Author Topic: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa  (Read 15451 times)

wantec

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‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« on: 05 April 2016, 06:36:51 »
‘Mech of the Week: Ursa


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This week ‘Mech of the Week is reviewing another cross-over ‘Mech design, one that appeared in MechWarrior: Dark Age first and then later in a BattleTech product. I will cover the MWDA aspect more later, but first let’s take a closer look at this ‘Mech.

The Ursa is a 65 ton quad ‘Mech made by TharHes Industries on Tharkad. Looking at the MUL we find the base URA-2A made its debut in 3122, a mere year after Assault Tech Industries’ Jaguar debuted. Whether this was a result of an LCAF push for quad ‘Mech designs or not is unknown, but both designs have thrived.

Going the high-tech route, the Ursa makes use of an XL engine, endo-steel structure, MASC, and X-Pulse Lasers. This gives it a speed of 5/8(10), decent speed for a Heavy Quad. The armor is 86% of maximum, with 23 points on each leg and side torso, 29 points on the center torso, and a 7/10/7 pattern across the rear armor. Like the Scourge, the Ursa features a long range punch with some short-range punch for those who get too close. Its little wonder why the two designs are frequently partnered together in battle and on raiding missions.

For weapons it carries an ER PPC, a RAC/2 (with a single ton of ammo), and a quartet of Medium X-Pulse Lasers. When paired with a larger weapon, I like the RAC/2 for its ability to crit-seek at longer ranges. Since this is a quad, with its limited arcs of fire, I prefer to keep the enemy at range, but if someone gets too close, the X-Pulse Lasers will help them reconsider repeating the move. A total of 13 double heat sinks are ideal for bracket-fire, and it runs cool (-3 heat on a run and full-rate RAC) at longer ranges.

Some might want to compare the Ursa to the Balius, another quad which shares the same tonnage. However, that is a bad comparison, despite the similarities, due to their different usage. A Balius is designed for zellbrigen, honorable Clan-style combat, in one-on-one duels. As an initially hand-build ‘Mech, the Balius would only be given to the best warriors, who would be able to fight effectively at long range. On the other hand, the Ursa is found in the LCAF and among mercenaries who have no qualms about double-teaming a target or even directing a whole lance on a single enemy. Often they face enemies who do the same, so having an ally to cover a quad’s vulnerable flanks is of little concern. Similarly, the Ursa can take advantage of its size and MASC-enhanced speed to deliver hard-hitting charge attacks, something that earned it the nickname “Rhino” among some pilots.

In battle I would find a nice place to park and go hull-down at long range as the battle began. Once things got closer, I would send the Ursa rushing in for a charge or a close X-Pulse shot before sweeping off to turn and make another pass.

Ursa URA-2C variant
This variant was released 3 years after the original and is an almost direct Clan-tech rebuild. The chassis, engine, armor, RAC, ER PPC, and MASC are all replaced with the Clan version. With the extra tonnage saved from the ER PPC a 14th double heat sink is added. The X-Pulse Lasers are traded for ER Medium Pulse Lasers, greatly increasing the reach. The ER Pulses have the same medium range (9 hexes) as the X-Pulses have long range. This opens up the range brackets allowing more options for weapons fire.

While it’s nowhere to be found in the TRO, my personal belief is the -2C was the planned design all along. The -2A could be used for testing the basics of the design, providing a cheaper version for wider sales, and generating income for the equipment and machinery needed for the Clan-tech versions. In the end, the -2A works well on its own and the -2C is just better. This can be seen pretty clearly in the Alpha Strike stats. Both versions are the same, except the -2C adds 1 point of damage to each range bracket, 1 point of structure, CASE, and 5 more PV. My only real wish on either version would be for a Supercharger for the extra burst of speed and the ability to alternate between it and the MASC.


The MWDA version is a bit different from the TW version. It first appeared in the Age of Destruction expansion set. This set was in some ways a reboot of the game. The rules were modified in many areas, pilot & gear cards were introduced, and quad ‘Mechs were introduced to the game. There was a unique version of the Ursa, “Prowler”, run by a Merc pilot, Phuong Trahn (who happens to be the notable pilot in the print TRO3145). My memory claims this version and its unique pilot could be obtained as a part of some kind of mail-in or similar give-away, but I can’t seem to evidence of that in my records.

As a Heavy ‘Mech it was pretty lackluster, the attack, damage, defense values and weapon ranges weren’t very good. The speed was average and not enough to compensate for its deficits (in my experiences). There were non-unique versions for the Highlanders, Jade Falcons, Stormhammers, and House Steiner. Each one was slightly different (intending to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each faction as well as different variants). Personally I like the Highlander and Jade Falcon versions, which had hardened armor (Highlanders) and equipment that made it harder to hit (Jade Falcons) as well as better defensive values than the unique version.

When the set designers for MWDA were designing their ‘Mechs, they usually began by building the ‘Mech using pre-Total Warfare weapons and equipment and using that as a base for their version. Sometimes that resulted in ‘Mechs that were good or great in MWDA, but not so good on a recordsheet. This created a tough challenge when it came time to translate those MWDA units back into interesting, playable units in Total Warfare. This is one of the few cases where I am more excited over the TW version than the MWDA version. Whether it’s under TW rules or Alpha Strike, I would gladly use either version of Ursa.
« Last Edit: 05 April 2016, 08:30:45 by wantec »
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #1 on: 05 April 2016, 08:23:13 »
Ah, nice review. Though i would suggest noting the speed in the article: 5/8(10) courtesy of VOX 325-XLFE.
Extra points for covering the Age of Destruction 'Mech as well.

I'm not a big fan of quads but i do like several ClickyTech quads because they actually look good. The Ursa, Thunder Fox, Jaguar, Stalking Spider (III?) all look superb, unlike some oldies like Sirocco and Scorpion.

I have the Highlander Clicky-Ursa. It occurs to me that it might make an interesting variant, with extra armor and some gun with armor piercing capabilities (err, basically standard/light AC or SRMs). No doubt we will eventually get more variants for 'Mechs in TROs 3145-3150.

All in all, the normal Battletech version of Ursa seems pretty good cavalry design. Not a stellar damage output (10 points plus some clusters at range) but probably works well in teams.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #2 on: 05 April 2016, 09:28:52 »
I saw the Ursus in TRO3145 and always thought it looked interesting, really nice review on a beefy mech, sure you get the drawbacks of the quad's limited arcs but its mobile enough to not have them exploited, and when all else fails, charge!  Great stuff!
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Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #3 on: 05 April 2016, 09:35:08 »
I bet the Ghost Bears are miffed they didn't make this 'Mech. The name's better suited to a GB 'Mech than a Steiner one...
Rhino on the other hand sounds very Steiner.

Phobos

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #4 on: 05 April 2016, 13:02:03 »
Never liked it. Especially the legs look very strange, the weapons choice seems mediocre at best and there were also a few questionably placed crits, at least with the original variant. Another reason for disliking it is the fact that TharHes Industries is able to manufacture a mech with 100% Clan tech base virtually out of the blue. No explanation is given in the fluff. It's difficult to swallow, considering that in comparison DI's premier mech Zeus X is still just a soddy old IS tech mech (which is even more weird when you consider XTRO Steiner showed DI as one of the frontrunners in adapting Clan tech to production-grade levels). Of course I don't have an issue with the Zeus X not having Clan tech (couldn't care less from the Lyran point of view as I mostly play against them  ;)), I'm just annoyed by the feeling that the whole issue seems so arbitrary, especially when you look at what TPTB did with Davion where you have a natural progression from XTRO Davion to TRO 3145 FedSuns.
« Last Edit: 05 April 2016, 13:38:58 by Phobos »

Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #5 on: 05 April 2016, 13:28:49 »
The Lyrans have, as i understand it, capability to manufacture Clan-tech, if not quite as much as the FedSuns.
But they have allies in the Kell Hounds and Clan Wolf-in-Exile. Between those and the Clan Sea Fox selling stuff, putting together a full Clan-spec 'Mech is certainly possible. The Master Unit List gives a clear answer to this in the availability tables: The URA-2C is available to Clan Wolf-in-Exile, and is almost certainly their variant, probably manufactured in Arc-Royal (under license and agreement to sell to Lyran Commonwealth, perhaps). It is no different from the Mangonel MNL-3W really (standard Mangonel is pure IS tech).

I would assume it is relatively rare variant though.

Phobos

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #6 on: 05 April 2016, 13:36:12 »
The URA-2C is available to Clan Wolf-in-Exile, and is almost certainly their variant, probably manufactured in Arc-Royal

That would make more sense, I guess, as Arc-Royal most defintely has the capability of producing 100% Clan tech base units by 3132, even Arc-Royal Mechworks, from what I've gathered from the Steiner DA TRO. But producing it on Tharkad would seem implausible in many ways.

That leaves the poor Lyrans with the horrible standard model  ;D (you might disagree on the 'horrible' ofc).

Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #7 on: 05 April 2016, 13:42:05 »
Production location info in BT is rather sparse.
I would assume assembling a Clan-spec machine is far easier that producing the components. If Sea Foxes and Exiles ship stuff to Tharkad, along with whatever little local production there is, they could be assembling URA-2Cs in Tharkad at a slow pace.

Just because the FedSuns do not produce full Clan-spec 'Mech doesn't mean they can't, it is more likely they just prefer using Clan-spec components in mostly IS-designs for efficiency. (IIRC, the Dracs have a full Clan-spec factory in Luthien now, taken from Nova Cats.) Note how the Republic does produce mixed-tech designs rather than full Clan-spec despite having the most advanced tech in the IS.

Phobos

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #8 on: 05 April 2016, 13:59:58 »
Quote
Production location info in BT is rather sparse.
I would assume assembling a Clan-spec machine is far easier that producing the components. If Sea Foxes and Exiles ship stuff to Tharkad, along with whatever little local production there is, they could be assembling URA-2Cs in Tharkad at a slow pace.

See, it would have been logical to cover such an issue in the fluff, wouldn't it? Cause as you rightly point out, the Ursa is indeed not produced on Arc-Royal as well, as I first thought after reading your remark about the MUL and the Exiles.

Empyrus

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #9 on: 05 April 2016, 14:04:20 »
Limited word-counts on TROs... I will say i'd prefer to read about production, logistics, 'Mech availability and 'Mech capabilities and details than battle history but alas, that is not what we got.
But fortunately we can construct reasonable assumptions with MUL and what little data we have, so it is not all bad. It isn't like the 'Mech's a complete ghost that simply appears without any data relating to its origins and deployment.

wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #10 on: 05 April 2016, 14:23:24 »
Production location info in BT is rather sparse.
I would assume assembling a Clan-spec machine is far easier that producing the components. If Sea Foxes and Exiles ship stuff to Tharkad, along with whatever little local production there is, they could be assembling URA-2Cs in Tharkad at a slow pace.

Just because the FedSuns do not produce full Clan-spec 'Mech doesn't mean they can't, it is more likely they just prefer using Clan-spec components in mostly IS-designs for efficiency. (IIRC, the Dracs have a full Clan-spec factory in Luthien now, taken from Nova Cats.) Note how the Republic does produce mixed-tech designs rather than full Clan-spec despite having the most advanced tech in the IS.
The Jackalope and Roadrunner would disagree with you. All the Houses (and the Republic) have the ability to manufacture Clan-tech. How much they manufacture and put into regular use depends on each nation's financial status and priorities.

Now that's not to say the Kell Hounds, Exiles, Foxes, etc didn't help (I'm not sure either way), but my guess is that someone wanted all that equipment and skills to be invested in a company on Tharkad where they could keep a closer eye on things.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #11 on: 05 April 2016, 19:10:38 »
It might just be a matter of throwing money at the problem.
Knowing the Lyrans, you probably can't even see it anymore under all the bills.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #12 on: 06 April 2016, 00:34:05 »
The Ursa isn't a 'bad' design but it doesn't really stand out ether.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #13 on: 06 April 2016, 04:09:52 »
You know . . . this actually is pretty close to the White Flame, just dropped 5t and lost the WoB specific gear for some more BANG while getting a bit more vulnerable on the engine.  I was hoping the Jaguar fluff WOULD be a Warden Wolf rebuild of one of the flames, but the -2C here gets pretty close.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #14 on: 06 April 2016, 06:31:58 »
You know . . . this actually is pretty close to the White Flame, just dropped 5t and lost the WoB specific gear for some more BANG while getting a bit more vulnerable on the engine.  I was hoping the Jaguar fluff WOULD be a Warden Wolf rebuild of one of the flames, but the -2C here gets pretty close.
TharHes might have used the flames an example of what does & doesn't work in quads, but both the Ursa and the Jaguar are new builds.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #15 on: 06 April 2016, 07:18:18 »
Never liked it. Especially the legs look very strange, the weapons choice seems mediocre at best and there were also a few questionably placed crits, at least with the original variant. Another reason for disliking it is the fact that TharHes Industries is able to manufacture a mech with 100% Clan tech base virtually out of the blue. No explanation is given in the fluff. It's difficult to swallow, considering that in comparison DI's premier mech Zeus X is still just a soddy old IS tech mech (which is even more weird when you consider XTRO Steiner showed DI as one of the frontrunners in adapting Clan tech to production-grade levels). Of course I don't have an issue with the Zeus X not having Clan tech (couldn't care less from the Lyran point of view as I mostly play against them  ;)), I'm just annoyed by the feeling that the whole issue seems so arbitrary, especially when you look at what TPTB did with Davion where you have a natural progression from XTRO Davion to TRO 3145 FedSuns.

I would explain it by saying that Defiance has invested lots of money and time in their factories to produce "soddy old IS tech", whereas TharHes has less "legacy equipment" to replace. So it's not that DI can't do it, just that replacing the tools to make the Clan-spec stuff is expensive and time-consuming.

The Ursa is kind of an odd duck for me. I just can't get excited about it for some reason.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #16 on: 06 April 2016, 16:43:48 »
TharHes might have used the flames an example of what does & doesn't work in quads, but both the Ursa and the Jaguar are new builds.

They may be new builds, but even the overall shapes are similar enough that you wonder where some of the engineers might have come from.......

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #17 on: 06 April 2016, 17:00:51 »
TharHes might have used the flames an example of what does & doesn't work in quads

We're talking about the company that birthed the Barghest... The Barghest eats Flames for lunch, blue or white.

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #18 on: 06 April 2016, 17:17:30 »
Which maybe true, but the Ursa load looks a lot more like the first White Flame than the Barghest.

Do not get me wrong, I like the Barghest and laugh every time I see my wife's HGR Barghest she painted up like her terrier.  What we do not talk about is the one armor location attracting all incoming fire until her HGR was TAC'd.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #19 on: 06 April 2016, 21:30:20 »
When we first saw this mech, one of the guys in my gaming group said that it looked like a heavily armed potato.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #20 on: 06 April 2016, 21:48:10 »
With all of this talk of the Barghest, I'm surprised no one has mentioned how well they syncronize together.
The Barghest brings some ranged firepower and a high damage short-ranged deterrent no matter its config, while the Ursa compounds on that by bringing a ranged critseeker and heavy anti-light firepower.

On its own, the Ursa is somewhat unimpressive. With a Barghest? Works well enough. The MASC is still dangerous and I don't like how it bloats BV, but them's the breaks.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #21 on: 07 April 2016, 08:25:40 »
Actually, the Ursa kinda reminds me of a ZAFT BuCUE from MS Gundam SEED/SEED Destiny (just without the tread assemblies).
Granted the image in the link has a large missile launcher, but there is a version with two energy cannons as well (I have a  figure of that version).
« Last Edit: 07 April 2016, 08:33:24 by Tymers Realm »

wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #22 on: 07 April 2016, 08:40:15 »
With all of this talk of the Barghest, I'm surprised no one has mentioned how well they syncronize together.
The Barghest brings some ranged firepower and a high damage short-ranged deterrent no matter its config, while the Ursa compounds on that by bringing a ranged critseeker and heavy anti-light firepower.

On its own, the Ursa is somewhat unimpressive. With a Barghest? Works well enough. The MASC is still dangerous and I don't like how it bloats BV, but them's the breaks.
True, but neither can cover the other Quad very well. They still need an ally that can torso twist and cover what their limited arcs can't cover. Unfortunately, TharHes doesn't even make something that would work well to cover it from enemy fast movers. TharHes builds the Wolfhound, Falconer, Bushwacker, Barghest, Fenrir, Fenrir II, and Rottweiler. The best bets are the Fenrir with either a MPL or twin SPLs, but with a move of only 4 hexes, the BA will have trouble keeping up. The Ursa and the Barghest -7S have lots of pulse lasers, but their arcs of fire are limited. There's a Bushwacker with a pair of MPLs, but I can't tell from the TRO how common it is.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #23 on: 07 April 2016, 11:23:46 »
The best bets are the Fenrir with either a MPL or twin SPLs, but with a move of only 4 hexes, the BA will have trouble keeping up.

Not an issue. Between the BA's ability to use Fast Movement and their not paying for facing changes, suits that fast have no issue keeping up with even 5/8 mechs that aren't going flat-out in a straight line. They may end up slightly behind the mechs by the time forces get in close, but that's where you want them anyway, to counter side and rear attacks.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #24 on: 07 April 2016, 12:08:27 »
I think Fenrirs are superb suits to play backscratcher.
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wantec

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #25 on: 07 April 2016, 12:15:20 »
Maybe it's my own lack of moderate BA use, I didn't think they'd be able to keep up. If it were the Rottweilers which move 5 hexes, no problems most of the time when I run a 5/8 'Mech I try to get 5 hexes moved, but I get the feeling that the Fenrirs will get left behind initially, possibly even out of range. But, I will yield to someone with more BA use experience.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #26 on: 07 April 2016, 12:31:18 »
Fenrir I think are 4 move . . . which means you can tactically keep them sort of together.

I thought one of the Barghest had a turret though?  About the only thing I could see making a Ursa better would be some of those XPulse in a turret . . . oh and Supercharger/TSM rather than MASC.
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #27 on: 07 April 2016, 12:40:21 »
Fenrir I think are 4 move . . . which means you can tactically keep them sort of together.

I thought one of the Barghest had a turret though?  About the only thing I could see making a Ursa better would be some of those XPulse in a turret . . . oh and Supercharger/TSM rather than MASC.

Yeah, but it's a pair of light PPCs if I recall- and if I'm driving something like a Dragonfly or Spider, I'll gladly brave that pair of guns to get in some good side-hits and avoid the iHGR up front. (Hell, I'll chew aluminum foil for the GM if it means not getting one of those slugs crammed into my Mech's leg.)
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #28 on: 07 April 2016, 13:15:55 »
Yeah, those are minor . . .

But we are not talking about a time when companies and battalions are all the same mech . . . so having a Ursa, two HGR Barghest 3T and say something like a Nightsky or Uziel 8S- the classic direct fire support with a body guard set up.  Actually JHB, quick look that experiemental Barghest with the turret mounted light PPCs replaced them with a ERLL and ERML supporting that iHGR, the -4T.  I would still prefer something with pulse or ER/TC for the bodyguard on a biped though . . .
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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #29 on: 07 April 2016, 14:17:37 »
Yeah, but it's a pair of light PPCs if I recall- and if I'm driving something like a Dragonfly or Spider, I'll gladly brave that pair of guns to get in some good side-hits and avoid the iHGR up front. (Hell, I'll chew aluminum foil for the GM if it means not getting one of those slugs crammed into my Mech's leg.)

Barghest 4T has a turret with an ER Large Laser, and an ER Medium.... works great.
Sorry, Colt Ward, responded before I saw your post ..... although I do agree that 3 medium pulse lasers might have been more useful in some situations

Nahuris
« Last Edit: 07 April 2016, 14:25:17 by Nahuris »
"A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a BEST friend will skip along beside you with a baseball bat singing "someone's gonna get it."

"If we are ever in a situation, where I am the voice of reason, we are in a very bad situation."

GreekFire

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #30 on: 07 April 2016, 19:34:26 »
True, but neither can cover the other Quad very well. They still need an ally that can torso twist and cover what their limited arcs can't cover.

Yeah, that's true. I have seen it work out pretty decently, mostly when combined with BA as suggested, but you gotta watch those arcs.

I still feel like it's a support 'Mech though. I dunno, I haven't been a fan of it so far. I might have to play around with it some more.



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Nahuris

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #31 on: 13 April 2016, 17:40:50 »
The more I look at this design, the more similarities I see with the White Flame. There are more similarities here, than the Thunder Fox has with the Blue Flame, which, per the fluff, it was designed off of......

Beginning to wonder how many of the houses have their own Project Paperclip operations going, after the Jihad.

Nahuris
"A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a BEST friend will skip along beside you with a baseball bat singing "someone's gonna get it."

"If we are ever in a situation, where I am the voice of reason, we are in a very bad situation."

Frogfoot

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #32 on: 13 April 2016, 19:21:13 »
Beginning to wonder how many of the houses have their own Project Paperclip operations going, after the Jihad.

Could work from the other side too: Former WoB engineers and designers joining private companies in the arms industry under alternate identities.

Nahuris

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Re: ‘Mech of the Week: Ursa
« Reply #33 on: 13 April 2016, 22:17:07 »
Could work from the other side too: Former WoB engineers and designers joining private companies in the arms industry under alternate identities.

I've assumed that some of that has HAD to have happened --- with the number of WOB people, especially ones that were not mechwarriors, etc.... it would have been easy to just melt into the populace, and wait for the call..... maybe raise your kids in the secret family knowledge, etc.


Nahuris
"A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a BEST friend will skip along beside you with a baseball bat singing "someone's gonna get it."

"If we are ever in a situation, where I am the voice of reason, we are in a very bad situation."

 

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