Author Topic: Kerensky...  (Read 12079 times)

ironnerd88

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Kerensky...
« on: 18 July 2019, 19:52:38 »
A lot of forum members, Battletechers, and even in-fiction characters seem to revere General Kerensky. I'm an outlier.

I have no desire to detract from his many victories, and his ability as a leader.

He suppressed the uprisings in the Periphery, forcing free people to accept the rule of the distant Star League.
When Amaris usurped the throne of the First Lord, Kerensky lead his army in a wasteful vengeance campaign that lead to the destruction of the Rim World's Republic, when he could have used those resources to expedite the liberation of Terra.
He ordered the execution of Amaris (which made sense) and his entire family (again, just vengeance).
If Kerensky had backed one House Lord (be honest - Steiner or Davion), the succession wars would not have occurred. Instead, he ran off with half the SLDF thus guaranteeing centuries of war that cost billions of lives and the loss of technology and civilization itself. Everything else is pretty much forgivable, but he could have prevented the Succession Wars, and chose not to.

In short... I think the guy's a [expletive deleted].

Of course, everything he did was by design to create a great back-story, the reason the Succession Wars had to happen, and to allow for the Clan Invasion. He's a great character, and I like him - I just think he's a [expletive deleted].
"Wow... First shot of the game, you took out the Diashi's gyros. Well, that didn't just destroy the whole scenario..." - Me, to one of my players we all called "Snake-Eyes".

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37370
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #1 on: 18 July 2019, 20:01:30 »
You might find this old thread interesting: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=172.0

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19854
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #2 on: 18 July 2019, 20:16:26 »
It was more like 80% of the SLDF and the biggest “I’m taking my ball and going home” in human history. Little did he know that home was going to end up being space hell



You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25651
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #3 on: 18 July 2019, 20:24:25 »
Most pivotal characters in fiction get an initial depiction as the "Great One", and with time, people explore more nuanced versions. This is also very true in the real world, but Rule 4 can be an issue discussing such cases.

To the people of the Inner Sphere, after a couple of centuries he was seen as a King Arthur-like figure. To the Clans, he was mythologised as part of his son Nicolas' warping of their culture.

As a for-example, I'm chewing through the Horus Heresy books (hey, it's winter), and ... the Emperor. Man, talk about bad parent! ;) He had it coming. Give me Moorcock's God-Emperor on his golden throne, from the Hawkmoon books, any day!

* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19854
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #4 on: 18 July 2019, 20:33:03 »
What, your dad didn’t sacrifice 10,000 people a day to maintain eternal life?


You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

VensersRevenge

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Is this the real life...
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2019, 20:47:35 »
In my opinion, one of the best things about how Battletech is written is just how multifaceted the important characters are, with a few unfortunate exceptions from the early books that have never been revisited. And Aleksandr Kerensky is one of the most multifaceted. As you accurately point out, despite his undoubted strategic prowess, he made political choices that are extremely controversial and can be reasonably argued as evil. While I see his Exodus as making the best of a terrible situation and his refusal to support any of the jackals who first refused to help him liberate the Hegemony and then ended the Star League because they could not be in charge (including my favourite faction, the Davions) as the morally right thing to do if not the politically expedient thing, your interpretation of it as cowardice is also a very valid one. Similarly the conquest of the Rim Worlds, which you see as form of vengeance and a waste, I see as both liberating a people who have dealt with Amaris' excesses (and the Amaris family have a lot of excess described in Star League era sourcebooks) far longer than the Hegemony and create a base of operations and resupply he did not have because the Great Houses refused to give one to him. But your view of Kerensky is just as valid, because modern Battletech tries not to paint him or most other characters as pure good or evil, and that is a very good thing as a whole.

TLDR: Battletech has made most of it's characters, but especially Kerensky, multifaceted and open to interpretation. I absolutely disagree with your interpretation, but the fact we can have such different interpretations of the same character based on the same actions is evidence of Battletechs maturity in how it creates characters.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2019, 21:24:16 by VensersRevenge »
...Is this just fantasy?
Warship Arms Race III
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84031.0

General308

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2221
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2019, 21:20:22 »
A lot of forum members, Battletechers, and even in-fiction characters seem to revere General Kerensky. I'm an outlier.

I have no desire to detract from his many victories, and his ability as a leader.

He suppressed the uprisings in the Periphery, forcing free people to accept the rule of the distant Star League.
When Amaris usurped the throne of the First Lord, Kerensky lead his army in a wasteful vengeance campaign that lead to the destruction of the Rim World's Republic, when he could have used those resources to expedite the liberation of Terra.
He ordered the execution of Amaris (which made sense) and his entire family (again, just vengeance).
If Kerensky had backed one House Lord (be honest - Steiner or Davion), the succession wars would not have occurred. Instead, he ran off with half the SLDF thus guaranteeing centuries of war that cost billions of lives and the loss of technology and civilization itself. Everything else is pretty much forgivable, but he could have prevented the Succession Wars, and chose not to.

In short... I think the guy's a [expletive deleted].

Of course, everything he did was by design to create a great back-story, the reason the Succession Wars had to happen, and to allow for the Clan Invasion. He's a great character, and I like him - I just think he's a [expletive deleted].

You are not a outlier it has been discussed over the decades

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1897
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #7 on: 18 July 2019, 21:26:16 »
A topic I started on this three years ago: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52657.msg1215173#msg1215173

Much the same thoughts.

JPArbiter

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3139
  • Podcasting Monkey
    • Arbitration Studios, your last word in battletech talk
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #8 on: 18 July 2019, 21:28:24 »
Not an outlier in the slightest.  Kerensky was a Brilliant General and a man of principals.  Fundamentally I think  the Star League Civil War, and it's subsequent dissolution broke something inside him.  psychologically, spiritually emotionally whatever you want to call it.  this led to a decision that was ultimately a betrayal of every oath he took  when he put on the uniform.  it does make him simultaneously the Star Leagues greatest hero  and traitor, an interesting proposition when you  look at it.
Host of Arbitration, your last word in Battletech Talk

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25844
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #9 on: 18 July 2019, 21:31:49 »
Most pivotal characters in fiction get an initial depiction as the "Great One", and with time, people explore more nuanced versions.

Honestly, that describes Battletech fiction as a whole pretty well.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #10 on: 18 July 2019, 21:40:26 »
A lot of forum members, Battletechers, and even in-fiction characters seem to revere General Kerensky. I'm an outlier.

  There are actually quite a few of us who refused to fall for the propaganda. The Star League Source Book tried to portray AK as a brilliant commander yet he managed to lose the Periphery and fritter away 80% of the SLDF and took a decade to do the job, with no plan to restore the TH. The apologists always say that all the TH leaders we gone, so we have to believe that Terra was only populated by mindless sheep, unable to piece together a government, and no TH citizen serving in the SLDF was willing to resign and step forward to reconstruct Terra...
  On the other hand, SBSL also states that AK was out of his depth as Regent, which I conclude was the actual reason he deserted his post and led the largest mutiny/act of piracy in human history.

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3454
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #11 on: 18 July 2019, 22:26:47 »

I agree that Alex Kerensky can be viewed thru a number of lenses.  (Abou’s alternate history where Kerensky and the SLDF create a military junta in the Terran Hegemony is an interesting one.)  But we should keep the facts straight.

He suppressed the uprisings in the Periphery, forcing free people to accept the rule of the distant Star League.

These weren’t uprisings.  They were secession movements.  Each of the four major Periphery realms had joined the Star League as Territorial States during the Reunification War.  Their peoples had not been “free” of Star League rule for nearly 200 years.

It’s also important to point out that Amaris largely manufactured the crises that created these secession movements and then fueled them with weapons and personnel from bases hidden in the Deep Periphery.  The worlds of the Periphery had lots of reasons to secede from the Star League.  But these Periphery worlds were more Amaris’s pawns to lure the SLDF away from the Terran Hegemony than free peoples exercising their free wills.

Quote
When Amaris usurped the throne of the First Lord, Kerensky lead his army in a wasteful vengeance campaign that lead to the destruction of the Rim World's Republic, when he could have used those resources to expedite the liberation of Terra.

The SLSB is pretty clear that the SLDF needed a base from which to prepare for the campaign on the Terran Hegemony and moved against the Rim Worlds when none of the Member States would provide sanctuary.  It was a necessary move, not a wasteful one, especially given the very limited forces left behind by the Rim Worlds military.

Quote
He ordered the execution of Amaris (which made sense) and his entire family (again, just vengeance).

It’s shocking to our 21st century mindsets and forms of government, but this is par for the course when dealing with hereditary rule.  It’s not enough to remove a ruler from power.  You have to remove his entire family line or else his children, siblings, nephews/nieces, or even in-laws (depending of the rules of succession) will claim the throne. 

Quote
If Kerensky had backed one House Lord (be honest - Steiner or Davion), the succession wars would not have occurred.

Richard Davion was quoted as saying that the Star League has no potential and therefore no value — that he couldn’t even buy breakfast with it.  His successor, John Davion, took worlds from the Terran Hegemony and entire divisions from the SLDF.

When the SLDF left the Rim Worlds, Robert Steiner II sent his forces in.  His successor, Jennifer Steiner, also took worlds from the Terran Hegemony and entire divisions from the SLDF.

No leader of the Great Houses was interested in keeping the Star League or the SLDF intact.

Quote
Instead, he ran off with half the SLDF thus guaranteeing centuries of war that cost billions of lives and the loss of technology and civilization itself.  Everything else is pretty much forgivable, but he could have prevented the Succession Wars, and chose not to.

The leaders of the Great Houses were on the path to war.  They dissolved the Star League, not Kerensky.  It was just a question of how bad those ensuing wars would be.  The Great Houses were already picking the SLDF apart.  Had the bulk of the SLDF’s manpower and weaponry remained in the Inner Sphere, the Succession Wars would have been that much worse.

The leaders of the Great Houses were acting like spoiled children.  The SLDF was a giant loaded gun.  You don’t leave loaded firearms in the hands of children...
« Last Edit: 18 July 2019, 22:49:01 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5816
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #12 on: 18 July 2019, 22:48:33 »
This sums up how I feel about him.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25844
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #13 on: 18 July 2019, 22:50:00 »
No King Crab?
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #14 on: 18 July 2019, 22:55:27 »
To the OP, did you ever read the Empires Aflame AU stuff?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Crimson Dawn

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 696
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #15 on: 19 July 2019, 02:15:16 »
Man if we are going to talk about overrated Kerensky I would say little Nicky is bigger issue than the big A.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #16 on: 19 July 2019, 02:27:08 »
Man if we are going to talk about overrated Kerensky I would say little Nicky is bigger issue than the big A.
I view Nicky K as the Lorgar of Battletech.

Unfortunately, there's not really an 'Erebus' level hate sink in Battletech...

Laphtiya

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #17 on: 19 July 2019, 06:14:36 »
As a for-example, I'm chewing through the Horus Heresy books (hey, it's winter), and ... the Emperor. Man, talk about bad parent! ;) He had it coming. Give me Moorcock's God-Emperor on his golden throne, from the Hawkmoon books, any day!

The inquisition wants a word with you.

Talen5000

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 902
    • Handbook: Smoke Jaguar
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #18 on: 19 July 2019, 06:32:22 »
He suppressed the uprisings in the Periphery, forcing free people to accept the rule of the distant Star League.

He was not involved with the Reunification War.

Quote
When Amaris usurped the throne of the First Lord, Kerensky lead his army in a wasteful vengeance campaign that lead to the destruction of the Rim World's Republic, when he could have used those resources to expedite the liberation of Terra.

He needed supplies, he needed refit, and the RWR provided both.

Quote
Uf Kerensky had backed one House Lord (be honest - Steiner or Davion), the succession wars would not have occurred. Instead, he ran off with half the SLDF thus guaranteeing centuries of war that cost billions of lives and the loss of technology and civilization itself. Everything else is pretty much forgivable, but he could have prevented the Succession Wars, and chose not to.

Had he chosen to become First Lord...the SLDF would have backed him, and the House Lords would not. They would have continued to chip away at the TH and SLDF.

Had he chosen to support a House Lord, he'd have lost at least half the SLDF.

Had he attacked the Houses, he could have taken one House...maybe two...but he was in no position to take them all one and the others would have jumped on him out of self preservation

Had he done nothing but garrison the TH, the Houses would have suborned as much of the SLDF as they could, and then attached each other, with the fighting inevitably spilling into the TH.

Either way, regardless of which path he chose, the Succession Wars would have started and likely been much more devastating.

« Last Edit: 19 July 2019, 07:06:45 by Talen5000 »
"So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane?" -- Uncle Arnie

Laphtiya

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #19 on: 19 July 2019, 07:01:14 »
Either way, regardless of which path he chose, the Succession Wars would have started and likely been much more devastating.

From what I understand this was the top and bottom of it.  He knew no matter what course of action he took, the succession wars would happen.  What he did was to remove 80% of the military might that the Successor states could have used against one another.  I mean look at the devastation caused in the first succession war!  Imagine adding 80% of the SLDF on top of that?

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1897
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #20 on: 19 July 2019, 09:37:12 »
Imagine being a TH citizen being abandoned by the very people that swore to protect you.

Attacking a hostile House is one thing, but the public relations disaster of attacking a just liberated TH world garrisoned by the SLDF... I don't think even Kurita would attempt that.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25844
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #21 on: 19 July 2019, 09:44:14 »
Yeah, he probably couldn't have defended the entire TH, but he'd have definitely been able to defend a solid number of worlds.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Ruger

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5575
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #22 on: 19 July 2019, 10:14:58 »
Yeah, he probably couldn't have defended the entire TH, but he'd have definitely been able to defend a solid number of worlds.

Hmm...sounds like The Republic of the Sphere...

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #23 on: 19 July 2019, 10:23:53 »
Yeah, he probably couldn't have defended the entire TH, but he'd have definitely been able to defend a solid number of worlds.
  The surviving SLDF was still the largest military force in the IS, and could easily handle any of the Houses, even combined. The problem was logistics.

  The TH was an allegory of the Roman Empire. Anyone who has studied Rome knows that Rome was unable to support its populace without the support of its conquered provinces, which for the TH, was the Periphery.
The SLDF units, like the TH, were slowly starving to death, which Kerensky realized was more than enough reason for units and even planets to seek employment/alliance/security offered by the more stable, competently led Houses. Kerensky needed the SLDF more than the SLDF needed an egotistical martinet like Kerensky -he was the worst person at the wrong time.

  I consider the threat of the Succession Wars being more costly with SLDF units a myth. They would act as a deterrent and cancel each other out. It would be like saying that nukes in the hands of the US, UK, France, the USSR and China would guarantee nuclear war...

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #24 on: 19 July 2019, 11:27:17 »
Most pivotal characters in fiction get an initial depiction as the "Great One", and with time, people explore more nuanced versions. This is also very true in the real world, but Rule 4 can be an issue discussing such cases.

To the people of the Inner Sphere, after a couple of centuries he was seen as a King Arthur-like figure. To the Clans, he was mythologised as part of his son Nicolas' warping of their culture.

As a for-example, I'm chewing through the Horus Heresy books (hey, it's winter), and ... the Emperor. Man, talk about bad parent! ;) He had it coming. Give me Moorcock's God-Emperor on his golden throne, from the Hawkmoon books, any day!

Whedon was so right when he said, "No one who's ever had a statue made of him wasn't some kind of son of a bitch."

  I consider the threat of the Succession Wars being more costly with SLDF units a myth. They would act as a deterrent and cancel each other out. It would be like saying that nukes in the hands of the US, UK, France, the USSR and China would guarantee nuclear war...

To a first order analysis , it would have been more costly in military losses. If two companies square off, once side withdraws with 50% losses, while the other side just has 16% losses and just repairs for the rest. So that's 8 people dead. Apply the same to a pair of regiments. And if you scale up the formations, the battles get bigger which means more collateral damage. Alternatively you can hit more targets.  A SW raiding plan might be to take a company and throw a lance at one planet, and two lances at a harder target.   If I have a regiment, I'll throw a company here, 2 companies there, a battalion over here, and I'll sprinkle the remaining battalion in 1 and 2 lance groups across a half dozen other targets.   More forces mean more acres of combat, means more stuff getting chewed up in the gears of war.

The problem is that the SLDF wasn't a big enough stick to be a deterrent. Perghaps if the ENTIRE SLDF sided with one of the houses, there would be enough concentrated strength to make challenging them outright suicidal. Perhaps.If the SLDF stayed, it would have either been nibbled to death protecting the TH, or absorbed by the houses.  Sure the Steiners get about 15% of the SLDF but so do the Liaos, Davions, Mariks and Kuritas. And the remaining 10% might either be stretched paper thin defending the Hegemony, or forced to fall back to a smaller, defensible number of critical worlds.   
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #25 on: 19 July 2019, 11:32:39 »
And SLDF vs SLDF happened . . . after all, the troops who chose to defend Terra faced off against their brothers who backed Blake w/Kerensky's blessing.  How screwed up is that?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19854
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #26 on: 19 July 2019, 11:38:46 »
By necessity of who has to shoot at whom, civil wars are inherently messed up

Re: SLDF in the hegemony - I cant imagine most TH worlds turning into nuclear funeral pyres with the threat of SLDF fleets or retaliation

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

BlCharger

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 203
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #27 on: 19 July 2019, 12:28:39 »
Throughout the early 2780s, it wasn't just SLDF units being poached, it was worlds as well. The TH was slowly shrinking as the Great Houses covertly undermined Kerensky and the SLDF's efforts to revive the the Hegemony.

Logistics was a major issue. The TH was in ruins when the war ended. The Great Houses had massively ramped up military production. People were fleeing the TH by the billions. The First Succession War book plainly states that war was inevitable. Whether Kerensky stayed or left, it was coming. The SLDF, while huge, was not in a great position. By 2786, looking at the numbers, the forces of the combined Houses outnumbered the SLDF.

I personally think Kerensky and the SLDF should have stayed even if they guarded a smaller Hegemony. But herein lies another issue.

From the outside looking in, the SLDF seemed to be one monolithic entity, united behind Kerensky. As we are shown, however, units were leaving. Their loyalty was not absolute. Faction loyalties were still present. Even far removed from the Inner Sphere, faction loyalties began rearing their ugly heads in the Pentagon Worlds. Let's not forget that the Royal units had a tendency to look down upon the Regulars even before the war with Amaris erupted.

For argument's sake, let's say the SLDF and Kerensky stayed. With war inevitable, they would have watched the Great Houses begin tearing into each other slowly. They had already been covertly sniping at each other for decades. The First Succession War begins as depicted in the book, albeit without the immediate rush to claim TH worlds.

What do you think happens when the Bolan Offensive begins? The Combine's offensive into the Federated Suns? The Federated Suns or the Free Worlds League invading the Capellan Confederation? Kentares IV happens as it did historically?

You have SLDF troops seeing this and thinking that their old homes are being destroyed. Families are threatened.  Families have been killed. Before you know it, Kerensky is faced with the real possibility of mass desertions. The worst case scenario, you're getting the Pentagon Wars in the Hegemony, not hundreds of light years away.

"The Ghost Bears are one big, happy family. I am the crazy, fun loving aunt." - Star Captain Peri Rand.
"You can't write history without including mankind's incessant need to kill one another." - Dr. Jessica Kimball (Hopefully soon to be my canon character)

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3454
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #28 on: 19 July 2019, 13:13:47 »

I’m not sure that the SLDF would have remained intact if tasked with defending the Terran Hegemony.  The bulk of the SLDF’s personnel were from the Great Houses, not the Hegemony.  Entire regiments and divisions were defecting and more surely would have followed if ordered to defend someone else’s state after some 20 years of war.  The Royal Divisions would have remained in the Hegemony and some fraction of the rest would have remained loyal to Kerensky.  But most of the SLDF’s personnel may have returned to their Homeworlds or joined other militaries.  Whether what was left of the SLDF after that would be enough to defend the Terran Hegemony from several Great House militaries augmented by mass SLDF defections is unclear and questionable.

There’s also the unaddressed but interrelated issues of civilian governance, leadership, and succession for the Hegemony.  Kerensky was clearly uncomfortable taking on those roles, and it’s unclear how a legitimate government would have been formed, who would have led it, how transfers of power would take place, and most importantly, what its relationship to the SLDF and Kerensky would be.  Does Kerensky or the citizens of the Hegemony pick the government and how in the case of the latter?  Are Kerensky and the remaining SLDF under this government’s command?  How does that work if Kerensky picked them?  Who funds the remaining SLDF, from what tax base, and how are those funds collected?  These are critical questions with no simple answers.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19854
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Kerensky...
« Reply #29 on: 19 July 2019, 13:26:14 »
The army was more important than protecting the hegemony. Whatever rationale you apply to his motivations, he made a decision about loyalty. The people of the hegemony not under arms were not the recipients of it

And I don’t know about the core of the SLDF breaking up. They did, after all, agree en masse to flee with him to literally unknown space

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

 

Register