Jade Falcon Units

[NightGyr]

I have been playing Battletech for 20 years now, but very recently was pulled into MWDA/AoD by my father in law who decided on a whim to buy a bunch of figures off of E-bay. I had tried MW before, and was never impressed by it, but it is nice to have someone to play it with on a regular basis. I started picking up Clan Jade Falcon stuff off of e-bay, but I have not been able to find afull unit list. I think I am missing a couple of mechs and vehicles but I cannot tell. Does anyone have a list they could share?

[PeripheryPirate]

New forums mean new links to warrenborn! :)

Clan Jade Falcon on warrenborn

For all units, check out the entire Unit section.

[LordNth]

lol
we made it what?
5 new threads in the MWAOD section without linking Warrenborn?  A new record!!

[NightGyr]

Thanks for the response. I am amazed I googled MWDA or MWAoD without finding that site myself. Very Helpful btw. I was able to find the mechs and vehicles I was missinhg and pick up all of them but the Blade and Raptor II.  My CJF forces are almost complete!

[EdgeCrusher]

welcome to MWAoD
I've only been playing a couple months now :) i just recently picked up a CJF lot too. still hasn't arrived yet... I hope i get it soon. Until then Ill keep using my nova/spirit cats :)

[LordKnightFandragon]

CJF is just plain AWFUL now......Thier Thor and Raptor II are a prime example.  The Thor is all in all a decent Mech but its made useless by its Swordsworn style heat dials...why oh why did WK ever think that was a good idea to do that to JF..I used to somewhat like JF, if just cuz I though the Faction Name sounded cool, but after WK did what they did to them...I was like BLEH!!

[Mecha82]

CJF Loki is actually amazing non-unique.

[dethtungue]

CJF is just plain AWFUL now......Thier Thor and Raptor II are a prime example.  The Thor is all in all a decent Mech but its made useless by its Swordsworn style heat dials...why oh why did WK ever think that was a good idea to do that to JF..I used to somewhat like JF, if just cuz I though the Faction Name sounded cool, but after WK did what they did to them...I was like BLEH!!

You should look at them again.  They have positives and negatives like every faction.  CJF units generally offset their short heat dials with high vent ratings.  The raptor has A VENT OF 4!  Therefore, you can vent to start up immediately.  No Swordsworn mech can do that!  Other nice features:

• Both units have only a single click of salvage
• The raptor II gains Alpha Strike with improved targeting.  Do that to somebody and then restart the next turn.  Repeat.  One might get the impression that this was done intentionally by WK
• The raptor II can be repaired back to Alpha Strike and Improved Targeting
• Both start with 10 attack
• Both have good speed for their weight class

[ChrisSymons1981]

• The raptor II gains Alpha Strike with improved targeting.  Do that to somebody and then restart the next turn.  Repeat.  One might get the impression that this was done intentionally by WK

Shame the energy weapon only has an 8" range though.

[LordKnightFandragon]

You should look at them again.  They have positives and negatives like every faction.  CJF units generally offset their short heat dials with high vent ratings.  The raptor has A VENT OF 4!  Therefore, you can vent to start up immediately.  No Swordsworn mech can do that!  Other nice features:

• Both units have only a single click of salvage
• The raptor II gains Alpha Strike with improved targeting.  Do that to somebody and then restart the next turn.  Repeat.  One might get the impression that this was done intentionally by WK
• The raptor II can be repaired back to Alpha Strike and Improved Targeting
• Both start with 10 attack
• Both have good speed for their weight class

Im taking mainly the Vanguard and beyond pieces. The earlier set pieces were pretty decent.  Overall, maybe thier unit stats are pretty good but the main thing I look at when I determine if a unit is good or not, is if it has alteast 2 clicks of clear heat.  I know all to well what happens when a mech shuts down and a unit with 1 clear click of heat spends to much time venting. So the thing with the Falcons, namely the Thor, it has a bad, 1 click clear heat dial then it only has 3 clicks till shutdown. That alone makes it terrible in my book.  A mech with 1 click clear heat, even with 3 and 4 vent rating is still only 1 move then a vent, 1 move then a vent....other pieces its atleast 2 and a vent.  The 4 vent rating is all well and good, but if your in a position to actually need to vent for 4, your in a bad way already.  Then the Falcons have rediculously low defenses, 18-20 usually.....augmented by fairly easily avoided Evade bringing it to 20-22 for like 1 click.  Low Defense, matched with short range and bad heat dials....Sure they have decent damage...the Thor has 3 and 4 dmg, I think pulse on one, but that is another matter all in itself..I dont care much for pulse.  Or the Vulture has 4 PPC Cap for a potential of 6 dmg and extra heat.  Everything the Falcons do now seems to be based off the biggest danger to a mech...Heat....Raptor II...Alpha Strike? Better hope that thing hits, cuz if it doesnt kill the target you fired at...The target you fired at will kill you next turn.  +4 to atk value against you.....yeah, not a bet im willing to take, not at 8 range and now looking at the Raptor II for a possible 6 dmg? with 7IT? Not only will you most likely not hit, you wont do alot anyway.....talk about useless.  if I am going to risk my mech, I want some damage....6 is good but 6 wont kill any mech I know of in 1 hit. Then with 7 IT, it will probably miss anyway, making you a nice sitting duck for just about every gun in the opposing team's arsenal.  I wont convince anyone CJF is not that amazing and I wont be convinced they are nice.  I suppose there are people who can use them with some seblence of effectiveness but all in all I find them kinda poor.  They had some units I liked but when I saw the Vulture and Mad Cat had 20D and 19D with Evade....I was like ahh, to low...  If I buy a heavy..I want 21D base minimum and Assaults 22.   

The one good Falcon Mech is like the Mecha82 said, is the CJF Loki, that mech is like an image of the Falcon's former greatness.  It has decent Defense, good damage, low range but it has decent speed and it is pretty cheap =D  I had though of fielding it many times and did atleast one time.  The Vulture and Mad Cat...havent used them once...the 12 range and low defense turns me away everytime...anyway =D

[JadeHellbringer]

Another fun one to try is Trovic Nilloba. The very first JF unit is still one of their best, with a possible 9-click alpha strike. I like to use other Mechs to cover his approach as cover, then step him in front and deliver a massive salvo into the toughest Mech my enemy has- then step something in front of him again and let him cool down in peace. Very basic tactic, but why mess with success?

Shamash hovercraft are surprisingly useful little bastards as well- don't use them as tanks, though. Use them as cruise missiles- at just the right moment, streak out from behing blocking terrain and crash into an enemy Mech, preferably one that is shut down if you luck out with TSEMP or something fun like that. Seems like a waste of 50 points until you try it out- then it becomes hilarious.

The JF Clan Battle Armor may be the best infantry in the game. Really- there's good ones out there, but that ridiculous movement means the Falcons don't even need an APC usually. You can be in base contact and ruining someone's day before they even realize what happened. And a unit that has these little monsters grappling with it is ripe for other attacks, like Shamash charges for example.

And lest we forget the Thor. Yeah, on it's own it's not the best Thor out there (that honor probably belongs to the Wolf Hunter Thor, I admit). But with the right gear, it can turn into an absolute terror. And while the heat dial is a little unforgiving, the vent of four (like most Falcon Mechs) means that it's right back in the fight in moments. It's hard to take advantage of a Falcon force's heat problems since they get rid of the waste heat so fast.

There are duds as well in the Falcon army, same as anyone- the Zeus comes to mind, for example, as well as the Koshi and Long Tom (seriously? Our artillery has HOW long of a range?), but to sell the Falcons short as being Lokis and crap isn't fair to them.

And I'm not even going into Black Rose, the Falcon faction set, or any of those goodies. Mostly because I'm in a hurry to go use some Jade Falcons on my Saturday.  :P

[dethtungue]

The target you fired at will kill you next turn.  +4 to atk value against you.....yeah, not a bet im willing to take, not at 8 range and now looking at the Raptor II for a possible 6 dmg? with 7IT? Not only will you most likely not hit, you wont do alot anyway.....talk about useless.  if I am going to risk my mech, I want some damage....6 is good but 6 wont kill any mech I know of in 1 hit. Then with 7 IT, it will probably miss anyway, making you a nice sitting duck for just about every gun in the opposing team's arsenal.  I wont convince anyone CJF is not that amazing and I wont be convinced they are nice.  I suppose there are people who can use them with some seblence of effectiveness but all in all I find them kinda poor.  They had some units I liked but when I saw the Vulture and Mad Cat had 20D and 19D with Evade....I was like ahh, to low...  If I buy a heavy..I want 21D base minimum and Assaults 22.   

Your comments make me think you are more of a defensive player who wants to rely on high defense to protect you.  If so, you might find DF/HK or Highlander/ROTS more to your style of play.  It isn't my preferred faction but it appears to me that CJF is intended to be played aggressively, preferably with a lot of blocking terrain so that they benefit from their speed and jump jets as an offset for their low defense.  You've described several specific scenarios in your examples.  There are plenty of variables that you can control to improve your odds and turn the results to your advantage.  Use planetary conditions and terrain to improve your heat situation.  Don't like the 8 range when you see an army of CNC 16" range units?  Use Dust Storm and force your opponent to live with the same limitation.  Want to limit heat gained every turn?  Use SA-026.  Can't alpha strike hit an already damaged unit with your 7IT?  Make sure you have a +2 Attack pilot on that raptor or use a formation.  Want to kill an opposing assault mech in one hit?  Well, you better bring something bigger than a 144pt medium mech.  Every faction has stars and stinkers, however I think the Raptor II and the Thor don't fall into the stinker category- they are good standard units with several purposeful tricks up their sleeves. 

However I agree with the fore-mentioned Zeus.  Also the Mad Cat - that cost is too high for 19 starting defense.  I always thought that the CJF Ursa was a steaming pile for anything other than hiding out in hindering terrain although it is very cheap for a heavy.  I think that CJF has one of the best mediums ever in the Goshawk.  A pair of those with pilots are nearly guaranteed to pile-drive any mech (without agility) into scrap in one turn.  Read the CJF strategy thread on realms if it still exists, you'll see a lot of brilliant uses for units that you may have considered to be junk. 

When I occasionally play CJF Faction Pure, I tend to try to include the older units that can still use the faction abilities.   I like armies made up of Goshawks, Sylphs, Jaguars with kites in fast infantry formations.  I love TrackBikes - opponents often don't recognize their strengths until it is too late.

[Steinerman]

There are duds as well in the Falcon army, same as anyone- the Zeus comes to mind, for example, as well as the Koshi and Long Tom (seriously? Our artillery has HOW long of a range?), but to sell the Falcons short as being Lokis and crap isn't fair to them.

Hmm, I agree with most of what you said.  But lumping the Long Tom in as a dud?  I'll admit there are better artillery pieces out there, but I picked up three of the Falcon Long Toms and never regretted the decision.  To me they've been solid additions, if a bit on the expensive side. 

[LordKnightFandragon]

Your comments make me think you are more of a defensive player who wants to rely on high defense to protect you.  If so, you might find DF/HK or Highlander/ROTS more to your style of play. 

You would be right, I do play defensive .  My faction of choice was Steiner, decent Defense and good punch for when my opponent got into range with me.  They worked for me fairly well.  As did my "Solitude" Atlas w/ Jonah and "Sabertooth" Shadow Cat and Lossey backed up by I think it was HS Hadur's or my SW Padillas.  Won me many a game with those units....quite possibly the army I did the best with and the only time i was really aggressive at all.  Lossey and his long assault range, Jonah and his high Attack, it was a nice combo. I like high defense, atleast 4's for damage.  I usually camp with Streaks......Perhaps the Falcons would eat me alive but who knows.  I kinda suck at turned based games anyway...

[phoenixhawk]

I can say with 100% certainty that pure CJF armies are viable. However, they require a distinct play style that maximizes their abilities and minimizes their weaknesses. The CJF Loki is by far the best, but there are others, as have been mentioned. The Goshawk is nice, as are the Gyrfalcons, in my opinion. The thing is...as with many MWDA armies, the units all have to support each other. CJF doesn't really have a one-piece wrecking crew that can operate independently as some others do. Working together, though, CJF can be unstoppable.

Chris

[Iron Wolf]

Agreed, the Falcons have always required a little more finesse to play. They have plenty of capable units however.

[PeripheryPirate]

Coming from a Wolf, that's nearly high treason... and certainly blasphemous.

[Mecha82]

Agreed, the Falcons have always required a little more finesse to play. They have plenty of capable units however.

I can't disagree with that. There is reason why I also played CJF in pre-AoD and during it and thats becouse I enjoyed using them when I was not playing RotF or HK. Of course they were little more expensive by default than units of most other factions becouse of having faction abilities.

[radiationexposed]

Problem was (is) most players can not use the faction abilities effectively
kudos to those who can 8)

[Mecha82]

From all three CJF faction abilities I used Merciless a lot. It was fun to make DFA attacks with it. 

[Boldrick]

Faction abilities was one of better Wizkids moments, simple and efficient way of giving faction some flavor,
i played both CJF and Liao, it was quite easy to build an army that could effectively use all of abilities.
FC were poorer solution, sheer numbers and not quite balanced (like giving +2 additional range to
CNC which has 16 rang as standard)....
I liked Zellbringen, 6 eng. damage from a Sylph...no more pesky Arty.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Yeah, I cant lie, CJF was a cool faction before like Domination or was it Vanguard? When they got rid of the inherrent Faction Abilities.   I never really cared much for using their faction prides or playing with the faction but they certainly looked alot deadlier before.  They used to have good heat dials matched up with good vent ratings.  Decent Defenses and good attack values. They were fast with JJ.  Their Damage values were kinda low, maybe thats why I didnt play with them.  The Gyrfalcon and those bird looking mechs had good range but 2Ap and 3 dmg and stuff....sad damage.   Why did WK change the faction and ditch their abilities?  Did to many people cry OP!!!! ?  Quite honestly I dont think I ever saw those abilities used, CJF or Liao's. 

[phoenixhawk]

Honestly, I think the demise of the faction abilities was two-fold:

1. I think WK felt as if they had painted themselves into a corner with the faction abilities. Liao and CJF had them, but Davion, Steiner, Kurita, etc. did not and when they designed units for CJF and Liao they had to keep in mind those abilities and they felt hamstung by them since the focus had shifted to cards and by eliminating them and adding the cards to later sets, they could go a different route.

2. There was, near the end, what seemed to be a shift in design philosophies with more emphasis on gunslingers and mercs and less reliance on factions. I hesitate to use the word "lazy", but there were some trendstoward that route. By eliminating the faction abilities and relying more on gunslingers and factionless units or recruitable units they could use an easier cost formula. The recruitment costs on those early gunslingers for Liao and CJF were not a cost many paid and instead of designing units specifically for use by Liao and CJF, WK dropped the abilities to standardize the costs, making it easier for them to design figures and cards.

That's just my take on it. I enjoyed the faction abilities and used them for both Liao and CJF. It was fun to make an army to take advantage of the abilities.

Chris

[dethtungue]

On a couple occasions, pre-AOD, I built armies that included as many faction abilities as possible.  It wasn't too hard to put something together that included 8 abilities, but Awe was always difficult; I didn't think that many elite Liao units were worth deploying for half of my total build points.  As I recall Catalina Trujillo, the Targe and the Regulator II Hover Tank were the better units but I was always frustrated at how they didn't add up nicely to anything close to 225.
It was fun but complicated as it is a lot for both players to keep track of.  Besides, afterwards I felt like I had to take a shower for combining those three factions - kind of like using the Twins together before they were "adjusted".

[radiationexposed]

- kind of like using the Twins together before they were "adjusted".

was the TWINS a reference to the dual BR Legionaire armys????????    just had to ask (while "Dating" myself)  #P

[LordNth]

"Fortune" and "Glory"  Nyx Light class Mechs.
could use one and then give the other a free order.  Then use the other and give the first an order.  Watched them tear into a Heavy class Mech on the first round of combat.

[PeripheryPirate]

was the TWINS a reference to the dual BR Legionaire armys????????    just had to ask (while "Dating" myself)  #P

Nah, the Twins were the Pannichello sisters (Fortuna and Gloria... a.k.a. Fortune and Glory) that both piloted Nyxes and fed off of each other's energy like zombies feed on brains...

One of those things that really made people scratch their heads as to how in the world they got through playtesting.

[LordNth]

Remember the write up that said they weren't competitive pieces?  That they were made just for fun?

[phoenixhawk]

They made it through playtesting because WK refused to acknowledge there was a problem with those pieces. They tended not to listen to playtesters very well. :(  Except for a brief moment in Counterassault development. Otherwise...they tended to do what they wanted; especially near the end.

Chris

Nah, the Twins were the Pannichello sisters (Fortuna and Gloria... a.k.a. Fortune and Glory) that both piloted Nyxes and fed off of each other's energy like zombies feed on brains...

One of those things that really made people scratch their heads as to how in the world they got through playtesting.

[dethtungue]

They made it through playtesting because WK refused to acknowledge there was a problem with those pieces. They tended not to listen to playtesters very well. :(  Except for a brief moment in Counterassault development. Otherwise...they tended to do what they wanted; especially near the end.

Chris

That is interesting insight Magechris.  If I had ever heard that I had forgotten it.  I bet a lot of imbalances could have been prevented if they had used their playtesters as intended.

[GhostCat]

was the TWINS a reference to the dual BR Legionaire armys????????    just had to ask (while "Dating" myself)  #P

Wow, sombody actually remembers the old Gunhead charge monkeys.  This also was a mech that somehow slipped past the play testers, putting red flags on "deep infiltrate" and "first strike" armies.

Don't forget, that Gun wasn't there just for decoration, it could shoot, too.

GC

[wantec]

Coming from a Wolf, that's nearly high treason... and certainly blasphemous.

Not really, it takes a better warrior to use inferior equipment and still win. Just ask Hellbie, I helped show him the way with some of the Falcon units.

[JadeHellbringer]

Not really, it takes a better warrior to use inferior equipment and still win. Just ask Hellbie, I helped show him the way with some of the Falcon units.

Yeah, but you were playing me. No fair picking on the mentally handicapped.

[wantec]

Yeah, but you were playing me. No fair picking on the mentally handicapped.

Nah, even playing against the rest of the guys it wasn't too hard, just had to hope a planetary condition didn't totally screw you on terrain.

[cavingjan]

Nah, even playing against the rest of the guys it wasn't too hard, just had to hope a planetary condition didn't totally screw you on terrain.

So easy a cavingjan could do it?  :D

[wantec]

So easy a cavingjan could do it?  :D

yep, I'll just lay out the forces and terrain for you, and stick to the strategy and keep away from the Hellbie dice and you should have no problems.

[radiationexposed]

Don't forget, that Gun wasn't there just for decoration, it could shoot, too.

Not so much!! a 4 damage with a 9 attack   :-[
going up against black on defense = 2 damage

however, 4 damage +1 Brawling +1 Charge (impact damage) vrs. Black on defense =6 damage
at a range of 20 (+2 for bases) :o back in the day of no move and shoot, this was deadly.