Author Topic: SLDF Independent Regiment Mech Choices (Read 5119 times)

Crow · « **on:** 18 June 2018, 09:12:09 »

Say you're designing an Independent Regiment (with approx. 1 battalion each of infantry, Mech, and vee forces with attached ASFs). Say there are maybe 3-4 companies of Mechs. What Mechs would you choose?

Doesn't matter if it's Royal or Regular Army. Weight class doesn't matter, either. I'm more curious what designs people would would pick. You can choose as many Mechs designs as you want, because Independent Regiments aren't subject to the 1-design-per-company standard that the SLDF adhered to (but I did in this instance). For example:

12x Royal Archer
12x Rifleman II
12x Thug

or

12x Royal Shadowhawk
12x Ostwar/Lancelot
12x Royal Excalibur

or

12x Royal Sentinel
12x Kyudo
12x Phoenix Hawk Special

snewsom2997 · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 June 2018, 09:43:52 »

Option 1 is nice, but more of a indirect and direct fire support Battalion.
Option 2 would be a Basic Jack of all trades Battalion
Option 3 would be a good recon/Guerrilla Battalion

Given my druthers, I'd like a Regiment with a Battlion of each, or if I have to stick with just a Battalion then Battalion with a Lance of Each mech type to cover all the bases.

My Choice,
Royal Archer x 12 --Indirect Fire Support
Royal Excalibur x 12 --Heavy Trooper/Sniper
Royal Shadow Hawk x 12 --Trooper/AAA with LB-x
Royal Phoenix Hawk Special x 12 --Recon/Harassment

Iron Grenadier · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 June 2018, 23:45:20 »

Urban Warfare -
1st Comp - 3 Pillagers/6 Highlanders/3 Emperors
2nd Comp - 3 Victors/6 Guillotines/3 Wyverns
3rd Comp - 12 Vulcans

Armor - 36 Von Luckners

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 June 2018, 04:31:59 »

I'd go with a Light Horse Regiment which forces me to use lights and mediums.

1st Company 1st Battalion: 12 Phoenix Hawk LAM MK. 1
2nd Company 1st Battalion: 12 Phoenix Hawk LAM MK. 1
3rd Company 1st Battalion: 12 Phoenix Hawk LAM MK. 1

1st Squadron 1st Independent Aero Wing: 6 Samurai SL-26 ASF

What? A Light Horse regiment comes with its own Aero Wing that a squadron can be assigned as needed. :D

Crow · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 June 2018, 08:33:14 »

Not a huge fan of LAMs if LBX or artillery flak is anywhere remotely nearby

On second thought, maybe something like:

1 Battalion of Mechanized Infantry

12x Phoenix Hawk Special
12x Royal Shadow Hawk
12x Royal Crusader

12x Zephyr
12x Vali/Chaparral
12x Fury

12x Samurai
6x Royal Stuka

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 June 2018, 08:48:56 »

Quote from: Crow on 19 June 2018, 08:33:14

Not a huge fan of LAMs if LBX or artillery flak is anywhere remotely nearby

On second thought, maybe something like:

1 Battalion of Mechanized Infantry

12x Phoenix Hawk Special
12x Royal Shadow Hawk
12x Royal Crusader

12x Zephyr
12x Vali/Chaparral
12x Fury

12x Samurai
6x Royal Stuka

Slight problem in that all the battalion's mechs must be the same type. Hence why the Light Horse battalion I posted is all PHawk LAMs. It is an illegal formation.

You also have too many ASF as the max is 1 squadron per battalion usually.

Crow · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 June 2018, 10:12:48 »

Quote from: PreacherPatriot1776 on 19 June 2018, 08:48:56

Slight problem in that all the battalion's mechs must be the same type. Hence why the Light Horse battalion I posted is all PHawk LAMs. It is an illegal formation.

Nope. Independent Regiments can do what they want down to the lance level. See: FM: SLDF

Quote from: PreacherPatriot1776 on 19 June 2018, 08:48:56

You also have too many ASF as the max is 1 squadron per battalion usually.

Nope. Independent Regiments have 2 ASFs per company. 2*9=18

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 June 2018, 10:16:42 »

Quote from: Crow on 19 June 2018, 10:12:48

Nope. Independent Regiments can do what they want down to the lance level. See: FM: SLDF

Nope. Independent Regiments have 2 ASFs per company. 2*9=18

Yes, see Era Report: 2750 page 110.

The Star League Defense Force used homogeneous companies and battalions of Battlemechs and armor. If players with to have a more Star League feel to their SLDF units, instead of rolling on the Unit Composition Table for 'Mech and vehicle mass they may roll 1d6 for the mass of the entire lance.

Then we have FM: SLDF that says on page 14, "Standard SLDF doctrine to combine 'Mech types in units not smaller than a company. This simplifies both unit logistics and company training methods, and encourages MechWarriors to think of themselves as part of their parent battalions and regiments. Exceptions are sometimes made--most often in independent regiments--for graduates of the Gunslinger Program, and for 'Mech companies assigned to SAS units.

From that passage alone it's rare for all but SAS units to have mixed units in their structure. So if you have a line unit it must adhere to a single mech type per company. A Light Horse regiment, for example, can have Wasps in one company or battalion and all must be the same type.

It appears that they changed the ASF assets from the earlier 1 squadron per battalion. It's an improvement.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 June 2018, 01:03:04 »

From what we know, having 12 mechs the same would have been the most common situation followed by Homogeneous battalions.

But we also know that sometimes an entire regiment is identical & sometimes its different at the lance level.

But no where has it ever been stated that Independent Regiments "do what they want".

As PP said, its that 'IF' there is an exception to be made, that those exceptions will be in Independent Regiments v/s Line Regiments.

So for example, if I was trying to create a "generic/average" breakdown of what is or is not Homogeneous...

Typical Line Tank Regiment = 1 Regiment of 108 Identical Tanks (100% Homogeneous)

Typical Line Mech Regiment = 1 Battalion Homogeneous + 6 Companies Homogeneous. (7 different mech types out of 108 total mechs)

Typical Independent Mech Regiment = 5 Companies Homogeneous + 8 Lances Homogeneous + 4 Lances Mixed (14-29 different mech types of 108 total mechs)

Hellraiser · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 June 2018, 01:04:58 »

Quote from: Crow on 18 June 2018, 09:12:09

Say you're designing an Independent Regiment (with approx. 1 battalion each of infantry, Mech, and vee forces with attached ASFs). Say there are maybe 3-4 companies of Mechs. What Mechs would you choose?

Question

Why would a mech regiment only have 36 mechs?

Independent Regiments were still full sized mech regiments.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 June 2018, 01:13:18 »

Quote from: Crow on 18 June 2018, 09:12:09

Weight class doesn't matter, either. I'm more curious what designs people would would pick. You can choose as many Mechs designs as you want, because Independent Regiments aren't subject to the 1-design-per-company standard that the SLDF adhered to (but I did in this instance)

Here are some Independent Regiment Companies I did for a Royal Hussar regiment long ago.

A- 12x Guillotine-3N

B- 12x Excalibur-B2b

C- 12x Griffin-2N

D- 4ea = Pillager-3Z, Highlander-732b, Shogun-2H

E- 4ea = Flashman-8K, Champion-1N2, Champion-1Nb

F- Mongoose-26b, 3x Hussar-200b + 4x Spider-5V + 4x Locust-1Vb

G- Exterminator-12Db, PhoenixHawk-1c, Spector-5F, Ostscout-7Jb + 4x Phoenix Hawk-LAM + 4x Stinger-LAM

Crow · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 June 2018, 08:16:41 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 24 June 2018, 01:04:58

Question

Why would a mech regiment only have 36 mechs?

Independent Regiments were still full sized mech regiments.

Why wouldn't it? The SLDF was big on combined arms and Independent Regiments (which aren't strictly speaking pure Mech regiments) had their own attached infantry, armor, ASF and support troops. If you have 9 companies of Mechs and start adding more stuff, like armor and infantry, then you have you know, more than a regiment. So if you wanted to have relatively equal amounts of infantry, mech and armor, then you have 36 mechs in the regiment.

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 June 2018, 09:46:40 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 08:16:41

Why wouldn't it? The SLDF was big on combined arms and Independent Regiments (which aren't strictly speaking pure Mech regiments) had their own attached infantry, armor, ASF and support troops. If you have 9 companies of Mechs and start adding more stuff, like armor and infantry, then you have you know, more than a regiment. So if you wanted to have relatively equal amounts of infantry, mech and armor, then you have 36 mechs in the regiment.

Generally speaking, only the Light Horse had vehicles as part of their recon element and their units were comprised of 3-5 battalions. Of which, 3 of those battalions were 'Mechs and the other two were vehicles/infantry. See Eridani Light Horse in Mercenary's Handbook (1616).

Crow · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 June 2018, 11:08:44 »

Quote from: PreacherPatriot1776 on 24 June 2018, 09:46:40

Generally speaking, only the Light Horse had vehicles as part of their recon element and their units were comprised of 3-5 battalions. Of which, 3 of those battalions were 'Mechs and the other two were vehicles/infantry. See Eridani Light Horse in Mercenary's Handbook (1616).

I think that you're confusing Line Regiments and larger units with Independent Regiments.

"Eridani Light Horse trace their history back to 2702 when the 3rd Regimental Combat Team (called an RCT) was formed. The unit consisted of four regiments - two Striker regiments and two Light Horse regiments."

Arkansas Warrior · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 June 2018, 11:27:06 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 08:16:41

Why wouldn't it? The SLDF was big on combined arms and Independent Regiments (which aren't strictly speaking pure Mech regiments) had their own attached infantry, armor, ASF and support troops. If you have 9 companies of Mechs and start adding more stuff, like armor and infantry, then you have you know, more than a regiment. So if you wanted to have relatively equal amounts of infantry, mech and armor, then you have 36 mechs in the regiment.

A mech regiment with attached infantry, ASF, etc implies to me a full regiment of mechs with additional troops attached. That’s hardly an uncommon situation in BT.

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 June 2018, 11:31:12 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 11:08:44

I think that you're confusing Line Regiments and larger units with Independent Regiments.

"Eridani Light Horse trace their history back to 2702 when the 3rd Regimental Combat Team (called an RCT) was formed. The unit consisted of four regiments - two Striker regiments and two Light Horse regiments."

No, I was looking at the original TO&E for the Eridani Light Horse published in Mercenary's Handbook (1616) and at the individual regiments. There is a reason why I told you to look where I said for you to see how they assembled a Light Horse regiment. Also, Light Horse Regiments are independent regiments. For line units they use Striker as the term for light/medium 'Mech regiments.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 June 2018, 12:30:20 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 08:16:41

Why wouldn't it? The SLDF was big on combined arms and Independent Regiments (which aren't strictly speaking pure Mech regiments) had their own attached infantry, armor, ASF and support troops. If you have 9 companies of Mechs and start adding more stuff, like armor and infantry, then you have you know, more than a regiment. So if you wanted to have relatively equal amounts of infantry, mech and armor, then you have 36 mechs in the regiment.

They are a full mech regiment.

See SLSB. Independent Regiments are MECH regiments.

Full Mech Regiment with additional attached companies of Infantry, Tanks, Artillery, Hovers, etc etc.

Used when a single regiment is not enough for the job but a division is too much.

Total Strength is not listed but you can pretty much assume 4 battalions minimum & max at 5-6 depending on the amount of attached forces.

Personally I like using a Colossus since its fluffed for use with RCTs & it gives you a battalion of infantry & 2 of tanks which means its probably more like 3 companies of tanks, 1 of artillery, & 2 for the regimental support group of trucks, repair, MASH, HQ, etc etc.

Iron Grenadier · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 June 2018, 12:39:48 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 24 June 2018, 12:30:20

They are a full mech regiment.

See SLSB. Independent Regiments are MECH regiments.

Full Mech Regiment with additional attached companies of Infantry, Tanks, Artillery, Hovers, etc etc.

Used when a single regiment is not enough for the job but a division is too much.

Total Strength is not listed but you can pretty much assume 4 battalions minimum & max at 5-6 depending on the amount of attached forces.

Personally I like using a Colossus since its fluffed for use with RCTs & it gives you a battalion of infantry & 2 of tanks which means its probably more like 3 companies of tanks, 1 of artillery, & 2 for the regimental support group of trucks, repair, MASH, HQ, etc etc.

I'm not 100% sure on that. The SLDF Field Manual seems pretty clear that regiments are just 3 battalions. And we know the independent regiments include support troops, but I haven't seen anything that says they are larger than a 3 battalion regiment. So it might be two mech battalions, with the 3rd composed of armor/infantry. Page 13 also mentions the Independent Regiments as being more loose with their org to be able to handle multiple missions too.

An extreme example but the only one I can think of would be the Royal Black Watch - 2 battlemech battalions and a third infantry battalion.

Personally I run all the independent regiments with 4 battalions. And my Dragoon units use a square organization (4 lances/company, 4 companies/battalion, etc)

Crow · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 June 2018, 12:56:13 »

Quote from: Iron Grenadier on 24 June 2018, 12:39:48

The SLDF Field Manual seems pretty clear that regiments are just 3 battalions. And we know the independent regiments include support troops, but I haven't seen anything that says they are larger than a 3 battalion regiment. So it might be two mech battalions, with the 3rd composed of armor/infantry. Page 13 also mentions the Independent Regiments as being more loose with their org to be able to handle multiple missions too.

Yes, this is what I'm inclined to believe is the case.

But what about CAAN regiments though? They are Independent Regiments. Are they still majority Mech regiments? I would be more inclined to believe that they would have more blue water assets than any other unit type.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 June 2018, 14:19:10 »

Quote from: Arkansas Warrior on 24 June 2018, 11:27:06

A mech regiment with attached infantry, ASF, etc implies to me a full regiment of mechs with additional troops attached. That’s hardly an uncommon situation in BT.

Agreed.

Attached is not "Replaced with", its In addition too.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 June 2018, 14:33:07 »

Quote from: Iron Grenadier on 24 June 2018, 12:39:48

I'm not 100% sure on that. The SLDF Field Manual seems pretty clear that regiments are just 3 battalions. And we know the independent regiments include support troops, but I haven't seen anything that says they are larger than a 3 battalion regiment. So it might be two mech battalions, with the 3rd composed of armor/infantry. Page 13 also mentions the Independent Regiments as being more loose with their org to be able to handle multiple missions too.

Personally I run all the independent regiments with 4 battalions. And my Dragoon units use a square organization (4 lances/company, 4 companies/battalion, etc)

SLSB P.133

Quote

The Star League had 7 different types of BATTLEMECH regiments....

Independed BATTLMECH Regiments

These MECH regiments had companies of non-mech units (Jump Troops, Hovercraft, Tanks, & Fighters)

Its pretty clear they are referring to Mech units with some extra support added on to the TO&E as the Fighters are clearly stated to be a pair attached to every mech company in an Independent Mech Regiment.

I don't see any reason to remove 2/3 of the mechs to add full battalions of Infantry/Armor when they are just fluffed as companies.

Where is the 4x4 for Dragoons coming from?

The Line - Heavy/Assault Regiments are fluffed as having a 4th Company of Artillery attached, but, even then isn't listed as using a full 4x4 16 mech company with 48 mech battalions.

Crow · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 June 2018, 14:50:30 »

What about an infantry or armor independent regiment?

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 June 2018, 17:49:09 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 14:50:30

What about an infantry or armor independent regiment?

Per FM: SLDF page 15, "Armored units are organized in much the same way as line BattleMech regiments. There are assault, heavy, medium, and light tank regiments, and are usually has just one type of tracked tank."

"In particular, high-speed cavalry battalions are often integrated with light horse 'Mech regiments, offer the already-high-speed units even greater mobility."

Infantry Assets "There are four types of infantry regiments: mechanized, grunt, jump, and marine. Each regiment, like other SLDF regiments, is organized with three battalions of three companies each. Companies are broken up into three platoons."

It is right there in both the Star League source book (FASA 1630) or FM: SLDF.

Iron Grenadier · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 June 2018, 18:26:49 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 24 June 2018, 14:33:07

SLSB P.133

Its pretty clear they are referring to Mech units with some extra support added on to the TO&E as the Fighters are clearly stated to be a pair attached to every mech company in an Independent Mech Regiment.

I don't see any reason to remove 2/3 of the mechs to add full battalions of Infantry/Armor when they are just fluffed as companies.

Where is the 4x4 for Dragoons coming from?

The Line - Heavy/Assault Regiments are fluffed as having a 4th Company of Artillery attached, but, even then isn't listed as using a full 4x4 16 mech company with 48 mech battalions.

Ok, I don't have the old source book, just the newer Field Manual.

The 4x4 is what I personally run as I believe it gives more options, and it's based on fluff from several units in the Mercs Field Manuals. This doesn't seem to be repeated in the SLDF Field Manual, but we just kept it at our table.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 June 2018, 22:27:48 »

Quote from: Crow on 24 June 2018, 14:50:30

What about an infantry or armor independent regiment?

As PP stated, the descriptions are available in the sourcebooks.

The one thing that should be added is that the SL might have an "independent" Tank/Infantry regiment, but not an "Independent Tank Regiment" in the way they classified the Mechs as its own type of unit.

You could have a Tank/Infantry Regiment not attached to a division, but it was still a "Line" regiment in how it was built, IE. completely homogeneous single unit type regiment.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 June 2018, 22:32:08 »

Quote from: Iron Grenadier on 24 June 2018, 18:26:49

The 4x4 is what I personally run as I believe it gives more options, and it's based on fluff from several units in the Mercs Field Manuals. This doesn't seem to be repeated in the SLDF Field Manual, but we just kept it at our table.

Ok, I was wondering because I've heard it mentioned but never seen it in the actual SLSB/FMSLDF & while I like the fat companies, they don't really fit the SL era transports very well.

I'll have to re-read the Merc FM's again to see which units have it.

Iron Grenadier · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 June 2018, 00:45:45 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 26 June 2018, 22:32:08

I'll have to re-read the Merc FM's again to see which units have it.

I believe it was Storms Metal Thunder, Blackstone Highlanders and Dioscuri units. As I recall it doesn't say much other than "this was an old Star League formation" or some such.

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 June 2018, 05:43:00 »

Quote from: Iron Grenadier on 27 June 2018, 00:45:45

I believe it was Storms Metal Thunder, Blackstone Highlanders and Dioscuri units. As I recall it doesn't say much other than "this was an old Star League formation" or some such.

The writer for Storm's Metal Thunder made a mistake on that since a Heavy Assault Regiment has 3 battalions of Heavy to Assault mechs plus a fourth company of artillery for each battalion. See FM: SLDF page 13, "Heavy Assault: Each battalion of a heavy assault regiment also includes fourth company of artillery for organic fire support." See Star League Source Book (1630)Page 133, "Heavy Assault: The knock-out punch of most 'Mech brigades, these regiments had 'Mechs of heavy-to-assault weight and had a fourth company of attached artillery."

Yes, they used a 4x4 but not in the way you are thinking.

Iron Grenadier · « **Reply #28 on:** 27 June 2018, 09:04:45 »

Quote from: PreacherPatriot1776 on 27 June 2018, 05:43:00

The writer for Storm's Metal Thunder made a mistake on that since a Heavy Assault Regiment has 3 battalions of Heavy to Assault mechs plus a fourth company of artillery for each battalion. See FM: SLDF page 13, "Heavy Assault: Each battalion of a heavy assault regiment also includes fourth company of artillery for organic fire support." See Star League Source Book (1630)Page 133, "Heavy Assault: The knock-out punch of most 'Mech brigades, these regiments had 'Mechs of heavy-to-assault weight and had a fourth company of attached artillery."

Yes, they used a 4x4 but not in the way you are thinking.

Writer error is certainly possible, but I'm guessing there might be a reference for it somewhere since it was repeated for three units (that I know of).

At any rate, that's just how I organize the Dragoon regiments at my table.

PreacherPatriot1776 · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 June 2018, 10:16:03 »

Quote from: Iron Grenadier on 27 June 2018, 09:04:45

Writer error is certainly possible, but I'm guessing there might be a reference for it somewhere since it was repeated for three units (that I know of).

At any rate, that's just how I organize the Dragoon regiments at my table.

It is writer error since the SLDF never fielded units in that configuration. Also, the Dioscuri unit doesn't say anything about the SLDF. So the two source books on the SLDF contradict FM: Mercenaries (1701). Considering that FM: Mercenaries is written from the PoV of Wolf's Dragoons. A clan unit that did a disinformation campaign in the IS and has a habit of lying to the IS I don't see why they take precedence over the other two source books. Especially when the Star League source book was written from an out of universe perspective.