Author Topic: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 12 June v10.64  (Read 286780 times)

Daryk

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #630 on: 24 May 2021, 18:36:21 »
Waiting anxiously for the next rev...  :)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #631 on: 24 May 2021, 22:58:02 »
Amen to that.  And thanks to the both of you for the checking and updating!
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #632 on: 25 May 2021, 21:16:34 »
Ok, so I think you can consider most of these as optional since the availabilities involved are very low-frequency. That being said, this should be the complete list of 'Mechs whose availability in these RATs diverge from the listed MUL availabilities. So if you are aiming for complete synchronicity...
(I actually managed to find quite a few errors in my own notes in this process, too...)

I only managed to compare for 3028, 3039 and 3050. A lot of these are rare Intro-level tech, so it'd require me to do significantly more research to see what could plausibly still be around post-Clan Invasion.

I put my best guess at an availability rating (using the values from the tables in the PDF) for 'Mechs where the MUL implies something should be added.

Light 'Mechs
Flea FLE-14 -- remove everywhere (extinct in MUL)
Locust LCT-1E -- add to all factions who don't already have it for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and likely later) [Av = 1 to 3]
Thorn THE-N -- remove from DC in all years (looks like it is listed for DC in Hist:3039 but retconned in TRO-3039 to DC having only the THE-S and THE-T, and MUL goes with TRO... the A* RAT in Hist:3039 looked like it has multiple errata after further review)
Commando COM-1B -- add to Lyrans in 3028, 3039, and 3050 (unclear later) [Av = 1]
Commando COM-2D -- add to Merc/Periph Gen, OWA, MoC in 3028 [Av = 1 to 2]
Falcon FLC-4N -- remove everywhere (only available to WD and Comstar and extinct by Civil War)
Hermes HER-1A -- remove from all but FWL in 3028, 3039, 3050 (and most likely later)
Hermes HER-1B -- remove from all but FWL in 3028, 3039, 3050 (and most likely later)
Valkyrie VLK-QA -- add to Taurians in 3028 [Av = 1 or 2]
Jenner JR7-D -- add to all factions who don't already have it for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and likely later) [Av = 1 to 3]
Panther PNT-9R -- add to all factions who don't already have it *except FWL* for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and likely later) [Av = 1 to 3]

Medium 'Mechs
Assassin ASN-21 -- add to CC in 3028, 3039, and 3050 (and likely later), and add to SIC in 3039 [Av = 1 or 2]
Sentinel STN-3K -- add to DC in 3028 (ok in other years... turns out they had some pre-Myndo) [Av = 1 or 2]
Hermes II HER-2S -- add to CC, DC, MoC in 3028, 3039, and 3050 (and likely later) [Av = 1 or 2]
Centurion CN9-A -- add to MoC, OWA, Taurians in 3028 [Av = 1 or 2]
Centurion CN9-AH -- add to all factions who don't already have it for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and maybe later) [Av = 1, maybe 2 for some]
Centurion CN9-AL -- add to all factions who don't already have it for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and maybe later) [Av = 1, maybe 2 for some]
Cronus CNS-3M -- remove from CC in 3039, 3050 (and most likely later)
Kintaro KTO-18 -- add to DC and/or DC-A* in 3039 and 3050 (and most likely later ...apparently they got both the upgraded and Intro tech variants from Comstar) [Av =2 or 3]
Scorpion SCP-1N -- add to Lyrans in 3028, 3039, and 3050 (not clear if later) [Av = 1]
Gladiator GLD-3R -- technically remove from all but Merc/Periph General in 3028, but honestly, I'd rather see it updated in the MUL to have IS-General availability for the LSW and Clan Invasion eras, if you can pull any strings with Team MUL  ;)  It's technically consistent with either outcome, as they are with "planetary militias and low-tier mercenary commands" (TRO:SW)
Gladiator GLD-4R -- same issue/lobbying request as for GLD-3R

Heavy 'Mechs
Champion CHP-2N -- remove from MoC, OWA, and Taurians, and maybe Merc/Periphery Gen, too (available to Mercs in MUL, but not Periph-Gen)
Dragon DRG-1C -- remove from Merc/Periph Gen (available to DC and FRR only, extinct by Civil War)
Merlin MLN-1A -- remove from all Houses in 3028, 3039, 3050, and 3057 (only Merc and OWA availability in MUL thru 3061, then rest of Periphery only)
Catapult CPLT-C1 -- add to Merc/Periph Gen, MoC, OWA, and Taurians in 3028 (available to all in MUL) [Av = 1 to 3]
Guillotine GLT-4P -- remove from CC, DC, FS, Lyrans in 3028, 3039, 3050, and 3057 (only available to FWL, Mercs, and all Periph in MUL, then extinct by Civil War)
Orion ON1-V -- remove from MoC and OWA in 3028 (only Taurians and Marians have it in the MUL)
Orion ON1-VA -- remove from MoC, OWA, and Taurians, and maybe Merc/Periphery Gen, too (available to Mercs in MUL, but not Periph-Gen)

Assault 'Mechs
Awesome AWS-8T -- remove from MoC, OWA, and Taurians, and maybe Merc/Periphery Gen, too (available to Mercs in MUL, but not Periph-Gen)
Awesome AWS-8V -- remove from MoC, OWA, and Taurians, and maybe Merc/Periphery Gen, too (available to Mercs in MUL, but not Periph-Gen)
Charger CGR-1A1 -- add to FWL in 3028, 3039, and 3050 (and maybe later) (don't know what they did to deserve this...) [Av = 1]
Goliath GOL-1H -- remove from DC and FS in 3028 and 3039 (keep 3050 and later) (diffuses to all factions starting in 3050 in MUL)
Striker STC-2C -- remove from all but CC, SIC, and Lyrans in all years
Thug THG-11E -- remove from DC-A* in 3039 only (must get refits from 3050 forward)
Striker STC-2C -- remove from all but CC, SIC, and Lyrans in all years
Crockett CRK-5003-0 -- remove from DC in all years (extinct by Late SW era; DC also doesn't have CRK-5003-1 just in case it's a typo. They only get the Katana)
Cyclops CP-10-Q -- remove from MoC, OWA, and Taurians, and maybe Merc/Periphery Gen, too (available to Mercs in MUL, but not Periph-Gen)
Atlas AS7-RS -- all to all factions who do not have it in 3028, 3039, 3050 (and likely later) (available to all in MUL) [Av = 1 to 3]







Xotl

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #633 on: 25 May 2021, 23:27:12 »
Some of these are either MUL mistakes or differing methodologies regarding salvage (I don't put salvage mechs directly on a list, but use a "Salvage" entry to encompass all of that, so Panthers, for instance, won't be going on my Davion and Steiner charts directly).

The Merlin was always 100% supposition on my part, and if the MUL has gone with not having it, then I'll follow.  So I'll cut those.

Looks like the most recent Thorn entry is pretty clear, so I'll cut the -N from the Combine.  Good spot on the -20 Kintaro being added as well.  Need to re-review the Crockett

The Commando -1B I could have sworn I already had on there, so that will be (re)added.

Not sure if I'll be changing anything else, but I'll let you know once I post a revised version.
« Last Edit: 26 May 2021, 10:02:48 by Xotl »
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Daryk

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #634 on: 26 May 2021, 04:04:23 »
I thought the MUL was based on your work, Xotl?  ???

nckestrel

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #635 on: 26 May 2021, 06:27:48 »
I thought the MUL was based on your work, Xotl?  ???

Um, no.
The MUL is based on canon sources and arcane rituals.
Xotl is a (very valued) MUL team member and is an important part of the arcane rituals, but the MUL is in not based on his own personal work.
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jasonf

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #636 on: 26 May 2021, 07:52:54 »
Many of these are either MUL mistakes or differing methodologies regarding salvage (I don't put salvage mechs directly on a list, but use a "Salvage" entry to encompass all of that, so Panthers, for instance, won't be going on my Davion and Steiner charts directly).
I figured there might be a good deal of this going on, especially given the rarities of some of these for various factions. For example, if 5% of Taurian 'Mechs are Davion salvage, and 12% if Davion Light 'Mechs are VLK-QA Valkyries, they are just as likely to get one as Salvage as if you gave them an Av = 1 probability of getting it directly.

Looks like the most recent Thorn entry is pretty clear, so I'll cut the -N from the Combine.  Good spot on the -20 Kintaro being added as well.  Need to re-review the Crockett
I went and re-read TRO3050U. Looks like the fluff for both 'Mechs describes the Comstar-DC transaction as follows:
1. Comstar gives them the entire Blankenburg plant on Soul. It has a good deal of Crockett chassis in it
2. Kurita strips down the chassis to create the "Katana" so that no one notices they got a new plant full of Crocketts
3. Kurita turns the plant into an Independence Weapons shell company and uses the stripped down equipment + an adjoining weapons plant to spread LosTech through the Combine while producing Katanas there.

The MUL is based on canon sources and arcane rituals.
Xotl is a (very valued) MUL team member and is an important part of the arcane rituals, but the MUL is in not based on his own personal work.

Are these arcane rituals more weird or less weird when done via Zoom call?  ???




Sartris

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #637 on: 26 May 2021, 08:22:18 »
Are these arcane rituals more weird or less weird when done via Zoom call?  ???

i have to make sure the lights are on in my office when jymset performs the incantations in german as it's rather terrifying

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Xotl

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #638 on: 26 May 2021, 09:33:36 »
I thought the MUL was based on your work, Xotl?  ???

I am a member of the MUL team, but that's all.  I contributed, but the vast bulk of the work was done by others, and I'm anything but a MUL linchpin these days.  On top of that, the nature of our projects are different, based on approach and infrastructure demands.  We'll link up most of the time, as we rely on the same source base, but there won't be 100% commonality.

I also shouldn't have been posting so blithely late at night: what I stated rather sweepingly as "MUL mistakes" could at times be simply matters of differing interpretation.  I'll have to hit the source base on a few to double check if there's room to go either way.
« Last Edit: 26 May 2021, 09:49:52 by Xotl »
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BigDuke66

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #639 on: 26 May 2021, 09:35:28 »
i have to make sure the lights are on in my office when jymset performs the incantations in german as it's rather terrifying
Can't complain about a good old German ceremony.

Sartris

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #640 on: 26 May 2021, 11:16:24 »
"MUL mistakes"

my first thought was "WHERE?"



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Xotl

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #641 on: 26 May 2021, 11:24:46 »
heh

The Flea -14, the Assassin, the Locust -1E, the Scorpion.  I fixed the Locust about a week ago (newer 1st Succession War fluff) and the Flea today (misread of the era of the book vs the introduction telling us when the writeups were set in).  The Assassin and Scorpion I assume are based on the way the MUL is set up, which doesn't lend itself to "all except this one faction has it"-type allocations, but TR 3025 says that Liao has no Assassins and 3025 and 3039 say that the Lyrans scrapped their Scorpions for the engines parts by 3026: no later fluff has ever contradicted these bits.
« Last Edit: 26 May 2021, 21:25:40 by Xotl »
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Sartris

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #642 on: 26 May 2021, 11:31:08 »
ah yeah, i remember the scorpion and assassin bits from something else.

but as long as it's not like some of that republic era stuff like "four houses, three FWL substates, two periphery, and half the clans," the "all but" entries aren't too laborious

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #643 on: 26 May 2021, 12:48:27 »
...3025 and 3039 say that the Lyrans scrapped their Scorpions for the engines by 3026...

The question arises: why? Which other unit (Mech or hover) had a 330 engine at that time?
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Xotl

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #644 on: 26 May 2021, 12:53:28 »
The question arises: why? Which other unit (Mech or hover) had a 330 engine at that time?

I misremembered: it just says they scrapped them for "parts" in general.  There's no mention of engines specifically.
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #645 on: 26 May 2021, 13:03:03 »
Panther PNT-9R -- add to all factions who don't already have it *except FWL* for 3028, 3039, 3050 (and likely later) [Av = 1 to 3]

I know this has been superseded, but for some reason the PNT-9R shows up on the F, D, and C columns of the RAT in FM: FWL.

For some reason I had it in my head the Gladiator was long extinct by the late Succession Wars era, I thought that had even been talked about as a matter of course in a MotW discussion. I'm pleased to see I was wrong and some are still kicking around.
« Last Edit: 26 May 2021, 13:14:03 by Middcore »
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Daryk

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #646 on: 26 May 2021, 17:25:26 »
Thanks for the clarifications Xotl and nckestrel!  :thumbsup:

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #647 on: 26 May 2021, 20:12:31 »
The Flea -14, the Assassin, the Locust -1E, the Scorpion.  I fixed the Locust about a week ago (newer 1st Succession War fluff) and the Flea today (misread of the era of the book vs the introduction telling us when the writeups were set in).  The Assassin and Scorpion I assume are based on the way the MUL is set up, which doesn't lend itself to "all except this one faction has it"-type allocations, but TR 3025 says that Liao has no Assassins and 3025 and 3039 say that the Lyrans scrapped their Scorpions for the engines by 3026: no later fluff has ever contradicted these bits.

The PNT-9R definitely follows the "all except" format (though it sounds like it's inconsistent with FM: FWL RATs).

Is it worth posting some of the other ones I listed where the MUL could use an update in the MUL errata thread? If so, I can go back to the fluff on the more borderline ones to see what may need a fix.

Also, do you guys ever post changelogs in the Errata thread for errata you guys find on your own?

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 24 May v10.57
« Reply #648 on: 26 May 2021, 20:46:49 »
We don’t, no

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 26 May v10.6
« Reply #649 on: 27 May 2021, 00:30:10 »
Okay, updates:

3028, 3039, 3050, 3057 all Houses: removed Merlin

3039, 3050, 3057 Kurita: removed Thorn -N, increased Thorn -T and -S to compensate
3039, 3050, 3057 Kurita: added Kintaro -18, jiggled 3057 Kintaro numbers in general
3039, 3050, 3057 Kurita: increased Crockett numbers to reflect that they got the whole factory (and kept them climbing over time).  Now it starts with more downgraded -0s, and the -2s slowly climb to replace them.

3028, 3039, 3050, 3057 Lyran: added Commando -1B (and dropped -3A numbers heavily in 3028)

Hopefully that's the end of it.
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Daryk

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 26 May v10.6
« Reply #650 on: 27 May 2021, 03:24:53 »
Excellent!  I'll download the latest this coming weekend.  :thumbsup:

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 26 May v10.6
« Reply #651 on: 28 May 2021, 15:09:18 »
Hey, sorry to bug you with more bugs, but I think I found a couple more. They look to be spreadsheet/copy-paste related...

1. There are a few places where the probability of rolling a 'Mech is < 0. Looks like all are from a row being off by one:
--3050 DC Mediums: WVR-6K
--3057 FS A/B Mediums: ASN-23 and CLNT-2-3T
--3057 LYR C/D/F Lights: pretty much the whole bottom half of the table

2. The Capellan C/D/F tables still have some "**" second-line icons on some 'Mechs. Don't know if that's intentional since they disappear from all of the other C/D/F tables in 3057


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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 28 May v10.61
« Reply #652 on: 28 May 2021, 16:06:29 »
Excellent: all fixed.  Thanks!
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 28 May v10.61
« Reply #653 on: 28 May 2021, 22:48:57 »
Just noticed the Kurita Mech table for 3028-3029 is labeled as 3028-2039.

Wish it was only ~18 years until I could get a WHM-6K ...

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 28 May v10.61
« Reply #654 on: 30 May 2021, 22:12:10 »
Just noticed the Kurita Mech table for 3028-3029 is labeled as 3028-2039.

Wish it was only ~18 years until I could get a WHM-6K ...

Fixed, thanks.
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 30 May v10.62
« Reply #655 on: 04 June 2021, 07:25:25 »
Hi Xotl, my mod uses your tables over time and interpolates between the tables, however one thing is confusing us a little, it's the Cyclops 11-C availability to the great houses.  The 11-C is a C3 Master mech.  Are they also buying slave units and cramming them in other 'Mechs, are they using the 'Mech outside of a network?  Doing our own research we can only find talk of Kurita using the C3 network in 3050, but figured there must be a reason for you to spread that 'Mech around.

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 30 May v10.62
« Reply #656 on: 04 June 2021, 10:54:57 »
Yeah, that looks like an error to me (it's also not marked with a Lostech table flag on the C/D/F tables, indicating that I missed what its true nature was).  In 3050 C3 isn't really spread to the other Houses, so it doesn't make much sense.  Even in 3057, there's not much to use it with.  I'll pull it from all non-Drac tables and issue a fix.  Thanks!
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 30 May v10.62
« Reply #657 on: 05 June 2021, 21:42:02 »
Yeah, that looks like an error to me (it's also not marked with a Lostech table flag on the C/D/F tables, indicating that I missed what its true nature was).  In 3050 C3 isn't really spread to the other Houses, so it doesn't make much sense.  Even in 3057, there's not much to use it with.  I'll pull it from all non-Drac tables and issue a fix.  Thanks!

Appreciated!

Caused a bit of confusion of how to handle the spread of C3 for a bit there ;)

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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 June v10.63
« Reply #658 on: 07 June 2021, 13:22:23 »
Updated, changing the non-Drac 3050 and 3057 assault mech tables to toss the Cyclops.  Thanks!
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Re: 3028-3057 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables - 7 June v10.63
« Reply #659 on: 12 June 2021, 16:41:45 »
I've been working on an automated version of these tables while I reteach myself how to code and noticed that the values for lyran's 3039 light mechs are extremely messed up starting from 823 onwards.

 

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