A New Weapon of War

[monbvol]

I'll have to write up the fluff later but decided to have a little fun in relation to some FanFic writing I intend to get to in the not too distant future.

But yeah it always struck me how frail the M5's really were and there was some fairly easy paths for rectifying this.  I will be addressing some things in pending fluff and some in the fanfic itself.

[Fluff]

As part of a larger secret program a cabal of senior SLDF officers and select Hegemony officials took an opportunity to put certain things in place.  They performed some War games with the assumption anyone capable of overcoming the SLN would have to be far more powerful than said SLN.  Which meant likely able to deploy far superior numbers of vessels.  The known limitations of the Lola III frame in terms of durability proved unsustainable in this new series of war games.  So a look at how to better optimize the frame for the Caspar system created the desired opening.

With the new techniques of Waypoint and Bearings Only launching it was decided to delete the nose and aft missile launchers to free up space for other upgrades.  Primary of which was unifying the weapons battery, applying the maximum amount of armor, and installing organic point defense.

Also along with this were increases to the vessel's heat dissipation, fuel capacity, and the addition of small craft bays.

This far exceeded the freed up space and the cabal cleverly hid this by faking an improved self destruct system that would not accidentally be triggered by battle damage and by being more selectively deployed on key points could still serve to scuttle the ship and prevent reverse engineering of the most critical parts.

In reality this 'improved' self destruct system was actually a Naval Communications Scanner and Mobile HPG relay.  No self destruct system was actually installed.

To help push the design past the procurement boards they also argued that if the SLN was destroyed or called away these vessels should have a capacity to provide disaster relief until the SLN could be recalled or rebuilt.  Hence the Small Craft capacity.

Perhaps the best ally that helped push this revision past the procurement boards and past any concerns was the sheer bureaucracy of the Terran Hegemony and SLDF.  It is theorized only a hand full of this pattern of Caspar Drones were produced before the Amaris Crises but by then it became a simple shell game to lose these in the hundreds of other more standard M5 drones.
[/fluff]

Capital Drone M-5.1 'Caspar'
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Capital Drone
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2710
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 105,373
Tech Rating/Availability: F/F-X-X-X
Cost: 16,337,564,000 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 628 meters

Fuel: 4,000 tons (10,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 2500 (5000)
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 96
    Fore Sides: 96/96
    Aft Sides: 96/96
    Aft: 94

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Small Craft (1)    1 Door    
    Bay 3:  Cargo (2546.0 tons)     1 Door    

Ammunition:
    60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (3,000 tons), 
    720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons), 
    120 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (3,600 tons), 
    1,200 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (480 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  0*      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   680 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (790 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
FRS/FLS (823 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (300 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  20   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (10 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
RBS/LBS (125 Heat)
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  40   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (803 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (300 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
Aft (790 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
   

*Automated Defenses and Remote Drones provide 110 Marine Points

[monbvol]

Fluff is probably a little on the short side and probably doesn't address everything it should from this side but with how unpredictable my writing windows are going to be for a while yet that is the best I can offer at the moment.

[Cannonshop]

It's good, Monbvol.  Kind of what we extrapolated they'd be before the Devs delivered their OWN take.

[monbvol]

It did strike me as a bit odd that the M5 we got was so thinly armored.

But then again a lot of SLDF ships are very much glass cannons and so are most of what they went up against.  Which is fine under the assumption you got the production/existing numbers to take on what ever was left after dealing with the SLN.

But if it was the SLN that for what ever reason went into widespread rebellion or someone who managed to take that into account and thus knew they'd need a healthy reserve to continue their campaign after dealing with the SLN, well it still wouldn't be pretty for this theoretical attacker but swarm tactics do tend to break down if your opponent has a bunch of hammers of their own.

[Cannonshop]

It did strike me as a bit odd that the M5 we got was so thinly armored.

But then again a lot of SLDF ships are very much glass cannons and so are most of what they went up against.  Which is fine under the assumption you got the production/existing numbers to take on what ever was left after dealing with the SLN.

But if it was the SLN that for what ever reason went into widespread rebellion or someone who managed to take that into account and thus knew they'd need a healthy reserve to continue their campaign after dealing with the SLN, well it still wouldn't be pretty for this theoretical attacker but swarm tactics do tend to break down if your opponent has a bunch of hammers of their own.

One of the major factors involved is 'storytelling' factors-and remember this game has to be playable.  The M-5 you designed in the canon numbers, would need to be catastrophically incompetent to be defeated by canon SLDF warships.

There were a lot of narrative inserts used by the devs when they statted the M-5s because otherwise people playing Kerensky would LOSE.  Hence the "goes insane if it jumps" and the thin armor on the canon models-both were done rather explicitly so that they could use 4th century and 19th century ramming tactics and have them actually WORK-because the alternative is a game on the scale of complexity of "Saganami Island Tactical Simulator"-a game I bought, and believe me, it's nigh-unplayable for anyone whose tabletopping is 'beer and pretzels' like Battletech at the upper limit.

IOW it's not an easy game to play, never mind teach, which is also why it had a short life in print.

[Daryk]

Now I have to Google "Saganami Island Tactical Simulator"...  ::)

[DOC_Agren]

Now I have to Google "Saganami Island Tactical Simulator"...  ::)

Playing Starships in the Honor Harrington Universe, but u need to play in 3d not 2d most wargames are played at, and yes I would rather do anything else but try to play it.

[Liam's Ghost]

It did strike me as a bit odd that the M5 we got was so thinly armored.

I think there might be a hint in one of the pieces of equipment standard on an M5 that you left out.  ;D

The intention behind the M5 may have been "powerful enough in numbers to repel any practical member state assault, but not so powerful that they can't be defeated by the SLN if they are subverted or otherwise go rogue."

[monbvol]

Which is why I said it makes sense for certain assumptions, which to be fair were accurate for published materials, and when adding in so many of it's contemporaries as additional context it's going to hold up fairly well even if they're being destroyed in job lots.

I just made different assumptions and to be fair as mentioned for the third time now there are crewed ships that are frankly criminally under-armored as well.  One of which is the Lola III.

[monbvol]

I am having a bit of a thought.

I am tempted to revise this a little to have some crew space.  Obviously this would be under the pretext of the whole 'while the SLN is away/diminished these can act as relief hubs' and scrounging up a few medical and engineering specialists.

Then again the whole idea that these can act as relief hubs at all might be a tough sell since there would still be a sizable merchant marine of Jumpships and Dropships to use for such tasks.

[Giovanni Blasini]

You know, this could be a good basis for Tabby.

[Daryk]

Hmmm... were Laser AMS far enough along for a prototype Caspar project? ???

[Giovanni Blasini]

Hmmm... were Laser AMS far enough along for a prototype Caspar project? ???

Per the rules in Interstellar Operations, not even remotely. Prototypes debuted in 3048 for Clan and 3059 for IS.

[Daryk]

Ah... I had hope since Small Pulse Lasers were well established by the SLDF.

[monbvol]

Go for it Gio.  I'd love to see what you can turn this into for Tabby.

[Daryk]

Seconded!  :thumbsup:

[Giovanni Blasini]

Tabby is Cannonshop’s baby.  Not surprisingly, even with me having written some of her during joint stories, he has a much easier time and does a better job of finding her voice than I do.

[Daryk]

Voice is definitely his strongest suit.  :)

[Cannonshop]

Tabby is Cannonshop’s baby.  Not surprisingly, even with me having written some of her during joint stories, he has a much easier time and does a better job of finding her voice than I do.

you know where to find me if you want to try another stab, Gio.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I do.  Having enough trouble keeping my own crap together these days, though.

[monbvol]

With the work establishing infrastructure going well in the Lazarus system another concern began to arise in the refugee flee of AIs.  Their hulls did have maximum service lives that were about to be reached.

For many it was decided rebuilding them to the same standard as Victoria would suffice but for some of the especially older hulls a more extensive refit was needed.

So it was decided to copy the ARTs bays from the M9 and throw some on the hulls.  The original Lola II frame was designed with hanger bays in mind so this was a relatively simple matter.  Adding ARTS small craft bays likewise was not terribly difficult.

But to make room for all this and human crews to help maintain everything that the drones could not the firepower was significantly downgraded with the removal of all remaining naval autocannons.  To help compensate the nose and aft naval PPCs were relocated into the now empty autocannon bays.

The removal of the self destruct devices finished bringing the available mass and volume for cargo to an acceptable fraction of the hull's overall mass.

Capital Drone M-5.2 'Caspar'
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Capital Drone
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2710
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 55,487
Tech Rating/Availability: F/F-X-X-X
Cost: 16,221,638,000 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 628 meters

Fuel: 4,000 tons (10,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 2500 (5000)
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 96
    Fore Sides: 96/96
    Aft Sides: 96/96
    Aft: 94

Cargo
    Bay 1:  ARTS Small Craft (4)    2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Fighter (18)       9 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (27336.0 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (3,000 tons), 
    720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons), 
    120 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (3,600 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (100 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  40 officers, 163 enlisted/non-rated, 36 gunners, 20 bay personnel, 110 marines      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   680 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (340 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (868 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
1 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  20   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (10 shots)
3 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         675  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
RBS/LBS (125 Heat)
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  40   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (848 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         675  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
Aft (340 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser

I was always this way!

[monbvol]

For the Command variant M5s, as exceedingly few and rare as those were with Lady Cameron's fleet, also facing need of a life extension refit found themselves with even more room to work with so it was decided that they would take on an additional tender role for the formations they were meant to lead.

Capital Drone M-5.2C 'Caspar'
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Capital Drone
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2710
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 55,487
Tech Rating/Availability: F/F-X-X-X
Cost: 17,721,638,000 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 628 meters

Fuel: 4,000 tons (10,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 2500 (5000)
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 96
    Fore Sides: 96/96
    Aft Sides: 96/96
    Aft: 94

Cargo
    Bay 1:  ARTS Small Craft (4)    2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Fighter (18)       9 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (33436.0 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (3,000 tons), 
    720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons), 
    120 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (3,600 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (100 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  40 officers, 163 enlisted/non-rated, 36 gunners, 20 bay personnel, 110 marines      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System
    1 Autonomous Tactical Analysis Computer (ATAC) (50 drones)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   680 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (340 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (868 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
1 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  20   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (10 shots)
3 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         675  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
RBS/LBS (125 Heat)
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  40   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (848 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         675  45(450) 45(450) 45(450) 45(450)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
Aft (340 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser

[monbvol]

Oh and a just for fun side project for all of this:

Order of Battle:

Destroyer Division 1
-Command vessel:
Originaly M5C- converted to M-5.2C for life extension and due to battle damage Original M5 Pennant designation: M5C 94472285 now commissioned as SLS Billie Hoel

M-5.1 Original M5 pennant designation: M5 11017137 now commissioned as SLS Victoria Cameron
M5-Converted to M-5.1 for life extension Original M5 pennant designation: PQX-M5E114 now commissioned as  SLS Joana Clarice Butler
M5-Converted to M-5.1 for life extension and due to battle damage SLS Otillie Lee Dennis
M5-Converted to M-5.2 for life extension and due to battle damage Original M5 pennant designation: PQX-M5E114 now commissioned as SLS Lucy Heerman
M5-As a younger M5 not slated for conversion for another decade SLS Joana Vincente Johnston
M5-As a younger M5 not slated for conversion for another decade SLS Regina Marbury Raymond
M5-Converted to M-5.1 for life extension Original M5 pennant designation: PQX-M5E115 SLS Samantha Booker Roberts

Destroyer Division 2
Hulls are pending but I have names
SLS Cossack
SLS Sikh
SLS Zulu
SLS Maori
SLS Piorun
SLS Tartar
SLS Mashona
SLS Haida

Special Operations group
M-5.1 TQF-M5D66 Chief Intel, also answers to 66 or Agent 66.  But only if she likes you or respects you.

And I have the left over bits of TQF-204M5B, and Tabarinth to figure out where to stuff in and any other M5s that come up.

[monbvol]

Shit.  Just noticed that the ATACs didn't update for 50 Drones correctly.  I am going to have to fix that when I get home.

[Daryk]

Ouch, yeah... that's going to hurt a bit.  :P

[monbvol]

There we go.  Took more tries than I want to admit.  Fixed now.

[monbvol]

So I am doing a slightly cleaned up status of the fleet as of 3110.  So slight spoilers.  :P

Status of the Fleet
3110

Destroyer Division 1

Command Vessel:
SLS Billie Hoel-Converted to M-5.2C standard due to battle damage sustained in 3062 and SLEP.

SLS Victoria Cameron M-5.1

SLS Joana Clarice Butler Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

SLS Ottillie Lee Dennis Converted to M-5.1 due to battle damage sustained in 3062 and as part of SLEP

SLS Lucy Heerman Converted to M-5.2 due to battle damage sustained in 3062 and as part of SLEP

SLS Joana Vincente Johnston Still in original M5 configuration

SLS Regina Marbury Raymond Still in original M5 configuration

SLS Samantha Booker Roberts Converted to M5.1 as part of SLEP

Destroyer Division 2

Command Vessel
SLS Haida Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

SLS Cossack Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP-Hull destroyed in Second Battle of Lutyens 68-28 3080

SLS Sikh Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP-Hull destroyed  in Second Battle of Lutyens 68-28 3080

SLS Zulu Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

SLS Maori Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

SLS Piorun Converted to M-5.3 as part of SLEP

SLS Tartar Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

SLS Mashona Converted to M-5.1 as part of SLEP

Special Operations Group

Command vessel
TQF-66M5D Late D model built converted to M-5.1 spec during construction in 2712

TQF-204M5B Converted to M-5.2 as part of SLEP in 3072

Reserve Formation

Command Vessel
SLS Tabarinth-M5C-Converted to M-5.2C as part of SLEP

SLS Phoenix Originally Bonaventure class Corvette SLS Foxglove converted to accept M5 7775551’s salvaged systems and re-commissioned as SLS Phoenix in 3110

Originally SLS Stephan Decataur Farragut class Battleship.  Word of Blake began conversion to accept Caspar systems conversion finished by Star League in Exile but still awaiting a personality matrix recovered from Lutyens 68-28  Sikh and Cossack squabled over it so neither got it as punishment.

SLS Misby Bonaventure  class Corvette currently mothballed with no crew recovered from extreme outer system at Liberty base

SLS Hokaido Maru Tracker class captured as spoils of the Jihad currently mothballed

SLS Strangiata Tracker class captured as spoils of the Jihad currently mothballed

SLS Los Alamos Essex II class recovered from extreme outer system Liberty base currently mothballed

So with that I would like to see what people have in mind for Piorun, I do want to reflect she is a bit different than the others like in history since she was a N Class instead of a Tribal.

SLS Phoenix let's see if we can even make that work as an M5 conversion.  Bonaventure class.

SLS Stephan Decataur I already know can't fit the better M5 controller without some rather massive re-working, more than I think I can justify.  I can be convinced to compensate with an ATACs.  Farragut class.

Constraints are there are plenty of NAC(20 and 25s if I remember right) pulled from the original M5 configurations and capital missiles too.  I am willing to also allow some salvage from that Blakist Congress that bit off more than it could chew in 3062.  Ferro Carbide is the armor of the day as I am willing to allow production of that.  I am also willing to allow Naval Comm scanners and mobile HPGs.  Beyond that it really should be stuff readily available on open/mercenary markets.  Mixed human M5 crewing is also fine.  So go nuts but try and not strain her Ladyship's ability to support her fleet.

[Daryk]

Johnston and Raymond are back?  Or have I totally screwed up the timeline? ???

[monbvol]

Their death ride is 3116 sometime.

[Daryk]

So the latter... thanks for clearing that up!  :thumbsup: