Brian Cache home of the 331st and the Not-Named-Clan

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Just another ‘Wolverine’ rumor.

[Stormlion1]

I always took that to mean not that they were fighting the Tetatae, but that they were fighting all the aliens we didn't see, and were the reason we would never have to worry about seeing them.

That too.

[Drewbacca]

I always took that to mean they are gone, they are never coming back and stop asking.

[RifleMech]

They're only gone until one side or the other is defeated or they join forces. Then they'll be back to take over.  ;D

[Stormlion1]

They're only gone until one side or the other is defeated or they join forces. Then they'll be back to take over.  ;D

Or the writers need a new outside threat. And the Wolverines at the head of a massive force of 10,000 Ton Supermechs with transforming Dropships and fifty mile long warships are always a possibility.  :D

[RifleMech]

 :)) :thumbsup:

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Yes but it would be much more satisfying if they came back without any fanfare or ‘newish’ technologies just SLDF+ tech, a couple of Galaxies with a military family like atmosphere, and just sucker punch some big bad guy in the face (like Malvina or the Home Clans) and be like ‘we’re here: deal with it. Nicky K was a psychopath. K? Thanks Bye well be over here chillin’.

[RifleMech]

Yes but it would be much more satisfying if they came back without any fanfare or ‘newish’ technologies just SLDF+ tech, a couple of Galaxies with a military family like atmosphere, and just sucker punch some big bad guy in the face (like Malvina or the Home Clans) and be like ‘we’re here: deal with it. Nicky K was a psychopath. K? Thanks Bye well be over here chillin’.

Sounds like fun  :) I'd love to see Malvina or the Home Clans smacked by the Wolverines but after a couple hundred years they should have developed some new tech of their own.

[Mendrugo]

I see an outside chance of the Wolverines playing some role in the 3250 setting.  With the ilClan running the Third League, perhaps an outside force might serve as a catalyst for a new rebellion against ilClan dominion.  (Sort of a "District 13 in the Hunger Games" situation.) 

There's circumstantial evidence that the Wolverines are hiding within the Magistracy of Canopus in the years between the Jihad and the Dark Age, so the "southern" aspect of the Inner Sphere might be the focus of rebel activity in 3250, if the writers go with that potential.

[RifleMech]

Sounds fun. :)   Of course now I'm wanting rules for Third League Tech and stats for the UrbieLAM. ;D

[HABeas2]

I see an outside chance of the Wolverines playing some role in the 3250 setting.  With the ilClan running the Third League, perhaps an outside force might serve as a catalyst for a new rebellion against ilClan dominion.  (Sort of a "District 13 in the Hunger Games" situation.) 

Dear Cat, I hope they don't do that, but given at least one of their novelists... *shudder*

- Herb

[Stormlion1]

Honestly I like the idea of the Wolverines becoming the boogeymen of the Clans after the 3150's no matter which Clan takes Terra. Imagine if each Clan gets hit with terrorist attacks by both guerillas and Battlemechs all identifying themselves as the Wolverines. Destroying depots, conducting sabotage, assassinations. Something to drive every Clan crazy trying to track down and destroy.

Sort of like this one movie I enjoy...

[HABeas2]

The Homeworld Clans would fit that bill just as well, and nobody would even be able to argue that they don't exist anymore.

- Herb

[Kit deSummersville]

The Homeworld Clans would fit that bill just as well, and nobody would even be able to argue that they don't exist anymore.

- Herb

Nobody? Have you met the internet?  8)

[Talen5000]

Honestly I like the idea of the Wolverines becoming the boogeymen of the Clans after the 3150's no matter which Clan takes Terra. Imagine if each Clan gets hit with terrorist attacks by both guerillas and Battlemechs all identifying themselves as the Wolverines. Destroying depots, conducting sabotage, assassinations. Something to drive every Clan crazy trying to track down and destroy.

Sort of like this one movie I enjoy...

I do not believe the Wolverines will EVER make a reappearance.
There is simply no way anyone could ever create a story or scenario that would please everyone. Or a majority. Or even a majority of a minority.

There is simply too much contradictory information about them and everyone has their favourite theory.

I've made no secret of mine....McEvedy made a power grab. McEvedy failed. McEvedy ran.

Maybe she did it for good reasons. Maybe selfish. But that story fits in with most of the available information while BoI can be portrayed as canon...in that it is a canon depiction of the Society story, the book they released to stir up the lower castes. It may even have some degree of truth in it.

But generally speaking, if I have to choose which information is going to be declared "false", I'm going to choose to invalidate the least amount of information.

Not to mention, I believe the failed coup idea gives the Wolverines far more personality and story potential.

But others are going to feel differently.

As for THIS specific idea....first, a bogeyman for the Clans doesn't require the Wolverines. As stated, the Homeworld Clans would work just as well, and bring in already developed factions that need exposure.

Secondly, this storyline has arguably already been used. The Bears were duped into the Jihad by linking them with the Wolverines. A false flag operation would work just as well as the real thing, but has been used.

[RifleMech]

I think if the story were good enough people would like it, even if it wasn't what they were expecting. I also don't think canon will change people's own versions. They'll continue to incorporate the parts of canon that they like into their own personal alternative universes.

I also think that the Wolverines work as the bogeyman for not just the IS Clans and the Home Clans but the IS and Periphery as well. All the Clans because they've been the bogeyman for this long it isn't going to stop. They'd also be a bogeyman for the IS and Periphery because of the Minnesota Tribe's raids in the DC and all speculation about them over the centuries. I think if the Wolverines did make an appearance there'd be shock waves across not just the IS but also the Periphery and Home Worlds. Not only would it be the fact that they're still alive and in shape to fight, presumably, but no one knows who's side the Wolverines would come out on. Clan, IS, Comstar, their own?

Really, I think just finding conclusive proof of their remains on some deep periphery world would be a shock to everyone. Finding them alive even more so. Them coming into known space (IS, Periphery, Clan Home Worlds) armed and ready to fight, and alarm bells would start sounding.

[HABeas2]

Nobody? Have you met the internet?  8)

I try not to these days....

- Herb

[Gaiiten]

The Homeworld Clans would fit that bill just as well, and nobody would even be able to argue that they don't exist anymore.

- Herb

The Homeworld Clans would be a far more reasonable idea for this.

And if they still exist ... well ... the missing of evidence does not mean that there is no evidence here, is not it?

[Tyler Jorgensson]

@Talen5000: Out of curiosity how exactly did McEvedy make a power grab? I’m not quite sure what your reasoning is for that. Just curious.

[jimdigris]

I've made no secret of mine....McEvedy made a power grab. McEvedy failed. McEvedy ran.

According to the fiction, the Wolverines were out-performing everyone else because they did not adhere to Nicholas's methods as much as everyone else.  He decided to make an example of them because their success made him look ineffective.

[RifleMech]

That's not really a power grab though. That's being better than the others.

[Stormlion1]

Nicky K initially approved of the Wolverines performance until he learned of the cross-caste movement within the Clan.

[Talen5000]

I think if the story were good enough people would like it

Some people will like it, but many - even if they like it - would still be disappointed.
More to the point, there isn't any story CGL can do that would justify the "buildup" people have. Whether they are dead an buried, fighting aliens, fleeing the Clan tryanny in a ratg tag fleet or whatever, I do not believe any story would be worth 30 years of buildup and mystery. Best to leave them AS a mystery. It is the same situation as aliens - there isn't anything the Wolverines could bring to the game or universe that an existing faction could not do better.

They'd also be a bogeyman for the IS and Periphery because of the Minnesota Tribe's raids in the DC and all speculation about them over the centuries.

Speculation which looks to have been hijacked by the WoB as a cover, by Uncle Chandy to get the Clans involved in the Jihad and so on.

[RifleMech]

Some people will like it, but many - even if they like it - would still be disappointed.
More to the point, there isn't any story CGL can do that would justify the "buildup" people have. Whether they are dead an buried, fighting aliens, fleeing the Clan tryanny in a ratg tag fleet or whatever, I do not believe any story would be worth 30 years of buildup and mystery. Best to leave them AS a mystery. It is the same situation as aliens - there isn't anything the Wolverines could bring to the game or universe that an existing faction could not do better.

I think it's the build up more than the quality of the story that would disappoint people. And I think it's not so much disappointment but more wondering, "Now what what?". Like finishing a long movie/TV/book or whatever series. You loved it but now that it's over you're not sure what to do. And unfortunately being the next Dread Pirate Roberts isn't an option so you're stuck until you find something else.  :(

I think it'd take a really, really good story answer the mystery of what happened to all of them. I do like keeping what happened to the majority of the Wolverines a mystery but there's still the groups that split up or got lost. I think their stories could be told. They could probably be told in a way that would generate more questions than answers.

Speculation which looks to have been hijacked by the WoB as a cover, by Uncle Chandy to get the Clans involved in the Jihad and so on.

Which would make them even more of a bogeyman. Are they Wolverines? WoB? Someone else pretending to be Wolverines or WoB?

It'd still be fun to see the Wolverines fighting with or against the Tetatae though.  ;D

[Stormlion1]

In the end, the Wolverines got the mist crucial aspect the game needs. A huge never ending conspiracy/mystery for us all to debate.

[Talen5000]

I think it's the build up more than the quality of the story that would disappoint people.

There is no story that CGL can deliver that would justify thirty years of build up and mystery. The more hints and references they dropped, the more untouchable the Wolverines became.

And I think it's not so much disappointment but more wondering, "Now what what?". Like finishing a long movie/TV/book or whatever series. You loved it but now that it's over you're not sure what to do. And unfortunately being the next Dread Pirate Roberts isn't an option so you're stuck until you find something else.  :(

CGL can always add in more mysteries. But the Wolverines was a good one.

I think it'd take a really, really good story answer the mystery of what happened to all of them. I do like keeping what happened to the majority of the Wolverines a mystery but there's still the groups that split up or got lost. I think their stories could be told. They could probably be told in a way that would generate more questions than answers.

The idea that the Wolverines split up is one of the issues with them. There weren't that many which escaped and they already knew wheer the Oasis worlds they needed for resupply were. What they needed was speed and distance. The only reasons to split the survivors would be to try and fool the Clans into thinking they were all dead. This would entail sacrificing most of the escapees and much of their supplies so a relatively handful had the chance to be overlooked - chance, becasue there was no guarantee the Clans would not continue the search. That would have had its own issues as the surving group would be unlikely to survive

It'd still be fun to see the Wolverines fighting with or against the Tetatae though.  ;D

I'm still wondering if the Tetatae could work as Genecaste.

[RifleMech]

There is no story that CGL can deliver that would justify thirty years of build up and mystery. The more hints and references they dropped, the more untouchable the Wolverines became.

I wouldn't say that there's no story but writing such a good story does get more difficult as time goes by.

CGL can always add in more mysteries. But the Wolverines was a good one.

Agreed.

The idea that the Wolverines split up is one of the issues with them. There weren't that many which escaped and they already knew wheer the Oasis worlds they needed for resupply were. What they needed was speed and distance. The only reasons to split the survivors would be to try and fool the Clans into thinking they were all dead. This would entail sacrificing most of the escapees and much of their supplies so a relatively handful had the chance to be overlooked - chance, becasue there was no guarantee the Clans would not continue the search. That would have had its own issues as the surving group would be unlikely to survive

I wouldn't say that most had to be sacrificed. I'm not sure any would need to be. But by splitting up it would keep the Clans from destroying them whole and increase the odds that some of them would survive. We also don't have reasons for why some would split off. There were a couple sent in for a recon and never came back. Were they destroyed or just going their own way, or had a special mission? Did a ship break down and not catch up. Navigation error? Went into Nebula California? Cosmic anomaly sending them to the Tetatae? All of the above?

I'm still wondering if the Tetatae could work as Genecaste.

Hmm. That could be fun!  >:D

[Tyler Jorgensson]

So while we’re hot on the topic of Clan Wolverine, I’m working on an AU basically where they win the Trial of Refusal, don’t get Annihilated, and basically go on to at least 3067 (most likely the Dark Age too but fluffs not that complete).

Anyways looking for tech ideas to fill out the Touman. I’ve developed a variety of mechs (along with a couple I want to borrow from people (PM’s incoming!) but short of everything else basically. I figured a couple Aero designs (as pointed out in my Fan Made topic a lot of SLDF refits), maybe a heavy tank or fast hovercraft striker, probably a Battle Armor Suit or two, and most likely at least one Warship (with Snow Raven support of course).

Anyways, help is appreciated: if you’ve got ideas throw them out in the Fan Forums and just point me that way and I’ll definitely take a look. Throw ideas my way too on minor changes you think would happen in ficton (course I’ll be posting my ideas in other thread). Course PM me so we don’t clog up the Brian Cache.

Thanks be in advance.

[Talen5000]

I wouldn't say that most had to be sacrificed. I'm not sure any would need to be. But by splitting up it would keep the Clans from destroying them whole and increase the odds that some of them would survive.

The Clans in the BoI version sent a multi ship multi Clan task force after them. Splitting up increased the odds some would get away, but there was never any guaranbtee the Clans would stop looking. And they didn't. If the Wolverines wanted the pursuit to stop, then they needed to convince the Clans that they were gone. That they were dead. They only way to do this was to ensure that the survivors were so small in number that the Clans would write them off as an accounting error..."We thought X survived, but it must have been X-Y". Otherwise the Clans would keep looking, keep chasing.

In story, the best way to ensure that this scenario didn't occur was to not have Barbados at all. The Wolverines are left with enough forces to survive rather than splititng up into unsustainable pocket sized forces or seeing the majority wiped out in a pointless battle. They needed speed and distance and needed to outrun the Clans pusruit force should one be sent.

Recon patrols would do nothing and serve no purpose. They had maps - they'd already traversed the Exodus Road. And settling on one of the worlds alongside the Exodus route, or elsewhere close to the Cluster, would simply delay an assault. Speed and distance were what any Wolverine survivors needed and if they were caught, they would need their remaining forces together to prevent defeat in detail. None of which argues for the way the Wolverines split their forces. Splitting the unit up into groups too small to survive solved nothing. It is simply stating that the Wolverines tried to survive by splitting up in the hopes that the Clans would find each splinter unit too small to chase...which would have been a foolish hope given what any pursuit force would be doing.

Clan Wolverine would have had two options - they could deter pursuit, or they could outrun pursuit.
With the first option, they would need to either become so big and powerful that no pursuing force could match them in battle and pull back. Wasn't going to happen, so the only choice here was to persuade any pursuers that pursuit was pointless. And the only reason the Clan and NK would conclude pursuit was pointless would be if they thought the Wolverines were indeed dead. And the only way to do that was to sacrifice the majority - to kill off most of the Clans survivors so that a small splinter group could get away. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely any such splinter group could itself be large enough to survive unless it was also large enough to draw the Clans attention. Having recon units and split forces would do nothing to assist this.

The alternative was to outrun any pursuit force. Which means keeping your fleet in one spot, and jumping as quickly and as often as you can without indulging yourself in pointless recon. The Wolverines knew where the food worlds were and had prepared for their Exodus so had supplies.

[RifleMech]

Actually, splitting the fleet up is what saved some of the Wolverines and not all Wolverine ships were in the fleet. Kerensky also only split the fleet into two. One to protect the home worlds and the other to search for the Wolverines. It was not splitting them more that allowed them to overwhelm the Wolverine forces at Barbados If Kerensky had split his forces more the Wolverines might have won against whatever forces found them. As it were they still did a lot of damage.

And the Recon ships were to let the other ships know if it was safe to jump into a system. Unfortunately, they didn't get enough warning. Plus Franklin had given Trish conflicting orders or she might have been able to shift the odds. Regardless, whether it ended there or another planet once the main Wolverine force was destroyed Kerensky declared an end to things. The Annihilation was over.