Clan Superheavy Mech

[JASON9]

I ready somewhere there is a three sided battle on planet Yorri. one of the side was a mercenary unit working for Clan Sea Fox to capture an Ares Superheavy mech so that the Clan Sea Fox could replicate it.
Did Clan Sea Fox manage to capture one or the Clan will never have a Superheavy mech?

[Natasha Kerensky]

Dunno about the Foxes.  But the planet that built the Ares and Poseidon, Devil’s Rock, is part of the Wolf Empire.  So unless the authors decide to completely blow up the Rhodes Foundry factories on Devil’s Rock before the Wolves get to them, presumably the Wolves inherit the production lines in one form or another.  The Wolf Tactical Response Cluster also defeated a large force of superheavies in the Caucasus during the Terra campaign, and presumably have salvage from that.

That said, the Wolves looked down on the superheavies from their encounter in the Caucasus, and the three-person crew that the tripods required don’t work well with most Clan martial philosophy (Horses excepted).  So even if the Wolves get everything they need to recreate the superheavy tripods — intact salvage, blueprints, and production lines — they probably won’t.

If it survived the Jihad and ensuing decades, the Wolves might also inherit Skobel Mechworks’ Omega superheavy production line on Terra.  As a biped requiring a single pilot, the Omega is more in keeping with Clan martial philosophy.  But the Wolves may still hold disdain for any superheavy after the Caucasus battle.

Even if they’re not interested, maybe the the Wolves will give the Foxes access to whatever superheavy isorla they have on Terra and Devil’s Rock to pay off their debts and maybe the Foxes will turn it into something else for sale elsewhere.  Maybe...

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

There was a diorama where ilClan Star League operated superheavy tripod against Capelans

And MUL says that superheavies are in service with Wolves and Jaguars

[Church14]

Also, in HotW, at least one ares was repaired and fought in the ilclan trial.


Doctrinally, ares doesn’t jive much with wolves, and the three crew demand is a lot for them at the moment. Buuuuuuut, whatever the RotS successor is will likely field them, along with FWL making them, and FedSuns having a few that were gifts

[Gaiiten]

The Superheavies are ideal for the new SLDF, for Freeborn warriors (ex members of the RAF or newly recruited from Terra).

[Stormlion1]

Tripods would be the perfect garrison design for Solhama warriors. Three Solhama to a mech? Bingo! But transport and maintenance will keep Superheavies out of most Frontline deployments I would think.

[Church14]

Tripods would be the perfect garrison design for Solhama warriors. Three Solhama to a mech? Bingo! But transport and maintenance will keep Superheavies out of most Frontline deployments I would think.

Terran wolves don’t have any solamha warriors anymore. Or shouldn’t. Every single wolf warrior on Terra is now one of the most accomplished in clan wolf’s history. That, and there just aren’t enough of them to stack three to a mech. I’m also basing this off the expectation that wolves will have plenty of RAF mechs to make up the gaps in their clan machines.

If Hell’s Horses had the Ares, I’d think they’d shove them (or an ares IIC) right into the horde clusters.

[Starfury]

Sea Fox, Smoke Jaguar and Clan Wolf all have access to Superheavies in the MUL So do the Federated Suns and the Free Worlds Leauge.  Sea Fox can buy the design rights from Clan Wolf or the Free Worlds Leauge. The 3 man crew isn't really an issue given the influx of vehicles into Clan Clusters and the new focus on Clan "togetherness".  I can see the Wolves and Sea Fox using them to reinforce garrison or in defensive roles as their slow speed doesn't match the standard fast attack mentality the Wolves like (though they do love building 100 ton mechs. Kerensky's influence never ceases to stop.) As for the Jags, they'd use them as they always did under the Fidelis: Anvil against a fast and sneaky combined arms hammer.

[Nerroth]

As it happens, there is a picture of an Ares in Clan Sea Fox colours on the 3rd printing cover of Interstellar Operations: Alternate Eras...

-----

Actually, I wonder if the Scorpion Empire would consider the use of such units.

On the one hand, it's not entirely implausible for the data files that were claimed as isorla during the "Sea Fox Two-Step" outlined in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik to have included blueprints of one or more Ares configurations. Or, perhaps, for a Seeker operating elsewhere in the Inner Sphere to later send such data back to the Empire proper, via the HPG relay currently being run over to their new enclave in the Chaine Cluster.

But on the other hand, there'd be the question as to whether or not the benefits of their potential use in the Scorpion touman would warrant diverting the logistical assets required to build and operate them from production runs of other potential new unit types.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

I could definitely see Scorpions building Ares superheavy for their Garrison Caste units

It's very good defensive unit and Garrison PGCs operate massive amount of vehicles (plus some mechs) which would be perfect for protecting flanks of those beasts

Plus they are pretty straightforward to build, only fancy component is endo-composite chassis and Scorpions are already producing those as seen on Awesome-C

Three men crew also fits well with Garrison Caste doctrine, regular grunts would love the colossal upgrade and all those solahama geezers who didn't get assigned to mechs after transfer would jump at a chance to ride something with legs again even as part of the crew

[CJC070]

They may not be common but I could see the Houses and Clans fielding Superheavies.  Not so much with the mercenaries but they are more defensive oriented weapon.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Yeah

Final boss fight before reaching the objective, we need to proliferate these

[truetanker]

Are the Scorpions forbidden to resurrect any of the Blakist and Society tech?

A mesh of the two does wonders. (I have a cell faction in my AU)

TT

[Church14]

Are the Scorpions forbidden to resurrect any of the Blakist and Society tech?

A mesh of the two does wonders. (I have a cell faction in my AU)

TT

They make the star python and Star Crusader. So… unsure now

[truetanker]

Nova CEWS, C3i, iATMs and Variable Pulse Lasers...

I've built a few Un Choirs before... using SH omni mechs...

So, yeah.

TT

[Metallgewitter]

Weren't the Super Heavies not also produced on Mars? The TRO 3145 stated that the Republic was building new facilities for them on Mars as Devil's Rock lay right in the path of the Wolves (they were expected to come online in 3150). Also: considering that Devil's rock probably has no garrison at the moment that planet might fall to the Capellans (including it's entire Rhodes workshop) or the Mariks. Though the Mariks got their first SuperHeavies (including the schematics) from Wolf's Dragoons as a gift

[Stormlion1]

Are the Scorpions forbidden to resurrect any of the Blakist and Society tech?

A mesh of the two does wonders. (I have a cell faction in my AU)

TT

Who would forbid them? The Homeworlds? The Inner Sphere Clans? They are on there own and I would think everything is on the table.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Who would forbid them? The Homeworlds? The Inner Sphere Clans? They are on there own and I would think everything is on the table.

True, they are out there on their own and can do whatever they want

And they believe don't need to apologize for anything, in the case of both groups they were the first to get into a shootout with them

But they seem to favor Blakists over Society tech and it makes sense, while there are Society missile system or electronics here or there that they might like the rest of Society tech doesn't really fit well with Scorpion doctrine

Society was also protomech heavy and Scorpions retired them soon after exile

On the other hand they have hands on experience with Blakist hardware, they used Jackrabbits, Nexuses, Toyamas and Grand Crusaders

Celestials of course are seen as as dezgra due to both reputation and icky methods of operation

Speaking of icky Society hardware takes it to the next level, just remember stuff like feralize

[tassa_kay]

If Hell’s Horses had the Ares, I’d think they’d shove them (or an ares IIC) right into the horde clusters.

The Horses are the ideal Clan to get their hands on the Ares, honestly. Not only are they inclined to work together as a team already, but the new Doom Courser is already giving them a leg up on the kind of tactics the Ares requires.

[Wrangler]

Something in the Clan's doctrine would need change or modified to allow for Superheavy.   Let's face it, especially a Tripod, they require team of crew those things.

Some cases the MechWarrior (pilot) is not the gunner.  Gunner is not piloting it.  Tripods if it's super heavy require a Engineer/commander whom won't be involved doing piloting or shooting.  Though both positions can be covered by the other crew members, but not as well.

Hell's Horses would be the most ideal Clan to want to use these since they use QuadVees, which are very distant relative in way of how their cockpits run.  It's change ideology.

Personal glory is bedrock of how Clan Warriors operate.   As long that's the fundamental way they think, unless a Superheavy can be manned by single warrior, it not going work.  As for fluff reasons, Superheavies are too complicated to pilot alone (Except for the Omega for some weird reason, Vehicular Direct Neural Interface (may or maybe not) required, but Republic fielded them which means the VDNI wasn't being used. 

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

Something in the Clan's doctrine would need change or modified to allow for Superheavy.   Let's face it, especially a Tripod, they require team of crew those things....

Not really, just get some pre-solahama dudes and tell them they can get to stay in the frontline units several more years if they agree to be a tripod crew

Or give a tank crew a quick course in tripod operation, it would be unbelievable promotion up for them

Plus I already mentioned Garrison Caste out in the Scorpion Empire, crew is their whole doctrine

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I think the real thing that would hold superheavies back in Clan forces is their lack of mobility on both the tactical and strategic level.  They're very difficult to use on offensive operations since they have to be transported as cargo and very few Clanners are going to be happy about a defensive mech that's so slow it's forced to wait for enemies to come to it: pretty hard to win glory and honor doing that.

[Liam's Ghost]

I feel like if superheavies managed to take off with the clans they'd be able to figure out superheavy mech cubicles pretty quickly to solve the transport issue.

Of course that still depends on the superheavies taking off in the first place.

[Metallgewitter]

Another idea: the Clans decide to take the ideas from the RAF superheavies but go back to classical bipedal Superheavies which might be more akin to Clan doctrine. I mean take the Omega but then swap the weapons for clan specs and you can squeeze a bit more into the Mech. Like a rebirth of Gauszilla

[Alan Grant]

An alternative to the Clan vehicle comparison could be something akin to the connection between aerospace pilots and naval duty in most Clans. The Clan navies are run by aerospace pilots warriors generally. At least some of whom retain rights to a fighter cockpit. So their day-to-day duties involve serving as an officer on a dropship/jumpship/warship. But they retain rights to a fighter cockpit. So for matters of personal honor, like earning a bloodname or fighting a 1-versus-1 Trial against another warrior, they go find a fighter and fight it out that way.

We have canon examples. Like the Cloud Cobras had Star Admiral Hollyann Kardaan. Youngest Admiral they had ever had, and FM: WC talked about her preferred tactics both in a Turk OmniFighter as well as from the bridge of a cruiser. The navy was her assignment and chosen career path, but she started as a pilot and kept up her flying skills.

You could think of a Superheavy the same way. Their day-to-day assignment is a multi-person crewed machine. But they retain the rights of a mechwarrior and can go hop in a Summoner (or whatever) to fight individual duels as the need arises. They can go earn a Bloodname, or fight in other types of 1-v-1 Trials.

I can see the Clan vehicle branch comparison/analogy being applied as well. Honestly, I could see both approaches applied. It could vary by Clan, displaying the attitude toward superheavies of each Clan.

Taking that navy-analogy tact with it, you can start to see how superheavies could become a viable branch of the touman. Even a branch worthy of being considered a front-line assignment and not just garrison quality. That's assuming, as others have mentioned, they resolve the problems of strategic mobility and the like so that combat deployments alongside front-line forces are more plausible.

[Metallgewitter]

An interesting idea but doesn't the tripod need specialized Crew members? You have a pilot (the classic Mechwarrior) but then you also have a tech and I think a gunner as well? This is more akin to tank crews then "pure" Mechwarriors. I would say (from a Clanner's perspective) that this might be a waste of ressources to train those crews not only in their main duty but also give them Mech Training and more importantly allow each of them to keep Training on Standard Mechs while also Performing Training and other duties on superheavies. The Pilot is one Thing as he or she can probably adapt faster but if you only do gunning or Monitoring you might have more Problem adapting back. Unless of course those roles will be filled by pure "lower castes"

[Church14]

Culturally:
Superheavy tripods would require a cultural change to how clan mechwarriors operate. At least in the clans that have the ares. In the sphere, only the Horses really do the teamwork thing for mechs, and they don't have any superheavies yet.

Could they move up tankers? Sure. After the six months or so to get any tanker capable of piloting a mech, you could do that. That said, I don't think wolves have that many tankers left. They only kept mechjocks in the field constantly by cycling out damaged mechs for reserve ones. There's no lore saying they did that for the tankers, and tanks tend to be less repairable and harder on crews when they die.

Could they use tanker gunners, a mechjock pilot, and a tank crew as the technical officer? Sure. But that means a mechjock is following the lead of a tank commander.

So can the Wolves use a superheavy? Yes. But every answer beyond "the couple RAF superheavy crews that stayed abtakha keep running one" requires a cultural shift.


Pragmatically:
The number one limitation to Clan Wolf right now is people. They don't have the luxury of looking at a lament, jackalope, and gallant, and then choosing a single ares instead. They need more mechs. The lowest crew requirement options are going to be the most appealing

Doctrinally
Until we get someone who can write better wolves than those presented in HotW, Alaric's Wolf default doctrine is "GO FASTER. SPEED LIFE." Sure, Wolves made the crucible. As something to cover supply trains. Not as a mech for offensive operations. Wolf doctrine has no use for a 2/3 chunkerbus.


Like said earlier: Hell's Horses horde clusters could absolutely use a superheavy tripod. But they have the correct culture, doctrine, and pool of available troops to crew them. Wolves have none of that.

[Church14]

An interesting idea but doesn't the tripod need specialized Crew members? You have a pilot (the classic Mechwarrior) but then you also have a tech and I think a gunner as well? This is more akin to tank crews then "pure" Mechwarriors. I would say (from a Clanner's perspective) that this might be a waste of ressources to train those crews not only in their main duty but also give them Mech Training and more importantly allow each of them to keep Training on Standard Mechs while also Performing Training and other duties on superheavies. The Pilot is one Thing as he or she can probably adapt faster but if you only do gunning or Monitoring you might have more Problem adapting back. Unless of course those roles will be filled by pure "lower castes"

Gunner, Pilot, Technical officer. Someone to shoot, someone to pilot, and someone to coordinate both the ares itself and forces around them

Gunner could take surviving vehicle gunners and fill that fairly fast
Pilot would need a mechjock
Technical officer's closest equivalent would be a tank commander.

[Wrangler]

Doctrinally
Until we get someone who can write better wolves than those presented in HotW, Alaric's Wolf default doctrine is "GO FASTER. SPEED LIFE." Sure, Wolves made the crucible. As something to cover supply trains. Not as a mech for offensive operations. Wolf doctrine has no use for a 2/3 chunkerbus.

Like said earlier: Hell's Horses horde clusters could absolutely use a superheavy tripod. But they have the correct culture, doctrine, and pool of available troops to crew them. Wolves have none of that.

Essentially that's what I concluded as well if we go by the how novels have been written what has been written so far about the Clans sourcebooks wise, but were not completely update now about that.

What it comes down to it is the superheavy are slow, tripods can eeek along bit faster due only paying for 1 turn facing, vs multiple turn facings. Thus you save limited movement speed being eaten up by turning. 

Hell's Horses do have the right kind possible training to create the crews/people to operate Superheavy that requires a crew 3 people.  However, Hell's Horses aren't your Dad's horses, they've gone from combined arms to FAST combined arms with preference move quick on an opponent and objectives with it's frontline forces.    Superheavies are NOT that.   Garrison Cluster for sure,  possible secondary roles as a defense, slow assault, breaking sieges maybe, big honking artillery piece, freeing up smaller assets and their possible omnipod spaces for more direct weapons attacks.   Certainly as a Command Unit to provide initiative bonuses for friendly units have jump on their opponents.   

All and all, Its hard to say if it work. Outsider of game in the real world, It's up to the BT developers if they can get money Superheavies and has the community's backing for it.   They side lined ProtoMechs, LAMs, Warships, etc because focus on just BattleMechs and with sprinkling of combat vehicles.

One thing Superheavy BattleMech do have is their BIG MECHS, everyone like big bots.  So maybe Solaris arena match machine with improve targeting for melee attacks than difficulties of swinging light mech size mace at someone negated.

[Istal_Devalis]

Vehicle crews and starship gunnery crews managed to figure out work arounds to the caste system. If the Clans REALLY want to use Superheavy tripods they'll figure out something.

Hell's horses was mentioned. Remember that QuadVees use a two-man cockpit, so there's already some precedent there.

[Church14]

If the Clans REALLY want to use Superheavy tripods they'll figure out something.

I agree. I just don't think there is the will to do so with the clans that have them. Why put so much effort in when there's massive tank and mech production on Terra already

My guess is the Ares will fade from Wolf units as the RAF abtakhas that pilot the ares are killed off or moved over the the Hegemony IIC.

There's a small chance that MUL's "Star League (Clan Wolf)" will see the ares removed once we get whatever the Hegemony IIC will be called in IKEO.

[tassa_kay]

Vehicle crews and starship gunnery crews managed to figure out work arounds to the caste system. If the Clans REALLY want to use Superheavy tripods they'll figure out something.

THANK YOU. People acting like these are just heretical to the Way of the Clans when we have multiple unit types that use multiple Clan warriors to operate seems a little silly to me.

[Metallgewitter]

If we look from another angle the Wolves might consider them useless as they were able to quickly beat them (like the Falcons considered Protomechs as useless because Etienne basically sabotaged the entire program with the Erinyes). So they might shuffle those units that survived to either Garrison units or maybe even give them to the Foxes to sell them to whomever. Right now I would wager they rather build more "simple" units then waste time to build more of those stumbling superheavies.

The Horses might have an idea how to use them but as others stated they have adopted the idea of mobile  combined-arms warfare (albeit also with heavy Mechs sprinkled within)

[Church14]

THANK YOU. People acting like these are just heretical to the Way of the Clans when we have multiple unit types that use multiple Clan warriors to operate seems a little silly to me.

Alaric’s Wolves were doing their best to move away from vehicles, relegating them to the garrison galaxies and only having any because they had no other way to keep numbers up with just mechs. They have been moving away from anything but Kerensky’s blessed mech, ASF, infantryBA.

I don’t think superheavies are anethema to clans in general. I think clan wolf in particular won’t like them.

I’d assume foxes could use ares if they want. I don’t really know Fox doctrine. Horses would love em. RasDom would probably use em in limited numbers.

[BrianDavion]

keep in mind the wolves doctrine favors MOBILITY, sure they have some big slow assaults, but if you look at their prefered mechs it tends to be faster designs. I imagine they look at big slow super heavies and generally don't see a lot of a point

[glitterboy2098]

i could see the Raven Alliance adopting them too. not the Ravens themselves, but the Outworlds half of their military. they tend to fill more of a defensive role in the pairing anyway, and IS forces should have little issue with training to work as a crew.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't think the OA techs would enjoy it too much, though.

[Stormlion1]

There is another option. Retrofit the design to only have a single controller. The early Posieden design when it was a prototype worked with a single Mechwarrior.

[Wrangler]

For fluff reasons the early Posieden was very difficult to use.

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

...
I don’t think superheavies are anethema to clans in general. I think clan wolf in particular won’t like them. ...

What does not liking something have to do with not using it?

If something has a use it will be used wether someone likes it or not

Scorpions openly dislike missiles

Scorpions also use missiles constantly

Same will be with Wolves and superheavies

If sending bunch of crew operated superheavies against the enemy will bring victory to Clan Wolf then Clan Wolf will send bunch of crew operated superheavies against the enemy

Simple as

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

LRMs and SRMs were ubiquitous weapons for mechs long before the Clans existed and offered well-understood options in terms of various specialty munitions.  Superheavy mechs are limited to two tripod designs that made it to production status and two bipods that never left the prototype phase and their battlefield utility vs traditional mechs is still in question.  It would be vastly easier for the Wolves to avoid using superheavies than it was for the Scorpions to avoid missiles.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alaric decided to dump any remaining Ares and Poseidon mechs they have on the nuJags or better yet, the Star League Falcons as a subtle insult.

[Church14]

What does not liking something have to do with not using it?

If something has a use it will be used wether someone likes it or not

Scorpions openly dislike missiles

Scorpions also use missiles constantly

Same will be with Wolves and superheavies

If sending bunch of crew operated superheavies against the enemy will bring victory to Clan Wolf then Clan Wolf will send bunch of crew operated superheavies against the enemy

Simple as

Like wasn't the right word.

Clan Wolf would have to go out of its way to use a crew-intensive mech when the one thing they should have an excess of is standard mechs. There's about a thousand clan mechjocks left, and there were something like 7000 mechs rendered inoperable on Terra. Between the few surviving wolf mechs, the rebuilt salvage, and Terran production, there's no pressure to assimilate the ares into their clan.

Wolf clusters would indeed need to go actively out of their way to develop a new doctrine around superheavies and there's no need to. Especially how far it would be from their standard doctrine of zoomies that's been plot armoring them to victory for the last 20 years. They can reassign the few ares crews that didn't quit to whatever general SLDF forces they create. Or dump them in one weird assault cluster that no trueborn wants assigned to. I expect wolves to evolve, but the ares feels like too much of a cultural/doctrinal jump for them to make in six months. If this convo is about wolves in 3155? Maybe they have a new ares doctrine.

Whereas Bears would have the people, and a doctrine involving slow, durable assaults that wouldn't need such a huge change to incorporate the ares. The Horses are embracing more mobile combined arms, but the Horde clusters are still a heavy/assault mech element and a fast vehicle group. Those could absorb an ares without pause.

[Metallgewitter]

The Horses on the other hand also have experience with Multi Crew vehicles. Their Quad-Vees have crews instead of singular pilots so for them a 3 men crewed superheavy might just be the next step in the Evolution. Of Course Fitting them into doctrine is another aspect. And I think that might be the main theme. The RAF had some years to develop a doctrince around them (mixed with stupid pills apparently because leaving those lumbering Titans without close support seems to be rather stupid esepcially when they actually supported them with Mech escorts during the year Long raiding campaigns)

[Church14]

…
The RAF had some years to develop a doctrince around them (mixed with stupid pills apparently because leaving those lumbering Titans without close support seems to be rather stupid esepcially when they actually supported them with Mech escorts during the year Long raiding campaigns)

Welcome back to things inexplicable in universe that we have to choke on from Hour of the Wolf, episode 137.

[Wrangler]

I get the vibe the author didn't really understand how the Superheavy Mechs are suppose to operate. 

To play devil's advocate for moment,  Then again who has chance play these units really? 

It does make logical sense to have body guard units, since its suppose to be firepower like Pocket Warship, aka fire support on large scale, with bodyguards covering the it's flanks.  It's not invincible as much early fluff seemly made sound like.

I think comes down to it, as far people whom write the stories. I don't know if they have time to play game to see how it works in game I suspect and still write about it.

[Church14]

I get the vibe the author didn't really understand how the Superheavy Mechs are suppose to operate.

Not just a vibe. I'll flat out say he didn't understand them, or willfully misrepresented them. Their presentation in novel does not jive with any other existing lore. He got their doctrine, strengths, weaknesses, and role of the technical officer wrong.

I think comes down to it, as far people whom write the stories. I don't know if they have time to play game to see how it works in game I suspect and still write about it.

If you're unwilling to research the topic, you are the wrong person to write for the topic. Full stop. No excuses

[Stormlion1]

The issue is that the Republic had to lose. So the Tripod design had to fail as a effective combat unit in Terras defense. But the Wolves did use them against the Falcons and so far as we know they still have ex-Republic troops fielding them in the short term.

Rather than the Wolves using the designs I would think they would push there use off onto the Foxes who will sell the designs into the various Inner Sphere powers.

[Metallgewitter]

Rather than the Wolves using the designs I would think they would push there use off onto the Foxes who will sell the designs into the various Inner Sphere powers.

In that case the Dragoons beat them to the punch considering they gifted their salvaged units including technical documentations to the League and the League seems to already be building them (or bought some from the Foxes). And the Federated Suns might also have begun to reverse engineer them from the few they got gifted from the Republic

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Like wasn't the right word.

Clan Wolf would have to go out of its way to use a crew-intensive mech when the one thing they should have an excess of is standard mechs. There's about a thousand clan mechjocks left, and there were something like 7000 mechs rendered inoperable on Terra. Between the few surviving wolf mechs, the rebuilt salvage, and Terran production, there's no pressure to assimilate the ares into their clan.

Wolf clusters would indeed need to go actively out of their way to develop a new doctrine around superheavies and there's no need to. Especially how far it would be from their standard doctrine of zoomies that's been plot armoring them to victory for the last 20 years. They can reassign the few ares crews that didn't quit to whatever general SLDF forces they create. Or dump them in one weird assault cluster that no trueborn wants assigned to. I expect wolves to evolve, but the ares feels like too much of a cultural/doctrinal jump for them to make in six months. If this convo is about wolves in 3155? Maybe they have a new ares doctrine.

Whereas Bears would have the people, and a doctrine involving slow, durable assaults that wouldn't need such a huge change to incorporate the ares. The Horses are embracing more mobile combined arms, but the Horde clusters are still a heavy/assault mech element and a fast vehicle group. Those could absorb an ares without pause.

How are you coming up with the bears having a doctrine involving slow heavy mechs that just churn forward?
The bears haven’t shifted from the Executioner since forever. The first slow Bear mech is the Mastodon, even the majority of our Standard mech variants are in the faster end. and the fluff says the Mastodon is having a hard time catching on cause it’s so different.

[Church14]

How are you coming up with the bears having a doctrine involving slow heavy mechs that just churn forward?
The bears haven’t shifted from the Executioner since forever. The first slow Bear mech is the Mastodon, even the majority of our Standard mech variants are in the faster end. and the fluff says the Mastodon is having a hard time catching on cause it’s so different.

Hm. Maybe I misunderstood bear doctrine.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Bear doctrine is kinda weird.  The Bears favor heavier mechs, but they also favor mechs that are unusually fast for their size.

[Metallgewitter]

Bear doctrine is kinda weird.  The Bears favor heavier mechs, but they also favor mechs that are unusually fast for their size.

Lyrans on steroids then? Though the Lyrans also seem to favor FAST Assault class Mechs

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No, the Lyrans generally favor mechs that are average speed for their size categories: compare the Bears and their love for the highly maneuverable Gladiator/Executioner omnimech whereas the Lyrans prefer slow-moving bricks like the Atlas and Thunder Hawk, while only rarely utilizing abnormally maneuverable machines like the Berserker.

[Metallgewitter]

No, the Lyrans generally favor mechs that are average speed for their size categories: compare the Bears and their love for the highly maneuverable Gladiator/Executioner omnimech whereas the Lyrans prefer slow-moving bricks like the Atlas and Thunder Hawk, while only rarely utilizing abnormally maneuverable machines like the Berserker.

But they were actually happy when Hesperus introduced a fast Atlas after the Jihad though I get your point

[Jellico]

A Dire Wolf (and for that matter a super heavy Mech) wins through weight of fire. It may stay at range or Wade into battle, but once committed its fate is binary. Victory or death.

An Executioner can retreat. It hits and fades and probes and denies its enemy a result. When the enemy missteps and a weakness is exposed the Executioner is fast enough to exploit the vulnerability.

This is Ghost Bear doctrine. A watchful, defensive stance until the schwerpunkt is revealed, then speed is used to exploit it.
The gigantism is a function of very long term Ghost Bear wealth. They have long been rich enough to build to their preferences. Bigger usually offers more capability.

All this suggests against super heavy Mechs because they will struggle to keep up in the field. Slower Mechs are run, but more commonly in second line units. Which I suppose does suggest an opening for a specially second line super heavy. But then again, given how much defensive operations are based around tactical DropShip hops that is still a problem.

[Stormlion1]

In that case the Dragoons beat them to the punch considering they gifted their salvaged units including technical documentations to the League and the League seems to already be building them (or bought some from the Foxes). And the Federated Suns might also have begun to reverse engineer them from the few they got gifted from the Republic

Not the first time multiple factories for a design have sprung up. But it's easier to buy a finished product than invest in the facility yourself.

[Metallgewitter]

Not the first time multiple factories for a design have sprung up. But it's easier to buy a finished product than invest in the facility yourself.

For the time yes. But when said merchants is chummy with the ones you are waging war against you might consider doing it yourself at one point. Of course it will probably take some time before said facilities are up and running. The FM 3145 spoke about the exposed state of Devil's Rock and that the production centers for the Superheavies on Mars would be ready by the end of the 3140's. The Lague might take a bit less as they have more ressources then the Republic at the end of it's life but it might still take a lot of time

[Church14]

For the time yes. But when said merchants is chummy with the ones you are waging war against you might consider doing it yourself at one point. Of course it will probably take some time before said facilities are up and running. The FM 3145 spoke about the exposed state of Devil's Rock and that the production centers for the Superheavies on Mars would be ready by the end of the 3140's. The Lague might take a bit less as they have more ressources then the Republic at the end of it's life but it might still take a lot of time

Free Worlds League turned around and get a factory up in somewhere around 6-9 months.

FedSuns should take longer, as they didn't get as comprehensive of a kickstart as FWL, but the Ares should be quite buildable. Or Some evolution of it.

Foxes sell Terran salvage because they will do anything for money.

Whoever ends up owning Devil's Rock makes some, or maybe RAF actually moved the factories? I'd have to see the wording.

I could see that being the extent of production.
- Wolves let RAF superheavy abtakha run ares, dump them in a select assault cluster or SLDF general forces.
- Hegemony IIC uses Martian production
- FWL builds their own
- FedSuns builds their own
- Anyone else wanting one buys from the Foxes (taking a portion of Mars' production?)

[Metallgewitter]

Free Worlds League turned around and get a factory up in somewhere around 6-9 months.

FedSuns should take longer, as they didn't get as comprehensive of a kickstart as FWL, but the Ares should be quite buildable. Or Some evolution of it.

Foxes sell Terran salvage because they will do anything for money.

Whoever ends up owning Devil's Rock makes some, or maybe RAF actually moved the factories? I'd have to see the wording.

I could see that being the extent of production.
- Wolves let RAF superheavy abtakha run ares, dump them in a select assault cluster or SLDF general forces.
- Hegemony IIC uses Martian production
- FWL builds their own
- FedSuns builds their own
- Anyone else wanting one buys from the Foxes (taking a portion of Mars' production?)

The Devil's Rock facilities were taken over by the Wolves. It seems somebody simply forgot to activate the selfdestruction system. Buuuuut who knows who actually occupies Devil's Rock at the moment. In theory it could be the Capellans if they pivoted some forces there.

I would suspect that, if there are really SuzperHeavy facilities on Mars that the Wolves might just give them to the Foxes as a way of payment. Like "you are seeling them then you can just build them yourself!" Of course the main question is if those facilities (if they were ever completed) are still there. The Falcons weren't exactly the most generous of occupants when they took over Mars

[Von Jankmon]

The only purpose for a superheavy mech in the clan arsenal is to mount a Long Tom or Sniper artillery piece.  No, not the artillery cannon, the full fat version.
Normally artillery is hard to add because of clan doctrines.  But a mech big enough to serve in battle and provide artillery support, wirth room enough for armour and some direct fire weaponry.

Practical?.  Not at all, but it carefully skirts the dogmas of clan field organisation which casually eschews anything that is not a front line combat mech in almost all circumstances.