MW5 Pre-Order is Upon Us.

[Luciora]

You can assign primary, secondary, tertiary groupings.  That's all I remember, having stopped playing MWO a long time ago. 

How do weapon groupings work in MWO?  I'm hoping MW5 has something really close to MW4:mercs. I especially liked how it let me automatically cycle my weapons for the primary grouping instead of firing them all every time I pulled the trigger.

[Sartris]

firing groups have been a feature since MW2, no?

[PyreLight]

The problem is that Epic Games has an extremely bad reputation for customers.

How is that going to affect the game itself or the points I made? It'll come out on Steam or GOG next year anyway.

[HobbesHurlbut]

https://youtu.be/2oe9BW_Z5TE?t=246

So from the 10th of April we go from "At this time there are no plans to go Epic exclusive, all keys are still steam keys, and GoG is now an option as they've done GoG Galaxy integration and have been talking to GoG for a very long time" To somewhere within the next 3 weeks after he said that in that AMA(up to the 30th of April as Russ said they signed the deal "end of April" during last nights AMA), into a signed deal with Epic. None of us were informed of the decision until yesterday. Russ claimed they couldn't give steam keys because of steam's policy, then why not give us GoG keys instead?

[Wrangler]

How is that going to affect the game itself or the points I made? It'll come out on Steam or GOG next year anyway.

More the cash / funding hit their going take due to getting exclusive with Epic.  Strong possibility of less paying customers getting the game. It could hurt PGI.

[HobbesHurlbut]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAXwS_9UIAobY3z?format=jpg&name=large

[Luciora]

They did say they are giving refunds to those who request it as well.  I feel it's an extremely bad faith gesture to break it off to begin with.  There is a deadline for the refund request however.  I'm going to be among those to wait the year and see what'll happen with the game in the meantime.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAXwS_9UIAobY3z?format=jpg&name=large

[NeonKnight]

So from the 10th of April we go from "At this time there are no plans to go Epic exclusive, all keys are still steam keys, and GoG is now an option as they've done GoG Galaxy integration and have been talking to GoG for a very long time" To somewhere within the next 3 weeks after he said that in that AMA(up to the 30th of April as Russ said they signed the deal "end of April" during last nights AMA), into a signed deal with Epic. None of us were informed of the decision until yesterday. Russ claimed they couldn't give steam keys because of steam's policy, then why not give us GoG keys instead?

Don;t see any of this being different from...say a Wedding, where 2 people pledge in front of family and friends to "love-honor-and cherish til death do you part" to getting divorced a few months-years later.

Answer - because sometimes Crap happens - Things Change. April - No plans for Epic, Then, obviously things changed. Now we are Epic Exclusive. Maybe STEAM wanted Too much, Maybe Epic offered a lot more. who knows. Just like the Couple getting divorced, it's happening, and ultimately it is none of our (the consumer's) business or need to know.

You are buying a product. You are not a Shareholder in PGI. You have no Skin-in-the-Game.

Did the sell to you on a promise to be on STEAM? YES

Are they Going to be on STEAM now? NO

Did they break the contract you entered into with them? YES

Are they making you whole by letting you out? YES

In fact in a lot of people's cases, they are being left in a BETTER position as they have mech Packs, MC and other consumer goods they are allowing you to keep.

The point is, The Business landscape changed, and it changed in a way the benfited the Company (PGI), so they took advantage, and they are allowing people where able to back out.

[Empyrus]

How do weapon groupings work in MWO?  I'm hoping MW5 has something really close to MW4:mercs. I especially liked how it let me automatically cycle my weapons for the primary grouping instead of firing them all every time I pulled the trigger.

Extremely well. For all my issues with MWO, they nailed the basic gameplay superbly.

I think max was six groups, you can add and remove weapons on the fly with arrow keys and... shift? Whatever, configurable keys. That on the fly weapon group configurability was great if you had forgotten to setup groups beforehand, or you figured out a better grouping.
And you can set group to fire all weapons at once, or all weapons sequentially, again this can be changed during gameplay. The game saved all changes always, so no need to redo settings every match.

I typically ran with 3 to 5 weapon groups, depending on the 'Mech and armament, bound to Mouse 1, Mouse 2, Mouse 4 (under thumb), E, and Shift+E.
Mouse 1/Group 1 was usually basic weapons, like medium lasers. M2/G2 was heavy hitters. M4/G3 usually had rapid-fire weapons or a sequential version of group 1. E/G4 i usually reserved for missiles, while Shitf+E/G5 was usually alternate missile pattern (eg half launchers only).

[DarkSpade]

Does it have cycling though? 

For example, in MW4 if my mech had 3 large lasers, I'd have them all in group one.  When ever I fired group 1 it would only fire one.  If I held down the button it would fire all three, but instead of all at once they'd fire one after another.   Not sure why it only ever worked with group one, but I loved how it worked.

[PyreLight]

More the cash / funding hit their going take due to getting exclusive with Epic.  Strong possibility of less paying customers getting the game. It could hurt PGI.

they just got a truckload of money from epic and the game will eventually make it to Steam and GOG.

I think people are over-estimating how important this is for the general consumer.

[pheonixstorm]

The problem is if enough people cancel their preorder or worse don't buy the game until a steam release PGI could be in a far worse position and lose more money from this stupidity on their part than they received from EPIC.

If anyone wants better info on EGL go watch some of the videos by SidAlpha. Especially anything that mentions what features they are focusing on. Big hint, don't expect anything consumer friendly.

Hopefully by the time it does get to steam it will be discounted and no longer full price.

[YingJanshi]

I can't blame PGI, you got to do what you got to do. (Though as phoenixstorm said, I'll be curious to see if the cash injection they got from Epic will offset the number of customers they've lost, at least during the initial year.)

As for the Epic launcher itself...I just don't see the point in throwing around cash to grab exclusivity deals rather than using that money to improve the many valid complaints people have over it (most important to me is their atrocious security).

[IAMCLANWOLF]

You have no Skin-in-the-Game."

Sure I do. I get to vote with my hard-fought cash... ;)
Inconsequential as that may be.
PGI can change the rules all they like.
Your divorce analogy works well enough, I suppose...
I am happy to divorce myself from this companies proven track record.
Painful, to the core, no doubt. I truly love me some mechwarrior.
I don't have to put up with this idiocy anymore, however.

[NeonKnight]

Sure I do. I get to vote with my hard-fought cash... ;)
Inconsequential as that may be.
PGI can change the rules all they like.
Your divorce analogy works well enough, I suppose...
I am happy to divorce myself from this companies proven track record.
Painful, to the core, no doubt. I truly love me some mechwarrior.
I don't have to put up with this idiocy anymore, however.

By Skin in the game, I mean you are not a true party to why the Company did or did not do X.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_in_the_game_(phrase)

To have "skin in the game" is to have incurred risk (monetary or otherwise) by being involved in achieving a goal. In the phrase, "skin" is a synecdoche for the person involved, and "game" is the metaphor for actions on the field of play under discussion.

In this case, you have incurred no risk at all, and have role in acheiving the goal of a successful game.

No different from any other consumer. Coke changes (without telling the general public) from using Cane Sugar to Corn Syrup. They don;t owe you and explanation.

Or let's put it a different spin, you Pre-Ordered a Bedroom suite for your house. Paid your up-front costs, etc. Your told it'll take 2 months to get in. No worries, you can wait (doing a renovation, whatever). 2 months before you are expecting the Bedroom suite you are informed by Said company that even though it would never use Blue Spruce in the construction, you are informed due to a shortage of White Pine that Blue spruce will now be used in the construction. HECK NO! You Scream, My father was hurt when a Blue Spruce fell on him years ago! The company explains OK, You Can cancel your order, and in a year when the White Pine is available we can make it then.

In neither case, the Coke or the Furniture, does the company owe you an explanation. Simply an announcement that for whatever reason they have gone to X instead of Y. You are entitled to be mad of the switch (and you will note I have never said otherwise), all I have ever said is PGI owes nobody (except their shareholders) an explanation as to why they did X over Y. All the owe you is the option to make an informed consumer decision.

[Empyrus]

Does it have cycling though? 

For example, in MW4 if my mech had 3 large lasers, I'd have them all in group one.  When ever I fired group 1 it would only fire one.  If I held down the button it would fire all three, but instead of all at once they'd fire one after another.   Not sure why it only ever worked with group one, but I loved how it worked.

The sequential one does that. Default key for switching between cycling and group fire in selected group is backspace i think. There is no setting to fire only one weapon in a group though.

IIRC, MW4 had a key for switching between "fire all weapons in a group", "fire one weapon in a group" "cycle through all weapons", though not 100% sure about the last one, i use grouped weapons only in MW4.
It really doesn't help that the game had some weirdness going with the controls. I think there were keys for "fire selected group", "fire selected weapon", and fire "group #" (and that one mode key modified how one of these functioned). But to further mess with this, some options didn't always work or couldn't be bound to mouse or keyboard, not sure if it was due to the mouse or a driver issue or something else.

[Talen5000]

Saw this online and  thought it recapped things short and sweet:

It is easy to see why the devs are doing this.

But...that doesn't alter that they are effectively changing terms of a deal, costing them in terms of trust and Epic has a less than savoury reputation

I'll buy it when it comes to GoG. I can wait a year.

[NeonKnight]

And you are right, they DID change the terms of the Deal, but at the same time, they are also allowing folks to back out of said deal.

They've announced where necessary the deal has changed, and have given a reasonable time to cancel orders. I also have no issue with people being mad about the changes, but PGI does not owe anyone an explanation for why they've changed what the originally offered.

[Talen5000]

And you are right, they DID change the terms of the Deal, but at the same time, they are also allowing folks to back out of said deal.

And I'm not blaming them for it.

But the core reality is that I don't trust Epic and I don't want their launcher so I am not going to buy ANY Epic exclusive games.

I may be irrational, but I'm not going to apologise.

I'll buy MW5 on GoG in a year.

[PyreLight]

The problem is if enough people cancel their preorder or worse don't buy the game until a steam release PGI could be in a far worse position and lose more money from this stupidity on their part than they received from EPIC.

If anyone wants better info on EGL go watch some of the videos by SidAlpha. Especially anything that mentions what features they are focusing on. Big hint, don't expect anything consumer friendly.

Hopefully by the time it does get to steam it will be discounted and no longer full price.

so far only 1200 out of 20000 have requested a refund. And that doesn't even compare to the amount of potential customers they get with EGS visibility.

It'll come out on steam anyway a year from now. People forget, especially if it's a good game.

[pheonixstorm]

People may forget, but many more won't go near the dumpster fire that is EGS. Plus, many other people will forget MW5 entirely do to this. No because they don't want the game, but simply because a year is a long time not wait around for something already released when the next new shiny is constantly being released every week.

[Wrayth]

Welp.  I was looking forward to picking MW5 up when it came out.  Guess that's not happening.  Exclusivity and EG can bite me.

Funny thing is, I don't know if this game will even be on my radar anymore when it hits GoG (and Steam) a year from release.  "What, MW5 is now available on GoG?  Meh.  I'm having too much fun playing games X and Y to bother with it."

[HobbesHurlbut]

so far only 1200 out of 20000 have requested a refund. And that doesn't even compare to the amount of potential customers they get with EGS visibility.

It'll come out on steam anyway a year from now. People forget, especially if it's a good game.

a year and FIVE months. The exclusivity is MW5 stay on Epic one year *after* it launch.

[HobbesHurlbut]

They did say they are giving refunds to those who request it as well.  I feel it's an extremely bad faith gesture to break it off to begin with.  There is a deadline for the refund request however.  I'm going to be among those to wait the year and see what'll happen with the game in the meantime.

They said they think they might get steam keys but their current stance is if you want steam or something else, get a refund on your preorder.

[Caedis Animus]

I feel like this is a rehashing of the lesson of 'Never preorder ANYTHING' that people are just oh-so-stubbornly refusing to learn.

Seriously, this is a lesson that was preached around No Man's Sky. C'mon.

[Orin J.]

But (and I could be wrong here) you don;t pay for EPIC GAMES, you pay for the actual game, so does it matter how you access it?

i haven't gone over EGS's lisance entirely but, with most online gaming hubs/DRM systems you aren't paying for the game, you're pay for the limited right to use "their" game via their sytem. so it matters in that you have to ask yourself if you trust this comany to consider your interests as the player of the game when they have contract renewal discussions or legal concerns.

[NeonKnight]

i haven't gone over EGS's lisance entirely but, with most online gaming hubs/DRM systems you aren't paying for the game, you're pay for the limited right to use "their" game via their sytem. so it matters in that you have to ask yourself if you trust this comany to consider your interests as the player of the game when they have contract renewal discussions or legal concerns.

And if STEAM decides to not a game in the future, how is that any different?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, as STEAM is not the Silver-clad, Gold Gilded Champion of Online Gaming people are making them out to be.

[DarkSpade]

And if STEAM decides to not a game in the future, how is that any different?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, as STEAM is not the Silver-clad, Gold Gilded Champion of Online Gaming people are making them out to be.

True, but they're also well established at this point.  We know what to expect from them at this point.  Epic on the other hand is still an unknown in this and has already left a sour taste.

Really though, anyone who doesn't care is going to continue to not care while anyone bothered by it will either hold a life long resentment, or check it out later when they've improved/proven themselves.  Same thing Steam with through really, but Epic doesn't have the advantage of being the only option like steam did for it's first several years.

[YingJanshi]

And if STEAM decides to not a game in the future, how is that any different?

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, as STEAM is not the Silver-clad, Gold Gilded Champion of Online Gaming people are making them out to be.

They are not, certainly have their own problems. And competition would a good thing. While they may not get to be a very big competitor, I think GoG is a very valid one.

The problem with EGS is that they have several very substational issues to make people wary of using their store (a lack of features compared to Steam, non-existent customer support, and rather alarmingly shoddy security) and instead of spending money on fixing these issues, they would rather spend money on exclusivity deals. That's a direction I would rather not see the market go.

[Reldn]

From their FAQ:

"Q: For how long will MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries be an Epic Games store exclusive?

 A: MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries will be exclusive to the Epic Games store for a year."

https://mw5mercs.com/faq#question-2-1

Thanks for that bit of info. Looks like I'll be checking it out once it's year of exclusivity with Epic is up and it hits the other platforms.