear/left-side/right-side
- Reciprocating (top or right-side only) or non-reciprocating

Magazine release:
- Button/paddle

Receiver material (upper/lower may be different materials):
- Folded steel
- Aluminum forging/extrusion
- Polymer

Layout:
- Conventional/Bullpup

Stock:
- Collapsible/Folding/Both

Recoil spring location:
- Buffer tube/behind bolt carrier/in front of bolt carrier

Obviously, the thing to do is find combinations that aren't used yet and fill in the table  :grin:

Failure16

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This post does not incorporate ones past Daryk's 10 JUN post.

Welcome, Gorgon and Tegyrius! We're all glad to have you here because new faces mean new ideas.

Aircraft exist, but are basically a different species of Fire Support so far as the game goes. Things like VTOLs are fair game, but actual airplanes aren't really a part of the design system yet. Within canon, though, they did figure very prominently in the defense of Flanders when Novosibirsk tried to take over that arsenal-world. So, they exist, but are not commonly encountered by front-line forces because most of them have access to AFV-borne computer-directed air-defense laser batteries. That is likely a good remedy for drones as well, come to think.

From a design perspective, consider them just like modern aircraft--like Kamas said--and you should do fine. But thinks like a Pucara or similar would be more likely in the Fringe itself. Think modified cropdusters or low-tech aircraft vice F-22s. There is not and will not be ASFanalogues.

Having said that...The Fringe doesn't go in for space navies. If I had to portray Outer Fringe space combat on a gameboard, it would look a lot like Triplanetary and be described like what happened in The Forever War when the main characters' ship got caught by the Taurian cruiser.

So far as how it actually works...well, as chanman has said, it is nebulous.

The conceits thus far are:
  • Nothing too esoteric
  • Not something that would induce time dilation
  • Something that has some form of functional or operational drawback (e.g. the BTU's jump limitations or transit times as opposed to the Star Wars Universe's notable lack of the same)
  • Something that has some basis in realism
  • Something that means typical SF black navies are not a thing
  • DropShips or similar almost certainly exist, but they will be closer to a Shuttle or orbital LCAC than the BTU's bloated monstrosities

Whatever system is eventually decided upon needs to be able to facilitate armored regiments moving around the stars being A Thing. So, spacelift out of the gravity-well has to be surmountable. I am not opposed to space-elevators, but they would only be on the most developed stable elite Inner Worlds. I am quite sure many worlds are still using some kind of present-day rocket tech to get into the black, but they have to use a more viable form to transition to FTL.

Indeed, FTL may well be beyond the reach of all but the most established worlds. The Known Worlds, of which the Fringe is the bleeding edge periphery, are all just coming off a terrible time known as the Second Troubles following an equally terrible war following the destruction of the Sapporan Co-Prosperity Sphere (that name needs to change since it is so obvious...but it has a lovely ring to it). Think of the First Succession War or the Fall of Rome, but with more falling rocks and WMD usage. The present timeline is 2500ish but even that is a convention since the destruction was so great a lot of things were lost. This decades-towards-a-century-long hiatus is why Humanity has not progressed technologically all that much since our real timeline.

The Fringeverse is just getting past the dabbling stage of fusion engines that can power tank-sized AFVs. In the later rules editions that became Dust & Fire and the accompanying design spreadsheet called Tankreator that would be Tech Level 6, with 2000ish being TL4 and WWI being TL1. The present is edging steadily towards TL5, but not quite yet. A lot of that is not replicable with the as-shown strictly BTU friendly rules, but there it is.

If people want to know more about the Fringeverse and how we were designing AFVs back them, it will have to be e-mailed, unless someone in the know wants to set up a Dropbox of some kind. I am proud of the communal work done with Tankreator since I have designed everything from wheelchairs, to HM300 dump trucks, to Renegade Legion gravtanks, BattleMechs, and nearly every real-world AFV imaginable. It is very robust once you figure out how to dissect a design and get to its fundamentals.



For those who are wondering, the very first stories were indeed a rumination of what it would be like in Drake's Slammerverse if you were a part of a mercenary unit other than Hammer's Regiment. So, the tech and general feel simply morphed from there into something we could all use here. But it is not that universe. (This one already has a Hammer's Regimentalike known as the Foreign Service Regiment, but that's about as far as it goes.)
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth,                                And through villages of ether
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.                   Oh, my crucifixion comes
When I needed something good.                                         One day we'll reveal the truth,                    Will you sing my hallelujah?
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.      That one will die before he gets there.       Will you tell me when it's done?
But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra                                                      --C. Love
--A. Duritz

Daryk

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So... aircraft-wise, are we talking A-1Ds or Super Tucanos?  Or (dare I say it) F-5s? :)

 

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