Author Topic: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO  (Read 143598 times)

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #390 on: 10 July 2020, 10:31:59 »
3071 - June - Omnimechs

With full scale combat operations underway against the WOB Protectorate the rest of the Federated Sun's awaited news from the front. By now the common citizens of the various planets that made up the FedSun's fully expected to hear back that their troops had proven victorious. After all they had smashed the Liao's and humbled the Bull's and Kurita's as well. Still the WOB maintained a sinister aura around them that left more than a few nervous about the possible outcome, particularly with the WOB's use of nuclear ordinance in the past.



On the 2nd of June First Prince Victor dispatched the newly returned Princes's Champion Galen Cox to Robinson and then Kentares with a proposal for the Duke's of Robinson and Kentares. While Kentares was en-route to Robinson, the First Prince thought it polite to run it by the head of the Draconis March before broaching the matter with the Duke of Kentares. If these meetings went well Cox was to hurriedly head to Kestrel and then back to New Avalon to brief Jackson Davion the Marshal of Armies.



The news from Sherwood that the Court of Elders of that planet has voted in favour of raising a LCT sized formation from amongst the world's militia is welcome news, not only to the Davion High Command on New Avalon but also to the people of the Federated Suns. The patriotic gesture is extremely well received and demand for Sherwood products goes up across much of the Crucis March. On Sherwood itself the calls for volunteers soon swamp the very limited recruiting stations available for the planets militia and it is soon obvious that enough recruits are coming forward to make up not only the 1st Sherwood Foresters LCT but also potentially a second formation. Quickly additional supplies, cadre officers and equipment are routed to Sherwood and the Earl of Sherwood is informed that as well as being promoted to Leftenant General and given command of the new 1st Sherwood Foresters he will also command the new demi-brigade, with the 2nd Sherwood Foresters LCT to be maintained as a cadre unit for his own formation and as the planets garrison.



On Kestrel Duke Cunningham's plan to reinforce the Kestrel Grenadiers continues, with his own Ducal Guard unit, the Planetary Guard and Kestrel CrMM being carefully sifted for troops of the requisite calibre. Roughly a third of his own Ducal Guard (all of them veterans of the Grenadiers) are considered viable candidates, with roughly another company being siphoned off from the Kestrel CrMM. The Kestrel Planetary Guard's large (for a Planetary Guard) battlemech formations are another matter. While enough troops to form an entire battalion of volunteers have rushed forward few of them are of the required quality. The Duke orders the examiners to pick only the best. This winnowing process will take until the end of July but at which time a composite under strength battalion of mechwarriors along with supporting forces will be dispatched to the 1st Kestrel Grenadiers RCT on Gandy's Luck.



The Tortuga Combat Region saw more and more Clan Nova Cat convoys disgorging the Clan's civilians onto the prepared enclaves. Along with these Civilian Caste came a number of Galaxy's to garrison the new worlds. The Omicron and Omega Galaxies took up residence on the three worlds that had been prepared for them. Not only did the descending dropships bring Clan Nova Cat's peoples, but many of them contained prefabricated factories and industrial units which were swiftly set up - although it would be some months before any real output began.



Within the Pirates Haven Cluster the two LCT's of the Messengers of Shiva conduct a number of raids and sweeps of the various possible pirate hide outs. Most of these turn up nothing more than years or even decades old campsites, but the 1st Messengers of Shiva LCT manages to catch a small pirate band consisting of five battlemechs and two tanks and roughly three "platoons" of infantry unaware. Faced with overwhelming force the pirates put up almost no resistance and the 1st Messengers take them and their gear into custody.


Despite low level WOB activity the first of the former WOB Protectorate worlds - Caph - is formally reabsorbed into the Federated Suns on the 4th of June. The new Duke is recognised in all of his titles by First Prince Davion and the 1st Caph Grenadiers formally admitted to the rolls of the AFFS.



The eight Fox I corvettes of the 3rd Corvette Flotilla complete their upgrading to the new Fox II standard by the end of June, as does the FSS Weldon which had went into the repair slips following Verde. The FSS Weldon for now is the only ship left in it's Division until replacement ships can be built.



At Filtvelt the FSS Dayton, a Davion III destroyer, completes construction and is immedietly assigned to the 5th Carrier Battle Group. The FSS Dwight is laid down in it's place.



The FSS Nopah, FSS Kawich, FSS Csomad, FSS Ares and FSS No Return complete at Galax. The FSS Nopah and FSS Kawich are immedietly assigned to the 3rd Division of the 9th Corvette Flotilla, while the FSS Csomad, FSS Ares and FSS No Return are assigned to begin forming a 3rd Division for the 7th Corvette Flotilla. The FSS Chanute, FSS Mirage, FSS St Robert, FSS Farwell and FSS Altdorf are laid down in the vacant slips.



The FSS Sarah Davion completes at Kathil and is dispatched to join the 1st Carrier Battle Group. This now brings the 1st Carrier Battle Group to one New Syrtis II carrier, one Avalon cruiser and two Davion III destroyers, the single strongest Carrier Battle Group although Fleet Admiral Buchwald is keen to add more ships to the Carrier Battle Groups as soon as possible.



At New Syrtis the FSS Denver, a Davion III destroyer, completes and joins the 4th Carrier Battle Group. The FSS Detroit is laid down in it's place.



The single largest prize for the new naval construction is of course the FSS Marlborough. The huge Iron Duke class battleship is the first battleship constructed in Davion shipyards from the keel up - if you ignore the Defender class battlecruisers that were the former heavy ships of the fleet. The FSS Marlborough is assigned temporarily to a Training Squadron at New Avalon to work up it's crew, but the plan is to dispatch it to join the FSS Iron Duke in the 1st Battle Squadron once it has sufficient experience. The FSS Warspite is laid down in her place.



The other naval news is the completion of the repair slip over Tikonov. As soon as the FSS Divine has managed to repair it's jump engines sufficiently it is ordered to jump straight to Tikonov to begin repair work.



 Enterprise at long last announce formally that they will be bringing their latest omnimech developments to market in the coming months. For several years insiders have been revealing a large scale attempt by Corean to adapt at least one and possibly more of their existing designs to an omnimech design. Yet despite constant rumours little has actually been revealed until now. Corean officially announces that they have completed work to produce the Centurion-O and Valkyrie-O and will be offering both for sale. The AFFS to no-ones surprise immedietly places an order for the entire production run on both omnimechs for the next ten years. Behind closed doors the various members of the board are relieved to have this order placed as the project to turn all but the Legionnaire into an omnimech has been a huge strain on the companies finances. The attempts to produce a viable prototype for the Devastator, Trebuchet and Fireball as well as the Centurion and Valkyrie had been almost ruinous and for now have had to be put on hold. The company announce that the initial switch over to the new omnimech variants will begin with a rolling upgrade of their existing plants. Initially the two plants which will begin the upgrade are the single Centurion line on Augusta and the larger plant on June which has three Centurion lines and two Valkyries. Augusta is due to be completed by October, June will have at least one Valkyrie line complete it's upgrade at the same time, but the rest will only finish upgrading over the coming months. Once those plants are upgraded Corean's other two facilities will begin upgrading so as to ensure a constant supply to the AFFS of key war material.



On Outreach Blackwell Industries see it's Marauder II IIC line finally go operational, although production will be only half what was expected well into the new year as "gremlins" are worked out of the machinery and staff trained up fully. Blackwell then announces that it will be putting the "Royal" Shogun class assault battlemech into production as it's next project. The Davion High Command and in particular the Department of the Quartermaster are furious. Again and again they had pushed for a more balanced approach and for a wider variety of designs to be placed into production and yet again and again the company owned by Wolf's Dragoons had ignored them. A delegation was immedietly dispatched to point out that the rebuilding of Blackwell and indeed Outreach had been done only through the good graces of the Federated Suns and that those graces had now run out.



On Defiance GM's small Lorica production facility has tripled in size to meet the demand from the ComGuards. Further expansions however of the Lorica variant are placed on hold and instead Further expansions are to add a small Hauberk production facility to the plant - although not for sale to the ComGuards.



At Capella the final new aerospace line goes operational, producing Tomahawks. This gives Mujika-Wangker Aerospace five Corsair lines and one Tomahawk line at the plant there, providing a large quantity of high end medium class aerospace fighters for the local units of the League March.



Jaguar Industries finally completes their Warhawk assault omnimech line. Clan Sun Jaguar immedietly begins construction of a Mad Dog line on their new enclave on New Huntresss. At the same time they begin building a Stormcrow line at their existing plant on Valois.



The Draconis Combine Civil War undertakes a confusing upswing when the 3rd Genyosha and 14th Pesht Regulars, both Minoru loyalists, launch a full scale attack upon the 42nd Galedon Regulars on Xinygang - a nominally Minoru loyalist regiment. Soon however it becomes apparent that the 42nd is in fact serving the Black Dragons and has been purging the prefecture capital of all Kurita loyalists. With something to prove the 3rd Genyosha hammers into the 42nd's lines and makes a point of executing all Galedon troops that fall into their hands. The 14th Pesht Regulars while not quite as fanatical make up for their lack of experience with a willingness to throw themselves into combat. In brutal fighting the two loyalist units destroy over half the 42nd Galedon's strength.



The badly damaged 1st Proserpina Hussars begin launching raids throughout the Benjamin District against any Hohiro loyal commands. They also make efforts to promote and rally Minoru loyalists throughout the district. Their largest success is when they manage to catch a battalion of the 26th Benjamin Regulars isolated from the rest of the regiment on Dover and hammer it badly, destroying two thirds of it's mech's before withdrawing.



On Dumaring the battle between the Hohiro and Minoru loyalists continue with neither side making much headway. Although at the end of June the 7th Arkab Legion finds an unguarded pass into the mountains and notifies the 3rd Proserpina Hussars of it's existence.



On Arcturus June marks the beginning of the Battle of June, with both Clan Wolf and the Lyran Alliance throwing everything they have into the fighting...
« Last Edit: 11 July 2020, 05:41:56 by Billy Boy Mark II »

Kiko70

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #391 on: 10 July 2020, 11:02:57 »

On Arcturus June marks the beginning of the Battle of June, with both Clan Wolf and the Lyran Alliance throwing everything they have into the fighting...
[/quote]

..The Lyran Gottadamerung….The Arcturan Meatgrinder has begun..

Seydlitz

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #392 on: 10 July 2020, 17:03:11 »
Blackwell needs to diversify and fast if they're going to have any chance of placating the FS, there's at least half a dozen conventional vehicle designs they should have built by now. As for mech designs, I don't think there were any canon light or medium mechs built by Blackwell though not entirely certain of that. The only ones I know for sure were the Gallowglass and the War Dog, both of which they should have focused on first since they're much cheaper than any assault mech with widespread marketability to mercenaries, FS, LA, FRR, ComGuards and Solaris VII. The Dragoons could provide the specs on the Star League-in-Exile variants of the Falcon and Firefly to kick-start light mech production just to get the Davion High Command off their backs for a while, just need to re-introduce the Snub-Nosed PPC. Additionally,  Marauder II IIC is kinda a mouthful, how about just Marauder IIIC?

Regarding the Iron Duke-class, historical British battleships is great source for names but it might better avoid those named after British monarchs since the majority of 31st Century FS citizens are unlikely to understand the reference especially since you named this last one George V. I can imagine Davion citizens asking each other "George who exactly?, fifth of what?", how about Warspite or Valiant as an alternative? Or if you like Pirates of the Caribbean, how about Dauntless or Black Pearl?

« Last Edit: 10 July 2020, 17:06:49 by Seydlitz »

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #393 on: 10 July 2020, 17:43:35 »
Honestly, Blackwell shouldn't even be looking at the Federated Suns as their primary customer, they SHOULD be feed the Merc market, corporate market and other 3rd parties.
I could be wrong, but I didn't think that the Federated Suns had actually invested into Blackwell or owned stock. So them getting furious and wanting to demand they make certain Mechs seems a little ... weird?

Although I'd agree for a different reason that they should be focusing on building (excepting perhaps their signature Mararuder II(c) as a flagship sort of line, medium weight Clan Omnimechs with excellent pod-options. It's a market that would let them print money really...
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #394 on: 10 July 2020, 17:56:51 »
Honestly, Blackwell shouldn't even be looking at the Federated Suns as their primary customer, they SHOULD be feed the Merc market, corporate market and other 3rd parties.
I could be wrong, but I didn't think that the Federated Suns had actually invested into Blackwell or owned stock. So them getting furious and wanting to demand they make certain Mechs seems a little ... weird?

Although I'd agree for a different reason that they should be focusing on building (excepting perhaps their signature Mararuder II(c) as a flagship sort of line, medium weight Clan Omnimechs with excellent pod-options. It's a market that would let them print money really...
Blackwell, Outreach, and the Dragoons are only alive and rebuilding because the FedSuns are the ones supporting them. They are under the control of the FedSuns but they were given a loose hand with instructions to build up new lines and suggestions to build smaller and easier lines first. Instead they have routinely snubbed the FedSuns by going for the biggest mechs possible.

As for feeding the mercs they don't have anyone to sell to the mercs in the FedSuns get better deals from the government and the other companies. No real third parties either since their entire factory was destroyed and they haven't been able to recover. Also their rep took a major hit for their betrayal then their loss and failures against the WoB.
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Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #395 on: 10 July 2020, 18:26:23 »
Blackwell, Outreach, and the Dragoons are only alive and rebuilding because the FedSuns are the ones supporting them. They are under the control of the FedSuns but they were given a loose hand with instructions to build up new lines and suggestions to build smaller and easier lines first. Instead they have routinely snubbed the FedSuns by going for the biggest mechs possible.


I repeat; when did the Federated Suns take control of the company?

That the Federated Suns stepped in to formally take control of Outreach is well known but to the best of my knowledge, they never got any equity into Blackwell that would give them the slightest right to tell them what to make outside of things like export controls.

The Federated Suns has the right not to buy their products, but unless they turned into a command economy overnight and I missed that, they don't have the right to tell them what to make, unless Blackwell entered into a partnership with them to take funding to make very specific lines. And if the Federated Suns Government was dumbass enough to give them money without any conditions on a clear legal contract, well, Victor probably needs to fire some people but he doesn't have the right to DO anything.

As for the Merc market, there is ALWAYS a Merc market. The vast bulk of merc units are not the massive multi-regiment units but units of a lance/company/battalion size who need their own suppliers. Historically Blackwell had a huge share of that market. And as I pointed out in my post, they are pretty much the only company in the Inner Sphere who can make CLANTECH on any scale. The other supplies are actual Clans - who are pretty much exclusive to Governments.

Merc units, corporate units and allied powers like ComStar, the Lyrans and regional Governments, March Lords and Dukes would be banging down their doors saying 'SHUT UP AND TAKE MY C-BILLS!' completly irrespective of their 'reputation' - which they can easily spin anyway by pointing out that despite their close association with the Dragoons, they didn't have a damn thing to do with Jamies decision making or the consequences therein.
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

georgiaboy

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #396 on: 10 July 2020, 19:00:06 »
One side of production that Blackwell and the Two Clan holdings should start producing and will be needed for mech production down the line. They should be ramping up parts production first to have supplies built up prior to startup of mech production. They can also take these Clan parts and sell at a premium to pay for mech production lines.


Clan ER-Medium Lasers would sell like hotcakes, So would Large Pulse Lasers and Heatsinks.


On another front the Jag and Cats could finance alot of their holdings with Davion with specs for the Royal Mechs. The Mongoose and Stinger Royal mechs are great light mechs. As are alot of them.
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Kiko70

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #397 on: 10 July 2020, 19:45:27 »
Blackwell needs to diversify and fast if they're going to have any chance of placating the FS, there's at least half a dozen conventional vehicle designs they should have built by now. As for mech designs, I don't think there were any canon light or medium mechs built by Blackwell though not entirely certain of that. The only ones I know for sure were the Gallowglass and the War Dog, both of which they should have focused on first since they're much cheaper than any assault mech with widespread marketability to mercenaries, FS, LA, FRR, ComGuards and Solaris VII. The Dragoons could provide the specs on the Star League-in-Exile variants of the Falcon and Firefly to kick-start light mech production just to get the Davion High Command off their backs for a while, just need to re-introduce the Snub-Nosed PPC. Additionally,  Marauder II IIC is kinda a mouthful, how about just Marauder IIIC?

Regarding the Iron Duke-class, historical British battleships is great source for names but it might better avoid those named after British monarchs since the majority of 31st Century FS citizens are unlikely to understand the reference especially since you named this last one George V. I can imagine Davion citizens asking each other "George who exactly?, fifth of what?", how about Warspite or Valiant as an alternative? Or if you like Pirates of the Caribbean, how about Dauntless or Black Pearl?

My thoughts exactly!!

I would add Vanguard, Victory, Bulwark, Colossus, Leviathan, Majestic, Dreadnought or any of the R class names like Resolution, Reknown, Repulse, Revenge and Davion is supposed to be Anglo-French so some famous French ship names like  Bretagne, Gloire, Normandie, Devastation', Redoubtable and Dunkerque..

Personally Vanguard or Warspite are my favs, one probably the most elegant battleship ever built and the latter the most distinguished in service.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2020, 19:49:41 by Kiko70 »

David CGB

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #398 on: 10 July 2020, 19:46:14 »
One side of production that Blackwell and the Two Clan holdings should start producing and will be needed for mech production down the line. They should be ramping up parts production first to have supplies built up prior to startup of mech production. They can also take these Clan parts and sell at a premium to pay for mech production lines.
agreed trade between Blackwell and those two Clans would and should be pushed, if one helps the other grow, both will befit in the end and royal mechs should be at the top of the growth list .
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Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #399 on: 10 July 2020, 21:20:26 »
One side of production that Blackwell and the Two Clan holdings should start producing and will be needed for mech production down the line. They should be ramping up parts production first to have supplies built up prior to startup of mech production. They can also take these Clan parts and sell at a premium to pay for mech production lines.


Clan ER-Medium Lasers would sell like hotcakes, So would Large Pulse Lasers and Heatsinks.


On another front the Jag and Cats could finance alot of their holdings with Davion with specs for the Royal Mechs. The Mongoose and Stinger Royal mechs are great light mechs. As are alot of them.

Honestly, Blackwell having decided to scrap their Mech manufacturing and simply being a 100% Clantech component manufacturer could have put them in a vastly better position. The Inner Sphere has a LOT of Clantech now, but its got next to zero logistical support behind it. Doing nothing but building CLan ER Medium lasers, ERPPCs, Pulse lasers for example, would have let them carve out an incredible niche and would have had manufacturers stabbing each other in the back and climbing all over each other to get supply contracts with them...

Of course Inner Sphere Clantech manufacturing is one of those FASANOMIC 'Don't mention the war!' things.
"I, the Baron of Strang, care not for your new names. Clans? Jade Falcons? I call you by your true name: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will, persecutors of the Periphery come back to lord it over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans!"

-Baron Stepan Von Strang

drakensis

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #400 on: 11 July 2020, 00:05:11 »
My thoughts exactly!!

I would add Vanguard, Victory, Bulwark, Colossus, Leviathan, Majestic, Dreadnought or any of the R class names like Resolution, Reknown, Repulse, Revenge and Davion is supposed to be Anglo-French so some famous French ship names like  Bretagne, Gloire, Normandie, Devastation', Redoubtable and Dunkerque..

Personally Vanguard or Warspite are my favs, one probably the most elegant battleship ever built and the latter the most distinguished in service.
I'd reluctantly agree that George V is not a likely pick. I can imagine someone trying to figure out which Hasek it was or something.

Maybe take a look at the ships that fought at Trafalgar rather than Dreadnought-era ships? Plenty of great names like Temeraire just begging to be used.
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Seydlitz

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #401 on: 11 July 2020, 00:18:48 »
One possibility the Dragoons could use to appease the FS. Let's say during Zeta Battalion's "aggressive negotiations" with Mitchell Vehicles, some of their techs just happen to be "browsing" through the company's computer archives and stumble upon a heavily encrypted file. Unable to crack it given they don't have much time, the techs convince the CO to "persuade" Mitchell executives to "transfer" the file to the Dragoons as part of the deal for the Shogun.
Later back on Outreach, the techs decipher the encryption and open the file what they discover is both shocking and potential leverage to get Victor to back off a little.
The First Prince is astounded when he is shown the file while visiting Outreach to have a little chat with General Wolf. Within the file is not only a full set of blueprints of the extinct Luxor-class Heavy Cruiser, but complete blueprints of the Monsoon, Farragut, Texas and McKenna-class Battleships! While the Luxor was well known as a Mitchell design, there are no known records of the company designing any battleships let alone building any of these legendary  designs under license. General Wolf immediately offers to turn over the file to the Federated Suns as a sort of peace offering. Stunned, Victor accepts then departs to consult with his advisors though reminding Wolf they still have much to discuss all the while thinking to himself  "where did Mitchell get these plans from and when, were they really lost in their lost in thier archives for 300 years or did they acquire them more recently"?

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #402 on: 11 July 2020, 06:00:00 »
Okay firstly, yeah I take on board what everyone is saying about the FSS George V. Only really thought it might work due to having seen the name used in the Codominium series for an Empire of Man battleship and thought that it then might work. But yeah you guys are right. It's been changed to FSS Warspite.


As for Blackwell. The FedSun's government doesn't have stocks in the company. However it did extend extremely generous loans and technical assistance to get the company (and Dragoons/Outreach) back on their feet. It was made clear at that stage what direction the FedSun's government would expect Blackwell to go in. As Chris O'Farrell suggested there was a strong inference that a clantech production facility churning out clan level lasers, endo steel, etc... was a "very good idea". Although given that Blackwell and the Dragoons were committed to returning to the Battlemech production game that was considered viable - but with the suggestion that easier to build and less complex machines would be prioritised.

Instead the Dragoons have consistently made efforts to produce signature battlemechs that are incredibly slanted towards the assault end of the spectrum. Half of the designs they are producing are 100 tons behemoths. This isn't exactly what the FedSuns thought was the plans. To add weight to this is the issues that both the Imp and Marauder II lines have had in entering full production.

Expect the Davion team being sent to Outreach making it clear to the Dragoons that if they continue to entirely ignore the requests of the FedSun's government (and for the record the Davion's have been allowing them independence and aren't saying they have to follow instructions to the letter, but totally ignoring every single request is pushing it) then those loans might be cancelled or called in. At the very least no further loans or credit will be extended for further rebuilding. The AFFS now has an alternate (and higher end) source of Clantech now. For one thing the Sun Jaguars are prepare to sell full on clan level omnimechs to the AFFS. Okay not in huge numbers or that many designs as yet, but that relationship is already a lot healthier than the one between the FedSun's and Blackwell.

It doesn't help that Zeta blatantly strong armed Mitchel into handing over the specs. That sort of bully boy tactics isn't really kosher. Nor is it legal.

My feeling on the whole Dragoons-Fedsuns is that there is a little bad feeling on the Davion side. The Wolf's Dragoons were granted Outreach as a fief. Along with considerable independence for the Dragoons despite their planet being in the FedSuns. A pretty good deal all in all. And yet when the Liao's and Mariks hit the Sarna March - the Dragoons did... nothing. Worse, they pretty much declared independence right of the bat. The Dragoons were still recovering from the Civil War, but with 5 odd regiments of battlemechs and 6 warships as well as extensive jumpship assets they could have stood by the FedCom and done a lot to help. At least that's the perception.

Now again House Davion has helped them out. Generously. But this time the Dragoons will be reminded they work for the FedSun's now and that their world is a FedSun's world. Any fantasies of charting an independent course as though they owned Outreach as an independent world need to be forgotten about.

I do like the idea of the Luxor cruiser specs... Love that ship. Might be a stretch though? More likely to be found in their HQ on Terra?

Chris OFarrell

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #403 on: 11 July 2020, 06:50:57 »
110% agree the Dragoons hung the Federated Commonwealth out to dry, although to be frank a lot of that comes down on Hanse and Katrina/Melissa never keeping an eye on Jamie throughout the 30's and 40's. Working to make sure he understood he answered to THEM and no, he was not an independent nation.
AT the very least they needed far more overwatch and integration in the 3050s after they came clean about the Clans.
But I can understand why in this fic after Victor and the Suns shook off everything and came roaring back like a tsunami to be the megapower, that the Dragoons should understand they are in the doghouse for their casual 'meh, don't care about 'Inner Sphere' stuff' attitude.

Still, in this current situation I think you might be overstating the hold the Federated Suns has on Blackwell (at least at my first glance).

If they don't have direct stock in the company, their power is pretty limited. Unless the loans given have explicit terms that iron clad tell them what they can and cannot make or that the Federated Suns Government has final decision making over what their funds can be used for and all expansion MUST be cleared or something, you can't simply do a Vader and 'I AM ALTERING THE DEAL! PRAY I DON'T ALTER IT FURTHER!' given the FEdSuns has an actual court system (that IIRC in this fic VIctor has used several times even transnationally to slap people playing games with him).
Cutting off funding also probably wouldn't help that much either; as the only non Clan mass producer of Clantech in the Inner Sphere, every other Megacorp, March Lord, Archon-wanabe, Lyran Banker, ComStar Precentor and Duke with a chequebook would be lining up to step in and offer their own funding in place of the Federated Suns Government because its almost a license to print money. The Wolves in Exile, Sun Jaguars and Nova Cats only offer a pretty tiny trickle of stuff after all where as Blackwell, at least in theory, should be in a position now to expand in a purely industrial manner (and they even have IIRC good relations with the Sun Jaguars, the two helping each other, which makes things tricky there).

It's not to say Victor can't crush Blackwell if he really wants to of course. But that IMO would run the risk of a lot of Federated Suns megacorps (who are Shadowrun lite) taking the Dragoons side in the dispute and the last thing Victor needs is a full blown argument with his military-industrial complex, who hold massive political power directly and indirectly. If the Federated Suns gave Blackwell a lot of free money with nothing stronger than a 'HINT HINT' as to what they should build and didn't actually write anything down like any sane contract should very clearly spell out ... then honestly the Suns really need to fire whoever they sent in to negotiate.

With all that said, if they DID write it down and the Dragoons are ignoring their agreements and pretending the Dragoons are an independent nation with an independent defense industry, again, yank that choke chain and make the damn mutts whimper.

I'd also suggest that at the least, the Dragoons should be hauled before their employer with a Merc review board keelhauling Zeta for that stunt. Fine the Dragoons a pretty penny and force Blackwell to give everything back and never try to produce the designs. Because that is just not on. Theoretically the MRB should be able to look into this but A) It's a Dragoon invention after all and B) I'd wonder if it even exists anymore and of course C) The Federated Suns has such dominance over the Merc market these days ...
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Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #404 on: 11 July 2020, 07:42:28 »
110% agree the Dragoons hung the Federated Commonwealth out to dry, although to be frank a lot of that comes down on Hanse and Katrina/Melissa never keeping an eye on Jamie throughout the 30's and 40's. Working to make sure he understood he answered to THEM and no, he was not an independent nation.
AT the very least they needed far more overwatch and integration in the 3050s after they came clean about the Clans.
But I can understand why in this fic after Victor and the Suns shook off everything and came roaring back like a tsunami to be the megapower, that the Dragoons should understand they are in the doghouse for their casual 'meh, don't care about 'Inner Sphere' stuff' attitude.

Still, in this current situation I think you might be overstating the hold the Federated Suns has on Blackwell (at least at my first glance).

If they don't have direct stock in the company, their power is pretty limited. Unless the loans given have explicit terms that iron clad tell them what they can and cannot make or that the Federated Suns Government has final decision making over what their funds can be used for and all expansion MUST be cleared or something, you can't simply do a Vader and 'I AM ALTERING THE DEAL! PRAY I DON'T ALTER IT FURTHER!' given the FEdSuns has an actual court system (that IIRC in this fic VIctor has used several times even transnationally to slap people playing games with him).
Cutting off funding also probably wouldn't help that much either; as the only non Clan mass producer of Clantech in the Inner Sphere, every other Megacorp, March Lord, Archon-wanabe, Lyran Banker, ComStar Precentor and Duke with a chequebook would be lining up to step in and offer their own funding in place of the Federated Suns Government because its almost a license to print money. The Wolves in Exile, Sun Jaguars and Nova Cats only offer a pretty tiny trickle of stuff after all where as Blackwell, at least in theory, should be in a position now to expand in a purely industrial manner (and they even have IIRC good relations with the Sun Jaguars, the two helping each other, which makes things tricky there).

It's not to say Victor can't crush Blackwell if he really wants to of course. But that IMO would run the risk of a lot of Federated Suns megacorps (who are Shadowrun lite) taking the Dragoons side in the dispute and the last thing Victor needs is a full blown argument with his military-industrial complex, who hold massive political power directly and indirectly. If the Federated Suns gave Blackwell a lot of free money with nothing stronger than a 'HINT HINT' as to what they should build and didn't actually write anything down like any sane contract should very clearly spell out ... then honestly the Suns really need to fire whoever they sent in to negotiate.

With all that said, if they DID write it down and the Dragoons are ignoring their agreements and pretending the Dragoons are an independent nation with an independent defense industry, again, yank that choke chain and make the damn mutts whimper.

I'd also suggest that at the least, the Dragoons should be hauled before their employer with a Merc review board keelhauling Zeta for that stunt. Fine the Dragoons a pretty penny and force Blackwell to give everything back and never try to produce the designs. Because that is just not on. Theoretically the MRB should be able to look into this but A) It's a Dragoon invention after all and B) I'd wonder if it even exists anymore and of course C) The Federated Suns has such dominance over the Merc market these days ...

Yup, the Dragoons really didn't live up to the letter or spirit of their agreement with Hanse Davion in '57. Something that at least within the Davion High Command has cost them a lot of influence/respect. That level of independence is not going to be repeated ever again by the FedSuns. The Dragoons have been made aware that they are a FedSun's mercenary unit and will act accordingly. Or they'll lose Outreach. At the very least.

The loans will certainly have had riders in them that should House Davion consider that the company is in breach of it's contractual obligations to them and acting irresponsibly then they can be pulled. Nobody hands out that sort of cash without said contractual stipulations. Now the nightmare would be taking it to court to prove that - and it could go either way if the judges felt that Blackwell was within it's rights. So ideally - both sides would rather avoid that. However if Blackwell keeps acting like it can do what it want then the FedSun's government will be more inclined to take them to court.

Cutting off additional funding won't hurt them much, although cutting of support from say NAIS would hurt a bit more - but by now Blackwell is back on it's feet enough they could do without both. Particularly if they can call on other sources like the Kell Hounds/WiE.

Basically the FedSun's have a collar on Blackwell/Dragoons but have been keen not to use it and to come to an amicable agreement. Blackwell have been ignoring said attempts so now things will be a bit harsher.

Hell the FedSun's would probably have been happier with even just Blackwell mass producing the Falcon-C design they were producing as a single line. Multiple lines mass producing a proven clan tech light mech? The AFFS would love that - much more than small numbers of clan tech assault mechs and a few light and heavies. The assaults and heavies could be added later.

Zeta have clearly overstepped, forgetting that they are now not operating as an independent battalion of an independent power but instead a mercenary unit under contract to the AFFS. Probably as a result of their long term frustration with Mitchell refusing a license for the Shogun - something the Dragoons tried to get for decades with no luck. This is exactly the sort of thing that the AFFS has been watching for in the Dragoons as they rebuild, the mercenary unit starting to act like the top dog again.

The MRB is pretty much defunct, having died during the bombardment. A probably successor if it isn't already in the works will be born largely from this little fall out.

Any thoughts on the Luxor design as suggested by Seydlitz? A warship too far?

Artifex

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #405 on: 11 July 2020, 09:25:42 »
Hm, I reckon it'll be rather tricky to solve this FS / WD issue in your storyline but something definitely needs to be done, as you've also alluded to by sending that Davion envoy to them.

Regarding the Luxor, I feel it would fit really well into the WarShip Fleet structure, it is after all a Heavy Destroyer, no? Issue will be however, where to build and how many to build each time. If Victor / Burton were able to get their hands on the schematics I would personally plan to build them in the Outback near the Tortuga Dominions in order to further strengthen the industrial and economic build up of that region, seeing as they are already receiving damn huge dividends from those investments as well and that area is so far away from all frontlines (except for stings by the Concordats - which probably would not even happen in Burtons and his sons lifetime anyways) that it would be a major force multiplier in future WarShip fleet developments

paulobrito

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #406 on: 11 July 2020, 09:37:10 »
The Luxor is a Heavy Cruiser, not a Heavy Destroyer.

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #407 on: 11 July 2020, 10:06:57 »
Hm, I reckon it'll be rather tricky to solve this FS / WD issue in your storyline but something definitely needs to be done, as you've also alluded to by sending that Davion envoy to them.

Regarding the Luxor, I feel it would fit really well into the WarShip Fleet structure, it is after all a Heavy Destroyer, no? Issue will be however, where to build and how many to build each time. If Victor / Burton were able to get their hands on the schematics I would personally plan to build them in the Outback near the Tortuga Dominions in order to further strengthen the industrial and economic build up of that region, seeing as they are already receiving damn huge dividends from those investments as well and that area is so far away from all frontlines (except for stings by the Concordats - which probably would not even happen in Burtons and his sons lifetime anyways) that it would be a major force multiplier in future WarShip fleet developments

The Luxor is a Heavy Cruiser, not a Heavy Destroyer.

It's a heavy cruiser, more of a gun cruiser than the mid range Avalon cruiser so might fit in there. It's actually heavier than the Black Lion battlecruiser. But has a more varied armament.

cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #408 on: 11 July 2020, 11:39:33 »
the WD would have to had known that Zeta actions was going to cause major issues.  they would had to think of something to calm those waves down.  Wolfnet could have "found hints" about the CA and they went looking for it and a few other golden nuggets of info.  to give up these plans and golden nuggets they keep the shogun plans.  Are the WD making battle taxi or Elemental BA(without harjel)  or Nighthawk BA plans for these might be boon to "rent" to the FS. 

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #409 on: 11 July 2020, 11:52:45 »
The Luxor is a heavy cruiser and one that is ill suited for dealing with ASF or massed smaller hits. It also doesn't fit any niche for the FSN. The Avalon is well enough suited for mainline Cruiser detail. The new Black Lion II is large and powerful enough to fill the Heavy Cruiser and Battlecruiser role. The Luxor just doesn't fit anything needed. Plus you don't want to have multiple ships filling the same role since that just makes logistics a nightmare. Plus it gives the Dragoons a boost and credit for their actions which we don't want. I would like the Luxor as I think it is a good ship. Unless the Avalon is updated to fill a very specialized role though the Luxor as a new cruiser for the FSN is unlikely.
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #410 on: 11 July 2020, 14:09:13 »
Maybe they are considering the Luxor as an item to sell elsewhere. The FS may not need it, but others might.

cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #411 on: 11 July 2020, 14:13:14 »
Maybe they are considering the Luxor as an item to sell elsewhere. The FS may not need it, but others might.
about the only one's they could sell it to, without make the FS mad is ComStar.  Nova Cats, Sun Jag's don't have a yard....... but the Bears and Ravens do.  i wonder what they would trade for the Luxor plans? 

Adventwolf

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #412 on: 11 July 2020, 14:36:55 »
Selling it to anyone else is a bad idea because it then gives that power a new weapon to use against the FedSuns. ComStar can't build it as their yards are mostly for smaller ships. The Clans are all out as they are still the enemy. Sun Jaguar, Nova Cat, and WIE are all abjured clans so they have joined the Inner Sphere proper but are tied to other powers that now have to build their own ships first. Right now the new yard for the Fedrasa is the only yard the Clans have for new ships. As they grow stronger they will be able to make a yard for themselves but will either build what they already have or ships of their host house. The WIE have a repair yard at Arc Royal but no construction yards. The Lyrans are the only other group that would buy the ship but they don't need it. They have the Commonwealth, the Thrakad, and the Mjolnir to fill the Cruisers slots.
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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #413 on: 11 July 2020, 14:51:49 »
One ship design that is shown a need on several weight levels, and has not even existed in the universe since the pre-earth era is the escort design. All Warships  in universe has their weapons loadout weighted toward anti ship. I have never seen a weapons loadout weighted toward anti-fighter. With the experience shown in the Clan/IS War, fighters, small craft and dropships are a very strong counter to warships. They are just space intensive for warships.
I see that Escort Destroyers, and a Heavy Escort Cruiser is needed, Escort Destroyers for Medium ship, Convoy and Carriers. and a Cruiser weighted Escort for protecting the Heavy ships. Both designs Heavy on armor for defense of Capital weapons. Heavy anti-fighter weapons, and missiles launchers with big magazines to bridge the gap of fighter, dropship and against heavier targets. And some heavy weapons to keep the Capital ships honest.
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Artifex

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #414 on: 11 July 2020, 14:57:47 »
Excellent point Georgiaboy, I would favor such a design here as well. Is there such already floating about in the Design section?

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #415 on: 11 July 2020, 15:04:41 »
about the only one's they could sell it to, without make the FS mad is ComStar.  Nova Cats, Sun Jag's don't have a yard....... but the Bears and Ravens do.  i wonder what they would trade for the Luxor plans?

Would the Lyrans buy it?
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cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #416 on: 11 July 2020, 15:07:47 »
Would the Lyrans buy it?

they might buy an CA Escort, but they are going to be tight on construction slips.  someone else would have to build them for the Lyrans

Billy Boy Mark II

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #417 on: 11 July 2020, 15:32:06 »
Well looks like as much as I love the Luxor - it's not getting built. :p

cawest

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #418 on: 11 July 2020, 15:53:28 »
Well looks like as much as I love the Luxor - it's not getting built. :p

Man that sucks!!!!

David CGB

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Re: The Federated Sun's Reborn Part TWO
« Reply #419 on: 11 July 2020, 16:41:24 »
Well looks like as much as I love the Luxor - it's not getting built. :p
why not rebuild as a light carrier, take 6,000 ton for aerospace fighters and add in some anti fighter weapons, it should fill this role nicely would you not say
Federated Suns fan forever, Ghost Bear Fan since 1992, and as a Ghost Bear David Bekker star captain (in an Alt TL Loremaster)

 

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