Author Topic: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...  (Read 2909 times)

The_Caveman

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Some ideas I had for subtle rules tweaks that would give weapons that are essentially only in the game for the sake of flavor a more useful role:

Better Small Lasers:
The medium ranges of all small and micro lasers (standard, ER, pulse, heavy, VSP, ER pulse, X-Pulse, and re-engineered) are increased by 1 and long ranges by 2 (the standard small laser becomes 1/3/5, for example).
In addition, any non-pulse, vehicle/'Mech-mounted small lasers ignore the +1 to-hit mod for shooting at battle armor and infantry squads, and inflict their full damage value against conventional infantry (representing faster targeting with the smaller optics).
When tied to a working Targeting Computer, small lasers of all types ignore the modifier for firing at medium range (but not any other range modifiers, including those imposed by Stealth Armor and similar systems).
In exchange, small lasers of all types apply a -1 modifier when rolling to determine if a critical hit was inflicted.

Better AC/2:
The Autocannon/2, Ultra AC/2 (only when firing at single-rate), Rotary AC/2 (only when firing at single-rate), LB-2X (only when using slug ammunition), and Light AC/2 apply half the normal range modifiers at all ranges (round up), including minimum range modifiers, but not including modifiers imposed by Stealth Armor and similar systems. Medium range thus becomes +1, long range +2, extreme range +3, LOS range +4 (if applicable).
Autocannons firing multiple shots, and LB-X autocannon firing cluster ammunition continue to use the standard range modifiers.

Safer Machine Guns:
All types of Machine Gun ammunition inflict half the normal amount of damage from an ammunition explosion (round up).

Better Blazer Cannon:
Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannons automatically roll once on the Determining Critical Hits table for any location they hit, applying a -1 modifier to the roll. Any additional critical hit chances due to internal structure damage or hit location rolls are resolved as normal. This represents an armor-penetrating effect of the tandem laser blasts.

Better Flamers:
When a Flamer, Vehicle Flamer, or ER Flamer is used to inflict heat instead of damage, increase the target's heat by 5 points instead of 2, to a maximum of 15 cumulative heat points from all external heat sources. Heavy Flamers increase the target's heat by 7 points, to a maximum of 15 cumulative heat points from all external heat sources.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

idea weenie

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #1 on: 31 July 2016, 10:12:59 »
I'd offer for autocannons that you can fire an extra time per turn, but for each roll beyond the first, you get a +2 on the jam roll.  This jam can be cleared in battle.  Each shot also produces +1 heat compared to prior firings (since you are giving the gun less time proportionally to cool off).

So on the first firing of that turn, if you roll a 1 on 2d6 it jams.  If you fire twice you jam on a 3 for the second roll, on a 5 for the 3rd roll, aso.  The first shot would be 1 heat, the second shot would produce 2 heat, the 3rd shot would produce 3 heat, aso.

By using +2, it makes the Ultra a better choice for avoiding jams, but by making it clearable it encourages players to use the multi-firing option.


Similar idea for machine guns?

Daryk

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #2 on: 31 July 2016, 11:36:35 »
Nice ideas, but I have to admit, I've used all those weapons under existing rules by choice more than once.  Heck, my custom Eridani T-Bolt back in the early '90s replaced the LRM-10 with 10 small lasers.  It was a beast up close.  In the late '90s, I had a play by post GM who started using fortifications against us.  We were even happier with our stock Vulcan after that.

The_Caveman

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #3 on: 01 August 2016, 01:46:50 »
I'd offer for autocannons that you can fire an extra time per turn, but for each roll beyond the first, you get a +2 on the jam roll.  This jam can be cleared in battle.  Each shot also produces +1 heat compared to prior firings (since you are giving the gun less time proportionally to cool off).

So on the first firing of that turn, if you roll a 1 on 2d6 it jams.  If you fire twice you jam on a 3 for the second roll, on a 5 for the 3rd roll, aso.  The first shot would be 1 heat, the second shot would produce 2 heat, the 3rd shot would produce 3 heat, aso.

By using +2, it makes the Ultra a better choice for avoiding jams, but by making it clearable it encourages players to use the multi-firing option.


Similar idea for machine guns?

There are already rules for rapid-fire autocannons in TacOps. Machine guns too, but it makes them stupid powerful. Besides, that idea does nothing to address the weakness of the AC/2 specifically. It actually makes the problem worse because the damage scaling from multiple shots favors the higher calibers.

The idea here is to make the weapons work better as described in fluff, not to just give them a straight power boost. In the case of the small laser, they're usually mentioned as being auxiliary weapons for dealing with infantry and light vehicles....except they're actually terrible for that if you follow the rules as written. The AC/2 similarly is a long-range support weapon, but it only has any advantage at a range where you aren't going to hit anything anyway, and doesn't have the damage to make up for that.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Red Pins

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #4 on: 01 August 2016, 02:16:08 »
This kind of topic keeps popping up - a couple of them have involved ACs.  My personal solution is the Metal Storm-version, bullets in a tube with propellant.  Discard the tube when done.

MGs might be replaced by HAG versions of the A-P Gauss.

Heavy Blazer Cannons might be adapted by using a Clan Heavy Laser.  The heat might be a bit extreme, though.

Flamer is basically ok now - its a niche weapon after all.  The only new idea recently is the White Phosphorus shell, it coats a target it impacts on.
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The_Caveman

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #5 on: 01 August 2016, 04:28:59 »
This kind of topic keeps popping up - a couple of them have involved ACs.  My personal solution is the Metal Storm-version, bullets in a tube with propellant.  Discard the tube when done.

MGs might be replaced by HAG versions of the A-P Gauss.

Heavy Blazer Cannons might be adapted by using a Clan Heavy Laser.  The heat might be a bit extreme, though.

Flamer is basically ok now - its a niche weapon after all.  The only new idea recently is the White Phosphorus shell, it coats a target it impacts on.

I'm confused. How does replacing problematic weapons with different ones make them more useful?
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

maxcarrion

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #6 on: 01 August 2016, 09:43:53 »
This topic again, comes up every few weeks.  My solution

Seriously reduce ammo explosions, Destroys rear armour on that location (or all armour on non-torso locations) if no CASE, destroy that ammo only if CASE/CLAN - all ammo weapons could use this little boost to even the playing field

Allow AC (Not Gauss) to fire advanced ammo as standard, shots can be mixed per ton, normal shots per ton and selected per shot
- Caseless - double ammo per ton, -1 to jam roll requirements (so ultra's firing caseless cannot jam) an ac that fires caseless can only ever fire caseless
- Laser/NARC Guided - bonus to hit TAGed/NARC target, -1 at medium or long range
- Flak - bonus -3 against airborne
- Cluster - as cluster but +2 on cluster hits at medium range, +4 at short - still -2 against airborne, LBX only
- High Explosive - double infantry damage, half armour damage, ignore "small target" penalty, +2 to critical rolls on structure hits
- Gyroscopic Destabalising - +1 penalty to fall over rolls if hit, does not stack
- Artillery Round - AC20 only, 5 damage AOE shell (single hex AOE, +4 penalty to hit (cancelled by -4 bonus for stationary target))

SL and MG are fine - especially if ammo explosion is fixed.


Red Pins

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #7 on: 01 August 2016, 10:54:08 »
Evolutionary design process?  Just slapping a new set of rules in a book isn't appropriate.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

Fireangel

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #8 on: 01 August 2016, 19:03:05 »
MGs, LMGs, and HMGs are holy terrors against infantry.

Ditto for flamers, which are also awesome for their low TN to start fires (and the accompanying smoke screen).

Small lasers are incredibly good in the aero environment, with the same range as medium lasers, ton-for-ton, they do more damage for less heat than plain vanilla MLs. The only down side is the extra crit slot... but that makes it more survivable, because is a SL from a pair gets knocked out, the other can still shoot.

MGs, flamers and SLs are also useful as point defense in aero units. Sure, you need a bunch, but if you don't have AMS, these PDWs can be a lifesaver... and unlike PDS, they can be used offensively out to 108 km (6 space hexes).

AC/2-class weapons only need a large battlefield to develop their true potential; a 2x1 or 2x2 spread is not enough to let them shine.

Cryhavok101

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #9 on: 02 August 2016, 11:37:24 »
Personally, I like the AC/2. Stick some armor penetrating rounds in it and suddenly everyone else starts sweating whenever you are around.

Nebfer

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Re: Ideas to make a few of the weaker weapons more viable...
« Reply #10 on: 06 August 2016, 15:39:16 »
Well my preferred ideas is to allow ballistic weapons to have a +1 (plus 1 per every 5 dmg the weapon dose or fractions their of) to the fall check if the battlemech took 20 damage that turn, as such instead of 10 AC-2s only only needs 5... An AC-10 and a large laser can now prompt such a role, as would a AC-10 and a AC-5
exceptions to this are MGs, AP and magshot gauss

AC-2 =4
AC-5 =7
AC-10 =13
AC-20 =25

Lt Gauss =10
Gauss =19
Hvy Gauss = 31
Imp Hvy Gauss = 28
HAGs =7 per 5 point cluster


A few other slight improvements for ballistics is to reduce heat.
MGs = 0
AC-2 = 0 (UACs = 1 for double tapped, and if a RAC +1 heat for every even round fired, I.e. 5 shots = 2 heat, 6 shots = 3 heat)
AC-5 = 1
AC-10 = 3
AC-20 = 5

Personally I would allow UACs to be able to unjam, though to give some flavor and keeping the original idea, I would have the IS UACs perma jam until 3065, after that they fixed the issues and allow it to unjam (perhaps with the exception of a rolled 2 in the unjaming role...), the Clans having that ability sense the start of the 2900s.

In short 3040-3065 IS Ultras Jam per normal, post 3065 and Clans post Circa 2900 can unjam like a RAC, but a role of 2 on that role results in a perma jam.

I would also have Ultras and RACs role their 2nd shots as per the 1st but with a +1 to hit, and not use the cluster tables with RACS having the following
1 shot +0
2 shots +1
3 shots +1
4 shots +2
5 shots +2
6 shots +3


I also think the alt ammo should be 4/5s the ammo capacity of normal rounds rather than 1/2 rounded down...