What caused the end of Mechwarrior DA/AoD?

[Toqtamish]

Save me some room.

Save me some room too. I think I am going to be dusting off my minis this month after school is over.

I first got in to Mechwarrior as a teenager playing Mechwarrior 2, got a few of the clan sourcebooks to read the fluff, then after I had moved and broke up with my wife I heard about the clix game coming out. I started to read a co-workers copies of all of the Battletech novels in anticipation of the game and read everyday the updates on the Comstar INN site that Wizkids had up. I was an avid player of the game and a battlemaster as soon as I could and ran the very first event where you could get Mason Dunne.

I really don't understand the hatred some people have for the game. Why waste your time and energy on it. If you don't like it then don't. No one says you have to. But that does not give you the right to bash those of us that do love the game and appreciate what it did for the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe.

[GhostCat]

Save me some room too. I think I am going to be dusting off my minis this month after school is over.
  ....

I really don't understand the hatred some people have for the game.

Battletech/Mechwarrior universe.

Me too, me too. 

I started collecting minis when they were still made from gray metal.  Just recently I found an old Ryoken modified to resemble a MadCat, and a Fenris with Vulture missile pods. 

Though it was never intended, I also ended up with whole armies of all the Dark Age factions.  A pile that finally is just too large to bother counting any more.

Whatever you want to call us, we're old school, with old style game pieces that earned the names 'Classic' and 'Unseen'.  And it's still Fun to play with.

GC

[worktroll]

worktroll, I have nothing but good to say of the people at WizKids that I interacted with. Jason Carl, Dave Chase, Kelly Bonilla, and so many others whose names I have forgotten it isn't even funny.

Me too. There's a lot I can't talk about, but WK had the right to be totally hardass on FanPro. Instead, they went out of their way to make it easy for FanPro to get things done. All they asked was that FanPro not contradict anything determined as canon. Things like the Invincible[/] returning in the Jihad was all Herb's work IIRC, and was OK'ed because it didn't contradict anything. They were also good on the financials - charged a lot less than they were entitled to, by my understanding. In a very real way, they helped keep BT alive.

And I have to thank them for the minis. I never played the game, but I'm still hoarding my drawer-fulls of 'Mechs, vehicles & BA, and love working with them.

W.

[pensiveswetness]

OK, you can dis me all you wish but from my POV and others at the time of MWDA's we had the same feelings that OTHER people had when 3.5 became 4.0: All that i invested into a game, for naught? That was the source of my grief, that sense of...


Betrail.

Now if you think I'm wrong because of that alone? I suppose it's one of those occurances where you had to be there, to understand then what i felt like...

[worktroll]

I was there too, and I scorned MW:DA at first. I thought the fiction painted a wholly unrealistic happy-group-hug "Republic of the Sphere", and found the idea all the militaries swapped their 'Mechs in for daisies was stupid. I also didn't like the game mechanic (having played Mage Knight with my son), and the collectible thing didn't appeal to me one bit.

But, then, BattleTech did not die. And I kept on being able to buy BT minis from the then-new IWM. And I could buy BT product from FanPro. And I could help out on the official BT forums - I wasn't ever a FASA minion. So my game never died. I ignored the "clicky folks".

And gradually realised that a lot of people liked and loved that game. I wasn't one. And I realised that the "happy happy" RoTS was in fact not happy-happy at all, but what I'd seen was propaganda from sugar-coated fascism (sorry guys!). And the militaries hadn't swapped their 'Mechs, but just hidden them, and the people with the agromechs were the fanatical supporters, not the regular militaries. Which made me much more interested, once I'd stopped running on predjudice and started actually taking a look. I never ended up playing the MW:DA game, but I was glad for all those who liked it that they were enjoying it. And I liked that I could use the pieces for my own purposes. And I liked that the BT game got new fans because of it.

PW, I'm sorry you feel you're being dissed. You're entitled to hold your opinions, and you're entitled not to like the game. But I'm allowed to have a different opinion. All I'd ask is that you respect the opinions of those who do like it, and not assert that your opinion is anything other than just that - an opinion. Just as my opinion is just that.

W.

[Labyr]

OK, you can dis me all you wish but from my POV and others at the time of MWDA's we had the same feelings that OTHER people had when 3.5 became 4.0: All that i invested into a game, for naught? That was the source of my grief, that sense of...


Betrail.

Now if you think I'm wrong because of that alone? I suppose it's one of those occurances where you had to be there, to understand then what i felt like...

It doesn't look like anyone here is dising you, we are disagreeing with you, which is a pretty big difference. As previously stated in this thread the period of time MWDA was around and Classic Battletech wasn't was only about a month, is that really a huge betrayal? Fanpro published a lot of good books for Battletech and ran a lot of great events like Monte Diablo and the Martial Olympiads, surely those aren't betrayals? Lastly, I still would like to know when gamers where more courteous and which niceties the MWDA generation lacked.

[pensiveswetness]

 O0 people still played. I know i made a Monte session (when the boat was in Town). and i still purchased stuff. Hell, im thankful the game has trucked on this far. like other fathers, getting your minion into the game is a very awesome feeling...

[worktroll]

like other fathers, getting your minion into the game is a very awesome feeling...

Very true; I almost got a tear in my eye when my youngest said "I don't want to play Ghost Bear 100-tonners any more, I want to try some of the purple 'Mechs" ...  O0

[Greywind]

OK, you can dis me all you wish but from my POV and others at the time of MWDA's we had the same feelings that OTHER people had when 3.5 became 4.0: All that i invested into a game, for naught? That was the source of my grief, that sense of...


Betrail.

Now if you think I'm wrong because of that alone? I suppose it's one of those occurances where you had to be there, to understand then what i felt like...

Why? 3.5 still plays. 1st and 2nd editions still play. I know a lot of people that didn't bother to migrate to 4.0. Personally, for my fantasy fix I always preferred SPI's DragonQuest.

In the midst of ClickyTech we still got together fairly frequently for our BattleTech campaign. Game only dies when you stop playing it.

[Deadborder]

With all that being said, was any material for Outlaws ever made public - pictures of prototypes, promotional material or the like? Or is it pure vapourware?

[GhostCat]

I think, at this point we can say that those who know for certain, are not going to tell what they know.  The rest of us can speculate as much as we please.

As a former Battlemaster, it's my opinion that the prize support and promo pieces during the last year was mostly intended to be part of that Outlaw set.  That said, they were never released as representing that set.

GC

[LordNth]

With all that being said, was any material for Outlaws ever made public - pictures of prototypes, promotional material or the like? Or is it pure vapourware?

Nothing was made public.
No one knows if the prize Mechs or the Action Packs were going to be Unique Outlaws Mechs or not.
I do know that many playtesting sets were out there being playtested. 
There was a thread about it somewhere around here.  But a quick search reveals nothing.  Maybe that thread was before the hack/crash a few years back?

[cavingjan]

With all that being said, was any material for Outlaws ever made public - pictures of prototypes, promotional material or the like? Or is it pure vapourware?

Most of the Battleforce minis were repurposed Outlaws minis. We did have a picture with an Archer but I don't remember if that surfaced as an Outlaws unit at the time or as a Solaris set.

[LordNth]

Archer was going to be in the Solaris Campaign set.

[DarkSpade]

With all that being said, was any material for Outlaws ever made public - pictures of prototypes, promotional material or the like? Or is it pure vapourware?

Ever see the Solaris sets?

No idea any more who all I heard it from, but I do remember hearing/reading from a few different sources that it was recycled into Solaris.


As for the archer, I know one of the last championship winners tried to talk wizkids into letting him have it as his pilot's mech.

[pensiveswetness]

Why? 3.5 still plays. 1st and 2nd editions still play. I know a lot of people that didn't bother to migrate to 4.0. Personally, for my fantasy fix I always preferred SPI's DragonQuest.

In the midst of ClickyTech we still got together fairly frequently for our BattleTech campaign. Game only dies when you stop playing it.

3.5 plays... in the form of Pathfinder  O0 Thought thats an arguement all to itself  ;D

[The Mighty ACHOO]

I had no problem with "ClickyTech". I never played it, but I had a lot of friends that did and had a lot of fun with it. I do have problems with those that "hate" the timeline. I remember when the Clan tech first came out. There were people that hated it. I remember when the material for the start of the WoB Jihad started to be revealed. There were people that hated that as well. I just played with it, and had fun with the game. That is what the game is all about. Having fun. Other than the fact that you could not specifically select your 'Mechs for MWDA I had, and have, no animosity for the Dark Ages timeline and game.

[Fallen_Raven]

I hope this question hasn't been asked before and I missed it but ultimately what caused the end of Mechwarrior Dark Age/AoD?

Like so many collectible games, it out lived its cycle. Magic:the Gathering remains popular and profitable by releasing new sets at certain intervals. So does Heroclix, and most any other collectible game. Unfortunately for fans of Mechwarrior Dark Age, they didn't quite time the interval between having enough players collecting the previous set to be competitive (can't let everybody have all the best toys) and releasing the next series of minis/characters. It is a problem that plagues most collectible games, and only a few survive long enough to develop a large player base to carry them through the low points.

[pattonsg1944]

It was a few things. 1 When they went from AOD to the set that where you could put thing on your mechs as well the faction cards and plants cards. In most tournament you could not use any of the mechs!!!!!!!!!! A lot people that had spent a lot of money on there set were very mad about that. That also brought the value of the older stuff down.2 One of the thing at Lear in mind was when started to make the rang longer with some mech. I know I went to a new group and all most never lost at that point. Lets not even take about TEMP, with 16" rang and that there was not a lot that could stop it. The last thing at the end before it died. they put too many new set out with new rules for things. That is my openyen as well as a lot of my friends. For what it is worth LOL .

[OpacusVenatori]

Why? 3.5 still plays. 1st and 2nd editions still play. I know a lot of people that didn't bother to migrate to 4.0. Personally, for my fantasy fix I always preferred SPI's DragonQuest.

In the midst of ClickyTech we still got together fairly frequently for our BattleTech campaign. Game only dies when you stop playing it.

 Indeed, but these are fames more based in your character sheet, and the optional set of rules, or quest, or magic items you want to apply to your game. And they still have new things comming out as PDF.
 MW AoD is a Miniatures games, so, in my opinion, this example does not apply-

[Greywind]

Indeed, but these are fames more based in your character sheet, and the optional set of rules, or quest, or magic items you want to apply to your game. And they still have new things comming out as PDF.
 MW AoD is a Miniatures games, so, in my opinion, this example does not apply-

And as long as you have those miniatures, you can continue to play, so I'm really not seeing your point.

[OpacusVenatori]

m sorry if I wasn't Clear enough, I'm still learning English. What I wanted to say was that MW: AoD is a game out of production. No more minis, no more options for play besides the minis that you managed to gather. You can still playing, of course. That's what we all still doing. But we cant wait for any new set of minis. So I have to keep playing with my 8 mechs, 8 vehicles, and 16 infantry units. While games as the older editions of D&D still have new books, once in while, bringing more options to the game table. Hope to be clear en enought, and thanks for your Patience.

[StCptMara]

In my opinion, what killed MW DA/AoD was, ultimately, many things.
First, there was their attitude that factions weren't important. When they would say "Buy the set because you like the game,
   not because your faction got good stuff in it."
Second, the end of set retirement. I knew some people near the end who were like "Why buy this set? I have all the stuff
   I need for my faction from here."
Third, the apparent LACK of communication with players. We had enjoyed alot of communication, including annual chats, and
   then all that stopped.
Fourth, the cancellation of Outlaws and the never seeing the faction packs that we were told were going to take its place.
   Frankly, I think that that MIGHT have saved the game, as most of what was fielded were combined arms forces, usually
   without 'Mechs. That all we got over that last year, aside from the Dragoons Gamma Galaxy pack, were Gunslinger 'mechs
   for Solaris? That hurt.

I think, though, it says alot about what was going on that Kelly was fired DAYS before GenCon. The company couldn't even
give her the dignity of running one last World's. Does anyone know if Kelly still wants ANYTHING to do with the universe? Or
if WKs treatment of her at the end has made her soured on everything to do with it?

[Greywind]

My last talk with Kelly was a couple of weeks before that, iirc. Used to have some fun chats with her through PM.

[Atlas3060]

Does anyone know if Kelly still wants ANYTHING to do with the universe? Or
if WKs treatment of her at the end has made her soured on everything to do with it?

Last I've seen of her linkedin, she was with Smith and Tinker for around 3 years before going free agent.
So there must have been some love left after Wizkids. I also agree she got shafted on the GenCon situation.  :-\

[worktroll]

Given Loren W left WizKids before Topps bought it, and Loren went on to form S&T, it's probably safe to assume Kelly had no issues with Loren.

WK was probably not the best fit for the Topps empire, and probably got the short end of the stick from the corporates. As I've mentioned, the original WK was quite a cool company to deal with, probably because everyone involved knew everyone from some point or another.

The transitions to the suit culture was probably .... suboptimal. Not that Topps tried to ruin WK - but I suspect they tried to manage what had been a labour of love, as if it were another business-as-usual exercise.

Fortunately Topps and CGL have a very well-defined business relationship, and Topps are very happy with CGL's end of things (as best as I can tell, anyway).

[Atlas3060]

Fortunately Topps and CGL have a very well-defined business relationship, and Topps are very happy with CGL's end of things (as best as I can tell, anyway).

"Hey CGL are you still making money?"
"Newest Sourcebook and XTRO just released and the fans threw money at us quickly."
"Very good, carry on!"

[worktroll]

"Hey CGL are you still making money?"
(Hands over latest royalty cheque] "Newest Sourcebook and XTRO just released and the fans threw money at us quickly."
"Very good, carry on!"

Small correction, but fundamentally correct. They don't have to understand CGL, they just have to trust them not to make dick moves (and they do). They had to try and understand the ex-WK staffers - that's probably where the issues started.

[Atlas3060]

They had to try and understand the ex-WK staffers - that's probably where the issues started

Which explains, in part, why we started seeing more familiar names show up in the novels and products.
It would make sense to bring in people that Topps is comfortable with.
That and if you already have a stable of writers familiar with the setting, why the heck not?  :)

[roosterboy]

Given Loren W left WizKids before Topps bought it, and Loren went on to form S&T, it's probably safe to assume Kelly had no issues with Loren.

Given Jordan W left WizKids before Topps bought it, and Jordan went on to form S&T, it's probably safe to assume Kelly had no issues with Jordan.