What's old is neu: Relighting the Fringe with old guns and new wars

[Elmoth]

Yeah. That is clearly an option for a rear echelon system if you want piece compatibility in the basic chasis. 

[Failure16]

Yeah, the Core Worlds are in for some troubles in the coming war. Everyone is, really, because it is frighteningly easy to drop rocks on people once you have star-drive. And that is the kind of thing that causes civilizations to falter, especially if you seed the aftermath with persistent chemicals and biologicals.

I can work up an upgraded Novo tank, probably developed from their poor showing on Flanders at the turn of the century. Unless chanman wants to take a stab at it. I started one last night, but it needs fifty tonnes to get the protection levels you want and the rest of the bells-and-whistles it needs. The Novos just don't have the TL like Höchstädt or Sapporo do. Still, that's not a bad mid-line considering the T-77...but "gifts to friendly social organizations" will still likely be the T-75 and -76 until the end. I'll see what a T-78 or -79 can bring soon.

I haven't done an MLRS yet. But I should to check the system-weights. I remember the damn ZT-3 killing me softly.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Rocks fall, everybody dies!

What's the T-75 and T-76?

Ten tons feels right for a MLRS launcher in game stats, considering the HIMARS at 18 tons and the M270 at 24 tons.  Three rockets per ton for ammunition breaks down easily in existing vehicles, HIMARS having two tons of rockets, M270 having four tons.  I would have included TOS-1 in this list, since it's shooting 220mm rockets, but it's bloody short ranged - 3km range for the Soviet-era model, and 10km for the upgraded version.  That's Salvo Rocket ranges, rather than MLRS ranges.  BM-30 Smerch is more in line with that kind of rocket, lobbing 12 300mm rockets 70-120km with a weight of 44 tons.  You could put two "launchers" on it and call it a rapid-fire system with four tons of ammo.

[chanman]

Rocks fall, everybody dies!

What's the T-75 and T-76?

Ten tons feels right for a MLRS launcher in game stats, considering the HIMARS at 18 tons and the M270 at 24 tons.  Three rockets per ton for ammunition breaks down easily in existing vehicles, HIMARS having two tons of rockets, M270 having four tons.  I would have included TOS-1 in this list, since it's shooting 220mm rockets, but it's bloody short ranged - 3km range for the Soviet-era model, and 10km for the upgraded version.  That's Salvo Rocket ranges, rather than MLRS ranges.  BM-30 Smerch is more in line with that kind of rocket, lobbing 12 300mm rockets 70-120km with a weight of 44 tons.  You could put two "launchers" on it and call it a rapid-fire system with four tons of ammo.

I assume T-54/55 and/or T-62. The T-72s weren't gifted, they were sold. The USSR was hard up for foreign exchange by that point.

[Failure16]

Something like those, yes. Chanman made them originally; I just converted them into Tankreator.

The -75 and -76 are really more like the T-54/5 split: not really all that much difference in game terms or on a CITV. The T-75 is older, has more basic CBRN protection, and slightly lighter frontal/turret armor than the later -76. Think of them as Ratels vs. T-55s in SA and you'll be where you need to be mentally.

Mediumish armor, decent main gun, machine guns. But pretty fast, given what they are. Get enough of them together and they will be in your position before you can crack them all.

The T-79 is new. Pretty heavy for the Novos (T-77 notwithstanding), but it has a slightly better main gun and considerably better protection. But much slower overland, similar to other nations' tanks. But...it also has a Gun-Launcher Control Module to allow it to use through-barrel light ATGMs; a first in this thread. So, it is not solely just another tank. It could give other MBTs a run for their money if they aren't careful.

I would fluff it as a joint development project by the Cherks and Novos based on the earlier marks' relatively poor performance against even ancient M5 Hermans on Flanders. The development time was so short because it was based on a chassis that was developed for the T-77 contract but was scrapped when the design consideration eventually went heavy-heavy. So, they had a medium-heavy chassis that was mechanically sound and decently armored. It just had to fine-tuned and put into production...

If chanman accepts, this can be the main-line HPK battletank in the early 2500s. The T-77 was never that: it was always an IS-3alogue, a line-breaker or -holder. As much as I love popping T-75/6s with other light tanks, I have to believe the Novos would eventually wise up.

Of course, they won't be ready for the heavy hovertank of the FSR, but no one else is, either.

[ANS Kamas P81]

The Novos build solid medium tanks.  I can see the direct lineage from the T-75 to the T-76, the latter is a fine improvement on the former while keeping the same weight.  Impressive work.  That's a lot of main gun ammunition onboard those tanks too, plus the CBRN protection.  The T-79 is the kind of thing I could see being a proper main battle tank for the Novos; like you said the T-77 is an assault-breacher or lineholder and not an MBT.  It's big, it's slow, it's got a hell of a gun on it, and good luck getting through that armor.  I like the T-79 as a general purpose tank, it's got acceptably speed, decent armor, a good gun, and defensive systems onboard.  Though I notice the T-79 is missing its vodka holder.

And that gun-launched missile is a GM/M, with 14 points of armor pen and some good long range.  That's going to be a nasty surprise to someone who thinks they outrange the SC/11, which is going to be a difficult enough proposition in its own right.  I'd make a fair split and go 10 missiles and 25 rounds of gun ammunition.

Man, hiring the FSR has to be really expensive - it's a good thing they don't stick around long, a garrison contract at their prices would probably bankrupt planets.  But when you need the best, price is something you don't ask about.  Between paying off the mercenaries and rebuilding their army, Mriya really strained its economy.  Fortunately it was planned to stand down from a military emergency in 2530 and go back to a civilian market-focused economy without the heavy demands for production and resources.  Just in time for orbital bombardment in IW2...but it's good to be punctual.

Keep the record sheets coming, I'm saving them all!

[chanman]

Something like those, yes. Chanman made them originally; I just converted them into Tankreator.

The -75 and -76 are really more like the T-54/5 split: not really all that much difference in game terms or on a CITV. The T-75 is older, has more basic CBRN protection, and slightly lighter frontal/turret armor than the later -76. Think of them as Ratels vs. T-55s in SA and you'll be where you need to be mentally.

Mediumish armor, decent main gun, machine guns. But pretty fast, given what they are. Get enough of them together and they will be in your position before you can crack them all.

The T-79 is new. Pretty heavy for the Novos (T-77 notwithstanding), but it has a slightly better main gun and considerably better protection. But much slower overland, similar to other nations' tanks. But...it also has a Gun-Launcher Control Module to allow it to use through-barrel light ATGMs; a first in this thread. So, it is not solely just another tank. It could give other MBTs a run for their money if they aren't careful.

I would fluff it as a joint development project by the Cherks and Novos based on the earlier marks' relatively poor performance against even ancient M5 Hermans on Flanders. The development time was so short because it was based on a chassis that was developed for the T-77 contract but was scrapped when the design consideration eventually went heavy-heavy. So, they had a medium-heavy chassis that was mechanically sound and decently armored. It just had to fine-tuned and put into production...

If chanman accepts, this can be the main-line HPK battletank in the early 2500s. The T-77 was never that: it was always an IS-3alogue, a line-breaker or -holder. As much as I love popping T-75/6s with other light tanks, I have to believe the Novos would eventually wise up.

Of course, they won't be ready for the heavy hovertank of the FSR, but no one else is, either.

I have no problem with any of those. It brings to mind how T-54/55 really bridge the medium tank-MBT transition, along with its contemporaries. What's the magic transition that turns the M47 medium tank into the M48 MBT?

And if the Centurion is considered an MBT, then surely the Panther beat it to the punch. Similar gun, mobility, weight, engine power, and protection. Take your pick between the Centurion's abysmal range or the Panther's habit of chewing up suspension parts...

[ANS Kamas P81]

I'd go out on a limb and say the switch to diesels that gave tanks massive improvements in range was the last step to an MBT.  The M48 goes from a 110 mile range to 310, while the M47 was stuck running gasoline.  The Panther has all of a 62 mile range on a full tank of gas offroad.  It's a little thing, but not having to refill your gas tank every two hours frees you up to a lot more strategic mobility.  I suppose that'd make the T-54 the first true MBT.

The T-79 is the tank that cleaned up the Levs and Otselot 90s of the MLF.  The poor Otselots and their 90mm low-pressure gun can just barely pierce the sides of a T-79, but they're outranged by the T-79's gun by a good 900 meters.  And that PDS system is going to nope ZT500 missiles from the Otselot ATGM carriers, making the fight rather one-sided.  It's really a testament to sheer Mriyan defiance that the war lasted as long as it did.  However, in the real world, Ukraine is half the size of the Mriyan continent and they've held out for two and a half years; maybe I'm not giving the Mriyans enough credit.  Either way, once the FSR shows up, things get flipped on their head and the hovertanks rip the Novo/NMPR forces to shreds.

Also since F16 likes Armored Cavalry, have a video from the Chieftain about life in the 11th. 

[Failure16]

Okay, MH-6 inbound. This came out to spec within .02 tonnes on the very first try. The only thing I had to do was make the patented Mriyan Beer Holders for your pints of Lvivska a touch smaller. SpecOps always get the new toys; in this case graphite beer holders on the skids. "Chisty" supposedly stands for "Clean", you know, like the UH-1 troop carriers were "Slicks". Well, I tried.

Did I forget the MPP-12s? Here some of them are.

[Failure16]

The rest of the gun-birds. No changes, really. Just massaged some stats to encompass all the Vietnam-era UH-1-based gunships. Lot of variations that were standard. I am certain there were even ones no one had pictures of, therefore are lost to time. What can I say? The UH-1 is the real-world version of the line in 3025's Archer: they are everywhere and chances are the one you find may be modified somehow.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Okay, helicopters!  The Chisty makes a great specops ride, and carrying six infantry gives me a deployable Heavy Rifle Team for the Air Rifle Battalions.  That's more than a Fire Force stick, but I can find something to do with the two extra troopers - a grenadier with an M79 and a fourth Rifleman come to mind.  I approve of the carbon-fiber beer holders, and that speed is fantastic.  The Kaban-A is a heavily armed gunship, I'm guessing a 40mm AGL on the nose, the twin 19 shot rocket pods, and MAGs for door guns.  It's slower, but I can live with that.  The Kaban-B can really lay down some fire, and the third one's a nice mix of the two.  I also approve of the point of armor on the nose, that'll be good protection against MMG fire from things it's shooting at.  The Mini Kabanchik is great, you got the GAU-19s on there.  Plenty of BRRRRRT plus the twin 19 shot rockets?  The Rozvidnik-B is a little faster, but I like having the APW/GHs more.  And the Rozvidnik itself mounts six MAGs, that's a lot of bullets going downrange 

Here's a question, what happens if the weapons outrange the fire control system?  Say I've got a long range shot lined up at 5,000m with the rockets, but my FCS only goes to 4,000.  How is that handled?

[Failure16]

Good question. The easy answer is: no joy. It's like saying my M2HB has a point target range of 1500m but if all I have are my eyes and the integral iron sights, well, I'm probably not going to make the shot if I could even identify the target in the first place (which I probably couldn't).

There is also a thing such as slant distance that airborne elements would have as an advantage; their weapons go further than ground units firing in a straight-line (or back at them). I haven't found an elegant way to incorporate that into the game, and especially the record sheet. Maybe if I set up a multiplier if the Structure "Aerial" selection is tagged...hmm. On the other hand, some of the more common helo-mounted weapons may already have that figured in. I'd have to check, but I do not think so.

Thanks for that video. It was nice to see the old stomping grounds. Best regiment in the world. And the Fringe, too!

But those bastards have it easy*. Back in the olden days, we were pulling ten rotations a year plus an eleventh internally (called Blackhorse Stakes)! But that is why the Blackhorse is the best!


*Just kidding; what the intelligence captain said about two years and twenty rotations in matched my experience in any event.

[ANS Kamas P81]

That's about what I figured the end result would be - it's just too far a shot to make with your current FCS.  Want to plink at range, get better fire control; that's a pretty logical point.

Slant ranges would have to factor in altitude and that can be pretty variable.  The last thing we want to do is overcomplicate the game with trigonometry to calculate true ranges and such; I'm fine with letting the stated ranges stand as they are.  Though...maybe a "low altitude/NOE" would have no range modifier, while a "high altitude" would have a 1.25 modifier just to pull a number out of my rear.  That could also work defensively, giving return fire a range modifier of 0.8 to consider the upward slant you're firing on.  5/4 and 4/5 modifiers, just at a first glance.

Long live the Blackhorse!  And that video's first in a series, I'll post the others as I spot them.

I suppose the Mriyan military is too small a force to have a dedicated training brigade like the 11th ACR, with only six BDEs across two divisions.  If I was going to do anything of the sort, I'd use the Black Rhino brigade.  Maybe in a hundred years when they've recovered from IW2 and have a large enough population to support a significantly larger armed forces. 

[Daryk]

Heh... the troop carriers don't need beer holders... they need kegerators! :D

Trigonometry isn't that complicated, but I can understand most people's aversion to square roots.

[Failure16]

Well, I use geometry every single day. That is my comfort zone! Trigonometry is not significantly worse. Still, the question is simple elegance within the confines of a game engine.

Going back a bit, I think the key to sling-loading will be finding the Rosetta Stone within engine weights insofar as they relate to power. It needn't be complicated or exact, just close enough. That does mean going through all the available engines for real-world designs which there are sling-load capacities and finding some relationships. It may not be "right", but it has worked for everything else so far.

Heh... the troop carriers don't need beer holders... they need kegerators! :D

Too true, but in this case, Mriyan SF operators will need to forgo the sixth person and install the keg there. Or simply operate with one pilot and put the keg in the right-hand seat!

I have no problem with any of those. It brings to mind how T-54/55 really bridge the medium tank-MBT transition, along with its contemporaries. What's the magic transition that turns the M47 medium tank into the M48 MBT?

And if the Centurion is considered an MBT, then surely the Panther beat it to the punch. Similar gun, mobility, weight, engine power, and protection. Take your pick between the Centurion's abysmal range or the Panther's habit of chewing up suspension parts...

One could say the T-34 was close to being an MBT, but that is a slippery slope indeed. I agree that the Cent and Panther are ultimately poor examples of an MBT, since they lose out on maximizing the roughly equilateral triangle of speed(mobility)-firepower-protection.

The magic transition--for the US at least--was pretty much 1953 (the date of the M-48), to be frank. I think that is the long and short of it. Consider that the T-54 came out in, well, 1954.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I suppose if it's not too complex, something to figure slant angles could be worked into the game.  It'd have to be calculated both ways, for outgoing and incoming high altitude fire, but keeping it simple is important in my opinion.

Keg copilots it is!  That'll keep my squad size of six, and still keep morale up for the spec ops guys. 

So I wonder.  After the 2520-2523 war with Novsibirsk, how reasonable is it for Mriya to go full North Korea and institute long-term conscription for improving their military?  They've always been a fairly militarized society, with lots of pro-army propaganda and military control of portions of the government.  They have a lot of volunteers for the army, but I'm wondering if switching to a long-term conscription model after the war would be believable.  North Korean conscription goes for all men age 17 to 30, a thirteen year term and a seven year term for women.  It'd be a big shift for society, but nearly losing the planet would be a pretty significant enough shock to the government and the people that it might be possible to put through such a change.

What do you guys think, would Mriya stick with a volunteer system and hope for the best, or institute conscription and hope for the best?

[Daryk]

After a calamity of that magnitude, I think conscription would reasonably be accepted.  Maybe not 13 year terms, though...

[ANS Kamas P81]

Yeah, not going that long - at least not at first.  Gotta have a goal to work towards, after all.  Probably five years active and five years in the reserve, which is still a bump up over a 4/4 volunteer term.  General conscription for men with some deferments for academicians and health exemptions, and a more limited conscription of women with more deferments and exemptions.  Volunteers, of course, are happily accepted and tend to get fast-tracked to the job they request - join up on your own and get priority for your posting of choice.

I'm thinking about it.  Anyone against?

[Daryk]

Not me!  I'm all for that plan... :)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Okay, that's one vote for mass conscription then.

Idly, I ran across this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songun and I can see a variant of that being a thing in Mriyan society.  Instead of a revolutionary mindset, however, it's one of a pro-monarchic order where the military is tied to the throne itself.  I suppose that makes whoever is king the chief in command of the armed forces.  Add in members of the House of Lords that are high-ranking active duty military officers, and you've got the army having at least a foot in the door in Mriyan politics.  Probably quite a bit more than that, in all honesty.

"Not a country with an army, but an army with a country."

[Daryk]

Now you just have to translate "General Sir..."/"General Lord..." into Ukrainian... ;D

[ANS Kamas P81]

"Генерал Лорд" according to google, so Heneral Lord..."Генерал-Король" (Heneral-Korol') for General-King of Mriya.  When you sit on the big chair, you get the big title. 

[Daryk]

Unless you'd rather have Field Marshals... ;)

[Elmoth]

Ok, i am taking too much fun  to be healthy, building up all possible variations of a gun striker. It is basically anything form aingle (and doube!!) ac2 to ac10, and adding some srm.or.
 lrm for support.

Am i assuming correctly that rocket launchers are a thong in the universe? Because those are good for small packages like a striker that wants one or 2 backup weapons for a momentary oomph.

[Failure16]

BLUF: Make whatever you want, how you want. We'll appreciate it all the same, Elmoth!

Well, rocket launchers are a thing in that they exist. But they would be about as effective on a purpose-built AFV as they are in the real-world, which means not all that much.

I have attached a BattleTech-friendly Systems List. You can use standard BattleTech weapons and we will get what you are aiming for. Just remember, the Fringeverse uses Thresholding at 10% of the Facing Armor (so, 20 armor on the Front means anything doing 3+ Damage gets a Critical Roll). As a basic design tip: make your vehicles like real-world vehicles. Choose a good gun and decent armor over two okay-guns (or too many supporting systems) and bad armor.

The second file is really ancient and merely adds systems to the existing BTU weaponry and shows kind of some conversions. You will note back then we were originally using a 3000 timeframe. Things changed over time, so take the info both documents with a grain of salt. They are original and unaltered from when they were abandoned. That kind thing happens to Fringe worlds all the time!


Kamas, given that Mriya has had such a militarized outlook for so long, i cannot see how conscription would not work. Still, I would heartily suggest against a 2-year stint and against a 13-year trip. With the former, your conscripts will spend a measurable percentage of their time training and little time applying and you will end up with a military force full of clueless youngsters who just aren't effective. With the latter, you will be setting back your whole society to start their lives in their late twenties, including having children, starting careers, working towards retirement and doing all the other things that makes societies work.

I say, have everyone take a 3-4 year ride depending on their MOS and you would be at or near a certain sweet-spot. Go in at 18, get out at 21-22. Go to school. Get a job. Get married. Get a house. Get kids. Get old. Get retired.

All the joys of modern life.

I have been thinking a lot of how militaries are formed in the Fringeverse. Since I've been trying to work through Hochstadt's backstory, I realized that they initially had no military because it went away during the Second Troubles. Once starships stopping plying the lanes, having a military was a liability--people with guns and nothing to do make bad neighbors. Once the Resumption began, they started to develop a planetary militia. Which was fine until one day a bunch of wankers tried to pull a coup. Then the people in charge decided that it would be better to make a military that had loyalty to something greater than themselves or their provinces. And that it was ultimately easier to corral the troublemakers and simply ship them off to die in other peoples' backyards. The fact they got really good at making those other people die was just an unintended consequence of training them too well and giving them equipment that was just good enough...

So, like everything else they did, Hochstadt made it a business, and business was good.

At the very worst, Hochstadt is First Amongst Equals. Really, it is the top of the heap, and if people don't like it, they cannot deny it, either. But it never had the really serious shocks to its fibers that Mriya had, so Mriya can reasonably be assumed to have a fundamentally different mindset. Everyone suffered during the Great Interstellar War--and ISW2 will be catastrophic for nearly everybody--but Hochstadt and the other Core Worlds were not faced with dissolution, just a serious setback where things were dicier than they maybe should have been.

Of course, everyone learned the wrong lessons. Instead of buying more guns, they should have been working on making the League of Settle Worlds work. Maybe the next time around, their great grandchildren will make better choices.

But they probably won't. The Fringe endures, but it does so through dust and fire.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Yeah, the big difference between the Fringe and BattleTech is that weapons are penetrative, not ablative.  Thresholding rules make most to all BT vehicles and 'Mechs die brutally unless they're carved out of a block of armor grade steel, and there's very few vehicles that can stand up to the Fringe's incoming fire.  They just don't put enough armor on, because the paradigm is so different.



According to Ruffling the Fringe, the ranges for ground-vehicle-based rocket pods is cut in half.  They're pretty much a hail mary weapon; you'll get more accuracy praying for your shot than you will with a fire control system.

Alright, a general four year conscription term, plus four years as a reservist, then you move into the mobilization pool until you're 40 and you're completely out.  Based on age demographics by 2530 I'm employing about 70% of the men and 30% of the women in that age group, including volunteers in that estimate.  About 60% and 20% respectively of those that are 22-26 are in the reserves.  That's about half the total 18-26 population in the military.  Go to college after your military stint and work your weekend a month, and get the jobs that go to the politically reliable who served.  If you're nobility, you're definitely in the army; there's still plenty of exemptions but a nobleman who doesn't serve and doesn't have a good medical fitness reason is deemed politically unreliable.  A lot of opportunities dry up if you didn't sacrifice for the kingdom.  And after you get married, have lots of kids.  Expand the population of Mriya; the future of the world depends on you!

Which means the military of 2530 is going to be a lot bigger in personnel than the military of 2520, but ten years is enough to institute national service and have it running coherently by the end of that timeframe.  The trick is having enough hardware, but that's a limitation of the military-industrial complex on Mriya.  I'll work around that.

Mriya was in a similar position as Hochstadt; though they retained a paramilitary force that was more akin to the National Guard for quelling domestic disturbances and dealing with natural disasters rather than as a fighting force.  The Mriyan Militia was a relatively loose organization, territorial defense troops that supplemented the MFP as-needed with horse cavalry and truck=transported and foot infantry.  An extended police force, more or less.  They went from 2363 to 2460 before seeing another starship, so they were pretty insular by the Resumption.

Buying guns is profitable, and parades are shows of strength.  Strength is popular among the people.  Maybe after ISW2 the remaining populations will finally come together to make the League what it could be, but there's a new tank you could invest in and show off your strength with.  The tree of the knowledge of good and evil has a counterpart in the tree of firepower, and it's watered with the blood of the fallen.  It grows well.

EDIT

So I'm looking at Karakal variants I'm going to need and 2000kg is too light for the base vehicle's weight.  I need an Avenger analogue for SHORAD battalions in the division and the weight of a GM/ADL is too heavy for the original idea for the Karakal.  I'm upping the weapons budget to 850kg with a 1400kg mass budget for structure, crew of two, and engine.  That gives me an APW/H (100kg) with 225 bursts of ammo (750kg), a GM/M (200kg) with six rounds of ammo (150kg) and an Enhanced Ground FCS (500kg), a Medium Mortar (250kg) with 42 rounds (600kg), and a GM/ADL (500kg) with 8 missiles (240kg).  Add 1,000kg of cargo to each of those variants to account for carried troops to crew the weapons.  Total mass budget is 3,250kg.

[Elmoth]

Ah, wow. That p0enetrative armor (real world armor) changes things A LOT. It also makes the AC5 equivalent a real weapon.

[chanman]

Well, I use geometry every single day. That is my comfort zone! Trigonometry is not significantly worse. Still, the question is simple elegance within the confines of a game engine.

Going back a bit, I think the key to sling-loading will be finding the Rosetta Stone within engine weights insofar as they relate to power. It needn't be complicated or exact, just close enough. That does mean going through all the available engines for real-world designs which there are sling-load capacities and finding some relationships. It may not be "right", but it has worked for everything else so far.

Too true, but in this case, Mriyan SF operators will need to forgo the sixth person and install the keg there. Or simply operate with one pilot and put the keg in the right-hand seat!

One could say the T-34 was close to being an MBT, but that is a slippery slope indeed. I agree that the Cent and Panther are ultimately poor examples of an MBT, since they lose out on maximizing the roughly equilateral triangle of speed(mobility)-firepower-protection.

The magic transition--for the US at least--was pretty much 1953 (the date of the M-48), to be frank. I think that is the long and short of it. Consider that the T-54 came out in, well, 1954.

I think the Centurion gets the credit because the Brits called it that; the 'universal' tank project. And I think they also get credit for nomenclature by calling the Chieftain a MBT, but the term gets retroactively applied to the post-WW2 medium tanks that make a majority of a force with light and heavy tanks being specialized types operated in much smaller numbers and/or falling by the wayside and the MBT term being retroactively applied to tanks that were well... the main battle tank of their respective forces instead of being dedicated breakthrough or recce/special terrain machines.

I think you can apply that rationale to WW2 that whichever designs were intended/used for the bulk of combat roles and intended/actually made up the numbers should have been the MBTs of their time. So, the T-34, M4 Sherman, Panzer 4, and Panther all have reasonable claims for being the MBTs of their time and place. And I'll just throw my hands up at the Brits. Arguably the Valentine and the Cromwell were the closest they got during the war.

The US also dropped the light/medium/heavy terminology by 1950 anyway.

[ANS Kamas P81]

MBT definitions are fuzzy at best, just the fact that the few of us all have different definitions proves that.  I'm still going to stick with diesel power being an important factor in an MBT's development because the range practically triples and allows deep penetration operations that an 80-100 mile offroad range wouldn't make possible.  That's just me, though.

So okay, conscription for the Mriyans and a Songun style military supremacy in society.  I'll go with four year active service and six years in the reserves, so you're technically part of the military until you're 27 unless you got a deferment somehow.  I'm taking in around 80% of the male 17 year olds and 25-30% of the female 17 year olds.  Deferred entry probably accounts for another 10% of the male population.  The remaining 10% are physically exempt or politically unreliable, and will generally find life more difficult not having been accepted into the military.  The stigma of not serving is mostly a male thing; women who volunteer or get conscripted are respected but the gulf between civilian and veteran isn't so big for them.

"Shchyt Batʹkivshchyny"/"Sokoku no Tate" (Shield of the Motherland) I Corps
  "Bozhe Oko"/"Kami no Me" (God's Eye) Headquarters & Headquarters Company
  "Spys"/"Yari" (Spear) 1st Composite Division
    "Bilyy Kinʹ"/"Hakuba" (White Horse) 3rd Combined Arms Brigade (Otselot x138, Hepard x42, Pavuk x24, Karakal x9)
    "Chervonyy Kinʹ"/"Aka Uma" (Red Horse) 4th Combined Arms Brigade (Otselot x138, Hepard x42, Pavuk x24, Karakal x9)
    "Diamantovi Sobaky"/"Daiya no Inu" (Diamond Dogs) 7th Mobile Infantry Brigade (Karakal x171, Pavuk x12)
    "Zalizni Kozaky"/"Tetsu no Kosakku" (Iron Cossacks) 6th Tank Battalion (Otselot x5, Hepard x42)
    "Vohnyana Strily"/"Hiya" (Fire Arrows) 1st Artillery Brigade (M-68 x36, RV-42 Doszcz x18)
    "Nebesni Vovky"/"Sora no Oukami" (Sky Wolves) 1st Aviation Brigade (MPP-6 x90, MPP-12 x30)
    "Bezsmertni"/"Fumetsu no mono-tachi" (Immortals) 1st Engineer Battalion
    "Zolotyy Plashch"/"Kin no Manto" (Gold Cloak) 1st Divisional Protection Brigade (Otselot x6, Karakal x36)
    "Holodnyy Vovk"/"Ueta Oukami" (Hungry Wolf) 1st Divisional Sustainment Brigade
  "Shablya"/"Seibaa" (Saber) 2nd Composite Division
    "Chornyy Kinʹ"/"Kuro Uma" (Black Horse) 5th Combined Arms Brigade (Otselot x138, Hepard x42, Pavuk x24, Karakal x9)
    "Blidyy Kinʹ"/"Aojiroi Uma" (Pale Horse) 6th Combined Arms Brigade (Otselot x138, Hepard x42, Pavuk x24, Karakal x9)
    "Voyiny"/"Senshi" (Warriors) 2nd Mobile Infantry Brigade (Karakal x171, Pavuk x12)
    "Kirasyry"/"Munayoroi Kihei" (Cuirassiers) 5th Tank Battalion (Otselot x5, Hepard x42)
    "Stalevyy Hrim"/"Kotetsu no Kaminari" (Steel Thunder) 2nd Artillery Brigade (M-68 x36, RV-42 Doszcz x18)
    "Tugarin Zmeyevich" (Tugarin Zmeyevich) 2nd Aviation Brigade (MPP-6 x90, MPP-12 x30)
    "Kuvalda"/"Outsuchi" (Sledgehammer) 2nd Engineer Battalion
    "Chornyy Plashch"/"Kuro no Manto" (Black Cloak) 2nd Protection Brigade (Otselot x6, Karakal x36)
    "Bila Vorona"/"Kuroi hitsuji" (White Crow) 2nd Division Sustainment Brigade
  "Kyndzhal"/"Tanto" (Dagger) 3rd Infantry Division
    "Khloptsi Viyny"/"Sensou Otoko" (War Boys) 10th Mobile Infantry Brigade (Karakal x171, Pavuk x12)
    "Krylati Choboty"/"Tsubasa no Buutsu" (Winged Boots) 8th Light Infantry Brigade (Pavuk x12)
    "Krovi Mamba"/"Chi Manba" (Blood Mamba) 14th Light Infantry Brigade (Pavuk x12)
    "Boyovyy Slon"/"Sen Zou" (War Elephant) 8th Tank Battalion (Otselot x5, Hepard x42)
    "Koroli Bytvy"/"Tatakai no Ou" (Kings of Battle) 3rd Artillery Brigade (M102 x36, RV-42 Doszcz x18)
    "Krylati Kobry"/"Tsubasa Kobura" (Winged Cobras) 3rd Aviation Brigade (MPP-6 x90, MPP-12 x30)
    "Chervoni Drakony"/"Aka no Ryuu" (Red Dragons) 3rd Engineer Battalion
    "Bilyy Plashch"/"Shiro no Manto" (White Cloak) 3rd Protection Brigade (Otselot x6, Karakal x36)
    "Stalevi Vahony"/"Kotetsu no Kasha" (Steel Wagons) 3rd Division Sustainment Brigade
  "Chornyy Nosorih"/"Kurosai" (Black Rhino) 1st Armored Cavalry Regiment (Otselot x105, Hepard x72, MPP-6 x24, Karakal x12, M-68 x18)
  "Slemery"/"Suramaazu" (Slammers) 16th Artillery Brigade (72 M-68)
  "Bronza"/"Buronzu" (Bronze) 9th Military Police Brigade
  "Hadyuky"/"Dokuhebi" (Vipers) 11th Medical Brigade
  "Skazheni Lysytsi"/"Kyoukenbyou Kitsune" (Rabid Foxes) 12th Engineer Brigade
  "Chornyy Koty"/"Kuro Neko" (Black Cats) 13th Sustainment Brigade
  "Shchury Pusteli"/"Sabako no Nezumi" (Desert Rats) 15th Military Intelligence Brigade
  "Marodery Moroza"/"Morozu no Ryakudatsusha" (Moroz's Marauders) Special Operations Battalion (Pavuk x54)
  "Spets-hrupa Monstr"/"Tokushu Shuudan Youkai" (Special Group Youkai) Special Operations Aviation Battalion (MPP-12 x36)

Total Vehicles
Otselot IFV: 690
Hepard Light Tank: 366
Karakal Squad Mobility Vehicle: 669
Pavuk Fast Scout Vehicle: 204
M-68 Artillery: 162
M102 Artillery: 36
RV-42 Doszcz Artillery: 54
MPP-6 Helicopter: 294
MPP-12 Helicopter: 126

The Black Rhino ACR follows the lead of the real world Blackhorse and acts as a training OPFOR for the other brigades.  I figure if I was going to have a division in miniature, I might as well go all the way and use them as the "good guys" to practice against.  The 2520 military was pretty smashed, and rebuilding took most of the intervening seven years - at around ten vehicles per month per factory, I've got just enough time to bring things to the current level by 2530.  Future plans would have seen the Blood Mamba and Winged Boots brigades transition to Combined Arms Brigades, making all three divisions the same organization.  The Tsar and Tsarina artillery systems are also in development with the intent to replace the M-68s in the Slammers brigade, but they won't make it to production until 2532 - by which time the factory is likely to be a crater.

Oh well, the best laid plans of mice and men and all that.  At least I still have my Four Horsemen brigades, even if they're broken up into two different divisions.  The War Boys and Bronze brigades are both Mad Max shoutouts, and the Slammers brigade is pretty obvious.  The Diamond Dogs brigade is actually headquartered at a fort next to the diamond mine; it's where they got their name.  Their military responsibility is keeping that mine open and running, and providing protection to it in case anyone tries to take it away again.  I Corps name seemed appropriately political sounding, I was originally thinking Shield of the Throne but Motherland felt more patriotic.

It's pretty impressive what you can do when you go from volunteers and start inducting people under force of law.  Also, coming up with unit names is hard, when you're trying not to copy real world units.  I probably still did by accident, but I'll live with it.

EDIT

Hey F16, idle thought on the weapons list for the Fringe.  You have the GM/ADL missile launcher at half a ton for the basic launcher package, which is a lot heavier than a GM/M TOW system at 200kg.  Considering the ADL missile is basically a Stinger, would it be reasonable to chop that weight down some?  It'd make it easier to make a Karakal Avenger analogue, and give it a fire control system to allow proper missile ranges to be used.  According to Wikipedia, the Avenger weighs 3900kg, which is in line with the gross weight of the regular Humvee.  Even the empty curb weight is still 2700kg...and I'm trying to keep the Karakal's weight down so it can be air-transported.  2250kg is a hard limit because of the UH-1N's 5,000lb sling load capacity.    Which, idly, means a HMMWV can't be transported by a UH-1N, which is kind of a surprise.  That truck's heavier than it seems.

[Daryk]

As long as the design specs for the Tsar and Tsarina are backed up someplace OTHER than the soon to be crater, they could eventually make an appearance... :)

And if you think the HMMWV is heavy, you should see the JLTV!

https://www.motortrend.com/features/humvee-compares-to-new-oshkosh-jltv/