"Ultralyte" mechs - Theorycrafting

[glitterboy2098]

so in the "literally never-seen" thread it was recently posted that in two of the recent Kell Hounds anthologies, a type of armed civilian grade mech refereed to as "Ultralytes" were used. designed to replicate the look of real battlemechs using cheaper and easier to repair materials, they were used for Galatea's home grown mech-arena battles, firing lower powered weapons at each other to create dramatic spectacles. in the 2nd book, the Kell Hounds draft a bunch of these mechs (with their weapons dialed back up to full power) into actual combat use to bolster their numbers while facing a planetary uprising that was using armed farming mechs. the Commando, Panther, and Javelin are the three types that these 'ultralytes' imitated. at least the ones that get mentioned. while i haven't read the novels yet (though i have copies thanks to the kickstarters), the idea got me thinking on how you'd represent them as playable units. the first thing i decided is that, since it got mentioned that Stackpole left the specifics vague, beyond saying that they used armor that was greatly inferior than that which normal mechs mounted. so i figure i have some leeway to interpreter things here.

first, i'm assuming they are built as industrial mechs. this limits the amount of brand new houserules required. second, i'm assuming that stackpole's description of the armor as being "20% as effective as real mech armor" isn't literal, and that they're actually using commercial armor. which has more armor points per ton, but only has a BAR rating of 5, so many weapons basically go right through it. the over all effect of low BAR armor should give a similar effect. and since these are usually used in arenas with downpowered weapons and simulator gear, the low BAR wouldn't really matter much. though it'll hurt them badly in a battlefield against real mechs. might work well enough against some farmingmech 'technicals' though. i also decided they use fusion engines. mostly because fuel cells and ICE were just far too heavy to fit them in without greatly increasing the mech's mass.

so the first one i did is the Commando. i did my best to replicate the normal one.. i had to reduce the engine size, reducing it to a 5/8, to make up for the heavier industrialmech construction. but in an arena, or even in the field against improvised militiamechs, this shouldn't be a big loss. it only mounts 2.5 tons of armor.. this gives it protection close to that of a real commando in terms of points per location (though i had to reduce the numbers a little.. i ended up leaving the aft armor dreadfully thin). and i fitted an ejection seat, mostly because i figure that since these are trying very hard to look like real mechs, they'd have included such a feature, for both safety and showmanship reasons. weapons wise though it is a match. and it actually has a bit more crit padding for the ammo than a real commando would, because of the smaller engine.

Code: [Select]

Ultralyte Commando

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Industrial Industrial Biped
Power Plant: 125 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Commercial
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 4
     1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3010
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-F-E
Cost: 1,552,667 C-bills

Type: Ultralyte
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 365

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Industrial              5
Engine                        125 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Commercial)     60                    2.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         6     
     Center Torso            8         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               6         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 4         6     
     R/L Leg                 6         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
SRM 6                    CT        2        4       3.0   
3 Heat Sink              RT        3        -       3.0   
SRM 4 Ammo (25)          RT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Laser             LA        1        3       1.0   
2 Heat Sink              LT        2        -       2.0   
SRM 6 Ammo (15)          LT        1        -       1.0   
Ejection Seat            HD        1        -       0.5   
SRM 4                    RA        1        3       2.0   


i'll tackle the javelin and the Panther tomorrow.. with feedback if anyone has any. also i'm taking suggestions for other common light mechs that were around in 3010 that the galatea arenas might have imitated.

[Daryk]

I think you're on the right track! :)

[glitterboy2098]

Javelin. basically the same approach.

Code: [Select]

Ultralyte Javelin

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Industrial Industrial Biped
Power Plant: 150 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Commercial
Armament:
     2 SRM 6
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3010
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-F-E
Cost: 1,838,573 C-bills

Type: Ultralyte
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 413

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Industrial              6
Engine                        150 Fusion            5.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Commercial)     60                    2.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         6     
     Center Torso            10        8     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               7         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         6     
     R/L Leg                 7         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       0.5   
2 Heat Sink              RT        2        -       2.0   
SRM 6                    RT        2        4       3.0   
SRM 6 Ammo (15)          RT        1        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sink              LT        2        -       2.0   
SRM 6                    LT        2        4       3.0   
SRM 6 Ammo (15)          LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0   
Ejection Seat            HD        1        -       0.5   



Panther: when not using downpowered guns, this one would probably be terrifying to see in an arena, since that PPC can basically strip all the armor off a location in one hit.

Code: [Select]

Ultralyte Panther

Mass: 35 tons
Chassis: Industrial Industrial Biped
Power Plant: 140 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Commercial
Armament:
     1 PPC
     1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3010
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-F-E
Cost: 1,852,520 C-bills

Type: Ultralyte
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 35
Battle Value: 496

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Industrial              7
Engine                        140 Fusion              5
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sink                     12                      2
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Commercial)     84                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            11        12   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               8         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 6         8     
     R/L Leg                 8         10   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
SRM 4                    CT        1        3       2.0   
3 Heat Sink              RT        3        -       3.0   
4 Heat Sink              LT        4        -       4.0   
SRM 4 Ammo (25)          LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0   
Ejection Seat            HD        1        -       0.5   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   




i figure that in the arenas, you could represent down powered weapons by having them do 1/2 damage.. so that PPC would do 5 damage, a medium laser 3 damage, and each SRM that hits one damage. this would make the BAR 5 of the commercial armor not a factor, and with the fairly low per-location armor point counts on light mechs wouldn't really hinder combat much. if anything it would extend the battles somewhat, allowing for more drama for the viewing audience. would also make melee attacks much more effective at taking down an enemy mech in the arena duels. which given those are flashy, would play well with audiences.

[Daryk]

Not bad, but a Fire Javelin would probably work better... ;)

[glitterboy2098]

Not bad, but a Fire Javelin would probably work better... ;)

sure but these are dueling mechs for the 31st century equivalent of pro wrestling. effectiveness isn't really the goal. and i'd imagine that missiles are more dramatic than lasers.

[Daryk]

Depends on the circumstances... I once had a modern Fire Javelin survive an LRM Carrier to the face (all three LRM-20s hit)... NO crits or removed limbs! :D

[Gorgon]

Not bad at all! I'm impressed how close the come in firepower and mobility to the real thing, the Panther especially. Well done!

[glitterboy2098]

Not bad at all! I'm impressed how close the come in firepower and mobility to the real thing, the Panther especially. Well done!

in many ways switching to an industrial mech with civilian armor is a bit like primitive mechs. with a slight speed reduction you can cover a lot of the extra mass from the heavier structure and systems. being able to use a third or less armor tonnage due to civilian armor giving 50% more points per ton helps too. in the panther's case it got a lot closer. since it's so slow (and thus lower tonnage engined) and i could just sacrifice SHS and a touch of armor.

i've been trying to think of more options.. the panther is an iconic kurita mech, the commando an iconic steiner one, the javelin an iconic (sorta) davion one. i've been trying to think of light mechs that would be iconic for Marik and Liao in 3010.

[Frabby]

Liao would be Wasp or Locust methinks, but regarding Marik I'm drawing a blank. Spider perhaps, though lore wise it’s too rare to be iconic.

[glitterboy2098]

spider tends to be more kurita in terms of iconic status. even though it is a FWL produced design. there is the Flea, but i'd prefer humanoid designs if possible, for the visuals. a box on legs isn't going to be as dramatic for arena fights.

[RifleMech]

I think the Locust is doable.

A)
2.5 tons of Commercial Armor gives nearly as much armor 60 points to the Locust's 64. and drop .5 tons of MG ammo.

B)
3 tons of Commercial Armor maxes out the armor with a few points extra. Drop .5 tons of ammo and switch the Medium Laser for an ER Small. ER Small laser would work as a powered down medium laser, just fit a larger barrel on it to make it look like a medium laser. The range would be shorter but nearly as far as a medium laser if extended range is used.



For the FWL how about the Mercury or Hermes?

[Daryk]

Yeah, the Hermes is quintessentially Marik! :)

[glitterboy2098]

Hermes works. took a touch of tweaking to make it work, since applying the same approach as the others left it with 3.5 tons of weapons not three. so i ended up giving it a vehicle flamer with a ton of ammo instead of the energy weapon flamer. because the risk of explosion for the flamer fuel would add some drama, plus no doubt it would look a lot 'cooler' for the audience. also adds an ammo conservation thing.

Code: [Select]

Ultralyte Hermes

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Industrial Industrial Biped
Power Plant: 240 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Commercial
Armament:
     2 Medium Laser
     1 Flamer (Vehicle)
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3010
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-E-F-E
Cost: 2,055,830 C-bills

Type: Ultralyte
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 400

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Industrial              6
Engine                        240 Fusion           11.5
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Commercial)     60                    2.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         7     
     Center Torso            10        8     
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               7         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         6     
     R/L Leg                 7         6     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                     CT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Laser                  CT        1        3       1.0   
Vehicle Flamer Ammo (20)      LA        1        -       1.0   
Flamer                        LA        1        3       0.5   
Ejection Seat                 HD        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser                  RA        1        3       1.0   




for the Liao's.. gotta be the urbanmech. which went a bit of a different way in order to keep it from being too effective. it's faster (by 50%) and instead of an AC10 i went with the Heavy Rifle, with 18 shots. still pretty heavily armored compared to the others though.

Code: [Select]

Ultralyte Urbanmech

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Industrial Industrial Biped
Power Plant: 90 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Commercial
Armament:
     1 Small Laser
     1 Rifle (Cannon, Heavy)
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3010
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-F-X-E
Cost: 1,053,231 C-bills

Type: Ultralyte
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 318

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Industrial              6
Engine                        90 Fusion               3
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Commercial)     84                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         8     
     Center Torso            10        11   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               7         8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         11   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                  LL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                   LL        1        -       0.5   
Heat Sink                  CT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                   CT        1        -       0.5   
4 Heat Sink                RT        4        -       4.0   
Heavy Rifle Ammo (18)      RT        3        -       3.0   
Small Laser                LA        1        1       0.5   
Heat Sink                  RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                   RL        1        -       0.5   
Ejection Seat              HD        1        -       0.5   
Rifle                      RA        3        4       8.0   




[Daryk]

The Urbie is supposed to be heavier armored than other lights, so that tracks... ;)

[glitterboy2098]

to be honest, i;m now questioning my choice of heavy rifle over the AC10.. they're doing similar damage (9 vs 10) and since their arena opponents are using commercial armor, their damage is going to be reduced. and having a round 10 damage would make my suggested "divide by half" a little easier, plus make them more useful when pressed into actual combat duty.
though i'd have to reduce the speed back to 2/3 to fit the heavier AC10.

[Daryk]

Which also tracks with what an Urbie is supposed to be, so no worries! :)

[RifleMech]

The armor on the Urbie feels too light. 4 tons of commercial armor gets 96 points, same as the BM but only BAR5. Swap the AC/10 for a LBX-10 and you've got the 3 tons for the Indy structure. Just have the LBX fire low powered standard rounds for 5 point hits. When in combat standard ammo.

If you want to keep the Ejection Seat, you could A) only have a half a ton ammo for the LBX, or B) swap the LBX for a HRC, a second ton of ammo, and a second heat sink for padding and cooling off the HRC. Then swap the Small Laser for a Small Pulse. The laser damage stays the same. It's just more accurate so it could be better for an audience.

The problem is the HRC. If you want the damage reduced to 5 points, round up. The problem is increasing the damage for regular combat as RCs have the -3 damage against BAR8+ Armors.  Or you could just ignore that rule and go with 9 points of damage.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm doing these based on the 3010 timeframe of the ones from a novel series, so no LBX AC's or pulse weapons. also you can't do half ton ammo for anything but MG's.

[Daryk]

Well, not without Fractional Accounting... ;)

[RifleMech]

Instead of the small pulse laser you could go with a MG and half a ton of ammo. It'd work better for the time period and as a "civilian" mech.