BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: Moragion on 29 November 2020, 06:49:06
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Althought I enjoyed the videogame a lot (and still do), the retcon made by the House Arano book poses a few problems to me. As we have no other mention of the nation in any other book released afterwards (if there is any, please tell :)), it is my opinion that the Aurigan Coalition must have fallen some time later of the book events. This is my take on this:
As the FS began the 4th SW with their invasion of the CC, the Taurian government, in its paranoia, began to look again towards the Coalition as a loose end, a liability on their flank. Seeing Davion spies and puppets everywhere, they take things in their hands, but to not endanger their defenses, the TC begins to hire some mercenary commands, company size at most, to deal with the aurigans in a covert way, posing as pirates, hitting the borders, destabilizing even more the delicate situation in Coalition space.
As the Magistracy keeps looking more and more towards Andurien and the CC, it gives less and less suport to the aurigans.
The death knell comes with the ending of the 4SW and the beginning of the Andurien-Magistracy invasion of the CC. All suport is cut out, as the Magestrix focus completely on her war. Seeing the opportunity the TC invades the Aurigan Coalition to deal the last blow, forcing a "devious davion sympathizer" out of the game table. The Tc absorbs some Coalition worlds, and the rest devolve into independent entities, some failing to be viable. The Aurigan Coalition is no more, a footnote on history books about the Periphery as another failed state.
I'm thinking of even using this scenario as the setting of a ATOW game, with the players being mercenaries contracted to deal with the Coalition, and all the moral dilemmas they will have to deal with.
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Pretty much what I figured. I was operating under the belief Kamea gets killed by at least 3030 with no heirs and the entire thing unravels into independent worlds.
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Doesn't even have to be a full on conflict. Most of the lords of those worlds seemed willing enough to team up with whoever gave them any advantage. I'd imagine a number of lords of those worlds changed flags rather quickly when the political winds shifted. The Coalition was precarious at best.
One obvious military blunder by Kamea and those lords would be HPGing the Taurians for security before the lasers cooled off.
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Pretty much what I figured. I was operating under the belief Kamea gets killed by at least 3030 with no heirs and the entire thing unravels into independent worlds.
Yeah, I figure Kamea dying in battle on Coromodir.
Doesn't even have to be a full on conflict. Most of the lords of those worlds seemed willing enough to team up with whoever gave them any advantage. I'd imagine a number of lords of those worlds changed flags rather quickly when the political winds shifted. The Coalition was precarious at best.
One obvious military blunder by Kamea and those lords would be HPGing the Taurians for security before the lasers cooled off.
The thing here is that the majority of the aurigan worlds are not absorbed into the Concordat, specially the core systems, which to me means that they don't ally with the TC, but instead are thrown into independence, either by choice (kind of an "every man for himself" situation) or by force. Perhaps the taurians promote independence movements in those planets to further debilitate the Coalition before dealing the final blow.
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Or maybe minor enough to escape notice. That's alot of retconning needed to mention them in every publication otherwise.
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There is a mention of them in the newest RecGuide thought I believe its in the Succession Wars era section
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If they'd been stuck out past FWL space, the Marians would have been nomming them in the 50's/60's.
As it was, neither the Taurians nor the Canopians were particularly interested in annexing them.
Although that makes me wonder. How does their territory look next to that of the Fronc Reaches?
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If they'd been stuck out past FWL space, the Marians would have been nomming them in the 50's/60's.
As it was, neither the Taurians nor the Canopians were particularly interested in annexing them.
Although that makes me wonder. How does their territory look next to that of the Fronc Reaches?
little to no overlap to my knowledge.
by the 3100's the aurigan confederacy's area has largely been absorbed by the CapCon though.
correction.. the Capcon didn't take over Aurigan Coalition space, just the previously unclaimed parts of the reach.
3025 map of the Reach:
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/99/RimwardPeriphery3025.jpg?timestamp=20170221195513)
vs the 3130 map of the Capcon: (their periphery border basically does not change between 3130's grey monday and 3150)
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/25/CC-3130.png?timestamp=20130816080034)
Fronc and the CapCon basically eat up the unclaimed parts of the 3025 map, 'west' of the coalition.
the Taurians gobble up some of the eastward worlds of the Coalition after the 4th succession war (Aea, Regis Roost, and based on the location of the border, probably Katinka, Artru, and Qalzi) but Brinton actually seems to have left the TC in the process, likely falling under the sway of the Coalition. (of course i can't find any mention of Brinton on the pre-HBS maps..)
3040 map, after the TC's big colonization push in the 3030's:
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/7/77/TC-3040.png?timestamp=20131216221832)
they basically shrink after that but their border on that side basically remains unchanged even into the 3130's
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/21/Taurian_Concordat_3130.png?timestamp=20110922180958)
so basically, i don't see any reason that some form of the Coalition couldn't still exist. it would just be overshadowed by all their neighbors.
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We know that the Magistracy of Canopus are the only faction which officially recognizes the Aurigan Coalition, and it is never stated in the game or the sourcebook why the other powers don't.
My theory has always been that Taurian "Expansion" was actually a "Reconquista" of sorts that ended up depopulating some worlds(Remember Taurians are NOT signatories of the Ares Conventions).
I could see the Taurians agreeing to suspend the raids of Magistracy companies that operate in the independent worlds(like Majesty Metals and Manufacturing from the first campaign mission after the tutorial). Kyalla is also more interested in invasion plans of the CapCon with the Anduriens, so it is easy to see why she agrees to cut support for the Aurigans in exchange for not hindrance from the Taurians.
Also of note is a planet revealed in Interstellar Players 3(a product which came out BEFORE the HBS game): https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aurigae
Althought I enjoyed the videogame a lot (and still do), the retcon made by the House Arano book poses a few problems to me. As we have no other mention of the nation in any other book released afterwards (if there is any, please tell :)), it is my opinion that the Aurigan Coalition must have fallen some time later of the book events. This is my take on this:
As the FS began the 4th SW with their invasion of the CC, the Taurian government, in its paranoia, began to look again towards the Coalition as a loose end, a liability on their flank. Seeing Davion spies and puppets everywhere, they take things in their hands, but to not endanger their defenses, the TC begins to hire some mercenary commands, company size at most, to deal with the aurigans in a covert way, posing as pirates, hitting the borders, destabilizing even more the delicate situation in Coalition space.
As the Magistracy keeps looking more and more towards Andurien and the CC, it gives less and less suport to the aurigans.
The death knell comes with the ending of the 4SW and the beginning of the Andurien-Magistracy invasion of the CC. All suport is cut out, as the Magestrix focus completely on her war. Seeing the opportunity the TC invades the Aurigan Coalition to deal the last blow, forcing a "devious davion sympathizer" out of the game table. The Tc absorbs some Coalition worlds, and the rest devolve into independent entities, some failing to be viable. The Aurigan Coalition is no more, a footnote on history books about the Periphery as another failed state.
I'm thinking of even using this scenario as the setting of a ATOW game, with the players being mercenaries contracted to deal with the Coalition, and all the moral dilemmas they will have to deal with.
What I have stated above is my own take on that.
Also other things to consider for your campaign:
1) Ana-Maria Centrella was a huge advocate for the Aurigan Coalition, so why was she unable to get through to her cousin. What happened to her? DId she have some role in Emma's ascension.
2) Why was the Aurigan Coalition wiped so cleanly from the record? Is there something about the Coalition that Comstar(or somebody) wanted to hide?
3) What happened to High Lady Arano and her Chief Advisors, including the Arano nobility?
4) Is there a connection between the Aurigan Coalition and the Aurigae system in the Rimward Deep Periphery?
5) Why are most of the Aurigan Coalition systems gone by the 3040s(and not just the Coalition itself)?
Best of luck with your campaign!
Make sure to share it here, so we can see how it turns out.
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(of course i can't find any mention of Brinton on the pre-HBS maps..)
Brinton appears on the 2750 map in Handbook Major Periphery States, and is listed as a Taurian system in the Objectives: Periphery book.
A possible in universe explanation might be that as a world under quarantine, it's kept off of regular charts. Another option is that, again, as a world under quarantine, it's actual status within the Concordat is fuzzy, possibly having de-facto independence.
A third option is that someone forgot to put it on the maps a long time ago and subsequent writers decided to keep it that way as an in-joke. ;D
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That happens.
Databases get corrupted and are not usable then they are bound to be reviewed. So suddenly the Comstar survey guys that need to review the planets for their relevance skyp over Brinton because they do not know they need to check he planet at those coordinates. And he remains in obscurity despite having rebounded and being mildly relevant again.
This happens in the real world today. I am convinced it will happen in the future as well.
Regarding the Reach, the importance of most of the Aurigan planets is purely local. They will not appear in a sphere-wide map. Coromodir, probably, and a few others. I am fairly sure some of the fouding planets like Guldra or are not relevant enough for a Comstar map. Let alone small outposts like Weldry. habitable planet, yes. Important in a local small power's structure, yes. relevant in an interstellar map, no.
I also think that the reach after kamea desintegrates. I think it even desintagrates DURING Kamea's reign. she is not shown to be a specially good ruler. It is only because she has the MoC bankrolling her that she is able to regain her realm. She muscles her way to power the same way that the Spinosas did, and we are not shown if she rules well at all. My guess it is that she is not a great ruler there and the whole thing unravels into independent planets again. Planets that trade with each other and are amicable, but to each one his own and each one protects itself from external treats like pirates. So they are not a polity anymore.
The Fronc Reaches can be seen as taking some of its steps to strengthen the relations between its former planets and to spread the benefits of belonging (production in one planet, military academy in another,...) as they have learned from the previous Aurigan experience.
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Brinton appears on the 2750 map in Handbook Major Periphery States, and is listed as a Taurian system in the Objectives: Periphery book.
It's also on the map on p. 37 of Field Report 2765: Periphery.
That map has Brinton, Girondas, Qalzi, Katinka, Artru, Gangtok, Guldra, Heliat, Coromodir, Rockwellawan and Portland as the TC's Brinton region, with the Brinton Defenders headquartered on Rockwellawan (1st), Artru (2nd) and Brinton (3rd).
Umgard, Smithon, Tyrlon, Itrom and all mapped systems "north and west" of that angle are Capellan, including namely Mangzhandian, Mechdur, Panzyr, Enkra, Bringdam, and Weldry. Only Herotitus is independent.
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What I have stated above is my own take on that.
Also other things to consider for your campaign:
1) Ana-Maria Centrella was a huge advocate for the Aurigan Coalition, so why was she unable to get through to her cousin. What happened to her? DId she have some role in Emma's ascension.
2) Why was the Aurigan Coalition wiped so cleanly from the record? Is there something about the Coalition that Comstar(or somebody) wanted to hide?
3) What happened to High Lady Arano and her Chief Advisors, including the Arano nobility?
4) Is there a connection between the Aurigan Coalition and the Aurigae system in the Rimward Deep Periphery?
5) Why are most of the Aurigan Coalition systems gone by the 3040s(and not just the Coalition itself)?
Best of luck with your campaign!
Make sure to share it here, so we can see how it turns out.
1) Considering the personality of Kyalla, I think it is quite probable Ana Maria was unable to convince her. Your hint to the possible support of Ana Maria to Emma is intriguing, I can see it totally happen
2)The thing is that only the Magistracy recognized the Coalition. I think ComStar simply didn't consider the Aurigan important enough to deserve any report. Probably a footnote that was archived once the Coalition fell. If you want to go to the ComStar conspiracy thing, maybe they knew of the Star League Cache, but not the exact location. With the destruction of the cache, there was no real reason for ComStar to keep tabs on an insignificant periphery state.
3) Thinking of my campaign I would say that the mercs will kidnap Madeira, the closest friend to Kamea, and lure her into a trap, one htat she will not escape, although have not thought the details yet. Outside my campaign my guess is she falls during the defense of Coromodir. Of the other nobles, some fall, but most simply become independent and fade into obscurity.
4)Beyond the name, no, I would think not. But you can always make it a last retreat of the Coalition people, a kind of Exodus.
5)Many planets have disappeared from the maps during the centuries since the fall of the Star League. Considering the unimportance of those systems, it is a plausible explanation. They simply don't matter enough to appear on maps, or simply their coordinates have been lost. Many of those planets will probably fail, become uninhabited.
Don't know if I will ever be able to make the campaign, but if it happens, will surely share the results.
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eh.. i dislike the idea that she's assassinated. from the intro to the game (which is after the restoration) it sounds like the Coalition was in big trouble even while she was alive.
3030 seems to a common theme date wise here.
what else is going on at that time?
the Andurien Succession (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Andurien_Secession). where the Magistracy allied with the Anduriens in a failed attempt to invade the CapCon.
as a Magistracy ally, the reformed Coalition would very likely have been swept up in that mess. and being right on the CapCon border, it is likely that the Coalition would have suffered a number of heavy raids during the Capellan counter-offensive of 3034-3035, which given their already limited military and industrial base, could have seen some pretty nasty results. especially if an inability for the Arano government to stop these raids causes the other Aurigan ruling houses to break ties with the Arano's. leading to a political crisis that likely would see several worlds breaking away from the Coalition to join the Taurians.
(worth noting too that in 3034 the CC world of Larsha, on the capcon/aurigan border, was raided by unknown periphery troops, as seen in the opening of the novel "Close Quarters". The identity of the raiders was never given in the novel or any later works. Perhaps those were Aurigan troops (either Mercs or Rampart Company) conducting attacks in support of Magistracy strategic plans. the PPC armed Atlas with the raiders would have been an odd sight in an aurigan unit, but not outside of possibility. especially for mercs)
and as far as Comstar goes.. my guess is that there are a large number of star league sites in the region (mentioned in the game, though only one (on Artru) is visited) and comstar wants to minimize the attention to aurigan's get politically in order to keep them from growing big enough to hinder comstar's efforts to locate, control, and salvage these sites.
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The Aurigan Coalition was never taken serious as a state - only the Magistracy ever recognized them as a state for political reasons, namely to deny the Aurigan systems to the Taurian expansion plans.
Literally everybody else considered the Coalition merely a mercantile association of independent and mostly hardscrabble worlds, many of them former TC or CC holdings.
It stands to reason that the Aurigan Coalition was not a functional state after all, Espinosa Coup and Arano Restoration civil war nonwithstanding.
Take the Oberon Confederation for comparison: It was, as of 3025, still widely regarded as primarily a pirate realm on the verge of becoming a proper state, even though it had existed for much longer than the Coalition, had a larger military, and was at least as well organized.
From the Inner Sphere viewpoint, the Coalition was a bunch of independent worlds and/or pirate realms. It didn't so much fail after 3028 as it never really got off the ground in the first place. Mercantile coalition yes, nation no.
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found a map of the Reach as of 3150 (its the map of the systems around Regis roost from the sarna page.)
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/f/f0/Regis_Roost_3151.svg?timestamp=20200214160334)
looks like the capcon poached some of the 'northern' Coalition worlds after the Jihad (as the border pre-jihad basically was unchanged since the 3020's)
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For the RPG campaign.... What if those worlds now under Aurigan control were SLDF staging grounds during the periphery war? They were low in population and importance, so they were perfect as staging points for the regiments of the SLDF. When they SLDF packed up to leave, they mothballed their stuff for the next periphery war (there was bound to be one in the future). its location relatively near 2 of the major periphery powers was a strategic location.
This is why there are a few castle Brians around. And why Comstar has an interest in it. And why some merchants playing stupid around those facilities with happy trigger mercenaries is not something Comstar wants. They might discover something that should be left alone.
Some assassinations here, some holy shrouds there, and everything becomes quiet and backwater and as it should be again.
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found a map of the Reach as of 3150 (its the map of the systems around Regis roost from the sarna page.)
Bear in mind this isn't an official map. It's an auto-generated map based on the system ownership data Sarna has for 3150.
Also mind the map legend. Black dots indicate systems that have been marked as "abandoned" - these systems would not appear on contemporary in-universe maps (be they truly abandoned, or simply too unimportant to bother). White dots are independent systems. So it's pretty empty out there by 3150.
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actually sarna marks worlds as "abandoned" when they don't appear on maps. most of those only ever appeared on the Aurigan reach map in the house arano sourcebook and HBS game. thus sarna counts them as 'abandoned' because they only have data for 3023, and on all others they are "world not appearing in this map" (always check the historiography of the map data.)
so we can't draw any conclusions on the status of those worlds in the post 4thsuccession war era based on the map code, since as far as the map is concerned they would code as 'abandoned' on every map except the one of the aurigan reach. both before the 2020's and after. where they are quite alive and from the history in the sourcebook, have been so for many generations. despite the other maps of from centuries never including them.
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For the RPG campaign.... What if those worlds now under Aurigan control were SLDF staging grounds during the periphery war? They were low in population and importance, so they were perfect as staging points for the regiments of the SLDF. When they SLDF packed up to leave, they mothballed their stuff for the next periphery war (there was bound to be one in the future). its location relatively near 2 of the major periphery powers was a strategic location.
This is why there are a few castle Brians around. And why Comstar has an interest in it. And why some merchants playing stupid around those facilities with happy trigger mercenaries is not something Comstar wants. They might discover something that should be left alone.
Some assassinations here, some holy shrouds there, and everything becomes quiet and backwater and as it should be again.
I would prefer not to play the card of the SLDF cache. In my mind the one on the videogame is the only one, and after its destruction there is no interest for ComStar on that area beyond the HPG message service. But even the, some ComStar interaction is a must ;)
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eh.. i dislike the idea that she's assassinated. from the intro to the game (which is after the restoration) it sounds like the Coalition was in big trouble even while she was alive.
3030 seems to a common theme date wise here.
what else is going on at that time?
the Andurien Succession (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Andurien_Secession). where the Magistracy allied with the Anduriens in a failed attempt to invade the CapCon.
as a Magistracy ally, the reformed Coalition would very likely have been swept up in that mess. and being right on the CapCon border, it is likely that the Coalition would have suffered a number of heavy raids during the Capellan counter-offensive of 3034-3035, which given their already limited military and industrial base, could have seen some pretty nasty results. especially if an inability for the Arano government to stop these raids causes the other Aurigan ruling houses to break ties with the Arano's. leading to a political crisis that likely would see several worlds breaking away from the Coalition to join the Taurians.
(worth noting too that in 3034 the CC world of Larsha, on the capcon/aurigan border, was raided by unknown periphery troops, as seen in the opening of the novel "Close Quarters". The identity of the raiders was never given in the novel or any later works. Perhaps those were Aurigan troops (either Mercs or Rampart Company) conducting attacks in support of Magistracy strategic plans. the PPC armed Atlas with the raiders would have been an odd sight in an aurigan unit, but not outside of possibility. especially for mercs)
and as far as Comstar goes.. my guess is that there are a large number of star league sites in the region (mentioned in the game, though only one (on Artru) is visited) and comstar wants to minimize the attention to aurigan's get politically in order to keep them from growing big enough to hinder comstar's efforts to locate, control, and salvage these sites.
Considering the situation the Coalition is in after their civil war, as stated on the House book, I don't see them going to support the MC on a war against an successor state that is closer to them than to the Magistracy. Even thought the AC conducts some coverts operations on capellan soil (that much is said on the book), Kamea doesn't seems like someone to be drawn into a war.
It is more like the Magistracy losing interest in supporting the Coalition in favor of supporting Andurien in their capellan adventure.
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Considering the situation the Coalition is in after their civil war, as stated on the House book, I don't see them going to support the MC on a war against an successor state that is closer to them than to the Magistracy. Even thought the AC conducts some coverts operations on capellan soil (that much is said on the book), Kamea doesn't seems like someone to be drawn into a war.
It is more like the Magistracy losing interest in supporting the Coalition in favor of supporting Andurien in their capellan adventure.
i agree that the coalition was not in a position to substantially engage in warfare with a larger power. and under normal circumstances i suspect they wouldn't get involved. but remember that the magistracy bankrolled the restoration (including physical assets in the form of getting the Argo operational) and gave Kamea sanctuary after the Directorate took over. this means that the Magistracy has a lot of markers they can call in politically from Kamea.. not to mention the fact that the magistracy has likely been bankrolling the reconstruction after the war, through trade if not direct funding. a threat to cut those ties would be a very powerful lever to get the Coalition to side with the magistracy on the issue. and it is possible that the Coalition wouldn't be involved directly, instead perhaps being used as a staging ground for magistracy controlled forces to strike at the CapCon, presumably to tie up troops that would otherwise be used to reinforce the Andurien border. given the location of Larsha, the raiders would pretty much have to be passing through Coalition controlled systems, which makes it unlikely they were independent pirates.
and whether the raiders were Coalition aligned or not, the inevitable Counter-raids would certainly have fallen on Coalition worlds, since the CapCon would certainly assume the Coalition was, if not the culprits, harboring them.
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I suggested the SLDF tie in because it seem a trope of the HBS game. I do not like that solution myself, but it is a very common feature in the game. Having it would explain the preposterous tech level in the computer game for such an insignificant place.
But yeah, if you want to avoid it I think it is a good idea as well.
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Dont forget most of the Successor States and Periphery Powers didnt recognise the Aurigan Coalition as a actual state with only the Magistry doing so to a minor degree. Not even Comstar would put a nation on a map that no one really recognizes.
The funny thing is if House Espinosa had won there entire idea was to build up there power base to a level where recognition might have been on the table.
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i agree that the coalition was not in a position to substantially engage in warfare with a larger power. and under normal circumstances i suspect they wouldn't get involved. but remember that the magistracy bankrolled the restoration (including physical assets in the form of getting the Argo operational) and gave Kamea sanctuary after the Directorate took over. this means that the Magistracy has a lot of markers they can call in politically from Kamea.. not to mention the fact that the magistracy has likely been bankrolling the reconstruction after the war, through trade if not direct funding. a threat to cut those ties would be a very powerful lever to get the Coalition to side with the magistracy on the issue. and it is possible that the Coalition wouldn't be involved directly, instead perhaps being used as a staging ground for magistracy controlled forces to strike at the CapCon, presumably to tie up troops that would otherwise be used to reinforce the Andurien border. given the location of Larsha, the raiders would pretty much have to be passing through Coalition controlled systems, which makes it unlikely they were independent pirates.
and whether the raiders were Coalition aligned or not, the inevitable Counter-raids would certainly have fallen on Coalition worlds, since the CapCon would certainly assume the Coalition was, if not the culprits, harboring them.
Yeah, it is quite probable that the MC is financing the Coalition in some level, probably not much, but enough to keep the ties open. But even then it seems by what the book says that Kamea is aiming for less ties, more self-reliance. That's why they keep doing those covert ops on the neighbor states. Also keep in mind that the book is narrated from the point of view of the intelligence head of the MC, and seems to assume that even them don't have much info on the inner goings of the Aurigan Coalition.
What you say about the MC pulling the Coalition into the war effort, even in a tangential way, is reasonable, but I think that if ever put into that situation, Kamea would choose to break ties before putting her nation in another war. But I understand your point of view, and if ever do the campaign I would have it in my as a possible extra plot :)
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I suggested the SLDF tie in because it seem a trope of the HBS game. I do not like that solution myself, but it is a very common feature in the game. Having it would explain the preposterous tech level in the computer game for such an insignificant place.
But yeah, if you want to avoid it I think it is a good idea as well.
Yeah, absolutely, I got your meaning. But I prefer to keep the game into a basic level of tech (plus the tech level of the game is obviously overinflated), as all the possible players are people who know nothing about Battletech universe, and have only played a couple of times the tabletop game. I want to keep it simple.
But please keep the flow of ideas, I really like to hear what more experienced players and fans have to say. I am a simple recruit, after all ;)
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@ Elmoth
One could say the same with Niops... where did SLDF tech come from if they were never there in the first place?
TT
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@ Elmoth
One could say the same with Niops... where did SLDF tech come from if they were never there in the first place?
TT
Except the SLDF was there. Even if they weren't stationed there, there was a local militia on planet, which would probably have looked no different from most Terran Hegemony Militia units, given they were a Terran Hegemony "Star League" colony.
Because they were expected to be there for a while as they studied stellar formation and death, they were given a technological and industrial base to allow small-scale manufacturing of SLDF Regular level equipment. For some reason, Nighthawk suits were also thrown into the mix, but it's also possible that their nature as a long-term research colony meant they were intended to have a data cache similar to the Helm or New Dallas ones.
That's all of what made Niops notable to the Inner Sphere in the first place: they're a tiny Periphery colony that hadn't fallen completely apart and managed to maintain some degree of technology in the Succession Wars. Their small scale and rate of production was why the FWL didn't bother just gobbling them up: their methods couldn't be upscaled enough. It's also possible that Niops was never as advanced as we thought during the Succession Wars or, alternatively, produced the dumbed-down Intro-tech Star League variants during this era, too.
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Not Niops, Aurigan Gio.
I know why Niops had them, but why did Aurigan Coalition get SLDF tech?
If SLDF wasn't there in the first place, DOME didn't do anything to this planet.
TT
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Not Niops, Aurigan Gio.
I know why Niops had them, but why did Aurigan Coalition get SLDF tech?
If SLDF wasn't there in the first place, DOME didn't do anything to this planet.
TT
Yeah, misread what you were saying.
But...what if it wasn't the SLDF that was the source of most of that gear? What if it was the Rim Worlds Republic, after having looted the Terran Hegemony, who lost or abandoned it while fleeing to a bolt hole?
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Or Aurigan is the bolt hole?
This needs some light... to the HBS game! And Handbook...
TT
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we know there was an outpost version brian castle (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_Castle_Nautilus) in the area. it seems likely that there would be other facilities around. probably a small naval base somewhere nearby.
but i suspect that the outpost castle was the big find for the region, and any others would be small bases and/or supply caches.
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In fact the map that you uncover during the campaign is of SLDF installations all over the Periphery, and only Outpost Castle Nautilus is on the Aurigan territory. So probably there were no more installations in any other part of the Coalition.
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In fact the map that you uncover during the campaign is of SLDF installations all over the Periphery, and only Outpost Castle Nautilus is on the Aurigan territory. So probably there were no more installations in any other part of the Coalition.
Is there an online version of the map out of curiosity?
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we know there was an outpost version brian castle (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outpost_Castle_Nautilus) in the area. it seems likely that there would be other facilities around. probably a small naval base somewhere nearby.
Huh?
We certainly had other Star League artifacts explicitly mentioned in the book. Panzyr is described as being a stopping off point for the SLDF and the system got blown away during the Succesion wars. The system is littered with debris and wrecked ships- to the point its a navigation hazard! They talk about scavengers trying to clear debris and cash in on SL tech that is found. ComStar was also supposed to have a presence on world, for the HPG but acknowledge in the book to keep a eye on the tech scavengers. The implication was IMO they were tracking and even competing with the prospectors. Smithon was fortified and had armories built by the SLDF's Corp of Engineers though the teeth were pulled when the Capellans abandoned the world. During the game, it seemed to be the technical knowledge center of the Coalition (confirmed in HB Arano) due to the ruling House's efforts- their motto is 'There is No Greater Wealth Than Knowledge.' It is also the House that gets conveniently pruned during the Restoration with the House ruler dying in the fighting (though not as a fighter), the son was killed or incapacitated, the information trove seems to have been lost, and the House basically has a regent. Even the ancestral dwelling, a fortress, was wrecked by an artillery barrage from the fighting . . . a rather convenient way to get rid of any hidden research or databases. When I read that entry I thought it basically screamed Holy Shroud. You also have Katinka, which had a SLDF facility that made it a prime target during the Periphery Uprising . . . which left it with a huge crater and disrupted weather patterns from a ortillery mass driver hit. They get LosTech prospectors too. The SL set up a large (read expensive) HPG facility on Aea- and ComStar maintains it to this day- and basically the HPG base is all that keeps that planet populated.
Hellespont has a trade route through Artru, a mining planet, that is HQ for the Explorer Corps.
And from there it makes a LOT of sense for ComStar to try to hide the Aurigan's existence . . . Hanse Davion already threw a huge chunk of resources at recovering databases, had a copy of the Helm data core, and was building up the NAIS. IF he ever learned of how much could be on that planet- a place where he would not have to fight a peer power like the Dracs- what would stop him from landing on Decimis to systematically sift the system.
And before someone remarks there are too many Star League era locations . . . consider this . . .
The state of Texas is quite large but has . . . currently . . . three Army bases, two AF bases, and I think a Naval Air Station? Which does not include Guard or Reserve sites.
Now go back and see how many installations they had in WWII, that are abandoned or were turned over to the state, or just shut down. I stayed in a old WWII facility that was temporarily opened as a bivouac site for my convoy driving back from New Orleans after Katrina, and there are a LOT of those around too. It was basically some barracks and warehouses IIRC sitting off what had been a big state highway before the Interstate Highway System. BTW most of those old Army Air Force training strips? They became municipal airports . . . sort of like these marginal worlds having SLDF built spaceports that the remaining population & economic activity cannot justify or maintain. Quick search says there were 65 Army Airfields in WWII most of which would be included in the 142 'major' military installations.
Considering the area being the Capellan border or just past it into the periphery between two of the major belligerents . . . it makes quite a bit of sense the Star League would have built up infrastructure to such a density as described in game & sourcebook. Remember, not every Star League built installation was a Castle Brian . . . in fact, since most would have dated to the Reunification War it was before they started formally building such complicated fortifications. And afterwards, it is still a good place to stage response forces for either the TC or MoC without them being compromised by being in those nations.
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But to go back to the OP . . .
House Book Arano is not really a retcon- nothing in the book really counters what was established. It does use carefully crafted openings in canon to establish the existance of a very minor faction which operates below the radar most of the rest of the universe. As someone said, the Aurigan region is referenced obliquely in the RecGuide.
Honestly, its like begging the question of 'Why was Monaco not mentioned in the histories of WWII?' Since the nation was never mentioned in those histories that the country did not exist during WWII. I am sure their local history will tell you what happened in that country in WWII, but nothing happened there of world-spanning relevance which is why the country is never mentioned despite being 'local' to one of the primary theaters.
The game's campaign itself is the absolute expression of the BTU's RPG campaign trope- mercs (check), LosTech (check), exploration (check), determine fate of nation (check), lead a rebellion (check), and expand forces (check).
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Huh?
We certainly had other Star League artifacts explicitly mentioned in the book. Panzyr is described as being a stopping off point for the SLDF and the system got blown away during the Succesion wars. The system is littered with debris and wrecked ships- to the point its a navigation hazard! They talk about scavengers trying to clear debris and cash in on SL tech that is found. ComStar was also supposed to have a presence on world, for the HPG but acknowledge in the book to keep a eye on the tech scavengers. The implication was IMO they were tracking and even competing with the prospectors. Smithon was fortified and had armories built by the SLDF's Corp of Engineers though the teeth were pulled when the Capellans abandoned the world. During the game, it seemed to be the technical knowledge center of the Coalition (confirmed in HB Arano) due to the ruling House's efforts- their motto is 'There is No Greater Wealth Than Knowledge.' It is also the House that gets conveniently pruned during the Restoration with the House ruler dying in the fighting (though not as a fighter), the son was killed or incapacitated, the information trove seems to have been lost, and the House basically has a regent. Even the ancestral dwelling, a fortress, was wrecked by an artillery barrage from the fighting . . . a rather convenient way to get rid of any hidden research or databases. When I read that entry I thought it basically screamed Holy Shroud. You also have Katinka, which had a SLDF facility that made it a prime target during the Periphery Uprising . . . which left it with a huge crater and disrupted weather patterns from a ortillery mass driver hit. They get LosTech prospectors too. The SL set up a large (read expensive) HPG facility on Aea- and ComStar maintains it to this day- and basically the HPG base is all that keeps that planet populated.
Hellespont has a trade route through Artru, a mining planet, that is HQ for the Explorer Corps.
And from there it makes a LOT of sense for ComStar to try to hide the Aurigan's existence . . . Hanse Davion already threw a huge chunk of resources at recovering databases, had a copy of the Helm data core, and was building up the NAIS. IF he ever learned of how much could be on that planet- a place where he would not have to fight a peer power like the Dracs- what would stop him from landing on Decimis to systematically sift the system.
And before someone remarks there are too many Star League era locations . . . consider this . . .
The state of Texas is quite large but has . . . currently . . . three Army bases, two AF bases, and I think a Naval Air Station? Which does not include Guard or Reserve sites.
Now go back and see how many installations they had in WWII, that are abandoned or were turned over to the state, or just shut down. I stayed in a old WWII facility that was temporarily opened as a bivouac site for my convoy driving back from New Orleans after Katrina, and there are a LOT of those around too. It was basically some barracks and warehouses IIRC sitting off what had been a big state highway before the Interstate Highway System. BTW most of those old Army Air Force training strips? They became municipal airports . . . sort of like these marginal worlds having SLDF built spaceports that the remaining population & economic activity cannot justify or maintain. Quick search says there were 65 Army Airfields in WWII most of which would be included in the 142 'major' military installations.
Considering the area being the Capellan border or just past it into the periphery between two of the major belligerents . . . it makes quite a bit of sense the Star League would have built up infrastructure to such a density as described in game & sourcebook. Remember, not every Star League built installation was a Castle Brian . . . in fact, since most would have dated to the Reunification War it was before they started formally building such complicated fortifications. And afterwards, it is still a good place to stage response forces for either the TC or MoC without them being compromised by being in those nations.
I totally forgot about Panzyr's debris field. Then I would limit the SLDF thing to those two ocurrences, and nothing more, from a campaign point of view. From a background point of view, yeah, you essentially can kick a rock and find an SLDF instalation anywhere in the Battletech universe. That's why I prefer to limit it to make it an extraordinary event.
Thanks for the Panzyr note :thumbsup:
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Also remember, games overemphasize things alot, especially when you tell a story to keep things moving and to help justify advances in tech. The "Qe found and ancient Brian cache on X planet and made off with massive lootz!!!" In game could have been just a underground storage bunker with maybe a barely salvageable and functional mech and maybe a few spare parts in the actual event. Not unlike how the cartoon was a fictionalized retelling of a tour of duty for a future Archon.
People still keep thinking events and things that show up in games are automatically canon, when they aren't. And usually when they do, they are not nearly as dramatic or surprising.
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But to go back to the OP . . .
House Book Arano is not really a retcon- nothing in the book really counters what was established. It does use carefully crafted openings in canon to establish the existance of a very minor faction which operates below the radar most of the rest of the universe. As someone said, the Aurigan region is referenced obliquely in the RecGuide.
Honestly, its like begging the question of 'Why was Monaco not mentioned in the histories of WWII?' Since the nation was never mentioned in those histories that the country did not exist during WWII. I am sure their local history will tell you what happened in that country in WWII, but nothing happened there of world-spanning relevance which is why the country is never mentioned despite being 'local' to one of the primary theaters.
The game's campaign itself is the absolute expression of the BTU's RPG campaign trope- mercs (check), LosTech (check), exploration (check), determine fate of nation (check), lead a rebellion (check), and expand forces (check).
The main problem is that the zone where the Coalition is is close to the two more powerful periphery states, plus two (or three) Inner Sphere states, and never appeared in any map or mentioned in any report. And even if ComStar wanted to keep the location clear from their starmaps, people from the Taurian Concordat and the Magistracy of Canopus know of it existence, plus people from other planets like Herotitus, etc... yet no one mentions even on passing a periphery state that is bigger than the Marian Hegemony (in number of planets). That's the issue, that the AC is big for a periphery state, and too big in my opinion to be overlooked by everyone. It's for these reason that I consider it a retcon. If the Coalition was situated for example in "empty" space, for example between Mica and the Tortuga Dominions, or between Farstar and Rezak's Hole, yeah, would be more logical, but obviously would make for a least interesting place for a videogame.
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Well, there is a difference between a Star League built spaceport (like the one on Panzyr that is decaying) and a SLDF com system in a wrecked Overlord floating at a La Grange point.
So on most Coalition planets, abandoned Star League infrastructure? Check . . . but actual chances of finding LosTech? Yeah those 3 (Panzyr, Smithon, Katinka) worlds, I think they even have a scenario track where you are trying to discourage some Lyrans searching caves on Smithon.
The main problem is that the zone where the Coalition is is close to the two more powerful periphery states, plus two (or three) Inner Sphere states, and never appeared in any map or mentioned in any report. And even if ComStar wanted to keep the location clear from their starmaps, people from the Taurian Concordat and the Magistracy of Canopus know of it existence, plus people from other planets like Herotitus, etc... yet no one mentions even on passing a periphery state that is bigger than the Marian Hegemony (in number of planets). That's the issue, that the AC is big for a periphery state, and too big in my opinion to be overlooked by everyone. It's for these reason that I consider it a retcon. If the Coalition was situated for example in "empty" space, for example between Mica and the Tortuga Dominions, or between Farstar and Rezak's Hole, yeah, would be more logical, but obviously would make for a least interesting place for a videogame.
But none of the maps we are given are MoC or Taurian origin maps. The maps you get in most sourcebooks are put out by ComStar or the follow up narrative sources.
You are still asking why Monaco was not metioned in WWII general histories with the expectation it should be recorded. The Coalition has 9 core systems and claims 13 more . . . but those claims are pretty thin. One of them claimed has a population b/c ComStar maintains a SL-era HPG compound while another is a long term mining terran mining project with orbital housing. All 13 of those claimed worlds are marginal. MoC is the only nation that recognizes they exist as a country . . . it is not like they are going to recognize the Aurigan's claim to those worlds if they do not recognize the country.
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Most planets in the game do not appear in any star map. I assume they are too small to appear. Same for the Marians and others. Only significant planets appear. I assume that the Marians are controlling over a hundred systems if you count them all including those planets that are a backwater's backwater, like the Aurigans do in the computer game.
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You are still asking why Monaco was not metioned in WWII general histories with the expectation it should be recorded. The Coalition has 9 core systems and claims 13 more . . . but those claims are pretty thin. One of them claimed has a population b/c ComStar maintains a SL-era HPG compound while another is a long term mining terran mining project with orbital housing. All 13 of those claimed worlds are marginal. MoC is the only nation that recognizes they exist as a country . . . it is not like they are going to recognize the Aurigan's claim to those worlds if they do not recognize the country.
Not the same thing. Not every report we get on the 3025 era is from ComStar. There is still people, mercenaries, traders, moving by the region, yet no single mention of the Coalition in any of the other States. Even Herotitus is known in the Inner Sphere, at least by some. The Coalition has about two dozen inhabited worlds. It's not Monaco, in size or importance (Monaco didn't got any notoriety until well after WW2). It's a more organized and stable (at least until the civil war) than for example the Oberon Confederation. Of course ComStar can keep quiet about the existence of the Coalition, but all it's neighbours know about it.
That makes it a retcon. A minor one, that's for sure, and with the more than sure fall of the Coalition, well before the arrival of the Clans, its existence is a footnote at most.
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It all depends on the source. The Aurigan founders see themselves as powerful merchantile families. I assume that most FS, Taurian and Capellan businessmen would consider them minor business clients/providers.
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All of the 3025 sourcebooks are written with ComStar or later the Wolf's Dragoons as the narrative voice afaik. The sources I am not sure of- House manuals- would at best be written by that House, which again focuses towards Terra.
Ah yes, forgot one other book I do not have, but I think the name points to the source. The 4SW Atlas which was written by the NAIS IIRC.
Herotitus is know b/c its a mercenary hub, which does make it matter to the IS. The Coalition does not produce JS, DS, or Battlemechs . . . it makes some vehicles though it seems they are a net importer anyway. They did not invade other nations, they were never really invaded (remember, the rogue TC commander went after the mercenaries), and during their history nothing of galaxy shaking ramifications happened. They had no impact, therefore they were irrelevant- even if HB Arano puffs them up to BE important for senior MoC officials to read.
It falls under countless nations rise and fall in generations out in the periphery clause summing up the other spaces. Those 13 claimed systems should not really be counted for their size . . . it is like claiming navigational waypoints.
As to what happened . . . there is every chance they balkanized. The civil war cut the bonds of mutual benefit that brought them together as a mercantile-concern-turned-government. One House was a traitor and likely absorbed into House Arano as the 'temporary' measure became more permananet . . . then she had her lackey in Emir Madeira . . . and Lord pro tem Petrauskas for House Karosas which seems to be a puppet to Arano & Medeira. Which since the election for planetary Council members has not happened as of the report's publication gives Arano/Medeira control on the council since only 5 of the remaining 6 Houses are seated. Phrasing was a bit awkward, but the Lord pro tem has the House's seat but is not viewed as the 'familys' status. Anyway, how long can it be stomached to always get voted down by at least the same 3 Councilors?
It would be a interesting twist if AC forces & mercs were involved in the Andurien war and the Historical referred to them as MoC 'mercs' rather than a MOC allied nation.
Based on the formation of the Trinity Alliance, while the IS might have started to revitalize after the Helm Core knowledge spread it did not seem to reach the periphery until Sun-Tzu reached out to TC & MoC. Also keep in mind when that when that alliance was forming, the novel Double Blind, the TC & MoC had established some peace & mutual support treaties to the point the TC offered to help garrison some MoC border worlds so they could put more troops towards the Marian (supposed) threat. Centrella passed on that b/c she saw the danger of the TC absorbing that whole region.
It is quite possible there is a Aurigan Coalition in 3050 . . . Kamea leading it is less likely IMO (her 50s?) . . . and that it comprises the same 9 systems and 13 other claimed? A stretch I think though you could still have House Arano, Medeira, Petrauskas with half the main systems (gives them 5 settled worlds- b/c its 9 system & 11 settled worlds) and some of the others 'inside' those 4 systems claimed. I think they have to hold on to Mechdur to have any sort of future though they will be eclipsed by the Fronc Reaches.
On the flip side . . . I could also see the Coalition collapse, Alexander Medeira fleeing the ruins . . . and go on to be a advisor to someone who put the Fronc Reaches together, an exile that speaks to his actor like a modern Maciavelli.
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Hmm...
How would you state them if they lasted past 3039? As in SW4, 3050-60, Jihad and later Dark Ages?
Would their RAT change?
TT
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It is quite possible there is a Aurigan Coalition in 3050 . . . Kamea leading it is less likely IMO (her 50s?) . . . and that it comprises the same 9 systems and 13 other claimed? A stretch I think though you could still have House Arano, Medeira, Petrauskas with half the main systems (gives them 5 settled worlds- b/c its 9 system & 11 settled worlds) and some of the others 'inside' those 4 systems claimed. I think they have to hold on to Mechdur to have any sort of future though they will be eclipsed by the Fronc Reaches.
On the flip side . . . I could also see the Coalition collapse, Alexander Medeira fleeing the ruins . . . and go on to be a advisor to someone who put the Fronc Reaches together, an exile that speaks to his actor like a modern Maciavelli.
I agree that the House Arano book isn't really retcon, and that either of the above scenarios could occur between 3026 and the late 3050s and still be consistent with all of the current lore.
I think the issue is that it feels like there is a need for some TBD retcon for the late 3050s forward, mostly because of the population and industrial strength of some of the worlds in the Arano sourcebook.
--If the Coalition still exists in 3057, then question is how do they fit in with the Trinity Alliance powers and the Fronc Reaches?
--If the Coalition crumbles by then, then the question is who gobbled up its most lucrative worlds? It's possible they stayed independent and uninteresting (both strategically and storywise) through the 3050s, but it is hard to see how the other powers in the region would just let them live and let be as they became more expansionist and technologically advanced in the 3050s and 3060s.
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The industry maybe huge for them . . . but the important thing is the tech level. It is like comparing the industrial output of a country in the . . . say 1920 when Henry started making the Model T and 2020 industry. Sure the factories in the 1920 can churn out a lot of products . . . but they are lower tech, use up more resources (materials, labor & energy), and do not have as many applications today. Do you want a 1920s tin to store the cookies in, or ziplocks?
Think of the complex empire building games, where you perform research to improve your industrial potential- Total War Empire comes to mind, things like the mines, refineries, and textile factories get improved with steam power and social changes (like stock companies). Or farmland . . . 120 acres in Iowa produces a different amount of produce than 120 acres in the middle of Montana (w/o deep well irrigation).
Mechdur may have a lot of industry but be inefficient for anyone else's use so far from home. Look at the problems joint ownership of Detroit caused.
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As to what happened . . . there is every chance they balkanized. The civil war cut the bonds of mutual benefit that brought them together as a mercantile-concern-turned-government. One House was a traitor and likely absorbed into House Arano as the 'temporary' measure became more permananet . . . then she had her lackey in Emir Madeira . . . and Lord pro tem Petrauskas for House Karosas which seems to be a puppet to Arano & Medeira. Which since the election for planetary Council members has not happened as of the report's publication gives Arano/Medeira control on the council since only 5 of the remaining 6 Houses are seated. Phrasing was a bit awkward, but the Lord pro tem has the House's seat but is not viewed as the 'family' status. Anyway, how long can it be stomached to always get voted down by at least the same 3 Councilors?
This would fit with the monologue at the start of the game, which is set sometime after the end of the restoration. "a true hero would have fought more, and compromised less"
that the restoration basically leave the coalition in much the same political state as they were under the Directorate, just with different names on the decrees, would certainly have led to some issues with the lesser houses in the coalition. especially if the rest of the House Medeira and House Karosas membership don't entirely agree with their leadership about the suitability of the post-restoration structure. after all, their little civil war would have split families within the houses, and just because the Arano's were the winners in the civil war does not mean that every supporter of the directorate immediately changed sides back. especially since it sounds like there was no great purge in the houses of the coalition, just prosecution of the directorate's upepr leadership and those who were directly involved in the directorate's atrocities.
It would be a interesting twist if AC forces & mercs were involved in the Andurien war and the Historical referred to them as MoC 'mercs' rather than a MOC allied nation.
Rampart company from the housebook would be a great fit for that. since they are "officially" not Coalition troops, but independant mercs.
It is quite possible there is a Aurigan Coalition in 3050 . . . Kamea leading it is less likely IMO (her 50s?) . . . and that it comprises the same 9 systems and 13 other claimed? A stretch I think though you could still have House Arano, Medeira, Petrauskas with half the main systems (gives them 5 settled worlds- b/c its 9 system & 11 settled worlds) and some of the others 'inside' those 4 systems claimed. I think they have to hold on to Mechdur to have any sort of future though they will be eclipsed by the Fronc Reaches.
it is worth nothing too that, as i illustrated earlier in the thread, the TC did obtain several Coalition worlds by 3040. (Aea, Regis Roost, and based on the location of the border, probably Katinka, Artru, and Qalzi)
if the Coalition balkanized, the TC might have absorbed those peacefully over the course of the 3030's.. the minor houses* controlling those worlds might well have invited the TC in beleiving the larger state would provide more secure protection than the Arano's can.
*none of the worlds which changed hands are home to a ruling council house, so i would assume that they would be controlled by even smaller houses or by planetary governments aligned with the Coalition.
On the flip side . . . I could also see the Coalition collapse, Alexander Medeira fleeing the ruins . . . and go on to be a advisor to someone who put the Fronc Reaches together, an exile that speaks to his actor like a modern Maciavelli.
i would be inclined to assume that *something* survives.. mainly because all the surrounding states seem to avoid that area for the next century. if the coalition fell apart completely, the region would become lawless and open for the taking by anyone. and you'd expect the New colony Region/Fronc Reaches to absorb it, if not the capcon or the TC. instead they ignore most of the area, even as they expand around it. suggesting that some sort of coherent polity survives there, or at least enough of one that taking it over would be more hassle than it is worth.
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i would be inclined to assume that *something* survives.. mainly because all the surrounding states seem to avoid that area for the next century. if the coalition fell apart completely, the region would become lawless and open for the taking by anyone. and you'd expect the New colony Region/Fronc Reaches to absorb it, if not the capcon or the TC. instead they ignore most of the area, even as they expand around it. suggesting that some sort of coherent polity survives there, or at least enough of one that taking it over would be more hassle than it is worth.
I would say that most of the worlds fall into obscurity, of simply fail as viable and are abandoned or simply perish. That would be a reason for the TC not to absorb every planet in the Coalition. They absorb some of the closer ones to their frontier (as per the canon maps). Maybe even some of them are lost from the star charts.
The result is a region that is essentially not worthy the effort of expansion or colonisation. I was even considering if perhaps use in the campaign the issue of the chemical weapons used on the Perdition attack. Perhaps some surviving faction of the Directorate use them on the capital world, like a terrorist attack, and they lose control over the attack, polluting the world, killing everyone. Although that seems too much for these era of play. Any thoughts?
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I would say that most of the worlds fall into obscurity, of simply fail as viable and are abandoned or simply perish. That would be a reason for the TC not to absorb every planet in the Coalition. They absorb some of the closer ones to their frontier (as per the canon maps). Maybe even some of them are lost from the star charts.
The result is a region that is essentially not worthy the effort of expansion or colonisation. I was even considering if perhaps use in the campaign the issue of the chemical weapons used on the Perdition attack. Perhaps some surviving faction of the Directorate use them on the capital world, like a terrorist attack, and they lose control over the attack, polluting the world, killing everyone. Although that seems too much for these era of play. Any thoughts?
How about a local bug that adapts to start eating the primary monocrop of the local population (the food crops are almost identical clones, so once the bug overcame the resistance of one plant, it could spread quickly). It spreads slow enough that people can recognize what it is doing, but there isn't the tech to stop it. So people have to switch to worse food crops, or leave the planet. Local population eventually steadies down to 1/10 its original value and the overall tech base falls as well. From there nobody really wants to come by as there is nothing worth coming by for.
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How about a local bug that adapts to start eating the primary monocrop of the local population (the food crops are almost identical clones, so once the bug overcame the resistance of one plant, it could spread quickly). It spreads slow enough that people can recognize what it is doing, but there isn't the tech to stop it. So people have to switch to worse food crops, or leave the planet. Local population eventually steadies down to 1/10 its original value and the overall tech base falls as well. From there nobody really wants to come by as there is nothing worth coming by for.
Could be a reasonable cause for some world fading out, but for the matter of the campaign I would choose something more dramatic and direct. But definitely I see it happening in some world, as sure has happened in many worlds that disappeared from Inner Sphere history.
The other think from a setting point of view is as glitterboy2098 (I see a rifts fan, perhaps) said that some of the main characters of the book will probably survive the fall of the Coalition. Who is your best bet? I personally can see some of the noble houses leaders surviving to keep ruling their worlds as independent entities. Kamea and Madeira I picture dying in the fall, as most of the members of Rampart company.
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it is worth nothing too that, as i illustrated earlier in the thread, the TC did obtain several Coalition worlds by 3040. (Aea, Regis Roost, and based on the location of the border, probably Katinka, Artru, and Qalzi)
Point of order, Regis Roost is not and never was an Aurigan system in canon. It's been clearly ruled that inclusion of this system in the HBS game was an oversight and that it should not have been mentioned in the House Arano sourcebook either. That is official errata for the sourcebook.
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Tolkien
OR maybe Iron Heart Industries?
:))
I jest of, he's totally a Rifts fan.
( Had too, yah know? )
TT
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Hmm...
How would you state them if they lasted past 3039? As in SW4, 3050-60, Jihad and later Dark Ages?
Would their RAT change?
TT
If the state continued i think it would end up becoming part of the Trinity Alliance and instead of a New Colony Region the Aurigan Coalition becomes that buffer/link state between the 3
If it didn't then it becomes a target for all 3 and burns horribly
Only the Federated Suns or St Ives could push to support it with sufficient firepower to prop it up to be a thorn in the others side, but there's little reason to support a far flung state like that in those times
As far as RATs its going to heavily influenced by its neighbours
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The Coalition may have survived, losing some worlds due to a lack of troops or a consideration by Kamea to pull in her boundaries for a better defense against the Concordat. Given how much the Concordat lost during the Jihad and the future, along with the formation of the Calderon Protectorate and the Fronc Reaches, the Coalition may have traded resources with the MoC, the Taurians and the Capellans to help solidify more economic stability in the wake of their civil war. Eventually the Coalition stabilizes, and manages to join in the New Colony region, and as the MoC and the TC are drawn into IS affairs, forges new links with the Fronc Reaches and the Protectorate to take back planets from the TC as it resides, sparking conflict between the two powers once again during the end of the Jihad and into the Dark Ages.
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There is also the little matter of the Argo's copy of the SDS drone control program and the lostech recovered by the Maruaders, especially with that last Flashpoint mission...
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Something else is that Comstar and WoB tend not to put worlds on a map if there populations drop below a certain level.
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By the time the fronc reaches starts to play a role the Aurigans are defunct as a regional power. Otherwise they would need to feature in the fronc reaches storyline. And they do not.
I like that. It is an example of a failed state. They are talked about all the time. But we have very few examples of actual failed states in canon.
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House Cameron?
TT
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A government that falls to a coup is not a failed state- but we do not see them that often either.
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Periphery states are supposed to be around 50 in number and come and go all the time. The aurigans, a state that does not last 3 generations, seems a good example of that.
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Is it comfirmed that Aurigan Coalition did not last longer? I hate to see the same fate of protagonists of the video games again. They always makes their protagonists' fate miserable.
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It has not been revealed . . . only ones I know that get protagonists in canon are MW4's Ian Dresari where they chose the 'bad' choice, and a few hints at MCG/MC2 pilots being canon. MW3's Damocles team got mentioned but I am not sure we really hear of them again.
Also, we do not know what happened to the mercs- the SB is about Kamea Arano & her minion the Emir.
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Well, then we shal see. It seems what we can do is nothing but guess. Although, it is quite possible that it didn't last longer.
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Note that a "failed state" just means one where the political and/or economic system is so weak the government can't maintain control within its borders.
The Aurigans could be a failed state without ever ceasing to exist as a government. which would help explain that gap in the borders. The coalition exists, making Peaceful absorption of the region difficult politically, but the coalition can't fully ride herd on its own people, resulting in it being full of corruption, organized crime, and non state actors like smugglers, bandits, terrorists, etc. A situation which would make conquest even more difficult since conquest and absorption would require you to clean up the region.
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And being a 'political fiction' could also explain why they are not recognized or placed on maps. Didn't someone buy one of those island fortresses in the N Sea and declare it a new country? No one takes that seriously afaik, and this would be the same deal.
If you look at what happened with the Royal forces- especially if any jump in with the MoC as auxillaries- then the AC is going to have problems exerting control. And if you do not have control, how can you collect taxes? If you lack tax income, how can you pay for more troops or train them? If you do not have enough troops, how can you exert control?
See?
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Honestly I like that as a storyline.. The Arano government struggling against the inertia of the damage the Civil war did to an already fragile state. Losing control of outlying areas (both in terms of being unable to enforce laws, and in terms of the TC absorbing half a dozen worlds on the antispinward(?) border), insurgencies and factionalism breaking out all over, always on the brink of the whole thing Balkanizing. Coalition armed forces rushing around to put out fires as new ones ignite
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From the Sourcebook there hunting down units that took there mechs with them after the Civil War. It's entirely believable that Rampart Company went after one unit and lost taking one of the better units the Aurigan Coalition had. For many in the Coalition that unit bring lost could have been a sign Arano was weak and another Coup attempted.
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I stand that they are not around anymore in the 3060 since the Fronc Reaches do not reference them at all. They can be retconned for sure, but so far the story of the Fronc ignoring them is important since they start smaller than the (supposed) Aurigans in their front door.
Yes, I am aware that the Fronc Reaches' entries are older than the new Aurigan book. But as the Arano book is more an internal joke related to an apocryphal video game than an actual product with continuity, I assume they are out 30 years after you play the campaign.
It plays well in the setting.
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Whether that's "out" as in non-existent, or merely down to one or two worlds and basically irrelevant is the question. They clearly aren't a significant factor in the region by then. There's no info on
a bunch of other local independent worlds in the Fronc Reaches writeup, so if the remains of an Auriga Coalition that only consist of one or two planets isn't specifically mentioned, that doesn't mean anything.
It's about as vague as you can possibly get, and I suspect that if it could have been made even more vague, they'd have done so.
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Found the bit someone said was in the RecGuide . . . #8, the Rifleman's SW notable pilots has Subaltern Thorgil Wolf who lost his RFL during the Restoration. Afterwards he is awarded a new mech and lance command in Second Company- Marcell's Marauders- where he was frequently tasked with protecting the weakened borders from pirates. Even the Marauders reference is IMO a link to the game, since they were something similar until you get leadership and can change the name.
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i have to ask.. for people who are claiming to be fans.. why do some of you seem to want Kamea killed and the Aurigans collapse entirely?
I stand that they are not around anymore in the 3060 since the Fronc Reaches do not reference them at all. They can be retconned for sure, but so far the story of the Fronc ignoring them is important since they start smaller than the (supposed) Aurigans in their front door.
Yes, I am aware that the Fronc Reaches' entries are older than the new Aurigan book. But as the Arano book is more an internal joke related to an apocryphal video game than an actual product with continuity, I assume they are out 30 years after you play the campaign.
that's like saying that Wolf Dragoons shouldn't be considered to have had any connection to the clans, because it was never mentioned prior to the warrior trilogy, which retconned in a connection where all the materials "do not reference them at all" in regards to such a connection.
yes it was added retroactively, but it was done such that it would not blatantly contradict anything that already existed. it is in a location no one claims for basically the entire history of battletech. they set the start of the polity to a century after a major conflict (the MOC-TC war) which would require the combatants to pass through the region, so that the existence of the polity doesn't disrupt the one bit of history for the region we had. and they set the polity up as a weak state that the wider IS can quite easily ignore, explaining why it wasn't on any of the (comstar made) maps.
arguing that the lack of info on a group from material dating to before said polity was invented for the game as prooving they ceased to exist is an example of a "false cause" fallacy, and a really illogical way of approaching history.
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i have to ask.. for people who are claiming to be fans.. why do some of you seem to want Kamea killed and the Aurigans collapse entirely?
That wording feels a bit confrontational, but I'll bite.
This is a war game, happy endings are inherently boring. Chaos is endless fun. The Aurigans aren't interesting to me unless they're doing something where people shoot at other people.
A failed state gives us more to do than a peaceful, stable one.
Also, saying the Aurigan Coalition didn't survive in a stable enough state to stay on the maps as a unified entity is the simplest way to reconcile it not being on the maps without more extensive retcons. We're talking about maps that recognize bandit kingdoms as coherent interstellar powers here.
The simplest solution is that most of the Aurigan worlds remain individually strong enough to resist incorporation into their neighbors but disunited enough to not qualify as a single state.
Not only is it a neat potential region for further stories with the Aurigan ties to bind it together (just imagine young idealists arising every so often dreaming of putting things back together), but it also sidesteps the "oh, hey, we thought the Lothian League was important enough to mention, but forgot all about the Aurigan Coalition these last twelve decades."
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I say their still there, just quietly existing.
TT
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except as i've pointed out.. what keeps being talked about here isn't a failed state. a failed state is where the Aurigan coalition continues on, retains its territory (mosty), but it becomes mostly toothless and subject to internal unrest. unrest which makes an ideal subject for battletech games, because we're basically talking bandits, pirates, local warlords building up private armies and fighting each other, governmental forces dropping on worlds to blow up local warlords and show the flag, etc.
what people keep bringing up.. Kamea being assassinated. "down to one or two worlds" "must have fallen" "disintegrates" "not a polity anymore"
these are not a failed state. these are a dead state. a state that is not alive. ceased to be. shuffled off the mortal coil. an ex-state.
coming from people who for all accounts appear to like the Aurigans as they appear in the 3020's, it is a very very odd juxtaposition.
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these are not a failed state. these are a dead state. a state that is not alive. ceased to be. shuffled off the mortal coil. an ex-state.
coming from people who for all accounts appear to like the Aurigans as they appear in the 3020's, it is a very very odd juxtaposition.
Dead state works just as well as failed.
Honestly, I'm getting a "no true fan" feel from your objection so I'm bowing out.
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Nah, I get his point . . . folks rooting for her to get killed rather than just not be capable enough to rule. She gets quite a bit of power after winning- 1 house is gone, she appointed a governor to another house who follows instructions of her primary follower, her follower the Emir- a prime minister in all but name, and her own vote.
Without the popular councilor vote, Kamea has a powerbloc that will be tough to crack . . . the way people are, if there is not some crack in it the 3 on the outside might decide to take their toys and go home.
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The thing is that you need to retcon the Aurigans into the setting if they do not fail or are dead as a state. The fronc reaches does not recognize them at all. And they are big (at least 9 systems in star charts). That is bigger than the fronc reaches themselves.
The Arano book was put together as a salute to the HBS game, bit does not seem to feature in any kind of future plans from TPTB. Having them disappear would be fitting to the setting and solve the problem of them not appearing in star maps when the Illyrian Palatinate, Lothians, Valyriate, Niops, Marians and others have appeared consistently through the several supplements. It would be another one of the supposedly plentiful failed states in the periphery, that emerge live and disappear again. Failed/dead periphery qstates that are sorely missing from canon despite their supposed commonality. An example of that is a welcome addition to the setting and has value on its own.
Kamea dying is just one option. I vote for the planets NOT in her voting block starting to see more charges than benefits in their relationship with the Arano power block, and slowly but surely slipping away from control. There will be conflict for sure, but in the end, the Aurigans cease to be a relevant polity and at emo more by the time the Fronc reaches are formed.
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Well, one other point is the threshold of reporting 'owned' planets. If you look at the additional 13 systems they claim some just barely have any sort of population . . . heck, if Panzyr was not the seat of House Decimius it might not be one of those 9 systems listed. The only reason Decimius has Panzyr is that it was part of a negotiated settlement to keep the world they shared with another House from plunging into war.
So we get the 9 core systems . . . of which 6 are part of that core because they were the seats of the 7 Houses. Which means that only two other systems in their sphere of influence were significant. Besides their internal political power those other 6 might not be deemed significant- the political power that outsiders who do not recognize the state will not care about either.
To anyone outside the Coalition, what are their significant worlds/systems? Coromodir (2 inhabited planets), Itrom (shipping center), Tyrlon (2 worlds, ag) Guldra (said to have megacities), and Mechdur (industrial center) . . . Guldra is interesting b/c the world's HPG was destroyed with ComStar & IS listing it as a destroyed world even with its high population. Tyrlon's House Paratas was the last to join the Trade Partnership.
Panzyr and Smithon are really minor worlds that are only of interest b/c they are the seats of Houses with Star League artifacts with both seeming to have declining populations. Heliat is described as a backwater among the AC, itself considered the 'sticks' and based on description seems a world that was strong-armed to join while being 'settled' by a second wave of folks from Guldra & Coromodir. Weldry is described as marginally habitable and is only notable as a navigational waypoint- IMO the only reason it is a 'major' system is b/c it was in the campaign of the game.
So really take that 9 systems down to 6 as 'core' if you leave off their internal political importance. IF the houses outside the block leave . . . it would mean the AC would be left with Coromodir, Guldra, and I would imagine Mechdur. Other worlds that would stay in their sphere of influence would IMO be Weldry (some Arano is governor) and Smithon (Arano appointed Governor for dead House) with perhaps some of the minor systems.
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The Lothian League, Mica Majority, Illyrian Palantinate, and Elysian Fields would all like to take issue with the notion of too minor to report. Your backwater world of Heliat has a larger population than the rest of those recognized and mapped states combined.
A unified Aurigan Coalition would not be too minor to put on the maps by any reasonable metric. At the very least, it would be comparable to nations like the Marian Hegemony or Circinus Federation. In terms of resources it would probably be on par with the Outworlds Alliance, despite having fewer planets and no indigenous battlemech production.
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plus there has to be *some* reason the capcon, magistracy, Fronc, and taurians haven't expanded into the area despite having a century and half to do so and taking in many worlds even worse off (or completely uninhabited!) around it. the region of the core dozen or so systems of the colaition (seen on the HBS map) basically goes completely untouched by anyone else between 2910 and 3150..
a Coalition that is stuck in governmental deadlock and the state running along on basically autopilot would help explain that.
especially since they were already bordering on being a failed state before the directorate's coup. since each major planet was run by one of the houses, it suggests that there wasn't much of a central government. the houses likely took care of that. between the dismantling of the directorate's efforts at a central government (in the process of dismantling the directorate), and the ruling council reduced in size and deadlocked by a dominating triumvirate of the Arano, Madeira, and Karosas houses, any real effort to reform the Coalition with a more central government would fail to get through the council, and the non-dominant houses would likely follow through with only the minimal support for the coalition wide state as they can get away with. forcing the the dominate houses to have to expend their own resources to help the worlds not under the direct sway of the ruling six houses.. and likely facing competition in that area as the non-dominate houses flex their muscles and sway those worlds to their side.. which would increase their economic and military power and possibly their stature in the ruling council.. possibly enough to lure one of the dominant three to switch sides or abstain on crucial votes that favor the non-dominant houses. meanwhile on the worlds without representation in the ruling council, institutions and control breaks down because there is no reliable source of centralized power, and the possible souces are busy playing political tug of war with said institutions.
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Honestly I think the worlds populations just dropped to a level that Comstar withdrew HPG services and jumpships just stopped going there. The little goverment that would have existed would quickly fail. The other option is by the 3060's and 3070's those worlds are WoB recruiting worlds as well as manufacturing planets and there non-existentance in the timeline is first a Comstar and later a WoB cover up.
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The Lothian League, Mica Majority, Illyrian Palantinate, and Elysian Fields would all like to take issue with the notion of too minor to report. Your backwater world of Heliat has a larger population than the rest of those recognized and mapped states combined.
A unified Aurigan Coalition would not be too minor to put on the maps by any reasonable metric. At the very least, it would be comparable to nations like the Marian Hegemony or Circinus Federation. In terms of resources it would probably be on par with the Outworlds Alliance, despite having fewer planets and no indigenous battlemech production.
And ComStar and the IS think Guldra is a dead world yet has a larger population. It is like relying on encyclopedias from 1970 for population numbers to write your report in 1990. All the earlier sources on the region were from ComStar- this is from Canopus who is their neighbor and actually cares about representing accurate numbers. My point was not about population but about worlds that matter enough to be reported on- so while the MoC report claims 9 major systems and 13 minor ones, the only reason some were considered 'major' was b/c of their local political importance. I said the only reason Weldry, Panzyr and Smithon were included as major was the game, by their description they are minor.
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The Lothian League, Mica Majority, Illyrian Palantinate, and Elysian Fields would all like to take issue with the notion of too minor to report. Your backwater world of Heliat has a larger population than the rest of those recognized and mapped states combined.
A unified Aurigan Coalition would not be too minor to put on the maps by any reasonable metric. At the very least, it would be comparable to nations like the Marian Hegemony or Circinus Federation. In terms of resources it would probably be on par with the Outworlds Alliance, despite having fewer planets and no indigenous battlemech production.
Sounds more like the Aurigan Coalition is the overpopulated slum area of the Periphery.
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And ComStar and the IS think Guldra is a dead world yet has a larger population.
There's no indication that the same applies to the entire coalition, particularly when three of their systems still have operating HPGs. And "lol comstar screwed up" is a tired meme that I hope we've finally moved past.
It is like relying on encyclopedias from 1970 for population numbers to write your report in 1990. All the earlier sources on the region were from ComStar- this is from Canopus who is their neighbor and actually cares about representing accurate numbers. My point was not about population but about worlds that matter enough to be reported on- so while the MoC report claims 9 major systems and 13 minor ones, the only reason some were considered 'major' was b/c of their local political importance. I said the only reason Weldry, Panzyr and Smithon were included as major was the game, by their description they are minor.
None of this answers the problem of a nation with populations in the millions and occasionally billions on the border of three other states somehow being less noteworthy than struggling microstates with populations in the thousands. It would literally be a state with billions of people under its banner on the border of three other states being less noteworthy than the Mica Majority.
The Mica Majority. Show of hands, be honest, when's the last time any of you even remembered the Mica Majority existed? It's the friggin Mica Majority. Did you know they can also be called Micanos? I didn't, because nobody cares about the Mica Majority. What do they even do there? Pop quiz, off the top of your head. Don't cheat by looking it up. What do Micans do?
(The answer, nothing useful, because they're Micans. Nobody cares.)
There's no reason a functioning Aurigan Coalition wouldn't be important enough to appear on the map. The least blatant retcon way to incorporate it without doing something like Brinton Plaguing it into extinction is to say that it's no longer a functioning, unified state.
Sounds more like the Aurigan Coalition is the overpopulated slum area of the Periphery.
It's like the outback, but in the periphery.
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and there could be many reasons for comstar to leave it off their maps.
perhaps comstar has little to no presence as a communication service in the region, and thus doesn't include the state on their maps, only the handful of worlds they service.
perhaps comstar has interests in that region and leaves it off the maps so other states don;t get too interested in the area.
or perhaps comstar just never recognized the Coalition as a legitimate state, and thus leaves the area blank on maps because they only include comstar recognized entities. wouldn't be the first time in history something like that has happened.
personally i'd be inclined to take that last view. especially since the Coalition is only barely a "nation" even before the coup attempt.. it was an alliance of semi-independent sovereign entities (the 7 houses) under what amounted to a high-kingship by the Arano's, who were effectively "first among equals" within the Ruling council of the houses. since the high kingship appears to have been largely ceremonial, the result would have been what amounted to 7+ separate polities with close economic ties and strong mutual defense pacts. polities which would have been basically non-continious, as two of them share the same system for their homeworlds (coromodir V and IV for House Espinosa and Arano) and all of the houses control in whole or in part other lesser worlds in the region based on economic ties rather than geographic ones. thus a worlds allegiance might be split and is unlikely to fully border other worlds held by the same house. (ironically the Directorate was an attempt to build a proper centralized state in the region.. it just was being perpetrated by people who did not have high morals to go with their lofty political goals)
in short, the coalition isn't really a "state" in the same sense that Comstar usually deals with, so it probably didn't recognize the formation of the Coalition.. and trying to depict the 7 some houses and their non-continious holdings would be a nightmare for map makers so they don't bother. since the area is a relative backwater with few worlds of interest to the wider IS and very few ties to any other states, leaving it off made the maps easier to make and didn't really effect the wider political situation of the inner sphere.
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There is one key difference between the Aurigan Coalition and all those other micro-states (even the Micans iirc, but they're in only one system so it's moot):
The Aurigans have no JumpShips of their own. They completely rely on the Gwendor-Dorwinion Cartel. Their corner of the universe is explicitly called "JumpShip starved".
Planetary populations aren't that relevant for an interstellar nation, but without JumpShips you can't have an interstellar nation. All the nice stuff on Mechdur is worth diddly squat on Coromodir without JumpShips.
(There's a reason the Coalition only came into its own when Gwendor-Dorwinion showed up. And maybe the war ravaged the Coalition so much that the cartel's JumpShips moved to greener pastures elsewhere.)
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that also help explain the lack of map appearance. with no comstar registered jumpships travelling around in that little cluster of stars, maybe comstar just literally has no stellar coordinates for the worlds there, and thus leaves it off the map.
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that also help explain the lack of map appearance. with no comstar registered jumpships travelling around in that little cluster of stars, maybe comstar just literally has no stellar coordinates for the worlds there, and thus leaves it off the map.
On the contrary. ComStar may be the most active user of JumpShips there, but apparently is unable to double as a JumpShip service (like they seem to do in the Inner Sphere, the "ComStar bus lines" theory) out here.
As Periphery goes, the Aurigan Reach has an unusually high concentration of HPGs, all still serviced by ComStar. There's one Explorer Corps HQ out there, too. One planet is considered inhabited solely because the Star League built a HPG there for some arcane reason which ComStar still mans. I believe there are even gaps in the net out here that would cut some HPGs off unless ComStar brings in mobile HPGs or courier JumpShips.
ComStar is definitely aware of the Coalition, but apparently don't consider them noteworthy, or maybe simply kept out of politics and didn't recognize them as a state for neutrality reasons. (Remember, most of the time ComStar actually is just what it says on the cover.)
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There is one key difference between the Aurigan Coalition and all those other micro-states (even the Micans iirc, but they're in only one system so it's moot):
The Aurigans have no JumpShips of their own. They completely rely on the Gwendor-Dorwinion Cartel. Their corner of the universe is explicitly called "JumpShip starved".
Planetary populations aren't that relevant for an interstellar nation, but without JumpShips you can't have an interstellar nation. All the nice stuff on Mechdur is worth diddly squat on Coromodir without JumpShips.
(There's a reason the Coalition only came into its own when Gwendor-Dorwinion showed up. And maybe the war ravaged the Coalition so much that the cartel's JumpShips moved to greener pastures elsewhere.)
Citation needed. Every corner of the universe is jumpship starved. The Aurigans were still able to conduct an interstellar conflict with themselves involving significant numbers of troops (for a periphery state). Show me in the lore how the Aurigans depending on the goodwill of privately owned jumpships is definitively different from every other small state that's on the map.
If those jumpships then left, and the Aurigan Coalition collapsed as a result, then... the Coalition collapsed. The state's dead, what's your point? It solves the problem of them not being on recent maps by destroying them as a state.
that also help explain the lack of map appearance. with no comstar registered jumpships travelling around in that little cluster of stars, maybe comstar just literally has no stellar coordinates for the worlds there, and thus leaves it off the map.
If that were true, (which it isn't because comstar is actively involved on Aurigan worlds running their HPGs) it still wouldn't solve the problem of other lesser states that Comstar also doesn't have any interest in appearing on the map. You think Comstar was going out of its way to monitor the life and times of the Illyrian Palatinate? Only bandit states like the Marians or Ciricinans care what the Illyrians are doing. And that's just so they can steal their stuff.
(yes, I do keep switching which minor state I use as an example, because there's more than one really good example)
On the contrary. ComStar may be the most active user of JumpShips there, but apparently is unable to double as a JumpShip service (like they seem to do in the Inner Sphere, the "ComStar bus lines" theory) out here.
As Periphery goes, the Aurigan Reach has an unusually high concentration of HPGs, all still serviced by ComStar. There's one Explorer Corps HQ out there, too. One planet is considered inhabited solely because the Star League built a HPG there for some arcane reason which ComStar still mans. I believe there are even gaps in the net out here that would cut some HPGs off unless ComStar brings in mobile HPGs or courier JumpShips.
ComStar is definitely aware of the Coalition, but apparently don't consider them noteworthy, or maybe simply kept out of politics and didn't recognize them as a state for neutrality reasons. (Remember, most of the time ComStar actually is just what it says on the cover.)
They didn't appear on the maps because they hadn't been retconned into the universe yet. The question isn't why they didn't; it's whether or not they will in the future (including the future of the past), and if they don't, why they don't.
The reason I'm pushing the fallen state idea isn't because of any grudge against the Aurigans, it's because I think it's the most likely solution for the writers to give us. It's simple, it's not an unreasonable result from a lore standpoint, it takes another extraneous piece off of a very cluttered board, and it doesn't require the positively herculean mental gymnastics we're seeing here with people trying to convince themselves that the Aurigans remained in a viable state but were still somehow so unimportant that they got beat out by the Elysian Fields when it came time to make maps.
But hey, the writers gave us forever faithful, so who knows, maybe they'll just jam it in there and call it good.
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They actually do have a recent appearance in 'future past' with RecGuide 8- Rifleman's notable pilots has a Restoration pilot who lost his RFL towards the end, given lance command, and hunts pirates using a lot of pluralistic language.
Nothing you presented is mutually exclusive-
Being a failed state
Smaller in 3050 than we saw in 3026ish set SB
Unimportant to the universe at large
Having better population records via MoC than ComStar provided for other periphery (or IS) worlds
Having more industry but at a lower tech level
ComStar/Word of Blake keeping them off maps for nefarious reasons- WoB was working at least '57 onward to get a Periphery alliance
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I prefer them to be off the maps for being too irrelevant as this leaves more room for other irrelevant states.
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I prefer them to be off the maps for being too irrelevant as this leaves more room for other irrelevant states.
Not gonna lie, I'd dig that. I don't think it's gonna happen, as I think the current crop of writers are trying to scale back the scope of the universe (or at least the focus of that universe) to something they can more easily manage.
But I'd dig it if they did.
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Yeah. We don't need to have every single exact location of such minor states on the world map, unless it is on the computer game - where every single locations are pre-made and you can go whatever you want. But what we want is not like this.
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I think Centrella backed the Aurigan Collation over the Directorate for a simple reason--a bloody civil war would ensure the Aurigan region would remain a toothless empire that serves as a nice border to hem in other powers. Prior to the 4th succession war even before the Helm memory core was passed around, the inner sphere was finally recovering--new mechs and new tech combined with a new form of stable warfare that didn't destroy infrastructure. A united expansionist Aurigan Directorate with a strong alliance with the Taurians would have pushed the major recovering inner sphere powers to have to re-examine their periphery borders--something Centrella would not have wanted. Instead, Centrella paid some money to get one side some mercenaries and refit a big dropship, and watched from the sidelines as both the Aurigans and Taurians lost some major assets fighting over inconsequential worlds.
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Yeah. backing the border states have three benefits:
-You don't need to face your true opponent directly.
-You don't need to face the freedom fighter, and lets your true opponent to face their fierce hatred instead.
-It means you are actually show mercy to them, so they will like you and fight for you even if something is gone wrong.
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yeah . . . the AC was a client state for the Magistry? Also why they would not be recognized by others as readily.
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Honestly, the coalition limping along would at least explain why that area of space remains untouched for 150 years. The most plausible result to me seems to be that the attempt to centralize government fails, and after Kamea the coalition reverts to what is effectively a trade partnership between various small ruling houses and planetary governments (which is more or less it’s state at the start of 3025).
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As long as the more valuable planets retain some kind of mutual defense pact, it's probably not worth the effort to attack the coalition: too little gain for the effort involved. That doesn't require an active central government, although the AC could very well still exist in name, but with no real authority or outside recognition beyond the couple of planets at the very core. Whether Kamea or her successor(s) still govern isn't all that relevant.
If the AC is a going concern, with a sizable military force and control over a dozen or more planets, then their lack of mention on the maps becomes a lot less plausible, and Comstar certainly can't hide their presence from the Magistracy and Taurians. Fronc would know about them, but might not have any direct concerns if they're not in some kind of dispute over any planets, particularly if they're nearby but not actually bordering them.
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Yeah - I sort of imagine something that hovers between a collection of random worlds and pirate kingdoms, and a real state. Economically stable enough, with enough local coordination on defense, to make then a hassle to conquer and not a raiding threat. Like a tiny HRE. There are references in the book to the centrifugal forces in the AC, and it makes sense to me that this area would end up losing most real central authority after Kamea is gone.
In that scenario, it really is potentially more useful to the bordering states as an ignored buffer zone and place for their corps to acquire cheap raw reaources.
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Another RecGuide reference to the Aurigan Coalition and Restoration War . . . great shoutout to the game where a mech was left standing in the DZ as a dropship came in.
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Another RecGuide reference to the Aurigan Coalition and Restoration War . . . great shoutout to the game where a mech was left standing in the DZ as a dropship came in.
I thought that was hilarious. Even I've misclicked and had a dropship squish one of my veteran mechwarriors before. Ultimate headslap situation.....
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I'm going to go with still around but not listed on the maps as not important enough to mention or able to convince enough big boys to not mention and leave them alone. On the other hand, we can have the Aurigan Coalition be part of an alternate but very similar timeline. May add a wrinkle or two but won't impact the overall storyline.
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As a loose coalition of planets with mutual defense and trade agreements, they're no threat to outsiders, while providing both a source of raw materials and a market for nearby manufacturers, but can throw the military weight of the entire coalition against any invader who might want to snag a planet. Basically, they're better left as a safe, harmless neighbor and a neutral buffer zone.
As a centralized state (what the Directorate was trying to achieve), they become a threat to the neighbors, and will inevitably be in competition with the existing powers in the region (TC, MC). I don't think Kamea could maintain the level of control necessary to turn the coalition into a centralized power, so it would gradually lapse back into the loose arrangement that worked before. It's not on the maps because it's not really a "state", but more like a coalition of independent planets with a central location to negotiate and organize their mutual defense if needed.
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I do hope the Aurigan Coalition survives into the later eras, since they had a nice vibe as the Carribean/Spanish/Dutch/Oceanic island chain BT equivalent. Their Battlemech military forces post Reclamation are pretty low power, counting 3 light mech companies, the heavier Royal Guard Battalion, their special forces heavy Rampart Company, and 5 companies of mercs as of 3026. That's one regiment of mechs, which isn't a big threat to any of the powers in the region other then pirates. I can see a rebuilt Coaltion acting as an aide to the Fronc Reaches and the smaller Periphery powers against pirate bands and potential territorial grabs from other powers.
Keeping trade relations going with the other evolving powers would allow the AC to rebuild and still not influence the timeline.
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There's a strong reason for the neighbouring states to pass on a smidgen of support to the AC: it keeps the area relatively stable, under control, and from slipping into piracy.
When things go awry, it's easier to find an accountable party too.
So yes, the AC is still around, just trudging along with a near non-existent central government and mutual defense agreements amongst its member planets with some intelligence sharing and trade.
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I keep hoping that HBS will do a Battletech 2 and have it kick off at the start of the 4th SW, continuing the story of the Aurigan Coalition from 3028 into the 3030s. There is a lot of opportunity left for story telling left in that region - and it could focus more on the paranoia of the TC about a potential Davion invasion (that never came) and lashing out at the weaker AC in order to be able to focus on the 'inevitable' Davion front.
Until we get something more concrete, I'm in the camp that the AC likely sputtered out and was absorbed by other powers in the region (even if their planets don't merit mention on maps). I also like the idea of an Aurigan 'Exodus' to Aurigae with the remnants of the collapsing Coalition striking out to escape the 4th SW or Clan invasion.
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You know that the start of the 4SW is technically within the realm of the HBS play time?
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The other option is the state trudged along into the 3050's when after the Clan Invasion the WoB made the entire state 'fall off the map'.
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My guess? It probably declined in the 3030's to 3060's to the point where it was just a couple worlds around a central government on Cormodir, at least as part of any actual interstellar entity. Other worlds might have considered themselves part of an Aurigan Coalition, but not really. Independent in fact, though not in legal technicality - and ComStar really had bigger issues to deal with during this time than the status of one of who knows how many pocket empires out in the Periphery.
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and that much lostech in the area.. of course Comstar would show how to get there, right... :-P
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Well, we got a firm start date for the civil war if we did not have it before- 3022 when Espinosa assumed control.
But what happens to the Aurigan Coalition? Well, we are finding out in 3025, after the Iberia augered in that Coromodir VI is expecting a decade long 'nuclear winter' from the impact which is heavily impacting the planet's ability to feed itself. A crash program was created to turn current farmland into massive greenhouses to provide local food. A observer says the the Arano palace is a gleaming edifice at that time.
Ten years of nuclear winter on the capital is going to strain any political system, especially with some of the old Directorate troops still engaging in civil unrest.
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Don't think the Coalition will endure those 10 years. The most logical scenario is for it to break up into independent worlds and fade away pretty fast as an entity.
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Yeah, the 'Iberia winter' which was something like what they were calling it would put a huge strain besides the normal ones of a civil war. Piling on the usual resentments between regions, or in this case planets, of the nation you now have them supporting the national capital with food and other resources that will feel like a drain to everyone else long before those 10 years are up. Noted in the story was that what the Directorate looted from the other Houses & planets was not returned but rather sold as the spoils of war by the Coalition government. This was conveyed by the example of a Powerman IndiMech that had been used for decades in the mining on Itrom, taken by Directorate centralization, and then captured by Arano's forces at some point. The IndiMech was sold- not even told how, auction? direct?- to a different company than had owned so the Coalition could get some currency into their coffers. The Civil War was fought under a banner calling itself the Restoration, a call to return to pre-coup days . . . and yet those who had property stolen do not get it restored? Bad taste for many involved.
Even after 10 years and they can start growing things again or supporting livestock . . . the soil is going to be in poor shape- and you would have to deal with erosion by wind & water. Most of the land will not have been converted to greenhouses, farms would have been abandoned and definitely gone bankrupt . . . so when you CAN start using the land, who wants that risk? who would be able to buy the land, seed, livestock, or tools? Who has the knowledge- b/c the farmers are not going to sit around for the next 10 years, they will either immigrate somewhere else or shift into another industry.
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Tha tis the bit i liked the most about the house arano book. How Lady Kamea is a second Director in all but name, not a restored high lady with a working council to check her power. The irony of it was really nice.
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Tha tis the bit i liked the most about the house arano book. How Lady Kamea is a second Director in all but name, not a restored high lady with a working council to check her power. The irony of it was really nice.
She became the Devil she defeated. Which is how the universe works in Battletech somedays.
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Although I really enjoyed the story on Shrapnel, it's difficult for me to imagine how a downed dropship can create a nuclear winter, even if it is a "short" one of only 10 years.
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When was the dropship downed, and how fast was it going?
If it was on final approach and had already bled off all the transit velocity, then it wouldn't be a huge problem.
If it was hit further out before it had a chance to appreciably slow down, then... well, it's not terribly different from a serious meteor strike.
It's all about the velocity.
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When was the dropship downed, and how fast was it going?
If it was on final approach and had already bled off all the transit velocity, then it wouldn't be a huge problem.
If it was hit further out before it had a chance to appreciably slow down, then... well, it's not terribly different from a serious meteor strike.
It's all about the velocity.
Spoilers (just in case someone hasn't played the game yet and want to do it):
It's from the videogame. A Fortress-class dropship crashes on Coromodir after being disabled by a virus. If I remember correctly, it happened before entrance to the atmosphere, when the dropship was already slowing its approach, and then it crashed on the planet.
But by the description of the Shrapnel story it seemed like the issue was the radioactive drive of the dropship that created the mini nuclear winter. In any case I don't see either as a cause for that disaster. After all there are a lot of dropships falling to planets in novels and none provokes anything other than a fireball.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the story and I thing it created a very interesting scenario for the Aurigan Coalition, tense, and not very hopeful for its future.
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It could be a super sensitive atmosphere, not all worlds are as habitable as earth. This event could have pushed it, unlikely I'd think
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It could be a super sensitive atmosphere, not all worlds are as habitable as earth. This event could have pushed it, unlikely I'd think
It isn't uncommon in BT, there are/were a lot of planets with fragile ecosystems.
But there might of course have been something special in the cargo of the DropShip.
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Might also be how much dust and dirt were pumped into the atmosphere. Lot of dust could cause colder temps because that dust would stay in the atmosphere and block sunlight. This colder for a decade. It is the definition of nuclear winter originally.
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It isn't uncommon in BT, there are/were a lot of planets with fragile ecosystems.
But there might of course have been something special in the cargo of the DropShip.
Salted bombs that were designed to cause ecosystem damage? The material from the bomb might only cause damage for half a year, but if repairing from that damage can take over 9 years that could work.
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But by the description of the Shrapnel story it seemed like the issue was the radioactive drive of the dropship that created the mini nuclear winter. In any case I don't see either as a cause for that disaster. After all there are a lot of dropships falling to planets in novels and none provokes anything other than a fireball.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the story and I thing it created a very interesting scenario for the Aurigan Coalition, tense, and not very hopeful for its future.
Radiation in and of itself doesn't cause nuclear winter. And also... umm... fusion drives aren't that kind of radioactive.
A ship that hasn't finished its deceleration could smack the planet pretty hard and throw up a hefty cloud of particulates though.
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I wonder what happens if you throw dropship specs into one of those asteroid impact simulators...
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I wonder what happens if you throw dropship specs into one of those asteroid impact simulators...
I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt
Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle
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I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt
Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle
It would count on what the dropship is hitting. A dusty plain of fine dirt and sand. And gravity would have a few things to say. A lighter gravity world would allow that fine particulates to go higher and stay up longer.
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I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt
Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle
Velocity covereth a multitude of sins.
If you just drop a dropship from high orbit (no starting velocity), that will still be equivalent to kilotons of energy, but like you imply, it's not moving fast enough. It'll break apart and spread that energy out over a wide area before it can do anything significant.
If it's close enough on its final approach when things go wrong, then the same result. Still not moving fast enough.
The further out it's sabotaged, the more velocity it has. If it has enough velocity, it doesn't have a chance to break apart before the massive fireball it creates reaches the ground and kicks up material. Maybe a lot of material.
And by the time a dropship would normally be beginning its deceleration leg on the way into this system (based on oublished transit times) it would be moving at about 1% C. Not tens or hundreds or even thousands of meters per second, but literally millions.
I assume the failure occurred later in the deceleration leg and the ship had bled off a good part of that velocity, just because if it failed earlier it might have screwed up the approach so badly it missed the planet. But still, there's a lot of energy to potentially smack the planet with.
Even a fly can go through a windshield if it's moving fast enough.
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Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:
- If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
- The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
- That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.
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Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:
- If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
- The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
- That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.
From the game cut scene, 17:30 or so.
https://youtu.be/q_b5Rl0JvG8
It looks like it came down from just below the Karman Line and impacted into hills. Probably threw up a lot of dust.
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Yeah, I've seen the scene (a few times)...
...I just thought it was interesting that it essentially amounts to Rule of Cool territory. I'd never thought to model it before.
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Interesting things that I've learned playing with earth impact simulators:
- If you drop a Fortress-class sized rock on a city, you'll destroy it.
- The density of the Fortress-class dropship is the biggest barrier to making craters (even going ridiculous velocities, it breaks apart in the atmosphere).
- That said, with ridiculous velocities, you can make an absolutely prodigious fireball in the atmosphere with one, assuming that it hits at speed.
Bolded for emphasis . . . that is a known flaw with the designs- basically ye olde FASA was not great with math. IIRC cray laughed the mass vs dimensions off saying a dropship was akin to a beachball. You could say the dropship impact results would be realistic IF the dropship volume to mass ratio was realistic.
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I'm not an expert but I would have thought it would be more density than Mass or speed to throw up that amount of dirt
Most DropShips would be like a fly hitting a windshield of a moving vehicle
It’s energy that kicks up dirt, and energy is proportional to the object’s mass and the square of its velocity. Density plays an indirect role; if it’s denser, it’ll have a smaller projected area so it’ll lose less velocity due to air resistance. The density of the atmosphere plays into that as well.
I looked up Skylab and it was several times more dense than a Fortress despite being flimsy and unlandable. That’s the density issue Stormy and Colt are talking about. It was small (85 tons) and fell from orbit, so no surprise that it didn’t do a whole lot.
For what it’s worth, the meteor that created Meteor Crater in AZ is estimated to have weighed 200,000 to 300,000 tons. A Fortress is 6,000. When I played the game I got the feeling that the dropship had slowed down before being infected, so I’m skeptical about this whole thing. I would’ve gone with something like, “...and lo, the dropship did fall onto the planet’s water vapor emitter, and a Star League artifact was lost, and the grain fields of [continent] did revert to frozen tundra.” But I admit, the Fortress causing direct harm is more dramatic.
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Make it explode like a current nuclear bomb (but clean, so we do not have incovenient radiation at the point of impact) and the problem is saved as well.
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Given the Aurigan Coalition's worlds were colonized after the restoration war/during the Star League era, it's predecessor (the Aurigan Trade Partnership) is noted to exist shortly after Star League, and Aurigans in the games speaking favorably of Star League and Ian Cameron (atypical for Periphery dwellers, especially in their neck of the woods) and the presence of a SLDF cache I think there's a case to be made that the Reach was settled during Star League by the Terran Hegemony.
That... might also go a ways towards explaining why the Concordate is so quick to assume hostility from the Coalition, and why it's got better ties with the Magistracy. Old baggage.
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(Remember Taurians are NOT signatories of the Ares Conventions).
Side comment: No one is a signatory of the Ares Conventions anymore. The Houses all formally withdrew in 2786. And that's after the Star League suspended the Conventions for the Reunification War in 2575.
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Side comment: No one is a signatory of the Ares Conventions anymore. The Houses all formally withdrew in 2786. And that's after the Star League suspended the Conventions for the Reunification War in 2575.
Which is why Grayson being on about it like it was still in force/use in the latest stuff was weird. Dead letter for over 400 years.
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Which is why Grayson being on about it like it was still in force/use in the latest stuff was weird. Dead letter for over 400 years.
Probably because they've had three succession wars to figure out that while they technically don't need to abide by it, unofficially it's actually a really really good idea.
So yeah, you technically could glass a planet with nukes and raise the flag over whatever remains, but you really don't want to because other people will do it to you. So you justify it when other people ask by saying that the Ares Convention forbids such and such an action.
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Probably because they've had three succession wars to figure out that while they technically don't need to abide by it, unofficially it's actually a really really good idea.
So yeah, you technically could glass a planet with nukes and raise the flag over whatever remains, but you really don't want to because other people will do it to you. So you justify it when other people ask by saying that the Ares Convention forbids such and such an action.
While Ares Conventions might be a dead treaty, the ideal behind them still applies, and, let's face it, for the most part the Ares Conventions were mostly adhered to during the later half, at least, of the 3rd Succession War, and, even during the 4th, for the most part. Even the Clans pretty much adhered to them in principle(The Jags were censured for Turtle Bay, after all). Technically, no-one is a signatory, but everyone just agrees to follow to a greater or lesser degree. I also think that Mercenaries, not being state actors, followed them a) because first Comstar then the MRBC kinda liked them, and b) Who is going to want to hire Mercs who are willing to gas or virus bomb civilians to win a city fight(because the military stuff is pretty safe from that)?
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Probably because they've had three succession wars to figure out that while they technically don't need to abide by it, unofficially it's actually a really really good idea.
There's a LOT more to the Ares Conventions than not "glassing a planet with nukes."
The complete Ares Conventions:
1. Generally ended a battle when opponents were outmaneuvered and checkmated
2. Allowed "time outs" for medics and coolants trucks to enter the battle field
3. Resulted in combat being largely bloodless
As noted in the older version of Strategic Operations, the 150 years of the Age of War fought under the Conventions killed about the same number of people as the 2-year Fourth Succession War, or the last 15 years of the Third Succession War.
You'd be hard pressed to find a single Third Succession War battle that obeyed the Ares Conventions. Most of the knockdown, bloody (but nuke free!) brawls of the late Succession Wars wiped their butts with the Conventions.
...for the most part the Ares Conventions were mostly adhered to during the later half, at least, of the 3rd Succession War, and, even during the 4th, for the most part.
Very few elements of the Ares Conventions were respected during the late Succession Wars. The late Succession Wars came up with their own unwritten rules of warfare that forbade WMDs (unlike the Ares Conventions, which allows nukes in some cases) and had some tacit guidelines for treatment of prisoners, not shooting 'Mechs hooked up to coolant trucks, and the like. However, those are not the Ares Conventions.
p. 247, Strategic Operations:
I will comment on some past publications and recent media
pronouncements regarding the destruction of space stations
and JumpShips in the current conflicts around the Inner
Sphere. There is a lot of crying about “violations of the Ares
Conventions” when a civilian space station is destroyed. Well,
it’s true the Ares Conventions ruled against attacking civilian
targets, including space stations, but the Ares Conventions
ruled against virtually every other aspect of modern warfare.
Just as an example of how much was banned under the
Conventions, all the battles that obeyed the Ares Conventions
between 2412 and 2575 killed fewer soldiers than the two-year
Fourth Succession War, or the last fifteen years of the Third
Succession War. Conflicts under the Conventions were wars of
maneuver, with opponents often surrendering when “checkmated.”
Pauses in battle were allowed for medics and coolant
units to enter a battlefield. That’s right, there were “timeouts”
under the Conventions.
(remaining paragraphs are in Old StratOps, p. 247)
The old House Sourcebooks and Star League Sourcebook also go into some depth about the Ares Conventions and its thousands of pages of rules, restrictions, and bloodless warfare.
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The old House Sourcebooks and Star League Sourcebook also go into some depth about the Ares Conventions and its thousands of pages of rules, restrictions, and bloodless warfare.
In essence the Ares convention were the codified version of the old Terran Hegemony warfare principle. They were von Clausewitz famous "war is the continuation of poloitics by different means" quote in writing. After all war is meaningless when your opponent destroys the target you intent to capture. That is also what the 1st and 2nd succession Wars were: often the loosing side decided to destroy infrastructure or attacked with recklnessness to deny their opponents the use of specific production lines. just as it happened in the PÜentagon civil war which is noted as being even more destructive then the succession Wars in the IS.The Clans and their zellbrigen rules are borrowing from the concept (before the Refusal trial and the following years the Clans usually fought on a designated field to obtain a trialed for mine or production line or what have you) nut are not having all the rules in them
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While Ares Conventions might be a dead treaty, the ideal behind them still applies, and, let's face it, for the most part the Ares Conventions were mostly adhered to during the later half, at least, of the 3rd Succession War, and, even during the 4th, for the most part.
This. I got frustrated with everybody in Rock and a Hard Place acting like Righteous Paladin Grayson is an anomaly for not wanting to kill civilians by truckloads.
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This. I got frustrated with everybody in Rock and a Hard Place acting like Righteous Paladin Grayson is an anomaly for not wanting to kill civilians by truckloads.
Problem is, it is not in force and it is mostly the culture/societal norms that hold those restraints in place. OMG the Ares Convention! does not matter . . . WTF, we kill civies and no one will hire us- does matter. Further, there ARE a truckload of circumstances where non-combatants are no longer shielded by that status. Or they can fall under reprisal.
To go back to the bit about the DS . . . we have no idea how fast the DS was coming in, because the stop motion or cut scene style of action has not been the most consistent with movement. Like you can see the shells flying from ACs much easier than it if was a video.
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Problem is, it is not in force and it is mostly the culture/societal norms that hold those restraints in place.
Yes, but they are in place. By the era the book is set, wanton killing of civilians would be unusual, but Grayson is talked about like he's unusual for wanting to keep civilians out of the line of fire. Keith just tries too hard to sell us on what a great guy his protagonist is - I don't know if the editors told him to dial it up because they thought there would be new readers unfamiliar with the old GDL books or what.
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Yes, but they are in place. By the era the book is set, wanton killing of civilians would be unusual, but Grayson is talked about like he's unusual for wanting to keep civilians out of the line of fire.
The book is set immediately following the events on Helm when the FWL troops (spurred on by Comstar [Pay your bills] misinformation) decimated the GDL support staff and families on Helm. This also was after Trellwan where the DC used a Marauder to take apart the town looking for him and Verthandi where the Red Hunter's troops were not trying to win over hearts and minds with the local civilians. I can see why Carlyle & Co. would have a heightened concern for avoiding civilian casualties.
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Well, House Arano and the Aurigan Coalition has showed up in fiction again . . . though not sure what is up with Harbinger Company or Kamea's attitude towards increasing the nation's mech numbers. I could have done without the heavy dumping of Polynesian culture into the story rather than introducing lighter amounts. We had not gotten any beyond a bare overlay in the previous story and this one had all sorts of things thrown in.
Unfortunately, it also looks like they have Kamea perhaps dealing with the stress badly? believing the ends justify the means- IE continuing her uncle's policies?
Oh, and a Enforcer is 'death'? Mentioned in the same line as the Atlas?
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Polynesian you say? Now I want my Maui demi-god to pilot something that can jump, run and swing a fish hook shaped melee weapon!!!
Your welcome!... xp
TT
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Well, House Arano and the Aurigan Coalition has showed up in fiction again . . . though not sure what is up with Harbinger Company or Kamea's attitude towards increasing the nation's mech numbers. I could have done without the heavy dumping of Polynesian culture into the story rather than introducing lighter amounts. We had not gotten any beyond a bare overlay in the previous story and this one had all sorts of things thrown in.
Unfortunately, it also looks like they have Kamea perhaps dealing with the stress badly? believing the ends justify the means- IE continuing her uncle's policies?
Oh, and a Enforcer is 'death'? Mentioned in the same line as the Atlas?
I do not mind the cultural stuff as worldbuilding in Battletech is good. I was also intrigued that this story continued the same thru line from the House Arano sourcebook about her continuing the same centralizing policies as her uncle, including seizing and keeping privately own mechs. Maybe I misread the story, but it did seem it was weighing in the direction of justifying Kamea's actions.
I do want more Aurigan Coalition stories, including some Pre-Directorate stuff and answering the question of what happened to them and why we never heard of any aurigans in-universe past 3050.
I will reiterate that I believe that Kyalla withdrew Magistracy recognition and support of the Coalition to keep the Taurians off her back during the Andurien Secession. Taurians do not even give lip service to the Ares Conventions, so NBC is entirely on the table as they see the FedSuns distracted with the 4SW and finally deal with the Aurigans(who they see as secessionists).
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Man, all the factions i like, keep getting themselves wiped out. :)
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I do not mind the cultural stuff as worldbuilding in Battletech is good. I was also intrigued that this story continued the same thru line from the House Arano sourcebook about her continuing the same centralizing policies as her uncle, including seizing and keeping privately own mechs. Maybe I misread the story, but it did seem it was weighing in the direction of justifying Kamea's actions.
I do want more Aurigan Coalition stories, including some Pre-Directorate stuff and answering the question of what happened to them and why we never heard of any aurigans in-universe past 3050.
I will reiterate that I believe that Kyalla withdrew Magistracy recognition and support of the Coalition to keep the Taurians off her back during the Andurien Secession. Taurians do not even give lip service to the Ares Conventions, so NBC is entirely on the table as they see the FedSuns distracted with the 4SW and finally deal with the Aurigans(who they see as secessionists).
Well, that's essentially the idea I had when I created the thread. I really think the Aurigan Coalition falls not long after, probably around 3030s at most, as either invasion or internal problems dissolve the union. I want to use it in a mercenary campaign of ATOW, as the characters play an important role in that fall.
But in any case I think that the Coalition really doesn't survive. If they don't fall under a foreign invasion (Taurians probably), they dissolve and maybe Kamea still rules Coromodir, but nothing else, and all member worlds are simply now independent (which means that some of those will fail, as many times has happened in Battletech lore).
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Please forgive me if this has already been asked but what if the Aurigan Coalition didn't fall? What if it comes down to decades worth of maps being made and the Coalition being a new addition?
Do we know if it had major problems post restoration?
If it did get "conquered" then I'd be ok with it being the Taurians or maybe dissolves as a state. The pro-directorate remnants could be a part of that. Would make for a good continuing story.
Then the Coalition goes back to being trade worlds and not a true state; much in the same way it's looked at anyway. As long as those damn target practice Capellans didn't get any of it I'm ok.
Knowing if the Auriagans did fall for sure or not would help me come up with some potential backstory I'd like to make for a mercenary company I'd make if/when I get my hands on the KS.
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Problem is later on some of their worlds and sphere of influence ends up with a listed faction. This is what leads to the assumption that something happened between the end of the game (and now the follow up fiction) and when we see developments in that region in the 3050s when the New Colony Region/Fronc Reaches becomes important enough to make the maps.
ComStar could have also been working to keep the Houses and even other big Periphery realms from moving in or taking a interest in the area, the Coalition was positioned where the Star League had sort of set up their own zone for a nodal force to respond to either MoC or TC before the revolt kicked off. What we really do not know is if that region is normal or abnormal for Star League remains because AFAIK the Coalition worlds and even transit systems is the most detailed small region in BTU. Sure we get a lot of worlds that have more history and detail but their immediate neighbors? No, we get details on worlds/systems 5-10 jumps away with a intervening blank space. SO does ComStar downplay the region because the sudden explosion of lostech materials and facilities found in the late 3020s and they want to sanitize the area? Or is it a normal representation of a Star League 'armor belt' (think US rust belt) that can be found in the periphery outside the borders of the SL-era Periphery realms?
As a power they also raise the question of what does it take to rise above ComStar's periphery bias. Good old Blake had a prejudice against the Periphery and it lived on in his organization while also being useful for old ComStar's manipulation of the Inner Sphere. Pirates, out of sight R&D worlds, places to build secret armies . . . ComStar has used the Periphery as a covert playground for what they spring on the Houses.
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Unfortunately, it also looks like they have Kamea perhaps dealing with the stress badly? believing the ends justify the means- IE continuing her uncle's policies?
That sounds like a pretty clear-cut misreading regarding Kamea's speech at the end of the game or even the plot in and of itself-considering she seems very much a means-justify-the-ends sort, regardless of what her original reasons (Getting cheated out of it by betrayal) for wanting the throne back were. While I get the in-universe Kamea isn't exactly the same, her changing as a person and genuinely going out of her way to be a benevolent ruler even unto annihilation makes far more sense.
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From what we are given she maintained the centralization of power in the High Lordship/High Ladyship but did not keep the repressive and police state actions that the Directorate used. She generally has the support of most of the worlds and their ruling Houses.
She also gained control of all of House Espinosa's assets and their world, giving her complete control of the most populated system in the Reach, which is also one of the most technologically and industrially developed. She also has Guldra and House Maderia more or less completely in her pocket which gives her the Breadbasket of the Reach. And Smithon lost its ruling House so that is also de facto under her complete control. She has most of the power in the Reach no matter what she decides to do.
The outer worlds are the ones she loses in the decades to come and those were fairly recently added to the Aurigan Coalition. And it is likely ComStar just removed them from the maps anyways. Since no one recognized them as a legitimate state no reason to mark the maps with them. And since most of the worlds are also marked as uninhabited they don't actually count as being part of whatever color border happens to go over them.
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How many systems do the Aurigans add to the map anyway? I recall, probably incorrectly, that that area was kind of barren before HBS took it up.
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How many systems do the Aurigans add to the map anyway? I recall, probably incorrectly, that that area was kind of barren before HBS took it up.
It is the opposite in fact. All the systems that are part of the Aurigan Reach already existed. There was just little information on them. The systems were there and that was about it. The reason the game and book is set there was to add to the lore without contradicting anything that came before.
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So in a sense, a micro- House in a House Realm...
Hmm...
Wonder if CGL would create others or more appropriate, flesh out more realms. Mica, Niops and any other micro state that has a one liner.
Even in a PDF format...
TT
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So in a sense, a micro- House in a House Realm...
Hmm...
Wonder if CGL would create others or more appropriate, flesh out more realms. Mica, Niops and any other micro state that has a one liner.
Even in a PDF format...
TT
Return on Investment . . . the only reason we got this was they harvested video game data that did not conflcit and enough people had played/were interested that it was not a loser to back the project.
Honestly, we would be more likely to get a Kentares SB (MW4 & sequels), something about the worlds of MW4 Mercs, or wherever MW5 takes place. The latter is most likely as it is most recent.
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The Aurigan Reach is actually still a decent place to set more stories in. Go into why or how they lost some of their outer colonies to the Concordat. Show how that is being dealt with. Maybe follow the story of a new House rising to replace either the place of House Espinosa or House Karosas. Could also go further into the past and see the Aurigan Coalition be built from the Old Trade union. Another story could be in the time post 4SW up to the Clan Invasion. The Aurigans trying to get recognition or dealing with pirates and the fallout of the Capellan being smashed.
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Karosas will IMO be replaced by the regent Kamea appointed, it is a common enough story though history.
After the Clan Invasion they have a real problem . . . all their neighbors join into a alliance, and the region between gets dealt with like it is a dependency- see what happens with New Colonies Region/Fronc and Detroit.
Now the Jihad would open up opportunities, the Taurians pulled out of the Trinity and split in two . . . it would be interesting to see Kamea's successor & that whatever for that state was in ally with the Taurians.
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Karosas will IMO be replaced by the regent Kamea appointed, it is a common enough story though history.
After the Clan Invasion they have a real problem . . . all their neighbors join into a alliance, and the region between gets dealt with like it is a dependency- see what happens with New Colonies Region/Fronc and Detroit.
Now the Jihad would open up opportunities, the Taurians pulled out of the Trinity and split in two . . . it would be interesting to see Kamea's successor & that whatever for that state was in ally with the Taurians.
The Regent isn't doing anything. They were also just put there because they needed someone to be there. So all the Regent does is follow whatever Kamea tells her to do. They are also looking for anyone that could have a blood tie to take over the House.
The development of the Trinity alliance would actually be a boon for whatever was left of the Aurigan Coalition. Along with the New Colony Region as well. Those things would create a major increase in traffic and trade along the entire area which is what the Aurigan Reach lived off of. So jumpships and convoys going through their territory to get to one of the fours areas.
When the Taurians break the alliance during the Jihad I could see the Aurigans going to either the Capellan or Taurian sides. At least, at first, for the Taurians before they go super crazy with their blatant war crimes. The Aurigans would ally with the Taurians mostly out of self-preservation because the Taurians might decide to attack them if they don't. The Capellans might provide tech and more money in an alliance but they are also far less likely to even try and help the Aurigans if they were attacked. The Fronc Reach is a bit too weak, The MoC and Protectorate too far and/or an enemy of the Concordant that would just cause an Invasion. With the FedSuns having the same problem of the Protectorate being an enemy only on a bigger scale.
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Lol, I meant it when I suggested check out what happens in history with regents for nobility . . . the de jure power of the regent becomes, at some point, official de facto power of the regent. King Henry VIII selected his in-laws to be Edward's heir for a reason- they could not gain the power of the Kingship in their own names, but by ensuring his survival and being crowned it would be the means to their having access to power & it's economic benefits. For an example of how it goes badly you merely need to look at the infamous case of the Two Princes of the Tower- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower). The longer such a regency exists, the more likely the regent is to take the actual power into their hands. BT's own regencies have problems- look at what happened with the Camerons, it is how Aramis was able to reach the levers of power due to a vacuum around the throne. Kerensky failed in his duty as regent, he should have handed over the regular operations of the SLDF when he became Regent- it was no longer his primary duty.
The Karosas regent could even be more zealously following Kamea's instructions in the hope of ascending the vacant seat. Besides . . . overseeing the official investigation into finding possible heirs is a great way to to either disqualify candidates or make sure they have tragic accidents . . .
Trinity Alliance did not help the New Colony Region- they LOST Detroit with it's industry and just restored mech production. The area was a economic doormat to the Trinity powers w/o any recourse or political leverage. Sun-Tzu was interested in restoring everything to the Capellan Confederation they once owned, some of the planets in that region were under Cappies auspices during the Star League era. They would not have received the attention of the Chaos March, but the Trinity Alliance allows all parties to extend spheres of influence into the un-aligned worlds without the risk of setting off a neighbor.
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Lol, I meant it when I suggested check out what happens in history with regents for nobility . . . the de jure power of the regent becomes, at some point, official de facto power of the regent. King Henry VIII selected his in-laws to be Edward's heir for a reason- they could not gain the power of the Kingship in their own names, but by ensuring his survival and being crowned it would be the means to their having access to power & it's economic benefits. For an example of how it goes badly you merely need to look at the infamous case of the Two Princes of the Tower- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower). The longer such a regency exists, the more likely the regent is to take the actual power into their hands. BT's own regencies have problems- look at what happened with the Camerons, it is how Aramis was able to reach the levers of power due to a vacuum around the throne. Kerensky failed in his duty as regent, he should have handed over the regular operations of the SLDF when he became Regent- it was no longer his primary duty.
The Karosas regent could even be more zealously following Kamea's instructions in the hope of ascending the vacant seat. Besides . . . overseeing the official investigation into finding possible heirs is a great way to to either disqualify candidates or make sure they have tragic accidents . . .
Trinity Alliance did not help the New Colony Region- they LOST Detroit with it's industry and just restored mech production. The area was a economic doormat to the Trinity powers w/o any recourse or political leverage. Sun-Tzu was interested in restoring everything to the Capellan Confederation they once owned, some of the planets in that region were under Cappies auspices during the Star League era. They would not have received the attention of the Chaos March, but the Trinity Alliance allows all parties to extend spheres of influence into the un-aligned worlds without the risk of setting off a neighbor.
Except the "regent" doesn't do anything. That is her entire character she makes no moves and only follows orders to watch over the planet. She is also not involved at all in looking for a new heir.
I didn't say the trinity alliance helped the NCR. I said that with the alliance and the New Colony region that trade in the whole area would be increased because traffic would be growing through there as the shortest route to get to each other.
And yet not one of the planets was ever taken by the Capellans at any point. They are all marks as uninhabited not as controlled by the Capellan. Unlike the systems that were marked as being taken over by the Taurians. Again the color around them doesn't matter unless the planet is marked.
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Lol, if the Regent does nothing overseeing the day to day operations for the House then there is no point in having one- that is the de jure/de facto power slip point.
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Lol, if the Regent does nothing overseeing the day to day operations for the House then there is no point in having one- that is the de jure/de facto power slip point.
I didn't say they don't deal with day to day. Though the one put doesn't really. They are straight up noted and described as nothing more than competent and does nothing more than give status reports to the council. No power play no attempts to curry favor. Not even working with the other council member besides taking orders from Alexander. Not excatly the best person for the job nor one that would make a satisfying storyline to follow.
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I see a clear plot point though. A real schemer wull send really bland boring and matter of factoy reports to the council. And at the same time he wull be building a local power base.
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I see a clear plot point though. A real schemer wull send really bland boring and matter of factoy reports to the council. And at the same time he wull be building a local power base.
Were it any other planet that might have worked. But Kamea made it a point of making sure Smithon and Panzyr in particular were being rebuilt as best as she could. Those two and Smithon more so would be under a lot more scrutiny for the regent to try that. And with either Kamea or Alexander being in charge they wouldn't really be able to hide that. The regent specifically doesn't try to rock the boat because she is only temporary and also because the planet is kind of bad.
She might be doing that but for what purpose would she get out of it. All she would accomplish is pissing off the much more powerful overlords and new peers by that action. So not a smart move for her to take.
Like I said a better story would be to go further back in time to the founding and initial expansion of the Aurigan Coalition. Show what they did and how they won over the region. Hell follow House Espinosa and show why they were the right hand of the High Lords.
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Lol, I meant it when I suggested check out what happens in history with regents for nobility . . . the de jure power of the regent becomes, at some point, official de facto power of the regent. King Henry VIII selected his in-laws to be Edward's heir for a reason- they could not gain the power of the Kingship in their own names, but by ensuring his survival and being crowned it would be the means to their having access to power & it's economic benefits. For an example of how it goes badly you merely need to look at the infamous case of the Two Princes of the Tower- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_in_the_Tower). The longer such a regency exists, the more likely the regent is to take the actual power into their hands. BT's own regencies have problems- look at what happened with the Camerons, it is how Aramis was able to reach the levers of power due to a vacuum around the throne. Kerensky failed in his duty as regent, he should have handed over the regular operations of the SLDF when he became Regent- it was no longer his primary duty.
The Karosas regent could even be more zealously following Kamea's instructions in the hope of ascending the vacant seat. Besides . . . overseeing the official investigation into finding possible heirs is a great way to to either disqualify candidates or make sure they have tragic accidents . . .
Trinity Alliance did not help the New Colony Region- they LOST Detroit with it's industry and just restored mech production. The area was a economic doormat to the Trinity powers w/o any recourse or political leverage. Sun-Tzu was interested in restoring everything to the Capellan Confederation they once owned, some of the planets in that region were under Cappies auspices during the Star League era. They would not have received the attention of the Chaos March, but the Trinity Alliance allows all parties to extend spheres of influence into the un-aligned worlds without the risk of setting off a neighbor.
you act like every regency has resulted in a hostile take over of the throne, this isn't true at all.
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The entire purpose of a regency is to enable take over of the throne. It's not at all surprising that the take over in question results in something other than the intended ward assuming the throne... ^-^
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you act like every regency has resulted in a hostile take over of the throne, this isn't true at all.
Forgot about this . . .
Not every, but they happen often enough in history . . . and THIS regency has the problem that they are TRYING to find a proper heir rather than having one waiting in the wings. Which is why I said it could end up "Well, we looked and could find no one . . . but I will keep doing the job until we do."
I mean the Steward of Gondor ring any bells?
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Forgot about this . . .
Not every, but they happen often enough in history . . . and THIS regency has the problem that they are TRYING to find a proper heir rather than having one waiting in the wings. Which is why I said it could end up "Well, we looked and could find no one . . . but I will keep doing the job until we do."
I mean the Steward of Gondor ring any bells?
Well, in that case it was: The Kings of Gondor put the Stewards in charge until the Kings returned. It was meant and intended to be a long term Stewardship, not a single generation Regency....
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yes, and when the king returned the Steward did not want to release his hold on the power.
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There are cases where this happened, with the prospective king having an early meeting with lady death. Cassander and fhe sonnof alexander the great, for example. However, there are also cases where this was NOT the case. Jaume I of Catalonia, for example, or the tetrarchy system that Richard the Lionheart put in England (led by william marshall) working well enough.
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yes, and when the king returned the Steward did not want to release his hold on the power.
But Denethor was also completely crazy by that point. Faramir had no problem with letting Aragon reclaim the throne.
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Well, House Arano and the Aurigan Coalition has showed up in fiction again . . . though not sure what is up with Harbinger Company or Kamea's attitude towards increasing the nation's mech numbers. I could have done without the heavy dumping of Polynesian culture into the story rather than introducing lighter amounts. We had not gotten any beyond a bare overlay in the previous story and this one had all sorts of things thrown in.
Can I ask where to find said fiction?
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AURIGA FALLS NO MORE!
Sorry, had that stuck in my head for some reason. ;D
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Can I ask where to find said fiction?
Sharpnel
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Sharpnel the poster, or Shrapnel the magazine? ???
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Sharpnel the poster, or Shrapnel the magazine? ???
You damn well know what he meant. Come on now. ::)
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Actually, I don't. I spend a lot of my time in the Fan Fiction section, and I see Colt down there too.
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Actually, I don't. I spend a lot of my time in the Fan Fiction section, and I see Colt down there too.
I thought the context clues of him describing the Shrapnel story's details, plus the fact that we aren't in the Fan Fiction setting, were enough to make it fairly obvious.
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Feel free to think me as stupid as you like.
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Bold of you to assume I'll think of you at all. ;)
Anyways... Colt, which issue of Shrapnel is this in? I've got a passing interest in Aurigan fiction and I don't have the most recent issue of Shrapnel yet, is it in there?
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By all means, carry on. ;)
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Based on when I posted, it was probably #10?
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Thank you for the clarification. :)
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Based on when I posted, it was probably #10?
That's the last one I have (bought it for Kara's Scorchers, stayed for "A Trial Most Acceptable"), I'll dive into it. :)
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Sharpnel
Ah. Is Shrapnel digital only? The Catalyst Store shows only digital when I looked. Is there print issues?
Edit: outside of what I just saw on Amazon? To purchase directly?
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You can download them via DriveThru RPG (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/shrapnel-on-dtrpg/msg1820072/#msg1820072) as well.
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You can download them via DriveThru RPG (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/shrapnel-on-dtrpg/msg1820072/#msg1820072) as well.
I’m looking for print issues. To clarify. Apologize.
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I’m looking for print issues. To clarify. Apologize.
Afaik, there’s no classic print run of Shrapnel, but there's a print-on-demand option going with the digital distribution.
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Afaik, there’s no classic print run of Shrapnel, but there's a print-on-demand option going with the digital distribution.
Ah. I saw a “Paperback” listing on Amazon. That’s why I asked.
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I got a full printed version when I ordered my copy. Which is likely what the amazon paperback option is also for.
Kamea in it also seems to be little different than what she ended up being by the end of the war. A hardened and more pragmatic ruler willing to do what she needs to secure her hold. The House Arano source book also paints the same picture of her. Since she kept the centralized organization that her Uncle created to streamline the Reach.
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SO . . . trying to remember, but what was the name of the dropship Victoria blew up to cause the Taurians to side with her father as part of fearing the FedSuns were on the move? When did that happen?
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It was the Newgrange... I don't recall the date exactly.
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No, Newgrange is the one that Kamea's mercs destroyed that brought in Osterluude.
Victoria was yelling about why was her father surrendering making her covert destruction of a dropship to spike the Taurian paranoia irrelevant.
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It was the Iberia.
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I thought Iberia was Ostergaard's Fortress?
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I thought Iberia was Ostergaard's Fortress?
Yes it was, the boss ship that Locura virus took down
Victoria blew up something else
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I thought Iberia was Ostergaard's Fortress?
You're probably right. I barely remember the HBS game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yes it was, the boss ship that Locura virus took down
Victoria blew up something else
Thanks! At least I know I'm not totally crazy... ;)
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SO . . . trying to remember, but what was the name of the dropship Victoria blew up to cause the Taurians to side with her father as part of fearing the FedSuns were on the move? When did that happen?
I don't believe a dropship was involved - I think you're referring to her assisting with the Perdition massacre, which was a chemical weapons attack:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Perdition_Massacre
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Yeah, that's it! Talk about the very definition of FAFO! Especially with the Taurians... :D
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Correct. It was a chemical attack that Victoria did.
There was the dropship Newgrange that the Restoration forces destroyed, which was captained by Samuel Ostergaard II, son of the Commodore Samuel Ostergaard, which made the commodore go rogue when the Taurians retired their support to the Directorate. The commodore's Fortress Dropship was the Iberia, which was disabled by the virus, and crashed on Coromodir, provoking a small ice age.