Author Topic: A New Weapon of War (Read 12895 times)

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #30 on:** 04 May 2023, 19:35:52 »

What class are the Phoenix and Stephan Decataur?

Daryk · « **Reply #31 on:** 04 May 2023, 19:59:44 »

The Decatur is a Farragut. I think the Phoenix is a Bonaventure... 8)

monbvol · « **Reply #32 on:** 04 May 2023, 20:08:14 »

Daryk has it. Still I added some emphasis and extra mentions to make it clearer.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #33 on:** 04 May 2023, 20:48:46 »

for the Piorun, the most obvious idea would be to pick a non-M5 for it, another conversion to AI control. (with perhaps a larger human crew as a result)

if you really want to play up the fact the namesake was a non-british crew and flag, perhaps pick a ship from a non-SLDF source.
a Davion II or Narukami would fit size wise. though given the historical Piorun was british built, and if you wanted to go for the parallel, you could pick a hegemony design that served in a successor state military. which would allow for something like a Carson, Baron, or a Dart. (or a Davion I/Whirlwind if you go the other way, with a successor state design serving in the SLDF)

monbvol · « **Reply #34 on:** 04 May 2023, 21:20:48 »

Well just to get people started:

Bonaventure Corvette SLS Phoenix
Mass: 240,000 tons
Use: Corvette
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 3110
Mass: 240,000
Battle Value: 9,061
Tech Rating/Availability: F/F-X-X-X
Cost: 9,035,540,000 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 486 meters

Fuel: 6,500 tons (32,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 7
Heat Sinks: 384 (768)
Structural Integrity: 36

Armor
    Nose: 33
    Fore Sides: 33/33
    Aft Sides: 33/33
    Aft: 31

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door    
    Bay 2:  ARTS Fighter (12)       6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (26914.5 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    160 rounds of LB 10-X Cluster ammunition (2 tons), 
    112 rounds of LRM 15 Artemis-capable ammunition (2 tons), 
    40 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (60 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (50 m)
Escape Pods: 17
Life Boats: 10
Crew:  20 officers, 89 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 10 bay personnel      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
   172.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (10 Heat)
2 LRM 15+Artemis IV                     10   2(18)   2(18)   2(18)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Artemis-capable Ammo (56 shots)
FRS/FLS (64 Heat)
1 Naval Laser 35                        52   4(35)   4(35)   4(35)     0(0)   Capital Laser
1 ER Large Laser                        12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       
RBS/LBS (14 Heat)
2 LB 10-X AC                             4   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   LBX AC      
    LB 10-X Cluster Ammo (80 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (12 Heat)
1 ER Large Laser                        12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (10 Heat)
2 LRM 15+Artemis IV                     10   2(18)   2(18)   2(18)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Artemis-capable Ammo (56 shots)

I did the obvious stuff and since the conversions of M5s to M-5.1s and M-5.2s pulled Barracuda launchers from the base M5 stuffed those in the broadsides to take full advantage of waypoints launch rules to give it better versatility and a larger fighter compliment for it's real main striking power.

I know it'll be hard to beat with the constraints laid out.

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #35 on:** 04 May 2023, 21:59:56 »

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 04 May 2023, 20:48:46

for the Piorun, the most obvious idea would be to pick a non-M5 for it, another conversion to AI control. (with perhaps a larger human crew as a result)

if you really want to play up the fact the namesake was a non-british crew and flag, perhaps pick a ship from a non-SLDF source.
a Davion II or Narukami would fit size wise. though given the historical Piorun was british built, and if you wanted to go for the parallel, you could pick a hegemony design that served in a successor state military. which would allow for something like a Carson, Baron, or a Dart. (or a Davion I/Whirlwind if you go the other way, with a successor state design serving in the SLDF)

I've been pondering a similar question for "Exile in Syberia", since my choice of ship that Groundwave finds will shape other stories in the California Nebula.

One option, if you don't want to go with another M-5, would be a Baron hull, since that was used for the M-4, and has plenty of space aboard to do it. They're also the kind of surplus ship you'd potentially have sitting in a depot somewher - IIRC, the Blakists found one in the Ruins of Gabriel. So it's a vessel in canon that had an SDS AI fitted, and those naval laser batteries give it a solid role to fill, too.

If you're looking for something that's a downgrade for story reasons, but not another Boncaventure, the main computer running the sensors on the Vincent class is an Ulsop AI Surveillance Computer. That could also easily be an "in" for converting to full SDS control,

The Essex II was refit by the Clans to use an "Athena-3" computer system as an upgrade over the old SLDF computer. The Athena-3 can allow a skeleton crew of 25 to operate an Essex II, so I could see making the argument that converting an SLDF Essex II to SDS controls is a straightfoward task.

monbvol · « **Reply #36 on:** 04 May 2023, 23:12:06 »

Hmmm a Baron might not be a bad choice there.

And don't mind the notes I am now making for a new home for either Johnston, Raymond, Sikh or Cossack...

Also overlook that Cannonshop has already encouraged me to allow an Essex II in the reserve force...

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #37 on:** 04 May 2023, 23:33:23 »

the big drawback to the Baron i think, would be its lower thrust.. the M5's can all do 4/6 thrust, the Baron has half that.

the Vincent could keep up with a Caspar.. but would need to be massively rebuilt to be useful as anything other than a logistics transport for the squadron. (seriously, why did the SLDF ever think that 8 LL's, 4 NAC10's, and 2 barracuda missile tubes would be sufficient for a 400K tonnage ship?)

hmm.. i wonder just how much of a M5's capabilities you could shoehorn into a Vincent Mk39 without reducing its ~97.2K ton cargo bay below half? 48000 tons of cargo would still be 26 times what a normal M5 can carry, so you could make its defensive and offensive abilities useful and still use it as a support craft for DesRon 2 on longer deployments.

something i'll play around with when i get home from work tomorrow.

Daryk · « **Reply #38 on:** 05 May 2023, 03:20:55 »

I thought the Bonaventure we were using had a NL/45 (vice /35)? ???

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #39 on:** 05 May 2023, 05:45:42 »

Oh, another idea from my sleep-addled brain and from my list for Groundwave:

Part of me has doubts that the M-4 could have been the only test bed for what became the M-5. After all, while they’re both WarShips, they’re not terribly similar.

The Lola I, II and III, on the other hand, use basically the same space frames as the M-5, while possessing weaker firepower than the later M-5, making it more able to be brought to heel during testing phases. Once all the bugs were worked out on the refit Lola I/II/III hulls, then, they could go for the big production runs of the much more powerful M-5 series.

Lola’s also have the benefit of having been in production since the dawn of the WarShip age, so parts are probably scattered everywhere, just like derelict hulls. I imagine they’d be easy to get ahold of, comparatively.

monbvol · « **Reply #40 on:** 05 May 2023, 08:49:50 »

Quote from: Daryk on 05 May 2023, 03:20:55

i thought the Bonaventure we were using had a NL/45 (vice /35)? ???

I worked from the base Bonnie and did not upgrade the Naval Lasers. I suppose could justify that with salvage from various M5s that was recovered.

So there people go. Some room to make the SLS Phoenix at least a little bit better.

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 04 May 2023, 23:33:23

the big drawback to the Baron i think, would be its lower thrust.. the M5's can all do 4/6 thrust, the Baron has half that.

the Vincent could keep up with a Caspar.. but would need to be massively rebuilt to be useful as anything other than a logistics transport for the squadron. (seriously, why did the SLDF ever think that 8 LL's, 4 NAC10's, and 2 barracuda missile tubes would be sufficient for a 400K tonnage ship?)

hmm.. i wonder just how much of a M5's capabilities you could shoehorn into a Vincent Mk39 without reducing its ~97.2K ton cargo bay below half? 48000 tons of cargo would still be 26 times what a normal M5 can carry, so you could make its defensive and offensive abilities useful and still use it as a support craft for DesRon 2 on longer deployments.

something i'll play around with when i get home from work tomorrow.

The other problem is I have established Piorun as being built as part of the fully refined SDS system so it's not completely impossible for me to accept a different hull but does mean she is most likely a Lola of some sort.

Daryk · « **Reply #41 on:** 05 May 2023, 16:46:13 »

Gio's idea could support that... 8)

monbvol · « **Reply #42 on:** 13 May 2023, 21:20:34 »

I do feel like if you're going to Caspar an Essex II you are also going to give it a much more usable ASF compliment and increase armor to the maximum the SI can mount and feel pretty justified.


Essex II Destroyer Caspar
Mass: 620,000 tons
Use: Destroyer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2711
Mass: 620,000
Battle Value: 72,305
Tech Rating/Availability: F/E-X-X-X
Cost: 12,619,341,600 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 615 m

Fuel: 1,200 tons (3,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 14
Heat Sinks: 746 (1492)
Structural Integrity: 60

Armor
    Nose: 81
    Fore Sides: 81/81
    Aft Sides: 81/81
    Aft: 77

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (12)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (69281.0 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    240 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (96 tons), 
    30 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (900 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (55 m)
Escape Pods: 6
Life Boats: 6
Crew:  35 officers, 142 enlisted/non-rated, 31 gunners, 44 bay personnel      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
   744 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (120 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
FRS/FLS (190 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (60 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (10 shots)
RBS/LBS (374 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                        104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                    270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC 
ARS/ALS (374 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                        104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                    270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC 
Aft (250 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             60   20(200) 20(200) 20(200)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (10 shots)

monbvol · « **Reply #43 on:** 13 May 2023, 21:27:39 »

And if you're having to salvage a Lola III and likewise stuffing a Caspar system in there...

Lola III Destroyer Caspar
Mass: 680,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2711
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 71,594
Tech Rating/Availability: F/E-X-X-X
Cost: 13,511,035,600 C-bills

Fuel: 1,200 tons (3,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 742 (1484)
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 96
    Fore Sides: 96/96
    Aft Sides: 96/96
    Aft: 94

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             1 Door    
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door    
    Bay 3:  Cargo (48026.0 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    400 rounds of NAC/10 ammunition (80 tons), 
    20 rounds of White Shark ammunition (800 tons), 
    50 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (1,500 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  38 officers, 143 enlisted/non-rated, 39 gunners, 32 bay personnel      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
   680 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (170 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                          170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (270 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 55                          255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)  15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    3(30)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (10 shots)
RBS/LBS (210 Heat)
4 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)               120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/10 Ammo (100 shots)
1 Naval Laser 45                          70   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)    5(45)   Capital Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)    20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (190 Heat)
4 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)               120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/10 Ammo (100 shots)
1 Naval Laser 45                          70   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)    5(45)   Capital Laser
Aft (350 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)    10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (10 shots)

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 May 2023, 03:54:35 »

Both look good.

One of the things I've always wondered, though, is how much effort up-armoring a ship would take. I don't think it's terribly difficult for 'Mech, or even aerospace fighters, and the rules consider them to be field rrefits, right? Is the same true for WarShips?

Daryk · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 May 2023, 05:42:32 »

I don't recall the field refit rules applying to WarShips...

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 May 2023, 05:58:47 »

Exactly. I think it’s one of those grey areas not really covered by the rules.

Daryk · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 May 2023, 08:12:58 »

Found it! The new Campaign Operations, page 205 has "Large Craft" on the Master Repair Table, and page 193 has "Location" modifiers for repair work, which is also referred to in the Customization rules on page 211. Page 212 says:

Quote

Large Spacecraft
DropShips, JumpShips, WarShips, and Space Stations can only be customized in repair bays (see p. 146, TO:AUE) of sufficient size to accommodate the vessel.

Looking back at page 193, I think that means you need at least a "Facility - Basic" to do ship customization. Don't forget the Zero-G (and possibly Vacuum) penalties.

monbvol · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 May 2023, 10:35:11 »

Which if they are stuffing in a full Caspar system they would need/have which means to me there should be little issue just slapping on more armor. Heck I thought about upping that Essex to Ferro Carbide instead of Improved Ferro Aluminum because you are going to have to pull most of the armor out of the way for the instillation anyway.

Daryk · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 May 2023, 11:39:54 »

Agreed... if you have access to better stuff, just install it... 8)

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #50 on:** 14 May 2023, 11:40:50 »

I think that would probably be reasonable, given your group has a sizable infrastructure in place.

monbvol · « **Reply #51 on:** 14 May 2023, 11:54:56 »

And this particular Essex and Lola refit are happening at Port Orphan so it'll also have Clan Snow Raven backing too.

I don't think they'd go so far as to uprate it to Clan standards or Lamelor Ferrocarbide but yeah a little extra armor does seem in order.

Essex II Destroyer Caspar
Mass: 620,000 tons
Use: Destroyer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2711
Mass: 620,000
Battle Value: 75,285
Tech Rating/Availability: F/E-X-X-X
Cost: 12,656,591,600 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 615 m

Fuel: 1,200 tons (3,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 14
Heat Sinks: 746 (1492)
Structural Integrity: 60

Armor
    Nose: 108
    Fore Sides: 104/104
    Aft Sides: 104/104
    Aft: 107

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (12)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (69281.0 tons)    1 Door    

Ammunition:
    240 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (96 tons), 
    30 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (900 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (55 m)
Escape Pods: 6
Life Boats: 6
Crew:  35 officers, 142 enlisted/non-rated, 31 gunners, 44 bay personnel      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
   744 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (120 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
FRS/FLS (190 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (60 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (10 shots)
RBS/LBS (374 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                        104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                    270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC 
ARS/ALS (374 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                        104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                    270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC 
Aft (250 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)             60   20(200) 20(200) 20(200)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  10   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (10 shots)

monbvol · « **Reply #52 on:** 16 May 2023, 22:34:27 »

Okay my take on Piorun:


Capital Drone M-5.3 'Caspar'
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Capital Drone
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental) 
Introduced: 2710
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 105,373
Tech Rating/Availability: F/F-X-X-X
Cost: 16,339,012,000 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 628 meters

Fuel: 4,000 tons (10,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 2500 (5000)
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 96
    Fore Sides: 96/96
    Aft Sides: 96/96
    Aft: 94

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  ARTS Small Craft (1)    1 Door    
    Bay 3:  Cargo (2546.0 tons)     1 Door    

Ammunition:
    60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (4,000 tons), 
    720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons), 
    120 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (4,800 tons), 
    1,200 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (480 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 1 (100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  39 officers, 164 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 25 bay personnel, 110 marines      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 SDS (Caspar) Drone Control System (Improved)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   680 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (790 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
FRS/FLS (823 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (300 shots)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  20   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)    2(20)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (10 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
RBS/LBS (125 Heat)
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher)  40   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AR10        
    AR10 Barracuda Ammo (40 shots)
    AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
ARS/ALS (803 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC  
    NAC/20 Ammo (300 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC 
3 Anti-Missile System                        3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (180 shots)
Aft (790 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Naval PPC (Heavy)                         450  30(300) 30(300) 30(300) 30(300)  Capital PPC

So really all that was done there was adding some AMS, add armor, add Large Naval Comm Scanner, add mobile HPG, remove the Self Destruct, remove the NAC-25s from a base Caspar. So basically an M-5.1 that kept the AR-10s in the broadsides.

Daryk · « **Reply #53 on:** 17 May 2023, 03:13:57 »

Nice! No White Sharks, though? ???

monbvol · « **Reply #54 on:** 17 May 2023, 08:30:46 »

None to pull from a stock M5 Caspar and strangely MegaMekLab does not seem to list them for AR10s either.

Daryk · « **Reply #55 on:** 17 May 2023, 17:24:43 »

That's weird indeed... ???

monbvol · « **Reply #56 on:** 18 May 2023, 22:42:23 »

Okay interesting question time.

So you know that Essex II I put up there? My best estimation is to even doing that would take just shy of three years.

Armor 631 points of Ferro Carbide takes 1262 hours.
ASF bays adding 6 would take 1008.
No SDS listed so I figure fair would be Avionics and CIC for a combined 152 hours.

Sub-total before refit modifier:

2422 hours.

My best guess is this would be a F level refit so multiply that by 10.

So 24220 hours. Or 33 months, 19 days, and 4 hours.

Daryk · « **Reply #57 on:** 19 May 2023, 03:24:13 »

I'm not seeing anything above level C? ???

Giovanni Blasini · « **Reply #58 on:** 19 May 2023, 04:02:47 »

As I dig through my books...which one has refit rules?

monbvol · « **Reply #59 on:** 19 May 2023, 07:01:40 »

Old Strat Ops or new Campaign Ops for customization rules.

The trouble for determining level of refit is there is no consideration for exactly what installing full SDS automation is. I tend to think with how much of the mass it consumes that it would be a very extensive and thus F level refit. But assuming installing that is indeed technically only a C that does help bring it down to 1 year 4 months 9 days and 16 hours.

But that also swings back to a thought shared between myself and Cannonshop, and I believe Gio as well. Just the primary core that houses the personality/memories/strategems while massive by computer standards should not take up very much of the mass demanded by the full finalized SDS automation. Most of that should be drones that handle low level/emergency combat repairs, extra redundancies, and other such things but even then I tend to think it does take up too much of a percentage of a units mass because really Warships should already be very heavily automated for anything other than low level/emergency combat repairs.