BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: Iron Grenadier on 16 May 2018, 04:42:03
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Hello,
The players in my group find themselves in the need to rebuild their light armor forces. Each of the four players has put forth an idea, but so far haven’t come to an agreement.
The idea’s to rebuild the light armor battalion so far – all agree to maintain the 3 lance/4 company structure.
1. Stay with hovertanks for recon and fast strike/response. Purchase Pegasus and Fulcrums
2. Purchase a lance of Galleon 102’s for each company, plus a lance of Myrmidon’s, and then keep the remaining hovertanks as is.
3. Go with Myrmidons for everything.
4. A lance each of Maxim’s to better support the infantry, a lance of Galleon’s for recon, and a lance of Fulcrums for the fast strike/response role.
What would be your thoughts on one of these idea's or something else entirely?
For reference –
This is an AU setting, but one easily recognizable. Biggest change I can think of is that Wolfs Dragoons created the AMC in 3062. Current year is 3067 and the FedCom Civil War is over.
The players are a merc unit, and are members of the AMC. AMC and WoB have been in a proxy war for 5 years.
They have one battlemech battalion (in a 4 lance companies/4 company structure, all heavies and assaults), one heavy vehicle battalion (3 lance companies/4 company), one infantry battalion (4 platoons/4 company), and an aerospace wing (24 fighters). Supporting units include artillery, air defense and a VTOL unit. They have full dropship support.
The light armor battalion that was beat up operated in a 3 lance/4 company structure. The entire unit was composed of hovertanks, of which 16 survived and are being placed back into service (Drillsons mainly).
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Combo numbers 2 and 4.
Maxim''s and Myrmidon's with your remaining hovers you have leftover.
Recon with fire support/ Infantry abilities and fast strikers.
TT
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The fast hovers work better as a hammer if they have a solid anvil to work against, like the Myrmidons. Having a combination of the two gives you a lot more flexibility than only having one tool to work with.
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Your anvil is already the mech & heavy vehicle battalions. You need the cavalry option of hovertanks- so rebuild with all hovertanks gets my vote. Not sure I would buy Fulcrums at their price tag, but whatever floats your boat- but go fast hovers.
Additionally your infantry should have their transport organic to their own formation- it avoids all sorts of command & control problems. Mechanized infantry are different than plain infantry who get told they can ride in someone else's vehicles. It comes down to training which BT is probably too abstracting them to display- basically the folks who work with the equipment every day will have the skills to operate more efficiently than the troops who do not. It is that simple.
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I agree with Colt Ward on this. I would go with Fulcrums (standard and Heavy 2) using semi-guided LRMs, as they are fast and good at recon and carry TAG. 2 lances per company, plus a lance of Drillsons (Streak models, if you have them or upgrade them) make a fairly ferocious company. Just make sure all of them have the semi-guided LRMs, and watch the explosions... **ahem** As I was saying, I think this mix will work well, but as always, YMMV.
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Since I am not aware on whether the VTOLs are capable of transporting the infantry I'd take a lance of Maxims, a lance of Pegasus/Galleons (honestly depends on how much water is an obstacle compared to more broken terrain), and a lance of of Fulcrums. I assume if they can afford a modest amount of Fulcrums then the cost of SG missiles is probably within their range as well.
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It's looking like the hovertanks will win out in some fashion. The player that has been advocating remaining with that option is wanting to explore getting Bandit hovertanks from the Dragoons. He's liking the idea of a lance each of Bandits/Fulcrums/Drillsons. But if they can't get the Bandit, then he wants at least a couple of Pegasus for each company.
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Omnis? Eh . . . one thing to consider rather than Pegasus might be the Blizzard Black- should be easier to get as its in production on Epsilon Eridani specifically for sale to the merc market though that might depend on when Ep E gets added to the Protectorate.
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Hmm I will mention that. I'm not overly familiar with it other than what I just read on Sarna.
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I'd go cheap with all Goblins, all the time. Lances would mix LRM, SRM and MG variants to carry two platoons per lance, making each essentially a combined arms company. The hover version of that uses Maxims, Saladins, and Saracens.
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I go real cheap. 2 lances of Strikers for light support and a lance of Skulkers to act as spotters.
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There was some talk about going with cheaper vehicles. Still not decided yet - we have a session coming up though where the players will be talking with several dealers (we try to alternate a role playing session with a table top session)
Then there is the matter of getting crews, and I believe they are going to try poaching from the 3rd Dismal Disinherited.
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As much as I like the idea of the hammer and anvil, I would go with the fast hovers as your mechs are the anvil.
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As much as I like the idea of the hammer and anvil, I would go with the fast hovers as your mechs are the anvil.
Yep they are staying with hovertanks. They just need to figure out what. Probably next weekend we'll find out for sure.
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The militia I built use 2 Maxims, 1 Saracen, and 1 Saladin (>:D) per "Hover Mechanized Infantry Company" (i.e., two platoons of infantry, one platoon of hover tanks).
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The militia I built use 2 Maxims, 1 Saracen, and 1 Saladin (>:D) per "Hover Mechanized Infantry Company" (i.e., two platoons of infantry, one platoon of hover tanks).
That's pretty nice, I think I might steal that. Was this from those "dirtbag militia" threads?
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That was certainly my inspiration... Here's the link to the thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50881.0)...
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That was certainly my inspiration... Here's the link to the thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50881.0)...
Ah ok I recall reading that thread now. That was some good work there!
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Thanks! It was a lot of fun to work out, too!
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Oh I like this question, its right up my Skye March alley for vehicles.
As stated Fulcrums are pricey, but the TAG is nice, so I'd use them as a Company Commander build around a Platoon of cheaper Drillsons.
Maxims for the Infantry & Myrmidons for some not so easily immobilized anvil action.
HQ Platoon, Transport Platoon, Armor Platoon for each Company. Good to Go.
Possibly a 2nd Fulcrum to lead the Maxim Platoon if you don't need a full 4 for the Infantry, or a newer tech Maxim instead w/ TAG/C3S, etc etc.
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I honestly wonder if folks read the OP . . .
They have a mech battalion
They have a heavy armor battalion
They have a infantry battalion
The light armor battalion, which had previously been all hovertanks, got trashed and is being replaced.
While I enthusiastically support infantry having integral transport and ISVs . . . its not the light armor battalion unless you are suggesting they be consolidated together rather than the light armor being reconstituted. Nor does the light armor battalion need a 'anvil' since the group already has a mech & heavy armor battalions for the anvil.
It sounds like the light armor battalion before were the 'cavalry' of this force- screen, skirmishers, and used to pin enemy forces for the heavier elements to hammer them down. Except they got caught or just had bad luck when they got stuck in. Which means IMO if you want them to be more survivors you want a long range weapon in a turret for the skirmishing- Regulators are the ideal but expensive/hard to get but you want something like them.
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It sounds like the light armor battalion before were the 'cavalry' of this force- screen, skirmishers, and used to pin enemy forces for the heavier elements to hammer them down. Except they got caught or just had bad luck when they got stuck in. Which means IMO if you want them to be more survivors you want a long range weapon in a turret for the skirmishing- Regulators are the ideal but expensive/hard to get but you want something like them.
Pretty much. In this case the unit got busted up pretty bad in a trap from some WoB forces. This is what has prompted the thinking of getting some active probe equipped tanks like the upgraded Pegasus or Galleon that had been mentioned.
The players will be sticking with an all hovertank force. I have no doubt Drillson's will be back in some numbers, they all love that tank, but filling out the rest of the unit still remains open. We just need to sit down and figure that out.
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if the rest of the unit is hovers, stick to that.
some Probe equipped Pegasus tanks would be a good idea i think.
but if you can get them, you might consider getting a few lances of Regulator's (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Regulator), which would let you give the cavalry element some decent integral firepower without sacrificing speed.
alternately, the Fulcrum Hovertank (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fulcrum) might be a better choice.. it is more available and while it lacks the heavy single hit punch of the regulator, a LL/LRM10 combo isn't bad.
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I honestly wonder if folks read the OP . . .
They have a mech battalion
They have a heavy armor battalion
They have a infantry battalion
The light armor battalion, which had previously been all hovertanks, got trashed and is being replaced.
While I enthusiastically support infantry having integral transport and ISVs . . . its not the light armor battalion unless you are suggesting they be consolidated together rather than the light armor being reconstituted. Nor does the light armor battalion need a 'anvil' since the group already has a mech & heavy armor battalions for the anvil.
It sounds like the light armor battalion before were the 'cavalry' of this force- screen, skirmishers, and used to pin enemy forces for the heavier elements to hammer them down. Except they got caught or just had bad luck when they got stuck in. Which means IMO if you want them to be more survivors you want a long range weapon in a turret for the skirmishing- Regulators are the ideal but expensive/hard to get but you want something like them.
Did you read the 4 suggestions he posted from his players Colt?
They mention Myrmidons & Maxims both as something the PLAYERS are considering.
I think everyone is going off those suggestions v/s just rebuilding the all Hover force.
If they want to change it up, they can, people are just suggesting the various units to do so.
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And the OP did specifically throw the floor open to completely different ideas:
What would be your thoughts on one of these ideas or something else entirely?
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Personally, I think I would favor the following, if trying to keep costs down:
Command Company:
Command Platoon: 4 x Drillson
Battle Platoon 1: 4 x Condor
Battle Platoon 2: 4 x Condor
Skirmish Company 1:
Battle Platoon 1: 4 x Scimitar
Battle Platoon 2: 4 x Scimitar
Recon Platoon: 4 x Pegasus
Skirmish Company 2:
Battle Platoon 1: 4 x Scimitar
Battle Platoon 2: 4 x Scimitar
Recon Platoon: 4 x Pegasus
Support Company:
LRM Support Platoon 1: 4 x Saracen
LRM Support Platoon 2: 4 x Saracen
Close Support Platoon: 4 x Saladin
If just trying to keep costs moderately down, Go with the following for all companies:
Platoons 1 and 2: 4 x Drillson
Recon Platoon: 4 x Pegasus
If not worried about keeping costs down, I'd say go with the following for all platoons:
2 x Fulcrum (Large Laser version)
2 x Fulcrum (SRM, extra medium lasers version)
Ruger
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I'd go with Saracens over Scimitars, personally. LRMs have more uses than AC/5s...
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I'd go with Saracens over Scimitars, personally. LRMs have more uses than AC/5s...
To me, the Scimitar has more character than the Saracen...all comes down to personal preference...
Ruger
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If just trying to keep costs moderately down, Go with the following for all companies:
Platoons 1 and 2: 4 x Drillson
Recon Platoon: 4 x Pegasus
Ruger
I think that's pretty close to what might happen, eventually. There will likely be some Fulcrum's in there as well.
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I'd go with Saracens over Scimitars, personally. LRMs have more uses than AC/5s...
There is a Scimitar Missile...
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2830/scimitar-medium-hover-tank-missile (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2830/scimitar-medium-hover-tank-missile)
TT
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I suppose swapping an SRM-2 for upgrading the LRM-10 to a 15 rack could work...
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Nope... other way around, out goes the AC/5 and upgrade your Launcher!
TT
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I meant trading the LRM-10 and 3 SRM-2s on the Saracen for the LRM-15 and 2 SRM-2s on the LRM Saladin... I'll have to wait until I get back to my 3026 to see where the other ton of difference is...
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I meant trading the LRM-10 and 3 SRM-2s on the Saracen for the LRM-15 and 2 SRM-2s on the LRM Saladin... I'll have to wait until I get back to my 3026 to see where the other ton of difference is...
If you mean the missile version Scimitar, the AC/5 and ammo is switched out for a LRM-15 and ammo (I'm assuming 2 tons to match the mass)...
Edit: In which case, I'd probably prefer them over Saracen's...more LRM's but one less SRM-2 and about a ton less armor...
Ruger
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Ruger~
Have you tried the Pegasus Sensor before?
I can see your Scout unit running a Pair of Pegasus, a single Sensor and a Missile variant.
Something like 7 SRM6, 2 SRM4 and 3 ML with 30 sensors...
TT
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Ruger~
Have you tried the Pegasus Sensor before?
I can see your Scout unit running a Pair of Pegasus, a single Sensor and a Missile variant.
Something like 7 SRM6, 2 SRM4 and 3 ML with 30 sensors...
TT
Nope...wasn't aware of that one...
Ruger
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Hey all, new/follow up question -
As the rebuild continues, there is the possibility of adding additional VTOL assets. Right now they have a total of 12 VTOL's (3 Pintos/3 Sprint/6 Warriors) that are more used for special missions.
What is being proposed is to add additional attack VTOL's to supplement the 4 companies of light armor. They have capacity for 12 more VTOL's, and the basic thought is to go with the Cavalry.
Good, bad idea? Include some Yellow Jackets maybe?
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What versions of the Warriors do they currently use?
If it's the C, then they've got it covered... but if their something else..
I'd go with H-10s! backed up with H-9s for gun support.
TT
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Right now they are running with modified 8's - removing the missile weapons for energy weapons, extra armor and TAG
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I am sure cannonshop will eventually weight in on his opinion of the Yellow Jacket but . . .
. . . the Hawk Moth is a better option, and the AC/5 Warrior is sufficient IMO. Especially if you are modifying them, I just swap that AC for LBX since I want to send it hunting VTOLs or vehicles . . . but it can still load a slug as needed.
Which Sprints? a few are great ELINT birds, I love them. While the Pinto mini looks awesome, and the only VTOL I have . . . its not survivable compared to other VTOL options.
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The only good Yellow Jacket is the Jihad-era PPC version which isn't available during your time frame, you'd pay for it up front (costs about as much as low-end Light 'Mechs) but fusion engine and energy weapon would save you some C-Bills on long-term campaign costs. The rest are just too slow.
If they go the Hawk Moth and have a choice, the (armor) subvariant's preferable to the standard one, since it doesn't need 32 rounds of fire anyways.
If you're modifying things, removing the Pinto's weapons for a PPC would provide a decent fire support version with minimal changes, as an alternative to either the Hawk Moth or Yellow Jacket. Alternatively, scrounging up some Cobra cargo VTOLs and retrofitting them with ERPPCs could be feasible.
The Cavalry's good. The LRM variant is more survivable since it doesn't have to get up close, though the standard variant hits harder if you're willing to get closer. Alternate ammo is a good idea for either case.
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I am sure cannonshop will eventually weight in on his opinion of the Yellow Jacket but . . .
. . . the Hawk Moth is a better option, and the AC/5 Warrior is sufficient IMO. Especially if you are modifying them, I just swap that AC for LBX since I want to send it hunting VTOLs or vehicles . . . but it can still load a slug as needed.
Which Sprints? a few are great ELINT birds, I love them. While the Pinto mini looks awesome, and the only VTOL I have . . . its not survivable compared to other VTOL options.
They got the standard Sprint, with TAG and Beagle Active Probe.
I think we completely forgot about the Hawk Moth to be honest.
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I am sure cannonshop will eventually weight in on his opinion of the Yellow Jacket but . . .
. . . the Hawk Moth is a better option, and the AC/5 Warrior is sufficient IMO. Especially if you are modifying them, I just swap that AC for LBX since I want to send it hunting VTOLs or vehicles . . . but it can still load a slug as needed.
Which Sprints? a few are great ELINT birds, I love them. While the Pinto mini looks awesome, and the only VTOL I have . . . its not survivable compared to other VTOL options.
There are two kinds of cost: acquisition cost, and upkeep cost that people look at normally. There is a third, however.
The cost of "How often are you replacing it?"
not how much it costs to replace, but how often you're going to be paying that replacement cost.
I'd personally go with the Cavalry (multiple variants) over either the Jellowbucket or the Hawk-Moth, because you'll be paying to replace it less often.
alternately, a mix of H-8's and H-10s combined with Cavalry variants and (if you can get them) Mantises. This gives you fast recon and strike with a bit of troop movement to seize objectives or emplace infantry spotters.
why? YOu've already got better hovertanks than a Yellowjacket or Hawk-Moth, and a big-gun-duel with VTOLs is kinda...pointless unless you've got a flowing logistics train full of replacement airframes and pilots already in place to make up the losses you will take for trying that.
successful VTOL usage is 'stick and move', not 'stand and deliver'.
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Eh, the Hawk Moth can cruise and use the superior range of the LGR as well as its ammo counts to avoid losses. Big thing to remember is you are talking about combined arms . . . you want your skirmishers- hovertank cavalry & VTOL snipers to nibble on the armor of anyone who strays from the pack, which forces them closer together . . . so your artillery can drop into packs of the enemy mechs & armor. If you have room and learn this well enough, it should be that no enemy force ever encounters yours with pristine mechs.
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UPDATE -
Met with the 4 players yesterday and got a number of things figured out.
The light armor stays with the hovertanks. Each lance will be composed of a single Fulcrum, a Plainsman Scout and two Drillsons. The Plainsman Scout came in as they wanted the speed to match the Drillson, which the Pegasus is slightly slower.
The expanded VTOL unit will be composed of 8 Cavalry and 4 Warrior H8's. They are also getting 4 additional Ferret's as well. This was a merc unit that the players were able to convince to join them.
And in other news, their next contract will be a Planetary Assault. They are dropping on Epsilon Eridani as part of a AMC task force consisting of the 3rd Dismal Disinherited, Lindon's Battalion and Avanti's Angels. Defending is the Eridani Guards, Lone Star Regiment and an undetermined size WoB unit.
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For a surprise you might also throw in the KWW Defense Team or whatever you want to call sitting at Kressly . . . fine builders of . . . Lineholders, Chimeras, Bandersnatches, Ostroc, and Titans for mechs while their vehicle lines are the Beagle, Lightning, Blizzard and Brutus. Of course it also raises the question of how much Kressly wanted to be taken over by the Word of Blake . . .
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For a surprise you might also throw in the KWW Defense Team or whatever you want to call sitting at Kressly . . . fine builders of . . . Lineholders, Chimeras, Bandersnatches, Ostroc, and Titans for mechs while their vehicle lines are the Beagle, Lightning, Blizzard and Brutus. Of course it also raises the question of how much Kressly wanted to be taken over by the Word of Blake . . .
Definitely a good last point there. I'm not sure that's been mentioned anywhere in canon, but it's something I'm already thinking about.