BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Trajan Helmer on 10 February 2013, 19:25:25
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As the old thread has reached its limit...
Fluffing them out isn't that problem, my love of tongue in cheek jokes is.
Let us in on some of the worst(best) jokes you've made so far?
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He Wen Thataway, Kow Pie, He Man, were all CapCon pilots. Daisy Dukes has served the Lyrans in a Charger, Johnny Law has been a Copper mechwarrior in one scenario. Hans Olo in a Falcon. Hellen Keller has served the Blood Spirits in a Cyclops in one game. I use names from webcomics for a lot of pilot names too, Torg in a Viking, Riff in a Rifleman. GI Jane as a Commando pilot. Dropships named for airliners, FedSuns Clipper, Star of New Jersey. The Resolute II is a Union Dropship I have painted up right now. An entire storyline about a tank being pushed by a Sgt Bilko that ended up being lost in a raid that had to be gotten back. A Atlas called "The Big O". An entire unit of mercs painted up in my SCA household colors, you don't know how much that annoys one guy. Random names like That Man, This Man, That Man over There have all been used as has a mech piloted by the Man with no Name that hunts the Bounty Hunter. Lee Van Cleef serves as a mechwarrior in my 1st FedSuns Lancers as a Gunslinger Pilot. Things like that, there have been more I just can't think of them right now.
Oops almost forgot the Sea Skimmers numbered 73 and 109 and the Monitor called the Sand Pebble. You would be suprised how few people get some of the references.
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The Blood Spirits... I wish they could have escaped. Alas, it was not meant to be. Alack! It was a glorious final autumn. Cherry blossoms would be envious. A lone gunshot at dusk would wistfully give report to greet the night.
But free verse their lines in the Remembrance not be. Even in canned faux Shakespearean, or yodaspeak, do words fall short and are exposed as paltry things by the light of their ever burning fire of hate for the Clan Way.
:)
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Wait...what Trajan...I thought we had until 50 pages? Did the admins change that recently?
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Wait...what Trajan...I thought we had until 50 pages? Did the admins change that recently?
It has something to do with how many posts you have set to be displayed per page as default.
For me, the old thread shows 42 pages.
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Hmmm. I thought something was off when my smartphone displayed something different from my home computer. My browser was showing 50 pages and I thought everyone ran that as a default. Color me embarrassed and not-the-savviest when it comes to this kind of stuff.
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He Wen Thataway, Kow Pie, He Man, were all CapCon pilots. Daisy Dukes has served the Lyrans in a Charger, Johnny Law has been a Copper mechwarrior in one scenario. Hans Olo in a Falcon. Hellen Keller has served the Blood Spirits in a Cyclops in one game................ An entire unit of mercs painted up in my SCA household colors, you don't know how much that annoys one guy.
;D Some great puns there. When I was active in the SCA in Ansteorra, we had a knight by the name of, "Asaph Harts," and I knew a guy who tried get heraldry to match a name he was trying to get approved, Beamus Upscotty.
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SCA names are always fun. Know a guy named Nicholas Claus with his heraldry being a red field with three farming impliments on it. Three hoes. My own name is a Battletech Referance, its Hans Steiner. I couldn't get a upthrust gauntlet in my arms, but I did get a Fox on it.
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So to get back on track on page 1, WHY does everyone like the Spirits so much?
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You just can't keep 'em down.
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So to get back on track on page 1, WHY does everyone like the Spirits so much?
They are the Liao of Clan Space.
They tried to treat the other Clans well, and were smacked for it. They were forced into adopting a
Fortress York approach, with a military as large as any other Clan...on ONE WORLD. The only way to
take them out is, ultimately, what was used: Orbital Bombardment. Frankly, the Fall of York is one of
those things that just seemed completely un-Clan-like for the Adders. If they were tired of wasting the
resources in the meatgrinder of York, they could have just pulled out. That is one thing that the WoR
and WoRS fails to make clear: why did the Adders do it?
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They are the Liao of Clan Space.
They tried to treat the other Clans well, and were smacked for it. They were forced into adopting a Fortress York approach, with a military as large as any other Clan...on ONE WORLD. The only way to take them out is, ultimately, what was used: Orbital Bombardment. Frankly, the Fall of York is one of those things that just seemed completely un-Clan-like for the Adders. If they were tired of wasting the resources in the meatgrinder of York, they could have just pulled out. That is one thing that the WoR and WoRS fails to make clear: why did the Adders do it?
You already said it. Hanse started the 4th war over ego and personal annoyance. "A fit of pique" as it was stated. The Adders had the same attitude towards the Spirits; they couldn't just pull out because that would prove their weakness. So they just destroyed the Spirits out of ego and annoyance.
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You know...I wonder if the Adders had not destroyed York, but, instead, had sent a request for Hegiira,and left York intact
if, when the Trial of Absorption was declared, if the Adders would have had to kill every Spirit Bondsman they took? Could the
Adders have actually strengthened themselves?
Then again, I also kind of wonder why WERE the Adders awarded the Right of Absorption? It would seem that Stone Lions
and Coyotes were the ones who could have argued most for it. And Cloud Cobra could have actually pulled it off without
the enmity that had spawned between the Adders and Spirits. I mean, really: the loss of the Spirits weakened the Clans as
a whole.
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Chicken Bone Defence, the other Clans could have absorbed the Spirits but would have choked on it and gutted themselves. In other words, what the Coyotes or the Stone Lions could have gotten out of a absorbtion would have been nothing compared to what they would have lost in the attempt. The Spirits were on the ropes but would have put up a heck of a fight. I was always suprised the Spirits were not kicked out of the Homeworlds like the Scorps as it would have been less wasteful rescource wise, if you could count the Colleen System as part of Clan space that is.
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Could the Cobras have actually used some diplomacy to get the Spirits to put up "token" resistance, though, and thus
took the Spirits and Coleen system more or less intact? Though...that might be exactly why the Adders didn't let them...
the Cobras would have become strong enough to have, potentially, challenged the Adders for the Top Snake in the Homeworlds.
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Doubtful in my opinion, pride goeth before a fall. The Spirits, they had pride in abundance. To much that making a deal would have been beneath them. They wanted to be dead right rather than alive at all.
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the idea of a more or less cooperative clan structure and esprit de corps are what sucked me in.
I really like the Blood Kite too
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For me it was a unit name that started it. The Blood Guard Keshik, same name as my SCA Household, House Bloodguard. Then I got into their underdog status and I always love the underdog.
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I think the Lions also went along with the Adders in a hope that they'll get a reward for being good little lapdogs. You scratch my back, etc.
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Doubtful in my opinion, pride goeth before a fall. The Spirits, they had pride in abundance. To much that making a deal would have been beneath them. They wanted to be dead right rather than alive at all.
Definitely. The Spirits were all pride and guts, and a living example of (too?) rigid adherence to the Founder's vision. Mere musings, I know, but I can't help wondering if their demise does not pave the way for extremely deep changes in the Way of the Clans, at least how we understood it till now. ;)
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Definitely. The Spirits were all pride and guts, and a living example of (too?) rigid adherence to the Founder's vision. Mere musings, I know, but I can't help wondering if their demise does not pave the way for extremely deep changes in the Way of the Clans, at least how we understood it till now. ;)
Who knows....it all depends on who the ilClan turns out to be, does it not?
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Who knows....it all depends on who the ilClan turns out to be, does it not?
Meh, on the surface it looks like we're not going to see the homeclans in the DA cycle. Unless the Ilclan book changes the meaning. Also, doesn't Ben Rome still have dibs on the homeworlds? Until the Kurita book is done I think we're on hold and possibly longer.
It does not look like the homeclans figure into the main story line in the near future. My completely speculative guess is the Ilclan will be a likely candidate (Wolf) taking Terra. I'd also say any Homeclan source material will be smaller stuff outside th main plot. They off'd half the factions and all of the more popular clans are either dead or in the IS now. A book about the Coyotes, Cobras, Lions, and Adders is not going to be a high volume item.
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I think the Lions also went along with the Adders in a hope that they'll get a reward for being good little lapdogs. You scratch my back, etc.
I think it was more of a case of the Lions going along with the Adders in the hopes that they wouldn't get absorbed/annihilated before they have a chance to build up their touman to respectable levels.
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I should add that I was hooked by the name too ...
I'm happy that the bloodlines have been preserved (at least I hope they have!). I was kind of annoyed that the Spirit officer corps kinda got stuck in the mud though ... a wee bit of initiative and creativity would have kept them going in all the right ways. But then, they'd Wolf copy-dogs.
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SCA names are always fun. Know a guy named Nicholas Claus with his heraldry being a red field with three farming impliments on it. Three hoes. My own name is a Battletech Referance, its Hans Steiner. I couldn't get a upthrust gauntlet in my arms, but I did get a Fox on it.
Our newest Duke in An Tir is Duke Skegi Newcombe...
I hadn't seen the mods close the thread, oh well. This is the first I've seen this thread.
Anyway, love the spirits for what they stood for and for their I'm never going to give up no matter what attitude. I don't really think if them as Laio in clan space. If they were then they would have won the WoR and been in command of everything.
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here is a question?? how spirit warriors went with the clan invasion in 3050 and did any remain in the inner sphere?? ;) ;)
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Did any go? I don't remember reading about any.
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The Wolf Clan Sourcebook, if I'm remembering right, mentions a former Spirit who was taken as bondsman and granted warrior status.
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STAR CAPTAIN SUMNER JOHNS
Commander of Binary Fighter (3rd Battle Cluster)
Star Captain Sumner Johns is abtakha from Clan Blood Spirit,
who lost a Trial of Refusal to the Wolves twelve years ago . To prove
his fitness for adoption, he faced a grueling Trial of Position during
which he destroyed three Wolf fighters before he was shot down by
a fourth fighter . He lost his right arm in the duel, but holds no grudge
toward Clan Wolf . In fact, he had his prosthetic arm specially
constructed to resemble the forelimb of a wolf, down to the fur and
claws ; only the dextrous fingers are human . His prosthetic arm, and
the fact that he is burly and wears a beard and mustache, has
earned him the alias "Wolfman ." He is an excellent motivator, which
is why his fighter Binary is considered one of the best in the Clans.
For some reason, however, this fine unit failed to see much action
in the invasion.
WCSB pg 89.
He survives Tukayyid but likely is another forgotten charactor in terms of The Narative. he was also an aerospace jock, not a 'mech driver.
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He survived and went with Phelan Kell. And I believe so did Craig Ward, the uber-Warden, I think. Johns is actually a pretty cool minor minor character, considering he was born to the most isolationist Clan and who were known for their Crusader fervor, then he became a Wolf, and either already was a Warden or became one and during the invasion split with the Exiles. That's a pretty good arc, many a major character would envy that track I would think.
It was in the old Falcon and Wolf book.
Would be great to read a story about him.
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I suppose that he plays old rock and roll, too!!! :D
(Kidding, of course. Actually, I will concur that he was a very interesting character. And for those that don't catch the joke, I suspect that "Wolfman" Johns may or may not have been a reference to the DJ "Wolfman Jack" Smith. It could happen.)
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Its entirely possibel the WiE made use of his genetics in there sibkos, if so that might be all that's left of the Spirits in the Inner Sphere.
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Have Mercy! :)) Inspiration takes many forms, but we'll likely never be told if that was the case. :)
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So he was a wolf, not a Spirit.
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You can call a Spirit a Wolf, but a Blood Spirit is still always a Blood Spirit inside. Then again Blood Spirits made horrible Bondsman so maybe he was defective?
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He was certainly a rare figure in Clan history. Exceptions to hard-and-fast rules are often the most interesting parts of a story.
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I guess one could say he was always a Wolf in Spirit. :))
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OK, Today I picked up my mail and inside there was my new project, the Overlord IIc. And we all know which Clan its going to be painted up in right? So what I need is some info, like just what did the Clans actually paint there mechs up like? attached Unit colors, in the same scheme as there warships? Plain battleship grey with just a great honking clan insignia on the side? And what do you guys think would make a good Clan Blood Spirit dropship name? Stop me before I settle on naming it the Spruce Goose or the Howard Hughes.
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Given that the Spirits were formed as the espirit de corps clan... anything that fits that mould would be good. Honourbound, Fateful Unity or somesuch.
Plain grey with the Clan symbol works for me paint-wise.
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Stormlion, I would expect that Dropships would be the same as their naval scheme: bare metal with the clan crest, and the name
painted in red.
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Bare Metal is the way I'm leaning right now though I may have to have a large Blood Spirit Decal made up. I'm a good painter but not that good. Honestly though I have a feeling this may look a little plain painted all up in a bare metal scheme.
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Maybe try giving it a weathered look? Or burns from a dicey re-entry? Rust patches?
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Maybe try giving it a weathered look? Or burns from a dicey re-entry? Rust patches?
Weathering will be what I will be going for. Rust Patches on a Clan ship? Techs would get beaten for letting rust show up on a military dropship. So far the plan is to paint panels in Blood Guard Keshik Colors, particulary the panels for the legs and have panels painted in silver scattered around the hull. After dullcoating the silver will just look like brighter patches all over. Still looking for a good name though. This is going to be a long term project I think. Last Overlord I painted took three weeks of work and that was painted simple grey with a few details.
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DropShip names:
- Unity of Purpose
- Blood of Heroes
- Winds of Destiny
- Red Sunset
- Razor's Edge
- Crimson Veil
... I'll ponder some more.
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Serenity
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Blood Guard
Temple ("We're We are headed back to the Temple, report in 5 mikes")
... or Honor's Temple, Honor's Stand ... lots of stereotypical honor, blood style names to mix and match
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So to get back on track on page 1, WHY does everyone like the Spirits so much?
Randall's short series about theMechwarrior and the Protomech pilot introduced me to the Clan. Prior to that all a clansmen was to me was a target.
I came to like them when I discovered they actually doctrinally practiced combined arms.
After I painted up a few Omicron Provisional Galaxy mechs I got some compliments on the paint scheme. I liked it too, so I kept painting more. Their regimental ability is also decent.
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He survived and went with Phelan Kell. And I believe so did Craig Ward, the uber-Warden, I think. Johns is actually a pretty cool minor minor character, considering he was born to the most isolationist Clan and who were known for their Crusader fervor, then he became a Wolf, and either already was a Warden or became one and during the invasion split with the Exiles. That's a pretty good arc, many a major character would envy that track I would think.
It was in the old Falcon and Wolf book.
Would be great to read a story about him.
Now the writers will nuke him too. :(
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Serenity
The show never really did anything for me. Which is funny because I love westerns and scifi. Appareantly I don't like SciFi Westerns though.
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Now the writers will nuke him too. :(
May I never be the magic divining rod used to decide who gets nuked. That would suck. :'(
Reading through Falcon and Wolf, he appears on the roster for the battle of Sudeten, but not after (his whole trinary disappears from the rolls of the 16th Battle Cluster under Star Colonel Craig Ward).
He (likely) died defending an Inner Sphere freeborn Warden who was allowed to hijack one-third of a Clan by the ilKhan himself. Bet his Bloodhouse never saw that coming when they decided his sibko was a go.
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Well if you look at it from a certain point of view, he would have been a Crusader so there is a good chance he survived and entered into the Jade Wolves and soon after the reborn Wolves but was reassaigned to leading a Sibko or ended up in some Jumpship post that would have taken him out of action. If he had joined the Warden Wolves its entirely possible the same thing could have happened. Taken out of the cockpit and put to some other warrior duty.
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He could have still been a Crusader, but at Sudeten, he was part of Phelan's force. It says that the wounded from Natasha and Ulric's battle groups were sent with Phelan, but nothing about troops going back to be with the main show. Sumner Johns and Trinary Echo disappear from the rosters after that, for all the scenarios, and are not there at the final rosters in the back of either Wolf franchise.
But that does not mean it had to have happened as cut and dry as that. Agreed. Possibility is good, it's the true comfort food of the imagination.
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Stormlion, since you like the puns:
Blood Drop or Blood Drive
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Actually I am beginning to favor not naming it and just a huge hocking number on the side. A big "9", Yep, Dropship Number 9....
OK, no way in a million years.
I was reading a book about Vikings recently and Blood Eagle may be the way to go. Naming a dropship after a method of execution my be interesting. Still not 100% on that name though. Plenty of time to decide, I am still working on the Dropships landing struts right now and next week I go on VK so no work will get done then.
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Well finished the landing struts literally hours before my flight leaves. I decided to paint them in gunmetal with the cables a dark grey that way there not the same color as the mostly metal hull. A decal was made and is ready of the Blood Spirit Logo that is almost perfect. Here is hoping when the time comes I can but it on straight, I never have much luck with decals. When I get home I plan to start painting the Hull of the Overlord IIc with a mix of steel paint with spots of silver and tin to break up the all steel hull. Still thinking of names to use though, Blood Eagle is in the lead, a buddy of mine suggested Blood Knight and Caliburn.
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Please post a pic when you can! :)
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When its finished I plan to post a good picture, right now the only thing I could show you is some. Gunmetal landing struts!
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Stormlion, since you like the puns:
Blood Drop or Blood Drive
What about the Blood Line and the Blood Bank?
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Or... how about Phlebotomy Bay? :D
Blood Eagle is tops, though. Very fitting name for a Blood Spirit combat dropship.
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In a similar vein, what about Bloodknife?
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In a similar vein, what about Bloodknife?
Am I the only one that finds humor in that?
(Sorry for the intrusion, btw, while I'm normally not a Blood Spirit fan, there was a brief moment some years back when I almost wanted them for a third faction, not counting one of the previous board incarnations when I momentarily became one due to a lost match to Swords of Fire. I normally stay out of the threads, but I may follow this one, depending.)
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Well going to take a bit longer to start on the Overlord, the paint I had picked for the Overlord is totally not right so I have to wander on down to the hobby shop this week sometime and pick up a bottle of Steel Paint. I had planned on using a old bottle of Boltgun Metal but apparently I'm out of the stuff so I need to get a bottle of steel paint. Now I just need time to do so, I never seem to have enough time.
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i don't know why they had to mess with the colors...
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Boltgun Metal
ooo... That would have had a nice dark metallic finish. Citadel makes a few similar colors to that but not the same. Luckily I still have almost half a pot left of the old Boltgun Metal. Mithril Silver is too bright to work for everything. Might as well break out the testors silver.
But too bad, that Overlord would have had a nice look to it with the bgm. Especially under a few decals.
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Modelmaster makes a good steel paint I've used before, its duller looking tha BG metal but I plan to buy some of that and use it for a few of the panels as well as testors silver and chrome in spots. Once its all dullcoated they should blend together nicely while not looking like everything is one color.
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Good idea. The brighter shades should make the decals pop, and then look sweet next to the darker panels and sections. The blood drops should look somewhat fresh ;D
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Still looking for a Clan Blood Spirit decal big enough to be worthy of a Overlord IIc. Anybody know where I can get one?
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Still looking for a Clan Blood Spirit decal big enough to be worthy of a Overlord IIc. Anybody know where I can get one?
I've been trying to contact FPG for months to get a custom decal, but they never return my emails, so I wouldn't try that route. If anyone has another source to suggest, I'm all ears!
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the only thing I can think of at the moment is getting an American Red Cross blood drop emblem ... not sure how you'd go about getting a miniature decal though.
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FPG has never returned an e-mail for me so there out and the only option I really have is to hand paint the emblem. Something I'm not sure I can do justice to.
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Doesn't testers have a decal program? I think i have the program and it comes with decals... grab something off the web, copy and print. I don't know if it's that easy or not but it could be.
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or if you could get an inverse cut out of the shape ... get a small picture, cut it out with knife ... then use the paper/stock as a border so you don't over do it
(mind you, I'm at a loss for mini painting or any real artwork)
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OHHHHJJ! A stencil!
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really? I couldn't come up with stencil? ... my brain really does shut off after I'm done teaching for the day. #P
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I was looking on the ground where i park my semi and my truck number was there and i thought!!!! Hanse could use a stencil on his dropper.
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I'll have to practice first but a stencil is a good idea. I've had to go back and strip the landing gears for some reason while I was away the paint I used began to peel so I'm stripping them now and going out to get a new batch of Gunmetal for them.
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that landing gear have given me no end of fits. I can't get them to stay in or line up well enough.
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The landing gear was easy. Gave the metal parts a good dremeling and then made sure the slots were clear by cutting into it a little with a knife then filing it out a tad. Each strut took maybe a minute to clean up and each slot maybe five. Its the painting that takes all the time. I used a nice Gunmetal and the hoses were painted in red or brass for some color. The gunmetal peels though so they need to be repainted.
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wow, I've never had problems with the gunmetal peeling, but then, I tend to dry brush it onto black a lot. But manufactured steel like a Dropship strut is different.
Since they are fluffed to encourage everyone to have personal hobbies in FM: Crusader Clans, the Blood Spirits could well be seen as Clan Miniature and Model Painting. ;)
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Its an old bottle of paint. I think I bought it two years back for some Steel Wolves I did. Its just sat around since then so maybe it broke down?
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Looks like we got some love today at CSO
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6539
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I can't lie, I like the Delphyne. And I especially like the job done with that one. :)
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Sorry for the lack of updates on the Overlord IIc, I still haven't had the oppurtunity to get new paint for the project and honestly I have been working on another project for the last week. The plan is to get the new paints saturday morning and get started probably next week sometime. I should be finished painting the commission by then.
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Hello.
I'm curious as to what during the reavings and the post-reaving period up to their
absorption did the cbs salvage? Meaning what ie factories, orbital facilities, mechs, vehicles, ships etc Did they create any sort of specialist salvage units especially using any raven personel (experienced in it under combat conds) they absorbed or just own (spirit background) from accumilated experience? Did such specialist unit/s remain salvaging during the concluding period offworld from somekind of base or modified salvage oriented vessel/spacestation like the hell horse ship factory/assembly station or the wolf dragoon Hephaestus station dragged around by jumpship or something?
For potential au fic such unit be away long enough on another sort of salvage expedition on the abandoned homeworlds and deep periphery colonies. Come back post 3085 to discover the state of haven and honor. The state, compostion and the size of the unit be upto the creator.
Replies and Opinions positive or negative are both wanted.
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Another curiousity.
Post-3075 what kind composition and size fleet of ships both jump/drop ships did
CBS have at their disposable?
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Tyrannicus, first, have you read the Wars of Reaving? It even has a table that listed all our warships, IIRC.
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what's new with the spirit warrior's??
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Anyone returning to Honor or Haven flying Spirit colors will likely be at the mercy of the Adders patrolling the systems... not a good situation unless the stashed a Black Lion and a galaxy somewhere.
Any AU or canon survivors are better off leaving the shredded ruins of the homeworlds for greener pastures.
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Anyone returning to Honor or Haven flying Spirit colors will likely be at the mercy of the Adders patrolling the systems...
Heh not when I roll in with a division of Klingon D7's 8)
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I doubt the Adders have anyone in system permanetly. Probably just drop by with a warship or well supported jumpship on occasion looking for movement or signals. Which makes me wonder what there keeping an eye out for. Other clans scavenging or Spirit survivors.
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I doubt the Adders have anyone in system permanetly. Probably just drop by with a warship or well supported jumpship on occasion looking for movement or signals. Which makes me wonder what there keeping an eye out for. Other clans scavenging or Spirit survivors.
We're paranoid. It took a lot to make it to the top and we don't want anyone sneaking up on us. Plus technically the systems are Adder holdings since technically the Adders won the trial and absorbed the Spirits. Not that it happened that way but clan history is definitely written by the winner in about as biased a fashion as there can be.
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Remember Ceti Alpha 6! (Revenge of Khan) thats our war cry!
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We Blood Spirits are never more dangerous then when were dead!
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We're paranoid. It took a lot to make it to the top and we don't want anyone sneaking up on us. Plus technically the systems are Adder holdings since technically the Adders won the trial and absorbed the Spirits. Not that it happened that way but clan history is definitely written by the winner in about as biased a fashion as there can be.
It really does not seem practical for the Adders to not rebuild and develop those worlds, and make use of the genetics, even if only in paternal use. I SOOOOOO want to see the long term repercussions of the Absorption.
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We Blood Spirits are never more dangerous then when were dead!
What then? Blood Walkers or Red Wights?
;)
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It really does not seem practical for the Adders to not rebuild and develop those worlds, and make use of the genetics, even if only in paternal use. I SOOOOOO want to see the long term repercussions of the Absorption.
Well Ben Rome's Ilclan teaser on his blog had "the return of khan Boques" with Boques crossed out and Banacek written in. Isn't Boques one of y'alls blood houses?
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I don't think it was a exclusive one though, and that Blog was posted on April Folos day so im giving it next to no faith in it. Even if I did, its essentially a Star Adder Bloodname now unless a bunch of Spirits escaped.
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Boques was exclusive, as far as I know.
I thought he meant the nameless Khan Boques from the Founder's Future section.
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I'm interested in seeing the consequences of the absorption as well they should be intriguing.
I've rereading the lately the clan field manuals and the WOR and have become curious about the
CBS ilchis. As an ambassador did like real-world one have staff, entourage, bodyguards/personal
military unit or an embassey?. Was one more like a CGS seeker with limited entourage of lower castemen ?.
Did one also have members of the Watch with them or was the ilchi trainned by the watch?
Also in regards to the ilchis were the Scorpion, Cloud Cobra or Snow Raven ilchi still alive post
3085 for whatever reason cannon or au?
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Tyrannicus, that is a good question:
Do we know what happened to the ilChi the the Ravens, and did the Cobras have an ilChi assigned to them, and
if so: did the Cobras do a trial with him so he could survive, or did the Adders track him down and kill him?
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The reference to the ilchis ultimate fate made think also about the scientists and techs who the diamond sharks acquired from CBS from the Crimson Hawk project. The spirits are a notrious clan for their warriors beingdifficult bondsmen, often performing ritual suicide. Whilst these lower castemen were acquired via a legael trial with a friendly clan. The attitudes/culture (ie. I am a Blood Spirit) of the warrior caste would be similar in varying ways/degrees in the lower castes. Especially in CBS with the lower caste milita training, huge sibko dropout percentage, option via the tech caste for another trial of position and belief that their clan values them.
Socouldthis group of scientists and techs with milita training be the potential avenue for continue survival of the Spirits. What if the raven ilchi survived? Also this could the be origin of the individual hinted in the Dark Age novel Blood Avatar as possible spirits?
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Lots of " what if's". We'll have to see what the writers do.
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Honestly I expect the ilChi's were just absorbed by there host Clans, and a good bet they were older Bloodnamed warriors as well. Simple as that.
A good possibility that the Snow Raven ilChi also made the trip to the Inner Sphere with that Clan and lost contact soon after and may in fact be the last Blood Spirit out there, though news of what happened to his Clan would make its way to him eventually through the Diamond Sharks. If that happens its almost a given he will be absorbed or killed by the Snow Ravens.
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I would hope absorbed. The Ravens were friends.
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Honestly I expect the ilChi's were just absorbed by there host Clans, and a good bet they were older Bloodnamed warriors as well. Simple as that.
A good possibility that the Snow Raven ilChi also made the trip to the Inner Sphere with that Clan and lost contact soon after and may in fact be the last Blood Spirit out there, though news of what happened to his Clan would make its way to him eventually through the Diamond Sharks. If that happens its almost a given he will be absorbed or killed by the Snow Ravens.
Why would he be killed by the Ravens? Both clans were friends and both were pummelled by the Adders. Keeping him alive would be a way of giving the Adders the finger.
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Something the Ravens would be very happy to do.
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Perception. The Blood Spirits might be seen as one of the root problems back in the Homeworlds and killed out of hand or deliberately targeted. Or another scenario is a ilChi could be killed when news reached the Inner Sphere that the Blood Spirits had fallen and that the Clan and by extension the IlChi were weak. Granted its doubtful as getting a expiernced Bloodnamed MechWarrior/Elemental/Aerospace Pilot could count for a lot after the losses the Ravens had taken after the retreat from the Homeworlds.
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I'm all for giving the Adders the finger ... they seem to have everything going for them (haven't read WoR, so I don't know how 'good' they ended up ... I know they at least ended up good enough to dominate the home world clans).
We need Clan Secretary Bird ... they can simply keep kicking that darn snake in the head until it dies. O0
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I'm all for giving the Adders the finger ... they seem to have everything going for them (haven't read WoR, so I don't know how 'good' they ended up ... I know they at least ended up good enough to dominate the home world clans).
As soon as I get that trans-universe warp gate built they'll pay, ooooohh yes, they'll pay! Mouhahahaha. }:)
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Don't worry I have a feeling someday the Adders will get there's. I'm hoping they try to invade the Inner Sphere through the Ghost Bears territory. They will get slaughtered.
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What if the Adders attack with hundreds warriors bred from Blood Spirit bloodlines?
Would you like to get them slaughtered by the Bears then?
Or would you rather like slaughter Bears with Adder warrior Tom Schmitt?
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Hate to say it, but Blood Spirit bloodlines loyal to the Adder need to die. It would be a mercy killing. Besides the chances of the Adders making use of hated Blood Spirit bloodlines is still pretty low. More of a chance of the other surviving clans trialing for those bloodlines the of the Adders making use of them.
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Have no fear, I saw 0 Blood Spirit Bloodlines in WoR that the Adder had activated.
I can be totally wrong (fear of being wrong is a major impediment to enlightenment, so that's cool to me), but I would bet that the Adders simply will never use nor let anyone else use the Blood Spirit lines, either. The "Absorbed" Spirits are effectively Annihilated because that's demanded by the Adder's agenda.
So let's see... Absorb the officially "Annihilated" Bloodlines, check. (They own the Andrews line... tell me a line in more desperate need of Annihilation, and I'll tell you once more about the Andrews line)
Destroy what the Grand Council would only vote to allow the Adders to Absorb, check.
So the Adders liked to accuse the Blood Spirits of putting their Clan's needs above those of everyone else? Wow, that's Interesting!
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Besides the chances of the Adders making use of hated Blood Spirit bloodlines is still pretty low. More of a chance of the other surviving clans trialing for those bloodlines the of the Adders making use of them.
Yup. The Adders genetics situation doesn't look that bad in WoRS (comparatively). They have a lot of viable legacies. The Spirit legacies are perfect trade fodder. The Cobras and Lions both could and would use them. Legacies are worth a ton too. I bet you could get a mech factory for one. I always liked the Nova Cat. Oh scaly brethren I've got a deal for you!
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Let's not steer this to the Adders/Spirits hypocrisy thing again. Read FM: C objectively some time and you'll find the Adders and Spirits are actually very similar in quite a bit of their ideology. The Adders are just political butterflies and the Spirits are isolationists. They both are guilty of a lot of the same bending of clan law over the years. I'd say very few other clans have such a tight bond among castes either. I always found it very ironic that thy became mortal enemies.
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Yup. The Adders genetics situation doesn't look that bad in WoRS (comparatively). They have a lot of viable legacies. The Spirit legacies are perfect trade fodder. The Cobras and Lions both could and would use them. Legacies are worth a ton too. I bet you could get a mech factory for one. I always liked the Nova Cat. Oh scaly brethren I've got a deal for you!
IMHO the Homeclans will increase the trading / exchange of blood legacies so that there will be less exclusive bloodnames left when they finally will reappear.
The Spirit`s legacies are far too good but to get ignored by the pragmatic Adders.
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Except for the part where the Star Adders blew up the Blood Spirit's genetic legacies with orbital fire.
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They did not destroy the genetic repository on Strana Mechty.
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They did not destroy the genetic repository on Strana Mechty.
Doing that would get all the Clans to attack the Star Adders. That's where all the master legacys are kept. Except for the Kerensky ones that is, for some reason the Wolves never let Nicky K's to be kept there. ;)
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Doing that would get all the Clans to attack the Star Adders. That's where all the master legacys are kept. Except for the Kerensky ones that is, for some reason the Wolves never let Nicky K's to be kept there. ;)
They did. They just remembered to steal all the samples away.
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Except for the part where the Star Adders blew up the Blood Spirit's genetic legacies with orbital fire.
Technically, they dropped a mountain on them. They may still be viable under the rocks and rubble.
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True, which is why I think the Adders keep an eye on the Colleen system. There afraid someone will go in and dig them out.
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True, which is why I think the Adders keep an eye on the Colleen system. There afraid someone will go in and dig them out.
The South Spirits shall rise again!
;)
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Let's not steer this to the Adders/Spirits hypocrisy thing again. Read FM: C objectively some time and you'll find the Adders and Spirits are actually very similar in quite a bit of their ideology. The Adders are just political butterflies and the Spirits are isolationists. They both are guilty of a lot of the same bending of clan law over the years. I'd say very few other clans have such a tight bond among castes either. I always found it very ironic that thy became mortal enemies.
Fair enough about the old hypocrisy arguments. What's done is done.
And also, absolutely, it struck me the same way too, right off the bat that the two Clans that could have gotten along as well as Wolf/Coyote happened to be the Adders and Spirits. Their agendas meshed perfectly. I misused agenda above in my other response, I also meant philosophy. It's the Adders thing to avenge all insults and not to allow their true enemies to survive. For example, if the Jags didn't get the Mongeese, I feel it's safe to say the Adders would have. (Now that would be a cool AU battle to run to see the results, IF the Mongoose force was known, or at least, set up in the spirit of fairness and as close to accuracy as possible 8) )
In the post-Reaving era, we have a few new Not-Named Clans, the examples of failure of the Clan Way. But failure in this instance has multiple meanings, as varied as the Clans that perished. The Blood Spirits are one of them, and the most recent. It was the one that tells the surviving Clans what happens to those who put themselves above the Clans. The Vipers were worse, obviously, but the Spirit Absorption, while not an Annihilation, still has that kind of gravity; a strong cautionary tale, and a tale of Clan law and consequences.
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Honestly, I really think that if the Adders had negotiated a Contract Bid with the Spirits for the Burrocks, the feud
might not have happened. The SOLE reason for the feud between the Spirits and the Adders was the Absorption
War over the Burrocks. If the Spirits had come through that well, and had not had to spend all that time fighting
the Adders on York, how much better would they have come out of the Wars of Reaving? Would they have needed
to have pressed Civilians into service to fight in the Colleen System? Would they have stayed isolationist, or would
they have finally, without the loss in resources of constant Burrock raiding, have finally been able to break out of York?
Heck, with even some of the Burrocks as Warriors and some of the Burrock resources gained through a contract bid with
the Adders, how much stronger would the Spirits have been?
Ultimately, I think the fate of the Blood Spirits was sealed by both their and the Adder's hubris at the Burrock Absorption.
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I think so too; a well reasoned approach to take some of the enclaves on Albion would have had some hope of succeeding and would have scored some great gains for the Clan, and yes, totally would have left them with a great setup.
My favorite Blood Spirit is Troy Boques. Precisely because during the worst years of the Wars of Reaving, he did break out of the shell and pulled the Spirits along with him. They were gathering up survivors and doing more or less the opposite of the Vipers in absorbing all the remnants they could. They were becoming everything that the Blood Spirit Clan was meant to be and it was cool to root for them.
Could you imagine if they could have kept 90% or more of Tokasha, as well as the Barcella, Vinton, Paxon enclaves that they snatched up? I was imagining it when I first read it. Then Brett Andrews ruined everything, like usual. And he was the ultimate hypocrite.
And yeah, it all goes back to the Absorption. That was the critical moment and everything else is an echo of it.
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And yeah, it all goes back to the Absorption. That was the critical moment and everything else is an echo of it.
Actually, as much as I hate to say it, but I think Karianna Schmitt as our Khan was the biggest disaster in the long term
for us. She is the one who pushed the Absorbtion War. She is the one who's blind rage ultimately lead us down the path
to destruction. I agree that Troy Boques almost saved us. I could almost imagine he was trying to get to a position of
strength to negotiate with the Star Adders as a one reasonable Khan to another.
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Neither Adders nor Spirits were willing to do the first step in bringing themselves to the other.
Too much macho, to less common sense.
I still hope for a Turning Point dealing with the Adder-Spirit conflict, in one of the last Battlechats Herb mentioned if they are to do sourcebooks about Clan conflicts it is going to be Operational TPs. That would be very appreciated.
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One of the biggest stumbling blocks to normalizing relations was the Adders Occupation of a hunk of York. If they had just raided or staged a Trial for Something tangible and then just left I could have seen the conflict settle back into a grudge that would have been a nice long term thing. But the Adders felt the need to "punish" the Spirits for interfering with the Burrock Absorption. But by occupying York, a place every other Clan left alone they took a grudge to outright hate. I don't think the Spirits even had such a hate for the Adders when they won the absorption, but really gained it when the Adders came to York.
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If we want to talk about hypothetical ways to prevent the feud, how about staying out of the absorption. Then trialing for stuff afterwards. The Adder touman would have been a bit beat up and the Spirits could have grabbed some low hanging fruit with honest trials. Then you'd have the Spirits on friendly terms with the Cobras already as a nice road for friendly relations with the Adders.
This of course all requires the Spirits to swallow their pride, which ain't them at all. I like the way they were fluffed out better. It was a dangerous game from the start. They were fine to fortress York and stay out of the way, but when they started messing with other clans their indiscretions were too many.
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Frankly, I really think that the Blood Spirits story was one of the best told tragedies in BattleTech. It all, ultimately,
makes sense. You can see where our hubris was working us towards our end. It makes me wonder how the Adders'
Hubris will work for them? It would be beautiful if it was the Stone Lions that bring about the Adder' fall...
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Let's not steer this to the Adders/Spirits hypocrisy thing again. ...
Well to keep it IC and hypocritical I only need to think back to one of my favorite Star Trek episodes (not a fair statement, most I would consider 'favorites') ... you see the Star Adders have Black on the right side of their face and White on the left side, That means they are obviously inferior and should be exterminated because a True Clanner has White on the right side of their face and black on the left side!!!!
and to be a true heretic I'm going to mix in one more setting
Hand Wave they joined with the Dark Side, that's the only reason they were able to defeat us!
Back to OoC: I think the Spirits and Adders were way to alike to get along, possibly at one time there was a competitive rivalry ... but that got out of hand (oh wait ... it was the damn Burrocks!)
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Regards the production team/scientists transferred to the Diamond Sharks, I would point out that the name of the site was the NEW YORK facility. And it sure wasn't on Earth. Sounds like someone's giving a salute to a remnant of the Spirits, even if they're Sharks now, and that the deal was made as a 'fling a light into the future' because Schmitt knew how it was going to end. So in the same vein as the Wolverine scientists slipping their genes into the Bears in an attempt to at least have SOME descendants, somehow, the Spirits may have decided that some kind of future in Spirit was worth no future in name.
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The only thing the adders and spirits have in common is they are both clans. They are nothing alike.
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Both proposed more unity among the Clans and knew that only united efforts would make the Invasion a success.
Both respect their civilian castes.
Both are willing to fight and die for their convictions.
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The only thing the adders and spirits have in common is they are both clans. They are nothing alike.
Actual fluff disagrees with you. They are the two clans that are both stated to think Kerensky's vision involved all the people of the clans working together to regain Terra. The Spirits got mad when no one listened to them and took their ball and went home. The Adders got mad when no one listened to them and proceeded to usurp, bludgeon, manipulate, ortillery, Hulk Smash, and generally eliminate their opposition to prove their point.
As of FM:C they have similar ideology. They go about it differently.
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The wolverines tried to do encompass every one in their clan and treat them well also. Look where that got them.
The difference is the Spirits only took their ball and when home ofter years of being spit upon and treated like shit.
The Adders never had that. They never tried to do anything until the big boys were gone. They acted just like the serpents they are and turned on the clan that helped them clear out all the other IS clans or the clans that wanted to leave.
They're very burrock like if you ask me.
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Technically, they dropped a mountain on them. They may still be viable under the rocks and rubble.
Exactly. Now, someone go get a shovel.
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Hengist, we are not going to agree. I'm going to concede the point in order to preserve the thread. This is going down a familiar road that ends with this thread getting locked and I don't want to be part of that happening again.
Apologies I upset any of the Spirit fans.
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The Blood Spirits are the epitome of "Sour Grapes". They were given a job by Kerensky and they went out and did that job promoting Espirit de Corp among the Clans. A job they did even when it was unpopular. They were one of the few Clans that tried to support the Wolverines, they gave away mechs, troops, and supplies. They did everything but give away the kitchen sink and there reward was to be raided, kicked, and essentially marginalized by the bulk of the Clans. Is it any wonder they folded up and went home? And even then one Clan, the Burrocks wouldn't leave them alone so when the time came the Spirits thought that they, and only they should have the right to absorb them. But the problem was that after so long (And even for the smallest Clan they were pretty powerful in Galaxy's, even if they were older machines) they just didn't have the strength. The main root though is that in their formative years they did the job Kerensky himself gave them too well.
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The trans-universe warp gate is finished!
Any day now, retribution will swoop down, oh yes. }:) 8)
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/CBS1.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/TopSergeant/media/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/CBS1.jpg.html)
Yes! YES!!
I warned them! Now, after one hell of a Trial of Possession, retribution comes screaming in at warp speed!
A B10 Battleship, C9 Dreadnaught, and a pair of D7 Heavy Cruisers, all in Clan Blood Spirit colors. 8)
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suh-weet! ... If this thread is going to 'degenerate' into "We Hate the Adders ... and the Subtractors!" (hah math pun! I kill me!) ... going with a Klingon Battle group is A+
Disruptors, Drones and Phasers, Oh My!
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Degeneration into "Hate the Adders" was not the intent-- note I never mentioned them-- just a 'power up' for my favorite Clan.
And also making good on comments I've been making here for several months! :D :)
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No no, it's ok y'all, hate on. As of ER3145 the Davions are getting crotch kicked. We're the only boring common sense faction that everyone hates left. Hate us while we're still worth hating...
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No no, it's ok y'all, hate on. As of ER3145 the Davions are getting crotch kicked. We're the only boring common sense faction that everyone hates left. Hate us while we're still worth hating...
What makes you think you are still around in 3145? For all we know, the Homeworlds Clans have all died off to a last gasp bioweapon
of the Society that was delayed for years...
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What makes you think you are still around in 3145? For all we know, the Homeworlds Clans have all died off to a last gasp bioweapon
of the Society that was delayed for years...
I was referring to the real life book. I have no clue of the Adders are around in 3145. The next round of source for the homeworlds should some it up.
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I was referring to the real life book. I have no clue of the Adders are around in 3145. The next round of source for the homeworlds should some it up.
Yes. Since nothing was said about the Homeworlds in ER3145, we do not know the status of the Adders. So, assuming that you
are the only "boring, common sense faction that everyone hates left," especially when the Davions are still around, just on the
ropes...
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My poor Federated Suns...
Only one thing to do to cheer me up! Kill Adders! :)
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Top! Those are freekin awesome!
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No no, it's ok y'all, hate on. As of ER3145 the Davions are getting crotch kicked. We're the only boring common sense faction that everyone hates left. Hate us while we're still worth hating...
Well you seem to be brain-washed.
Star Adders are neither boring nor hated by everyone.
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Degeneration into "Hate the Adders" was not the intent-- note I never mentioned them-- just a 'power up' for my favorite Clan.
And also making good on comments I've been making here for several months! :D :)
oh, not you ... previous post where there was a warning about getting the thread closed. I thought bringing in the Klingons was solid approach to thread preservation and DEATH BY DISRUPTORS! >:D
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The threads not getting closed any time soon. I wish we could get the name changed though.
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The threads not getting closed any time soon. I wish we could get the name changed though.
What do you think is wrong with the name?
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The Blood Spirits folding right after the War of Reaving waxed a bit poetic to me. They symbolized the bond between the original 800 warriors of the Star League. Their annihilation at the end of it was ironically proclaiming an end of a culture.
Who knows whats out there now?
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The threads not getting closed any time soon. I wish we could get the name changed though.
44 more pages and your wish will come true!
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... I wish we could get the name changed though.
Clan Blood Spirit Enclave: Passing Gas
Clan Blood Spirit Enclave: Shakers of the Fist
... I'm out of ideas, around 3:30 EST my brain looses speed ... it's now 7:30 EST or so, definitely out of gas (hah! get it?!)
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Clan Blood Spirit: Live from the snake skin boot factory
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We do have 44 pages before we have to worry about it, though, you know..I think we should pick a title from Dragonforce for the next thread...I am torn between "Heroes of our time" or "Operation Ground and Pound" ;)
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"Heroes of our time" ;)
I like this one!
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The Spirits didn't pass through the flames. We were consumed by them. Also, nkt 44 pages. This thread was started way before the 50 page mark.
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Yeah there was a little screw up with page count which was why the new thread was started early.
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Huzzah! It has been changed!
It does feel better in here now. Well done!
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any ideas on new spirit aerospace ,elemental armor, omnimechs or even warship/jumpships?? :)
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any ideas on new spirit aerospace ,elemental armor, omnimechs or even warship/jumpships?? :)
Sure, plenty of that stuff. Just look at plans floating around on semidead worlds in the Colleen system gripped by skeletal Blood Spirit fingers.
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Love the new name.
Sure, plenty of that stuff. Just look at plans floating around on semidead worlds in the Colleen system gripped by skeletal Blood Spirit fingers.
Yet another fine example of Clan economy and their eschewing of waste.
Well done, Home Clans, well done. I mean, that is if one likes their Blood Spirits well-done.
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I can totally see the Blood Spirits as part of some ancient AD&D empire that fought hard and long ... in the end were betrayed and now our undead armies are legions of skeleton shock troops lead by Liches. Not quite Lawful Evil, definitely Lawful Neutral.
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Yep. O0 And when their betrayer and the descendants of their betrayer are all dead, they get to finally rest. Until then, they are relentless in their pursuit of vengeance.
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I've said it before and I will say it again. I truly believe that some Blood Spirits escaped and are out there. Maybe there part of the Green Ghosts or they show up in a Dark Age novel, but I believe there out there and the Blood Spirits will rise again. And they will avenge the Clan on the Adders.
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Well, you know what the best way to fight Adders is. Combined arms - they're a force multiplier!
...yeah, I'll get my hat.
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I've said it before and I will say it again. I truly believe that some Blood Spirits escaped and are out there. Maybe there part of the Green Ghosts or they show up in a Dark Age novel, but I believe there out there and the Blood Spirits will rise again. And they will avenge the Clan on the Adders.
It would be enough for any surviving Blood Spirits to play some linchpin role in either their demise or having to swallow their pride wholesale.
I could also go for a seat on the sidelines watching them get taken down.
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Here's the thing. Ben keeps saying the Spirits are deqd as a clan. I believe him. We were also told rhe Burrocks were gone as a clan and the dark caste was just a bunch of enclaves barely surviving by scrounging off clan society... then the WoR hit and the Burrocks arose from underground once again.
The Jags are dead but there seem to be clusters upon clusters working for every one and their mother.
I'll wait and give judgement at another time.
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I'm fairly sure our time as a viable clan is at an end. It does not, however, mean that the Blood Spirits can't have a say on what goes on in the BTU.
BAH ... that's way to reasonable and sensible, "Intensify forward batteries, I don't want anything to get through!" #P
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Here's the thing. Ben keeps saying the Spirits are deqd as a clan. I believe him. We were also told rhe Burrocks were gone as a clan and the dark caste was just a bunch of enclaves barely surviving by scrounging off clan society... then the WoR hit and the Burrocks arose from underground once again.
The Jags are dead but there seem to be clusters upon clusters working for every one and their mother.
I'll wait and give judgement at another time.
I always found it hilarious that every unit out there has a Smoke Jag pilot on the rolls somewhere. Most those without Bloodnames but the 2nd Star League sure failed on that account! So yes, I truly believe that Blood Spirits are out there, gathering there strength, and yes, preparing for there day in the sun...
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Here's the thing. Ben keeps saying the Spirits are deqd as a clan. I believe him.
Why should it matter what he says. Catalyst just writes the books, the game is ours to play. So if we all like the Blood Spirits we can just ignore the whole Wars of Reaving Lunacy and do our own thing. Official canon only matters for tournaments and competitive play. Personally I just won't use the official timeline unmodified past the late 3050s.
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Well, theres one other thing thats important about the canon disposition of things, its the common ground that players come together from. Sure, every game naturally diverges to one degree or another, but canon is useful as a starting point and as a common base of knowlege between players.
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Very True, but there are hints that Spirit survivors are out there. With the Green Ghosts, hiding on a world in the RoTS, maybe even the core of the new bandit caste.
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Why should it matter what he says. Catalyst just writes the books, the game is ours to play. So if we all like the Blood Spirits we can just ignore the whole Wars of Reaving Lunacy and do our own thing. Official canon only matters for tournaments and competitive play. Personally I just won't use the official timeline unmodified past the late 3050s.
Because i like to follow the story line. I enjoy what's happened up to this point. I do play my games as i like them. I have always been a proponent of playing in the era you want and if i want to play a Spirit force then i play Spirits. If i want to play SL era i play SL era. If i want to use a wolverine force against the cappies i do. It doesn't matter to me.
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I still hold out hope that the Blood Spirits found another world in the deep periphery cloaked in a dust nebula (maybe in Kerensky's Cloak, that would be hilarious) and they have all the time they need deep in their protective cocoon.
Kind of odd, but I wasn't a big Sprits fan until the Wars of Reaving. The whole story, including their "end", transformed me into a fan.
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Huzzah! It has been changed!
It does feel better in here now. Well done!
I don't know how many times I skimmed through the last page here, but I just noticed that the title had been changed ... one of those "Oh yeah, look at that" moments
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The old title just didn't suit the sheer awesomeness of the Blood Spirits. For those with a interest, the Clan Overlord precedes nicely. I have repainted four of the landing struts and painted half of the dropship in Steel colored paint. For some reason after a few weeks of just sitting there, I started work last night and got almost half of it finished now. If I can keep myself working like this I should be done in a few days. Still haven't found a good Blood Spirit Decal yet. As of this moment I don't think it will have one. Just the steel body and the name and a registry number.
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The old title just didn't suit the sheer awesomeness of the Blood Spirits.
Also, strangely enough, there are a number of metal and rock fans in the Blood Spirits, and, you know Epic Song Titles
of Epicness really work for a clan that's down fall, while not a major storyline section, was actually rather Epic.
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Also, the passing through the flames bit, that's a Nova Cat thing. Must have something Blood Spirit oriented here.
Good to hear the Overlord is coming along nicely.
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Also, the passing through the flames bit, that's a Nova Cat thing. Must have something Blood Spirit oriented here.
When I made the thread title, I was seeing it as something hopeful. Since we now knew what happened in the Wars Of Reaving to the Spirits, I wanted to show a hope for some Spirits surviving the Absorption and carrying on in a different way of life while acknowledging the tragedy.
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You know I do wonder how many Blood Spirit warriors and civilians did survive the fall of the Clan and were absorbed by the Adders, Stone Lions, and the Coyotes? Probably a good bet the Coyotes and the Stone Rhinos may have taken some of there captured civvies when they withdrew from the Colleen system and before the Absorbtion vote. Im not seeing a lot of the warriors but its possible a few cvivvies would have survived and at least one jumpship full of Blood Spirits did make its way to the Inner Sphere to return Lorenzo to the Diamond Sharks.
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You know I do wonder how many Blood Spirit warriors and civilians did survive the fall of the Clan and were absorbed by the Adders, Stone Lions, and the Coyotes? Probably a good bet the Coyotes and the Stone Rhinos may have taken some of there captured civvies when they withdrew from the Colleen system and before the Absorbtion vote. Im not seeing a lot of the warriors but its possible a few cvivvies would have survived and at least one jumpship full of Blood Spirits did make its way to the Inner Sphere to return Lorenzo to the Diamond Sharks.
Given the mood of the Spirits, warriors and civilians alike, at the end, I doubt that any of them were taken as bondsmen. It was so unclanlike, a different form of being "Tainted" that noe wanted any of them.
Total Annihilation :-[
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Given the mood of the Spirits, warriors and civilians alike, at the end, I doubt that any of them were taken as bondsmen. It was so unclanlike, a different form of being "Tainted" that noe wanted any of them.
Total Annihilation :-[
I think it was more a " no other clan is worthy to be a part of" than no one wanted them.
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My AU game starts up again this coming weekend with the Blood Spirits tracking down a Society Cell, doing one last clean-up before they leave Clan space and vicinity forever. Not to mention, they need to scavenge everything they've got.
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When I made the thread title, I was seeing it as something hopeful. Since we now knew what happened in the Wars Of Reaving to the Spirits, I wanted to show a hope for some Spirits surviving the Absorption and carrying on in a different way of life while acknowledging the tragedy.
I understand that. I like to hope they've somehow defied death too. I kept hoping they were going to escape the Homeworlds.
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I think it was more a " no other clan is worthy to be a part of" than no one wanted them.
And they were right really. In truth the spirits were the only ones who did keep true to the original aims of the Clans. They'd been rebuffed and disdained by most of the other clans so long any reconciliation was no longer possible. Then there's the fact that the other Clans had changed considerably over time and in ways that didn't necessarily mesh with what they'd perceived since the Founding as the Way Things Should Be. And despite that they kept trying to form ties between the other Clans and get them working together.
Honestly I was surprised as the storyline went on that they didn't pull up stakes and head for somewhere on the other side of the IS from the Clan Homeworlds.
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is there any possiblilty of the clan in creating new blood names due to all the damage they have taken lately?? :) :)
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Well, since the Blood Spirits are dead, technically no, there's no possibility :)
I doubt they really run into anyone not eligible for an existing Bloodname that would do enough to deserve having a Bloodname created.
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If (and it's stretching the two letters that comprise the word) the Spirits did survive, I would bet they wash their hands of Clan monkey business altogether. What has it ever brought them but suffering and misery?
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If (and it's stretching the two letters that comprise the word) the Spirits did survive, I would bet they wash their hands of Clan monkey business altogether. What has it ever brought them but suffering and misery?
Since when has logic or critical thinking ever burdened the Clans? ;D
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Since when has logic or critical thinking ever burdened the Clans? ;D
oooof... right in the gut. Correct, logic and the Clans don't get along very well at all. :D
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Since when has logic or critical thinking ever burdened the Clans? ;D
Once again.... Top hit the nail in the head with undeniable logic. O0
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About the only real chance for the Spirit Bloodnames to survive requires that the Coyotes and the other Clans trial for them as I doubt the Star Adders will willingly recreate former Blood Spirits Bloodhouses themselves. I could see the other Clans doing so in order to increase the number of Bloodnames within their Clans. But I could also see that being done with other lost clans as well.
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Weren't we the least hit by the Scientist caste tempering? I thinks Kerianna Schmitt's BL had some anger issues throw in... or it could just have been environmental.
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Coleen Schmitt had rage issues too, so I think it's probably the whole line. I hate to bring up logic again in a Clan discussion, but you'd think that would have been ideal for a Clanner. ???
Didn't that Adders bombard the Spirit's genetic repository and bury it? I guess there's always the blood chapels and labs on Strana Mechty.
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Coleen Schmitt had rage issues too, so I think it's probably the whole line. I hate to bring up logic again in a Clan discussion, but you'd think that would have been ideal for a Clanner. ???
Focused anger yes, rage no.
Didn't that Adders bombard the Spirit's genetic repository and bury it? I guess there's always the blood chapels and labs on Strana Mechty.
Yeah. You'd think they'd want to use whatever genes they could.
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Weren't we the least hit by the Scientist caste tempering?
It would appear so from WoR. Isolationism meant little chance for Spirit scientists to interact with other clans and less Society influence, it makes sense.
The Adders pragmatic nature is definitely Challeneged by not using viable and clean Spirit legacies. They should at least have grabbed them up to trade them. They are an extremely valuable commodity post Reaving.
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Yeah. You'd think they'd want to use whatever genes they could.
Not after their experiences with the Burrocks since the Absorption War. Conquered Blood = Bad Blood
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But they are still using them. And they made sure to snatch up the Andrews and other Steel Viper Legacies. An exercise in asymmetrical Annihilation tactics; in this case, trying to Annihilate them through active use in their breeding program. ???
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this will a bit of a stretch but if you had a few exceptional freebirth warriors they could use to refresh current blood lines or createnew ones :) :)
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the Spirit's did have contact with the fire mandrills and the snow raven so i guess there is a little wiggle room but logic and critical thinking who knows what might happen :D ^-^
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There are master genetic legacys on Strana Mechty so when the Spirits were absorbed those legacys became Star Adder Legacys. The repository in the Colleen System wasn't needed at that point. The Star Adders will probably use those for some trade and may in a few generations use them in there own programs.
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Not after their experiences with the Burrocks since the Absorption War. Conquered Blood = Bad Blood
But there were surviving Burrocks from the Absorbtion who passed along the secrets/history along to the
next generation. The Adders would know there was no such thing for the Spirits.
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There are master genetic legacys on Strana Mechty so when the Spirits were absorbed those legacys became Star Adder Legacys. The repository in the Colleen System wasn't needed at that point. The Star Adders will probably use those for some trade and may in a few generations use them in there own programs.
A Sea Fox trader obtains a good selection of them, then trades them to someone in the Inner Sphere. A strange new novel ensues....
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I'm broes at work. Think I'll have a resource trial on some adders. I'm bringin my flashbulb, who's in?
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I'll be brave and take either a Blood Kite or even a Victor -9B (C), as long as I can use the spare two tons for something (HS, AMS, ECM, 6 MG's, etc)
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You can never go wrong with a Warhawk or to a lesser extant a Dire Wolf.
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You can never go wrong with a Warhawk or to a lesser extant a Dire Wolf.
Is this the Smoked Kitty thread???? ;)
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Dire Wolf shows up in the Blood Spirit RAT and come on, the Warhawk is a pure death machine. One every clan should have plenty of. Except the Star Adders, there not worthy of Warhawk awesomeness.
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Wow! O0
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Dire Wolf shows up in the Blood Spirit RAT and come on, the Warhawk is a pure death machine. One every clan should have plenty of. Except the Star Adders, there not worthy of Warhawk awesomeness.
Why buy 4/6 assaults from somewhere else, we build our own. }:)
I love the Warhawk, but I'd rather a Blood Asp any day.
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I like Blood Kites and Marauder IIC's for assaults. :)
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Dire Wolf shows up in the Blood Spirit RAT and come on, the Warhawk is a pure death machine. One every clan should have plenty of. Except the Star Adders, there not worthy of Warhawk awesomeness.
I prefer the Kingfisher as an assault, though, I do have a Warhawk in my own trinary.....it's job is crippling Blood Asps...
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eh, i just use crimson hawk to take out Blood asps. Why use anything more for that task.
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eh, i just use crimson hawk to take out Blood asps. Why use anything more for that task.
Because...sometimes you miss with the 2 Heavy Larges?
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Oh sure, spoil my fun ;)
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Oh sure, spoil my fun ;)
Dude, you got Blood Kites galore for fighting other assaults. That would be where I'd go. My current little mini MM campaign's binary has one, it might be the best second line assault there is (arguably).
Crimson Hawks pack a punch but it is awful hard to out maneuver a 5/8 heavy or 4/6/X (Blood Asp A) assault with one. I'd rather fight a faster lightly armored light with the Hawk.
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Who said i would use just one? }:)
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Who said i would use just one? }:)
A point of Heavy Medium Rocs are better..
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A point of Heavy Medium Rocs are better..
Now you're thinking like Blood Spirits!
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MAD IIC with 3 ER PPC's is just plain perfect
Not that I want to start writer or IS bashing, but hey this is a Blood Spirit Thread ... and we're not Whiny like those Ice Tantrums ... Temper Hellions ... what ever they are.
I love the Blood Kite, it was one of the first mini's I ever put together (I'm not a painter though ... so 'Out of package grey' is what it is).
back to whining ... er, legitimate rage! ... Really a DC No-Dachi (I think) was able to charge and sword us? ... I mean, we have 9 weapons with NO minimum range. Even with bracket fire I would have downed that thing from 15+ hexes out.
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All I know is the Blood Kite is a killer design, a Star of them is worth any other Star of Omnimech's out there. How it is considered a Second Line design, I will never know.
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Now you're thinking like Blood Spirits!
He's thinkin like a proto pilot.
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He's thinkin like a proto pilot.
I'm sorry that's not always a good thing.
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They certainly have a fast-paced and interesting career.
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I have only just begun trying out Proto's this last year, or maybe its two years. Useful units but I honestly think the resources could have been used to build more mechs or aerospace support. But that's just me and its the only policy I never agreed the Blood Spirits should have fallen back on.
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All I know is the Blood Kite is a killer design, a Star of them is worth any other Star of Omnimech's out there. How it is considered a Second Line design, I will never know.
Seconded!
Clan logic dude. If it ain't omni it ain't the best. I'm willing to bet a whole bunch of Adder warriors learned to respected the Kite, or died lacking that respect.
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All I know is the Blood Kite is a killer design, a Star of them is worth any other Star of Omnimech's out there. How it is considered a Second Line design, I will never know.
It's not...It is considered a front line design. That is why I tend to refer to non-OmniMechs as "Conventional 'Mechs" as
opposed to "Second Line 'Mechs" like most Clan Players do. Face it, the Blood Spirits used more Conventional 'Mechs in
their front lines, and put their OmniMechs more in their second line. ANd it makes sense: Conventional 'Mechs are going
to be less expensive to replace, and one is going to want more flexibility for defensive forces then you need for on the
attack.
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For those with a interest, all the dropship legs have been repainted and the dropship has a nice steel paint coat over everything. The Overlord IIc has a registry number "2062" painted over one of the Aerospace Launch bays and on the other side "Blood Eagle" painted over the other Launch bay. Only thing left is to glue the legs into place and give it a dullcoat and the dropship will be done! Only bad part is the glue I used is still a bit tacky so I can't take any pics until it dullcoated.
Also no Blood Spirit logo's, I tried several times to paint one and it fell short each time. :-[
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Seconded!
Clan logic dude. If it ain't omni it ain't the best. I'm willing to bet a whole bunch of Adder warriors learned to respected the Kite, or died lacking that respect.
Once... they misjudged once. That's all it takes.
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Once... they misjudged once. That's all it takes.
Worse is someone misjudging the Blood Kite...and finding themselves facing the Blood Kite 2.(I am still kind of on
the fence about that one, though...it lacks the awesome 'I have both side torsos shot off but can still fire my
center line weapons!' power of the Blood Kite...)
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I did a Trial of Possession with both Blood Kite variants and three Stooping Hawk variants against an assault star of Jaguar 'mechs (Dire Wolf A, Warhawk C, Ebon Jaguar B, Executioner C, and a Stormcrow Prime) and positively blasted them to smithereens. Didn't lose a single duel. The headcapping ability of the BK 2 really shone out during that match.
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I'm loving that there are 2 blood spirit threads right now lol.
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I'm loving that there are 2 blood spirit threads right now lol.
RAWR!! O0
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I'm loving that there are 2 blood spirit threads right now lol.
Huh? What?
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Huh? What?
*bonk Mara on the head*
This one :)
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,29028.0.html
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*bonk Mara on the head*
This one :)
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,29028.0.html
Ah..that's why I didn't see it...I don't look in general discussion much...(Actually..I usually look at 'Unread posts since last visit'
and only the first page of that. If it falls off, I likely won't see it..)
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Clan Blood Spirit, only dead Clan that gets more popular when their dead.
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Yeah. They are some rockstars. Though it helps that they weren't being complete jerks when they died.
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Clan Blood Spirit, only dead Clan that gets more popular when their dead.
You know...I actually do find that amusing. I mean, how many threads have the OTHER LIVE CLANS
had since the forums restart? How many have we had?
Yeah. They are some rockstars. Though it helps that they weren't being complete jerks when they died.
Bury us standing, quiaff?
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I dunno. Clan Blood Spirit was pretty popular even before they died off. It just seems to have kept on, rather than dying off.
Of course, it helps that they have some damned cool units and can pretty much use whatever they want :)
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Were on the third or maybe fourth iteration of Blood Spirit thread I think.
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The way they were shown in the Wars of Reaving won them fans. Then it was too late and they were gone. Their Annihilation being voted down to an Absorption gave a last bit of false hope, but the Adders knew that light for what it was (functional warships have good scanners, something the Spirits might have forgotten) and made sure it was dead, too.
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Clan Blood Spirit, only dead Clan that gets more popular when their dead.
They went out like champs, I loved them more after WoR came out even though they were killed off. There is a reason that the Cluff remains my avatar, he's a straigt-up boss.
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Were on the third or maybe fourth iteration of Blood Spirit thread I think.
A heck of a lot more than some "other" clans ;)
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And less than others ::) ;)
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Kind of a shame that the Spirits are dead and becoming more popular because of it... O:-)
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The Blood Spirits are a classic tragedy.
They're a group of people who were supposed to embody the spirit of cooperation amd fellowship.
This leads to them getting exploited...so they withdraw into themselves and become super isolationist, essentially the exact opposite of what they were meant to be.
Which leads to them having no real allies and thus vulnerable when the Reavings come, proving they were right all along.
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I don't think there dead until I see the body's. And thanks to orbital bombardment there are no body's to be found...
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My players got their butts handed to them yesterday and not by any great skill on my part. I totally underestimated how effective the Society's units are and despite being nearly outnumbers 2-1, the Society threw back the Blood Spirits losing only two Protomechs in the process. Ooops. But the Blood Spirits are heading back in this weekend to get their pound of flesh and the guys now have an idea of what they're facing.
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You know...my group started a Wars of Reaving campaign with Blood Spirits. It kind of fell apart because...no-one in
my group other then me could wrap their minds around how the Blood Spirits think...it seemed strange because so
many of them are Clan players. Who knew it was so hard to think "If you are not us, you a traitor to Kerensky's Vision!
We are the only clan that is still true!"
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LOL! ALL Clans think that way.
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LOL! ALL Clans think that way.
Damn right they do.
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LOL! ALL Clans think that way.
All wrong except the Sea Foxes though...
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All wrong except the Sea Foxes though...
Trust me, they think that way too. There just good at hiding it behind a veneer of the trading spirit.
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Trust me, they think that way too. There just good at hiding it behind a veneer of the trading spirit.
I meant that they think that too, but that they are correct in thinking that. :D But it was in jest.
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The trading spirit isn't all bad, not as long as the fruits of that trade is used to move Kerenskys vision forward. Especially when force of arms isn't working all that well. O:-)
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After the reaving I'm not really sure who is moving Kerensky's vision forward anymore... on topic, its definitely not the blood spirits now. Well. Maybe they'll resurrect. Green Ghosts are questionable.
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Is it not obvious? As might proves the validity of the viewpoint and all other valid claimants are out of the picture, we are left with two who continue to claim theirs is the true vision of Kerensky: Clan Jade Falcon and Clan Star Adder. Each to their respective spheres of influence, of course.
The Falcons would never admit that theirs is not the proper and true interpretation of Kerensky's writings. Sure, with the sundering of the Homeworlds and the Council of Six, that particular vocal calling has become muted. They will not submit, but perhaps through the use of arms, that their vision is not identical to Nicholas's.
The Adders (as of the 3080s) largely rule over the other Clans in the Cluster. Their view is the right one until someone can topple them from the lofty heights they now occupy. No one else in either camp seems to care in the current timeline (conjectural, I know).
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Haha ;D
Who would have ever thought in '89 the way of the clans would lead to the Falcons and Adders being at the top.
I personally dont want to see a new CBS, I'd rather see survivors turn into something completely different like the Jags/Fidelis.
I am afraid that the Green Ghosts story line is becoming much stronger and that the Spirits may become par of this new out of no where entity.
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I'm ok with out a fully surviving Clan Blood Spirit ... I agree with cold1, I just want some good story lines with CBS who manage to still make themselves known. A type of thumbing at what happened and as if to make other clans think "Hmm, that bloodline might be worth bringing back ..."
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It is simply a question what are TPTB to do with the Homeworlds and Home-Clans?
Is such a far-far away region still story-feasible or not? Herb mentioned in one of his last battlechats that there is no interest in developing somewhat of an *Outer Sphere", the Inner Sphere is where the action is.
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The home world story needs to be resolved either by the clans crashing into the Sphere or someone from the sphere crashing into them.
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Today's game saw the players gaining a marginal victory over the Society and giving the players much to debate amongst themselves. They can't root out the Society cell without destroying what they came for in the first place. The saKhan (player) wants to risk one more assault and the Loremaster (player) is for sterilizing the place from orbit but the Khan wants to negotiate. What to do, what to do...
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Try another assault and it sounds like first you lose some of your Warriors, then you'll lose the objective. Bomb the place and you only lose the objective.
Skip the negotiation, in any event.
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Negotiate??? With the Society?
Your Spirits would stoop to the level of the Burrocks and make deals with the Dark?
That seems out of character for a Blood Spirit.
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Negotiate??? With the Society?
Your Spirits would stoop to the level of the Burrocks and make deals with the Dark?
That seems out of character for a Blood Spirit.
Hate to say it...but I agree with the Adder. Better to burn the objective to the ground then let the Traitors have anything.
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The Blood Spirits are facing the same choices the Goliath Scorpions did before them and they have to change if they're going to survive. Who's exactly a traitor to whom here?
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Today's game saw the players gaining a marginal victory over the Society and giving the players much to debate amongst themselves. They can't root out the Society cell without destroying what they came for in the first place. The saKhan (player) wants to risk one more assault and the Loremaster (player) is for sterilizing the place from orbit but the Khan wants to negotiate. What to do, what to do...
Both are unfit for duty:
1. When the saKhan suggested "negotiations" with Society, at the very same moment should one true Blood Spirit Warrior stood up and declare Trial of Position (or Trial of Grievance) for saKhan's post. Because since when has the Clan Blood Spirit condescended to negotiating with the lowest savashri scum, worse even than the Dark Caste bandits?
2. Does the Loremaster think that the Society produces better Warriors than the Clan Blood Spirit, the truest follower of the great Kerensky, can? Does the Loremaster want to deny an opportunity for Blood Spirit Warriors to gain honor and glory? Does the Loremaster think that warriors of his Clan are unable to devise some working tactic?
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Hate to say it...but I agree with the Adder. Better to burn the objective to the ground then let the Traitors have anything.
Yeah, but and Adder that counts the Spirits as one of his 3 favorite clans...
Yeah, in universe I'm guarding a coal mining facility on a frozen moon assigned to a Clint IIC
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There's this concept called Han, from the Koreans which encapsulates the Blood Spirits so very well. Look it up, as I think to describe it here would cross a little too far into real world politics to really discuss it beyond mentioning it.
Don't be silly. No warrior is sitting in on a conversation between Khan, saKhan and Loremaster trying to figure out what to do. The people in charge at the moment are not fanatics - those died for the most part back assaulting the Steel Vipers. What you've got are survivors, who are being hunted down by the very system they formally espoused. The guys left in charge are being practical. Every day they spend in this system is one more day that the Star Adders or other Clans have to catch up to them. The Clan as a whole is shellshocked and if every warrior starts launching trials the Clan would fall apart and die.
The Society forces arrayed against them weren't involved in the WoR (at least directly) and have at their disposal assets that would greatly enhance the Blood Spirits chances. The charge in and take it attitude won't work here, at least in part due to the players botching two assaults in a row... (they played against each other, I wasn't involved in the fights) so they have to try something else. A third assault will likely cost them too much. Blasting the Society from orbit also isn't a good idea (stripping the fleet at the jump point of it's only defense). So talking to the Society cell on the world is an option.
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Better to die facing down and destroying the Society cell and the objective then allowing them to have the objective and to continue to exist within the Homeworlds. Heck calling for reinforcements would be allowed under those circumstances in my opinion.
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Sigh, you guys kill me. You really do.
Anyways, this afternoon's RP session saw the saKhan tell the Society leaders that they had a choice. They could stand down and accept the Blood Spirits judgement, and perhaps live on in service to the Blood Spirits or that they'd leave enough forces to pin the Society on the planet and wait until the Homeworld Clans showed up and see what their idea of "mercy" would be. To further reinforce the point, the Blood Spirits took down the Society's three remaining Jumpships in a marine assault. The Society cell, now with no way out caved and surrendered. The Blood Spirits took the enclave without any further loss. The Society cell civilians will be kept isolated on transports and each individual will be processed (and interrogated) en-route, their eventual fate to be determined based on the interrogation results. The scientists and "warriors" of the Society face a grimmer process. They won't be killed outright but they face a more severe interrogation program. Depends on what they know, the scientists maybe pardoned but those involved in technologies the Blood Spirit aren't interested in keeping will be quietly eliminated. The warriors will be permitted to live (not as warriors obviously) depending on what answers they give and what previous actions they were involved with.
So the Blood Spirits have netted themselves a stockpile of advanced arms, a small habitat/industrial station, and eighty-five thousand more mouths to feed while losing three weeks and half a cluster in their first two failed assaults. All in all, pretty damn good. Next session on Wednesday, we'll shift perspective to the characters in the scouting force which are six jumps from the main body and who've found a drifting jumpship wreck...
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Question for Blood Spirit fans: is it described anywhere how the Spirits square ProtoMechs with their whole rigid unit structure thing? I mean, they're adamant about every cluster being five Trinaries (3 'Mech, 1 vee, 1 Elemental). So which Trinary is getting replaced in that equation? Or are there just pure-Proto clusters? Are they attached organically like aerospace fighters?
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5 protos to a point, so i believe they are replacing point for point wben there is a hole needed to be filled.
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If we assume the scenarios on BattleCorps are solid examples, they replaced one 'mech with a point of Protomechs.
I did get the impression, though, that they started to replace 'Mechs with Points of Protomechs in their forces. After all,
Protomechs *ARE* "mechs."
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And they did use a Galaxy that was all Protomechs.
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We got a galaxy of them off the Ravens.
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And they did use a Galaxy that was all Protomechs.
The all Proto experiment failed though. Or at least the Vipers wiped the floor with them.
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The all Proto experiment failed though. Or at least the Vipers wiped the floor with them.
I would like to see that played out on the board.
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Here's a question though, how many Protomechs can you fit onto a Overlord IIc dropship? What kind of changes are required to the dropship itself to support them?
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Just use the Arcadia class dropship.
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A small, rare design more fit for small trials and raids. The clan would probably have far more Unions and Overlords floating about then Arcadia dropships for their protomech forces.
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So if I'm understanding this correctly, ProtoMechs were used on an ad hoc basis to fill holes in their 'Mech forces when not all those holes could be replaced with actual 'Mechs. Is that about right?
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You can have 3 Protomech bays per Battlemech Bay, with each bay holding up to 5 Protomechs. So 45x5 = 225. 225 Protomechs in a Overlord IIC.
And I'd like to see that Galaxy sized battle play out on the board too. Protomechs bring game and even without superheavies they should be able to bring a fight. I love Protomechs.
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It would be truly awesome to see 225 protomechs disembark from a single Overlord IIc. It would be essentially a circus clown car.
and yes seeing that played out I can pretty much see all those Protomechs destroying the Steel Vipers no matter what the fiction says.
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So if I'm understanding this correctly, ProtoMechs were used on an ad hoc basis to fill holes in their 'Mech forces when not all those holes could be replaced with actual 'Mechs. Is that about right?
Initially yes, but later the assignment of protomechs was done by design.
IIRC I believe this was illustrated in Tears of Blood.
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Wasn't that at Tokasha? if so Blood Spirits stuck to honorable Clan combat, while the Vipers took out each galaxy piecemeal using three galxies to one after the ilKhan labeled them dezgra, so it's not that great of an example, actually.
But it does have Last Stand factor.
One on one Galaxy action, that's different [skull]
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Wasn't that at Tokasha? if so Blood Spirits stuck to honorable Clan combat, while the Vipers took out each galaxy piecemeal using three galxies to one after the ilKhan labeled them dezgra, so it's not that great of an example, actually.
But it does have Last Stand factor.
One on one Galaxy action, that's different [skull]
Also, note, that, IIRC, that Protomech galaxy, though it was attacked piece meal with huge odds, STILL managed to FORCE the Vipers
to declare them Dezgra so they could win. The Vipers were loosing until that point, after all.
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Also, note, that, IIRC, that Protomech galaxy, though it was attacked piece meal with huge odds, STILL managed to FORCE the Vipers
to declare them Dezgra so they could win. The Vipers were loosing until that point, after all.
Well the Blood Spirits were probably fighting honorably point vs. point which meant one Steel Viper mech vs five Protomechs. Maybe they felt overwhelmed? ;)
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My table usually sees one or two mechs replaced by Protomehs.
Now someone brought it up and said that Protomechs have be deployed in 5 PM points of all the same model... I thought you could pick and choose which 5 PMs were together in a point.
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You can I believe mix protomechs in a point. I just have never seen anyone do it myself. Just plain easier to keep the same five designs per point as it keeps the speed and weapons constant.
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Now someone brought it up and said that Protomechs have be deployed in 5 PM points of all the same model... I thought you could pick and choose which 5 PMs were together in a point.
You can mix them, and I have. Sometimes you want to throw a Gorgon in with the Centaurs, or a Minotaur in with the Delphynes.
Tacticallt, using the point as all the same is easier, as you don't ahve to think about the different capabilities. However, sometimes,
you WANT those differing capabilities.
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I found some great success mixing Svartalfas (2 or 3) with Rocs (2 or 3). The Rocs get up close enough to smell the enemy's breath and alternate spotting and shooting while those sexy Svarts rain down judgment. Brainlock of my opponent ensued while he was figuring out what was the greater threat- two Rocs shooting at his back or the LRMs raining down on him.
Personal preference determines how you're running those little beasties. I used to run pure points of protos but started mixing them like special weapons packages for missions to see how well I could get success. Sometimes it works like a charm, sometimes I eat the stick. But mostly, they eat the stick I beat them with.
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That is exactly it, Trajan. Think of a point as its own star. Sure, you can do some nasty things with a homogenous star
of 'mechs, but you can also do alot with mixed stars. Gorgons and Centaurs make good pairs, for example. Rocs and Minotaurs
are also good together. The Hydra 2 is cool, but the Hydra 4 is pure murder on infantry. Put one or two of those in a point of
mostly Roc 2's, and have fun. Of course, you can also make a nasy recon point with a Roc 4, 2 Satyr 4's and 2 Satyrs. Sure the Roc
is the one slowing the unit down, but that screening ECM over the Active Probes and Light TAGs is great..especially when you
are using the point to find targets for artillery.
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I've always mixed points, because I like spreading out different capabilities. I don't worry about matching speeds so much either. I treat a point like a tiny star.
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I remembered the Vipers declaring the Spirits dezgra but not the 3 on 1 part. Do protos factor in to zell anyway?
Protos are one place where fluff and tabletop depart. Fluff makes them less effective than they wind up being. I guess it's to keep the battlemech squarely atop the food chain.
I like the Sprite/Roc combo if I'm mixing points. That gets ugly fast.
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Homogeneous or mixed, I do both. Tag satyrs with rocs to guard them while raining down arty fire... I've used tag satyrs with minotaurs and sg rounds also.
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The only thing I haven't figured out is the Fusillade weapon. WTH is it good for?
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The only thing I haven't figured out is the Fusillade weapon. WTH is it good for?
It was supposed to be a proto ATM of sorts, but it was not an effective weapon system. At least that's how it's fluffed.
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Fusillade weapon! Good god ya'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
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Well by definition a single point vs a single point should be the way of things. A single mech vs a mech, a single point of elementals vs a mech, a single point of five protomechs vs a mech. Actually it looks like the Clan book of warfare might need to be rewritten.
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Fusillade weapon! Good god ya'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
You didn't! Someone's turnin' in their grave. :D ;D >:D
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The only thing I haven't figured out is the Fusillade weapon. WTH is it good for?
For making the Hobgoblin the super Elemental that protomechs were always accused of being.
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You didn't! Someone's turnin' in their grave. :D ;D >:D
Just seemed to fit. :))
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Well by definition a single point vs a single point should be the way of things. A single mech vs a mech, a single point of elementals vs a mech, a single point of five protomechs vs a mech. Actually it looks like the Clan book of warfare might need to be rewritten.
Yeah, but 5 Rocs against a Stormcrow aint the same as 5 Elementals against a Stormcrow. I use the Roc as I consider it the standard by which all other non-super heavy protos are measured.
I wouldnt want to fight a point of Sprites in anything less than a top of the class heavy either. 5 targets jumping 5 and slinging missiles at you from every where. Sorry but you better be able to run REAL fast and get away or have a lot guns and armor.
Zell falls short with protos sort of like vehicles.
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Yesterday's game went well. Everyone showed up, and the two and a half hours went by really quick.
Had them check out a seemingly abandoned jumpship. They were thinking salvage... I was thinking something else. A misjumped Merchant jumpship (burned out core) with a Danais dropship and several hundred critters from Hunter's Paradise loose on both vessels. The PCs went over and split themselves up into two groups. Aboard the Jumpship, the smallest critters have taken over the hydroponic areas and the two next larger predator critters feed on them and fight over territory while the largest critter is stuck on the dropship, unable to get through the linkage from the DS to the JS and barely gets by on feeding off the smaller critters. And of course everything wants to eat the players...
... but the "treasure" of this "dungeon" is the creatures themselves. The biology of the middle sized critters (they're cousin species) could be useful for synaptic research and offers a chance for an improved neural filters. By itself, it's not enough for any kind of massive breakthrough but it's one of a dozen tweaks I'm offering hidden throughout the game. Next week, we'll have a couple of more quick sessions to see what they do. Right now, the players in the dropship have found themselves cut off from their entry point by the big beastie and the Jumpship team has fended off several of the mid-sized predators. Most of the players haven't twigged that the critters themselves maybe useful alive. One did but he's playing a "dumb" Elemental and playing it so. Next session, we'll wrap it up and move on to the rear guard, who are going to face down the Homeworld Clans.
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Sounds like fun. In my AToW game, I'm amazed at how many things my players don't pick up on. It's as if I had a 100 piece marching band blaring horns and pounding drums on clues to things that could help them and they mosey on oblivious to the plot hooks and knowledge I throw in for fun and exploration. Your game sounds great, Terminax. I'd love to play in it.
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Sounds like a lot of fun! + all the players showed O0
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Well it looks like the Blood Kite is on its way to the archives. I plan on ordering at least two more of them before then. Better to have them in the "big box 'o' mini's" now then someday in the future needing them and having to pay the archive fee.
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Well I ordered one of the Blood Kites today, couldn't afford two. Plan is to paint it up in Red Guard Colors and literally paint it up like it has gone through hell and back. Essentially painting it up as one might have been seen during there last stand on Strana Mechty.
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Yea, i want to order a bunch of the stuff going into archive but money is tight right now with 6 events coming up in a row with no break. I missed out on a few archive returns because of it. Great way for IWM to boost sales for a few weeks with this threat... when i win the lottery...
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Yea, i want to order a bunch of the stuff going into archive but money is tight right now with 6 events coming up in a row with no break. I missed out on a few archive returns because of it. Great way for IWM to boost sales for a few weeks with this threat... when i win the lottery...
Well, I hate to say it but to keep from paying archive fee's down the road I plan on skipping the event this weekend. Not that I could really go, as I have family obligations anyway.
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We have to meet with Their Majesties this weekend or i might go to viking fest in Paulsbo WA.
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Well it looks like the Blood Kite is on its way to the archives. I plan on ordering at least two more of them before then. Better to have them in the "big box 'o' mini's" now then someday in the future needing them and having to pay the archive fee.
Wait what? When? I need 2 more.
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Check the iwm area on these boards. A bunch of mechs that you would never guess are getting archived... BK is one, along with the falconer( !?! ) shootist, talon, chameleon ...
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Hopefully I can get some at Origins next month!
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Wait what? When? I need 2 more.
Well I would get them soon, before you need to pay an extra ten bucks for the pleasure. I just have a hard time believing though its that bad of a seller.
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Well I would get them soon, before you need to pay an extra ten bucks for the pleasure. I just have a hard time believing though its that bad of a seller.
Well...considering the primary clan that plays it is no longer around in universe, and most people do not do historical games set outside of
the 3025 Scavenger tech era...
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True, but it is a awesome mech by itself. One any Clan would want in there ranks. That's why they didn't like the Spirits. Blood Kite envy!
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I dunno Mara. We do a lot of SL era stuff( because I'm the leader of the group and i make the games ) and Klondike/ golden century games ( see previous insert ) and even pre-jihad clan invasion stuff. Battletechpallooza this year is going to be Tukayid. Ince again, though... I'm different than most people... that's why I'm a Spirit.
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True, but it is a awesome mech by itself. One any Clan would want in there ranks. That's why they didn't like the Spirits. Blood Kite envy!
It's in the top 6 in votes to be kept out of archives a the moment. Rally your troops Spirits and go vote.
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So far we still look to be good on keeping the Blood Kite, if anyone hasn't voted yet there is still time!
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My table has had two short sessions and a medium length session since my last update. Due to study needs of my younger players, we've passed over the "big battle" of the Blood Spirits rear guard for now but will take it up on a weekend once their not so busy.
The situation aboard the Jumpship was resolved, with specimens of each of the critters collected and the abandoned Jumpship/Dropships vented to space to deal with the remaining infestation, the Dropships salvaged and the Jumpship set on a slow burn into the system's sun. The recon force then split into two, tracking down the last of their target systems seperately to make up for lost time.
The first recon teams first target was believed to be a RWR/Hidden Army outpost. They find it but it's a bust - the world is barely habitable and the water supply is toxic without extensive filtration and treatment. All they find of the former base is ferroconcrete pads under layers of local moss and lichens, all the temporary buildings have been stripped or have fallen apart in the intervening years. Their second target system isn't much better. There was supposed to be an inhabitable planet but in the years since the survey, some undetermined enviromental disaster has caused the world to be burned to a cinder and is now a wasteland.
The second recon team hits two systems, neither of which host a habitable world but their third world revealed a sizeable colony world settled over several successive waves during and after the Star League with a technology base roughly equivalent to the age of war. I'll save the long description for my thread in the non-canon units forum but the players learn there's three "major" nations on the planet and in trying to find a place to land and contact the natives they discover one of the factions controls local space which demands the "intruders" leave the system immediately. The Clanners sorta do and sorta don't - one of the jumpships makes for the rendezvous with the other recon team and the main body of the BS Fleet while the second ship, a Hunter jumps to a none-standard jumppoint beyond the locals scanner range and begins a pattern of long distance surveilance.
The main body meanwhile continues onwards, incorporating the the Society cell people. Internal power struggles start to crop up again as the traditionalists try once more to challenge the Clan's leadership. The challenges fail and the Khan reaffirms his vision for the Clan. But the threat isn't stomped out and an assassination attempt led by one of the failed challengers severely wounds both the Khan and saKhan and kills the Loremaster and the assassins. When the recon teams rendevous with the main body, the Khan decides that they'll head to the colony mentioned above.
Secretly, the Khan has decided to use the colony as a way to vent the Blood Spirits frustrations by distracting his Clansmen with a short, victorious war. It's not the final destination but it's a juicy target and he feels that the Homeworld Clans are far enough behind that the Clan can steamroll the locals, and take what they need before moving on. It'll also let him test out one of his secret projects...
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Now that sounds like your having fun!
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Today's session will see the addition of two new players while my four High School age players are taking their break. Really means we get more RPing done because the kids are mainly involved in the game for the war gaming. One of them will be playing the Blood Spirits new Loremaster. I know him from a Deadlands campaign run by a mutual friend and he's planning to play something like a fire and brimstone kind of preacher man... sounds like it can fit into the Blood Spirits mentality. The other guy is a college aged guy who's been watching our game when we've had it at the LGS from the Warhammer 40k tables and he's going to be playing a young warrior right out of a Sibko.
It's been getting more fun than the earlier game mainly because everyone is getting comfortable with the ATOW rules. It's a great system save for the tedious back end work for me making up NPCs.
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Making up NPC's? Do what I did back in the day, base them off people in the forums and you work with.
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Making up NPC's? Do what I did back in the day, base them off people in the forums and you work with.
Brilliant! That's worth a Guinness for sure. O0
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I meant more in the technical sense. I do wing lots of characters, relying on stock templates I've made up. I would never base any character on someone from my personal or work or online lives. I can whip together character concepts really easy, it's the bloody stats that are a pain. I use Index cards to keep track of all my NPCs and I've got like three boxes worth.
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I meant more in the technical sense. I do wing lots of characters, relying on stock templates I've made up. I would never base any character on someone from my personal or work or online lives. I can whip together character concepts really easy, it's the bloody stats that are a pain. I use Index cards to keep track of all my NPCs and I've got like three boxes worth.
What? Afraid to sic the likes of Wombat or ILUVWOB or Tassa Kay on your characters? :D
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12 pages and no one even mentioned the most rabid, frothing-mad Blood Spirit fan of all time? I'm gonna go join my Clan in death now. :X
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12 pages and no one even mentioned the most rabid, frothing-mad Blood Spirit fan of all time? I'm gonna go join my Clan in death now. :X
Well, you do keep dropping off...and, it seems like we have gotten alot of new people. If it makes you feel any better, I was
thinking the other day "You know...I haven't heard from Tassa in a while? Wonder if there was a ban involved from passionate
discourse, or if family/RL issues hit again?"
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Just having intermittent/spotty access is all. I'm alive and well, unlike Dear Leader Karianna Schmitt. :)
Know that whether or not I'm here on the boards, I'm with all of you in spirit (see what I did there?). Mara, Top, Stormlion, Hengist, daishi, and everyone else who have made being a Blood Spirit fan not only bearable, but thoroughly enjoyable. I've finally moved on as a player from their demise, but they'll always have my heart. I wouldn't still be a BattleTech player if it weren't for Clan "GET OFF OUR LAWN".
:)
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Clan "GET OFF OUR LAWN"
I'm stealing that!
And HIYA TASSA!
My word, your avatar is green! Nice change from the red.
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yea, stealing that one too. Howdy Tassa! nice seein you again. I think that should be the next thread name. Much better than the Clan: Emo my friends were calling me.
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12 pages and no one even mentioned the most rabid, frothing-mad Blood Spirit fan of all time? I'm gonna go join my Clan in death now. :X
I didn't forget, I just didn't think to ask where you have been. ;)
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Yesterday's game was a muddled hectic mess. We had three character deaths, all in connection (one in a roundabout way) to the trials and politics of the highly coveted Loremaster slot but the new player prevailed in the end and it's great that I've got two really good and engaging players in leadership roles. Allot also went on in the reformation of the Blood Guard Keshik. All the teenage players came yesterday which caused a little bit of panic and dragged down the pace of the game. Eleven players all at once is too much for to handle so I've got to work a way to work that problem out.
Anyways, the new Loremaster player is a devil. He's from a LARP background so he's very theatrical in his play style compared to most of the other players. Really fun guy. He's playing it definitely as a check against the Khan's reform agenda and finally gives the saKhan player someone to play off of with his own reservations. The players are realigning the Clan's Touman and have to Wednesday to submit all their changes and shuffling around. I know they'll have at least two Galaxies - Alpha and Beta and the Blood Guard Keshik but the various players have their own wants and desires. Clusters are seeing changes from the Blood Spirit's usual orthodoxy but I don't know the details of those changes yet.
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What? Afraid to sic the likes of Wombat or ILUVWOB or Tassa Kay on your characters? :D
He *should* be afraid. :)
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Sounds like its a fun game.
Good to see you back Tassa.
I think everyone just assumed you had been banned for some odd reason :)
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Any outstanding reasons anyone can think of why I shouldn't pick up some Cecerops ProtoMechs? An opportunity is presenting itself...
My only other ProtoMechs are a Point each of Siren and Gorgon, if that matters any.
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It isn't bad for an ammunition dependent scout. It doesn't have any of the electronics, but its fast enough to get to places where your opponent wishes it wasn't. Unfortunately, its weaponry is what you'd expect from a 3 tonner moving 9/14.
I'm not sure if there's anything it can do your Sirens can't already.
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Except get painted and added to your collection and then used as cannon fodder in a large game.
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I use the them just like I used to use Stingers, Wasps and Locusts - mobile spotters and backstabbers. Use their speed to keep them safe but close enough that when heavier elements engage they can swoosh in there and plink away.
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I highly recommend everyone takes a trip over to camospecs. Blood Spirit got some mad love.
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WOW! Those are beautiful! I totally forgot to hit cso this morning. Thanks for the heads up Shocka. I can't tell which one i like the best. They're all fantastic. SC is fast becoming one of my favorite painters.
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WOW! Those are beautiful! I totally forgot to hit cso this morning. Thanks for the heads up Shocka. I can't tell which one i like the best. They're all fantastic. SC is fast becoming one of my favorite painters.
Gotta go with the Crimson Langur. They're all fantastic but I'm a sucker for that mech.
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Yea, i love that little bastard too. I have 4 lol.
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Omega Galaxy is the snazziest scheme in the Touman, but I hate painting white with such a passion.
Also, I know the Spirits were strict in enforcing the 3/1/1 Trinary rule with 'Mechs, Vees, and Elementals on the Cluster scale, but with what likeliness would you see an ad-hoc Star like 3 Proto Points and two 'Mechs, or three Protos, an Omni, and some Elementals?
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<<Peeks in>> This place has been very busy of late. I do not mind giving some credit to the designers of the Crimson Langur too. :) Was happy to see it on our RAT and it is still one of the few mechs they have not tried to confuse me with by giving it two names :P
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Omega is nice but Upsilon is the shit!
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Love the scheme on the Blood Asp, but I dislike that sculpt. The second sculpt (I think?) is the one I prefer by a long shot.
Omega is nice but Upsilon is the shit!
Totally agree!
Also, I know the Spirits were strict in enforcing the 3/1/1 Trinary rule with 'Mechs, Vees, and Elementals on the Cluster scale, but with what likeliness would you see an ad-hoc Star like 3 Proto Points and two 'Mechs, or three Protos, an Omni, and some Elementals?
I'd say after 3067, all bets are off as far as that goes.
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Omega is nice but Upsilon is the shit!
Tau and Omega are my favorite.
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question of the day ----if the spirit's where to create new equipment what woould it be???? new weapons,battle armor,protomech or battlemechs or tanks???
:) ;D ;D
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ProtoMechs. I'd bet on that for Burrock as well.
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Well if they rose from the dead or were a pirate faction out on the fringes of Clan Space I could see the Spirits coming up with a new standard mech lines, dedicated Lights, Meduims, Heavy and Assault Battlemechs. Not Omnimechs and use these designs to swamp battlefields with firepower to kill dezgra Star Adders.
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Tau and Omega are my favorite.
All mine are painted up as Omicron.
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Omni protos. I don't know why it's not been done yet.
Also, omni's built on all standard parts ie. no ff, xl,es.
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Ultra-Heavy Protomechs and Pocket Warships.
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Pws are IS stuff. I doubt they would have heard of them but they could have come up with them apart from the IS stuff.
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They need something. A Pocket Dropship needn't be built around the IS Sub-Capital Weapons.
As it was in my ATOW campaign, in the years between the Burrock Absorption and the (attempted) invasion of York, the Blood Spirits made another trade with the Snow Ravens for a mobile shipyard and technicians using their rest of their SLDF era Warships as collateral. As a new Warship was built, one of their SLDF Warships would be transferred over. When the Star Adders showed up, they were in for a rude shock and didn't lock in the Blood Spirits. We started the colonization program much earlier which gave the Blood Spirits the additional resources. We didn't build anything shockingly huge like the Leviathan Prime the Steel Vipers did, rather a series of good solid frigates and a battlecruiser that were more modern designs and better balanced/designed than their SLDF forefathers. Then a separate deal with the Diamond Sharks for help with an Assault Dropship which afterwards the Blood Spirits modified into a Pocket Warship.
I don't see it as a too far stretch for the Blood Spirits to develop Sub-Capital Weapons themselves because they're the ones who developed Proto-ACs. With their penchant for trying to make every last resource count and the dire need for some sort of anti-WS weapon, Sub-Capital weapons make sense.
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That reminds me, Conventional Infantry + Proto-ACs = Kick Ass Conventional Infantry. Of course we've house ruled it so they can use the specialty ammo and fractional counting of the ammunition (so one ton can be split between different rounds). But even without those changes they're awesome, especially in an urban fight.
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Actually I change my idea what they build. They build Nova Cats, lots and lots of Nova Cats. They build those and Blood Kites and pretty much only those and let them loose on the Homeworlds.
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Cyborg bloodkites, giant ones that we can use as drones armed with pocket nukes.
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Just forgetting the ultimate fate of the spirits. I could see with the shift in attitudes of the homeworld clans plus with access to the salvaged tech and research of the society especially in regards to genetics the spirits creating new phenotypes of warriors. One idea could be an enhanced warrior phenotype (whatever size standard or elemental) specialised as conventional infantry and maybe intelligence specialist warrior. Enhanced from society genetic enhancements in one fashion or another. Perhaps utilised the line of research for enhancing traits of the lower castes more intelligent scientist etc.
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Mixing in society genes into iur gene pool? That'll get us killed for sure.
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I still haven't got WoR ... maybe with the next pay check before the end of School (I'm thinking print copy if available, because pdf is ok, but not great for reading).
Did the Adders kill off the BS ... or just blockade them and wait for them to die off? ... I'm ok with the blockade, especially if Ravens and Sharks/Foxes want to play blockade runner to the Adder Empire.
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A few years after the WoR finished the Star Adders won the right to absorb the Blood Spirits for UnClanlike behavior. It went as well as can be expected for us. We went down swinging.
As for new phenotypes, we did have the new Protomech pilot phenotype in the works, so we were working on something new and different.
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I still haven't got WoR ... maybe with the next pay check before the end of School (I'm thinking print copy if available, because pdf is ok, but not great for reading).
Did the Adders kill off the BS ... or just blockade them and wait for them to die off? ... I'm ok with the blockade, especially if Ravens and Sharks/Foxes want to play blockade runner to the Adder Empire.
The Adders rather unceremoniously whacked the Spirits. The Spirits wouldn't play by the rules with the Coyotes and Lions (yup you need to buy WoR) so the Adders just declared them dezgra from the start.
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The Adders rather unceremoniously whacked the Spirits. The Spirits wouldn't play by the rules with the Coyotes and Lions (yup you need to buy WoR) so the Adders just declared them dezgra from the start.
Am I the only person who laughed at the fact that the Coyotes were trying to play by the rules at that point? Such a change of course for them. #P
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I love our Super-Heavy Protos in our game - the 15 ton Redcap (Proto-AC/8) and the 11 ton Bwca. The Bwca is our equivalent of a mini trinity mech - the Shadowhawk, Griffin or Wolverine (arguably, one of it's versions covers the Dervish too) and basically is an upgraded Hobgoblin. Watching a point of Redcaps drag down a pair of Assault Omnis remains the highlight of the war gaming half of our game.
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My main issue is that they found the Colleen system at all. Plenty of worlds in the Kerensky Cluster to settle/salvage after the WoR and a expedition just happens to leave Clan space and find Honor and Haven?
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My main issue is that they found the Colleen system at all. Plenty of worlds in the Kerensky Cluster to settle/salvage after the WoR and a expedition just happens to leave Clan space and find Honor and Haven?
Coyote Loremaster Jackie Ravenwater secured that information during a Coyote Watch operation on Strana Mechty, instigated in revenge for the Spirits continually snubbing them post-WoR.
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We have long memories. We have always snubbed the 'yotes. Unfortunatly their watch has gotten much better over the years. Sneaky creatures that they are.
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We have long memories. We have always snubbed the 'yotes. Unfortunatly their watch has gotten much better over the years. Sneaky creatures that they are.
The Watch...such a disply of the so-called "Taint" that they all hated so much! You want to know what your enemies are doing?
Ask them. If they refuse to answer(which, of course, is their right if you are not issuing a Trial,) then issue a Trial for that information
like a true Child of Kerensky. If there was ever greater proof of how far the Clans have fallen, it is that the Watch exists, and it did
not before the exposure to the Inner Sphere.
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Pws are IS stuff. I doubt they would have heard of them but they could have come up with them apart from the IS stuff.
In the WoR during the cataclysmic battle for Vinton between the "Dark" Coyotes and Diamond Sharks the Sharks used two Excalibur dropships. IMHO it is possible that both were of the PWS variant.
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Also, I know the Spirits were strict in enforcing the 3/1/1 Trinary rule with 'Mechs, Vees, and Elementals on the Cluster scale, but with what likeliness would you see an ad-hoc Star like 3 Proto Points and two 'Mechs, or three Protos, an Omni, and some Elementals?
During the Reaving the best bet is that they were replacing `Mech points with ProtoMech points, so finding a Star of 3 ProtoMech Points and 2 `Mech points would be entirely possible. The Elementals inside a `Mech star, maybe not so much. Maybe on attached duty, or as you said, ad-hoc, but not as a permanent thing.
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Yay! ... believe it or not, I think 'went down swinging' gave me more insight than before.
I guess the other part is did we hit them? ... like, the Adders may be the biggest Clan on the Block, but they're still walking around with limp ... fat lip, black eye, less teeth, etc
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The Watch...such a disply of the so-called "Taint" that they all hated so much! You want to know what your enemies are doing?
Ask them. If they refuse to answer(which, of course, is their right if you are not issuing a Trial,) then issue a Trial for that information
like a true Child of Kerensky. If there was ever greater proof of how far the Clans have fallen, it is that the Watch exists, and it did
not before the exposure to the Inner Sphere.
Actually if you go by one story the Watch predates the Clan Invasion, and was set up by Nicky K himself. Good money he shut it down afterwords but the precedent is there.
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Actually if you go by one story the Watch predates the Clan Invasion, and was set up by Nicky K himself. Good money he shut it down afterwords but the precedent is there.
You mean the Society Propaganda piece?
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Yes, Betrayal of Ideals.
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Coyote Loremaster Jackie Ravenwater secured that information during a Coyote Watch operation on Strana Mechty, instigated in revenge for the Spirits continually snubbing them post-WoR.
Point of order, it was the Stone Lion's not the Coyote.
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so the remaining hell's horses managed to save their own skins by giving the Adders ours?
Said it earlier, I get that the Spirits as a Clan are no more, but I hope that doesn't mean we won't have in impact on future events.
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I can understand why the Stone Lions did it. They had been snubbed by the Spirits, they needed trade. So they used espionage, not a trial to get the location of the Colleen system. The Blood Spirits new Colony's. They actually needed the trade and so did the Spirits. The sad part was that if the Spirits had opened negotiations and had traded, possibly through drop offs or making delivery's and pick ups on Stone Lion worlds the Spirits could have remained hidden for a whole lot longer. Our own isolation doomed us, that and the Adders wanting to settle a score. I still believe that when the Spirits received the new that they were to be "absorbed" someone in the Clan would have been smart enough to order a mini exodus while they could and abandon Clan Space altogether to rebuild elsewhere before the Adders showed up.
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Stormlion, I have actually said this before, but, when you read the whole reasons for the call for the
"Absorption" of the Blood Spirits, their letting their civilians fight was not the real reason. It was their
breaking unity with the Clans. They made secret colonies, they refused to to trade, and they failed
to keep their civilians in line. It wasn't just one thing. I fully agree that the ultimate cause of the
Spirits death was that they were not willing to trade with a Clan that was, effectively, offering an
open hand. We know the reason the Cobras did not side with the Spirits was because they knew
that they would be the next target if they opposed the Adders. If the Spirits had actually accepted
the offer of the Lions, the Lions and Cobras might have formed a voting block to have stopped the
majority vote needed. Or, at the very least, have provided an argument that could have swayed the
practical side of the Adders to seeing some value in keeping the Spirits around.
I also disagree that the Adders eliminated the Spirits for a simple grudge. As long as the SPirits were
on the MUCH reduced Grand Council, they would forever be opposition to the Adders. The Adders
had the Stone Lions in their pocket, but two clans out of five still means that the other 3 could
vote against the Adders. The Adders needed to get rid of the Spirits so that the Council could
never have worse then a tie, which the Adders would control the tie-breaking vote. It was a power
grab, pure and simple. And, it allowed the Adders to demonstrate "This is what happens to anyone
who disagrees with us."
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My weekend game went off without a hitch. We switched viewpoints again, this time to the rear guard. In our game, the other Clans haven't quite figured exactly what the Blood Spirits are up to and the Blood Spirits left believing that the Homeworld Clans would be right on their tail. The Star Adders suspect the Blood Spirits have sent a force to the Inner Sphere using the cover of searching for Society hold-outs and roped the Cloud Cobras in that helping them track the Blood Spirits down, while the Coyotes and Stone Lions think they've found the location of the Blood Spirits secret world. Neither pair of Clans is talking to the other... the Star Adders & Cloud Cobras want to find the Blood Spirits to find out what their up to, the Coyotes and Stone Lions want to take the Blood Spirits secret world for themselves.
Now before I go further, I better explain in my game the Blood Spirits are in significantly better shape before and after the WoR than canon. I won't go into all the differences. Unable to bring everything with them, the Clan was forced to leave a reinforced Galaxy behind and about a quarter of the remaining civilian population. The Blood Spirit's leadership didn't expect them to follow on but there was enough infrastructure and resources left to keep the possibility open. For instance, the Clan had a small shipyard going at Colleen and while the vast majority of the facility was packed up and went with the Clan, a single slip was left in place capable of finishing the handful of partially built or repairable Jumpship hulls that were left behind. The reinforced Galaxy (Zeta) has eight clusters in various degrees of ability and functionality. Three of which are normal Blood Spirit Clusters while the other five provisional Clusters each have one Mech trinary, 1 vehicle trinary and 3 Conventional Infantry trinaries. There's three binaries worth of aerospace fighters and five trinaries worth of protomechs, half new production from the Blood Spirits remaining factory and half. salvaged from various sources that's unassigned.
The players hope to use what they've got to buy time primarily for the rest of the Clan to make it to safety but there is slight hope that they can buy enough time to build their own mini-escape fleet and flee to a fall back point where they'll be able to make contact with the rest of the Clan and follow. At the moment though, they have three semi-working Jumpships, another one nearly done and three more that can be finished as well as two others that can be fixed, each will take a certain amount of time and effort. On the weekend the players faced off against the Coyotes and Stone Lions who have found Colleen. They did pretty well all things considering, the Coyotes were the stronger opponent but they were forced to retreat inflicting allot of damaging on the two clusters they faced. The Stone Lions meanwhile crushed one of the provisional clusters and maimed a second but was forced to retreat after netting themselves a binary of mech salvage. The fighting was intense but the Blood Spirits have sent the Coyotes and Stone Lions off to lick their wounds and honor was held to so neither of those Clans will run off to big daddy Star Adders *yet*. Colleen's existance will get back back to the Star Adders eventually. There's a Cloud Cobra expedition coming too (their original one was dragooned into tracking down the Blood Spirits which is why it's out of order with the canon timeline) but the players are planning to send one of their full clusters and one of their provisional ones on their own raid to put the other Clans on the defensive. That'll be next session on Thursday night.
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Nice AU. Sounds lime fun games too.
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Point of order, it was the Stone Lion's not the Coyote.
I'm aware. Mistyped. ;)
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Stormlion, I have actually said this before, but, when you read the whole reasons for the call for the
"Absorption" of the Blood Spirits, their letting their civilians fight was not the real reason. It was their
breaking unity with the Clans. They made secret colonies, they refused to to trade, and they failed
to keep their civilians in line. It wasn't just one thing. I fully agree that the ultimate cause of the
Spirits death was that they were not willing to trade with a Clan that was, effectively, offering an
open hand. We know the reason the Cobras did not side with the Spirits was because they knew
that they would be the next target if they opposed the Adders. If the Spirits had actually accepted
the offer of the Lions, the Lions and Cobras might have formed a voting block to have stopped the
majority vote needed. Or, at the very least, have provided an argument that could have swayed the
practical side of the Adders to seeing some value in keeping the Spirits around.
I also disagree that the Adders eliminated the Spirits for a simple grudge. As long as the SPirits were
on the MUCH reduced Grand Council, they would forever be opposition to the Adders. The Adders
had the Stone Lions in their pocket, but two clans out of five still means that the other 3 could
vote against the Adders. The Adders needed to get rid of the Spirits so that the Council could
never have worse then a tie, which the Adders would control the tie-breaking vote. It was a power
grab, pure and simple. And, it allowed the Adders to demonstrate "This is what happens to anyone
who disagrees with us."
I agree. The Adders hold grudges as part of their faction personality, it's in the first few lines of their Remembrance snippet. Or in other words, Remember all trespasses, that's them to a t (literally in this case).
And the wording of the trial of absorption part was basically "they put their needs above the needs all the Clans and/or above the ways of the Clans" very, very roughly. I think it was indeed the Coyote Khan Leo Koga who said that, though the Stone Lions agreed, or maybe the other way around. (they possibly wrote each others speech, who knows...)
All this while the Adders Khans shook their heads in annoyed agreement, and rushed the entire proceedings, urging everyone to hurry and vote and vote often, clapping their hands and pointing imperiously until it was done and they could leave and finish the feud their way, no matter what kind of Trial it was supposed to be.
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If any of you come to Origins this week, I'll see you there!
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So, did the Adders add the Rains of Colleen to their remembrance?
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You're asking in the wrong thread.
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If the Adders didn't forget what a Trial of Absorption meant, it might have been appropriate to ask here. ???
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How do you pronounce "Boques?"
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I pronounce it like "BOWX".
Strong O sound making like "Bow", with the 'ques' part at the end pronounced like the K sound at the end of "picks" or "clocks" or "folks". O0
edit: I should have just said rhymes with "Hoax".
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I always thought it was Bosques... guess I've been adding an s in there. Rebs, that's how I pronounce it also.
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I always prononced it like Box, like the S was silent.
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True. Just because I and others use the strong O sound doesn't mean it's correct. "Bahks" or rhyming with "Box" could be it as well, depending on tons of factors.
With the often subjective way English works, either could be correct.
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I've always pronounced it like Rebs does.
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It looked like it might be a French name, so I've been leaving the 's' silent at the end.
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http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boques
There's the wiki pronounciations.
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I think any pronunciation one uses (I personally say "box") can be chalked up to cultural drift. ;)
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I always thought it might be Spanish but french works better i guess..
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Did the Blood Kite make the cut from the archives?
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More cso love...
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=6652
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Man I wish I could paint in white like that.
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Same, that thing is beautiful.
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was or is there any possibility that the Spirit's could expand their warship fleet by using naval brain cache or mothballed ships ???
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They traded them to the ravens for mechs. We never really had a large fleet. Then there was the privations of the burrocks and mongoose during the golden century that paired us down also.
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was or is there any possibility that the Spirit's could expand their warship fleet by using naval brain cache or mothballed ships ???
Also, there are no more mothballed ships in clan space. They were all activated or destroyed during the Reaving.
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Man I wish I could paint in white like that.
Look close...it is not truly white. You can see where the illusion is made, though.
Remember: you do not paint white, you paint the ILLUSION of white.
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Also, there are no more mothballed ships in clan space. They were all activated or destroyed during the Reaving.
That may not be true, usually a Clan hid its Mothball fleet and there locations just weren't known. Its entirely possible that a Clan that was annihilated or run out of clan space may have left some warships unaccounted for. That's warships, its entirely possible though there are small fleets of mothballed jumpships still sitting around.
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That may not be true, usually a Clan hid its Mothball fleet and there locations just weren't known. Its entirely possible that a Clan that was annihilated or run out of clan space may have left some warships unaccounted for. That's warships, its entirely possible though there are small fleets of mothballed jumpships still sitting around.
Dont have my PDFs with me but pretty sure WoR states there are no more mothballed warships. (sorry wasn't clear the first time and said ships)
I mean the more we move forward in the timeline the more it's possible the Foxes were wrong on stuff in that report.
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Were they wrong or did the shark watch conceal things.
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Were they wrong or did the shark watch conceal things.
If you ask me the Sharks are still in cohoots with the homeclans. The name change says it all. The Sharks are Abjured but the Foxes are not. They would be the clan to write a false report to other clans too.
I seriously doubt that will happen but the Foxes being the 5th homeworld clan in secret and basically having beach heads and intel all over the sphere would make for an amazing new invasion. They're selling old tech to the IS and using the money and resources gained to build new tech in the homeworlds.
Be pretty funny if the invasion comes, the Foxes flip a switch and all the toys they sold to those front line elite units suddenly stop working. Whoooops, half your force is gone!
On topic, I had a thought. Since the Adders technically absorbed the Spirits and have both Spirit and their ally Mandrill legacies, what's the odds they create another new clan with those legacies and name it clan Blood Spirit?
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Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe the Diamond Sharks left the Homeworlds so quick they left there own warship caches behind. Same for the Wolves and the Falcons. Unless they reactivated their warship fleets before revival its a good bet they had ships in storage. The Golden Century wasn't that damaging for these clans warship fleets that they had to dig into them too often.
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@Cold1... i like the Fox theory! That would be brilliant! Very NBSG.
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I find that theory very, very scary myself.
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I dunno. I view them as the opposite of the Homeworld's Coyotes. Both are the sneaky Clans. The Wolves, Jade Falcons and Ghost Bears all together match the Star Adders, the Snow Ravens match the Cloud Cobras and the Hell's Horses are the opposite of the Stone Lions. The Nova Cats are the IS equivalent to the Blood Spirits - they just didn't fit in anymore and so... had to go.
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Canon sucks sometimes. Why TPTB ever feel the need to *reduce* factional choices is beyond me. <shrug>
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True, reducing factions is a bad idea in my opinion. The more choices the better!
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True, reducing factions is a bad idea in my opinion. The more choices the better!
It's not like there isn't dozens upon dozens of merc factions. Never heard anyone complain, "We got too many mercenary units... lets kill half of 'em off."
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Wait, did you miss the FedCom Civil War and the Jihad? They did kill about half the named merc units off and decimated the other half.
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Wait, did you miss the FedCom Civil War and the Jihad? They did kill about half the named merc units off and decimated the other half.
I was being sarcastic.
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If the Blood Spirits had been left in Colleen, completely unknown to the other Clans, I could've stomached both their absence from the universe and their horrific joyride during the Wars of Reaving. The actual canon fate was disappointing and a little obnoxious to me, which is why I choose to ignore it in my own games. Not all stories are good stories.
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If the Blood Spirits had been left in Colleen, completely unknown to the other Clans, I could've stomached both their absence from the universe and their horrific joyride during the Wars of Reaving. The actual canon fate was disappointing and a little obnoxious to me, which is why I choose to ignore it in my own games. Not all stories are good stories.
I concur. A part of me still thinks the Blood Spirits could have somehow survived, though.
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I was being sarcastic.
We really need a 'sarcasm' smiley face.
I for one refuse to believe their dead and gone. Something always survives. Which is why I have such big hopes for the Green Ghosts and the few mechs that have the Blood Spirit insignia painted on them.
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We really need a 'sarcasm' smiley face.
I for one refuse to believe their dead and gone. Something always survives. Which is why I have such big hopes for the Green Ghosts and the few mechs that have the Blood Spirit insignia painted on them.
The Green Ghost's mechs have the logos of all deep periphery boogeymen on them.
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True, but the Blood Spirits are a recent one and not one known very well to the Inner Sphere. The WoR are just rumors at best to a Inner Sphere agency and later in the book there is even a rumor the Clan is alive. So a sighting of a Blood Spirit logo might actually make sense if there are survivors roaming the Periphery as a Inner Sphere agency wouldn't know the Clan was Annihilated/absorbed.
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It's been said that they are never coming back and no pockets of them survived in secret on another hidden colony or two, but I reserve the right to hope that tptb decide that's not true at all. It probably won't happen, but giving up hope is hard. :)
At least the Nova Cats dropped in and bought their own farm near the Blood Spirit's plot.
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It's been said that they are never coming back and no pockets of them survived in secret on another hidden colony or two, but I reserve the right to hope that tptb decide that's not true at all. It probably won't happen, but giving up hope is hard. :)
At least the Nova Cats dropped in and bought their own farm near the Blood Spirit's plot.
Say what you will, but at least we're all in good company now. Pretty sure we aren't gonna be alone at this party for very long, either.
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Say what you will, but at least we're all in good company now. Pretty sure we aren't gonna be alone at this party for very long, either.
Yeah...Davion, Steiner, and Kurita all very much have their necks on the block...(Now, the Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth,
and Draconis Combine are different matters...)
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I only mentioned the best company. Though there are Vipers, Mandrills, Hellions and Burrocks further down the road, too.
Yeah, finally things are being shaken up. Really shaken up, as in *poof* your faction is toast and won't be updated anymore.
I wasn't thinking about the Great House ruling lines dieing (accept maybe Kurita), but that is certainly true. We live in such uncertain times.
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I wasn't thinking about the Great House ruling lines dieing (accept maybe Kurita), but that is certainly true. We live in such uncertain times.
Kurita has the last heir they could find on the throne right now, and Davion...well, they have a battlefield commander
with no kids as the new de facto First Prince. i don't know if they have any other Davions who could take over. For
Steiner you have only Trillian and Roderick. Those ruling families are all in kind of a precarious position. Liao is not,
only because something like 10% of the CapCon citizenry has Liao blood...(The REAL Mongol doctrine at work, there).
it is interesting times in the BattleTech universe, when no-one is really safe.
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It's not like there isn't dozens upon dozens of merc factions. Never heard anyone complain, "We got too many mercenary units... lets kill half of 'em off."
I know its sarcasm, but at the same time that they were killing off some of those units (and lets face it, not really killing alot of them off, just wounding them) they added who knows how many new merc units in various Merc Supplementals at the same time :)
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Kurita has the last heir they could find on the throne right now, and Davion...well, they have a battlefield commander
with no kids as the new de facto First Prince. i don't know if they have any other Davions who could take over. For
Steiner you have only Trillian and Roderick. Those ruling families are all in kind of a precarious position. Liao is not,
only because something like 10% of the CapCon citizenry has Liao blood...(The REAL Mongol doctrine at work, there).
it is interesting times in the BattleTech universe, when no-one is really safe.
Anybody else notice the current rulers of the Federated Suns and the Lyran Commonwealth have swapped descent from Hanse Davion? The current ruler of the Lyrans is a descendant of Peter Steiner-Davion and not Adam Steiner and with the death of Caleb the line of descent no longer comes from Hanse but a distaff member of the Davion family?
And honestly I half expect Callandre Kell to show up with Julians kids at some point and being really pissed off at the whole thing.
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If the Blood Spirits had been left in Colleen, completely unknown to the other Clans, I could've stomached both their absence from the universe and their horrific joyride during the Wars of Reaving. The actual canon fate was disappointing and a little obnoxious to me, which is why I choose to ignore it in my own games. Not all stories are good stories.
Agreed.
Did the Blood Kite make the cut from the archives?
I don't know about that, but I do know that IWM only brought 2 to Origins, and I bought them both Thursday morning. 8)
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I don't know about that, but I do know that IWM only brought 2 to Origins, and I bought them both Thursday morning. 8)
Bless you, sir. Let's keep loving that 'Mech like no other. It's a favorite in my neck o' the woods.
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Ordered one a few weeks back. Now for a paint scheme worthy of it...
Maybe Green Ghost?
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Ordered one a few weeks back. Now for a paint scheme worthy of it...
Maybe Green Ghost?
That could work.
Or we could establish a new CBS paint scheme for the Clan's survivors. The writers may not know it, but we know they are out there somewhere!
Has there been an Omega Galaxy? If not, then it would seem fitting.
And whatever the paint scheme, please no orange! :D ;D (except as a highlight, maybe)
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Orange with black highlights and blood splatters on the legs!
Modified for spelling...stupid smart phone.
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Or we could establish a new CBS paint scheme for the Clan's survivors. The writers may not know it, but we know they are out there somewhere!
I like this idea. What do people think this scheme should look like? IMO having red comwhere would be a good start ;D
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There's been an Omega, but as that's a moot point anyway, the name IS available. ;)
And hey, technically they never took out the 29th Blood Drinkers, so it looks like my little quasi-canon Cluster may be sporting your new colors now! :)
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I like this idea. What do people think this scheme should look like? IMO having red comwhere would be a good start ;D
I believe I've already answered ;D
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Any combo involving red is fine
Just no black and blue ;)
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Any combo involving red is fine
Just no black and blue ;)
Yeah, can't stand that black with blue highlights paint scheme :P
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Yeah, can't stand that black with blue highlights paint scheme :P
I think I had a merc unit painted up with that scheme at one point.
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Yeah, can't stand that black with blue highlights paint scheme :P
Look I like my favored faction, but when it comes to paint schemes we are about as vanilla as can be. Black with blue and a touch of a little something else for each galaxy. At that point just paint everything SLDF olive green and stop pretending you buy into the whole clan thing.
Y'all got cool colors, the white with red scheme is sweet.
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The Nova Cats are the IS equivalent to the Blood Spirits - they just didn't fit in anymore and so... had to go.
Both got their butts kicked by the Draconis Combine?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Look I like my favored faction, but when it comes to paint schemes we are about as vanilla as can be. Black with blue and a touch of a little something else for each galaxy. At that point just paint everything SLDF olive green and stop pretending you buy into the whole clan thing.
Y'all got cool colors, the white with red scheme is sweet.
We don't pick our Clans because of paint schemes, we pick our Clan because of how we identify ourselves with them. That and they are really cool in the fiction.
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Plus ours has really cool paint schemes... so, we have that going for us... yea :-[
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We don't pick our Clans because of paint schemes, we pick our Clan because of how we identify ourselves with them. That and they are really cool in the fiction.
Well obviously, I picked the Adders after the Jags died cuz they were the opposite of the Jags. I still like the Jags in their era. When the Adders die (and I'm pretty sure they will) I'll pick someone different, still love the Adders in their day, and the Jags in theirs.
And yes... you get awesome paint schemes
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Just an idea: "Redlegs" or "Sable and Sanguine"
Primary color: Panzer gray
Legs: Red (Scarlet? or darker, like Sanguine [a dark blood red]?)
Broad black band on each upper arm / pod as a pointed reminder of our dead.
Numerals would be white, on the right leg and left black arm band. (The mech's right and left, not the viewers)
Clan emblem on left chest or shoulder, depending on the mech.
The paint scheme is a tad dark, but not too much, and it wouldn't be hard to paint highlights.
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I believe I've already answered ;D
Hey, I never said we couldn't go with that O0
Just an idea: "Redlegs" or "Sable and Sanguine"
Primary color: Panzer gray
Legs: Red (Scarlet? or darker, like Sanguine [a dark blood red]?)
Broad black band on each upper arm / pod as a pointed reminder of our dead.
Numerals would be white, on the right leg and left black arm band. (The mech's right and left, not the viewers)
Clan emblem on left chest or shoulder, depending on the mech.
The paint scheme is a tad dark, but not too much, and it wouldn't be hard to paint highlights.
I also like this idea. I'm a huge fan of putting something in the scheme as a reminder of what we've lost.
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Just a quick update of my Blood Spirit campaign.
Zeta Galaxy ended up sending two of it's standard clusters, one of it's militia clusters and two of it's spare Protomech trinaries to raid the Coyotes and Stone Lions while the rest of the Zeta Galaxy began the final preparation to evacuate the Colleen system. The first raid went off without a hitch, netting the Blood Spirits a Clan Starlord and two Clan Invaders and several Dropships at a loss of only two trinaries of mixed troops. Then the Zeta Galaxy raiders split up, one of the standard clusters returning to Colleen with their prizes and one of their own ships while the rest of the force split up across three Jumpships. Two of them, including the bulk of the two remaining clusters and one of the Protomech trinaries went off to hit the Stone Lions. The third ship, carrying roughly seven stars of mixed forces and the second spare Protomech trinary was sent to investigate a rumor of Steel Viper survivors scavenging on York.
The raid against the Stone Lions did not do as well as hoped for, losing the Blood Spirits half their force but they succeeded in grabbing the prize of a Clan Odyssey Jumpship. The smallest group found the Steel Viper survivors who agreed to surrender to the Blood Spirits without further contest after their commander was defeated in single Combat by the Blood Spirit commander. They found out this group was connected to more Steel Viper survivors who had hidden themselves away at an ancient and unknown staging base in an uninhabited system near New Kent. Risking being left behind these Blood Spirits swiftly went to this supposed base and gave the Steel Vipers survivors the option to surrender to the Blood Spirits or be annihilated. The Steel Vipers surrendered after another quick one on one trial and revealed that the base had been used by the Society as a stockpile during the WoR, where a number of WMD - mostly persistent nerve agents - had been seized when the Steel Vipers had thought to check out their old base. The survivors were doing an inventory when the the entire Viper annihilation took and didn't find out their Clan had been destroyed until after the fact. They had been scavenging various "lost" worlds hoping they could find enough supplies to make a journey to the Jarnfolk and an uncertain future. Initially taking the Steel Vipers at their word, the Blood Spirits still felt uneasy about some of what the Steel Vipers had said and decided to look around further and quickly discovered that while most of the group were Steel Vipers that there were some with loyalties to the Society, and that they had conned the rest of the Steel Vipers into staying at the base when the recall orders came in during the Steel Viper annihilation. Confronting the Society frauds, they found out that this base held genetic material from the Steel Vipers (roughly 75% of their legacies) and several other Clans existing as a clearing house of sorts between Society factions. Once the genetic material and WMD were stowed away, the Blood Spirits executed the Society group and made bondsmen of the Steel Vipers inducting the warriors quickly to add another two binaries worth of Mechwarriors, a Star of Aerospace and a mixed star of Armor/Conventional Infantry to their force.
Meanwhile the rest of Zeta arrived back to the Colleen system just days before a large force of Cloud Cobras did. Still in the process of loading up the Blood Spirits offered the Cloud Cobras a simple deal. Let the Blood Spirits finish their evacuation in peace and they'd give their space yard over to the Cobras intact. The Cloud Cobras salivating at the chance of taking the space yard intact dickered with Blood Spirits. Eventually an agreement was reached that the Cloud Cobras would let the Blood Spirits leave without the Cloud Cobras taking any action against them for three months in return for the Blood Spirits space yard and the infrastructure of Honor and Haven being left intact. For a week the the fleet assembled and then was joined by the stragglers of Zeta finally arriving from their mission to Steel Viper space and the whole force left, unmolested by the Cloud Cobras.
After leaving leaving Clan space, the Zeta Galaxy fleet took an alternative route to trailing the trail the main body of the Clan had previously taken - staying in deep space space and using their fusion engines to recharge their drives. They reached the rendezvous point unmolested (lucky devils) and hooked up with a Blood Spirit scout Jumper that had been left there to guide them in.
Next game (ten minutes from now) we'll be linking up the scouts, main body and rear guard and seeing what the Clan does from here. More later, after the game.
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thanks for the update, very nice read!
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Looks like it's been a lot of fun!
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And that's a wrap for this part of the campaign.
Highlights:
- The Star Adders get into a skirmish with the handful of Blood Spirits left on Strana Mechty trying to get answers of what the wayward Clan is up to but fail to pin them down. (the players skillfully beat the players being the Star Adders) Sadly, there is no way out for them and ultimately perish fighting the Star Adders.
- The Blood Spirits got Abjured, the Star Adders are slightly annoyed with the Cloud Cobras but both the Coyotes and Stone Lions pragmatically backed the Cobras motion in the GC in exchange for territory on Haven and Honor. The Cloud Cobras are ecstatic despite the shipyard they got needs allot of work to bring it online.
- Frustrated by the Blood Spirits actions, the Star Adders continue chasing down the Blood Spirits with a two Galaxy (seven Clusters) task force backed by a Warship Star (5 Warships). Unfortunately for them, they get led off the path of the main body by mistake, then compounding the mistake by deciding the Blood Spirits are heading towards the Inner Sphere instead of away from it. The players got soooooo lucky the Star Adders flubbed all three of their navigation checks.
- The recon force and main body of the Blood Spirits meet up two jumps away from the previously mentioned periphery independents while the Clan watch oversees an investigation of the locals. They discover that the world they're interested in is disputed between the locals and a nearby Periphery Proto-State and that both the locals and the Proto-State have sizeable if primitive (Age of War) equipped armies.
- Further investigation reveals the Proto-State has seven worlds over six systems. Two of the worlds are disputed (the one above and another with an ongoing resistance outside of a single fortified city/spaceport. The other five worlds are all loyal to the local despot who is the descendant of pirates once sponsored by Comstar during the 3rd Succession War and went rogue after finding a pair of secret army worlds - one with a factory and the other with a depot and used the resources to found their own state by conquering the neighbors one world at a time.
- Discussions concerning the planned invasion of their initial target broaden to taking on the entire Proto-State but they learn of the Homeworld Clans Abjurement of the Blood Spirits when the Rear Guard arrive, so it is decided that the Clan needs to put more distance between them and the Homeworlds. Instead of a full out invasion, they decide to "liberate" the two contested worlds and make some sort of accommodation with the locals in exchange for supplies and landing rights (so the civs can have a quick stretch in some fresh air)
And that's it for the Blood Spirits side of the campaign for a bit for our summer break.
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I have to ask, what units have the Blood Spirits escaped with in your campaign?
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That's a difficult question. In our game, the WoR progressed differently. By the end of the WoR the Blood Spirits were the third largest remaining Clan, just ahead of the Goliath Scorpions and behind the Star Adders and Cloud Cobras with the Coyotes and Stone Lions trailing the pack. No unit in it's FM CruClans or FM Updates form survived the WoR except the Blood Guard Keshik and even then, it's been reformed twice. Before the Goliath Scorpion Abjurement, the Blood Spirits fielded five under strength Galaxies and four (six) Warships. Equipment wise they're all over the place.
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As fluffed our Clan 's warriors generally do not show much initiativebelow Star Colonel. What do you think that the Clan does with warriors that show more independence? I am thinking of creating a unit full of warriors that other Blood Spirit commanders do not want because they show much more initiative than many commanders want.
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Oh they don't get sent off somewhere, unit commanders prize such warriors and look to find a good spot in the unit for them. Its warriors like those, the ones that show initiative that earn Bloodnames and promotions that eventually work there way up to Star Colonel.
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They are named Hunter Lewis and trial to become the Galaxy commander of Upsilon Galaxy [rockon]
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Oh they don't get sent off somewhere, unit commanders prize such warriors and look to find a good spot in the unit for them. Its warriors like those, the ones that show initiative that earn Bloodnames and promotions that eventually work there way up to Star Colonel.
Or, like the story behind Mara, gets assigned a Blood Named warrior not quite of command rank to keep an eye on her,
because,frankly, her commanders are a bit nervous about her dezgra but effective tactics involving ambushes, indirect
fire, and artillery....(Well..that and her mental instability tending towards psychopathy from the EI...talking about
a character who, when training some Protoemch warriors saw them messing up, and after the training in the middle
of the verbal beatdown casually turned and broke the neck of the offending protomech pilot with a warning of "And
if any of you screw up like that again, I will shoot you myself.")
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Wow, now that's a sign of Malvina-hood in the making if I ever saw one. I always played Ford Campbell as the serious loner type with few words and utterly scary in a fight. I also played him as one of the Clan's older warriors who was good enough that retirement wasn't an option and he was gonna die in the saddle. I even used a pic of Lee Van Cleef from the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly as his portrait.
Best part is in our old Clan Campaign he actually survived the WoR and went missing.
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Wow, now that's a sign of Malvina-hood in the making if I ever saw one.
Well..when I created Mara, it was right around 3064 timeline wise....she hasn't died in battle, and has made all the
rolls for EI degradation out to 3080(stopped making the rolls at that point....). I figure, though, the crazy caused by
EI would start coming to bear...
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How many c varient vee's are there? I can't check on the mul.
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Well, this is probably late but...
Surprisingly few.
There's the Badger and the Bandit, the Maxim, Thor Artillery Vehicle, the Pike (strangely enough), and the Demolisher.
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i think the game terminax is playing would make a great story line
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Well, this is probably late but...
Surprisingly few.
There's the Badger and the Bandit, the Maxim, Thor Artillery Vehicle, the Pike (strangely enough), and the Demolisher.
I could see the badger and bandit since they came from the goons. I'm just surprised there aren't many Sl era C refits. I mean, I know what I would do with some of them as a CBS player. There just has to be a bunch sitting in a cache' somewhere waiting to be refit.
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not sure about a C variant, but the Kestrel is fluffed as being 'resurrected' by the dragoons for their mission ... so you could get a couple of those from a cache.
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I could see the badger and bandit since they came from the goons. I'm just surprised there aren't many Sl era C refits. I mean, I know what I would do with some of them as a CBS player. There just has to be a bunch sitting in a cache' somewhere waiting to be refit.
We know from WoRS that the Society used more vees than anything and that they stole them from caches. There probably were a ton of them laying around, there may not be a ton of them left after the 3080's though.
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I was actually thinking pre-WoR. Poorer clans like ours might try to overhaul and update some old favorites. I mean, imagine what could be done to a Von Luckner... I've already done it and let me tell you it's bad ass.
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I really liked the Blood Spirits. They were a pretty unique clan. Them and the Mandrills.
One of the things I like about the Battletech universe is that they're ok with eliminating factions and actually advancing the universe. But I feel like they eliminated two of the more unique factions among the clans in favor of letting some of the less unique ones continue to exist.
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The Blood Spirits have a very small yet vocal fanbase. But I like to think that its still bigger than the preWoR Star Adder fanbase. The Star Adders have always been too lucky.
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The Blood Spirits have a very small yet vocal fanbase. But I like to think that its still bigger than the preWoR Star Adder fanbase. The Star Adders have always been too lucky.
When I talked about less interesting and unique clans that I would have much rather seen eliminated I was more or less hinting at the Adders.
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Actually I think the Star Adders are the perfect "Generic" Clan. You can take a group of Star Adders and use them in any combination and it works. Even their camo schemes are essentially all the same. There, well generic.
But that's just my opinion. ;)
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Actually I think the Star Adders are the perfect "Generic" Clan.
Yes indeed! A Clan everyone loves to beat up on! *cracks knuckles* 8)
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Don't the Star Adders have their own thread?
We're having one or two more sessions it looks like before we wrap up for a month. I'm stuck in a quandry. I raised the bar on the opposition probably a little too much but I'm finding it hard to scale it back.
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Then hit 'em hard and take it easier on the survivors. That's what I do.
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Don't the Star Adders have their own thread?
We're having one or two more sessions it looks like before we wrap up for a month. I'm stuck in a quandry. I raised the bar on the opposition probably a little too much but I'm finding it hard to scale it back.
Players should be able to rise to the challenge. Otherwise, you are merely coddling them, and they will never learn what
it is like to defeat "superior" foes.
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I could see the badger and bandit since they came from the goons. I'm just surprised there aren't many Sl era C refits. I mean, I know what I would do with some of them as a CBS player. There just has to be a bunch sitting in a cache' somewhere waiting to be refit.
Its sort of something that's in the back of my mind as well, with all the Star League designs, not just the vehicles. You'd think that even if they didn't go out of their way to make (C) versions, that they would pop up over time as parts wore out and got replaced by what the Clan is making, rather than having to dig through a Brian Cache for replacement parts. You lose your ERPPC on your Black Knight, do you go looking everywhere for a standard Star League ERPPC to replace it, or do you replace it with the(somewhat) abundant Clan ERPPC you have lying around in stock (certain Clans perhaps excepted).
It gets even more confusing when you realize that when the Clans invaded, they stripped captured machines of their IS weapons and replaced them with Clantech weaponry, yet they don't seem to do it to their battle damaged Star League designs.
Of course, you could argue that they do use Clantech to repair the old Star League designs, its just done in such a haphazard way that there's never been a standardized (C) version of the design, since each refit is different.
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That could very well be it... "Hey tech, My ERPPC took a few hits that last battle with the Adders. It needs replaced."
"Yes, Sir. We are all out of Clan made ERPPC's but we have an abundance of clan made ERLL. Will that suffice Qei?"
Players should be able to rise to the challenge. Otherwise, you are merely coddling them, and they will never learn what
it is like to defeat "superior" foes.
I totally agree, however, one of my players seems to think that every one is after him and no one is supporting him... It doesn't help that he thinks the way to play is charging head first into a battle...
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I totally agree, however, one of my players seems to think that every one is after him and no one is supporting him... It doesn't help that he thinks the way to play is charging head first into a battle...
Wait, that isn't a valid tactic? ;)
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Wait, that isn't a valid tactic? ;)
It's a valid tactic, just doesn't lead to long term survival ;)
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Actually I think the Star Adders are the perfect "Generic" Clan. You can take a group of Star Adders and use them in any combination and it works. Even their camo schemes are essentially all the same. There, well generic.
But that's just my opinion. ;)
Whoa, we're now slightly less generic than the Bears and Wolves! As far has being clan normal, so many clans were so over characatured that there had to be a few generic clans. It's telling that the clans that survived the Reavings on both sides of the divide are the more level headed clans. The devs seem to have gone with in universe common sense over fan favorites.
And yes there is an Adder thread, but Spirit fans are more active and have better conversations like Hegists's vehicle refit ideas. I'm all for clantech weapons on SL era vees. You could do some mean things.
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I should do a fan tro... maybe not after my buddy Steves 3063...
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Go for it Hengist.
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I should do a fan tro... maybe not after my buddy Steves 3063...
Absolutely! Set it during the 3070's in the homeworlds and fill it with mothballed and cobbled together stuff. Maybe a few new omni configs (if that's allowed). I'd support it
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Would it be a Blood Spirit TRO or a Homeworlds/WoR TRO?
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Tell you the truth i haven't really thought about it much. My friend got a really negative backlash on his. If i were to do it i think it would be spirit centric but I'd also do early testbeds... stuff you might see CHH of CGS use too.
Oh gods... I'm actually thinking about this... wonderful, like I need another project.
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Oh your going to do it, it might take along time but you will do it. :)
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I actually already have a folder in HMP and vee for Sl upgrades for CBS... ugh #P
It would only take fluffing things out, talking about early upgrades after Klondike and the stuff on York... the Hoplite is so nice...
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I've got a support vehicle variant of the Kestrel (Tech Level E). No weapons, but it makes a great SAR transport.
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Pick a couple of mechs that never got the IIc treatment and upgrade those as well. I could see the Spirits pulling some old mechs like the Crab and upgrading those with Clan Tech for second line troops to use in the defense of York.
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Pick a couple of mechs that never got the IIc treatment and upgrade those as well. I could see the Spirits pulling some old mechs like the Crab and upgrading those with Clan Tech for second line troops to use in the defense of York.
Didn't Colleen Schmitt pilot a Black Knight? You know y'all you IIC any you had hanging out... scary. Heck, you've got a Flashman in your sig, IIC that little light bulb.
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Find the one Devastator that survived the Pentagon Campaign and go to town. ;)
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Wait, that isn't a valid tactic? ;)
Valid for Clans and Kurita...not so much for anyone else.
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Didn't Colleen Schmitt pilot a Black Knight? You know y'all you IIC any you had hanging out... scary. Heck, you've got a Flashman in your sig, IIC that little light bulb.
She piloted a highlander. The black knight pic of her was wrong.
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She piloted a highlander. The black knight pic of her was wrong.
And what a Highlander it was...I wish Blood Spirit still made the old "prototype Streaks"...I would much
rather use those then the current streak launchers anyday! On that Highlander? They proved how beastly
evil they were!
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She piloted a highlander. The black knight pic of her was wrong.
I do recall that now. So what, we know they had Black knights, Flashman, Archers, and bung of other stuff. Don't even need to be IIC, they could just be C refits that make sense.
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Exactly. C refits with no wasted tonnage.
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Exactly. C refits with no wasted tonnage.
You're slowly talking yourself into this aren't you?
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You're slowly talking yourself into this aren't you?
Yea... i think I am...
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What you should do is create a section for notable pilots using people you know. I'm certain there are a few people you would like to immortalize in a fan TRO, and maybe a few to make fun of as well. ;)
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Notable Mechwarrior : Star capt. Hanse Steiner of Clan Cloud Cobra.
Hanse was the cultural atache' from CCC to CBS. He was their responce to the ilChi progran of the Spirits. During the Golden Century of the Clans existance Star Capt. Steiner piloted an Excalibur....
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Actually I was thinking of Mara or some notable people from the SCA. Not me. Besides, Cloud Cobra? I get no respect!
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I've been accused of exactly the same condition
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It was just a thought.
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I'd like to interject quickly, I disagree with my Clan's problem with the Spirits as well as the writers handling of the Spirits in WoR.
In case that doesn't work.. my name is, uh, Joe... um, Smith, yeah. Joe Smith, that's me. Just in case you decide you need a mech to blow up after the first step with a "notable" pilot aboard. :D
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Exactly. C refits with no wasted tonnage.
Heck even do straight up swaps ... maybe only upgrading lasers to pulse and LRM/SRM's to larger launchers.
You still get a pretty cool mech. A Crab with ER Lasers? YES, Please ... just have to bracket fire at times.
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Doesn't matter, any Star Adder needs to fall in some pointless and odd (or at least amusing) manner to make a Blood Spirit giggle.
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New update from my game. We ran three battles today. The first two each representing a skirmish between the Blood Spirits and the periphery proto-nation they've taken cause against. The first two battles were each against a defensive strong point (one was a fort, the other an aerospace base) with it's garrison. The defender had the option to retreat certain forces off the board, and if they did so they could be used for a future battle - set in the major city. The third battle was a space battle between reinforcements from the proto-nation vs elements of the Blood Spirit fleet. Any forces that got through would be available for next week's fighting.
The first fight went terribly for the Blood Spirit players, who vastly underestimated the forces they needed. They sent an single Nova of Battlemechs & Elementals plus two points of Combat Vees, 3 points of Protomechs and a point of Aerospace. The defenders had an expanded company of Militiamechs, an extended heavy tank company and two companies of conventional infantry plus the fort itself which had four heavy turret towers and a heavily armored block house housing two sniper artillery in a turret plus a curtain wall and trench works AND a mine field. The Combat Vees and Protomechs tried picking their way through the mine field, but suffered heavy casualties doing so under fire by the defender's artillery. The Nova tried a flanking attack but the defenders tanks and militiamechs actually held them at bay. By the time the combat was over, the defenders lost only one tower and had a couple of holes through their walls and lost not even a quarter of their overall forces.
The second fight was much more in the favor the Blood Spirits who hit with a full trinary of Battlemechs (9) and Protomechs (30), a Star of Elementals and an Aerospace Star. The defenders had two extended companies of light armor, two companies of Conventional Infantry and a two squadrons of conventional fighters (36) and a flight of Primitive Aerospace (6) plus six armed bunkers surrounding the aerospace base. There were also command detonated mines in several patches, mainly around the armed bunkers. The defenders had a CAP of six Conventional Fighters in the air while launching two more a turn. The Primitive Aerospace needed five turns to begin to get airborne. The Blood Spirits Aerospace utterly massacre the defenders CFs in less than two turns and begin bombing the heck of of the aerospace base, knocking out most of CFs and Primitive ASF before they can get off the ground. Meanwhile on the ground the Blood Spirits Battlemechs and Protomechs split into three stars of 3/2 points respectively and square off against the defending forces. I swear, each turn saw a lance and a half of the defenders vees explode and a platoon of infantry massacred. Nearly the entire defender garrison was wiped out - only the remnants of three platoons and two lances of combat vees managed to withdraw off board.
Third fight was the shortest yet most brutal fight. The Blood Spirits defended the planet with a single warship and a star of dropships with three trinaries of aerospace fighters. The proto-nation attacked using a half dozen primitive dropships (all aerodyne transports of the same type) and two squadrons of primitive aerospace fighters plus a squadron of small craft assault craft each armed with a nuclear tipped anti-ship missile. Not a single proto-nation fighter or small craft would survive the battle. The nukes were almost all intercepted by PD, except for one which missed. One Primitive Dropship made it to make planetfall. The Blood Spirits took negligible damage.
Next weekend, we'll have the big city fight.
On the RPG side of things, the Blood Spirits have sent one of their four galaxies off to the other disputed world. They've also impressed (terrified) the locals of the industrial planet enough that they're being given the basic supplies their fleet needs. The locals aren't sure about the Blood Spirits except they know they don't want to tick them off. The Blood Spirits have mixed feelings. They don't consider the the Deep Periphery denizens to be the same as spheroids but there's a glint in the players eyes that they may yet just try to conquer the place.
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Well gents, I need your help. Its not a Blood Spirit scenario, but a nice little historical one I need to set up for early next month. I'm finishing off our Klondike Campaign with the Wolverine Annihilation and I want to do the last stand at Barbados's. Essentially I plan two Stars of Wolverines and three Stars of Wolves (One of the Wolf Stars is already made up) on a vast satellite map of some Pine/woodlands. What I need your help with is the make-up of the Wolves and the Spirits and what would you guys think their Piloting and Gunnery should be and any good idea's for conditions. Anyone have any ideas to through out there?
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I'd throw in some Mercurys and Mercury II's ... and Stags for the Wolverines. They're fast enough to keep the Wolves occupied longer for their fleet to make further progress towards escape.
Try the Pulverized with it's Enhanced ER PPC ... see if it's really that much better than a standard ER PPC.
oooh and create a 100 ton version of the Orca (previous april fools joke iirc, it was a 200 ton mech) ... that'll surprise the Wolves.
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Last night: Rather than wait for the other battles to resolve, the available players sent Blood Guard Keshik plus Alpha and Beta Galaxies plus their Heavy Cruiser and one of their Frigates off to the capital world of the proto-nation and blasted their way to the surface, killing the ruler and his immediate family save his infant child (who the Blood Spirits made a baby bondsman out of) and forcing a surrender upon the proto-nation. Tentatively diplomatic efforts through an Ilchi have been made to form a new government from the various worlds (including the ones they've liberated/going to liberate) and have a peaceful transition to a Blood Spirit friendly democracy...
Tonight: ...BLAM... I just murdered that idea. The conquered proto-nation government, Alpha and Beta Galaxy have just been nuked by a dozen warheads in an attempt by the proto-nation's elite forces and regular forces surviving generals to overwhelm the Blood Spirits in an all out attack. Three Clusters are basically gone (2/3tds to 3/4s destroyed), two more badly damaged (1/3 to 1/2 destroyed) and those who surrendered the proto-nation to the Blood Spirits are dead. When we resume from our dinner break at 6pm, we'll see how the Blood Spirits will react. I expect nothing short of an absolute massacre.
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@Terminax... ouch!
@Stormlion pilots 3/4 with one a 2/3. The wolves and spirits are veterans of Klondike.These guys should reflect that.
As far as mechs go... fast hard hitting mediums and heavies. Royal shads and griffins excaliburs.., maybe the Star commander wiuld have an exterminator from klondike.
For the Spirits... I'd go with heavier, slower support type mechs since that would be their roll. A highlander of cource, archer, warhammer, stalker, thunderbolt.
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I got a PM asking me why I don't name the proto-nation or get into its details. I don't feel this thread is the appropriate venue for that. Eventually a full write up will be done in the non-canon unit forum. I also got some very upset comments from a couple of my players about the nukes but the more experienced players took it all in stride. What can I say? They had warning this Deep Periphery power had nukes and weren't afraid to use them to even the odds. I can't say I did it lightly either but they wanted things to end too pat for my liking and after some thought, I didn't think the proto-nations military (and internal security forces) were quite as willing to roll over as the surviving political leadership was. I also thought the players weren't getting as much push back as they should, particularly since they lucked out with the Homeworld Clans especially the Star Adders haven't shown up, I wanted to see how'd they do.
Anyways, after the nuking the Blood Spirits retaliated wholesale. The Blood Guard and what was left of Alpha Galaxy fought the Battlemech equipped "Elite" of the proto-nation - around three battalions of 3025/SL era Battlemechs (the rest is off world spread across the Empire or died already)... within six hours the "Elite" were smashed. Beta Galaxy clusters had been spread out and were under assault by the proto-nations internal security forces (basically a paramilitary army) and a few regular army units. Though heavily pressed, they turned back every assault inflicting heavy damage to the locals.
(also to note, the players owe me battles during the week while I'm working. All these will have representative battles)
Meanwhile the Warships got extremely busy tearing apart the Proto-nations primitive jumpship fleet. Now I know how JS fared during the 1st Succession War. When the marines were sent to take their primitive spaceyard, nuclear scuttling charges went off, severely damaging much of the facility and denying the Clan the most valuable prize. An HPG message was sent back to Gamma and Zeta Galaxies respectively telling them what had occurred. Gamma was ordered to send two Clusters onwards to another Proto-Nation world while Zeta was told the same but to go to the other world. The fourth and final system was to be targeted by a Militia Cluster from Zeta.
In the capital system, two battered Clusters of Beta Galaxy was sent to the systems second world - a farming planet and took it easily.
Thank goodness the Blood Spirits have Sibkos coming due.
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I got too tired to finish the report last night.
At the end of the night, the Blood Spirits had basically broken the back of the proto-nation. Most of the local forces have been either destroyed or disarmed and surviving personnel have been placed into temporary detention camps. The bulk of their military was located in this system. The primitive shipyard for all intents and purposes has been destroyed, the primitive military industries on world were mostly taken intact. The proto-nation's remaining forces are divided amongst four worlds and the Blood Spirits will have forces in each system before they'll get word of their capitol's defeat.
Some discussion has taken place with their "liberated" allies but the people there are stunned and terribly unsure of what to say or do after seeing the proto-nation which has been their central focus for decades just go poof.
I get to deal with some of this today since I'm taking the day off - I got a touch of sunstroke or heat stroke yesterday while working and I'll get back to you guys on any happenings.
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nice to see the Spirit's are creating all kinds of havoc and expanding their territory
;D O0
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My original plan was for the players to establish a friendly neighbor before they moved onto the Coreward Confederacy but that idea lies in tatters and is being stomped further into the ground. The Blood Spirits have now occupied the former proto-nation worlds (five systems, six habitable worlds), and freed from occupation another four systems, two of which have been mentioned before. The other two worlds are lightly inhabited by IS standards - less than a million souls each - that had each had a small garrison that the Blood Spirits took out without any trouble. The proto-nation's worlds and inhabitants are now Blood Spirit property and the Blood Spirits have made a series of agreements with the other four. The new nation's official title is the Blood Spirit Union. There's a further six independent worlds that the proto-nation knew about but hadn't occupied, that they raided or traded with every few years. Debate continues on what the Union will do.
Internally the Union is basically split between the Blood Spirits and the industrial world, with the other three planets all in theory being also equal partners but aren't really. The industrial world has an overly large military for being a single world, call them "space America" if you will. They have an army, aerospace force, (surface) navy, a marine corps but it's all equipped with age of war era technology. "Space America" can't sustain the military at it's current size without an opponent bearing down on it - its populace is tired of conflict and with the threat of the proto-nation gone they'll soon want to downsize in order to refocus on rebuilding. The rebellion world also has it's revolutionary forces but together are a fraction of what the industrial world has. The other two alliance worlds got nothing but aspirations. The deal is to reorganize the Alliance forces along Clan lines but with a more conventional ranking system and organizational changes. Then there's the ex-military forces of the proto-nation that the Blood Spirits are keeping together for a number of reasons - they might suck, but right now the Blood Spirits need every body they can get. They also know they can't risk letting that many military personnel loose to potentially cause havoc. The Blood Spirits have essentially segregated these remnant forces from their own and will orient them to the Clan way, viewing them sort of like wayward children and recruits who don't know any better. The best of them will be culled and incorporated into the Blood Spirits Touman eventually/
The Blood Spirits themselves are exhausted and badly need at least three to five years to reorganize themselves. The players are planning a relocation of all the Clan population to the former capital binary system of the proto-nation while relocating the natives to the other three systems and establishing enclaves on each of it's allied worlds but that'll take decades to do it all. Militarily, the Clan is in rough shape. All four of it's Galaxies are about 50% of what they were when they left the Homeworlds and replacement equipment is scarce. Salvage from their recent conquest will help, but the Clan won't stoop to using the proto-nation's militiamechs. Personnel wise they're in much better shape. They've got an accelerated training program that'll see them get three clusters worth of troops from the Sibkos and another cluster, maybe two out of recruiting from lower castes but they just don't have the equipment to outfit them out yet.
Technology wise, the Blood Spirits bring allot to the table. They've got centuries of experience of getting every last ounce out of what they got to work with and for the first time in generations they've got access to more resources than they could hope to ever use. The technological advantages they can share with the alliance worlds will greatly benefit everyone and if integration proceeds well, the Blood Spirit Union will be potent indeed. The greatest asset the Clan possesses, are the various mobile facilities it possesses, including the Society space station which is a Godsend after the partial destruction of the proto-nation's shipyard. The Clan figures it can setup a temporary facility within a year and have a permanent facility started in two years with full production resuming in five. The Union has chosen to mothball all the primitive jumpships and dropship it captured in favor of using the Clan fleet until they can be scrapped for material and re-manufactured into modern vessels. They got quite a few primitive factories out of the proto-nation but it's most likely they too will be scrapped and re-made because updating the facilities as they are to Clan standards is just about impossible. That said the Blood Spirits did bring what they could from the Homeworlds. Aerospace Fighter, Battlemech and Omnimech production are all desperately need and are a focus of much effort to get going. Protomech and Battlearmor facilities will come online soon, as will vehicle production. The allies also bring considerable industrial capability but it's AoW level of technology again makes it difficult for upgrading wholesale.
All in all, they've got potential but they also have internal disputes to settle. The alliance is shaky, with nobody yet convinced that it's going to last. The Blood Spirits still have divisions over what some view their Khan. His Bloodline is considered poor by the traditional powers that be and the uprising he crushed during the flight from the Homeworlds didn't endear him to the Clan as a whole. He's seen a transitory Khan at best and while he still has a few years left it before pressure becomes too great. He may surprise his detractors yet though. To keep his opponents from coalescing he's sending out units on missions that will take months to accomplish while he consolidates the Clan and his power base. The biggest hurdle facing the Union isn't the proto-nation worlds, theyv'e accepted Clan rule quite readily, might makes right was already part of their lives but instead it's the industrial and rebellion worlds. The industrial world is extremely wary of the Blood Spirits. They suspect something is going on that the Blood Spirits haven't explained yet. The rebellion world likes the BS but it's far from a unified world itself so it's divisions of it's own to deal with.
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I just got and read Wars of Reaving ... I was ok with most of what happened. I think it was cheesy for the SA to down us the way they did.
Ok, why did every clan go ape-spit over the Vipers ... for the Adders??? I mean, it was a Star Adder mission, but every other clan sacrificed themselves for the Adders ... who had the largest and most capable touman anyway.
Wouldn't it have made a modicum of sense to let the Adders and Vipers beat the snot out of each other first?
Either way, the Diamond Sharks really did kick us in the groin early on.
Ok, done with the rehash of the very beginning of the thread.
*** back to Terminax. Do the Spirits get that primitive does not mean useless? ... Mech Mortars, Rifles, RL's ... I could see some Spirit created militia units being allowed to use massed fire. Medium and Heavy Rifles are poor weapons, but they can still hurt. I've got a 39ton hover craft moving 7/11 with a primitive engine, primitive armor, and a Heavy Rifle ... It doesn't seem worth upgrading b/c it still does its job.
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I think at the end every Clan had something to prove and that was that they were still strong and by pitting themselves with the Vipers they proved themselves still strong. Any Clan that didn't would be seen as either weak or supporting the Steel Vipers and then hence next on the docket for annihilation or absorption. The Spirits lost too much fighting the Vipers I think and it cost them later.
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I think at the end every Clan had something to prove and that was that they were still strong and by pitting themselves with the Vipers they proved themselves still strong. Any Clan that didn't would be seen as either weak or supporting the Steel Vipers and then hence next on the docket for annihilation or absorption. The Spirits lost too much fighting the Vipers I think and it cost them later.
The Spirits sacrificed the most to destroy the Vipers. Would that that had been held in consideration when the votes against
them were being considered. They lost half their Touman, and then could not start new Sibkos for YEARS after the WoR
due to the inspections to make sure the Society had not corrupted their genetics. Frankly, it almost seems like they were
set up for the fall that hit them. I wonder if there is anyway that Adder Watch agents in the Cloud Cobras in the enclaves
the Cobras trialed for in the Coleen system could have caused the catastrophe that killed one of the planets?
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caused the quakes? ... nah, I like the natural disaster at the worst possible moment scenario. Although, you'd think that some sort of exo-geoligist would have been making sure both planets were stable.
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Ok, why did every clan go ape-spit over the Vipers ... for the Adders??? I mean, it was a Star Adder mission, but every other clan sacrificed themselves for the Adders ... who had the largest and most capable touman anyway.
Because the ilKhan said to do it. The ilKhan is the Clan war leader; you do what he says, no questions asked. The Annihilation of the Vipers was not a coalition of Clans for the hell of it. It was a combined Clan army under the leadership of their war leader - just like REVIVAL.
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Because the ilKhan said to do it. The ilKhan is the Clan war leader; you do what he says, no questions asked. The Annihilation of the Vipers was not a coalition of Clans for the hell of it. It was a combined Clan army under the leadership of their war leader - just like REVIVAL.
And KLONDIKE.
It also made perfect sense. Honestly, I think that if the Vipers had not given the Adders a reason to, they would have
made one. The Wars of Reaving were brutal and divisive to the Clans. One of the best ways to unite a group is to give
them a common enemy. The Vipers were, frankly, the BEST common enemy: Too strong for any one group to take on
alone, but perfectly capable of being taken down by all the surviving Clans working together. They were also the Adders
only remaining rival for power in the Homeworlds at this point. The Vipers had to die for the Adder agenda of being the
kings of the Homeworlds to be fulfilled.
Blood Spirit's jumping into the Viper guns to crash through and defeat the SDS around the Viper capitol was just a
welcome side benefit for the Adders. It could just as easily have been the Coyotes going to prove their loyalty.
Or the Cloud Cobras could have tried to break it, as they were, with the Ravens gone, the Masters of Aerospace
left in the Homeworlds. Instead, the Spirits became the ones who paid the price of a mile for the Adders.
(Also..I will say that I find it refreshing that Ben still follows our threads, and will post to them, even if it is just a simple
post like that.)
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Instead, the Spirits became the ones who paid the price of a mile for the Adders.
I had the feeling at that point of writing that the Spirits would jump out in front and lead the way due to their arrogance (thanks to Karianna) and need to validate themselves as a military power after the brutality of the WoR.
(Also..I will say that I find it refreshing that Ben still follows our threads, and will post to them, even if it is just a simple
post like that.)
O0
Pretty sure you'll all hate me in three years, though.
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What do you mean in 3 years? ;)
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Pretty sure you'll all hate me in three years, though.
Gesh, you're going to make 'em worry and fret for years in advance? Are you trying to make everyone feel like a pre-ER:3145 Nova Cat fan? :D
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Trust me, it won't take three years. ;)
I disagree with the Spirits having a need to prove themselves as a military power. They stopped caring what the other Clans thought long before the WoR, and if anything, the WoR should've further reinforced that isolationist mindset. But unfortunately, that particular bad writing choice wasn't mine to make. At least, not in a printed sourcebook. I happily ignore that stupid plot development for all of my own games. :)
And spare us the woe-us-poor-Nova-Cats. We were fretting and worrying long before the writing was on the wall for the kitties. ;)
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Oh hush now.
And spare us the woe-us-poor-Nova-Cats. We were fretting and worrying long before the writing was on the wall for the kitties. ;)
Hush now, we're all part of the Dead Clan Fans club. Arguing over who saw it coming first only makes us sound hipster. #P :D
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I'm fine with that. ;D
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I already have a penchant for french-press coffee I don't need to go down that road any further. Plus the thought of myself in skinny jeans necessitates a good brain bleaching. [wildandcrazy]
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And just so it's said, I was rooting for the Cats and for Katana Tormark. The BT universe is a much less interesting place without our two Clans. :(
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Seyla.
But now let us sit back and watch the madness unfold. An IlClan isn't going to happen without a whole heap of chaos, backstabbing, and destruction. I can't wait. >:D
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Well there is still hope for the Nova Cats, as a Clan for now there dead but survivors did escape. At least two of them that I can think of, one in the FWL and the other that escaped Combine space and it may be possible some may have been within the RoTS when the walls went up. Might be enough to rebuild a Clan if they could all get together in one spot and not get wiped out somehow.
And I still think there are Blood Spirit survivors.
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I had the feeling at that point of writing that the Spirits would jump out in front and lead the way due to their arrogance (thanks to Karianna) and need to validate themselves as a military power after the brutality of the WoR.
O0
Pretty sure you'll all hate me in three years, though.
Ben, the more and more I think about it, the more I think that, ultimately, the death of the Spirits can be put on
no-one other then our beloved Khan. She was a charismatic, inspirational, and a rallying point for a Clan that was
in the depths of its own sort of depression when she took over. And, we followed her gladly down the path that
lead to our own destruction. I really, really think that if we had had another Khan at the time of the Burrock Absorption,
the Spirits might actually have survived the Wars of Reaving.
And, you know what? If we don't hate you for killing the Spirits, I don't think we are going to hate you, no matter
what your project in 3 years is.
I will also say that I agree that the Spirits HAD to prove themselves. They saw the writing on the walls, they knew
that anyone who was weak, would be a target after the Vipers Absorption. It was not that they did not care what
the other Clans thought...they really didn't. What they cared about was would the other Clans use them not giving
a good showing in the Viper Absoption as an excuse to target them, next. And, frankly, they thought they were that
good...I would not call it "arrogance"...I would call it what it ultimately was: "Hubris."
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@Pa Weasley... dont the cats live on in the Spirit Cats? I don't know a lot about 3245 or the dark ages but i got that impression. It's more than what we got.
I wouldn't even call it hubris. I think we had to look like we were strong just so we wouldn't get taken out next. It worked for the falcons after the war with the wolves but didn't work for the hellions or us. We put too much into it.
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Trust me, it won't take three years. ;)
Love you too, Tassa. :P
I disagree with the Spirits having a need to prove themselves as a military power. They stopped caring what the other Clans thought long before the WoR, and if anything, the WoR should've further reinforced that isolationist mindset. But unfortunately, that particular bad writing choice wasn't mine to make. At least, not in a printed sourcebook. I happily ignore that stupid plot development for all of my own games. :)
Poor word choice then. "Need to prove themselves" = "Shit we got hammered over the last few years and if we do not step up and show off how badass we are, they will cream us after the Vipers are done, so we better lead the way and give not the others room to doubt our badassedness."
Oh, and that whole "isolationist mindset" WAS reinforced in the wake of WOR. If the Cobras hadn't sold out Colleen's location to the 'yotes and Lions - and both of those Clans were eager to show they weren't weak to the Adders - the Spirits would still be alive.
But the Cobras sold you out. And the 'yotes and Lions got pissy. And the Adders finished the job.
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Ben, the more and more I think about it, the more I think that, ultimately, the death of the Spirits can be put on
no-one other then our beloved Khan. She was a charismatic, inspirational, and a rallying point for a Clan that was
in the depths of its own sort of depression when she took over. And, we followed her gladly down the path that
lead to our own destruction. I really, really think that if we had had another Khan at the time of the Burrock Absorption,
the Spirits might actually have survived the Wars of Reaving.
And, you know what? If we don't hate you for killing the Spirits, I don't think we are going to hate you, no matter
what your project in 3 years is.
I will also say that I agree that the Spirits HAD to prove themselves. They saw the writing on the walls, they knew
that anyone who was weak, would be a target after the Vipers Absorption. It was not that they did not care what
the other Clans thought...they really didn't. What they cared about was would the other Clans use them not giving
a good showing in the Viper Absoption as an excuse to target them, next. And, frankly, they thought they were that
good...I would not call it "arrogance"...I would call it what it ultimately was: "Hubris."
Poor word choice then. "Need to prove themselves" = "Shit we got hammered over the last few years and if we do not step up and show off how badass we are, they will cream us after the Vipers are done, so we better lead the way and give not the others room to doubt our badassedness."
Oh, and that whole "isolationist mindset" WAS reinforced in the wake of WOR. If the Cobras hadn't sold out Colleen's location to the 'yotes and Lions - and both of those Clans were eager to show they weren't weak to the Adders - the Spirits would still be alive.
But the Cobras sold you out. And the 'yotes and Lions got pissy. And the Adders finished the job.
While Clanners as a whole have a reputation of being headstrong and stubborn when it comes to acts of bravado, the Spirits have long been at or near the leading edge of that reputation. Their losses versus the Vipers just follow the pattern that was long established for them. This led them to be whittled down over time and ultimately led to their death. In an effort to prove to their brethren that they were a force not to be messed with, they over-committed versus the Vipers. Likewise when Khan Karianna went to Arcadia to negotiate for the Bears territories she over-reacted when the Bear's saKhan refused to negotiate. Schmitt threw a fit which resulted in the loss of a jumpship carrying thousands of civilians, the loss of the Rocinante and the bad injuries to Schmitt.
When it came to the Annihilation of the Vipers, every Clan had their individual reasons, but as a whole, each Clan had suffered in some way during the Wars of Reaving. Battles and grudges which had been brewing were kicked into high gear by the Viper ilKhan's Reaving declarations. Every homeworlds Clan had lost units, enclaves, key warriors, etc as a result of the Reaving trials or Society interference. The Spirits in particular had lost 3 galaxies on Tokasha to the Vipers and their ilKhan. That sounds like a good enough reason to me to want retribution.
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Well, that put events in a different light then. Thanks for the clarification/extended explanation, boys. O0
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Pretty sure you'll all hate me in three years, though.
Define "all". All BT fans, all clan fans, or just all Spirit fans?
Cuz if you're going to do something that makes the Spirits mad... should I plan a Ilclan party???
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Get over yourself, Adder. ;)
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attack and get weak
don't attack and look weak
... At least Terminax's (might have to edit this msg if I got the wrong poster ... just wrong spelling that's been fixed!) game is very cool to follow!
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Get over yourself, Adder. ;)
Not act better than everyone else??? That wouldn't be the Adder way. ;)
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Despite their weakened state, the Blood Spirits don't need to use primitive technologies and weapon systems. They have brought the majority of their industrial capability with them in abandoning the Homeworld Clans including Diamond Shark and Snow Raven sourced mobile facilities and a Society space station they gained during the early stages of the campaign. So they'll be able to reestablish a portion of their military industry within a six month to two year window depending on what we're talking about. They have a mobile shipyard which at least allows emergency repairs to their warship fleet but it will be least half a decade before their main shipyard is minimally functional.
I don't see the Blood Spirits adopting the mass production of primitive technology anytime soon. It just isn't part of their mind set. They're all about quality not quantity. They may have resorted to simpler designs than their fellow Clans but that was a matter of resources not ability. The decision to incorporate the manpower of the former proto-state into their touman, segregated as it is came with a determination that the Blood Spirits would rearm them as the ability becomes available. Likewise, part of the deal with their newfound allies is an upgrade program. Generally speaking, as new equipment becomes available, conquered or allied formations will be converted to Clan standards. Specifically there are plans to produce new designs engineered for their conquered and allied forces.
I have to be kind of careful of what I say going forward because I know at least two of my players read the site so I don't want to give them spoilers to the future.
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I won't hate you Ghostbear, but get the hell off of my lawn!
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@Pa Weasley... dont the cats live on in the Spirit Cats? I don't know a lot about 3245 or the dark ages but i got that impression. It's more than what we got.
It depends on how you want to define 'Live on'.
The Fidelis may be descendants of the Smoke Jaguars, but do the Smoke Jaguars continue to live on? The answers going to vary depending on who you ask. The Spirit Cats being a bit closer to the source means you're going to get a bit more variety in the answer to that question. There's the other Nova Cat enclaves still in the Republic, too. With them though, I think it's more like looking at a modern day Irish-American and whether you actually consider him Irish as a nationality.
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Define "all". All BT fans, all clan fans, or just all Spirit fans?
Cuz if you're going to do something that makes the Spirits mad... should I plan a Ilclan party???
Barring all of Clan society turning out to be a bad dream Vic S-D had after eating cold pizza at midnight and watching a Zoobilly Zoo marathon, I think my crotch is already numb enough from repeated kickings to weather another storm. Yay for no skin in the game(?)!
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It depends on how you want to define 'Live on'.
The Fidelis may be descendants of the Smoke Jaguars, but do the Smoke Jaguars continue to live on? The answers going to vary depending on who you ask. The Spirit Cats being a bit closer to the source means you're going to get a bit more variety in the answer to that question. There's the other Nova Cat enclaves still in the Republic, too. With them though, I think it's more like looking at a modern day Irish-American and whether you actually consider him Irish as a nationality.
At least you do live on. We don't even get that much in canon. There is only those of us here and people scattered around that aren't on here that remember. We don't have any enclaves in canon anywhere. Be thankful for what you do get... we don't even get that much.
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At least you do live on. We don't even get that much in canon. There is only those of us here and people scattered around that aren't on here that remember. We don't have any enclaves in canon anywhere. Be thankful for what you do get... we don't even get that much.
For now...
The deep periphery is blacked out so who knows who or what is out there.
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Canon is overrated anyway.
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Canon is overrated anyway.
Oh, I quite agree. Some folks get all upset if you don't quote chapter and verse in canon books though. I have my own take on it all anyway.
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Hey I still have hope that there are Spirit Survivors out there. For the Adders to keep a watch on a set of dead planets they have to be worried about something after all. ;)
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Just to roll with canon, I had my 29th Blood Drinkers (my quasi-canon personal unit) off in the Deep Periphery, with a convoy of civilian ships a la Battlestar Galactica...and now that we have ISP3, such a setup has become a LOT of fun!
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Canon is overrated anyway.
Heck not even Camospecs follows it every time.
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I have a firm belief the Blood Spirits were attempting to salvage there old Battlecruiser, the Rocinante when the Haven system fell to the Adders and that ship and maybe a few other jumpships worth of laborers, techs, and scientist jumped off into the Periphery after the rest of the Spirits fell. The Adders are keeping an eye on the Colleen System more to make sure the surviving Spirits don't come back to salvage what they can then to keep the other Clans away. That's my theory.
That and they conquered the Green Ghosts and are the newest band to take over that organization. ;)
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Canon is overrated anyway.
I totally agree.
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That and they conquered the Green Ghosts and are the newest band to take over that organization. ;)
That's simultaneously awesome and terrifying.
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In the FGC game, I was working on having them merge with the Castilians and Umayyad to form an Imperio analog, Nueva Sangre. I was therefore happy and sad at the same time when the Scorpions did it later in canon. You'd have enjoyed my work in that game, Terminax.
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I would tassa_kay, I would.
I actually feel pretty comfortable with the way my campaign is going at the moment. With the players choosing to conquer/ally where they have, they've deferred the invasion of the Coreward Confederacy by years of in-game time which gives me a much wider time frame to run the other side of the game so the story line I have planned in the Coreward Confederacy can be done without having to rush it and feel forced.
We've actually put off ending the current phase of the game several times now but this Saturday's game will be the last one before a time jump to 30 months + 2D6 months in the future will take place. But that'll be continued after the Coreward Confederacy part of the campaign runs it's course. In the meantime I intend to do a write up of the Blood Spirit Union to that 30 month later mark in my thread in the Non-Canon Units area of the board.
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That's simultaneously awesome and terrifying.
Well I think its a warband with a rolling leadership myself. Strongest guys who show up take over. Started with WoB and they got beat by someone else, then someone beat them, then the Goliath Scorpions show up and take over, then the Spirits show up and kick there rears and now lead the pack. Someday it will be someone else, but if the Spirits have a Black Lion, even a damaged one they might last a bit longer especially if they go back to the Homeworlds and quietly do some salvaging of there own. Heck didn't the Streaking Mist go missing as well? The Green Ghost may have it...
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Good night Wesley. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.
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What aerospace fighters do the Blood Spirits use?
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bah ... um .. the one with the single ER PPC ... 25 tons? ... (hold on, checking sarna ...)
Chaeronea, formerly the Striking Mongoose. 25 tons, speed 11/17, 10 DHS, ER PPC
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You can see Blood Spirit Chaeroneas in combat alongside the Blood Fury on the cover of one of the sourcebooks...can't remember what it is off the top of my head.
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The Spirits sacrificed the most to destroy the Vipers. Would that that had been held in consideration when the votes against
them were being considered. They lost half their Touman, and then could not start new Sibkos for YEARS after the WoR
due to the inspections to make sure the Society had not corrupted their genetics. Frankly, it almost seems like they were
set up for the fall that hit them. I wonder if there is anyway that Adder Watch agents in the Cloud Cobras in the enclaves
the Cobras trialed for in the Coleen system could have caused the catastrophe that killed one of the planets?
They very definitely WERE set up to fail. Looking at the way the Wars of Reaving went, it was nothing more than an all out free-for-all for all comers to settle old grudges. The Blood Spirits were doomed from the very minute FM: Crusader Clans was written. They had no reason to interfere with the Star Adder's absorption, they knew it, did it anyway, and paid the the consequences. Going up against the most powerful Homeworld Clan with the military of one of the weakest (even after being secretly built up) was suicide. Karianna Schmitt was a warrior first, and last. Solve it with violence was her only solution to everything. She was too blind to see the weakness of her own Clan (or too arrogant to believe it) and her Clan earned its Annihilation because of her actions.
Thanks,
Kamose
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I see only three real ways for the Spirits not to have gone the way of the Dinosaur. They essentially had three chances during the WoR. The first was the little tiff with the Ghost Bears, that cost them a warship and a Khan down. The second was a bit later when they lost three Galaxy's to the Steel Vipers. If they could have somehow survived that they would have been in much better shape later. The last was losing so much in the Viper annihilation., that cost them much too dearly. If they could have avoided anyone one of these situations there situation in the Colleen system would have been well off enough they could have easily denied the other Clans a real foothold on Honor and Haven.
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Oh hush now. Hush now, we're all part of the Dead Clan Fans club. Arguing over who saw it coming first only makes us sound hipster. #P :D
Or lamer... I never saw the Nova Cats dying, and Herbert's reasoning to me in a Battlechat ("because they were there") was as arrogant as anything I've ever heard. Forgive me if I don't share in the whining, but respond rather in anger.
Kamose
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And just so it's said, I was rooting for the Cats and for Katana Tormark. The BT universe is a much less interesting place without our two Clans. :(
I'll drink to that. >:(
Kamose
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It depends on how you want to define 'Live on'.
The Fidelis may be descendants of the Smoke Jaguars, but do the Smoke Jaguars continue to live on? The answers going to vary depending on who you ask. The Spirit Cats being a bit closer to the source means you're going to get a bit more variety in the answer to that question. There's the other Nova Cat enclaves still in the Republic, too. With them though, I think it's more like looking at a modern day Irish-American and whether you actually consider him Irish as a nationality.
I'll address this here once because I don't want to be ranting all over the boards. You are right when you say some of the elements of Clan Nova Cat, both culturally and spiritually, continue to go on. But, the aspects of what made me a fan of them ARE gone, apparently forever, and we got no more and a couple of pages describing our Annihilation execution. That, combined with the reason Herbert gave me for their destruction, makes this one topic I will simply say that not all fans agree on and leave it at that, lest I start an escalating flame war or get censured by the mods. It certainly was not done well or with respect to the fans.
Thanks,
Kamose
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I have a firm belief the Blood Spirits were attempting to salvage there old Battlecruiser, the Rocinante when the Haven system fell to the Adders and that ship and maybe a few other jumpships worth of laborers, techs, and scientist jumped off into the Periphery after the rest of the Spirits fell. The Adders are keeping an eye on the Colleen System more to make sure the surviving Spirits don't come back to salvage what they can then to keep the other Clans away. That's my theory.
That and they conquered the Green Ghosts and are the newest band to take over that organization. ;)
Nice touch... I like it. May it someday be shown as true!
Kamose
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I see only three real ways for the Spirits not to have gone the way of the Dinosaur. They essentially had three chances during the WoR. The first was the little tiff with the Ghost Bears, that cost them a warship and a Khan down. The second was a bit later when they lost three Galaxy's to the Steel Vipers. If they could have somehow survived that they would have been in much better shape later. The last was losing so much in the Viper annihilation., that cost them much too dearly. If they could have avoided anyone one of these situations there situation in the Colleen system would have been well off enough they could have easily denied the other Clans a real foothold on Honor and Haven.
Great points... wish they could have really happened. I always thought the Spirits had a lot more potential than several of the Clans that survived or died (the Coyotes - come on! They INVENTED the Society! And the Flaming Monkeys always WERE a joke).
Regards,
Kamose
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Nice touch... I like it. May it someday be shown as true!
Kamose
It gives me a reason to say the Blood Guard Keshik survived. Trying to salvage there Khans Cruiser is a pretty good reason to be away from the Colleen System and it never outright says the ship was destroyed. In fact it survived enough for there to be enough atmosphere from Khan Schmidtt to survive long enough to be rescued..
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Great points... wish they could have really happened. I always thought the Spirits had a lot more potential than several of the Clans that survived or died (the Coyotes - come on! They INVENTED the Society! And the Flaming Monkeys always WERE a joke).
Regards,
Kamose
I was shocked the Yotes survived as well. Actually, an acquaintance of mine who is a Yote and I were betting on whether WoR would end with the Yotes destroying everybody or everybody being destroyed by the Yotes/Scientist Conspiracy. As we know, it didn't exactly turn out either way.
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It gives me a reason to say the Blood Guard Keshik survived. Trying to salvage there Khans Cruiser is a pretty good reason to be away from the Colleen System and it never outright says the ship was destroyed. In fact it survived enough for there to be enough atmosphere from Khan Schmidtt to survive long enough to be rescued..
Sounds like you've got a good potential BattleCorps story in there, Stormlion. I'd love to see you write it up for the rest of us!
Kamose
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I was shocked the Yotes survived as well. Actually, an acquaintance of mine who is a Yote and I were betting on whether WoR would end with the Yotes destroying everybody or everybody being destroyed by the Yotes/Scientist Conspiracy. As we know, it didn't exactly turn out either way.
Yep... it surprised me, too. Overall, I loved the book and think it is one of the best supplements to come out in the last decade plus. Having the Yotes survive was one of the very few criticisms I had about the book, primarily because it took such a stretch of disbelief to leave the elastic of reality loose. :)
Thanks,
Kamose
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Sounds like you've got a good potential BattleCorps story in there, Stormlion. I'd love to see you write it up for the rest of us!
Kamose
I write as well as I can shoot a rifle. I can't hit the broadside of a barn if I was inside one with the doors closed. Course I made expert with a pistol so...
Now conspiracy theory's....
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A far better outcome would've been the destruction of the Coyotes to pay the ultimate price for their hubris (and I say this not as an anti-Coyote sentiment as a fan but what I think would've been much more logical), and the Blood Spirits actually going into complete isolationism and completely withdrawing from Clan space in the years after York's bombardment. Then there would have been no Spirits left behind who possessed the information that allowed the other Clans to find them.
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A far better outcome would've been the destruction of the Coyotes to pay the ultimate price for their hubris (and I say this not as an anti-Coyote sentiment as a fan but what I think would've been much more logical), and the Blood Spirits actually going into complete isolationism and completely withdrawing from Clan space in the years after York's bombardment. Then there would have been no Spirits left behind who possessed the information that allowed the other Clans to find them.
I agree... And that would be a far cooler unsolved mystery than the Wolverines. Nice thinking! They we'd also have such an interesting Clan as the Spirits to speculate on...
Thanks,
Kamose
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The Coyotes were in a odd sort of position during the WoR. Half of them were Society while the other half had no clue what was really going on within there own plan. The Society part though kept getting beaten down while the ignorant half kept fighting the good fight. It took some time but eventually the Society portion of the Coyotes were the minority and the better than half that was left wanted to kill the Society portion of their own Clan. I am surprised they weren't absorbed or abjured though. There crimes were more major than the Spirits, the only difference is the Coyotes came out of the WoR in better shape is all.
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Had our game on Sunday, lost 6 of the 7 high-level PCs as the Blood Spirits went through yet another attempted coup. Tensions got really high between certain players and I probably should have halted the game but saw it through, running things on the fly. I can't say I'm happy about what happened. The whole event was unexpected and what was supposed to be a wind-down game became a player drama.
The Loremaster player convinced two other players to back his impromptu coup and a third joined their side as things developed. In the end, it was a roll of the dice and he lost but along the way he scored several impressive hits. He had intended to remove both the Khan and saKhan, blame their deaths on their allies and them bombard the industrial world using the warship fleet and remake the Blood Spirits back into the ultra-conservative Clan they were. He got the saKhan (beat him to death in hand to hand combat) and the Star Colonel in charge of the Blood Guard Keshik, but he died seconds later under fire from a Blood Guard Blood Kite. The rest of the deaths came from either the assassination attempt of the Khan or the brawl that happened afterwards. Of course, the Khan managed to make it out of things alright - he got shot but it wasn't a critical wound and he's squelched the truth of what happened so he doesn't panic the Clan or their newfound friends.
I've suspended the game pending a review of what happened and I want to talk to players when they've cooled down a bit.
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Pretty sure you'll all hate me in three years, though.
I hate you now ... though ... ;)
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Wow Terminax, that's just brutal! I've only had a player group disintegrate into player on player battles once, and it damn near wrecked the gaming group. Best to let tempers settle for awhile. Hopefully, you'll be able to salvage your campaign.
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The Coyotes were in a odd sort of position during the WoR. Half of them were Society while the other half had no clue what was really going on within there own plan. The Society part though kept getting beaten down while the ignorant half kept fighting the good fight. It took some time but eventually the Society portion of the Coyotes were the minority and the better than half that was left wanted to kill the Society portion of their own Clan. I am surprised they weren't absorbed or abjured though. There crimes were more major than the Spirits, the only difference is the Coyotes came out of the WoR in better shape is all.
I was absolutely certain the Yotes would eat it after what they did to the Mick-Kreese-Kline-Sainze(-insert additional Bloodnames here), Vipers, and Scorpions. Seriously, of all the Clans that somehow made it through, the Coyotes definitely deserved getting collectively curb stomped the most. Moreso than many Clans that did, in my humble opinion.
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I was absolutely certain the Yotes would eat it after what they did to the Mick-Kreese-Kline-Sainze(-insert additional Bloodnames here), Vipers, and Scorpions. Seriously, of all the Clans that somehow made it through, the Coyotes definitely deserved getting collectively curb stomped the most. Moreso than many Clans that did, in my humble opinion.
Same here. But given how decimated the Scientist castes of several Clans were after the Reavings, I wonder if they kept the Coyotes around for their Technician caste's familiarity with Society 'Mechs and advances? Given the Homeworlders are adopting the Septicemia and Sprite and currently studying the Osteon, maybe they wanted to have someone around with passing familiarity with the construction of these machines?
Kind of like after World War 2, when the U.S. and Soviets were trying to grab German scientists for their rocket programs.
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I don't know about you, but until I'm dead my Clan lives on. Don't be such sour pusses. It's only a game, and you can make of it what you will.
Unlike so many of you, I was certain the Blood Spirits were worm food prior to WoR because they're the Clan that represents Clan unity, however dysfunctional and warped it had become. I'd argue that they're the one Clan that could NOT survive the WoR no matter how much we love them because they're the Clan that represents all that was the Clans, not what they will be. The Coyotes survived for a couple of reasons. First, it leaves the Homeworld Clans with a link to the Founders that leaves them on an even footing concerning legitimacy with the Returned Clans and secondly, there had to be some sort of bad boy left among the Homeworld Clans. You could also say they have the survival instincts of their namesake... Coyotes are difficult to wipe out.
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Two of my players have called an apologized for their outbursts last night and I think we've lost a third, at least for now. Nobody likes player deaths but in a game like this, it happens. I'm not happy that it was launched on me without any prior warning ahead of time (I wasn't exactly prepared for it) but I rolled with it as best as I could. It isn't like a coup wasn't coming, I just didn't expect it now. As it was, the one who really took it like a champ was the saKhan's player who character died in a pretty inglorious death being beaten to death in a change room. He's a good guy and now he has to start all over. Loremaster's player is also okay, but he had nowhere near the time invested like the saKhan guy did. It's really the player who played the Star Colonel running the Blood Guard who's was being a **** and causing allot of the flack. When we talk (and we will), I'll have to set him straight that such behavior cannot happen again. The player who's left, at least for now is our youngest friend and feels setup by his buddy. I should be able to smooth it out but giving the kid a breather is the best I can do for today.
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Expressing disappointment is kind of a given. And while I've always been the first one to make that point, consider the fact that we won't be getting any further page time or official support (new designs, etc.). I think we're entitled to our collective displeasure. ;)
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Sure I hate the Clan I'm invested in get the axe but to harp on it as something personal by TPTB or writers isn't fair. It's a living universe, and for that to work things have to die, get born, live and die again in order to keep things fresh. Be thankful we weren't the Ice Hellion fans who had their Clan splattered like a bug hitting a windshield. The Fire Mandrills and Steel Vipers got what they pretty much deserved, even their fans agree to that. It took spending two decades under siege in the worst neighborhood ever then being thrown under the bus, stabbed in the back, beaten by a mob, a natural disaster and then finally being beaten to death by a 600 pound Gorilla to do the Blood Spirits in. There's gotta be a South Park bit or Robot Chicken quality sketch in that somewhere.
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No one's harping on anyone here, though. At least, I don't think so. I could be wrong, though.
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If nothing else, the Blood Spirits died well in comparison to the Steel Vipers, Fire Mandrills and the Ice Hellions. And the Nova Cats still have enough survivors scattered about to possibly rebuild given enough time and if they could all get together in one place.
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If nothing else, the Blood Spirits died well in comparison to the Steel Vipers, Fire Mandrills and the Ice Hellions. And the Nova Cats still have enough survivors scattered about to possibly rebuild given enough time and if they could all get together in one place.
I'd argue that the Mandrills got the shortest end of the stick. It took me a bit to realize, "Oh wait, they're dead? Hang on, quick Kindraa count...yep, dead."
I like the way the Vipers went, and hey, there are still some crazy Hellions out and aboot in El Imperio!
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I'd argue that the Mandrills got the shortest end of the stick. It took me a bit to realize, "Oh wait, they're dead? Hang on, quick Kindraa count...yep, dead."
I like the way the Vipers went, and hey, there are still some crazy Hellions out and aboot in El Imperio!
Yeah, I'm... okay with how my Vipers went. Happy? No. Still, I get it. In the end, it had to be either them or the Adders. Unfortunately, the last sane Viper was saKhan Ahmed, and even he ended up a casualty of Andrews.
As for the Mandrills, I'll admit to feeling a bit heartbroken about it. I was happy to read that my Faraday-Tanagas ended up in the Spirits. Then I got to the end of the book... :'(
I don't know about you, but until I'm dead my Clan lives on. Don't be such sour pusses. It's only a game, and you can make of it what you will.
Which is exactly why I'm completely sure (in my own little BT miniverse) that there's a small star cluster out deeper in the Periphery with a bunch of very angry Vipers, Mandrills, Hellions, and Cats, just waiting to launch their invasion of the Homeworlds. Spirit survivors are welcome, too. O0
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Yeah, I'm... okay with how my Vipers went. Happy? No. Still, I get it. In the end, it had to be either them or the Adders. Unfortunately, the last sane Viper was saKhan Ahmed, and even he ended up a casualty of Andrews.
As for the Mandrills, I'll admit to feeling a bit heartbroken about it. I was happy to read that my Faraday-Tanagas ended up in the Spirits. Then I got to the end of the book... :'(
Which is exactly why I'm completely sure (in my own little BT miniverse) that there's a small star cluster out deeper in the Periphery with a bunch of very angry Vipers, Mandrills, Hellions, and Cats, just waiting to launch their invasion of the Homeworlds. Spirit survivors are welcome, too. O0
The Sharkfoxes supply them. But they begin to grow. Too fast for the Sharkfoxes to control, until soon the Puppets become the Puppeteer. They launch an assault on the Sphere, starting by taking out the communications, and blocking off the center of the Sphere. When the Fortress Republic comes down, the Sphere knows it is too late. They are...the ILCLAN. In fact, they're THE ILLEST CLAN!
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No sleep till Terra?
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The Sharkfoxes supply them. But they begin to grow. Too fast for the Sharkfoxes to control, until soon the Puppets become the Puppeteer. They launch an assault on the Sphere, starting by taking out the communications, and blocking off the center of the Sphere. When the Fortress Republic comes down, the Sphere knows it is too late. They are...the ILCLAN. In fact, they're THE ILLEST CLAN!
Seyla! I like the way you think. ;D
No sleep till Terra?
Terra? Hell, in my miniverse we start burning at Pain and don't stop 'till we hit Herotitus. O0
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I don't know about you, but until I'm dead my Clan lives on. Don't be such sour pusses. It's only a game, and you can make of it what you will.
I agree completely. It is our game at each of our own tables and their are definite advantages to that. We, as players and creators, don't have to worry about whether anyone but ourselves likes what we do in our own games. CGL has to keep people buying books to stay in business, we don't have to worry about that.
As long as I play BattleTech Clan Blood Spirit will live in my games, no matter what CGL does in their version of the universe.
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Look at it this way, of the 'Dead Clans' were the most active on the boards, even among the surviving Homeworld Clans were even more active then they are. Star Adders wish they were Blood Spirits for the amont of devotion we bring to the table. Maybe that's why we were absorbed. Someone wants our devotion...
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Look at it this way, of the 'Dead Clans' were the most active on the boards, even among the surviving Homeworld Clans were even more active then they are. Star Adders wish they were Blood Spirits for the amont of devotion we bring to the table. Maybe that's why we were absorbed. Someone wants our devotion...
So Star Adders wanted to drain the Blood Spirits. Does this mean that Clan Star Adder is actually made up of vampires Draculas?
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So Star Adders wanted to drain the Blood Spirits. Does this mean that Clan Star Adder is actually made up of vampires Draculas?
Yes.
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I mean take a look, there isn't even a Star Adder thread on the first page here! Even the Nova Cats thread is halfway down and the Wolves, arguably one of the ones with the biggest fanbase is usually behind us. We are undead and popular. We should have T-shirts made. ;)
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Yes.
Follow up question: Been ages since I have seen a complete list of bloodnames. Are there any Van Helsings or Belmonts or Cushings among the Clans? :D
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Follow up question: Been ages since I have seen a complete list of bloodnames. Are there any Van Helsings or Belmonts or Cushings among the Clans? :D
Sadly, no. But it's possible to create them.
I mean take a look, there isn't even a Star Adder thread on the first page here! Even the Nova Cats thread is halfway down and the Wolves, arguably one of the ones with the biggest fanbase is usually behind us. We are undead and popular. We should have T-shirts made. ;)
Blood Spirits, my favourite Clan of zombies ;)
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Sadly, no. But it's possible to create them.
As one of the most visible Snow Ravens, I hereby accept you as a representative of your Clan, and hereby recommend that you find someone in the Alliance named "Belmont," make them a Warrior, create a Bloodname from them and make a sibko ASAP in order to thwart the Dracula menace.
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Challenge accepted O0
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What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk...
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Expressing disappointment is kind of a given. And while I've always been the first one to make that point, consider the fact that we won't be getting any further page time or official support (new designs, etc.). I think we're entitled to our collective displeasure. ;)
As Tassa rightly points out our Clan's death in the official universe will not give us any more support. So that means we have to give ourselves some that we can all use. So what does everyone think a good 3/5 100 ton Spirit OmniMech would look like or what other ideas do people have?
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No Omnimechs, the Spirits would develop a standard Battlemech with the best possible loadout of common weapon and ammunition types that they could produce cheaply and in numbers. They would build a Hellstar before they would build a Omnimech I think.
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That's probably true. I would think if the Spirits went the Hellstar route they would likely use ER Large Lasers but that is just a Supernova. So then the question becomes how do you build the Blood Spirits a 'Mech that doesn't look like an enlarged Blood Kite?
I forgot to add that i thought the 100 ton Omni would have a standard engine but you probably run into the enlarged Blood Kite problem again.
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Although it does not appear on any of the RAT's does anyone else think that the Spirits use the Bane 3 since the primary armament is 8 LRM-15 racks. A Trinary would send 1800 missiles downrange toward any Adder within reach so i thought of developing a Trinary of them.
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Expressing disappointment is kind of a given. And while I've always been the first one to make that point, consider the fact that we won't be getting any further page time or official support (new designs, etc.). I think we're entitled to our collective displeasure. ;)
Quick question, was anyone else surprised when TPTB said they were gonna spend a whole year on products for the Star League Era? I know I thought that was a dead and gone section of the timeline that might only get a single historical if that much. Even with Operation Klondike and Era Digest Golden Century, there's still a lot of unexplored era of the early Clans that could be developed. And they're always accepting fiction submissions over at BattleCorps. I've got 2 Clan stories I'm working on to submit (one of which is from that early Clan era) and I've got ideas for a bunch more.
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In the FGC, I piloted a custom design that was 100 tons of fun, maximum armor, and armed with a pair of GRs and a pair of ER PPCs. I had a 4/3/4 firing spread with no heat buildup. I called her the Blood Avatar. >:D
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Term: Does your group know how Clan-like their actions turned out? ... I'm not sure how to get everyone talking again, but is a great Clan paradigm!
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Quick question, was anyone else surprised when TPTB said they were gonna spend a whole year on products for the Star League Era? I know I thought that was a dead and gone section of the timeline that might only get a single historical if that much. Even with Operation Klondike and Era Digest Golden Century, there's still a lot of unexplored era of the early Clans that could be developed. And they're always accepting fiction submissions over at BattleCorps. I've got 2 Clan stories I'm working on to submit (one of which is from that early Clan era) and I've got ideas for a bunch more.
::rebs manages to steal a suddenly rare morning off work::
I was. Pleasantly so. Klondike is a great sourcebook, the first one by CGL I picked up coming back.
Looking around the universe, I've always wondered at all of the loose thread type characters all over the place in BT. The ones that have great stories unspoken of in the narrative - aside from the ones that are spoken of occasionally throughout. Like the Spirit's own Star Colonel Tiberius representing the types of characters who get their story told in the narrative; they remind me that in edition to the hordes of warriors Tiberius Reed could have brought with him (possibly), the Shogunate would also have had a few (or more than a few) warriors that made the grade and were Clanners during that early era, for the Vipers and the Blood Spirits. One of many examples, long lines of them going back to the first Clan sourcebooks...
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Quick question, was anyone else surprised when TPTB said they were gonna spend a whole year on products for the Star League Era? I know I thought that was a dead and gone section of the timeline that might only get a single historical if that much. Even with Operation Klondike and Era Digest Golden Century, there's still a lot of unexplored era of the early Clans that could be developed. And they're always accepting fiction submissions over at BattleCorps. I've got 2 Clan stories I'm working on to submit (one of which is from that early Clan era) and I've got ideas for a bunch more.
[applause]
Go on!
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Wow... I'm gone for a couple of days to build a new helmet for the step up and i miss some great discussions.
1) The 'yotes survived because they're still riding on the fiat coat tails of their big brothers...clan wolf.
2) no reason to build a 100 ton omni... we have the bloodkite.
3) i love love love the SL era , early SW era and early clan era... lets see MOAH!
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Now before anyone gets any crazy ideas, I'm not saying there's any products in the design or writing stage.
If you can write a good enough story that the folks over at BattleCorps accept it, that's gonna be the easiest way to get more canon material covering that era.
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Now before anyone gets any crazy ideas, I'm not saying there's any products in the design or writing stage.
If you can write a good enough story that the folks over at BattleCorps accept it, that's gonna be the easiest way to get more canon material covering that era.
Challenge accepted. :)
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Quick question, was anyone else surprised when TPTB said they were gonna spend a whole year on products for the Star League Era? I know I thought that was a dead and gone section of the timeline that might only get a single historical if that much. Even with Operation Klondike and Era Digest Golden Century, there's still a lot of unexplored era of the early Clans that could be developed. And they're always accepting fiction submissions over at BattleCorps. I've got 2 Clan stories I'm working on to submit (one of which is from that early Clan era) and I've got ideas for a bunch more.
I was surprised but I wish they would do two more products for it:
1. Handbook: House Cameron: A redo of the Star League Sourcebook that would mesh with the other Handbooks.
2. Field Manual 2765: Instead of doing the Era Reports give the other Member States coverage like the SLDF received. Include the Periphery but include the forces they actually had. That section could be written as a look back after events or even the whole book could.
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Wow... I'm gone for a couple of days to build a new helmet for the step up and i miss some great discussions.
2) no reason to build a 100 ton omni... we have the bloodkite.
What holes do we need to fill equipment wise?
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What holes do we need to fill equipment wise?
I'd like to have seen us produce a good solid heavy like the wodsman( and in many of our personal universes we do ) . We have a good home grown light, 2 very good mediums and an assault that kicks the ass of other assaults. That's about it.
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Well a lot of the Protomechs were essentially Blood Spirit pushed designs so that shows the Spirits were pushing some development over the years.
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True. We have some of the best protos.
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Quick question, was anyone else surprised when TPTB said they were gonna spend a whole year on products for the Star League Era? I know I thought that was a dead and gone section of the timeline that might only get a single historical if that much. Even with Operation Klondike and Era Digest Golden Century, there's still a lot of unexplored era of the early Clans that could be developed. And they're always accepting fiction submissions over at BattleCorps. I've got 2 Clan stories I'm working on to submit (one of which is from that early Clan era) and I've got ideas for a bunch more.
Yes... but not exactly pleasantly so. To me, it was an indication that they were not ready for the demands of 3145 and needed to "buy" more time. On the far more positive side, though, we really got a lot of good product that was incredibly cool and interesting. That was by far worth the wait for the disappointment that 3145 turned out to be (for me), and we are still going to be getting even MORE product from that era. Definitely a win!
Thanks,
Kamose
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Blood Spirits, my favourite Clan of zombies ;)
"Oh, bother!" said Herb, as the Blood Spirits came back from the dead. ;)
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Anybody know the specific fate of the 7th Blood Drinkers? I always loved their logo (and the fact that they were commanded by an ex-Goliath Scorpion).
Thanks,
Kamose
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"Oh, bother!" said Herb, as the Blood Spirits came back from the dead. ;)
What? Herb's Winnie the Pooh now? ???
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What? Herb's Winnie the Pooh now? ???
If he is Winnie the Pooh he is Winnie the Pooh with nukes.
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No his cats have the nukes, Herb just has the cat food for the cats who have the nukes.
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I just modified David Weber's sig line: "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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I ate piglet last night with fava beans and a nice chiante...
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I ate piglet last night with fava beans and a nice chiante...
Well, I am serving ham for lunch tomorrow at work...
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Ain't roadside barbecue the best?
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Term: Does your group know how Clan-like their actions turned out? ... I'm not sure how to get everyone talking again, but is a great Clan paradigm!
Honestly, it's not something I give allot of thought on. I rather them have a fun game where they try their best to be Clan-ish, and in particular Blood Spirit Clan-ish but I don't force them to play using no contradictions, or how they should act beyond the general gist of things.
I had dinner with one of the older players and his girlfriend to discuss last weekend's game and plan for the future. She's joining the game, as are a couple of other young ladies who are friends of our teenage players. I still have to talk or meet those two, but the girlfriend will be a gem. She's regular D&D player so it won't be too much of a leap for her and she's got several really good character ideas already. It's always interesting to have an outsider's perspective on things. The group as a whole has gotten too large for me to handle myself so we're discussing the ins and outs of separating the group into two or running it only at the community center so we have the space to manage the numbers.
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I hope you can chronicle the events into a storyboard that you can send all of the players ... they need to see the whole thing from and in universe perspective.
too large? ... I bet most people wish they had that problem! O0
can't wait to see how CBS manages to come out of this one!
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I have the problem with too large. Nearly 50 people in my FB battletech game group page.
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In any case, I've been hearing back from various players on new characters and I think I patch things up. We've got allot of details to work out about how our Blood Spirit Union actually works. Thinking of doing a TRO too, but the idea of getting artwork for it is a bit intimidating. Who knows.
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Do the write ups and just create new refits of existing mechs. The Blood Spirits may have created one or two new mech designs but its more likely they just created new Clan refits of existing designs, maybe even going the Diamond Shark route and created standard Battlemech derivative's of Omnimech's.
For One I could see them creating a Downgraded version of the Warhawk or Dire Wolf using Inner Sphere levels of tech without the Omnimech's capability or refitted Star League era mech's that never got the IIc treatment. At that point old artwork just needs to be reused or slightly modified to work for you.
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Do the write ups and just create new refits of existing mechs. The Blood Spirits may have created one or two new mech designs but its more likely they just created new Clan refits of existing designs, maybe even going the Diamond Shark route and created standard Battlemech derivative's of Omnimech's.
For One I could see them creating a Downgraded version of the Warhawk or Dire Wolf using Inner Sphere levels of tech without the Omnimech's capability or refitted Star League era mech's that never got the IIc treatment. At that point old artwork just needs to be reused or slightly modified to work for you.
Some SL designs get really nasty when you trade out an AC/10 for 2 PAC/8s....
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Do the write ups and just create new refits of existing mechs. The Blood Spirits may have created one or two new mech designs but its more likely they just created new Clan refits of existing designs, maybe even going the Diamond Shark route and created standard Battlemech derivative's of Omnimech's.
For One I could see them creating a Downgraded version of the Warhawk or Dire Wolf using Inner Sphere levels of tech without the Omnimech's capability or refitted Star League era mech's that never got the IIc treatment. At that point old artwork just needs to be reused or slightly modified to work for you.
Some of my own personal, non-canon, fan-made designs feature common omnis with their XL engines swapped for SFEs. Makes the omni process cheaper (resource-wise) and it makes the designs more survivable.
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We have a small catalog of new units in our game and they emphasize advance technology and adaptability. Our Blood Spirits are not the Blood Spirits of canon. No retreads or refits here. A few designs came into being during the WoR phase of our campaign and a couple more afterwards but the majority will be the new designs being built during the campaigns time leap. An ideas we've borrowed from the forums is that of a low-cost, mass produced BA model series but our twist on it was that it was specifically for non-Elementals and while it was a moderate success during the campaigns for York, it didn't really take off until the Blood Spirits passed the suit on to their allies who've adopted it The Blood Spirits meanwhile have engineered their own series of "improved" BA which suits their needs better.
Speaking of the campaign, we had a lengthy session (4 hours + of Office Hours plus 4+ hours) of gaming on Sunday with a ton of new people, including the three ladies previously mentioned. I finally got a volunteer to GM as well as me so we've split the game into two tables. Right now, the new GM is handling the more wargame and less RPG motivated players including one of the girls playing one a recon element that haven't yet returned back to the Blood Spirits until he and they get a better feel for each other. Meanwhile I'm taking charge of the reconstruction of the leadership end of the game with the less wargame and more RPG motivated players including two of the girls. We still have a session or three before that all gets hammered out. Whatever happens, the Blood Spirits will be moving into a new generation of warriors and leadership. The setting will time leap now about 5 years + 5D6 months and we'll be into the 3090s.
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The Khan is dead, long live the Khan!
The Blood Spirits in my game now have a new Khan, played by the older of our new lady players. Next on the plate: Blood Spirits vs Hanseatic League vs Scorpion Empire vs Homeworld Clans.
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The Khan is dead, long live the Khan!
The Blood Spirits in my game now have a new Khan, played by the older of our new lady players. Next on the plate: Blood Spirits vs Hanseatic League vs Scorpion Empire vs Homeworld Clans.
There is a story behind how the old Khan died, and I am curious to know it and the name of the new Khan.
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I can't reveal the particulars to the Khan's demise as that part of the story is being told in flashbacks during our session. I also keep the game's details somewhat obscured in my posts to keep our moderators happy but it'll be revealed in an upcoming post in the Non-Canon units forum.
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Next weekend we start back up after taking a break for the start up of the school year and other things. We'll start off with trio of mid-sized skirmishes that'll influence our the "big" game we'll be running before the Halloween horror session. Will the Blood Spirits carry the day when they throw themselves into the free-for-all between the Scorpion Empire, Hanseatic League and Homeworld Clans? And after those games are wrapped up, dinner with a Blood Spirit themed pizza and cake and wrap it all up with a 3 hour RPG session. Big stuff is coming around the corner, so keep an eye out. I've got posts to make in the fan area.
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Just in case I never showed some of you my quasi-canon personal unit...
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,9061.0.html
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Well yesterday's games went quite well. The Blood Spirits won two decisive victories and a marginal victory and suffered a major defeat in their meddlings with the Scorpion Empire VS Hanseatic League VS Homeworld Clan battles. The Blood Spirits hammered the Star Adders and Stone Lions, and sent the Cloud Cobras into retreat but the Hansa... well, they pulled out all the stops and kept the Blood Spirits from any of their objectives. Two weekends from now we'll have a day long battle for control of the world.
On the RPG side, the Blood Spirit Union and the Scorpion Empire have reached an agreement - in exchange for desperately needed supplies and repairs to their potent Warship fleet the Scorpion Empire has agreed to work with the Blood Spirits in striking the toehold the Homeworld Clans have established in Hansa space. Meanwhile the Hanseatic League has allied itself with remnants from the Word of Blake and are determined to battle all comers and have surprises of their own. The Diamond Sharks née Sea Foxes are also swimming the local waters, fearful that the Blood Spirits arrival into the conflict will push the Homeworld Clans to attack with their full might.
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Always good to hear about the Spirits kicking around the Adders and Cloud Cobras. Its kind of amusing that after dealing with the Clans, they had trouble with Hansa units :)
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Hansa had a crapload more troops and even then, they took severe losses. Several companies worth of Hansa died holding onto the objectives.
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so a Pyrrhic victory for the Hansa? ... they have to hope that they can re-strengthen before we come back then!
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So, I know this is an AU and all, but the appearance of Spirit survivors doesn't send the homeclans into full on crazy mode??? I would think Spirits in the Imperio would bring the full might of the Strana Mechty clans.
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Different things happened in this AU. The spirits came out much more on top of things than in canon.
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So, I know this is an AU and all, but the appearance of Spirit survivors doesn't send the homeclans into full on crazy mode??? I would think Spirits in the Imperio would bring the full might of the Strana Mechty clans.
I don't see the Blood Spirits reappearing making the Homeworld Clans go crazy, at least not after a few years. For one the Adders having missed a few Spirit units and would be seen as a Star Adder failure. The Homeworld Clans would just leave the issue up to the Star Adders once again and if they fail again than that's on them. And as for the Adders I can easily see them dedicating a Galaxy or Two with minimal warship support being sent to deal with the Spirits again, even if it strips the Homeworlds of much needed garrisons for there enclaves. Most likely they would dedicate second line galaxy's to the task as they wouldn't have any respect for the Spirits though and would treat them as Bandit Caste. Which could cost them if they got cocky and add salvaged equipment to the Spirits Touman.
It all counts on how much time has passed, if say fifty years have passed I could even see the reappearance of the Blood Spirits being ignored as the warriors who actually fought the "Absorption" being all dead or retired and the urge to once again "Punish" the Spirits being a non-issue or one of not much relevance anymore. I don't see the Homeworld Clans inviting them back though.
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Different things happened in this AU. The spirits came out much more on top of things than in canon.
Ah, 10-4
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There's allot happening in the campaign and we've only begun. The the Blood Spirit's actions just haven't had any time to filter back as we're still in early days of the conflict - less than a few days have passed in game so far. Be assured that that there will be repercussions. If the Wars of Reaving were the First Succession War, then what's coming in the game would be equivalent of the Second Succession War.
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have a question what where the new planets the Spirit's had discovered berofre the absorption by Stone Rhinos my friends and i where having a debate and i could n't remember/ :)
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They were absorbed by the Star Adders, not the Stone Lions. They didn't have the firepower to do it so they got 'big daddy adder' to do it for the Clans. The worlds were in the Colleen system and were named Honor and Haven. I like to think the Spirits may have found other worlds as well, as its mentioned the Spirits sent out more than one expedition but were not told if that's true, and it looks like the Spirits put all there eggs in the Colleen basket.
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Stone lions, not rhino's.
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Stone lions, not rhino's.
Wow, how did I make that mistake? Oh well, fixed and thanks.
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Wow, how did I make that mistake? Oh well, fixed and thanks.
cuz you somehow got a slow 100 ton assault mech stuck in your brain? ... they're a b*tch to move out of your brain too ... stumpy legs and what not, those jump jets just make you sneeze.
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cuz you somehow got a slow 100 ton assault mech stuck in your brain? ... they're a b*tch to move out of your brain too ... stumpy legs and what not, those jump jets just make you sneeze.
Actually I believe it was a 150 ton assault mech. ;)
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Wow, how did I make that mistake? Oh well, fixed and thanks.
the poster in front of you posted that, easy mystake. I had to look at it for a bit because I knew there was something wrong, but I couldn't come up with the right name...
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Hey guys,
I've attached a PDF of a random unit list of for Blood Spirit 'mechs. The first page is front-line and the second page is, well, second-line. Any comments, omissions, or what-not's would be greatly appreciated.
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thanks for the info stormlion
:)
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Actually I believe it was a 150 ton assault mech. ;)
You better be takin' some serious fiber for that!
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thanks for the info stormlion
:)
Your welcome.
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I still have trouble wrapping my brain around the fact that the Blood Spirits are gone. I think TPTB made a mistake in doing it so thoroughly. They should've saved the destruction of York for last and left the hidden colonies unknown to the other Clans, instead of that predictable nonsense we ended up with.
I hate to say it, but consolidating and paring down factions like this just alienates me as a player. I certainly won't be rooting for the surviving Home Clans, all but one of which I actively dislike. Seriously, the Coyotes manage to live and the Spirits don't? Lame.
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I still have trouble wrapping my brain around the fact that the Blood Spirits are gone. I think TPTB made a mistake in doing it so thoroughly. They should've saved the destruction of York for last and left the hidden colonies unknown to the other Clans, instead of that predictable nonsense we ended up with.
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There is one important thing, when reading some of the best novels - the best authors can keep you in suspense all book long. You know that your favorite character/main protagonist will probably survive ..., but the best authots can balance this knowledge/expectation with the question "What if ...".
But from time to time the author simply must kill off somebody (some good guy(s)), otherwise readers will not believe that the antagonist/evil overlord is serious when doing something/declaring his intentions/conquering the world. ;)
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I hate to say it, but consolidating and paring down factions like this just alienates me as a player. I certainly won't be rooting for the surviving Home Clans, all but one of which I actively dislike. Seriously, the Coyotes manage to live and the Spirits don't? Lame.
Haven't you felt sometimes that having 20 Clans may be too much, and that spinning their very similar storylines around may be a little boring?
Some people liked the Burrocks, some people liked the Mandrills, etc. The storyteller just decided that the Blood Spirits just drew the short straw too, especially if important part of their history described how they provoked stronger Clan and pissed off the rest.
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We never had twenty clans though, we started with the Clan Invasion and a few Clans were already gone. And some of those have never really been expanded upon other than some modest backstory. Heck, we got next to no info how some clans died other than 'dead and gone' that we did get. The Blood Spirits went down with some serious backstory involved, but they still died when other Clans, the Stone Lions or the Coyotes for various reasons should have died off as well but didn't. That's the frustrating part.
But hey in the end, the Spirits went down swinging, and in that they did better than the Burrocks.
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Plus the Spirits had a story line diffetent than any other. It's not like the cobras and ravens or some of the others that are close.
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If ever there was a clan to sneak off into the black and disappear from clan society to forge their own way. It was the Spirits.
I also did not like their fate or how the Adders handled York. I've said it before but when I first opened WoR saw the ToC, saw the Spirits in the Founders Future segment, I flipped right to it. I was more excited the Spirits survived than the Adders (I had kind of surmised the Adders would survive). Then quickly realized that it was not the case, it was sad. I can't imagine what hardcore Spirit fans thought. In WoR the Spirits dropped the Emo kid thing and came out fighting like good clanners. It should have been enough to change their fate.
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Killing them off was gratuitous, when it would've been more fitting to let them fade into the Deep Periphery. They evenhad the perfect setup in place with Honor and Haven. But alas, they died, as did my desire to spend another dime on a Clan product.
And no, I've never felt having so many Clans was a bad thing. Variety is the spice of life.
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They were totally doomed when they attacked the society's last stronghold ... I know it was a sense of honor and pride, but if were one of the smallest clans I wouldn't lead the vanguard in so the Star Adders could come in and hog the glory.
Wait? haven't we gone through this before ... O0
At least hating the Adders never gets old.
I wonder which blood names the clans will reinitialize, I'm sure if you go back far enough in their genetic database they'll find 'uncorrupted/untainted' versions of Blood Heritages.
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The Blood Spirits had little of the genetic tampering in their lines, due to their extreme isolationism and xenophobia. But I'd rather see them gone than used by the remaining Clans. No need to add a taint where none existed. :P
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The Blood Spirits had little of the genetic tampering in their lines, due to their extreme isolationism and xenophobia. But I'd rather see them gone than used by the remaining Clans. No need to add a taint where none existed. :P
Seems like the Spirit lineages would be desirable, technically the Adders own them. I can see the Lions or Cobras wanting to use them. They should be solid trade fodder.
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Seems like the Spirit lineages would be desirable, technically the Adders own them. I can see the Lions or Cobras wanting to use them. They should be solid trade fodder.
The Adders don't own them, actually, as they were Abjured, not Absorbed. Also, given their treatment of the Spirits' genetic repository, I think it's safe to say that the Adders don't want them...and probably won't let anyone else use them.
As it should be.
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My real hope is the hints of Green Ghosts with Blood Spirit markings, the one DA novel where someone finds a medallion with a Blood Spirit insignia, and the very fact that Blood Spirits are real hard to kill off. Not a great hope, but a hope nonetheless.
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The Adders don't own them, actually, as they were Abjured, not Absorbed. Also, given their treatment of the Spirits' genetic repository, I think it's safe to say that the Adders don't want them...and probably won't let anyone else use them.
As it should be.
Strange, from the WoR, it was a Trial of Absorption that just dended up a defacto Annihilation. The Adders do, by
Clan Law, technically own the Blood Spirit Legacies, because the vote in the Grand Council was for Absorption.
One thing I will say: We always knew there were only three ways the Blood Spirit/Adder Feud could end:
The Spirits rose and crushed the Adders, forging an alliance of other clans to help them.
The Adders got serious and focused on destroying the Spirits.
Both sides went after each other, going for the jugular, and were so weakened during the fighting
that another Clan got the Right of Absorption on both of them.
No matter how you looked at it, at least one had to cease to be. Ultimately, the Spirits fate is
believable based on the narrative we had seen.
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My mistake. I was reading WoR and it first mentions that the Adders were calling for an Abjuration. But every other mention past that says Absorption. My apologies for the misread.
After some consideration, this is how I would've had their fate unfold.
1.) No orbital bombardment of York as it happened. But see below.
2.) No leading the way in the Viper Annihilation fights. The other Clans already saw them as weak, and who gives a crap if the Adder Khan is murdered, so better to sit this one out and use the distraction to continue withdrawing from the Homeworlds.
3.) Give Karianna Schmitt the chance to have a final blaze of glory in an epic Adder/Spirit ground fight that sees the Adders driven off York...and THEN have the Adders paste York. Then at least it's for a justifiable reason and serves asan awesome post-WoR example to any Clan that defies the Way of the Clans.
4.) Honor and Haven live on in the Deep Periphery, maybe led by that cool new Constans Cluff character from WoR, and the Spirits are never heard from again.
It's a win-win for everyone, isn't it?
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Killing them off was gratuitous, when it would've been more fitting to let them fade into the Deep Periphery. They evenhad the perfect setup in place with Honor and Haven.
[applause]
And no, I've never felt having so many Clans was a bad thing. Variety is the spice of life.
Indeed.
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I believe the Adders lost just to much during the WoR, three Galaxys alone against the Vipers, and when the time came for the Viper Annihilation the Spirits took the lead and lost even more. Bad business all around, the Spirits were powerful during the WoR, they gained worlds, they beat foes handidly, they even made deals withs the Diamond Sharks, deals that could have done them good in the long run when the two halves of the Clans were split. If only the Spirits hadn't lost so much to the Vipers.
The two saddest words in the english languoge, if only.
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See, I think after a few re-reads of WoR the thing that bugs me the most is what Stormlion is saying. The Spirits stopped being withdrawn and isolated. They broke out, they fought lots of trials and outright battles, and won a ton of them. They started trading with and talking to other clans. They were becoming part of the clans again. Then the Adders just arbitrarily destroy York, and the Spirits really started back to their old ways.
I was a fool for hoping the two would bury the hatchet. I can see the Burrock resurrection being the only possible catalyst for it. The Adders could have told the Spirits, you guys were right, let's go after them together. Building relations back with the Spirits that way could have won the Adders another ally.
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Strange, from the WoR, it was a Trial of Absorption that just dended up a defacto Annihilation. The Adders do, by
Clan Law, technically own the Blood Spirit Legacies, because the vote in the Grand Council was for Absorption.
One thing I will say: We always knew there were only three ways the Blood Spirit/Adder Feud could end:
The Spirits rose and crushed the Adders, forging an alliance of other clans to help them.
The Adders got serious and focused on destroying the Spirits.
Both sides went after each other, going for the jugular, and were so weakened during the fighting
that another Clan got the Right of Absorption on both of them.
No matter how you looked at it, at least one had to cease to be. Ultimately, the Spirits fate is
believable based on the narrative we had seen.
I would have liked option 3. I'd guess the Spirits would lose (then be absorbed, what remained), but they'd put enough of a hurting on the Adders that there would be more equity among the remaining clans.
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Honestly, I think it's good that there isn't equity anymore. At least the Homies are gonna be working towards a collective goal and finally getting their shot at the Inner Sphere. It just would've been a guilty pleasure to see the Adders and the Spirits invading together. A new Wolf and Falcon if ever there was such a scenario!
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Honestly, I think it's good that there isn't equity anymore. At least the Homies are gonna be working towards a collective goal and finally getting their shot at the Inner Sphere. It just would've been a guilty pleasure to see the Adders and the Spirits invading together. A new Wolf and Falcon if ever there was such a scenario!
I totally agree with the new Wolf and Falcon concept!
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I don't, the Blood Spirits aren't Wolves or Falcons. There something else entirely better than them.
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Really? Because I can see a lot of the Wolves' progressivism in the Adders, and a lot of the Falcons' conservatism in the Spirits. I think they'd make fine successors to the greatest Clan feud of all time.
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Really? Because I can see a lot of the Wolves' progressivism in the Adders, and a lot of the Falcons' conservatism in the Spirits. I think they'd make fine successors to the greatest Clan feud of all time.
Really!?!? i would say the adder/spirit feud is the greatest clan feud of all time. i mean opinions vary, but the feuds various clans have had held nothing compared to the adder/spirit. I say that as a bear fan who took a decade to stop hating the horses.
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I do not see it this way.
The Spirit-Adder feud was great in the context before and during the WoR.
Post-WoR so much has changed that an ongoing clan feud between Homelcans does not make sense anymore.
BTW the Spirits would never have left some of their own behind.
"Alltogether we stand, alltogether we fall" - this was finally the epitome of their esprit de corps. Without his they would not have been Clan Blood Spirit.
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BTW the Spirits would never have left some of their own behind.
"Alltogether we stand, alltogether we fall" - this was finally the epitome of their esprit de corps. Without his they would not have been Clan Blood Spirit.
I wish that had been a quote somewhere in the Wars of Reaving book...that is SO
perfect. I still wish the Spirits fall had put more of a hurt on the Adders...then again,
that is why the Adders resorted to orbital bombardment in the Colleen System. There
came a point where the Adders learned the York Lesson: The Spirits will fight, and will
fight dirty in their own defense. The Adders would have had two choices to go after
the Spirits: Safe, but Dezgra Orbital Bombardment, or to drop MULTIPLE Galaxies,
if not MOST of their Touman onto one planet, and fought an epic battle that would
have left them bloodied and weakened, because, the difference would be the
difference between fighting someone who was not, for some reason, avoiding the
push to drive the Adders off one planet, but were fighting for their very survival.
Would I have liked to have seen the Adders have dropped en masse, and lost
galaxies to a back against the wall, no-where to run, last-stand fighting Spirits?
Would I have liked to have seen the Spirits fight to where, ultimately, the
Adder Khan and the Spirit Khan ultimately made an agreement to fight a single
duel to determine the fate of the Spirits? Would that have been awesome and
the ultimate show of the Clan Way, and a very traditional outcome. And, I am
sure if the Spirit Khan told the Spirits that they would abide by the outcome of
the duel, that they would have submitted to being Absorbed by the Adders.
But, the Adders never gave them that chance. Because the Adders are a
practical Clan, and they knew that to invade would have been WAY too
costly, and would have taken too long to achieve victory, and could have left
them open for Absorption, or, worse, could have led to the Spirits holding off
long enough that the Cobras and Lions might have been able to have declared
that the Spirits had won their Trial(after the Adders were sufficiently weakened).
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I don't think Bannacek would offer himself up in a duel. I know he has to be a good warrior to become khan, and he certainly appears to be a tough as nails elemental. He just seemed more like a general and less like a warrior in the clan sense. Honestly, I'm not sure he wins a duel with Cluff at this point. They are both elementals so it's a fair fight, but Cluff is fluffed as a bad you know what warrior and Bannacek is fluffed as great commander.
Bllaaaah, disregard Cluff was gone by that point, dang, might have been a cool fight.
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Post-WoR so much has changed that an ongoing clan feud between Homelcans does not make sense anymore.
Tell that to the Cobras and Coyotes. ;)
BTW the Spirits would never have left some of their own behind.
"Alltogether we stand, alltogether we fall" - this was finally the epitome of their esprit de corps. Without his they would not have been Clan Blood Spirit.
Just as in canon, sometimes circumstances are beyond one's control.
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While I would have loved to see a massed Adder/Spirit fight on Honor and Haven I doubt the Adders would have lost a few Galaxy's in the fight. It would have been tough but in all honestly the Spirits were weak at that point. They gave a very good fight for their strength but a few Galaxys of Adders not using zel would have been a foregone conclusion no matter how much better Spirits mechwarriors are. It was only the massed civy PBI's that let us do as much damage as we did.
I'm not putting down my Clan of choice, but I do like to be honest. The Adders had every advantage in that fight. It would have been Custers last stand no matter what happened.
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Agreed 100%.
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The Adders would have had two choices to go after
the Spirits: Safe, but Dezgra Orbital Bombardment, or to drop MULTIPLE Galaxies,
if not MOST of their Touman onto one planet, and fought an epic battle that would
have left them bloodied and weakened, because, the difference would be the
difference between fighting someone who was not, for some reason, avoiding the
push to drive the Adders off one planet, but were fighting for their very survival.
One thing is for sure, the Adders gave a great amount of respect to the Spirits when they killed them. When an enemy resorts to overkill to win, you know you had them by the jewels. I think of it as a testament to the Spirit's prowess even in their weakness, that the Adders dezgra'd themselves taking down a dezgra enemy.
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Or it could just be that the Adders were willing and able to avoid losing an ounce of power and military strength in the trial. Why bother even trying to fight them and risking anything. Send a fleet, smack their warships and drop ships away and ortillery the planets. The GC can't take any action against you since they already declared the Spirits dezgra and you have a massive military to defend any challenge. I understand the Adders actions. No Spirit is going to allow himself to be absorbed, they are going to fight dezgra, just smash them from space and save yourself the trouble.
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Or it could just be that the Adders were willing and able to avoid losing an ounce of power and military strength in the trial. Why bother even trying to fight them and risking anything. Send a fleet, smack their warships and drop ships away and ortillery the planets. The GC can't take any action against you since they already declared the Spirits dezgra and you have a massive military to defend any challenge. I understand the Adders actions. No Spirit is going to allow himself to be absorbed, they are going to fight dezgra, just smash them from space and save yourself the trouble.
WHich is actually the point. Every other Absorption, the enemy was already declared Dezgra(Except, perhaps, the Burrock), and
they still fought Trials. What the Adders did was basicly saying "We are NOT going to give them a chance to win at 4 to 1 Odds..
we are just going to blow them to bits because..like HECK are we going to get stuck fighting them for decades!"
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That battle between Blood Spirit and Star Adder ships above York in... 25 Years of Art and Fiction demonstrated to the Star Adders the insane lengths the Spirits were willing to go in order to defend themselves. Being practical, the Adders knew there was no playing fair with the Spirits. And it wasn't like the Adders had to (or could, following the civilian mobilization) absorb the Blood Spirit assets in order to get something out of the victory. At that point the Adders were top dog in the homeworlds and risking anything against the Spirits could have messed with that. So, bombs away.
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Well I finally got the first 'mechs painted to the new paint scheme.
Which paint scheme, you ask? This one!
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,26871.msg707536.html#msg707536
And here they are, the new Blood Spirits:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/Never_Say_Never.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/TopSergeant/media/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/Never_Say_Never.jpg.html)
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Very nice work on the Blood Kite and Nova Cat! Two of my favorite Clan mechs.
Actually the fact of the matter is the Adders knew they weren't going to absorb any personnel from the Spirits, what facilities they could take would not be worth the effort, not if they could be seized elsewhere and Spirit genetics were stored at Strana Mechty so seizing the facilitys in the Colleen system was not needed. That and the Adders hated the Spirits, a long time thorn in there side. In the end wasting precious troops and mechs against the Spirits would equate to a waste of rescources. Rescources needed to maintain the dominant position in the Homeworlds.
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Those are really cool! Nice job!
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really like the blood kite! :D
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My Blood Spirit AU campaign update: The Blood Spirits have withdrawn from the Scorpion Empire vs Homeworld Clans vs Hanseatic League three-way war after bloodying the Homeworld Clans and being fought to an unexpected stand-off with the Hansa. They accomplished their goal of giving the Scorpion Empire much needed breathing room from the Homeworld Clans but their shocking failures against the Hansa have the Blood Spirits reevaluating their plans.
The tables have split now into three groups, my big table, and two smaller tables, one still a Blood Spirit one while the other table is a Goliath Scorpion one. The groups are playing tomorrow but I'm still on my vacation from the tables until the new year.
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Nice work Top.
Those are two of my favorite mechs and they look good!
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Thanks!
I picked up both of them at Gen Con. It only took me four months to paint two mechs! :D ::) :P
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Thanks!
I picked up both of them at Gen Con. It only took me four months to paint two mechs! :D ::) :P
I know that feeling. I have a Light of Mankind Pulverizer I am painting..and have been painting for
like, a year...I really need to finish it up at some point..
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Nothing beats the Phoenix Hawk IIc I bought that took eight years and two moves to paint and then a year, maybe two later the Clan I painted it up in was annihilated.
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Nothing beats the Phoenix Hawk IIc I bought that took eight years and two moves to paint and then a year, maybe two later the Clan I painted it up in was annihilated.
I went on a mini buying rampage two years ago. I have 100+ minis, about half assembled, a drawer full of painting supplies, and not a single painted mini.
I should probably mention my wife was pregnant when I bought the minis... since the process basically stopped when my little guy arrived.
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One day I plan to buy a Blood Kite, and just that, and paint her up nice for my bookshelf. So I have an iconic reminder that my Clan lives on through me. I'm just terrified that my hands are too shaky to ever paint something so small. :(
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One day I plan to buy a Blood Kite, and just that, and paint her up nice for my bookshelf. So I have an iconic reminder that my Clan lives on through me. I'm just terrified that my hands are too shaky to ever paint something so small. :(
I have a similar plan to eventually have one iconic mech from each clan painted up for display. I may have them done as commissions though.
I also have a Blood Kite set aside for this purpose.
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No what you really want to do is create a Battlemech based Chess set. A Blood Kite would make a good queen for the Clan side of the board. ;)
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I was talking to some friends about that just recently on Facebook. I think bloodkite would be a better rook... Hellstar for the Queen.
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I'd want BattletTech chess to be more like Archon ... you have to fight out your moves.
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Star wars chess/ wizards chess...
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Star wars chess/ wizards chess...
Let the elemental win
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQIwEZlOzp4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Howdy ho Blood Spirits. Atease there, I come in peace. O0
I have returned to the board after a 5 year hiatus. When I posted here previously I had a good friend in your ranks. I'm seeking that friend's whereabouts. The problem is I cannot remember his username. He wrote a story called "Tears of Blood" which I still have on a computer somewhere.
If you're here bud, PM me please.
KCJ
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Howdy ho Blood Spirits. Atease there, I come in peace. O0
I have returned to the board after a 5 year hiatus. When I posted here previously (under the same username and avatar) I had a good friend in your ranks. I'm seeking that friend's whereabouts. The problem is I cannot remember his username. He wrote a story called "Tears of Blood" which I still have on a computer somewhere.
If you're here bud, PM me please.
KCJ
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Methinks you're thinking of Randall Bills, who indeed wrote a BattleCorps seven-part story called "Tears of Blood".
I also remember you. :)
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tassa, you are in fact the man I was looking for. How are you my old friend? I am happy you spoke up.
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Well, considering the fact that TPTB finally got around to bushwhacking my Clan? I'm doing pretty darned well. ;D How are ya? Pull up a chair, there's always room for any Clan that believes in their purity of purpose as much as the Blood Spirits do.
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Do you remember I was engaged to be married last time we spoke.
Well, we did the thing and got hitched. Now I have a great kid man, just beautiful. I am very lucky and I know it.
So I guess my life has completely changed since my previous departure. However, I remain a die hard Jade Falcon. You remember how I am about the Good Guys. }:)
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I like you sig KCJ O0
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Thanks a lot Sarge. :)
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I think that's literally the perfect Jade Falcon sigbar, lol.
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I think that's literally the perfect Jade Falcon sigbar, lol.
You know me tassa, would you expect anything less? O0
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Yup, the Jade Falcons. Crashing with plane in flames because they refuse to believe it is in flames since the founding of the Clans.
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Aff, Stormlion, and do not forget it!
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I've noticed lately in other threads that allot of people seem to be glossing over the fact the Blood Spirits were just as bad hypocrites when it came to the Clans precious traditions that the rest of them were. I'm a huge Blood Spirit fan, but even I recognize they had just as much stupid, irrational behavior that got them into trouble more often than not as any other Clan did. I think it's fair to say, WoR if anything finally showed that the Clans were just as human as anyone else in the BT universe.
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I've noticed lately in other threads that allot of people seem to be glossing over the fact the Blood Spirits were just as bad hypocrites when it came to the Clans precious traditions that the rest of them were. I'm a huge Blood Spirit fan, but even I recognize they had just as much stupid, irrational behavior that got them into trouble more often than not as any other Clan did. I think it's fair to say, WoR if anything finally showed that the Clans were just as human as anyone else in the BT universe.
Thats because the rest of us Clanners are hypocrites...and its not polite to point ;)
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I looove the BS that the BS put out! :-) ... hah get it?! Bull 'Stink' and Blood Spirit >:D
the writers could have taken the Wars of Reaving so many different ways. The clan is gone, but are there any blood names that survived or were reaved and revived (reaving means the current blood names are wiped out and you can restart from the master copy right? ... right?)
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Reaving means they are no longer used. The Spirits were technically absorbed but effectively annihilated and their genetic repository destroyed. The Star Adders now technically control their genetic heritage, but the Home Clans and their whole view of 'taint' probably means that they won't be used. That's my view at least.
The only bloodnames that will have survived are the non-exclusive lines in use by the other 4 Home Clans... Zakok MIGHT be an example of this (or a red herring).
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For many years I didn't give two hoots about any Clan. Then I developed a fondness for the Blood Spirits, even though they were one of those vile blots on Mankind. Odd, I know.
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Me? I think there were survivors. I think some got away, there rebuilding, and letting there hate grow and grow. There's is just to much potential for mayhem that a resurgent Clan Blood Spirit could bring.
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I've noticed lately in other threads that allot of people seem to be glossing over the fact the Blood Spirits were just as bad hypocrites when it came to the Clans precious traditions that the rest of them were. I'm a huge Blood Spirit fan, but even I recognize they had just as much stupid, irrational behavior that got them into trouble more often than not as any other Clan did.
People gloss those things over because we're likable, and because everyone loves a spunky underdog!
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People gloss those things over because we're likable, and because everyone loves a spunky underdog!
And, also, because, overall, we KNOW we are being hypocritical, but, we at least are HONEST to ourselves
about it through our justifications of it. The other Clans never try to justify their hypocrisy, and just delude
themselves into thinking their way is the right way. We know our way is the right way..because of reasons!
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Reaving means they are no longer used. The Spirits were technically absorbed but effectively annihilated and their genetic repository destroyed. The Star Adders now technically control their genetic heritage, but the Home Clans and their whole view of 'taint' probably means that they won't be used. That's my view at least.
The only bloodnames that will have survived are the non-exclusive lines in use by the other 4 Home Clans... Zakok MIGHT be an example of this (or a red herring).
ok, I thought I read in WoR that any current holder was reaved ... but, if a clan wanted to they could use the master copy and start over again from the original genetic copies
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They could, but the ones who hold the power due to the Trial of Absorption is the Star Adders, and I would bet they will do no such thing. I know the Adders like to think reasonably most of the time, but I would not be surprised if they held a grudge forever against the Blood Spirits and never revived any of their lines.
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They could, but the ones who hold the power due to the Trial of Absorption is the Star Adders, and I would bet they will do no such thing. I know the Adders like to think reasonably most of the time, but I would not be surprised if they held a grudge forever against the Blood Spirits and never revived any of their lines.
$20 says the Adders traded the lines to the Lions. The Lions continue their roll and they and the Adders now vie for control in the homeworlds. Schmitt vs Truscott version 2.0
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ok, I thought I read in WoR that any current holder was reaved ... but, if a clan wanted to they could use the master copy and start over again from the original genetic copies
That was sort-of the original plan concocted by the Vipers. Any warrior who had contact with the Inner Sphere, any warrior who was created from a warrior who had contact with the Inner Sphere, or the genetic legacy of any warrior who had contact with the Inner Sphere was considered "tainted". (And yes, the Vipers did go to the IS, but they claimed they were safe b/c they only had contact with planets the Falcons had taken and Tukayyid). In theory it would roll back all genetics to the point where it hadn't made contact with the IS (but not necessarily all the way back to the line's founders).
They could, but the ones who hold the power due to the Trial of Absorption is the Star Adders, and I would bet they will do no such thing. I know the Adders like to think reasonably most of the time, but I would not be surprised if they held a grudge forever against the Blood Spirits and never revived any of their lines.
They held the rights, but the same thing happened with the Jaguars and Clan Mongoose. The Jaguars didn't want the legacies, but other Clans eventually claimed some (if not all). So it's possible the Adders don't use them, but someone else does.
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They held the rights, but the same thing happened with the Jaguars and Clan Mongoose. The Jaguars didn't want the legacies, but other Clans eventually claimed some (if not all). So it's possible the Adders don't use them, but someone else does.
Though, if I were the Adders, I would likely NOT allow the Schmitt Bloodname to fall into other hands. Remember that
the Clans believe in symbols. And nothing would be a bigger symbol then keeping the Clan Founder's Legacy exclusive,
though, with all those genetic legacies, they might use the Schmitt themselves, just because of how symbolic it would
be to have that Bloodname in their Clan. It would be a reminder to ALL the Clans what happens to those who oppose
them.
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The Schmitt Bloodname and Heritage would be used as an example I think, They would order it reaved as an example and destroy every legacy they could get there hands on. Other Blood Spirit heritages would be after a few generations available to trial for but for those who fought the Blood Spirits I could see them moving Heaven and Earth to keep anyone, including there own scientist from resurrecting them. I could even see the Adders hunting down former Blood Spirit mechs and destroying them.
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They held the rights, but the same thing happened with the Jaguars and Clan Mongoose. The Jaguars didn't want the legacies, but other Clans eventually claimed some (if not all). So it's possible the Adders don't use them, but someone else does.
$20 says the Adders traded the lines to the Lions. The Lions continue their roll and they and the Adders now vie for control in the homeworlds. Schmitt vs Truscott version 2.0
That's the fighting spirit. ;D
And it would still be the Adders not wanting anything to do with the Spirit genes.
I would expect exceptions, though. Maybe one genetic line here or there. Got to have exceptions to a rule, or it's not interesting. Tolkien knew this, and he passed it down the generations.
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Me? I think there were survivors. I think some got away, there rebuilding, and letting there hate grow and grow. There's is just to much potential for mayhem that a resurgent Clan Blood Spirit could bring.
Hey gang, I felt compelled to seek you guys out and then I stumbled across the above and thought to respond.
I just finished reading 'Blood Avatar' last night in my ongoing quest to read all the DA novels. In the story the character Dani Kodza (an anagram of the Zadok bloodname) spoke like a clanner and was suspected of having ties to the now dead Blood Spirits and some kind of Devlin Stone Guardian Cult. Without reading back through the previous 25 pages of this thread is there any other information regarding this?
Thanks!
-Gunz
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That's about it unfortunately.
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And the writers themselves have all but poo-pooed the possibility of this being true, as they keep pointing out that a couple of people on some backwater Republic world wouldn't be in a position to have information about this.
I think originally that this might've been something, but CGL has proven lately that they're willing to break with the previously-intended direction of MWDA and cut off loose plot threads entirely, so I doubt we'll ever see anything come of that.
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Which kind of suck as novels are always considered canon. But its a thread I don't think they will pursue. At most they might say the Zadok Bloodname was taken by another Homeworld Clan but I doubt they will have Clan Blood Spirit survivors in the Inner Sphere doing gods knows what, no matter how cool it would be.
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Maybe the Zadok blood name was revived by another homeworld clan...
Now if that person is from the clans, figure out how and why they are in the Republic
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And the writers themselves have all but poo-pooed the possibility of this being true, as they keep pointing out that a couple of people on some backwater Republic world wouldn't be in a position to have information about this.
One point, though, is that that poo-pooing was also about the extinction of the Blood Spirits, as their
basic way of saying that what actually happened in the Homeworlds was not knowable by the IS. It
is, actually, possible. They never said it wasn't. Just "How would someone on a backwater Republic
planet have this information?" type thing..
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Very true, how would someone from the Inner Sphere know what happened during the WoR, heck how would they know the WoR even happened? Its not like the Inner Sphere Clans are talking or there is any contact for trade. The Homeworlds and whats happened there since the Refusal should be one big "?".
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Very true, how would someone from the Inner Sphere know what happened during the WoR, heck how would they know the WoR even happened? Its not like the Inner Sphere Clans are talking or there is any contact for trade. The Homeworlds and whats happened there since the Refusal should be one big "?".
So..how did they know the Spirits were dead? That is where the question comes up. All the IS knew is that something
happened in the Homeworlds, and the Clans do NOT talk about it. There are all sorts of questions raised about that.
Since they DID know, we have to wonder HOW they knew?
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Rumor mill, it breaks light speed and nations borders.
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Very true, how would someone from the Inner Sphere know what happened during the WoR, heck how would they know the WoR even happened? Its not like the Inner Sphere Clans are talking or there is any contact for trade. The Homeworlds and whats happened there since the Refusal should be one big "?".
It was Victor. He knows everything.
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It was Victor. He knows everything.
Well he is close to the ground so he could keep his ear to it I suppose. :D
Actually I have a theory how news from the Homeworlds could have gotten out. One is the Adders invaded one or two of the Periphery realms and news could have filtered out from there, if in piecemeal form or it could have to do with why the Diamond Sharks changed there Clans name.
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Attention Somerset!
Latest update for the Clan Blood Spirit Naval Reserve I was planning a while back. I have them assembled, and am going to paint them up tomorrow. Though they technically are in their correct colours already as is. :p
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10440678_10152109744301892_854664211082474123_n.jpg)
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Yea... Just paint the gun ports and clear coat it... O0
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I painted mine up in different colors of steel and with a few panels in gunmetal. Then just windows details to liven things up.
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Rub them down with the finest steel wool you can get to give it a nice shine.
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any ideas on how the Spirit's CAN TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE????
;D ;D ;D
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Were annihilated in all but name. The only chance we have is that there are Blood Spirit survivors among the Green Ghosts or the odd jumpship that avoided the Star Adders or maybe raiding party that was away when the guillotine came down. I don't even think anyone took Blood Spirit bondsman at the end.
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Were annihilated in all but name. The only chance we have is that there are Blood Spirit survivors among the Green Ghosts or the odd jumpship that avoided the Star Adders or maybe raiding party that was away when the guillotine came down. I don't even think anyone took Blood Spirit bondsman at the end.
Well, at the end of The Wars Of Reaving, the Blood Spirit symbol is still visible, just extremely faded and covered in bullet holes.
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If we survive it will be from some future person who is a blood spirit descendent and one heck of a charismatic and capable warrior.
It'll be a new breed of BS (hah! I love puns) with new people and personae ... the old slights will be gone.
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My question is, and its been a while since I've read it, but how exactly do they know that the Blood Spirits didn't have any additional colonies out there?
Aren't we simply assuming some degree of Omniscience from the Diamond Shark's Watch?
If TPTB ever do want to bring them back, all they'd have to say is that there were colonies that the Diamond Sharks didn't know about.
Not that I'm saying its very plausible (Very small population base, perhaps not alot of infrastructure brought with them), but there is wiggle room.
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There was the book Blood Avatar which mentions some Blood Spirit warrior that just happens to randomly be in the RotS around 3138
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Eh, not quite. It was a person whose name happened to be an anagram of a Blood Spirit Bloodname. No indication if she was a warrior at all IIRC, and the name could have just been a coincidence.
Or she could've been a descendent of the Blood Spirit scientists that the Diamond Sharks picked up during the Reaving, and they're using anagrams to show their old allegiance.
Or something else entire. There just isn't any indication one way or another.
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My question is, and its been a while since I've read it, but how exactly do they know that the Blood Spirits didn't have any additional colonies out there?
Aren't we simply assuming some degree of Omniscience from the Diamond Shark's Watch?
If TPTB ever do want to bring them back, all they'd have to say is that there were colonies that the Diamond Sharks didn't know about.
Not that I'm saying its very plausible (Very small population base, perhaps not alot of infrastructure brought with them), but there is wiggle room.
You aren't thinking this all the way through.
First, the Colleen system WAS supposed to be their secret colony and they planned on using the resources located there to help them rebuild.
Second, the Blood Spirits only have limited resources. Founding and building two new colonies (Honor and Haven) was stretching their resources especially as they were attempting to do so in secret. Building two colonies at the same time in secret was hard enough, three
Third, the Blood Spirits weren't about to found a new colony without being able to provide a suitable defensive force especially since they knew that the Star Adders weren't finished with them.
Fourth, after the Clan Burrock fiasco the Star Adders weren't about to let another dead Clan revive themselves so the Diamond Shark Watch could safely make the assumption that the Star Adders were going to be overly thorough in making sure that Clan Blood Spirit was gone for good.
Fifth, the remaining Homeworld Clans have tried to be very thorough in ensure that the Dark Caste was eliminated which includes searching for any possible hideouts located in and around the Clan Homeworlds. This was probably how the Stone Lions stumbled across the Colleen system in the first place.
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"... a rag-tag, fugitive fleet..."
Yeah, it can be done! 8)
We just need to find some young warriors named Kirk, Atreides, Halloway, Verkosigan, Falkenberg, Hammer, Adama and Ivanova. ;)
(But no Skywalker: nope, never. Bloody loser!) ;D
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Well, at the end of The Wars Of Reaving, the Blood Spirit symbol is still visible, just extremely faded and covered in bullet holes.
Its because they were " absorbed" not annihilated... There's been a few discussions about this.
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Its because they were " absorbed" not annihilated... There's been a few discussions about this.
The reason there was discussion about it, though, is that none of the other Absorbed Clans got
the 'their symbols is still barely visible if you look REALLY hard' treatment.
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I actually believe there might have been some survivors at the end. After the Star Adders bombarded the last bastion of the Blood Spirits they set up a watch overhead with warships and destroyed any outgoing Dropship's attempting to escape. Those Dropship's were attempting to escape somewhere and the other world in-system was in worse shape. Its entirely possible there were Blood Spirit jumpships in-system somewhere awaiting to receive them. There was also one Blood Spirit jumpship that took a Diamond Shark merchant (Lorenzo?)back to his clan. Clan Warships always have a small number of warriors on board. Whether they returned to the Clan Homeworlds or were absorbed by the Diamond Sharks is unknown. I have a theory that one of two things happened, what's left of the Blood Spirit jumpship fleet awaited for any clan refugee's and when the Star Adders eventually shot down escaping Dropship's they jumped out of the Colleen System for a new destination. Two different things happen at this point. One eventually joins the Green Ghosts and repaint there gear but leave Blood Spirit markings to show former loyalties. Or they make there way to the Inner Sphere and set up shop somewhere in the RoTS and quietly rebuild the Clan as more of a secret society with Clan eugenics being hidden in a cryovault (reason for that fish reference in the novel that could survive deep freezing)of some kind with the rest of the Clan living normal Inner Sphere lives elsewhere. They are not a military-centric clan though just a secret society attempting to survive.
Another theory is that the reference to the Clans in the novel is the Star Adders created new legacys from Blood Spirit genetics and then as an insult denied them military training but are using former Blood Spirit legacys to create a spy caste to send to the Inner Sphere to scout it out as sort of a unarmed "Wolf Dragoons".
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If get my clan culture straight,
any missing or surviving BS true born would be absorbed and become more or less part of their new clan ... even a Blood Spirit, especially if s/he knew what happened to the rest of the clan.
Considering the current split between Home and IS clans, if an IS clan wanted to use genetic material to keep open a blood name or blood heritage I suppose they could.
Obviously, there are not enough remaining BS warriors to do much of anything. Except maybe dream.
As fans we get to rewrite the story though!
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While, Lorenzo was given a JumpShip and DropShip any Blood Spirit warriors aboard would have returned to their Clan. It is clear that no warriors, whether Blood Spirit or Shark, accompanied him on his journey to the Inner Sphere.
"The Bandits were not ready for a defiant crew; though mostly unarmed, the Sharks mobbed and pummeled the boarders with whatever they could scrounge.... Through guile and deceit, Lorenzo then led a force of now-armed civilians against the Bandit JumpShip, seizing it and two DropShips worth of cargo." (WoR, p134)
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There had to have been at least one warrior as a Jumpship is always commanded by a Aerospace Warrior though most likely one who was over age or was the bottom of his class. The mob of Diamond Sharks might have attacked but a ships captain would have remained with his ship.
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There had to have been at least one warrior as a Jumpship is always commanded by a Aerospace Warrior though most likely one who was over age or was the bottom of his class. The mob of Diamond Sharks might have attacked but a ships captain would have remained with his ship.
Not when there weren't any available. And that may have been the case during pre-WoR times, but as most people know the WoR were anything but normal times. Some of the lower castemen were probably sibbies who failed their Trial of Position.
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Possibly, I'm not sure how many aerospace phenotypes the Blood Spirits had but I have a hard time imagining the Blood Spirits no matter how stretched out they were to give a jumpship command to a tech no matter what his background. A good bet a good hunk of the crew though were from aerospace graduate failures.
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Possibly, I'm not sure how many aerospace phenotypes the Blood Spirits had but I have a hard time imagining the Blood Spirits no matter how stretched out they were to give a jumpship command to a tech no matter what his background.
You seem to keep forgetting that it wasn't a Blood Spirit JumpShip/DropShip any more, it was a Diamond Shark. The Blood Spirits were under no illusion that the ships would be coming back.
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I also don't see the Blood Spirits giving up a jumpship to the Diamond Sharks on a merchants say so and a trial of trivia. The Blood Spirits are very traditional and there jumpship fleet is too small to just be giving away ships! They expected the ship to return or it had other orders once it reached the Inner Sphere.
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I also don't see the Blood Spirits giving up a jumpship to the Diamond Sharks on a merchants say so and a trial of trivia. The Blood Spirits are very traditional and there jumpship fleet is too small to just be giving away ships! They expected the ship to return or it had other orders once it reached the Inner Sphere.
Having you forgotten about the sacrifice of the CDS Titanic and a large portion of its DropShips when the Diamond Sharks attempted to deliver its cargo of newly manufactured Crimson Hawks to the Blood Spirits in August 3073 several months before Lorenzo began his journey?
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That was business, and the Diamnond Sharks were paid, well paid for the risks.
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That was business, and the Diamnond Sharks were paid, well paid for the risks.
They were certainly not paid enough to risk and ultimately sacrifice a Potemkin Class Troop Cruiser and leaving a Fredasa Class Corvette barely crippled and barely able to make the journey back to the Inner Sphere. They had been operating off the belief that the Star Adders were still letting merchant vessels travel to York unmolested. It would have made far more sense to make other arrangement to hand over the cargo than to risk running the blockade.
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True, but I doubt the Blood Spirits would give up a Jumpship as payment to a clan that has abandonded the Homeworlds. They may have more interest in extending very quiet and secret trade with the Diamond Sharks though.
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I always wondered why the DS didn't try to enter with more force ... I think it would have cool to stir the pot some more and get the Adders to try to push more towards the IS.
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Don't worry, they will.
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Don't worry, they will.
Who, us??????? ;D
The Diamond Sharks seemed reluctant to even fulfill their agreement. They were warned not to run the blockade and did so anyway. I think once was enough for them.
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well, earlier ... would have taken pressure off of all the other clans, us included.
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Anybody know if any Blood Kites made it as far as the Clan Occupation Zones? And if so what Clan may have had them? Working on a scenario and a Blood Kite would be a interesting ringer to throw out there.
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Anybody know if any Blood Kites made it as far as the Clan Occupation Zones? And if so what Clan may have had them? Working on a scenario and a Blood Kite would be a interesting ringer to throw out there.
I would think you might have a couple, but not many people other than the Adders and Burrocks did battle with the Blood Spirits, before ties to the homeworlds were cut. I do imagine if there are any in the IS they are still functioning, standard 255 engine, commonly available weapons systems, the only tricky thing would be replacement Endo-Steel structure.
As far as cannon examples I cannot think of one.
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Anybody know if any Blood Kites made it as far as the Clan Occupation Zones? And if so what Clan may have had them? Working on a scenario and a Blood Kite would be a interesting ringer to throw out there.
The obvious answer is best, SharkFoxes.
It's possible the Horses might have one or two. They did a lot of swapping with the Adders and took a couple Adder clusters with them. Possible a Blood Kite went with them.
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MUL says no. Looks like none ever made it out of the homeworlds.
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None in significant amounts. I could see a few here and there. These things happen... Salvage and all. I'd go for it.
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MUL says no. Looks like none ever made it out of the homeworlds.
Fah! What does the MUL know anyway? ;)
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MUL is more a matter of a guideline than actual laws...
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It has more to do with a little fight between the Jade Falcons and the Wolves than anything else and was wondering either Clan might have had a Blood Kite in there forces.
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It has more to do with a little fight between the Jade Falcons and the Wolves than anything else and was wondering either Clan might have had a Blood Kite in there forces.
Here you go... Duke Truscott. Wolf Alpha Galaxy (I think) Star Colonel in FM3085.
He came with the Adders who joined the Horses, got bumped to a secondline command there and snatches up a Blood Kite that came with the Adders.
He's taken as a bondsman by Wolves in a fight with the Horses and they take his mech when he goes back up to a frontline command.
The only canon part is he is a Wolf Star Colonel in 3085. The rest is pure conjecture, but it fits the puzzle.
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Little later than I want but hey, I'll take it!
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To the Blood Spirit purists here, question...
Would the warriors of the Blood Spirits honestly use a Star Adder made mech such as the Blood Asp?
I ask because I am going to do a Blood Asp trinary in the Blood Guard Keshik colors, but I was thinking of tossing out one of the assaults (either Masakari or Kingfisher) I already have on the list for the Blood Asp.
Currently I have the following (intentionally rounded force of lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults)...
Baboon "Howler" 2
Koshi "Myst Lynx" C
Puma "Adder" D
Griffin IIC 4
Black Hawk "Nova" H
Crimson Langur Prime
Stooping Hawk Prime
Galahad "Glass Spider" 3
Grizzly Standard
Crossbow C
Thor "Summoner" M
Blood Kite Standard
Marauder IIC 2
Masakari "Warhawk" C
Kingfisher Prime
Thanks
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The Blood Guard Keshik uses only Assault and Heavy Mechs but there small number of those probably would allow the use of former Star Adder designs to be included into the unit. At least until a non-Star Adder mech could be found to replace it, then it probably would be sent to another unit.
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Yeah, I know they only use Heavy & Assault, but I'm only doing 1 BS unit, so I wanted something rounded with all class of mechs.
What do you think fits LESS with their kind of blitzing/overwhelming force tactics of this unit? Masakari, Blood Asp, or Kingfisher?
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The least useful one would be the Kingfisher but its a design that's prevelant in a Blood Spirit Touman.
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Yeah, just noticed that when going back to look at FM:CC. I hate this! lol
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I don't think the Blood Spirits would not use an assault mech out of sheer spite ... I'd use it, possibly trading it away at the first fair opportunity.
It might come down to a cost/benefit analysis, but we BS can be an oddly fickle bunch. I say keep it.
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I say keep it.
Keep what...the Blood Asp or the ones I already have for this unit?
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If it really comes down to it, lose the Warhawk. An Omni would be harder piece of equipment to maintain for a struggling Clan and very rare as it is. My Blood Guard Keshik Trinary only three or four are actually Omni's with the rest being second line designs. Two of those are a Dire Wolf and a Warhawk. The bulk of the force is made up of things like Blood Kites, Highlander IIc's, Galahads, etc, etc. Designs seen as second line in other Clans I use as the Top Dogs in my Keshik.
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For what it's worth, CamoSpecs has Spirit-painted Blood Asps in a variety of schemes. The Spirits would use whatever they could salvage from the battlefields, considering the other extremes they went to, they couldn't afford to be picky.
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Thansk for the additional replies, but they bring up a question...
I have not gone back to read the full write-ups on Clan Blood Spirit so I apologize if this next question is dumb, but I intend to read those write-ups in the next couple days, as soon as my 4 month old son lets me! lol
I thought Clan Blood Spirit was a pretty decently setup clan with good mechs & such, not in a desperate situation as you both state they are. I do remember from WoR they got the crap kicked out of them...twice, and annihilated (supposedly...had to know based on the design seen on the attackers of the HPG's during the blackout...kinda sounds like a variation of the Blood spirit insignia), but prior to that...were they that bad off?
If so...I think the Warhawk would make more sense than the Blood Asp since Warhawks are older designs that (possibly) no one would want.
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Various sources hint that the Blood Spirits lean toward being one of the more "resource poor" Clans.
One of the reasons it doesn't seem that way, is because they traded much of their warship fleet for Galaxies of mostly second-line machines from the Snow Ravens. Its been a while since that deal was concluded, but the Blood Spirit Touman was grown via that deal, whole new Galaxies were created from it. The TRO: 3067 writeup for the Blood Kite tells us that around the time the Clans were fighting for OmniMech technology, the Blood Spirits could only field three understrength Galaxies. They designed the Blood Kite to be cost effective and durable, based on new design parameters that tried to make the most of the Clan's limited resources.
The Blood Spirits have never held a lot of territory, that means less resources. Relative to the territory they possess, their touman (notably the number of active Clusters and Galaxies) is huge. The Blood Spirits seem to have no trouble training good warriors, but it has been suggested that they are forced to take a "anything will do" mentality when filling out their units sometimes (such as dropping a second-line machine into a front-line unit). This has been especially true in desperate crisis situations, such as the aftermath of the Absorption War.
The limited Blood Spirit resources I think, are most talked about in the books that reference WHY they adopted ProtoMechs to such a level that they did. Apparently they did so to make the most out of their limited resources.
It's been mentioned in other places as well. In the Crimson Langur writeup for TRO: 3067 for example, it says that because of their "low resources" the Blood Spirits were forced to contact Kindraa Mick-Kreese to engage in co-development of the new mech. A similar reference is made in the write-up for the Arcadia dropship in that same TRO.
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There main issue was the fact that they had withdrawn totally to York and rarely trialed for anything. They were rarely in attendance at Council meetings that some Clans even forgot they existed! There few contacts were mostly through merchants and the Blood Guard Keshik on Strana Mechty. Even before the Inner Sphere Invasion they only put up a token force to trial for a spot in the Invasion as they knew they lacked the resources to take part in it. One thing to note is they used regular vehicles as part of there units were other Clans had long ago removed them from there Touman putting them in the rare few who still bid armor when they did trial other clans. But they were masters of getting everything out of what they had for such a poor clan and even developed one of the better non-Omni designs the Homeworlds had ever seen and I believe there warriors were exceedingly good in comparison to some other Clans. The addition of the Protomech added a whole new dimension to there warfare and allowed them to increase there numbers on the field. I honestly believe if the other Clans hadn't found the Colleen system they would have been able to build themselves up to be able to compete with the other Clans like the Coyotes and the Stone Lions within a few years. They just got discovered too soon.
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Awesome, thanks for the info Stormlion1 & Alan Grant, that helps a lot. I had no idea they were so "poor" as far as resources and more or less had to scavenge for what they did have, and I definitely don't ever recall the Snow Raven deal as mentioned by Alan. All of that info will help...thanks guys!
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If I'm a Blood Spirit and I can run an isorla Blood Asp, I'm in. The mech named to slight you by your mortal enemy. What better justice than to smash him with it.
Plus, the Spirits are essentially constantly fighting the Adders on York so you know they end up with some. It's better than most of the stuff the Spirits have access to as well.
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If I'm a Blood Spirit and I can run an isorla Blood Asp, I'm in. The mech named to slight you by your mortal enemy. What better justice than to smash him with it.
Plus, the Spirits are essentially constantly fighting the Adders on York so you know they end up with some. It's better than most of the stuff the Spirits have access to as well.
The sad part is that on York the Star Adders were purposefully deploying second-line 'Mechs against them as an insult making the Blood Asp hard to find on York.
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It was a mech designed to insult the Blood Spirits, I'm pretty certain a few were used on York for just that purpose.
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The sad part is that on York the Star Adders were purposefully deploying second-line 'Mechs against them as an insult making the Blood Asp hard to find on York.
Honestly, I really think the purpose of York was the Adders using it to prepare their troops for a renewed
invasion of the Inner Sphere. No Zelbriggen, dirty fighting, armed civilians, etc? Just like what the Inner
Sphere would throw at any invading Clan forces. If they could fight them using Clan Tech, then they would
be able to deal with them using Inner Sphere tech..
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Which is hilarious because except for on fight in the Great Refusal the Adders have never fought the Inner Sphere. So all there training on York was a waste. Something any good Clanner should abhor.
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Which is hilarious because except for on fight in the Great Refusal the Adders have never fought the Inner Sphere. So all there training on York was a waste. Something any good Clanner should abhor.
Only because the Wars of Reaving stopped the renewed invasion.
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Honestly, I really think the purpose of York was the Adders using it to prepare their troops for a renewed
invasion of the Inner Sphere. No Zelbriggen, dirty fighting, armed civilians, etc? Just like what the Inner
Sphere would throw at any invading Clan forces. If they could fight them using Clan Tech, then they would
be able to deal with them using Inner Sphere tech..
I think this is a fitting harbinger of a new Clan invasion as well. O0
My not-spider senses say that what happened on York was a dramatic hint of the kind of things the Home Clans were now prepared to do, how they realized warfare was treated too much like a game for too long. The IS and then the tainted Invading Clans used the Clan ideal of structured warfare to take advantage. Totally agreed with the thought that the Clans will bring no kid gloves with them when things go down again.
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True, the Star Adders fought with a fury that has been unseen for ages. Not since the days of the Star League or the early Succession Wars. The only weapon they didn't use were nuclear weapons and I believe they still are capable of producing warships. There is what, four surviving Homeworld Clans so in the event of a new Inner Sphere Invasion we could see Warships, Omni's, Protos's and BA in quite a large number and not playing honor games with there opponents. Might be interesting I think, but the small number of Clans might be a problem.
Makes me wonder, are the Star Adders larger than the Ghost Bears at this point?
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Honestly, I really think the purpose of York was the Adders using it to prepare their troops for a renewed
invasion of the Inner Sphere. No Zelbriggen, dirty fighting, armed civilians, etc? Just like what the Inner
Sphere would throw at any invading Clan forces. If they could fight them using Clan Tech, then they would
be able to deal with them using Inner Sphere tech..
Not likely. After all, that is why Upsilon Galaxy was dispatched to the Inner Sphere. Other than Upsilon Galaxy, the Star Adders made no moves to prepare to invade the Inner Sphere. Unlike the Hell's Horses or Ice Hellions, they were about to leave they HW holdings with minimal defenses, not with hostilities among the Clan Homeworlds beginning to heat up. And there weren't any armed civilians on York until after the Wars of Reaving broke out and the Blood Spirits were on the ropes.
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keep the Asp ... but I think that's been said already 8)
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Not likely. After all, that is why Upsilon Galaxy was dispatched to the Inner Sphere. Other than Upsilon Galaxy, the Star Adders made no moves to prepare to invade the Inner Sphere. Unlike the Hell's Horses or Ice Hellions, they were about to leave they HW holdings with minimal defenses, not with hostilities among the Clan Homeworlds beginning to heat up. And there weren't any armed civilians on York until after the Wars of Reaving broke out and the Blood Spirits were on the ropes.
The Adders don't want to chip off their own little piece of the Sphere. They want to lead ALL the clans to take it over and restore the Star League. They were trying to make that happen but things went all catawampus in the meantime. I'm not going to get into a debate here about their means to those ends cuz I myself don't like all of them.
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Not likely. After all, that is why Upsilon Galaxy was dispatched to the Inner Sphere. Other than Upsilon Galaxy, the Star Adders made no moves to prepare to invade the Inner Sphere. Unlike the Hell's Horses or Ice Hellions, they were about to leave they HW holdings with minimal defenses, not with hostilities among the Clan Homeworlds beginning to heat up. And there weren't any armed civilians on York until after the Wars of Reaving broke out and the Blood Spirits were on the ropes.
See, if you are going into the Inner Sphere to truly take it over, not carve out a small piece of it, you need to
be prepared to fight what the Inner Sphere is going to throw at you. The Adders knew the IS had learned
how to use Clan Honour against them. So, they were blooding two whole generations of warriors in an environment,
the ONLY environment, in fact, in all of Clan Space, where Clan Honour would never be a factor. Eventually, those
lessons would have filtered through to their training program, and all Adder Warriors would be prepared to fight
in the Inner Sphere, because the Spirits fighting on York fought like back to the wall Inner Sphere Warriors.
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Makes me wonder, are the Star Adders larger than the Ghost Bears at this point?
Unfortunately I think yes. WoR puts the Adders at 12 Galaxies (and yes many damaged). FM 3145 puts the Bears also at 12, with one being Valkyrie's aerospace clusters. Since theirs a sixty year time gap you could probably assume they have rebuilt (if of course they didn't all destroy each other). Their naval assets consist of 13 warships of various classes (including a Nightlord and McKenna), while the Ghost Bears have a Leviathan :D
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Ok, I've decided...Blood Asp is in, Masakari is out. Almost pulled the Kingfisher or Marauder IIC 2 that I have in this group rather than the Masakari. Due to the Kingfishers standard engine, and the fact it swamps the RAT's for Clan Blood Spirit...it was not right to pull that one. The Marauder IIC 2 seemed like a good fit for the unit as well based on the fact that they did use a LOT of Second Line units on the front lines as you guys said (re-read the Field Manual Crusader Clans yesterday).
Thanks for the help guys!
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Mad IIC2 was another mech the Adders built with swatting the Spirits in mind. It would work but I agree the Kingfisher is a good choice.
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See, if you are going into the Inner Sphere to truly take it over, not carve out a small piece of it, you need to
be prepared to fight what the Inner Sphere is going to throw at you. The Adders knew the IS had learned
how to use Clan Honour against them. So, they were blooding two whole generations of warriors in an environment,
the ONLY environment, in fact, in all of Clan Space, where Clan Honour would never be a factor. Eventually, those
lessons would have filtered through to their training program, and all Adder Warriors would be prepared to fight
in the Inner Sphere, because the Spirits fighting on York fought like back to the wall Inner Sphere Warriors.
As previously stated that is what Upsilon Galaxy's mission was for. While the fighting on York was undoubtedly brutal and gave the Star Adders' forces combat experience there is nothing to indicate that they fought like Inner Sphere forces. All out assaults doesn't prepare you for guerrilla warfare or mobile warfare. While indirectly the combat experience may prepare the Star Adders for an invasion of the Inner Sphere, it won't prepare them for Inner Sphere tactics.
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York was a good place to blood newly minted Star Adder troops, and they kept up a rotation there to do so. It had less to do with training against IS troops than in training troops and punishing the Spirits for interfering with the Burrock Absorbtion.
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York was a good place to blood newly minted Star Adder troops, and they kept up a rotation there to do so. It had less to do with training against IS troops than in training troops and punishing the Spirits for interfering with the Burrock Absorbtion.
Exactly.
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The blood asp is on our rats. Nothing wrong with using it.
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Never liked RAT's. So many people seem too beholden to them when it comes to picking there forces.
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I agree. It is up there so we should have them in some numbers.
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Never liked RAT's. So many people seem too beholden to them when it comes to picking there forces.
I've always viewed it as if it's on the RAT they definitely have it. If it's not they might still have a few, your universe have fun.
I think both RAT and fluff agree the Spirits should have some Blood Asps. I'll add to it that they look really good in most of the Spirit paint schemes. You can only do black and blue with a little touch of xyz for so long before it gets old.
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Ok, so now that I got my Blood Guard Keshik all set after reading the Field Manuals & WoR again...I've changed it up again to be more like the actual Blood Guard Keshik. With the left over mechs (lights & mediums)...now I'm making an Omega Galaxy...
Let me know what you guys think of these 2 units...
Blood Guard Keshik
Galahad "Glass Spider" (Unseen)
Predator
Thresher 2
Cauldron-Born Prime
Crossbow C
Rifleman IIC 3
Thor "Summoner" M
Mad Cat "Timber Wolf" Prime
Blood Kite
Marauder IIC 2
Blood Asp Prime
Highlander IIC
Kingfisher Prime
Supernova
Daishi "Dire Wolf" Prime
Omega Galaxy
Baboon "Howler" 2
Hankyu "Arctic Cheetah" Prime
Peregrine "Horned Owl" 4
Battle Cobra B
Griffin IIC 4
Black Hawk H
Crimson Langur Prime
Stooping Hawk Prime
Hellfire
Crossbow Prime
Grizzly
Warhammer IIC 3
Blood Kite 2
Blood Asp Prime
Kingfisher F
Just a note, I realize the Ebon Jaguar does not appear on the RAT's...but I pulled the info from the TRO entry stating that their IlChi to the Cloud Cobras piloted one...and I was stuck on which heavy mech to include so it worked out...
Thanks
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If a Blood Asp can appear in a Jade Falcon unit fighting in the Inner Sphere then an Ebon Jaguar, which has been in production a lot longer, can certainly appear in any Homeworld Clan.
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The Ebon Jaguar should be as prevelant as the Mad Dog with homeworld clans by the late 3060s. It's the most common heavy on several clans RATs at that point. Say what you want about RATs but if everyone has them then there are lots of them.
I have one question, what the heck is a Hellfire D?
I have one comment, needs more Blood Kite. They're better in pairs.
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I have one question, what the heck is a Hellfire D?
I have one comment, needs more Blood Kite. They're better in pairs.
Ya know...that's a damn good question! LOL It was supposed to be the standard variant, but my big ole' thumbs got in the way.
As far as the Blood Kite...yeah, I know, but there's only so much room in a Trinary! lol
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Not sure of the size class of all those off-hand, but one rule of thumb for the Keshik: they don't field anything lighter than heavy-class. Just FYI.
Where was a Blood Asp shown in a Falcon unit? One of the Jihad-era MilSpecs article states that the only Blood Asp seen in the Inner Sphere appeared among the Hell's Horses.
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Not sure of the size class of all those off-hand, but one rule of thumb for the Keshik: they don't field anything lighter than heavy-class. Just FYI.
Where was a Blood Asp shown in a Falcon unit? One of the Jihad-era MilSpecs article states that the only Blood Asp seen in the Inner Sphere appeared among the Hell's Horses.
Yep, originally I wanted a "rounded" force even though the Blood Guard used Heavy & Assaults only. After re-reading Field Manual Crusader Clans, Field Manual Updates, and Wars of Reaving sections on the Blood Spirits...I decided to break up my "rounded" force & make an Omega Galaxy with the Lights & Mediums and add in some Heavies & Assaults, and to throw more Heavies & Assaults in to the Guards to make it a complete Trinary with appropriate mechs.
I'm not sure where the Jade Falcon/Blood Asp mech thing is coming from. I've never read that, but I also don't remember ever reading anything on the Hell's Horses using a Blood Asp either...but I'd have to assume there's at least 1 of them in any clan as isorla.
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I'm not sure where the Jade Falcon/Blood Asp mech thing is coming from. I've never read that, but I also don't remember ever reading anything on the Hell's Horses using a Blood Asp either...but I'd have to assume there's at least 1 of them in any clan as isorla.
From Operation Audacity (Chapter 17, p164 paperback). Star Colonel Amano Roshak of the Seventy-fourth Battle Cluster pilots a Blood Asp on Crimond when going into combat against Phelan's Wolves.
"Roshak's Blood Asp, surely a prize from some battle on the homeworlds, was surrounded and made the mistake of engaging multiple targets in the heat of battle."
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Thank goodness MilSpecs is in-character, then. It makes for a fantastic explanation for inconsistencies.
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Could easily just be Viper isorla. They likely had some Blood Asps since they were buddies with the Adders for a while
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Many of your choices I have in my own Blood Guard Keshik. The only one I would wonder about is the addition of a Timber Wolf. Not sure why but that's one design I just don't see in a Blood Spirit unit. But that's just me.
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I'm ok with that. It appears on the FM:U RAT once and the Grizzly's there twice; of the two, I know which I'd prefer. Also consider just how quickly and wide-spread various designs can become due to the nature of salvage amongst the Clans. I'm building a 7th Blood Drinkers force, and I'm sticking a Hellion in a pursuit star. Not on the RAT, not all that common at all outside of the Ice Hellions and definitely rare with a Clan that rarely fought and never traded with the Hellions, but it's possible to have a couple somewhere in the Spirit Touman.
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Well the Ice Hellions did take a lot of damage during their Hellions' Fury campaign and the Blood Spirits could have captured/acquired some second- or third-hand.
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The Adders fielded at least one Hellion on York in the "Tears of Blood" serial. Bam, Adder salvage.
As for the Blood Asp, the MilSpec article made it pretty clear that it was the only example that ComStar had ever seen in the Inner Sphere to date. Which could've just been foreshadowing for the Adders that joined up with the Hell's Horses. Or could've just been isorla from a Homeworld Trial or another.
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There are a lot of things that aren't on the rats that you can easily justify. Again... Rats are a suggestion. They are something that the faction WILL have.
In my Upsilon galaxy I have a LOT of SL mechs and vee's. Some are upgraded with clan weapons and FF and some are royals. I have only a hand full of Omni's and second line clan mechs vee's and elementals.
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I don't recall reading it, but I was wondering, given the Blood Spirits desperate issues with resources...would the Blood Guard have used Vehicles? I don't think so based on what I read...but I could have missed something.
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I always assumed so, simply because of their
strict fanatical adherence to the original 3-Mech, 1-tank, 1-infantry cluster TO&E. In this way, the "Blood Guard Keshik is entirely heavy and assault 'Mechs" line is talking purely about those three 'Mech trinaries.
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I am 50/50 on that question. On the one hand, they're very clear on their Cluster standards across the board. On the other, the entry itself specifically says that the unit is made up entirely of heavies and assaults, and I think of any exception would ever be made pre-WoR, it'd be the Keshik.
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During the Great Refusal they used vehicles against House Kurita's forces ... unfortunately the BS got their but kicked. I would have been satisfied with a draw, but the loss was so dues ex machina that it was almost painful to read.
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During the Great Refusal they used vehicles against House Kurita's forces ... unfortunately the BS got their but kicked. I would have been satisfied with a draw, but the loss was so dues ex machina that it was almost painful to read.
Right, but was this specifically the Blood Guard Keshik? That's the main question.
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Every unit in CBS adheres to this. We disband a unit if it doesn't comply but those that are disbanded will go to other units to keep them up to code.
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The Blood Guard Keshik does use vehicles I believe, elementals as well and always best of the best of the Clan. This is the premier unit of the Clan after all, there showpiece unit. I find it odd though that we don't see a mention of the unit being destroyed during the WoR and its not listed among the units the Blood Spirits had operational when the end came. This is the reason I believe some of the Spirits may have survived. Its entirely possible the Keshik may have been sent elsewhere before the Adders came to the Colleen System.
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It's speculated in the WoR that when the Stooping Kite & Rocinante went to the Ghost Bears to negotiate for (if I recall correctly) some enclaves on the world of Arcadia...things went south because the GB's were in a rush to leave the area for the IS and the Blood Spirits destroyed the GB's jump ship. At that time, the GB's launched anything that could fly & destroyed the Rocinante...and it's speculated that the Blood Guard Keshik was aboard when it went down because that was the Blood Guard's flagship if I recall events properly.
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. . . has anyone else noticed how many of our common 'Mechs have bird names? This literally just struck me like a bolt out of the blue. Blood Kite, Warhawk, Kingfisher, and Stooping Hawk are all manufactured by, or feature heavily on the RATs, of the Spirits. Hell, we even had the Crimson Hawk before the Sharks walked off with it.
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. . . has anyone else noticed how many of our common 'Mechs have bird of prey names? This literally just struck me like a bolt out of the blue. Blood Kite, Warhawk, Kingfisher, and Stooping Hawk are all manufactured by, or feature heavily on the RATs, of the Spirits. Hell, we even had the Crimson Hawk before the Sharks walked off with it.
Corrected. O0 After all you don't see any Clan 'Mechs called hummingbird, parrot, dove or pigeon.
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It's speculated in the WoR that when the Stooping Kite & Rocinante went to the Ghost Bears to negotiate for (if I recall correctly) some enclaves on the world of Arcadia...things went south because the GB's were in a rush to leave the area for the IS and the Blood Spirits destroyed the GB's jump ship. At that time, the GB's launched anything that could fly & destroyed the Rocinante...and it's speculated that the Blood Guard Keshik was aboard when it went down because that was the Blood Guard's flagship if I recall events properly.
Very true or possibly destroyed when the Blood Spirits raced ahead to destroy the Steel Vipers. But you would think they would rebuild the Khans personal Keshik or at the least give it some sort of mention! Particulary for a unit that almost never leaves Strana Mechty!
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Very true or possibly destroyed when the Blood Spirits raced ahead to destroy the Steel Vipers. But you would think they would rebuild the Khans personal Keshik or at the least give it some sort of mention! Particulary for a unit that almost never leaves Strana Mechty!
Agreed, I'd prefer a fight to the last man for a Keshik...but we are not writers of this game! LOL
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Right, but was this specifically the Blood Guard Keshik? That's the main question.
Yep, it was indeed. "Twilight of the Clans" (the scenario book, not the novel series) specifically states that the Blood Guard Keshik fought the 1st Genyosha.
. . . has anyone else noticed how many of our common 'Mechs have bird names? This literally just struck me like a bolt out of the blue. Blood Kite, Warhawk, Kingfisher, and Stooping Hawk are all manufactured by, or feature heavily on the RATs, of the Spirits. Hell, we even had the Crimson Hawk before the Sharks walked off with it.
I did. And you can add the Stooping Hawk (the WarShip) to that list as well. :)
As for the Keshik being destroyed, my educated guess (based on the fact that the Blood Spirits almost always kept this unit posted on Strana Mechty) is that it was destroyed when the Adders took out their Strana Mechty enclave when the Absorption vote passed.
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As for the Keshik being destroyed, my educated guess (based on the fact that the Blood Spirits almost always kept this unit posted on Strana Mechty) is that it was destroyed when the Adders took out their Strana Mechty enclave when the Absorption vote passed.
The problem is the Blood Guard Keshik isn't listed on the Blood Spirit Touman from WoR. Only odd unit out is from the Alpha Galaxy is the Red Guards. I think that was the SaKhans personal unit, but I'm not sure of that. And the SaKhan died (Valiantly!) on Strana Mechty so my guess is that unit was there as well in place of the Blood Guard Keshik.
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I did. And you can add the Stooping Hawk (the WarShip) to that list as well. :)
That's the Stooping Kite.
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That's the Stooping Kite.
Honest mistake. :P
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here the new topic of the day-- Blood Spirit's as iclan and leader of all the clans on Terra plus inner sphere and home worlds' have fun with it
:) O0 ;D
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And friggin' Phelan gets stepped on by a Dragonfly in a mech bay!
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Be more interesting to see how they got the top spot. Maybe Kerensky picked the Blood Spirits rather than the Wolves and they just held the top spot over the Centuries. They were the Clan the survivors of the Black Watch went to and the odd clan out for not being named for an animal but an ideal. And Nicky K was always about ideals.
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Personally I think he was a mad genius fueled by alcohol...
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I always thought he did the good drugs when no one was looking.
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I think way back in the day ... Bryan Nystul (sp) had a version of events where the Jags did horribly during the invasion and were replaced by the Spirits.
Lets go with that!
Maybe the Jags could be sent packing and take their frustration out on the Adders, with a bit less Adder-gods giving them the fiat-power.
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I have toyed with an idea for a game at home for when Interstellar Ops finally comes out, where each of
the Clan player sin my home group, and each of hte IS players, takes command of their faction during the
invasion.
My take on Blood Spirit taking part in the Invasion is: they come in with EVERYTHING. They Move the entire
contents of York, civilians, factories, everything and drop with EVERYTHING. The first worlds they take are
set up with their industrial base, shortening their supply chain as their civilians start working and beginning
to train their new populations in how to do things the Clan way.
I generally think the Spirits would take this approach because taking part in the Invasion would be an all-or-nothing
gamble on their part. Literally a "We win...or we die." Also, they are the only Clan that could actually pull off that
sort of gamble at the time.
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An interesting idea would be which Invasion Corridor would they opt for? I kind of see them leapfrogging the other Clans and striking ai the very edge of the Combine, maybe even the Outworlds Alliance. The other Clans might see it as hitting a Periphery Realm, but to the Spirits its an easy target with no hope of resupply or reinforcements. Once they take that small nation they can turn it into there own little realm and then drive towards Terra from there. everyone else is up fighting the other Invasion Corridors.
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An interesting idea would be which Invasion Corridor would they opt for? I kind of see them leapfrogging the other Clans and striking ai the very edge of the Combine, maybe even the Outworlds Alliance. The other Clans might see it as hitting a Periphery Realm, but to the Spirits its an easy target with no hope of resupply or reinforcements. Once they take that small nation they can turn it into there own little realm and then drive towards Terra from there. everyone else is up fighting the other Invasion Corridors.
It would be either that...or Steiner...but, frankly, I would not touch the OWA..that way lies: losing all your dropships in space.
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My take on Blood Spirit taking part in the Invasion is: they come in with EVERYTHING. They Move the entire
contents of York, civilians, factories, everything and drop with EVERYTHING. The first worlds they take are
set up with their industrial base, shortening their supply chain as their civilians start working and beginning
to train their new populations in how to do things the Clan way.
I generally think the Spirits would take this approach because taking part in the Invasion would be an all-or-nothing
gamble on their part. Literally a "We win...or we die." Also, they are the only Clan that could actually pull off that
sort of gamble at the time.
You mean the Blood Spirits stopping ALL military production for over a year (more likely more than a year)? ??? Not likely.
They are far more likely to build a small mobile production facility, similar to the Jade Falcons' Eagle Craft Group, that could produce a wide variety of military equipment in limited numbers and take that with them. I would imagine that it would be a year at the earliest (probably longer) after the invasion before they started moving their fixed manufacturing facilities to the Inner Sphere. It would take that long to take planets, for their merchants to locate sources of raw materials on their new holding and determine the best locations for the various facilities. Once that has been determined, they would have to determine whether the local infrastructure is able to handle the new facility (each facility would have to be determined separately) or whether they would have to build their own.
At that point, they could send word back to the Clan Homeworlds to start breaking down the applicable facilities there while they make any needed changes to the local infrastructure so that it can handle the production facility and its workers (improving the power grid, setting up housing for the workers, build the manufacturing building(s), build secondary production facilities that won't be moved such as smelters, etc).
It takes months of research, planning and negotiations for any modern-day manufacturer to build a new factory. While the Blood Spirits wouldn't need to bother with negotiations, they would still need to do plenty of research and planning.
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An interesting idea would be which Invasion Corridor would they opt for?
Is it a question of which Invasion Corridor they would opt for or which Invasion Corridor they would be able to win?
It would be either that...or Steiner...but, frankly, I would not touch the OWA..that way lies: losing all your dropships in space.
But as a Blood Spirit raised to believe in your superiority over freeborns would you believe the Dragoon reports of the AAA pilot's abilities or would you believe that they were exaggerated and that the superior bloodlines of your aerospace pilots would beat anything that the pathetic Outworlds Alliance freebirth pilots could throw at you?
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So... The same as any clan had to do.
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You mean the Blood Spirits stopping ALL military production for over a year (more likely more than a year)? ??? Not likely.
While this would be before the war with the Adders over the Burrocks, the simple fact is: stopping all production for a year
is going to be better to defend then leaving stuff back int he homeworlds. Remember, the Burrocks weren't honorable,
nor were many of the rivals of the Spirits. So, of course the Spirits, who were bitter and paranoid, would not want to leave anything behind.
Trusting in our own surperiority, we would take worlds, and be able to get factories set up in that time fairly quickly, without
taking much losses to the Inner Sphere primitives. At the same time, you know what? Only a fool would not listen to the intel
report(And..um..yeah, so..consider this is for an AU campaign..um..the Jags got replaced by the pre-Burrock Absorption Adders as
the ilKhan's clan..and we know the Adders believe the Dragoon report, unlike the Jags who didn't)
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While this would be before the war with the Adders over the Burrocks, the simple fact is: stopping all production for a year is going to be better to defend then leaving stuff back int he homeworlds. Remember, the Burrocks weren't honorable, nor were many of the rivals of the Spirits. So, of course the Spirits, who were bitter and paranoid, would not want to leave anything behind.
Wouldn't they be protected from predation by other Clans by the Grand Council like in the main timeline. If the Burrocks are willing to risk that what is to stop them from attacking the Spirits support convoys as they leave the Kerensky Cluster. In the main timeline, after the Burrock absorption, the Blood Spirits cut all ties with the other Clans EXCEPT their ties with the Diamond Sharks, Snow Ravens and their Strana Mechty enclave.
Trusting in our own surperiority, we would take worlds, and be able to get factories set up in that time fairly quickly, without taking much losses to the Inner Sphere primitives. At the same time, you know what? Only a fool would not listen to the intel report(And..um..yeah, so..consider this is for an AU campaign..um..the Jags got replaced by the pre-Burrock Absorption Adders as the ilKhan's clan..and we know the Adders believe the Dragoon report, unlike the Jags who didn't)
If the Blood Spirits trusted in their own superiority, wouldn't they trust that their skills could quickly bring them closer to Terra, allowing them to capture pre-existing manufacturing facilities that could be upgraded to Clan standards not to mention worlds far closer to Terra where they could eventually move their manufacturing facilities to rather than set up shop in the Periphery/Periphery border then later break it all down again and move the facilities closer to Terra. That is why I proposed the mobile factory. It can provide the needed war material and be broken down and moved far more easily than fixed factories. After all your forces wouldn't need that much war material since the you shouldn't be "much losses to the Inner Sphere primitives." ;)
Meanwhile, the manufacturing facilities back home would be secure from IS predation (and likely from Burrock predation as well unless they wish to risk an absorption/annihilation vote by the Grand Council and possibly executed by the Smoke Jaguars who are more than likely furious at being left out of the invasion ;)) and along with the Spirit training facilities could build the garrison clusters needed to secure all the new IS holdings.
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A mobile factory would be great but would we have the resources? I think it far better to capture planets with factiries. They're making SL tech by then. We could at least be making SL mechs and Vee's. We could win with our superior pilots.
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An interesting idea would be which Invasion Corridor would they opt for? I kind of see them leapfrogging the other Clans and striking ai the very edge of the Combine, maybe even the Outworlds Alliance. The other Clans might see it as hitting a Periphery Realm, but to the Spirits its an easy target with no hope of resupply or reinforcements. Once they take that small nation they can turn it into there own little realm and then drive towards Terra from there. everyone else is up fighting the other Invasion Corridors.
WHAT?!?!
The Sacred and Holy Land of the Federated Suns being soiled by a Clan Invasion?!
TPTB would never condone such heresy!
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WHAT?!?!
The Sacred and Holy Land of the Federated Suns being soiled by a Clan Invasion?!
TPTB would never condone such heresy!
No, just the Capellans and Dracs are allowed to eviscerate the FedSuns. Because that's so much better
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WHAT?!?!
The Sacred and Holy Land of the Federated Suns being soiled by a Clan Invasion?!
TPTB would never condone such heresy!
Oh good. So the Raven invasion is just a mistake that slipped in and isn't really happening. ;)
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Oh good. So the Raven invasion is just a mistake that slipped in and isn't really happening. ;)
If that's what you want to call an invasion. ;)
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If that's what you want to call an invasion. ;)
What invasion? You heard Top Sergeant! TPTB would never allow such a travesty.
In a couple months we are all going to find out that the entire Dark Age never happened and that it was all a nightmare that Stone dreamt while in cold storage.
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What invasion? You heard Top Sergeant! TPTB would never allow such a travesty.
In a couple months we are all going to find out that the entire Dark Age never happened and that it was all a nightmare that Stone dreamt while in cold storage.
*Looks at the histories of the CC, LC/LA, and DC*
Yeah, I'm sticking with my post. ;)
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WHAT?!?!
The Sacred and Holy Land of the Federated Suns being soiled by a Clan Invasion?!
TPTB would never condone such heresy!
Being curbstomped by the Dracs and Cappies, though, they will happily allow
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*Looks at the histories of the CC, LC/LA, and DC*
Yeah, I'm sticking with my post. ;)
Funny, lot's of those invasions happened before Catalyst got control of Battletech. During the Jihad and Dark Ages I would say two of those three have done very well for themselves.
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Can we save the Spheroid talk for the appropriate thread? The FedCom's bruised ego has NOTHING on Clan Blood Spirit.
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Can we save the Spheroid talk for the appropriate thread? The FedCom's bruised ego has NOTHING on Clan Blood Spirit.
How about the DC and CC bruised ego's? But yes, it's off-topic, sorry about that.
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How about the DC and CC bruised ego's? But yes, it's off-topic, sorry about that.
When the FedSuns makes a point to exterminate every living member of the DracCom or the CapCon, we can talk. ;)
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When the FedSuns makes a point to exterminate every living member of the DracCom or the CapCon, we can talk. ;)
Actually, that was my point.
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Actually, that was my point.
Goes both ways, too. Even the CapCon hasn't suffered the sort of losses that the Blood Spirits have. Consistently throughout their existence, they've spiraled towards oblivion, and any "bounce back" they've ever experienced was merely the calm before the storm. Part of why the WoR story didn't sit well with me...it was predictable in that the Spirits would meet their end, and I'm not overly fond of permanent faction destruction, even for shock value. Would've been easy to just have the Colleen system go undiscovered and the Spirits go silent, and leave it at that. Would've been much more poetically fitting.
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To get back somewhat on topic I could also see the Blood Spirits leapfrogging down the other side of the FedCom and seizing a world and not telling any other Clan where they are going. Done right it would be done in two waves, an initial wave with warship support to find and take a Periphery World, say New St. Andrews for arguments sake and to hold it and set up initial conquest and landings. Once completed the Blood Spirits send back the bulk of the jumpships and possibly a warship or two back to York. They load up the reminder of the Clan, down to the last thing that can be unbolted from the ground and head back to the Inner Sphere taking a more indirect route to avoid detection. They leave nothing behind but empty buildings and possibly a unit on Strana Mechty with orders to stall any questions for as long as possible. At this point the Spirits rebuild on New St. Andrews, build new production lines, and even possibly raid for supplies using second line gear the surrounding Periphery States. While the Clans are invading the one half of the Inner Sphere the Blood Spirits are entrenching and building up a new Clan Homeworld in the Periphery until they feel they are ready to expand from there. I could see in a decade, maybe two seizing nearby worlds and watching to see what the Clans as a whole are up to.
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Wouldn't they effectively be self-abjuring themselves in the process? Pressured by the Clan Burrock (whose misdeeds haven't been revealed yet), the Grand Council would call for their annihilation. After all given the timing they could only be heading for the Inner Sphere and the Burrocks would make them look worse than they what they had actually planned.
Not to mention that the Spirits were among those who believed that the Clans would have no trouble conquering the Inner Sphere and would have to expect to encounter their former Clansmen sooner rather than later.
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Why would the other Clans care what the Blood Spirits do at that point? Most of the other Clans had pretty much forgotten about them at that time.
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Why would the other Clans care what the Blood Spirits do at that point? Most of the other Clans had pretty much forgotten about them at that time.
Its one thing to limit one's involvement in inter-Clan relations, its another thing entirely to break ranks with the rest of the Clans and to defy the Grand Council. With the invasion taking precedence, the Burrocks may not be able to persuade them to vote for annihilation but abjuration absolutely.
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Can we save the Spheroid talk for the appropriate thread? The FedCom's bruised ego has NOTHING on Clan Blood Spirit.
The Blood Spirits were doomed as soon as FM: Crusaders came to print just like two of the other Clans in that book, Ice Hellion and Fire Mandrill.
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Why not hit the old rimworlds republic? There's bound to be undiscovered( by the IS powers ) Brian caches, hidden factories and castle Brian's that Kerensky left behind.
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A clan has the right to settle where they will as long as the Clan has the strength to hold it. And it could be years before anyone even noticed they were gone honestly as they kept themselves so isolated at this point. The only ones who might notice are the Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens and that is very unlikely. They could leave a caretaker Galaxy on York to keep up appearances and as a holding though. And I used New St. Andrews as an example, but yes there are many worlds they could have taken, heck they could have taken Hunters Paradise except its a sucky world.
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A clan has the right to settle where they will as long as the Clan has the strength to hold it.
Unless the Grand Council has ruled that only those who have won the right to go there can send their forces in.
And it could be years before anyone even noticed they were gone honestly as they kept themselves so isolated at this point. The only ones who might notice are the Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens and that is very unlikely. They could leave a caretaker Galaxy on York to keep up appearances and as a holding though.
That would mean leaving their Khans and the Blood Guard Keshik (the only ones authorized to have contact with outsiders) behind as well as any industries that provide goods that the Spirits trade with the Sharks, Ravens and/or Fire Mandrills.
And I used New St. Andrews as an example, but yes there are many worlds they could have taken, heck they could have taken Hunters Paradise except its a sucky world.
Now if they had gone after Nueva Castile or the Hansa, I doubt anybody but the Burrocks would complain. The Spirits could always claim that they were acting in support of the Invasion (securing the rear) while staying well away from the Inner Sphere.
I would imagine one galaxy seizing Nueva Castile and 2-3 going after the Hansa. Seeing as they had't wasted their secret galaxies interfering in the Burrock Absorption yet, they could use those as well as a few "decommissioned" publicly known clusters without anybody being the wiser. Even the Burrocks who are most likely keeping a close eye on the Blood Spirits (for any opening they could exploit) aren't going to try and track units that they don't even know exist.
Given that those worlds have no contact with the Clans and everybody being focused on the Invasion, the Blood Spirits would likely have years before the other Clans realized what they had done. Years that they could use to secure and build up the industrial and military strength in their new holdings. It would also allow them to determine which worlds are the most valuable
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The Blood Spirits were doomed as soon as FM: Crusaders came to print just like two of the other Clans in that book, Ice Hellion and Fire Mandrill.
This idea, looking back, seems very accurate. Those three clans seem set up simply as filler or to be killed later. I have a feeling FASA was toying with offing most of the smaller role clans eventually anyway.
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This idea, looking back, seems very accurate. Those three clans seem set up simply as filler or to be killed later. I have a feeling FASA was toying with offing most of the smaller role clans eventually anyway.
Since many of the storylines are determined years in advance that is more than likely true. They probably hadn't decided exactly how or when to permanently off any faction though. The author of WoR has stated in the forums that he was pretty much given a free hand in writing the WoR with few restrictions.
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Along the periphery border of the 'Outback' might be even better than St Andrews. The Outback isn't rigorously patrolled these days IIRC. Also, the Tauran Concordat would likely be less of a problem than the Marian Hegemony (as the Hegemony seems more aggressive to me).
Although with the Lyrans being chopped up, and the FWL balkanized, maybe St Andrews is a better choice, as Stormlion suggested. The FedSuns is largely still intact, even with all the Capellan gains.
What do y'all think?
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Along the periphery border of the 'Outback' might be even better than St Andrews. The Outback isn't rigorously patrolled these days IIRC. Also, the Tauran Concordat would likely be less of a problem than the Marian Hegemony (as the Hegemony seems more aggressive to me).
Although with the Lyrans being chopped up, and the FWL balkanized, maybe St Andrews is a better choice, as at least the FedSuns is largely still intact, even with all the Capellan gains.
What do y'all think?
While we were talking around the Clan invasion era not the Dark Age. How do you figure that the Taurian Concordat wouldn't be as big a problem? Even after losing more than half their worlds to the Calderon Protectorate, declarations of independence and the FedSuns they were still acting aggressive towards their enemies. Not to mention that they have proven themselves to be more than willing to deploy the nuclear arsenal. Have the Marians ever utilized a WMD?
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While we were talking around the Clan invasion era not the Dark Age.
Ah, I misunderstood the era when you brought up the Clan Raven invasion of the FedSuns worlds. :-[
I'll just carry on with Stormlion's scenario then. :)
As for your follow on question, the Taurans, regardless of how aggressive they might get, have never seemed especially competent at it, at least not in the Fourth Succession War and later eras. I have no idea how good they were prior to that.
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As for your follow on question, the Taurans, regardless of how aggressive they might get, have never seemed especially competent at it, at least not in the Fourth Succession War and later eras. I have no idea how good they were prior to that.
The civilians caught in the cross-fire would probably disagree. ;) Compared to the Taurians, the Hegemony is far more cautious as to when they chose to unleash their military. They actually consider who they might offend and what they might do in retaliation.
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New St. Andrews was an example but in hindsight we know there are plenty of 'lost' Periphery Worlds. Heck, look at a old map of the Outworlds Alliance and a more current one. The current OA is half the size and many worlds are long abandonded even by the dark age. The Blood Spirits could probably settle any Periphery World and stand a very good chance of not being discovered for decades if not centuries.
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New St. Andrews was an example but in hindsight we know there are plenty of 'lost' Periphery Worlds. Heck, look at a old map of the Outworlds Alliance and a more current one. The current OA is half the size and many worlds are long abandonded even by the dark age. The Blood Spirits could probably settle any Periphery World and stand a very good chance of not being discovered for decades if not centuries.
I really like this idea.
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I always thought the RWR area would be pretty good. Somewhere around the 10 or 11 o'clock if you're looking at the IS as a clock. There aren't many Periphery states out in that direction, and you probably have extensive knowledge of the systems. You also run the chance of picking up some infrastructure and populations, so you may not have to start from scratch. Its also sort of a "No man's land" after Amaris and the LC taking what it could.
It always seemed like a good place for the Clans to set up pre-REVIVAL so they could build factories and training bases so they didn't have a year long supply chain, but that was probably too forward thinking for the Clans as they were portrayed in 3050.
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I suggested the old RWR a few replies ago too.
As for the MH, I feel pretty confident to reply about that. In this era, clan invasion about 51-52, they were still pirates at this point. The only reason they were cautious about who they attacked at this time is because they didn't want the big boys of the FWL to come down on them. Once Julian took over everything changed.
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I wouldn't recommend former RWR worlds for a few reasons, still very close to Invasion Zones, the worlds are all known to the Clans and I do bet they eventually sent out jumpships to survey them, and picking a world with a population and infrastructure and a defense will cause a issue the Invading Clans suffered for years after the fact, resistance. It is overcome easily but could cause issues down the road. One of the reasons I picked New St. Andrews was the distance from the occupation zones themselves. Longer trip for the Clan, but security wise it makes sense. Look what happened with Colleen. It was just outside "Clan" Space but was eventually found. And honestly a world a good distance from the Occupation Zones with several Galaxy's of Defenders that are minding there own business would be left alone by the FWL or the FedCom/LA as to tough to crack and not worth the effort.
I would go with this scenario:
A small Garrison maintained on Strana Mechty-Blood Guard Keshik and have them rotate with a unit from York
York-One Galaxy to maintain the Clans possession of the world with a small amount of civilian castes and some light infrastructure. Possibly one warship in orbit.
Periphery World-Whatever is left over which should be around six Galaxy's or more and a few warships.
After a decade-send out units to explore close by worlds in the Periphery and settle them with Blood Spirit troops and Civilian castes, eventually forming a Blood Spirit state, all sending resources to the Periphery Capitol and then that world sending goods to York to be traded through the merchant caste to the rest of the Homeworlds. The Clans will think primarily that things just haven't changed unless they raid York itself and the sham could be perpetuated by judicious use of low bidding. The Clan Council itself would never even notice the Blood Spirits were gone this way and even if they did they could easily explain there troops were now garrisoning multiple colony worlds in the deep periphery-which is actually the truth.
The Blood Spirits gain strength this way, a secure location, and can parlay that position into a new invasion corridor at any time they desire and come in from a undefended angle and most importantly they gain time.
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If nothing else, your scenario would help push back the Cylons ::)
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Wasn't that the Wolverines job? Oh. Wait that was holding back aliens.
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And don't forget the Spirit's alliance with the Kiingons.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/TopSergeant/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/CBS1.jpg) (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/TopSergeant/media/Miniatures/Battletech/Clan%20Blood%20Spirit/CBS1.jpg.html)
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...there goes the neighborhood.
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The neighborhood already sucked with Burrocks and Adders living in it.
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You know, Stormlion, that is an interesting theoretical approach. In the Au scenario my group has toyed with..
The Adders take the place of the Jaguars, and go 'Wait..you know..we go with 5s..why are we doing 4 invading
clans?" and add the Spirits as the 5th Clan. The Adders actually read the Dragoon Intel and believed it(because,
they are the practical clan, and it is impractical to send an intelligence mission in and ignore them), and so make
believing that report and using it mandatory. This leads to a conclusion that a standard invasion cannot be
achieved. The Falcons and Bears don't want to hear this argument, but the wolves and spirits listen to the
arguments. They continue with the waves of the invasion as originally planned, but the Spirits, Wolves, and
Adders bring more civilians, and begin setting up manufacturing, etc behind the lines, AND, of course, they
bring civilians, who can relate to explain things to the civilians of the worlds they are conquering.
This invasion is done with the actual belief that: the Inner Sphere is going to do something to stop it. So, the
idea is to make sure that there is something set up to build up industry and recruit free-born warriors for garrison
and, maybe even, front line combat/cannon fodder. Now, we also get the reserve Clans brought in, and Snow
Raven is added as a reserve Clan, and comes in through the Spirit corridor, Hell's Horses are added to the Wolf Corridor,
Vipers are put with the Adders, Nova Cats to the Falcons, and the Bears get the Diamond Sharks.
Of course, the Adders are smarter then the Jaguars, and so their ilKhan is not in a ship that is ever in a position that
can be rammed by an Rasalhague fighter. However, since this is a bit of a change, and is not trying to sabotage the
invasion, instead of sending the Falcons against people who have learned to fight against mobile heavies and slow,
heavily armed lights, the Falcons are sent against Kurita, who uses a similar strategy. The Spirits get the canon Falcon
Corridor, and the Adders take the far right, and the wolves and bears get flipped, because the Wolves, as the Clan of
Kerensky, should have the center of the Invasion. So, this means the Bears get Phelan, and the Bears likely lose a Khan.
Tukayyid happens, but, unlike in canon, this time, the knowledge that the Invasion was going to fail is spread. This is
spun by Ulric and the Adder ilKhan as a first step, that they need the truce to be able to make use of the vastly superior
resources of the Inner Sphere to develop the resources needed to supply the invasion of the Inner Sphere properly.
During this time, the Adders also begin the orders to prepare the remaining 7 Home World Clans for taking part in the
renewed invasion in 15 years. Mandrils, Coyotes, Burrock, Scorpions, Cobras, Hellions, and Jaguars are planned, and
the Scorpions are assigned finding worlds off of the Outback region of the Fed Suns to secure as staging areas, and then,
the Clans send these clans there.
Of course, the truce was a lie, and the Clans are told this. The home worlds Clans are given time to build up forces,
maybe a 5-8 years, and then, when the time comes, the new invasion roars across the Truce line. The Inner Sphere
rushes forces to engage the renewed invasion, where, now, Zel has been dropped, and the warships are being used
since the IS now has its own warships. As the IS scrambles, and gets into position, the order goes to all the others
to drive in from the side. New Avalon gets hit, because the IS was not prepared for an invasion from that direction, and
cannot move troops into position to defend against the assault on, effectively, 2 fronts. The Davion section of the FedCom
crumbles, and the invasions drive across the inner Sphere. Terra is actually ignored for now. It is important, sure, but
for now, cutting off the supply lines is the most important thing. Seven Clans cutting through Davion and the FWL, and then
turning NORTH to hit the Combine and Steiner from the back..Not honorable, but, successful. From this point, the remaining
might of all the Clans focuses on Terra. Whoever is the ilKhan at the time likely will get the credit for taking Terra, and, after
the southward drive to take the CapCon, and souther sides of the FWL and Davion, the Clans will be able to say they
re-established the Star League....
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Only real issue I see in all the scenario's was that the Spirits didn't even trial seriously for a spot in the Invasion knowing the lacked the troops or resources to take part. But here is a scenario based on that.
Same original Invading Clans with the original Back up Clans but what if the Blood Spirits offered themselves up as garrison troops for the Periphery Holdings of one or more of the Invading Clans. In other words they garrison the Exodus Road so they can free up troops and ships for the Invasion itself. Not all Clans would want that but I could see the Ghost Bears and the Wolves seeing the potential of freeing up troops for the front lines and the Falcons might be too prideful though but then again they did borrow warships for the Invasion so maybe not. I don't see the Jaguars agreeing though as being far too full of pride to agree. Essentially by doing this at least one Galaxy from each Invading Clan who were garrisoning the Exodus Road could be freed up. An added bonus would be the Spirits just might fall under the same protection the Invading Clans had for there holdings in the Homeworlds as there involved in the Invasion support if not the Invasion itself. An added advantage is while all that is going on the Spirits could scout out Periphery worlds for there own use and ones that would be 'off the books' and unknown to the Homeworld Clans. And when or if a Invading Clan falls or fails the Blood Spirits could potentially inherit those Exodus Road Garrison Worlds. Its a good bet the Jaguars and the Steel Vipers left many of there Exodus Road garrisons behind when they retreated from the Inner Sphere, why not have the Blood Spirits inherit those?
I could see other Clans jumping on the band wagon as well if the Invading Clans accepted with the Ice Hellions, Hell's Horses, Star Adders or Burrocks attempting to gain garrison spots along the Exodus Road as well because they wouldn't want to be left out.
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Only real issue I see in all the scenario's was that the Spirits didn't even trial seriously for a spot in the Invasion knowing the lacked the troops or resources to take part.
I don't believe it is ever stated when they dropped out or were forced out of contention for an invasion corridor or how hard they tried to win a slot. After all the deal with the Snow Raven was to help increase their small Touman and make it possible to participate in the invasion.
But here is a scenario based on that.
Same original Invading Clans with the original Back up Clans but what if the Blood Spirits offered themselves up as garrison troops for the Periphery Holdings of one or more of the Invading Clans. In other words they garrison the Exodus Road so they can free up troops and ships for the Invasion itself. Not all Clans would want that but I could see the Ghost Bears and the Wolves seeing the potential of freeing up troops for the front lines and the Falcons might be too prideful though but then again they did borrow warships for the Invasion so maybe not. I don't see the Jaguars agreeing though as being far too full of pride to agree. Essentially by doing this at least one Galaxy from each Invading Clan who were garrisoning the Exodus Road could be freed up.
Were those garrison forces even considered part of the invasion bid? Doubtful. They were probably considered in the same category as the PGCs - not part of the official bid. In any case, none of the Clans would have been willing to show that much weakness that they needed help protecting their supply lines especially from the Blood Spirits. It was hard enough for the Ghost Bears to admit that they need help from the Vipers.
An added bonus would be the Spirits just might fall under the same protection the Invading Clans had for there holdings in the Homeworlds as there involved in the Invasion support if not the Invasion itself.
The ilKhan would likely deny them permission on the basis that they didn't earn that right. The only ones to possibly have earned that right would be the Vipers and the Sharks.
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Its mentioned in one of the sourcebooks, can't remember which one but I do remember reading it somewhere.
Why would the Ghost Bears need help from the Vipers? They didn't share an invasion corridor with them. And from I've read those Exodus Road garrisons were treated like Homeworld holdings, generally left alone due to the Clans purpose of being part of the invasion. The Clans bid there entire strength to take the Inner Sphere, anything left behind was done so more for safety than anything else. Next issue would be the ilKhan denying the Spirits the right to garrison for a Invading Clan, but that would be a deal made between two Clans more than anything else so your probably right they probably wouldn't gain any real safety other than the worlds there defending being another Clans holding and not the Blood Spirits. Essentially the Spirits are acting as mercenary's to free up troops for front line duty. Those garrison posts were considered part of the Invasion for without them there was no source of resupply of troops or materials. Would Clan Star Adder raid a Clan Wolf Exodus Road Garrison? No, the Wolves are part of the Invasion, but the Wolves do put small garrisons there more for shows sake than anything else. Now I do believe the Invading Clans could raid each other, but a Homeworld Clan could not.
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I don't believe it is ever stated when they dropped out or were forced out of contention for an invasion corridor or how hard they tried to win a slot. After all the deal with the Snow Raven was to help increase their small Touman and make it possible to participate in the invasion.
Field Manual: Crusader Clans, page 19. Reads: "As the Grand Council will remember, though the Blood Spirits entered into the bidding to decide which Clans would return to the cradle of humanity from which we departed centuries ago, we did not big low enough and so were the only Crusader Clan to fall out of running before actual fighting took place." It goes on to describe that this was intentional because the Spirits didn't believe the time was right for an invasion despite being rampant Crusaders.
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Why would the Ghost Bears need help from the Vipers? They didn't share an invasion corridor with them.
"Swallowing his pride, Khan Jorgensson contracted the reserve Clan, the hated Steel Vipers, to garrison several key Ghost Bear-occupied worlds. Weak garrisons were in large part responsible for the stalled early waves, and the new Khan was determined not to repeat the mistakes of his predecessors." (WC, p81)
And from I've read those Exodus Road garrisons were treated like Homeworld holdings, generally left alone due to the Clans purpose of being part of the invasion.
Those garrison posts were considered part of the Invasion for without them there was no source of resupply of troops or materials.
Uhm, you might want to decide whether you consider them part of the Homeworld holdings or part of the Invasion before you try to lay out your argument.
The Clans bid there entire strength to take the Inner Sphere, anything left behind was done so more for safety than anything else.
Actually they didn't. The Invading Clans had to reduce the forces bid in order to win a slot. Not included were large numbers of second-line Clusters as well as varying numbers of front-line Clusters. For example, it is clear that the Ghost Bears didn't include their front-line Rho Galaxy as part of their bid while the Falcons left behind about a Galaxy's worth of front-line Clusters split between Sigma and Zeta Galaxies.
Next issue would be the ilKhan denying the Spirits the right to garrison for a Invading Clan, but that would be a deal made between two Clans more than anything else so your probably right they probably wouldn't gain any real safety other than the worlds there defending being another Clans holding and not the Blood Spirits.
And would encourage the Burrocks to renew their pressure on the Spirits due to their apparently diminished homeworld defenses (since the Spirits hadn't revealed the new galaxies that they gained from their Snow Raven deal yet).
Essentially the Spirits are acting as mercenary's to free up troops for front line duty. Would Clan Star Adder raid a Clan Wolf Exodus Road Garrison? No, the Wolves are part of the Invasion, but the Wolves do put small garrisons there more for shows sake than anything else. Now I do believe the Invading Clans could raid each other, but a Homeworld Clan could not.
If you have it check the Explorer Corps sourcebook out. The primary threat to their supply lines in the deep periphery were the other Clans as the DCMS avoided raiding too deep into the Periphery so as to avoid drawing attention to Explorer Corps operations.
Another factor previously unmentioned is that, after the Raven deal, the Spirits lacked the WarShip to protect one supply let alone more than one AND leave sufficient WarShips available to protect York. During the invasion, they had what? A single star of WarShips? Nowhere near enough to protect (and patrol) the supply lines and provide adequate escort to convoys.
Finally this would run counter to the isolationist policies which limited contact with other Clans to the Blood Guard Keshik and the ilChis. It was hard enough for the Spirits to relax this restriction towards their closest allies, the Fire Mandrills, relaxing it to an Invading Clan would likely never happen.
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Deciding to paint up Elementals for my Blood Guard Keshik, but did they even have Elementals. Anybody know?
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Deciding to paint up Elementals for my Blood Guard Keshik, but did they even have Elementals. Anybody know?
It's kind of an open question. "No," because the unit description says it consists entirely of heavy and assault 'Mechs. "Yes," because the Clan never, never, ever deviates from the 3-1-1 Cluster composition scheme. Personally, I'm on the "Yes" side.
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It's kind of an open question. "No," because the unit description says it consists entirely of heavy and assault 'Mechs. "Yes," because the Clan never, never, ever deviates from the 3-1-1 Cluster composition scheme. Personally, I'm on the "Yes" side.
I agree with The Eagle.
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I agree with Top.
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Agreed with the "yes". Heavy and assault 'Mechs supported by heavy and assault Vees and Elementals.
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Allright I'm going to go with painting the Elementals up in Blood Guard Keshik colors. Vee's are not part of my Spirit forces though. I use Morrigu's for that. I have five painted up already and another five awaiting assembly and paint. I would rather the Elementals cling to Omnimech's anyway. Gets them into the fight faster and they can serve...other purposes as well.
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Living armor? ;D
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Living armor? ;D
How did you guess? ;)
Got to keep my rare-for-the-Blood Spirits Omnimechs alive somehow!
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How did you guess? ;)
Got to keep my rare-for-the-Blood Spirits Omnimechs alive somehow!
"Clan Blood Spirit: Our Elementals are disposable. Your Omnimech isn't!"
A tagline by Khan Hubert Farnesworth, clearly the best Khan the Blood Spirits ever had...in an alternate universe. Reigned from the bridge of the CBS Planet Express Ship.
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How did you guess? ;)
Got to keep my rare-for-the-Blood Spirits Omnimechs alive somehow!
Life is cheap, battlemechs aren't... Besides, we have 30 more batches of elementals cooking right now.
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I kind of like to think there chained to the mechs torso's and arms before they set out. Or maybe there Star Adder Elementals that are chained to the Mechs Torso's or arms before they set out.
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Nice. Adder or burrock.
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Its what the Blood Spirits do to Burrocks or Adders who request Bondsref. They even give them Elemental Suits and a ride back to there lines.
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Its what the Blood Spirits do to Burrocks or Adders who request Bondsref. They even give them Elemental Suits and a ride back to there lines.
Now, now...there is no canon reference to the Spirits being that vicious. (Now, true, the character Mara liked to encase Adder
pilots in quick drying ferrocrete, and would shoot down ejecting pilots...but she also had the EI implants so long, since 3062,
that she was fairly psychotic...and she actually has Bad Reputation and Blood Mark on her character sheet in AToW rules)
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I know, but its a dream I have, and of course its a nightmare for others.
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I know, but its a dream I have, and of course its a nightmare for others.
Heh..my players kind of...felt disturbed as they watched me play out Mara's descent into madness.
One of them got to see why she was put back on the front lines after trying to make her a protomech
trainer. (She makes them work as a team..someone messed up in training she killed him, no hesitation,
as an illustration to the rest of pilots)
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Well, as far as I'm concerned that's some good motivation... The killings of trainees will continue until moraleimproves...
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Trainee training has really dropped in quality since they disallowed the use of the lash.
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In all fairness, it's not unexpected in our Clan. Our training is the most lethal of all as it is, so this comes as absolutely no surprise.
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Training should be hard, train right and the real thing is easy. But one thing Blood Spirits are is motivated. So the lash or even execution for failure is quite possibly something they might do to motivate each other. Man all this talk make me miss the old Blood Spirit Campaign from two years back. I miss Star Commander Ford Campbell and the fun he had in his Dire Wolf killing Star Adders.
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Here is a question to get some discussion going. What if (you gotta love what ifs.) the Blood Spirits, not the Star Adders had won the right to absorb the Burrocks? Would the Blood Spirits have actually been up for it? There forces where mostly second line mechs, maybe six warships. The Burrocks were somewhat larger than that and I think may have had more warships and unlike the war with the Adders the Burrocks would probably have fought tooth and nail against the Spirits uinlike the more civil absorbtion against the Adders. What do you all think?
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Well on one hand the Blood Spirits would have surprised the Burrocks by deploying several Galaxies that nobody knew about but that advantage would have been somewhat diluted by the widespread deployed of armored vehicles even among the Spirits' front-line units. On the other hand the Burrocks likely deployed more aerospace fighters than the Spirits and they would be defending their home turf. Both sides would be aware that it wouldn't be a Trial of Absorption but rather a Trial of Annihilation and would fight accordingly - no mercy, no surrender.
It would be a very close call to see who would win and which would largely depend upon how the Spirits deployed their forces. For example, attacking all Burrock holdings at once would likely give the Burrocks an added advantage especially in the approach to the planet due to the Spirits' limited aerospace forces being stretched thin. If the Spirits won, they would likely have to face a Trial of Absorption/Annihilation of their own. Either because of combat losses leaving them open to Absorption or because they wiped out the entire Clan Burrock including the lower castes (It was a Trial of Absorption not a Trial of Annihilation).
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No matter who won, it would be a drawn-out and bloody affair. This was an intense hatred between two Clans, and in a situation where one was fightign for its existance, it's not likey that either would hold back.
In the advent that the Blood Spirits had won, I imagine that the result would have been akin to the Mongoose absobtion by the Jaguars. The Burrocks would be dead, and the Spirits wouldn't have actually gained terribly much from them. Their warriors would be all dead (one way or another) and their bloodlines discontinued.
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I'd almost accept the BS fate more if that had happened ...
Or the Clan Council could have given the Spirits a few years of favorable ... wait, no. They'd be absorbed by another clan, unless one of them made some favorable deals to support them (Mandrills, Sharks, possibly Cobras spurning the Burrocks).
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Of course, if such had happened, it probably would've rewritten the Spirit's Touman so them taking on and absorbing/annihilating a Clan would've been more likely.
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No matter who won, it would be a drawn-out and bloody affair. This was an intense hatred between two Clans, and in a situation where one was fightign for its existance, it's not likey that either would hold back.
Exactly.
In the advent that the Blood Spirits had won, I imagine that the result would have been akin to the Mongoose absobtion by the Jaguars. The Burrocks would be dead, and the Spirits wouldn't have actually gained terribly much from them. Their warriors would be all dead (one way or another) and their bloodlines discontinued.
And don't forget the post-trial losses that the Blood Spirits would invariably sustain as other Clans moved to take advantage of the Spirits' weakened state and seize some of the Burrocks' former holdings for themselves.
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So most people think that no matter who wins the absorption trial, the winner will lose in the short run as other Clans take advantage. The Burrocks will have no friends left and the other Clans will jump on the Blood Spirits because of there weakened state.
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I'm sure the Spirits would be able to leverage former Burrock enclaves, resources, etc., in exchange for political protection (i.e. votes) from allies. The idea that a victory by one over the other spelling an almost certain Absorption for the winner is absurd. The Jaguars managed to do well enough after the beating they took during the Mongoose Absorption, materially and politically.
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So most people think that no matter who wins the absorption trial, the winner will lose in the short run as other Clans take advantage. The Burrocks will have no friends left and the other Clans will jump on the Blood Spirits because of there weakened state.
Pretty much. The Burrocks would likely get it worse for their dezgra activities with the Dark Caste and lack of allies, but the Blood Spirits could potentially face a Trial of Absorption themselves if they took too many losses both during the trial and after. The Fire Mandrills would especially be very keen on moving against the Burrocks as the Burrocks had previously pushed for their Absorption. While several Clans wouldn't get involved regardless of who won (the Ghost Bears were abandoning most of their HW holdings during their move to the IS while the Diamond Sharks and the Ravens were themselves busy expanding their IS operations), in all likelihood fewer Clans would have moved in force against the Spirits. For example, the Fire Mandrills would have likely gained territory without a fight either as a gift or in a trade between the Spirits and Mandrills.
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I'm sure the Spirits would be able to leverage former Burrock enclaves, resources, etc., in exchange for political protection (i.e. votes) from allies.
While it may have been able to protect them from an official Trial of Absorption by the Grand Council, at least temporarily, it wouldn't have protected them from Clans seeking to increase their holdings at the expense of the Spirits.
The idea that a victory by one over the other spelling an almost certain Absorption for the winner is absurd. The Jaguars managed to do well enough after the beating they took during the Mongoose Absorption, materially and politically.
There would be significant differences between the Mongoose Absorption and the theoretical Burrock Absorption by the Spirits. In the Mongoose Absorption, the Smoke Jaguars faced a significantly depleted Mongoose Touman whereas the Spirits would have faced a Burrock Touman that was near full strength. Clan Smoke Jaguar initiated their Absorption just as a massive Star Adder assault was ending. The Jaguars actually actually complained to the Grand Council that the Adders "deprived them of their full measure of victory by weakening the Jaguars' opponent before battle could be truly joined" (FMCC, p113). Even with their secret Galaxies (formed from the deal with the Ravens), the Spirits would have been hard-pressed to defeat Clan Burrock.
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I really think that the Adders could very well have negotiated some sort of arrangement with the Spirits, had the
Spirits reaction not to have been "How dare you! They were our enemies! It is our right!" then attacked. I believe
the actual Council vote was done in Grave Covenant? And that is very much how the Spirits reacted. If they had
been willing to engage in diplomatic talks, things might have gone very different.
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With our Khan there was no negotiations.
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With our Khan there was no negotiations.
Yes, hence why, when looked at objectively, our Khan led us down the road to our own destruction.
And we just blindly followed her because she made us feel good about it..
Of course, I also think that the Stone Lions arrival at the Coleen System, and the timing of it, is
very much why we refused to trade with them. Seriously, imagien this: You have a Khan trying
to figure out how to recover from a MASSIVE natural disaster, moving people from one world
to another when he is still in the haggard stages of dealing with this disaster. And that is when
the Lions show up and ask to start trade negotiations, when the Spirits probably aren't even
sure what they really had at the time? What if the Lions, instead of trying to start trade negotiations
had, instead, offered emergency relief supplies and to help in the evacuations of personnel and
materiel? Would that have changed things? What if the Khan, instead of giving a belligerent "no"
had said "I would love to, but, at the moment, we are dealing with an planetary emergency and
have to put our focus on that. We would welcome any aid you can give us, and will discuss trade
agreements after we have have a solid accounting of what we have left." ?
There are so many "What if's?" with the Blood Spirits, though. Ultimately, though, the death of the
Spirits can be laid at the feet of Karianna Schmitt and her leadership during the Burrock Absorption.
That is the point where our death was just a matter of time, and we didn't even know it..
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The Spirits believed they were in the right, they were the chosen Clan. And while tthe smallest there skills made them a match for bigger, stronger Clans. The very idea a Khan could be wrong or even challenged probably never even crossed any of the warriors minds. I am only suprised that they did as well as they did in the long run and if you really think about it they probably could have survived even longer if the Adders hadn't bombarded York or they hadn't lost as much fighting the Steel Vipers during the WoR (three Galaxys at one point annihilated, at least the Adders sometimes used honorable combat) or tried to push ahead at the end of the Reavings in a attempt to prove themselves. I honestly think they were in better shape than the Stone Lions at the end of the WoR.
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What is interesting is that the Adders initially weren't even involved in the fighting on Honor or Haven. It was a Stone Lion JumpShip that first discovered the colonies but the Cobras were the first to seize territory (on Honor before the disaster).
However, I don't recall the Stone Lions or the Coyotes ever indicating that they were interested in establishing trade ties with the Spirits. Where is this stated? Both always appeared set on seizing portions of the bountiful planets for themselves. Of course with the disaster devastating Honor, they were forced to focus their efforts on Haven instead of splitting their forces and trialing for holdings on both planets.
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They refused to do any trade before they found Honor and Haven, the Blood Spirits essentially retreated out of the Homeworlds and pulled the rug out over them. Then let there Ambassadors make cryptic remarks on Strana Mechty while refusing to answer any questions directly about trade, the clans current location, or what they looked like inside there encounter suits.
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It is rather unbelievable that after how involved they were in the Wars of Reaving that the only HW holding they had to show for their efforts was their Strana Mechty enclave. ??? Even if they didn't have any major enclave with huge factories churning out 'Mechs by the lot, they should have been able to seize and retain a couple minor holdings that wouldn't have interested the Adders.
Unfortunately for the Blood Spirits the Khans that followed Karianna Schmitt weren't much better at decision-making if anything they were worse. Even when she made her biggest mistake to interfere with the Burrock Absorption, something inside her told her to keep a reserve just in case her plan failed. Their participation in the Viper Absorption was a foolish attempt to make themselves seem stronger than they actually were and it backfired big time costing them large numbers of irreplaceable men and machines.
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I think staying out of the Viper absorption would have made them the next target. The foolish part was trying to lead from the front. They should have moved in after other Clans had gone in and swept up behind them.
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I think staying out of the Viper absorption would have made them the next target.
They would probably have been the next target regardless whether through a Grand Council endorsed Trial of Absorption/Annihilation or because the Adders were determined to wipe them out. After all they were high on the Adders to do list. Only the stupidity of the Scorpions' scientist caste to engage in unauthorized eugenics experiments so soon after the Society's rebellion pushed them ahead of the Spirits.
The foolish part was trying to lead from the front. They should have moved in after other Clans had gone in and swept up behind them.
That undoubtedly made a bad situation worse especially since they were deploying the best units they had remaining as did deploying troops to both Circe and New Kent.
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OK, back in September I posted I was going to paint up some Blood Spirit Elementals. So I went to the IWM site last month and ordered some. Seemed odd that they were so cheap but I wasn't really paying attention at the time. Appaerantly I was on the Online exclusives page. Got them last week and looked at them and noticed they had "Dynamic poses" as it were. I love these though, except the two that are jumping or missing there launchers. On that front I have decided to order some more of these. So I can have basic Elementals on the base for my Blood Guard Keshik. The ones I don't like will either get used at a later time or modified on chains and be strapped on as armor for my Clan Omni's.
Its slow, but eventually I will get what I need and start work on them. Plus I am going to need more Morrigu's too....
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I wonder if Elementals chained to Omni's to act as armor are counted in bidding or not... :)
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Probably counts if the Elementals are on your side or not. That Star Adder Elemental chained to the front of the Kingfisher just might count for the Star Adders bid...
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Why would you chain Battlearmor to your units? Especially enemy BA?
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Why would you chain Battlearmor to your units? Especially enemy BA?
Abalative Armor.
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Why would you chain Battlearmor to your units? Especially enemy BA?
Because it's hilarious and really makes their enemies mad
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Why would you chain Battlearmor to your units? Especially enemy BA?
Obviously you don't understand the relationship we have with the adders. ..
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I wouldn't count them as armor. A naked elemental won't protect against much and would just create some more red paint ... in an interesting blood spattered pattern >:D
You weren't going to let them wear their armor, were you?
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Obviously you don't understand the relationship we have with the adders. ..
No, I don't, and I was expecting an in-depth reason. But I guess I got some okay ones?
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You should have asked then.
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No, I don't, and I was expecting an in-depth reason. But I guess I got some okay ones?
I told you, they serve as Ablative Armor. The Elementals get hit first before the mechs does. So use old outdated Elemental Armor and strap them prisoners on!
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I told you, they serve as Ablative Armor. The Elementals get hit first before the mechs does. So use old outdated Elemental Armor and strap them prisoners on!
There is NO SUCH THING as outdated Elemental Armor! ;D
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There is NO SUCH THING as outdated Elemental Armor! ;D
Well true. But old or new, Elemental Armor for some reason is good for soaking up damage.
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Well true. But old or new, Elemental Armor for some reason is good for soaking up damage.
When the Clans invent multitaskers, they do their job properly.
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No, I don't, and I was expecting an in-depth reason. But I guess I got some okay ones?
First, many Blood Spirit mechs have their weapons in the arms and head. with 5 elementals, you have them
over the three front torsos, and the two side rear torsos. Whenever the 'mech is hit in those locations, there
is a chance it hits the elemental, not the 'mech.
Second, The Blood Spirits and the Adders really do not like each other. Considering that the Adders claim
jumped our hated enemy of Centuries, weaseling the right to Absorb the Burrocks when we RIGHTFULLY
should have been the ones given that honor! Then, after we jumped in to try and take justice from the
Burrocks while the Adders were Absorbing them, the Burrocks and Adders had the nerve to fight together
to protect the Burrocks. From there, the Adders waited a until just after the Great Refusal and began a 10
year invasion of York where they kept replacing all their losses , feeding more troops in a never ending
stream until they finally got tired, pulled their troops off, and orbitally bombarded York to destroy its biosphere!
If that is not a good enough reason to strap Adder Elementals to our 'mechs, I do not know what is!
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Well said. I would likexpect to add there always seemed something fishy about the burrock absortion... like the Adders were trying to cover up something too.
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Ok, in all honesty the Adders were the ones who actually discovered the Burrocks and the Dark Caste connection. While the Blood Spirits had a much longer claim to animosity with the Burrocks would the Blood Spirits have been up to the task? I honestly don't think we would have been. The Spirits would have been bled white in the attempt and chances were they Spirits would have been absorbed right afterword's by another Clan. The only reason the Adders got off so well was because so many Burrocks swapped sides due to there Clans dealings being so dishonorable. They wouldn't have done so with the Spirits. I am pretty certain there forces were more up to date than the Spirits and a larger active warship fleet. We would have made a good fight of it though. The average Spirit MechWarrior is heads above the average Clan Warrior. And I doubt the Burrocks were the top warriors in the Clans-just more numerous.
But all in all, its still fun to strap Abalative Armor Star Adder Elementals in Battle Armor to our precious few Omnimech's.
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Ok, in all honesty the Adders were the ones who actually discovered the Burrocks and the Dark Caste connection. While the Blood Spirits had a much longer claim to animosity with the Burrocks would the Blood Spirits have been up to the task? I honestly don't think we would have been. The Spirits would have been bled white in the attempt and chances were they Spirits would have been absorbed right afterword's by another Clan. The only reason the Adders got off so well was because so many Burrocks swapped sides due to there Clans dealings being so dishonorable. They wouldn't have done so with the Spirits. I am pretty certain there forces were more up to date than the Spirits and a larger active warship fleet. We would have made a good fight of it though. The average Spirit MechWarrior is heads above the average Clan Warrior. And I doubt the Burrocks were the top warriors in the Clans-just more numerous.
But all in all, its still fun to strap Abalative Armor Star Adder Elementals in Battle Armor to our precious few Omnimech's.
Remember that we had a full 11 Galaxies at the time, and lost half our strength fighting the combined might of two clans. I think we would have won if we were fighting only one Clan. If we had followed Clan tradition, and took bondsmen, issued
challenges, and treated the Civilian Castes well, I think we not only would have won, but come out stronger on the other
side. But, eh..the past is the past and cannot be changed...As much as Ice Hellion was nicknamed "Clan Temper Tantrum,"
I think we really fit that moniker better..
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Remember that we had a full 11 Galaxies at the time, and lost half our strength fighting the combined might of two clans. I think we would have won if we were fighting only one Clan. If we had followed Clan tradition, and took bondsmen, issued challenges, and treated the Civilian Castes well, I think we not only would have won, but come out stronger on the other side.
Prior to the Burrock Absorption the Spirits had little reason to engage in an all-out war with the Adders while the conflict with the Burrocks would have been one of Annihilation not Absorption ergo no bondsmen would have been taken, no challenges beyond the basic "if you win you live, if you lose you die" and even the lower castes were marked for annihilation by Khan Schmidt.
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Prior to the Burrock Absorption the Spirits had little reason to engage in an all-out war with the Adders while the conflict with the Burrocks would have been one of Annihilation not Absorption ergo no bondsmen would have been taken, no challenges beyond the basic "if you win you live, if you lose you die" and even the lower castes were marked for annihilation by Khan Schmidt.
They could not have been stupid enough to believe that if they did that, they would not be targeted for Annihilation
themselves. They would have, at best, done as the Jaguars did against the Mongoose, which was NOT a a de facto
Annihilation. While after the Wars of Reaving, the adders did perpetrate a de facto Annihilation on the Spirits, that
was the result of the crazy that was the Wars of Reaving and the changes it wrought on Clan society. The Spirits
would WANT the resources of the Burrocks, anyway, because, after a successful Absorption, they would have known
the follow on result would have been other Clans wanting to test their strength.
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They could not have been stupid enough to believe that if they did that, they would not be targeted for Annihilation
themselves. They would have, at best, done as the Jaguars did against the Mongoose, which was NOT a a de facto
Annihilation. While after the Wars of Reaving, the adders did perpetrate a de facto Annihilation on the Spirits, that
was the result of the crazy that was the Wars of Reaving and the changes it wrought on Clan society. The Spirits
would WANT the resources of the Burrocks, anyway, because, after a successful Absorption, they would have known
the follow on result would have been other Clans wanting to test their strength.
"In their blind desire to destroy Clan Burrock, they had forgotten that the Burrocks returned the Blood Spirits' hatred in full." (FM:CC, p25) "Before Hutchinson and N'Buta could do battle however, three Blood Spirit Galaxies dropped onto Albion, intent on wiping out the Burrocks down to the lowliest laborer." (FM:CC, p114) IMO the Blood Spirit's intent is pretty clear.
Rather than taking a more moderate approach by declaring a Trial of Refusal, they decided to launch a surprise attack interfering with a Grand Council sanctioned Trial of Absorption. Not only were they deluded into believing that they stood a chance against TWO Clan (in the process forgetting how much the Burrocks hated them in turn) but they probably believed that they wouldn't be punished for interfering with the Trial. The only reason they weren't punished by the Grand Council is because they were saved by the Inner Sphere launching their offensive against the Smoke Jaguars diverted the Council's attention. Subsequent conflicts engulfed the Clan Homeworlds and by the time the dust settled the Grand Council was engulfed in political conflicts that would lead to the Wars of Reaving.
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The reason I have my doubts about a successful absorption/annihilation of the Burrocks is the fact for all the Blood Spirits 11 Galaxys and skill, the Burrocks were just as numerous and I think they had superiority in aerospace assets. Not sure what there warship fleet consisted of though, but it had to at least been on par with the Blood Spirits fleet. The Burrocks also had control of five worlds to the Spirist single world, greater manpower and industrial power and the other Clans wouldn't have interfered in a active trial but just stood by and watched. The question would be what percentage of there mech forces were Omni's? I'm betting they had far more Omni's than the Spirits had and far less second line Star League era mechs. I'm not saying they wouldn't make a fight of it. I just believe that they would have bled white fighting it out. My money is on the Spirits winning, but they might have ended up as depleted as they ended up after the WoR.
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Well the Spirits did have an enclave on Arcadia which they abandoned shortly after the Burrock Absorption and the Adders used as bait to get the Spirits to weaken their homeworld defenses enough so they could get a foothold on York.
As for the Burrocks, as far as I can tell the only world they controlled was Albion. Dagda, Priori, Krakau (Paxon) and Hoard were all shared with other clans.
While the Spirits had more Galaxies than the Burrocks, we don't know how large most of those galaxies were pre-Burrock Absorption. Not to mention the Burrock's conventional clusters which had a significant impact during the Burrock Absorption with the 94th Scales alone destroying 43 Spirit 'Mechs. Guess we have to wait until they come out with a Historical: Burrock Absorption. [drool]
Had the Spirits been chosen to absorb the Burrocks they would have faced an uphill battle in order to win even with their secret Galaxies. IMO, unlike the Burrocks fight with the Adders, the Burrocks would have chosen to engage them in space where the Spirits limited WarShip assets would have allowed the Burrock fleet to wreck havoc on the Spirits' DropShips.
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While the Spirits had more Galaxies than the Burrocks, we don't know how large most of those galaxies were pre-Burrock Absorption. Not to mention the Burrock's conventional clusters which had a significant impact during the Burrock Absorption with the 94th Scales alone destroying 43 Spirit 'Mechs. Guess we have to wait until they come out with a Historical: Burrock Absorption. [drool]
Seconded... but unfortunately a pipe dream :(
Had the Spirits been chosen to absorb the Burrocks they would have faced an uphill battle in order to win even with their secret Galaxies. IMO, unlike the Burrocks fight with the Adders, the Burrocks would have chosen to engage them in space where the Spirits limited WarShip assets would have allowed the Burrock fleet to wreck havoc on the Spirits' DropShips.
"In their blind desire to destroy Clan Burrock, they had forgotten that the Burrocks returned the Blood Spirits' hatred in full." (FM:CC, p25) "Before Hutchinson and N'Buta could do battle however, three Blood Spirit Galaxies dropped onto Albion, intent on wiping out the Burrocks down to the lowliest laborer." (FM:CC, p114) IMO the Blood Spirit's intent is pretty clear.
My $0.02 exactly. The Star Adders had the easiest Absorption in Clan history, Scorpion-Hellion 'merger' excepted. Most of the Burrocks weren't inclined to fight to the death for their bandit-loving leaders, the Adders deliberately targeted only the tainted Burrock leaders and willingly Absorbed the others, the Blood Spirits conveniently provided a way for the Adders and Burrocks to merge without a huge loss of face for the latter... and yet the Adders still had enough problems that they had to exile recalcitrant Burrocks to Tanis or Upsilon Galaxy.
If the Blood Spirits had won the Absorption rights, the Burrocks would have fought tooth and nail regardless of their leaders' crimes. The most likely outcome would have been the two Clans mauling each other to death, with the 'victor' soon falling to another Clan.
Who knows, perhaps in that fight the Burrocks might have been the first Absorption target in Clan history to survive.
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While the Spirits had more Galaxies than the Burrocks, we don't know how large most of those galaxies were pre-Burrock Absorption.
A galaxy consists of 5 Clusters. Each Cluster consisted of 3 'Mech Trinaries, 1 armor trinary, and 1 vehicle trinary,
as the Great Father said they should.
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A few of you are being way to kind to the Adders... claiming the Adders absorbing the Burrocks makes sense???? Almost out right stating the Spirits started the blood feud with the Adders??? Dude, you guys are slipping ;)
I like y'all better when you want to strap our elementals to your mech as temporary armor. ;D
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A few of you are being way to kind to the Adders... claiming the Adders absorbing the Burrocks makes sense???? Almost out right stating the Spirits started the blood feud with the Adders??? Dude, you guys are slipping ;)
I like y'all better when you want to strap our elementals to your mech as temporary armor. ;D
We might not have started it...but..um..well..OK, so you guys did finish it..(I still wished the Spirits had gotten
to kill your Khan before they went down..but..eh..*sighs* Out of the Wars of Reaving, no-one got what they
wanted...)
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A few of you are being way to kind to the Adders... claiming the Adders absorbing the Burrocks makes sense???? Almost out right stating the Spirits started the blood feud with the Adders??? Dude, you guys are slipping ;)
I like y'all better when you want to strap our elementals to your mech as temporary armor. ;D
Honestly, the Spirits did start the feud. The interfered in a Clan sanctioned trial, and they did a lot of damage doing so. The Adders though spent decades harassing the Spirits and did everything in there power to ground the Clan down. Up to a point I think even the other Clans still in the Kerensky Cluster were telling them to "Chill out bro". After the WoR I even had some hope that the two clans could reconcile a bit, they had worked together to bring down the Steel Vipers and both fought the Society. But as soon as they Adders found out where the Spirits were they did there best to get the right to kill the Spirits. Which they did. With orbital bombardment. During a Absorption Trial. The Adders went more off the deep end than the Spirits had. They made one mistake while the Adders began to make dozens and only survived because after the Ghost Bears left they were the strongest Clan left in the Homeworlds.
I honestly hope there are Spirit survivors out there, they can rebuild, they can grow stronger, and then they can come back and wipe the dezgra stain of the Adders and what may be left of the Burrocks from the Homeworlds.
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That goes back to the other discussion. The spirits would have made the trial of absorption on the burrock into one of annihilation. The Adders did it Ti us and it was OK, but it wouldn't have been OK if we did it. Once again, clan Davion ftw.
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Dang bro ;)
There were plenty of opportunities for the Adders and Spirits both to step up and bury the hatchet, neither made any effort to do so. It's pretty short sighted to blame it all on one side.
TP: Revival sets the stage for how the Adders think in the Reavings. They went from unity first to unity or die. It just also had to be their version of unity where they are in charge.
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That goes back to the other discussion. The spirits would have made the trial of absorption on the burrock into one of annihilation. The Adders did it Ti us and it was OK, but it wouldn't have been OK if we did it. Once again, clan Davion ftw.
The difference is the Spirits probably would have eventually stopped any atrocity's. They weren't noted for treating there lower castes like crud like some clans. They might have gone the Wolverine route and had all the captured castes made incapable of breeding, but they probably wouldn't have slaughtered them all. The Burrocks would probably have done the same. The Adders though went for a complete annihilation. No if, ands, or buts.
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That goes back to the other discussion. The spirits would have made the trial of absorption on the burrock into one of annihilation. The Adders did it Ti us and it was OK, but it wouldn't have been OK if we did it. Once again, clan Davion ftw.
The Adders did it to you at a point where they knew no one was going to stop them. It was cold and calculating. No one gave a crap when they destroyed York either. The rest of clans had written the Spirits off at both points. I'm not saying I agree with it or not, but the Adders don't make brash decisions like that. They were well vetted choices and the Adders had reasonable measure of the outcome before they made them.
Yes, I wish they had figured out away to hash it out. The Burrock rising would have been the perfect opportunity. But neither tried.
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The difference is the Spirits probably would have eventually stopped any atrocity's. They weren't noted for treating there lower castes like crud like some clans. They might have gone the Wolverine route and had all the captured castes made incapable of breeding, but they probably wouldn't have slaughtered them all. The Burrocks would probably have done the same. The Adders though went for a complete annihilation. No if, ands, or buts.
FM:CC outright stated Schmidt was determined to kill everyone on Albion... read back a few posts.
Atrocities are atrocities whether they get committed by mechs or warships.
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A galaxy consists of 5 Clusters. Each Cluster consisted of 3 'Mech Trinaries, 1 armor trinary, and 1 vehicle trinary,
as the Great Father said they should.
The Blood Spirits' front-line Omega Galaxy only consisted of 3 clusters pre-Absorption and six clusters post-Absorption. ^-^
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Another major difference between the Burrock Absorption and the Blood Spirit Absorption is that the Blood Spirits armed their lower castemen and had proven they weren't willing to be absorbed when they launched attacks against both the Coyotes and the Stone Lions.
(If somebody wants to bring up the reborn Burrocks arming the lower castes on the Tanite worlds remember that was a decade AFTER the Burrock Absorption.)
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The arming of civilians had been talked about before.
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The Blood Spirits have for the last few centuries armed and trained there lower castes and not one Clan said a thing about it before because it can be considered a Clan own responsibility to control its own castes. Every time another Clan has interfered with another Clans treatment of its castes its been trouble. It only became an issue when other Clans showed up and had to deal with it. Heck, the Star Adders just dealt with it when they attacked York and didn't make a fuss about it in the Clan Council.
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Yes, but the arming of civilians was an issue because it happened after the Burrock rebellion, and to another extent because the Star Adders intended to kill off the Spirits, reasons be damned. The armed civilians as an excuse was handy enough, even though at that point the Star Adders didn't need to justify their motives to anyone.
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Except to themselves..
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The Blood Spirits have for the last few centuries armed and trained there lower castes and not one Clan said a thing about it before because it can be considered a Clan own responsibility to control its own castes. Every time another Clan has interfered with another Clans treatment of its castes its been trouble. It only became an issue when other Clans showed up and had to deal with it. Heck, the Star Adders just dealt with it when they attacked York and didn't make a fuss about it in the Clan Council.
Supporting canon quotes please. Do you have any canon material supporting either your contention that the Blood Spirits have been arming their lower castes (this would be separate from the Spirits allowing their lower castemen to test into their warrior caste) or that the Star Adders had to deal with armed Blood Spirit lower castemen attacking them on York? Even if this were true, the Blood Spirits were highly secretive and never used them before in combat thus escaping notice and condemnation by the Grand Council. There is no way the Burrocks wouldn't have tried to use it to push for a Trial of Absorption/Annihilation within the Grand Council. After all only the warrior castes are supposed to fight while the lower castes are supposed to submit to the victor.
As far as I am aware the Blood Spirits started arming their lower castes when they realized that their warrior caste was no longer capable of holding off the predations of rival Clans on their own. It was a 'last stand' effort by the Blood Spirits to survive and played into the hands of the Adders by giving them an excuse to wipe them out.
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You know your self that other clans than the Spirits have armed their civilians. Read the war of reaving. I'm not going to quote chapter and verse for you.
A lot of what you're saying is conjecture. Who knows what the burrock would have done? All over they did do was go away. So did the Spirits because the Adders saw them as their worst rivals. They couldn't turn them into their pets so they killed them and used petty rules lawyerin to do it.
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They couldn't turn them into their pets so they killed them and used petty rules lawyerin to do it.
Think the Adders have been tainted by the Mongoose
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Think the Adders have been tainted by the Mongoose
Blasphemy!
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You know your self that other clans than the Spirits have armed their civilians. Read the war of reaving. I'm not going to quote chapter and verse for you.
Stormlion1 said the Blood Spirits have been arming and training their lower castes "for the last few centuries" and implied that the Star Adders faced armed civilians on York. I am merely asking for proof of either contention. Besides, of those incidents you are referring to, how many were by Clans that had been or were in the process of being Abjured for being tainted or dezgra?
A lot of what you're saying is conjecture. Who knows what the burrock would have done?
If the Blood Spirits had been given the task of Absorbing the Burrocks? Quite true. They might have believed their warrior caste sufficient to hold off the Spirits or they might have armed their lower castes. But then again big difference between the Adders and the Spirits is that with their ancient feud the Burrocks wouldn't have expected the Spirits to spare their lower castes while they expected the Adders to honor the Clan way. Otherwise they would have obeyed their Khan's order to fight to the death.
All over they did do was go away.
???
So did the Spirits because the Adders saw them as their worst rivals. They couldn't turn them into their pets so they killed them and used petty rules lawyerin to do it.
The tone of the conflict was set a long time before the Adders got involved (by the Burrocks) and only ended with the final destruction of the Spirits. Both the Star Adders and the Blood Spirits were in agreement (and the Cobras, Coyotes and Stone Lions were well aware) that their conflict would only end with the complete destruction of one or the other with both sides massacring lower castemen of the other prior to their final confrontation. Unfortunately for the Blood Spirits, they were the weaker Clan (a weakness they were well aware of and desperately tried to overcome by arming their lower castes) and it ended with their destruction.
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Our destruction ended when the adders stopped bombing us from orbit.
I guess that's the honorable clan thing to do though, since the Adders are so honorable. Apparently bombing a planet to rubble is now the honorable clan thing to do. All their pet clans seem to agree with it.
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Our destruction ended when the adders stopped bombing us from orbit.
I guess that's the honorable clan thing to do though, since the Adders are so honorable. Apparently bombing a planet to rubble is now the honorable clan thing to do. All their pet clans seem to agree with it.
The other clans agree with it because they don't want to be bombed from orbit or have a couple galaxies dropped on them. They can't stop either at that point.
There never was anything honorable about either side's actions in the Spirit Adder feud. That's the long and short of it. Not trying to justify orbital bombardment, but the other clans were well aware the both sides were fighting dirty.
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Supporting canon quotes please. Do you have any canon material supporting either your contention that the Blood Spirits have been arming their lower castes (this would be separate from the Spirits allowing their lower castemen to test into their warrior caste) or that the Star Adders had to deal with armed Blood Spirit lower castemen attacking them on York? Even if this were true, the Blood Spirits were highly secretive and never used them before in combat thus escaping notice and condemnation by the Grand Council. There is no way the Burrocks wouldn't have tried to use it to push for a Trial of Absorption/Annihilation within the Grand Council. After all only the warrior castes are supposed to fight while the lower castes are supposed to submit to the victor.
As far as I am aware the Blood Spirits started arming their lower castes when they realized that their warrior caste was no longer capable of holding off the predations of rival Clans on their own. It was a 'last stand' effort by the Blood Spirits to survive and played into the hands of the Adders by giving them an excuse to wipe them out.
Field Manual: Crusader Clans. Blood Spirit Section. Page 23. Fools Gold section. The second measure was to train every member of Blood Spirit society as a warrior....etc, etc.
time wise this is between 2835-2865.
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Except to themselves..
I disagree, I think the collective clan Star Adder was fed up with dealing with the Spirits and decided to just off them and end the ordeal. I don't think they cared about why at that point. They were tired of it and just ended it. Why? Really because they can and no one can do a damn thing about it.
It's not a nice thing. It's not honorable, the Adders had the muscle and control to just snuff the Spirits out, so they did.
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I disagree, I think the collective clan Star Adder was fed up with dealing with the Spirits and decided to just off them and end the ordeal. I don't think they cared about why at that point. They were tired of it and just ended it. Why? Really because they can and no one can do a damn thing about it.
It's not a nice thing. It's not honorable, the Adders had the muscle and control to just snuff the Spirits out, so they did.
So they're thugs. Good thing Alexander is long dead.
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So they're thugs. Good thing Alexander is long dead.
I doubt they see it that way. I'm sure they say things to justify it. They will call it defying the unity or the way. But really, they didn't fall in line the way the Adders wanted. The Adders didn't ask them To either. TP: Revival changed my view of the Adders. They have a big chip on their shoulder because they were the only clan who stood for Alexander's vision of returning united. Yeah Alex K would be pissed at what all the clans have become.
If it were my call; I'd have the Adders extend diplomacy on Honor. Yeah we don't like you and you don't like us, but for the clans to survive we need you. Offer up a world to the Spirits as remorse for York (the Adders have a couple extras). Give them the opportunity. If they refuse (and they might) then you have a real case for the grand council, not just the Adder's forced agenda.
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It just seems to me that by this time they were pretty heady with their power and felt they could do not wrong. And since they were making the rules, they did no wrong.
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It just seems to me that by this time they were pretty heady with their power and felt they could do not wrong. And since they were making the rules, they did no wrong.
And? That has been pretty much standard for all the Clans since day one, including both the Adders and the Spirits. Until military strength proves otherwise they can do no wrong. Rarely will one Clan apologize to another without being forced to or without seeking some political angle. That is pretty standard for most Great Houses as well.
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And? That has been pretty much standard for all the Clans since day one, including both the Adders and the Spirits. Until military strength proves otherwise they can do no wrong. Rarely will one Clan apologize to another without being forced to or without seeking some political angle. That is pretty standard for most Great Houses as well.
Its human nature.
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Another major difference between the Burrock Absorption and the Blood Spirit Absorption is that the Blood Spirits armed their lower castemen and had proven they weren't willing to be absorbed when they launched attacks against both the Coyotes and the Stone Lions.
The issue of troublsome bondsman has also interested me - with the Spirits this is a general thing correct? Due to their distrust and scorn of outsiders? So how do you all thing that would manifest?
Would Joe Spirit be on the one hand haughty and rude and also befuddled by the tech and " riches" the other clans had?
Would Joe Spirit constantly praise his former clan - while I know that would be cause for a paddling I could see a stubborn Spirit in some way be proud of that.
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Really, it kind of depends on the individual. Most of us would rather die than be a bondsman to most other clans. There are examples to the opposite though... there was a spirit in the wolf clan book I book I believe.
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Blood Spirits preferred to be granted BondRef before being taken as Bondsman to a unworthy Clan. And most Clans were considered unworthy for one reason or another. Even Clan Wolf, Clan of Kerensky himself would be considered un worthy to many Spirits. And Bondman to a Inner Sphere unit? Not only No, but hell no!
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The issue of troublsome bondsman has also interested me - with the Spirits this is a general thing correct? Due to their distrust and scorn of outsiders? So how do you all thing that would manifest?
As Col. Hengist stated it varies with the individual, the Clan that takes them as isorla and probably the times as well (specifically the Blood Spirits relations with the individual Clan and other Clans overall). The Wolf Clan sourcebook depicted one warrior from the Blood Spirits who easily adapted to his new Clan going so far as to have his prosthetic arm resemble the forelimb of a wolf (p89, Sumner Johns).
The Clan that truly made troublesome bondsmen were the Fire Mandrills. They had such a bad reputation that the Wolves ignored Mandrill Harvest challenges. Their attitude towards the Falcons says it all: "Soon they [the Falcons] will tire of our bondsmen, but they will have to pay us ransom to return them!"
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OK, that's funny.
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Spirit: I'll die before I become your bondsman
Mandrill: I'll become your bondsman and make you wish I was dead
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Looks like I have a game coming up. My old group is trying to get me back into the game hard core. It's a CBS vs. CSA game. Unfortunately it's a munchy game, no bv just tons and as munchy as you can get.
Total of 2 stars at 600 tons... that leaves me with a lot of room. My plan is 7 mechs and 3 points of proto's. All tech has to be pretty 3080 for some odd reason but I'm not complaining. I really want to use my svartalfa point but it's too late in the time line... oh well. Guess it's back to rocks,orcs and minotaurs.
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Try a couple Sprites... that'll confuse those dirty snakes!
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You know... That's not a bad idea. I'll use some SG ammo or mines....hmmm.
Dirty snakes :D
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You know... That's not a bad idea. I'll use some SG ammo or mines....hmmm.
Dirty snakes :D
When you dominate just remember you had help with your strategy from an Adder ;)
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When you dominate just remember you had help with your strategy from an Adder ;)
You are a good bondsman ;D
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Hengist, you are herby charged with going against the will of the Clans for claiming a Star Adder as a Bondsman. You know the Clan Council's ruling that all Star Adders are to be granted automatic Bondsref and strapped to our mechs to be used as squishy abalative armor.
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....or flash-cooked meat for the surats.
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This Adder is half way decent. We are still Clan Blood Spirit. Are we not based upon the tennent of friendship and frith?
If he proves to be a regular old Adder I'll cut the cord and his throat myself.
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This Adder...
Believes in the Unity first, not just the unity of my clan, but of all clans
Thinks using warships to destroy entire clan planets is distasteful
Has pondered a custom Lancelot with clan guns and DHS for a Spirit warrior
And, most importantly, has just as many Blood Kite minis as Blood Asp minis
Do I get to live??? ;D
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Good night Wesley, I'll likely kill you in the morning.
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Hear this o' members of this Clan, I pronounce judgment on Cold1! He shall be forced to bring us all a cold beer and then be forgiven his crime of being a Star Adder and be upgraded in our eyes to Dark Caste! At which point we just ignore him and his odd ideas! Hengist though, has failed the clan with his so called enlightened outlook and shall take his place as squishy abalative armor strapped to some random Elemental who shall then ride as abalative armor on one of our rare and valuable Omnimechs! ;)
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Hengist and Cold1 form a new clan...
The rise of the Blood Adder begins...
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Stormlion. Imma keel you >:(
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Stormlion. Imma keel you >:(
Bwahahahahaha! And you with that you lost your chance for a Trial of Refusal! Now off to your justifiable fate worthy of a Adder sympathizer! :D
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OK.
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Bloody heathen monkies!! ;)
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That's no way to speak about your Mandrill allies...
P.S. this is the most entertaining clan faction forum... I drop in more often :o
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That's no way to speak about your Mandrill allies...
P.S. this is the most entertaining clan faction forum... I drop in more often :o
Come to the Dark Side, we have orbitaly bombarded baked cookies!
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I like all the clans. CBS is probably in my top 5 though.
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Its odd, I originally got behind the Wolves, then the Wolves-in-Exile, then for some reason I joined the Blood Spirits and I am still considering them my clan of choice. Inner Sphere wise I have recently begun a Clan Ghost Bear painting spree. If I need a living Clan they will be it, but the Blood Spirits are my favorite Clan. So much hate and potential.
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It would be interesting to see if there is a movement in the current clan run Addled society that has mechwarriors painting emblems of deceased clans on their mechs, almost in protest.
Like Natasha Kerensky becoming the Black Widow.
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Natasha Kerensky did it because she was a rarity among the wolves for having Widowmaker DNA, which was in fact very old DNA at that point. I mean the Widowmakers had been dead for what, over a 100 years at that point? That's several generations when it comes to warriors.
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aha ... well maybe some
Addered ... Addled Clanners will develop espirit de corps
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If I was to put together a force for the Spirits final stand against the adders what forces/units would it contain? I know their Touman was in very sorry shape so would it be battered and patched Mechs? If so which types? Thoughts?
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All malitia infantry.
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Lots of Infantry, a point or two of Protomechs, and maybe a mech or two in lousy shape.
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Now that I've been asked a couple of times via PM..., my Blood Spirits campaign - at least for me ended when I went on hiatus last year to focus on my business and work. The players went on and refocused themselves picking up the Scorpion Empire part of it and that campaign lasted a until the summer rolled around and the group dissolved due to other commitments. Someday it may restart, but I just haven't had time to even finish my storyboard version of it for the non-canon units forum.
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That's a shame. Its sad when a campaign falls apart due to other commitments. I have had two die under my feet myself.
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Games end. Eventually, we always hope. It's all good. We had fun while it lasted and we ended it with enough resolution that nobody was left hanging. Eventually I plan to incorporate the material into Edge of Abyss and actually run the game. Just with so much energy devoted to running my business, it's really hard to come up with the strength to take on running a game or even playing one right now. I'm only getting to be active on the forums once more thanks to being home sick with the flu - my first "vacation" in a year :P
On more Blood Spirit-y stuff, set aside canon for a minute and tell me what your plan for dealing with the Burrocks would be? Say, circa 3049 - the invasion trials are over, the Blood Spirits shunted to the side and ignored while the big boys all gear up for the big show. Say the evidence of their complicity with the Bandit caste doesn't emerge and there's no pretext for an absorption trial. How would you run the show?
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On more Blood Spirit-y stuff, set aside canon for a minute and tell me what your plan for dealing with the Burrocks would be? Say, circa 3049 - the invasion trials are over, the Blood Spirits shunted to the side and ignored while the big boys all gear up for the big show. Say the evidence of their complicity with the Bandit caste doesn't emerge and there's no pretext for an absorption trial. How would you run the show?
There actually was plenty of time for Blood Spirits to strike at the Burrocks between the Revival Trials and their complicity with the Bandit caste becoming public (approximately a decade). Even if Clan Blood Spirits was caught up with Operation Revival, there was still plenty of time between the Truce of Tukayyid (3052) and the Refusal War (3057).
Personally, I would have started launching Trials of Possession on lesser Burrock holdings with those front-line units that were publicly known to exist while keeping the secret units as an ace in the hole for when the Burrocks tried to retaliate or for a final confrontation. After wiping out the defenders I would either trade the holdings to one of our few allies, such as the Fire Mandrills, for equipment and supplies or strip it of everything useful before abandoning it for another Clan to claim or the Burrocks to waste resources rebuilding it and defending it. I might even coordinate attacks with some Fire Mandrill Kindraa, who had their own feud with the Burrocks, especially on worlds where the Fire Mandrills already have a presence such as Dagda. With the Burrock WarShip fleet likely larger than the Blood Spirits' fleet, I would try to whittle down their advantage using DropShips and fighters but I would be cautious of forcing a major confrontation.
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A minor offensive? I like that idea. Also after taking over some Burrock holdings seek out more of an alliance with the Cloud Cobras (even if they are working with the Burrocks in the Tanite system ... they are before the absorption aren't they?) and
Sea Foxes ... err Diamond Sharks.
Holing up and sticking our head in the sand did achieve he desired effect. (kinda hard not to though, after so many betrayals -- no matter how small or trivial).
It would have been a good plot twist to have us win our trial of Refusal, Honor for the smallest clan with the least ability to take part in the invasion.
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A strike against the Tanite Worlds would be interesting. A wholesale trial of Annihilation against the forces there would be the shocker for the Burrocks. And there is a very good chance the Cloud Cobra's would stay out of it.
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and an even better chance that we'd get safcon. I'd imagine the Cobras have near complete ASF control, while the Burrocks maintain the ground forces.
Now, we need to re-write the decision to be in the initial vanguard of the force sent to Kent to attack the Vipers ... really? Let the biggest, baddest Clan be the hammer. Make everyone else the brooms and dustpans to sweep up the resulting mess.
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and an even better chance that we'd get safcon. I'd imagine the Cobras have near complete ASF control, while the Burrocks maintain the ground forces.
Not necessarily. Largely depends upon how you declare the challenge and who has overall command. If you declare solely against the Burrocks, any Cobra forces may stand aside and let the Spirits and Burrocks fight it out between themselves in which case the Burrocks are not likely to grant safcon. Likewise if the Burrock commander has overall command of the defense of the Tanite worlds. There is also the good possibility that the Cobras may not even grant safcon to any intruders. After all apparently the Ice Hellions' entire "trading mission" to the Tanis system was captured/destroyed in space.
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Are you implying that we would somehow verbally irritate the Cobras? US? the master BS clan! >:D
Well, ok ... I'd HOPE we could get safcon.
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and an even better chance that we'd get safcon. I'd imagine the Cobras have near complete ASF control, while the Burrocks maintain the ground forces.
Now, we need to re-write the decision to be in the initial vanguard of the force sent to Kent to attack the Vipers ... really? Let the biggest, baddest Clan be the hammer. Make everyone else the brooms and dustpans to sweep up the resulting mess.
Being the Vanguard against the Vipers had to be the dumbest move the Spirits ever made. The losses were just not worth it and it cost the Clan the troops needed in the long run to defend Honor and Haven. I honestly believe the Spirits would have been a going concern if they had taken a reserve position or reinforcements. Damn our clans pride!
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Dumb in retrospect indeed. However, when your Clan had two Galaxies and Troy Boques wiped out in (dis)honorable combat against three Viper galaxies and the Bloody IlKhan*, it doesn't take much to see why they wanted to be first in.
*IIRC
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I think any serious trialing in, around or for the Tanite worlds would open up a fairly large can of worms. The fact is, the Cloud Cobras and the Burrocks concealed for around a century the true value and nature of the Tanis system, each in their own ways but in the end any shining of a strong light there would show that the a) the Cloud Cobras were incompetent and b) the Burrocks were collaborating with dark caste and c) both were hiding the evidence of such behind a veil of secrecy in the Tanis system. I could easily see the orthodox Blood Spirits just screaming bloody murder against both Clans if through trial, enough information got into their hands showing some of what was going on. It'd be one hell of a hot mess.
That said, I doubt the Tanis system would see that kind of attention. Reading the various books, the Tanis system was obviously pretty much an unknown or considered insignificant to most Clans that did know something about it. It seems to me, that the Burrocks got involved sometime after the Cloud Cobras first took the system and they kept their mouths shut because the Cloud Cobras paid them off at first and later, because of their own shadowy entanglements with the dark caste. Beyond that, only the Ice Hellions are noted to have kept sticking their nose into the system until the Wars of Reaving.
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Actually the Tanis system is the perfect target. To the Blood Spirits they would think it a minor garrison easily hit and destroyed. Once there they would discover how more heavily defended it was and either continue the attack or withdraw and wonder why. And maybe ask the Ravens or the Diamond Sharks if they knew why, which would draw the attention of those two Clans that way.
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Actually the Tanis system is the perfect target. To the Blood Spirits they would think it a minor garrison easily hit and destroyed. Once there they would discover how more heavily defended it was and either continue the attack or withdraw and wonder why. And maybe ask the Ravens or the Diamond Sharks if they knew why, which would draw the attention of those two Clans that way.
The problem is that it isn't a Burrock holding and the Cloud Cobras won't like the Blood Spirits poking their nose into "their" business. Not to mention that it could easily attract attention from other Homeworld Clans. Funny thing is, that for all the defensive strength assigned to its defense, the Tanis system had little to offer as far as I can tell.
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Peeking the Diamond Sharks' interest would be a good plot twist.
Unfortunately our own pig-headedness would get in our way ... we need our own messiah to slap us across the face and say "Snap out of it!" -- yeah that's the new story twist, the Blood Spirits learn practicality and patience (or at least ball up our anger and frustration until it's appropriate to let it out)
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After action report posted
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Lets not all forget the Blood Kite needs your vote for a resculpt! If you haven't voted yet, do so soon!
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Lets not all forget the Blood Kite needs your vote for a resculpt! If you haven't voted yet, do so soon!
No it doesn't. Its beauty is in its fugliest. No one unfamiliar with its expects something that ugly to pwn that much face.
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No it doesn't. Its beauty is in its fugliest. No one unfamiliar with its expects something that ugly to pwn that much face.
Its not its ugliness that's the issue! It is its size! Far two small for an Assault.
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I have to agree with stormlion. It needs more pewter.
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No it doesn't. Its beauty is in its fugliest. No one unfamiliar with its expects something that ugly to pwn that much face.
Yeah..I do not expect a Blood Kite to look pretty, either. The miniature really does look just like the art in the
books. The problem is: it is an 85 ton 'mech that is smaller then a Cougar or a Koto. I would love to have it
the scale of CURRENT IWM minis..not the old, abandoned Ral Partha scale..
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Well it still needs votes! And its so close too.
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I posted my vote. I don't think any of mine will win.
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Not sure, but the Blood Kite may be in fifth place right about now.
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. . . but any new-scaled ones I get will look out of place next to the three I already own. . . :'(
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So? They were fun to paint and there still usable so what it matter? Then again were looking at a mech that almost has been archived so is a resculpt a good idea? Yes!
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Not sure, but the Blood Kite may be in fifth place right about now.
You got my vote!
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yeah that's the new story twist, the Blood Spirits learn practicality and patience (or at least ball up our anger and frustration until it's appropriate to let it out)
Sorry the "practical and patient" ideology is already taken ;D
<ducks and runs>
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The Blood Spirits plan of Isolation worked until it no longer worked. Just a little more patience and the WoR probably would have happened everywhere BUT York.
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Not sure, but the Blood Kite may be in fifth place right about now.
I voted for her.
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The Blood Spirits plan of Isolation worked until it no longer worked. Just a little more patience and the WoR probably would have happened everywhere BUT York.
I still think the Spirits only had to extend one olive branch to the Adders khan to khan to stop the thing. The Adders wanted the thorn out of their side, making nice would be a lot easier than what they actually did. I think the Adders would have accepted an apology.
Granted that ain't the Spirit way
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No, once the Adders landed on York all bets were off. The Adders outright stated the invasion was payback for the Spirits interference in the Burrock absorption. Which is funny because it probably made it easier to absorb the Burrocks because the Spirits attacked.
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If we had waited for the burrocks to be fully absorbed we could have launched a boatload of trials against specific units and warriors.
I'm sure it would have gotten out of hand anyway! :P
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Not sure, if the Spirits had waited and then just started trialing things would have gone somewhat better I think. At the very least the Adders wouldn't have attempted to use York as a training ground for there unblooded warriors. In fact it would have probably opened up other Clans with a grudge against the Burrocks to do the same.
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Now that would have been a plan.
Have the Ilchi ask/goade other clans who had a beef with the burrocks to start declaring trials. Adders get bulk of material and weed out undesirable Burrs (err burrocks), other clans and BS get to exact some revenge and pick up some material. (assuming of course we win those trials ... WE WILL WIN!)
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Honestly, the Blood Spirits were among the finest warriors in the Homeworlds. It was only there numbers and there older gear that held them back. So if a number of proper trials had been held and the Adders stuck to the rules the Spirits would I think have done well. And probably have gained access to more modern designs they could have laid claim to or seized as part of batchalls.
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If anything the Blood Spirits should have attempted a Trial of Refusal for the right to "absorb" Clan Burrock rather than foolishly interfere in the Trial.
As for technology, the Blood Spirit had access, that wasn't the problem. The problem was due to their limited holdings that they lacked the means to mass produce said technology. For example, they gained access to OmniTech from their dealings with Kindraa Smythe-Jewel (before their destruction) as well as access to an armored battlesuit and breeding protocols they had seized from the Hell's Horses. Two centuries later, the field Elementals in relatively large numbers but still field only limited numbers of OmniMechs.
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I thought we did put up refusal of some sort and were either defeated or out voted or rejected.
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One more thing to add. Our command structure was a bit too ridged. The lower level commanders weren't allowed to make their own commands.
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Well looks like the Blood Kite won't be getting the resculpt we all wanted. But if you notice we were very close!
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here's a new thought what if Clan Blood Spirit led the invasion of the inner sphere instead of Clan Wolf //?? thought comments have fun with it
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Never happen.
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The Spirits knew they didn't have a chance and barely even tried during the trials. They preffered to save there strength. Literally they came dead last in the competition for a place in the Invasion. But here is a thought, after the Refusal War the Falcons and Wolves conducted Harvest Trials. Does anybody here think the Blood Spirits had units that got cherry picked?
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I don't see why not . if and this a big if the leadership at the time had a little more fore sight and had allowed there merchant cast to expand there products/market they would be able to support a larger military force and possible allow a second trail of position for there warriors. O0 :D
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Clan Wolf was automatically put into the Invasion force, because hey, they are the founder's chosen. The Wolves are not going to be the Clan that is left out.
The Invader Clans for the most part were the most successful of the Clans in terms of size, prowess and political ability. The Homeworld Clans have the Hell's Horses and Star Adders with comparable Toumans to the Invader Clans with the rest being much more limited in size, and the Blood Spirits for all our mutual love of them, were at the bottom of the pile. While being Crusaders, the Blood Spirits shied away from the invasion saying it was premature in large part in self-recognition of their weakness.
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Clan Wolf wasn't included because they were the Founder's Clan rather they were included to bring them to heel. Them being the Founder's Clan merely justified forcing them to participate in an invasion their leaders so vocally opposed.
As far as the Blood Spirits are concerned, they lacked the resources to greatly expand their touman (which led to their secret deal with the Snow Ravens). Their attempts to officially expand their military were undermined by Clan Burrock.
But here is a thought, after the Refusal War the Falcons and Wolves conducted Harvest Trials. Does anybody here think the Blood Spirits had units that got cherry picked?
No, by the time the Harvest Trials got underway, Clan Blood Spirit had already withdrawn most of their forces to York after their disastrous interference in the Burrock Absorption. Neither the Falcons nor the Wolves would have been foolish enough to go there. Besides, both the Falcons and the Wolves were forwarded more than enough challenges to keep them busy.
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Reading through the Revival book today, The Coyotes were the ones who got the Wolves put into the Invasion, and then the Wolves got the undesirable corridor while the other Clan fought it out for the "good ones". Just another one of those tidbits that's shaken loose from new products that's overwritten older material. The story has changed a couple of time between FASA era books then again later clarified in Fanpro and more detailed than ever by CGL. I'll remain convinced to my dying day that the early Clans were intended to be larger than they've ended up with, probably because somebody did some new calculations and saw an oops in the making.
And some Blood Spirits did get picked up by harvest trials. But I'll agree probnably not nearly as many as other Clans lost.
The Revival book also shows that the Blood Spirits bid 9 galaxies, then 7 and lastly 3 and were knocked out of contention by the Nova Cats which is interesting. So they could have maybe gotten in as a Reserve Clan. Anyways then they go home, taking their toys with them figuring they were right in the first place that the time for the invasion was wrong. So there just might be more than being pragmatic about the size of their touman - they might actually think that it really isn't the time to invade just yet and given it's the Blood Spirits that's not surprising.
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I have given thought to this, myself, many times. I like to think that, if the Blood Spirits had gotten in
on the Invasion, they would have gone all in. As in, they would have gone in with their civilian castes
right behind the military, and have been re-assembling factories as they took worlds. Not because they
had no faith in the Kerensky Cluster, but because they were determined to win or die. That is the
attitude I would see from them: We shall either conquer Terra...or there will be nothing left of us. There
is no middle ground.
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I’ve wondered for the last couple years, why the Blood Spirits weren’t the clan chosen by the developers to take the Outworlds Alliance. They seem a natural choice for it. It’s a small periphery nation that should have been within their capabilities to take. Also they would be a perfect fit for the storyline of merging the two civilizations. They could have used their militia system to facilitate it. I’m assuming the Snow Ravens had a developer as an advocate. But to me it seems a more natural fit for a crusader clan to colonize the Outworlds Alliance rather than a warden clan.
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I'm not sure the Blood Spirits would've done well merging with a nation, much less a Periphery nation. Their sense of superiority and belief that they're the one True Clan seems unlikely to allow them to handle merging with a lesser nation easily.
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The Blood Spirits I think would have done well doing what the Hell Horses originally did, take over certain worlds in the Inner Sphere for another Clan. The Jade Falcons could have done so easily along the Wolf Border to free troops up for the Lyran border. I could also see the Blood Spirits when they sent out jumpships looking for a new Colony sending ships as far as the former RWR and looking for lost colony's there.
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The spirits aren't seekers though.
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I don't think the Blood Spirits would have done any better then the Ice Hellions to be honest. They just weren't an AAA or an A or even a B player in the scheme of things. They were a D. A D we all love but still in the end a D.
In my campaign, they ended up abandoning the Homeworlds but they were *way* better off than canon, and they had two ain mchoices - go to the barrens beyond the Outworld Alliance or RWR Outpost #27 and either way they were going to conquer, not peacefully merge themselves with their eventual target(s). But even that required a good deal of shifting into a much different Blood Spirits than canon.
And in canon, the Blood Spirits traded a good chunk of their warship fleet and later their merchant fleet to Snow Ravens, giving the Ravens the chance to get out of dodge (and I suspect allot of those ships were lost in combat during the Wars of Reaving) and dooming the Blood Spirits to staying in/near the Homeworlds.
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Well, that's the thing with an AU. You can make it go any way you like.
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Yeah, but not everyone is going to want to go to the extremes I did. If you stick closer to canon, it's pretty hard to see the Blood Spirits as an Invader, even as a reserve Clan. And if they're the Nova Cat replacement, then likely they'd be put next to the Smoke Jaguars. What do you think their reaction would be?
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The spirits revered the Jags.
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I don't think so. They probably believed the Jaguars were no better than any of the other Clans that spat in their face and led Nicholas Kerensky astray.
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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant, what do you think the Smoke Jaguars would think of the Blood Spirits?
I don't believe there was an enormous enmity involved between the two such as there was between the Smoke Jaguars and the Nova Cats. My thoughts on it would be the Smoke Jaguars would probably fuming at having to share their corridor with ugh, them and the Blood Spirits would suddenly realize the enormity of... their problems. Though I suppose now, the Inner Sphere wouldn't have the wedge that allowed them to go after the Smoke Jaguars so effectively. Or maybe they'd have a new. The Blood Spirits don't actually have strong ties to the other Clans, they just revere what the Clans were and what they should be... in their heads at least. Maybe the 2nd Star League could win them over but I can't see it ending any better than what happened with the Nova Cats.
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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant, what do you think the Smoke Jaguars would think of the Blood Spirits?
I don't believe there was an enormous enmity involved between the two such as there was between the Smoke Jaguars and the Nova Cats. My thoughts on it would be the Smoke Jaguars would probably fuming at having to share their corridor with ugh, them and the Blood Spirits would suddenly realize the enormity of... their problems. Though I suppose now, the Inner Sphere wouldn't have the wedge that allowed them to go after the Smoke Jaguars so effectively. Or maybe they'd have a new. The Blood Spirits don't actually have strong ties to the other Clans, they just revere what the Clans were and what they should be... in their heads at least. Maybe the 2nd Star League could win them over but I can't see it ending any better than what happened with the Nova Cats.
The Jaguars probably held the Blood Spirits in utter contempt for their weak state and their unClanlike ways right alongside the Fire Mandrills but then the Jaguars didn't really hold any Clan in high regard (nor did any Clan hold them in high regard either).
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The BS vs SJ: That might even convince the Combine to move in with their own counter attack w/o a 2nd Star League. Both clans might end up surviving but have to pull out (not us though!) as other clans see an opportunity to take someone else's corridor.
Oh, the AU possibilities there are.
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I don't see the Spirits doing well working alongside the Smoke Jaguars, in the end they would see them the same as the Nova Cats taking up space they had originally won. Now imagine somehow if Khan Showers Clan actually failed at gaining a spot and had to remain in the Homeworlds and the Nova Cats gained the initial Invasion corridor and then were forced to share it with the Spirits. They would have been a lot less cross Clan trialing I think weakening there forces. All it had to take was some bad luck on the Smoke Jaguars part to make it happen.
But honestly in the end the Spirits had no real chance for a spot in the 3050's. But what about if they had joined the Hellions in there run on Jade Falcon OZ? I may not like the Hellions, but they could have done well working with the Spirits I think.
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Work together? agreed, no way. But as a huge honor-bound thorn they'd work great.
A MandrillKindraa-Hellion-Spirit Axis? ... the last best chance of the survival of the small clans? by the founders, I could see the Sharks/Foxes and Ravens profiting off of that.
I think there'd be a clan civil war before the Jihad, possibly sparking it off as news trickles in from the IS Clans. I'd still drop in a Society rising as an effort to stave off the destruction of clans by themsleves ... which serves to galvanize the home clans that had been bitter enemies.
There is so much we could do. Okay, enough crazy speculation -- that should be a different thread
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But honestly in the end the Spirits had no real chance for a spot in the 3050's. But what about if they had joined the Hellions in there run on Jade Falcon OZ? I may not like the Hellions, but they could have done well working with the Spirits I think.
Unlikely, it didn't take the Hellions long to mess up their alliance with the Hell's Horses despite each Clan having clearly defined and, more importantly, separate invasion corridors. But then its not likely that the Blood Spirits would have trusted them enough to make an alliance in the first place. In all likelihood, the Blood Spirits would have believed it to be some kind of trick to weaken their HW defenses.
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Well the Hellions and the Spirits DO cover each other somewhat for what the other lacks but neither Clan particularly has enough good sense or really decent ties to make that work but heck, stranger things have happened.
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Problem...
Spirit/Hellion/Mandrill coalition pre-Jihad versus...
Snakes/Horses/Scorpions???
I see this being something the Adders don't want to be involved with, except it's the Spirits and the first thing they do will be poke the Adders. We know the Adders and Cobras are tight at this time point and the Adders and Horses have had a like minded set of ideas for a long time, and work well together. If you're the Axis of crazy clans you better hope you get the Vipers on board. Otherwise you're getting smacked around.
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Vipers are Wardens, and were relatively stable until the end. They wouldn't have gotten along well with the Spirits I think very well. The Horses or the Scorpions would have been fine allys though at the end or even the Ravens if they hadn't bugged out or the Diamond Sharks. In the end, the best bet would have been the Scorpions.
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There is no way we would be friends with the horses after what the did to help the coyotes destroy that one Mandrill kindraa
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Vipers are Wardens, and were relatively stable until the end. They wouldn't have gotten along well with the Spirits I think very well. The Horses or the Scorpions would have been fine allys though at the end or even the Ravens if they hadn't bugged out or the Diamond Sharks. In the end, the best bet would have been the Scorpions.
They Scorpions have their issues, but they don't strike me as being to well suited to the brand of crazy the Hellions and Mandrills espouse. Truly getting other clans to join the coalition isn't a challenge for the Spirits so much as the other two. The Spirits just bugged out and went home the other two clans have a history of bat-crap crazy and annoying other people with it.
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Aside from the fact that the Scorpions hated the Mandrills, a distinction that usually ends in that Clan's death by random catastrophic circumstances. Eventually.
You would need the Burrocks for a Trio of Insanity. Doing what they did with the Bandit Caste for so long under the noses of all the other Clans is kind of crazy when you think about it.
Cloud Cobras are not good for this for sure, unless maybe IlKhan Khatib's Cobras can time travel.
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Supporting canon quotes please. Do you have any canon material supporting either your contention that the Blood Spirits have been arming their lower castes (this would be separate from the Spirits allowing their lower castemen to test into their warrior caste)
Field Manual: Crusader Clans pg. 23. It's written in to their DNA from their 'betrayal' by the 29th Century: "The second measure was a program to train every member of Blood Spirit society as a warrior". Other Clan lower castes didn't care so deeply about their allegiance, and would accept conquerors under Clan law. The Blood Spirits were bound by their espirit de corps, at this point now firmly entrenched solely within the Blood Spirit society. They would fight to the death to maintain that... and did, repeatedly. It comes up in every single one of the Clan's few conflicts, to a greater or lesser extent, that I can see.
or that the Star Adders had to deal with armed Blood Spirit lower castemen attacking them on York?
Wars of Reaving pg. 69: "This militarization of the lower castes was a key reason Tranquil held out against all comers. The troubling part is that Stiles felt the need to stoop to such unClanlike action to do so. Some of my peers have suggested the precedent set by the Blood Spirits on York allowed such an order, though by my viewpoint the Spirits should have been censured for it"
Then when the Adders returned to York, just for good measure:
"More Spirit vessels rose to defend against the oncoming force, including merchant and other civilian vessels that were armed with nothing more than the ship itself."
And had this to say:
"For many years now, we have run afoul of Clan Blood Spirit’s atrocious twisting of the Clan Way through their arming of the lower castes and their aggravating tendency to refuse integration into their new Clan if taken as isorlaor bondsmen. Arming the lower castes is chalcas; a grossly unClanlike action that is grounds for Annihilation. This action is simply further proof that the Inner Sphere taint has spread beyond the Spheroid Clans and seeped into Clan space"
Indeed; this turned out to be their internalised justification for why the bombardment of York was 'necessary'. They perceived the entire Clan Blood Spirit as tainted for disrespecting the Clan Way by allowing their entire society to hold this 'corrupted' view. Patently absurd given it massively predated any dealings with the Inner Sphere, and was rather a product of the SLDF's own espirit de corps and the Clans' actions centuries earlier, but such was the irrational nature of the reavings.
Even if this were true, the Blood Spirits were highly secretive and never used them before in combat thus escaping notice and condemnation by the Grand Council. There is no way the Burrocks wouldn't have tried to use it to push for a Trial of Absorption/Annihilation within the Grand Council. After all only the warrior castes are supposed to fight while the lower castes are supposed to submit to the victor.
See the full version of the above Wars of Reaving quote with regards to the Adders, and FM: CC explains why it wasn't politically expedient for the Burrocks to make an issue of it: namely their use of similarly unClanlike behaviour that would have seen them censured just as badly, if not worse, by the Grand Council.
As far as I am aware the Blood Spirits started arming their lower castes when they realized that their warrior caste was no longer capable of holding off the predations of rival Clans on their own. It was a 'last stand' effort by the Blood Spirits to survive and played into the hands of the Adders by giving them an excuse to wipe them out.
As established above, it long predates their feud with the Adders. The canon goes to great lengths to explain this is part of their society's DNA after the 'betrayal'. I'm not sure how you've got this impression.
Clan Blood Spirit: Anyone want a hug? Lots of hugs? No? F**k you lot then. We're taking our space-ball and going homeworld. [run away]
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Well said. Others have posted the same but this comes up every few months. Some folks won't let it lye.
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It has to do with exactly why the Spirits were annihilated. Most people have a hard time believing the Adders used a reason that had been common knowledge for quite sometime. The only thing was it hadn't been an issue until then. The Spirits were quite open about it and no clan ever had an issue with it until Honor and Haven. Even the Adders themselves had no issue while they were on York! They needed a reason, one they could be happy with to annihilate the Blood Spirits.
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Yeah, we did that and went there! >:D
Our story was over before it began. As a clan we were supposed to represent the Esprit de Corps of the Clans, but only lasted until the Pentagon wars were over. We were an oxymoron. Promote clan cooperation amongst a society being bred on might makes right and the strong absorbs the weak and meek. I mean, we're the Detroit Lions of the Clans ... We just don't have an organization like the NFL to even out the revenue/resources at the end of the season.
Can we get back to our regularly scheduled AU and Adder bashing? ;)
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It has to do with exactly why the Spirits were annihilated. Most people have a hard time believing the Adders used a reason that had been common knowledge for quite sometime. The only thing was it hadn't been an issue until then. The Spirits were quite open about it and no clan ever had an issue with it until Honor and Haven. Even the Adders themselves had no issue while they were on York! They needed a reason, one they could be happy with to annihilate the Blood Spirits.
I seriously doubt the Clan that had so isolated itself from the other Clansas much as the Blood Spirits did was "quite open" about anything they did especially something that the Blood Spirits felt was dishonorable (but was forced on them by the other Clans). It was an issue prior to Honor and Haven, in at least two incidents Clan warriors armed their lower castes in WoR prior to , in both cases both Clans had already been declared tainted and abjured so there would have been no point to make a big stink about it to the Grand Council. After all, to them it was just further proof that those Clans were actually tainted.
As far as the Star Adders are concerned, they have never been one to go running to the Grand Council for help when things get tough, like Clan Mongoose, or act on raw emotion, like the Ghost Bears after the attack on Alshain. The Star Adders bide their time, building up their forces and planning for when the time is right. They waited until they build up sufficient strength being setting their plans into motion against Clan Mongoose, the Blood Spirits and the Steel Vipers.
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This isn't the adder thread.
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This isn't the adder thread.
Really? I had no idea! :D
I was simply addressing Stormlion1's claim that the Adders had no issue with the Blood Spirit actions. They had plenty of issues, but they simply didn't go crying to the Grand Council at the first sign of trouble. Once they had their revenge the Adders were willing to let things die down, but the Blood Spirits couldn't leave well enough alone ultimately leading to the Star Adders decision to completely wipe them out (although the trouble the Adders had with the resurrected Clan Burrock likely also played a role).
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Really? I had no idea! :D
I was simply addressing Stormlion1's claim that the Adders had no issue with the Blood Spirit actions. They had plenty of issues, but they simply didn't go crying to the Grand Council at the first sign of trouble. Once they had their revenge the Adders were willing to let things die down, but the Blood Spirits couldn't leave well enough alone ultimately leading to the Star Adders decision to completely wipe them out (although the trouble the Adders had with the resurrected Clan Burrock likely also played a role).
I will amend my statement then, they had no issue AT THE TIME with the Blood Spirits arming of the Civilian Castes and didn't run to the council. But to later call for there absorption using it as a reason is kind of stupid. They didn't complain earlier so they shouldn't have complained later. As for the decision to wipe out the Blood Spirits, well York being bombarded to extinction level was sour grapes. They couldn't take the world so they salted it. And it was one of the only worlds in the Kerensky Cluster that was 100% good for human life. Almost all the others are hostile in more ways. The only reason they decided to bombard the Spirits again was the same, they didn't want to deal with them, so they killed them from orbit. They committed one of the great crimes of the Clans. They wasted resources. Even Nicky K didn't kill surrendered Civilian Castes of the Not Named, the Adders did.
Then they stayed in orbit and looked for survivors trying to escape in dropships and blew those up too. Another waste of resources (I wonder where they hoped to flee too?) because they hated the Spirits just that much. They turned a absorption trial into a default Annihilation. Circumventing the way of the Clans as much as any other of the tainted Clans they screamed murder about.
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Really? I had no idea! :D
I was simply addressing Stormlion1's claim that the Adders had no issue with the Blood Spirit actions. They had plenty of issues, but they simply didn't go crying to the Grand Council at the first sign of trouble. Once they had their revenge the Adders were willing to let things die down, but the Blood Spirits couldn't leave well enough alone ultimately leading to the Star Adders decision to completely wipe them out (although the trouble the Adders had with the resurrected Clan Burrock likely also played a role).
We wouldn't leave well enough alone?
We left clan space to live on 2 craptastic planets trying to leave well enough alone. They came to us. We wanted nothing but to be left alone but no. Once again it was pick on the spirits time.
Are you seriously saying that the Adders aren't rules lawyers like the Mongoose? We're going to bring the Spirits up on charges of something that other clans have done, there is presidence for and make it our whole argument.
Way to game the system when every one is already in your corner. Makes that feeling of superiority justified.
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Are you seriously saying that the Adders aren't rules lawyers like the Mongoose?
I wouldn't say that. I'd say they just broke the rules at their convenience, and followed them at their convenience. I've never seen any particularly strong evidence the Star Adders think the Clan Way matters. They don't believe seem to recognise honour except as a political tool, just using whatever machinations, calculations, and bureaucracy help them get by. FM:CC fundamentally describes their reputation as 'timid and honorless'. I think implying they are rules lawyers would both overlook their repeated hypocrisy and imply they actually recognised the rules. Basically, I'd say the title is too good for them.
...
O hai Archangel O:-)
(http://i.imgur.com/HOEk3Ph.jpg)
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I will amend my statement then, they had no issue AT THE TIME with the Blood Spirits arming of the Civilian Castes and didn't run to the council. But to later call for there absorption using it as a reason is kind of stupid. They didn't complain earlier so they shouldn't have complained later.
You probably want to reread the section on the fall of Clan Blood Spirit. It was the Coyotes, supported by the Stone Lions, who went before the Grand Council to demand a Trial of Absorption. The Adders jumped on the bandwagon and tried to get the Grand Council to declare a Trial of Annihilation against the Blood Spirits.
As for the decision to wipe out the Blood Spirits, well York being bombarded to extinction level was sour grapes. They couldn't take the world so they salted it. And it was one of the only worlds in the Kerensky Cluster that was 100% good for human life. Almost all the others are hostile in more ways. The only reason they decided to bombard the Spirits again was the same, they didn't want to deal with them, so they killed them from orbit. They committed one of the great crimes of the Clans. They wasted resources. Even Nicky K didn't kill surrendered Civilian Castes of the Not Named, the Adders did.
The Star Adders were merely one of several Clans that pulled orbital bombardment out of their pocket. Wasting resources? The orbital bombardment preserved Adder forces that were needed elsewhere and sent the Blood Spirits reeling allowing the Adders to focus their resources against other threats (IS Clans, Society and Steel Vipers) before revisiting the Blood Spirit issue. They could have seized the world conventionally but the diversion of the necessary forces (especially as most of Beta Galaxy had been deployed elsewhere) and resulting casualties would have greatly hampered their efforts elsewhere. By the way didn't this discussion start because the Blood Spirit lower castes refused to behave and act like good little lower castemen? ^-^
We wouldn't leave well enough alone?
I was talking about pre-WoR. After the Star Adders sated their immediate bloodlust on the fields of York, the Star Adders didn't continue actively pursue the Spirit-Adder feud. Instead they turned their attention elsewhere such as the Inner Sphere. Even you have to admit that Upsilon Provisional Galaxy would have been just as happy to be deployed to York to face off against the Blood Spirits as they were when told they were heading to the Inner Sphere to test themselves against the units there. The Blood Spirits, on the other hand, went out of their way to antagonize the Star Adders. (NOTE: Not saying that the Spirits did have justification to pursue the feud that is a separate discussion.)
We left clan space to live on 2 craptastic planets trying to leave well enough alone. They came to us. We wanted nothing but to be left alone but no. Once again it was pick on the spirits time.
During the Wars of Reaving did the Blood Spirits simply want to be left alone? No, they were as enthusiastic as all the other Clans in spreading chaos and destruction especially when it came to Adder holdings. (NOTE: Not saying that they didn't have good reason to be active, with the destruction of most of the Clan's manufacturing facilities on York, they needed to rebuild and taking resources from other Clans absolutely makes sense.)
As far as the Colleen system is concerned, the events there were the ending of the Adder-Spirit feud and besides all the other Clans got there first. It wasn't until after the Coyotes went before the Grand Council that any Adders deployed to the Colleen system.
Are you seriously saying that the Adders aren't rules lawyers like the Mongoose? We're going to bring the Spirits up on charges of something that other clans have done, there is presidence for and make it our whole argument.
Way to game the system when every one is already in your corner. Makes that feeling of superiority justified.
They are clearly opportunistic bending the rules when it suits their needs but then so were plenty of other Clans including the Hell's Horses, Wolves, Cloud Cobras, Jade Falcons and Steel Vipers. IMO what I did say was pretty clear that unlike Clan Mongoose, that they didn't immediately go running to the Grand Council when things turned against them. Running to the Grand Council for assistance is a clear sign of weakness that few Clans were willing to make. It would simply encourage others to turn their attention towards them.
As far as gaming the system and that feeling of superiority, hasn't that the Clan way since long before the Clan Invasion? O0 The Adders weren't the first and they certainly won't be the last. Wasn't that feeling of superiority that led to the Clan Invasion of the Inner Sphere in the first place? By the way, didn't the Cloud Cobras oppose the Blood Spirit Trial of Absorption in the Grand Council? ^-^
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They didn't have to run to the grand council. They WERE the grand council.
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They didn't have to run to the grand council. They WERE the grand council.
They were the most powerful Clan, they could do what they want. The Coyotes and the Stone Lions may have been able to absorb the Spirits but would have been mauled doing so. Only the Adders desire to end the Spirits forever made them jump ahead of all the others.
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I dislike the lions.
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They didn't have to run to the grand council. They WERE the grand council.
Not at the time the Blood Spirits first used lower castemen against them on York. At the time they were still playing the role of faithful allies to the Steel Vipers. Second time (Collen system) it became an issue the Star Adders were the only serious candidate to "absorbing" the Blood Spirits without crippling themselves in the process. The Coyotes and the Stone Lions had already stripped the manufacturing facilities they had previously seized so there wasn't hope for much useful salvage to recoup losses. IMO the other Clans hoped that the Blood Spirits would cause significant losses (which they did) before falling to the Star Adders to weaken their power and influence just as the Ghost Bears hoped the FRR would hurt Clan Wolf at Rasalhague and Clan Wolf left the Jade Falcons to face the Lyrans on Tharkad.
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You mean the first time the Spirits called up their malitia?
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Over the last six weeks, I've been subjected to several trials for my staunch refusal to acknowledge the death of the Blood Spirits by a collective of local players and friends. I have survived each and everyone of them, defeating all comers and proving that the Blood Spirits aren't dead until you pry me screaming hatred out of my cockpit. My Blood Kite is a bit worse for wear after taking down twelve times it's tonnage over six separate trials and my alternate self lost a few teeth and spat up his spleen but who needs one of those anyways? :D
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As long as you don't lose your splanch, you're fine!
(splanch- fictional organ mentioned in Irregular Webcomic)
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Over the last six weeks, I've been subjected to several trials for my staunch refusal to acknowledge the death of the Blood Spirits by a collective of local players and friends. I have survived each and everyone of them, defeating all comers and proving that the Blood Spirits aren't dead until you pry me screaming hatred out of my cockpit. My Blood Kite is a bit worse for wear after taking down twelve times it's tonnage over six separate trials and my alternate self lost a few teeth and spat up his spleen but who needs one of those anyways? :D
You truly have served your clan well. Your reward will not only be a new spleen, but a whole turnip of your very own.
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Read this last night. That's some hefty work. Though I checked Wars of Reaving this morning and the text didn't change or fade out a la Back to the Future ;D (I wish it had)
Please don't take this as a rub. I truly like Clan Blood Spirit. It's just starting to sound a little grognardian in here. I can't have that. Clanners can't become the new 3025er's. I won't allow it
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Except that its inevitable. Whenever a faction is killed, that faction's fans auotmatically become grognardian (grognardish?)
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Some of us shall not ever give up on our Clan. Especially as hope springs eternal.
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Except that its inevitable. Whenever a faction is killed, that faction's fans auotmatically become grognardian (grognardish?)
Sad day when the guy with the Blood Kite is a grognard
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Except that its inevitable. Whenever a faction is killed, that faction's fans auotmatically become grognardian (grognardish?)
I use it as an excuse to buy more minis and choose a different colour scheme to paint.
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Funny thing was, none of my tactics were anywhere near as fancy as my opponents tried. The guy I had the most trouble with, was the Steel Viper player who's use of a Batu allowed his ground element - a Battle Cobra and a point of Elementals to pinpoint where I was. I shot down the Batu, then fended off the Battle Cobra but the Elementals were what nearly got me.
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I use it as an excuse to buy more minis and choose a different colour scheme to paint.
Fletch: "When life gives you lemons, you make Hellbringers."
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The destruction of the Blood Spirits just got me to paint up more Blood Spirits! On the workbench is a point of Elementals for my Keshik and there are one or two other Clan mechs that have been set aside for Blood Spirit paint jobs.
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Well I got a question for you all. I was going through my box-o-uncompleted mechs and I came across the Woodsman. Now I know it was a phased out design, not in front line or second line units but It kind of struck me as the perfect mech the Spirits might have kept on or acquired at some point. Possibly from when they were first introduced or one of the many mechs traded for from the Snow Ravens or even just used as a training mech to train upcoming Sibko's on. So my plan is to either give it a random scheme from some Blood Spirit Galaxys. Maybe one of the ones destroyed when the Spirits attempted to interfere in the Burrock Absorption or a relatively uninspired steel scheme with lots of yellow and black to make it look like a training mech. That or I may give it a Dark Caste/Society scheme I use like to use. A Dark Green/Black Panels with Gold Highlights. What do you all think?
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I say use it in front line galaxies. Who cares what the RAT's say.
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No kidding, in what circumstance would the Spirits not put a functioning omni to good use?
Paint it red and let it rip!
It's 2/3 of a Blood Kite...LRMs and ERLLs says Spirit all day!
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It's almost a timby too
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Actually Thinking Alpha Galaxy right now. Mostly because I have the paints for it handy! I may also do Upsilon, but I would need orange paint. For some reason all the Orange I have now is dried up. What happens when you just never use it.
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I usually store my paints cap down to seal them. I suggest upsilon... Always.
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I usually store my paints cap down to seal them. I suggest upsilon... Always.
That is a trick I have never thought of. I will have to try it. Just put last arm on, gave it a rinse and will undercoat it tonight. Most likely going to do Alpha Galaxy though. I also found a Blood Kite I didn't know I had so there will be two getting painted up soon. Or maybe I will paint the Blood Kite up in the Green Ghost's scheme...
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It works with applesauce, too!
Yeah, the RAT's are just suggestion. There is no reason not to give the Woodsman to us. It is not new or flashy, but I am sure it would do the job as well as any other mech.
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I just like the idea that the Woodsman would soldier on with the Blood Spirits when other Clans had long ago tossed it aside or broke there's down for parts. Especially in games where it has a good chance of beating many current front line designs.
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OK, desert tan is painted on, the missile racks are in steel and starting picking out panels and parts in red. I figure the Alpha Galaxy symbol on one arm panel or on the knee. Its strange, I want to personalize it a bit. But I'm having a hard time coming up with an idea. Maybe a Cameron Star on the back? Kill Marks?
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OK, desert tan is painted on, the missile racks are in steel and starting picking out panels and parts in red. I figure the Alpha Galaxy symbol on one arm panel or on the knee. Its strange, I want to personalize it a bit. But I'm having a hard time coming up with an idea. Maybe a Cameron Star on the back? Kill Marks?
Get an Adder graphic from Fighting Piranha, then paint a red target reticle over it }:)
See if you can hand stencil Snake Hunter on it somewhere
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Finished it. Can't lie, I had a hard time with the Woodsman. Not sure why. Next I have a Blood Kite to build and paint for the Alpha Galaxy. After I do a Marauder IIc in Clan Hell's Horses colors.
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Black and red?
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Black and red?
Black and Red and lined in Gold. Second Hell's Horses Mech I've painted. And I'm not really sure the Balius I painted counts as a Hell's Horse's mech.
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Why wouldn't it? So... Alpha keshik?
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Why wouldn't it? So... Alpha keshik?
Yeah. And as for the Balius, it was a April Fools Joke from last year.
(http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37691.0;attach=23420;image)
I called it 'My Little Balius'....
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/miniatures/my-little-balius-luna-edition/
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Howdy to all of my Spirit-loving friends (and not a few enemies)! I just thought I'd pop in and say hello, it's been QUITE a while since I've plagued the forums with my presence. I hope you're all doing well!
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Hey hey, good to see you again Tassa. Been sort of quiet recently, but more active than anything from the surviving Homeworld Clans.
And the Good news is there's going to be a Golden Century product, so maybe we'll see more Blood Spirit stuff.
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Tassa's back!!! YAAAAAAAY!!!!
Something else to shoot at!!! ;D
Just kidding, so did all the news and rejoicing on the new un/re/new-seen and IO bring you back or did you just wander back on your own?
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Heya Tassa, how's things?
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Well, well, well, look who it is. Welcome back, glad to see ya!
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Howdy to all of my Spirit-loving friends (and not a few enemies)! I just thought I'd pop in and say hello, it's been QUITE a while since I've plagued the forums with my presence. I hope you're all doing well!
TASSAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've missed you! Welcome home!
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Stopping by or sticking around?
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LOL, I love you guys. And I'd like to stick around, I've just been working my tail off... and I haven't been as motivated, obviously, since my Spirits got bushwhacked, but I've found that the CapCon fits me very, very well. So who knows? I do miss you guys. Lots of lots of good times on this board, years of it in fact.
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LOL, I love you guys. And I'd like to stick around, I've just been working my tail off... and I haven't been as motivated, obviously, since my Spirits got bushwhacked, but I've found that the CapCon fits me very, very well. So who knows? I do miss you guys. Lots of lots of good times on this board, years of it in fact.
Yup..this is one thng I will say, sometimes, it seem sliike my friends from here are just as close as my RL friends.
Also: Top! When you going t come back to GenCon! (seriously..iit seems like all the cool GMs aren't showing up
anymore! It iis just GrayWolfActual and OrangeWoman left showing up of the old crew this year)
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Yea, I lost a lot of desire to follow BT after the spirits died too. Now the Lyrans are on the ropes... Maybe I should become a falcon and wolf fan so they'll go away. Ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth typing that.
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Yea, I lost a lot of desire to follow BT after the spirits died too. Now the Lyrans are on the ropes... Maybe I should become a falcon and wolf fan so they'll go away. Ugh...that left a bad taste in my mouth typing that.
Oh come on. They'll never permanently kill a Successor State. Both the Falcons and Wolves are going to be gunning for Terra, which will give both your Commonwealth and my League a bit of breathing room to get their feet back under them.
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I wouldn't say never. I could see the Devs shaking things up with a Successor State falling. Then spending years milking the ongoing rebellions and pretender goverments and such.
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I'm pretty sure they are going to kill more than one Successor State before they're done. I'm biased cuz I think that would be awesome. I don't want the Lyrans to go though, I kind of like them. They may end up assimilated into the Wolf in total though.
I still have a feeling the next era involves the houses leading rebellions against the clan over lords.
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Oh come on. They'll never permanently kill a Successor State. Both the Falcons and Wolves are going to be gunning for Terra, which will give both your Commonwealth and my League a bit of breathing room to get their feet back under them.
Case in point. There is no FWL any more.
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Yup..this is one thng I will say, sometimes, it seem sliike my friends from here are just as close as my RL friends.
Also: Top! When you going t come back to GenCon! (seriously..iit seems like all the cool GMs aren't showing up
anymore! It iis just GrayWolfActual and OrangeWoman left showing up of the old crew this year)
I am hoping to get back to Gen Con as a Demo Team member next year. Depends if we get a new house or not.
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I wouldn't say never. I could see the Devs shaking things up with a Successor State falling. Then spending years milking the ongoing rebellions and pretender goverments and such.
You mean like they did with the FWL? Which they brought back.
Case in point. There is no FWL any more.
Ahem. Which they brought back.
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It'd be a long shot, but the clans could rebuild the entire original clan system if they wanted ... It's as good a plan as the Vipers trying to wipe out the 'tainted' clans and then the Adders letting everyone else bleed themselves dry just so the Adders could get the final blow on the Vipers. But, I'm still not bitter >:D
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I can see the onset of a new Succession War in the 3150's and the entire Inner Sphere balkanising. The Fed Sunset breaking in half or thirds, the FWL breaking apart again or being useless as there is internal struggles. The Lyrans going Bach to the Archonnettes system again. Only the Combine staying in one piece but too war weary to really do more than raid.
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Big difference between the FWL and the Blood Spirits. Most of the parts that made up the FWL were still there just broken apart into separate entities which could be put back together while, as far as we are aware, there was nothing left of the Blood Spirits to reform Clan Blood Spirit around.
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Big difference between the FWL and the Blood Spirits. Most of the parts that made up the FWL were still there just broken apart into separate entities which could be put back together while, as far as we are aware, there was nothing left of the Blood Spirits to reform Clan Blood Spirit around.
Always been the odd thing for me. The Adders still maintained a blockade of Honor and Haven even after the Spirits fell (they claim they don't want other clans looking through the wreckage and going for salvage) and they fired on escaping dropships that had no where to go. I have a thought that there were other Spirits still out there and they didn't get them all.
And lets not forget the Green Ghosts that reportedly sport Blood Spirit insignia now.
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I'm with you on everything but the ghosts. They sport everyone's insignia.
The Spirits trying to get away is suspicious. I have a feeling the Adders feel the same way but don't know where they were going. This they stand watch in case anyone returns.
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Eternal vigilance to their shame, lest anyone see their flaws
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Eternal vigilance to their shame, lest anyone see their flaws
The real sad part is the Adders now have the Spirit Legacys and Bloodnames kept on Strana Mechty. While I doubt they will use them anytime soon they are now a trade item and a target for Adder scientists to play with. I wonder how many of the Homeworld Clans would trial for various Blood Spirit Legacys and how hard would the Adders fight to defend them? Or would they destroy them to show the final insult?
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Adders are pretty pragmatic. I expect those legacies to remain viable for use at some point.
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They'll probably claim them and raise sibs at some later date. Or mux them in with theirs...they need some good pilots.
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There was that posting showing Ben, Paul, and Herb brainstorming on a big piece of paper that read the return of Ilclan Boques...so there's that
I'd say the Adders would never use the legacies but trading them to get them back into the gene pool is probably a must. My guess is neither the Cobras or Lions would take issue using them. I've thought it over a ton and it makes sense in 3090 except I can't see what the Adders need in return. They have so much more of everything than the other clans. Maybe proto or aero or related legacies form the Cobras. From the Lions... uh Gargoyles or Mars or something, I doubt it.
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The Cobras make the most sense to me, since immediately before the Reaving and Jihad kicked off, the Spirits were trying to build relations with them to the point of assigning a new ilChi and trading 'Mechs with them.
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The home clans simply need more men and materials. More trueborns makes sense, you get more warriors and more workers ... from all those failed warriors.
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You need exploration to find new worlds to get that material from. IIRC the home worlds ate pretty tapped out and they lost a bunch of them
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Well last we saw them, the homeworld clans appeared ready to eat the Hansa
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I thought there was still plenty of materials left in the homeworlds ... habitable working conditions, not so much. I would think the rebuilding of the civilian infrastructure for those worlds would take a lot of people (of whom they have less of now).
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Always been the odd thing for me. The Adders still maintained a blockade of Honor and Haven even after the Spirits fell (they claim they don't want other clans looking through the wreckage and going for salvage) and they fired on escaping dropships that had no where to go. I have a thought that there were other Spirits still out there and they didn't get them all.
Where did the Star Adders claim that? I was always under the impression it was to make sure that there were no survivors. Especially after several Society cells launched attacks after they were supposedly wiped out.
The real sad part is the Adders now have the Spirit Legacys and Bloodnames kept on Strana Mechty. While I doubt they will use them anytime soon they are now a trade item and a target for Adder scientists to play with. I wonder how many of the Homeworld Clans would trial for various Blood Spirit Legacys and how hard would the Adders fight to defend them? Or would they destroy them to show the final insult?
It depends upon whether the Star Adders even bothered trying to capture the facility intact or simply wiped it out with the defenders or stripped the facility of usable equipment after the battle.
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What the Homeworld Clans need the most is scientist's. And if they come from failed Warriors so much the better. At least they will be loyal in comparison to the last bunch they had.
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actually, replenishing the ranks of the scientist caste would be easy enough. as you said, they're just failed warriors (and freebirths with talent)
their real problem is knowledge. the old scientist caste worked as well as it did because there was a real continuity of knowledge. older competent scientists could train the new recruits in the needed knowledge, guide them in projects, etc. and that system had been in use since the start of the clans.. which had Star league scientists and SLDF engineers as the founding members, who'd benefitted from the star lqagues own education system and continuity of knowledge.
but the reavings have resulted in the scientist caste being gutted. a lot of those older scientists are gonna be gone, the continuity of knowledge broken. the new scientist caste is going to have to do a lot of catch up to rediscover the knowledge base of the old one, and not all of that will be in a book or record somewhere. (especially if the warriors are skeptical of the old caste's records holding dangerous computer viruses or seditious material)
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Said it like a year ago and I finally have started it. Bloodguard Keshik Elementals. Only a single hex base of five for now. I ordered two sets of the more 'dynamic' sculpts of Elementals and used only the ones that looked relatively normal and fully equipped and I will now start working on them. And except for a Comstar Avatar there is nothing to distract me...for now.
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IMHO a good pool to recruit new scientists from are the technicans.
They do have a good basic knowledge and an excellent knowledge how to use this in practical work. Recruiting the brightest from them will form a cadre the new scientist caste can form.
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^ Huh?
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IMHO a good pool to recruit new scientists from are the technicans.
They do have a good basic knowledge and an excellent knowledge how to use this in practical work. Recruiting the brightest from them will form a cadre the new scientist caste can form.
It's not ideal but it's gotta be better than recruiting from sibko washouts!
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I just found the Jenner IIC I'd painted up for the Blood Spirits (Omicron Galaxy). I've been looking for him for six months!
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I never found the Jenner IIC that particularly Stealthy before... :)
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I never found the Jenner IIC that particularly Stealthy before... :)
It probably has either a really good pilot, or a really bad one ;D
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Oh, that's mine Top. Glad you found it for me.
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Oh, that's mine Top. Glad you found it for me.
Oh no no no no no no no no no no no no no no......
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was it hiding in a hidden drawer that none of the other minis knew about?
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No, it was in a small minis case which I took to a Demo to set up as a static display of paint schemes for Battletech. I had tucked the case away and then wondered where those miniatures had gotten to. :D
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No, it was in a small minis case which I took to a Demo to set up as a static display of paint schemes for Battletech. I had tucked the case away and then wondered where those miniatures had gotten to. :D
You should have said "Yes...and the irony is not lost on me" ;) Even if it was not the truth!
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We missed a whole mini case worth of Spirits???? Dang it! ;D
Should we dispatch a naval star to complete the "absorption"???
Seriously, I wish I had enough finished minis to misplace a whole case of them.
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I'll bid my lego fleet and all of my original star wars fighters! (quite a few of them)!!!
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My current Lego fleet consists of a little crane, a dump truck, some type of jeep thing and a random assortment of about 150 other blocks. And requires me to steal them from my 3 year old.
You win
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Is your wife's name Colleen?
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My current Lego fleet consists of a little crane, a dump truck, some type of jeep thing and a random assortment of about 150 other blocks. And requires me to steal them from my 3 year old.
You win
LOL ... my daughter has taken my lego star wars ships to use for her lego friends. It's all good, right?
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I demand this become canon. The Blood Spirits misplaced a unit and no one could find them.
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given the current situation, a lost unit was probably holed up somewhere ... starved to death/died from environmental factors/etc ... and is now a bunch of skeletons. 'course that depends on the size of the unit.
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How about Morrow Project meets Battletech?
A lost unit of Blood Spirits, held in cryogenic suspension, awake long after their Clan was destroyed, and seek to...... 8)
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Is your wife's name Colleen?
Nah but my boys are named Alaric and Archer O0
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How about Morrow Project meets Battletech?
A lost unit of Blood Spirits, held in cryogenic suspension, awake long after their Clan was destroyed, and seek to...... 8)
That's......the coolest idea of the day. And I don't even mean that in a punny way.
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As long as we're cooler than Buck Rogers!
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Morrow Project reference. Nice. O0
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Morrow Project reference. Nice. O0
I love that game, 8)
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I love that game, 8)
So did I. Enough to throw a few bucks its way with the Kickstarter. Sadly none of my friends ever were willing to start a new campaign with the new rules. :(
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I demand this become canon. The Blood Spirits misplaced a unit and no one could find them.
Technically, that did actually happen. To the 29th Blood Drinkers referenced in FM:CC. I made a unit out of them. :)
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Today I brought honor to the Clan. Had a nice little three way fight between the Ghost Bears, Jade Falcons, and my Blood Spirits. 4000 BV so I had a Stooping Hawk and three Minotaur's. Ghost Bears had a Uller and Dire Wolf and Falcons had a Uziel and a Mad Dog. Long story short I harassed the Ghost Bear Uller for a while until the Stooping Hawk died to a lucky strike (center torso, two crits and both were gyro hits) and the three Minotaur's ended up bringing down the Mad Dog by killing its legs and letting it fall (It was heavily overheated and the ammo cooked off) and then hunted down the Uller. In the end a single Minotaur walked away with Victory.
I have a new appreciation for Protomechs.
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Well done sir! [applause]
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Today I brought honor to the Clan. Had a nice little three way fight between the Ghost Bears, Jade Falcons, and my Blood Spirits. 4000 BV so I had a Stooping Hawk and three Minotaur's. Ghost Bears had a Uller and Dire Wolf and Falcons had a Uziel and a Mad Dog. Long story short I harassed the Ghost Bear Uller for a while until the Stooping Hawk died to a lucky strike (center torso, two crits and both were gyro hits) and the three Minotaur's ended up bringing down the Mad Dog by killing its legs and letting it fall (It was heavily overheated and the ammo cooked off) and then hunted down the Uller. In the end a single Minotaur walked away with Victory.
I have a new appreciation for Protomechs.
Interesting choices on their part. Which Minotaur was it? The classic slabs of armour and two ER mediums? Also who killed the Dire Wolf: You or the Jade Turkey?
But, yes..now, you want to see them being really dangerous? Try fielding them in a full, mixed point. Those
three Minotaurs backed by two either Rocs(or Roc 3s) or Gorgons. Or just a full 5 Minotaur point, though that
cannot quite do the Circle of Death(where protomechs form a ring around a target, and it has to choose who
it lets get into its back)
But, Protomechs are deadly, and majorly under-appreciated by most players who do not see them used by
capable players. SO many people who use them are just "OK..I am goign to try this out" and throw them
down, and play looking for the flaws..not looking for the strengths. Also..so many people do not play
aggressively, and Protomechs are not something for a timid player.
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Interesting choices on their part. Which Minotaur was it? The classic slabs of armour and two ER mediums? Also who killed the Dire Wolf: You or the Jade Turkey?
But, yes..now, you want to see them being really dangerous? Try fielding them in a full, mixed point. Those
three Minotaurs backed by two either Rocs(or Roc 3s) or Gorgons. Or just a full 5 Minotaur point, though that
cannot quite do the Circle of Death(where protomechs form a ring around a target, and it has to choose who
it lets get into its back)
But, Protomechs are deadly, and majorly under-appreciated by most players who do not see them used by
capable players. SO many people who use them are just "OK..I am goign to try this out" and throw them
down, and play looking for the flaws..not looking for the strengths. Also..so many people do not play
aggressively, and Protomechs are not something for a timid player.
Conditions of the game was 4000 BV and a limit of four mechs. Jade Falcons killed the Dire Wolf with a little help from me. My Stooping Hawk denuded the Right Torso a bit and some of the other parts. I jumped to short range for a right side shot and paid the price. Two turns later the Jade Falcons brought it down. As for the Minotaur's, it was the classic version I used. Six ER Medium Lasers are nothing to sneeze at. I don't use Protomechs often and everytime I do I am reminded of there quality. They are going to see more use I think in the future when I run my Blood Spirits again.
Me and the guy running the Jade Falcons kept joking that this was a trial about the use of Protomechs and how the Falcons didn't use them vs the Clan that adopted there use wholeheartedly. Plus I got to mock my opponent for his experiments with LAM's. The Ghost Bears were there to try to interfere so we ganged up on them. At least we did until the Mad Dog took a pot shot at one of the Minotaur's that is.
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With my most recent foray into Protomechs I've decided to add a few more to my Blood Spirit Forces. I've got Hydra's, Minotaur's, and Roc's right now and I figure adding about two more units. Most likely I will get five Delphyne's but anyone have a better idea? Did the Blood Spirits adopt any Society Proto's after the WoR?
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The Chrysaor is a fluffy choice, but perhaps not the...best choice :)
The MUL does give the Blood Spirits access to the Sprite UltraHeavy ProtoMech
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The Chrysaor is a fluffy choice, but perhaps not the...best choice :)
The MUL does give the Blood Spirits access to the Sprite UltraHeavy ProtoMech
As does the "Deployment" section of the Sprite's entry in WoR.
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Delphyne and Chrysaor are good choices. However, I will admit to being fond of the
Gorgon and the Satyr 4(then again, I also have an artillery 'mech in my Trinary, and
like to use indirect fire from LRMs, and the Satyr 4 is rather good for supporting those)
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I like to Roc. That's just how I roll... :))
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I think the Gorgon and the Delphyne's will be the way to go. Giving me after there done twenty five Protomechs on the shelf. I may order some Sprites at some point as well. Just for giggles.
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I like to Roc. That's just how I roll... :))
Congratulations, sir, you won the Internet today.
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question of the day if Andrey Kerensky survived operation Klondike thoughts on his decision to join Clan Blood Spirit instead of Clan Wolf???
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I doubt it, he most likely would have joined with the Wolves with his Brother. I don't see Nicholas letting Andery out from under his thumb if he could help it.
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Or the 'yotes... Considering his wife was the Khan.
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Given Andery`s character he would have fit in Clan Blood Spirit ;)
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I hope everyone is voting for the Blood Kite resculpt on the new sculpt recommendations list!
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I hope everyone is voting for the Blood Kite resculpt on the new sculpt recommendations list!
Link please? Because I cannot find it where it would make sense..
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Link please? Because I cannot find it where it would make sense..
Here you go
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50109.0
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Here you go
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=50109.0
Oh! In the fan-financing forum..I stopped looking there when I heard that fan financing was dead last year.
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Looks like Fan Financing is now a yearly thing. There just setting up the sculpts that will be done for next year.
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I didn't know about it either. I don't come here often anymore either though.
I went bloodkite and Zeus. It was a hard one though. I really want to see a hoplite based on the OP:K art.
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I didn't know about it either. I don't come here often anymore either though.
I went bloodkite and Zeus. It was a hard one though. I really want to see a hoplite based on the OP:K art.
Blood Kite needs a resculpt so it needs the votes.
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Blood Kite needs a resculpt so it needs the votes.
Yes, it does. If we were still dealing with the Ral PArtha Scale, it would not need one..
but given the rather large scale of IWM and the current popularity of Alpha Strike?
The Blood Kite needs to be in the current scale..
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Eh, I don't agree. I like my Blood Kites, in all their hideous, high-heeled glory. I have like, three of them.
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I wonder if the Blood Spirits might be brought back into the official time line?
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I wonder if the Blood Spirits might be brought back into the official time line?
Most likely no, but we can always hope there were survivors that stayed out of the Star Adders way.
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I wonder if the Blood Spirits might be brought back into the official time line?
A Blood Spirit Morrow Project would be a cool roleplaying campaign. If anyone would have set up that kind of contingency plan, it makes sense for the Blood Spirits to have done it as insurance to preserve Little Nicky's vision for civilization.
But I don't think it's likely to be revealed to have been set up in the canonical storyline.
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A Blood Spirit Morrow Project would be a cool roleplaying campaign. If anyone would have set up that kind of contingency plan, it makes sense for the Blood Spirits to have done it as insurance to preserve Little Nicky's vision for civilization.
But I don't think it's likely to be revealed to have been set up in the canonical storyline.
I honestly think its more likely the Blood Spirits may have a surviving colony out there that still hasn't been found. And we have storys of Green Ghost's running about sporting the Blood Spirit insignia.
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A Blood Spirit Morrow Project would be a cool roleplaying campaign. If anyone would have set up that kind of contingency plan, it makes sense for the Blood Spirits to have done it as insurance to preserve Little Nicky's vision for civilization.
But I don't think it's likely to be revealed to have been set up in the canonical storyline.
How I imagine a link up with the Wobblies:
Wobbly: We are outcasts from our home. Those that we tried to befriend and help thrust us out after defiling our Master's vision of unified mankind right on the cusp of recognizing us and our goals! We were about to unite with our enemies as friends and they RUINED IT! They looked at the gifts we offered and spurned us!
Blood Spirit: We are outcasts from our home too! Those that we tried to befriend and help tossed us out after spending centuries defiling OUR interpretation of OUR master's vision. Right when it seemed as if we could unite with our enemies and work toward common goals together they turned on us too!
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I could so see the wobbies and the blood spirits joining forces.
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I could so see the wobbies and the blood spirits joining forces.
Wasn't that the original plan though that Ben Rome had? The Blood Spirits had taken WoB troops as Bondsmen and the wacky adventures they all had? The defunct timeline the Blood Spirits actually survived the WoR's.
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I could so see the wobbies and the blood spirits joining forces.
The glue of hatred for others would be stronger than titanium. Juicy!
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. . . you know what? Automatic aversion to Blakists aside, I'd totally be okay with that. Because the only thing that could possibly make me love the Blood Spirits any more than I already do is "more unreasoning hatred." Let the galaxy burn!
Cough. Ahem. Sorry, still got a little 40K stuck in my head somewhere.
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How about Trillian turning to the Blood Spirits in desperation to get rid of Alaric? ;)
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I don't think we would have the forces to turn the tide of battle but that would be awesome! 2 of my 3 favorite factions fighting on the same side.... Oh yes...
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I don't think we would have the forces to turn the tide of battle but that would be awesome! 2 of my 3 favorite factions fighting on the same side.... Oh yes...
Hey now! This is BattleTech, where worlds are defended by a mere Lance of 'mechs and some infantry and vehicles.
So, even a Trinary of the most well trained Clan Warriors could easily turn a tide of battle.
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I heard one planet was defended by a bunch of kids with slingshots! ::)
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I don't think we would have the forces to turn the tide of battle but that would be awesome! 2 of my 3 favorite factions fighting on the same side.... Oh yes...
And the Blood Spirits would get to use to all those cool German marches to broadcast while they advanced ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDhGjyATSGY
Karianna Schmitt would have loved it :'(
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Lol she would have set herself up as ArKhan.
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Lol she would have set herself up as ArKhan.
. . . oh my. Congratulations, sir, you win the Internet for the day!
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Honestly due to the one Dark Angel novel we have I think that there may be surviving Blood Spirits in the Inner Sphere. But evolved away from there clan roots into a more 'secretive' organization. Perhaps they still maintain there mechs and ships in secret and use force only when its used to keep the remnants of the Clan safe rather than for an outright purpose.
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Blood Avatar should be taken the same large grain of salt as the ending of Bonfire of the Worlds.
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Blood Avatar should be taken the same large grain of salt as the ending of Bonfire of the Worlds.
Why? There's never been anything said to render it non-canon or the like. It's as legit a part of the BT universe as anything else
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I would applaud if we would see ex Blood Spirits bloodnamed warriors in whatever have the Homeworlds evolved to (for example Galaxy Commander Nicole Schmitt of the Animus Astra Assault Galaxy).
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I want to know what happened to the galaxy commander of Upsilon. He took over with a lot of flair and potential then was gone... Guess we weren't allowed to have hero's.
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I'm pretty sure Herb mentioned in some Q&A about Blood Avatar that it was pretty messed up. I'll have to look around for it but it was long time ago so who knows.
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I think Blood Spirits as small groups and individuals is fine, but as a clan ... we've been ground down to make way for others.
Considering the ability of factions in BT to be reborn, who knows.
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Hey, the BT authors once depicted wheat being harvested in snow because it was winter wheat! Bringing the Blood Spirits back is nothing compared to that farming miracle! :D
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Hey, the BT authors once depicted wheat being harvested in snow because it was winter wheat! Bringing the Blood Spirits back is nothing compared to that farming miracle! :D
Wait..you mean winter wheat does not get harvested in winter? Next thing you know, you will say that a
winter rose is not a rose that blooms through snow...
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Eh, I don't agree. I like my Blood Kites, in all their hideous, high-heeled glory. I have like, three of them.
I don't have that many minis comparatively but I have more Blood Kites than you. Better get on that dude!!! ;D
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I don't have that many minis comparatively but I have more Blood Kites than you. Better get on that dude!!! ;D
Priority of supply went to the Mariks and the Bears, in that order. However, I'm cutting back on my gaming collection so I may end up dumping a lot of my Bear stuff and reinvesting in my plan to build the entire 7th Blood Drinkers Cluster...
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Been revisiting my big Blood Spirits campaign and (finally!) getting all the in-game notes compiled to post in a FM style setup in the Fan section. I had forgotten completely about the stuff they could have done if they had gone the other direction and headed to Outworlds Alliance OR if they had stood their ground.
Been also rereading Blood Avatar. Haven't gotten to the good part yet. Not a terrible cop procedural novel so far, but pretty basic.
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Merry Christmas! May you get a 'Mech under your tree! 8)
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Merry Christmas :-)
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They left us some hope. We know the Spirits had sent out ships looking for new colony's. Honor and Haven were two of them and the WoR book was written by the survivors of the Homeworld Clans. Another colony they didn't find wouldn't be in the book. Plus there is a Jumpship that went to the Inner Sphere to deliver a Diamond Shark merchant at one point. Some Green Ghosts have Blood Spirit markings and some units like the Blood Guard Keshik just disappear from the narrative so we don't know how or when they were destroyed. But the biggest for me is the Blood Spirit logo in the WoR book. Its covered in Bullet Holes but not destroyed or gone like the other Clans. Its still visible. I think that means something.
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Its still visible.
:o
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It's a valid point. Might not mean anything (probably just a printing ghost or something) but page 212 is the last page with the Goliath Scorpion showing, page 220 is the last with the bold Blood Spirit emblem showing, but then the rest of the book has a faded Blood Spirit in its place. Not a blank box like everyone else, a faded, bullet ridden Spirit emblem.
Not enough to confirm anything, or even to give any hope of a Spirit return, but if any of their Bloodnamed are around to continue some warrior lines, I'd take it.
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Not enough to confirm anything, or even to give any hope of a Spirit return ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMRrNY0pxfM)
I've never empathized with Jim Carrey so much.
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They left us some hope. We know the Spirits had sent out ships looking for new colony's. Honor and Haven were two of them and the WoR book was written by the survivors of the Homeworld Clans. Another colony they didn't find wouldn't be in the book. Plus there is a Jumpship that went to the Inner Sphere to deliver a Diamond Shark merchant at one point. Some Green Ghosts have Blood Spirit markings and some units like the Blood Guard Keshik just disappear from the narrative so we don't know how or when they were destroyed. But the biggest for me is the Blood Spirit logo in the WoR book. Its covered in Bullet Holes but not destroyed or gone like the other Clans. Its still visible. I think that means something.
You have inspired me to dig out my WoR book. :)
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You have inspired me to dig out my WoR book. :)
For one of the smallest Clans the Blood Spirits have some of the most rabid fanbases. I think they threw us a bone for conspiracy theory's.
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For one of the smallest Clans the Blood Spirits have some of the most rabid fanbases. I think they threw us a bone for conspiracy theory's.
Yeah..how many threads are we on, compared to other extinct clans?
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Yeah..how many threads are we on, compared to other extinct clans?
Were on all of them. Literally all of them. Move on to another Clan? On there thread we talk about Blood Spirits. We still use Blood Spirit mechs in other Clan's forces. Heck, I have a Blood Kite painted up in Davion colors! Heresy I know, but I just had to...
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I'm pulling your blood spirit card
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Were on all of them. Literally all of them. Move on to another Clan? On there thread we talk about Blood Spirits. We still use Blood Spirit mechs in other Clan's forces. Heck, I have a Blood Kite painted up in Davion colors! Heresy I know, but I just had to...
Your Blood Kite may have syphilis. Please take it to a doctor immediately.
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When the other Clans get to Clan Heaven, they will find the Blood Spirits guarding the streets.
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And the Mongoose keeping out the snakes
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I like to say the mech had a history. ;)
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Forget what I said about Blood Avatar being not terrible. It still doesn't quite top Star Lord for being a novelization of a crappy RPG campaign but man, that ending in Blood Avatar is confusing. Basically it alludes to a Clan conspiracy protecting some secret that's never revealed and that one of the Republic's own agents is a member of the Clan conspiracy and happens to have a last name that's an anagram for a Blood Spirit bloodname. That's IT for connections to the Blood Spirits.
I seem to remember it having more to it, but I've reread it twice now since I started to reread it a few months ago and whatever memories I had of the book were all pretty wrong. It's a stinker.
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Forget what I said about Blood Avatar being not terrible. It still doesn't quite top Star Lord for being a novelization of a crappy RPG campaign but man, that ending in Blood Avatar is confusing. Basically it alludes to a Clan conspiracy protecting some secret that's never revealed and that one of the Republic's own agents is a member of the Clan conspiracy and happens to have a last name that's an anagram for a Blood Spirit bloodname. That's IT for connections to the Blood Spirits.
I seem to remember it having more to it, but I've reread it twice now since I started to reread it a few months ago and whatever memories I had of the book were all pretty wrong. It's a stinker.
It was a mystery novel masquerading as a Battletech novel. It didn't even have any mechs in it. But I think it was set up for something else down the road that never materialized.
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I'm pulling your blood spirit card
*snerk* well I am a fan of the Federated Suns as well as the Clan Blood Spirit, but I never thought of "mixing". ;D
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I had the mini, already had three in Blood Spirit colors and I was painting FedSun Lancers. I thought to myself, "Hey! This would look good in Blue with Gold Accents." And a trophy mech was born. Better than painting it in Star Adder colors. Still have never used it though in a game.
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So moving on to a new topic, here's a question that's been bugging me for a while. So the Spirits rigidly adhere to a very specific unit structure, but where do the ProtoMechs fit in? Did they create all-Proto clusters in direct contravention of doctrine? Or did Protos replace one of the other unit types in the standard cluster structure; and if so, did they replace the Elemental trinary, one of the 'Mech trinaries, or at the star level within several different trinaries?
The reason I'm asking is that eventually -- no time soon, sad to say -- I want to build an entire Spirit Cluster, and I'd like to include Protos but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to fit them into the TO&E.
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So moving on to a new topic, here's a question that's been bugging me for a while. So the Spirits rigidly adhere to a very specific unit structure, but where do the ProtoMechs fit in? Did they create all-Proto clusters in direct contravention of doctrine? Or did Protos replace one of the other unit types in the standard cluster structure; and if so, did they replace the Elemental trinary, one of the 'Mech trinaries, or at the star level within several different trinaries?
The reason I'm asking is that eventually -- no time soon, sad to say -- I want to build an entire Spirit Cluster, and I'd like to include Protos but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to fit them into the TO&E.
Their economic position was probably such that there was no standardized way to include Protos. (and that they died so soon after adopting protos that there wasn't time for a doctrine to arise organically)
I like to think that they saw it themselves as going from "We're the only ones still doing TO&E's right" to "You know what, SCREW YOU GUYS.. if you're going to deviate from Kerensky's vision, we'll show you how to do it RIGHT!"
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Basically they replaced Battlemechs on a point for point basis (1 battlemech = 5 Protomechs) and deployed at least one cluster entirely made out of Protomechs (assuming three trinaries worth being 75 Protomechs) in the mid-late stages of the Wars of Reaving.
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If fiction by Randal is canon, then they also fielded mixed 'mech and protomech trinaries.
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They made whole Galaxys of just Protomechs, glorious whole Galaxys!
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So moving on to a new topic, here's a question that's been bugging me for a while. So the Spirits rigidly adhere to a very specific unit structure, but where do the ProtoMechs fit in? Did they create all-Proto clusters in direct contravention of doctrine? Or did Protos replace one of the other unit types in the standard cluster structure; and if so, did they replace the Elemental trinary, one of the 'Mech trinaries, or at the star level within several different trinaries?
The reason I'm asking is that eventually -- no time soon, sad to say -- I want to build an entire Spirit Cluster, and I'd like to include Protos but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to fit them into the TO&E.
Using some scenarios that used to pop up on BattleCorps? It seems they would replace 'Mechs with them. Sometimes, it might be a whole star of Protomechs, others it might be Protomechs mixed in with 'mechs
in a Star. It seemed the commanders would fill a niche or hole in their unit with Protomechs.
I mean, my own Blood Spirit persona is a mentally unstable(read: nearly psychotic, and definitely
psychopathic) Minotaur pilot who basicly wins by out hating the Adders! (Seriously..the sheet
actually has the Adders having a bloodmark on Star Captain Mara), and her Trinary has 1 star
of Protomechs, and then a point of Sirens attached to a star with a Bowman in it...makes perfect
sense to have a fast spotter attached to the star of an artillery unit..and a point of Sirens is a
little harder to kill than other Clan Light 'Mechs.
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Hmmm. I had figured they'd replace an Elemental trinary because like Elementals, they're organized five to a Point. That being said, replacing 'Mechs with Protos makes just as much sense. . . which is why I asked in the first place. Good replies though, thanks.
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I made an error in my earlier counting. A Trinary composed of purely Protomechs would be 75 Protomechs while three Trinaries composed of Protomechs would be of course 225. And I meant, they had at least one Galaxy of Protomechs. I don't recall multiple ones but I'll have to read up on Wars of Reaving again to get everything straightened out in my head. Keep in mind, that Protomechs despite their five to a point organization they are treated as small Battlemechs in some ways and as Battlearmor in others - basically getting the best advantages of both. They don't all have to be the same model, and operate independently of each other but for purposes of Zellbrigen are considered "together" for purposes of being able to legally target the same unit.
In my own epic Blood Spirit campaign, there were considerable changes to the Clans Touman as a result of integrating Aerospace Fighters from the Naval Reserve into Clusters and of course the introduction of Protomechs. Each Cluster adopted a Trinary of Aerospace Fighters and when Protomechs became available there was considerable dislocation of Battlemechs from regular formations. Eventually, the Blood Spirits iron clad Cluster formation doctrine morphed into a more flexible one and steadily grew more and more permissive until several setbacks forced a drawback on some but not all of that flexibility. For example, by the early late stages - some Clusters dropped the classic or the new expanded Cluster format in favor of completely integrated Trinaries/Binaries and that caused such a logistics and transport problem that the greater part of an entire Galaxy was lost due to be spread far too thinly amongst it's abnormally large number of (older) transports that when it got involved in a confrontation, it was picked apart in detail. After that event, the Clan leadership backtracked considerably - still allot more flexible than canon Blood Spirits but a far cry from the ever changing format the middle of the game to early late stage was.
A few of the noteworthy formations:
A) The Pulsar - which was a modified Nova exchanging Protomechs for the Elementals so it'd be five Mechs + ten Protomechs (all with magclamps) - they tended to be light/medium Mechs designed for speed while the Protomechs they carried were of a fire support variety.
B) The Blackhole - which was another modified Nova with three Mechs & ten Protomechs plus fifteen Elementals. The Mechs tend to be heavy/assault in weight with the Protomechs split between a point of fast/recon models and a point of super-heavies.
C) The Quasar - a modified Supernova with two Stars. A Command Nova of two Mechs (2P), five Protomechs, two aerospace (1P) & two Vees (1P) + twenty-five Elementals. The other Nova would be either a regular Nova of Five Mechs + Twenty-Five Elementals or a Support Nova (used incredibly loosely here!) of one Mech (1P), four Vees (2P) and either Forty to fifty Conventional Infantry (2p) + twenty-five Elementals or 10 Elementals (2P)+ hundred to a hundred and twenty-five Conventional Infantry. The Command Nova would be most heavy/assault while if they had a normal Noval attached, that'd be medium/heavy while the Support Nova was all over the place - some were light/medium with an emphasis on recon/cavalry and one was entirely assault weight designed to anchor a defensive position. Quasars were eventually adopted as Galaxy Commands and pulled out of use in Clusters themselves.
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I generally figured Protomechs were a five for one deal. Five proto's equal a single mech. Allow individual stars to have more numbers and more flexibility. I think during the WoR the Spirits had at least three Galaxys of proto's operating. I think the Coyotes at one point annihilated them but I can't remember and I'm 1300 miles from my books.
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I dont consider any of the Clans destroyed after Tukkayid. Dark Age and all that follows does not exist as far as I am concerned. The only reason Dark Age came about was because all the non-skilled players whined enough to Whiz Kids to get them killed off.
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Suuuuuure, that was the reason. ::)
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I don't think I'm following what you mean...
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Kirov's comment has as much to do with the actual situation as the idea of all the Clans destroying each other over whether Santa Claus exists or not. Also, "Whiz Kids," seriously? We're only missing a "Dork Age" to trifecta the misguided and uninformed hate.
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Kirov's comment has as much to do with the actual situation as the idea of all the Clans destroying each other over whether Santa Claus exists or not. Also, "Whiz Kids," seriously? We're only missing a "Dork Age" to trifecta the misguided and uninformed hate.
Would the Blood Spirits be pro- or anti-Santa?
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Anti, of course. The idea that there is some magical man who hands out factory-new OmniMechs to all the deserving little sibkin is obviously a ridiculous construct created by some scatter-brained surat (probably a savashri Burrock) to explain how the rich Clans got massive toumans while the Blood Spirits, so long neglected, just received a little coal in their stockings for not playing the stupid political games of the other Clans.
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I bet we'd say there was a Saint Nick, He would have been a highly respected Blood Spirit warrior who sought to foster cooperation and competition among all the clans in our quest to retake Terra... who was ambushed and killed by [which ever clan or clans first betrayed us].
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Would the Blood Spirits be pro- or anti-Santa?
The Spirits are obviously pro-Krampus.
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The Spirits are obviously pro-Krampus.
Now THAT I could get behind.
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Krampus is an omni Mech built by clan Grinch goat. It was designed and build along side of the Spirit's scientists.
Yup, we can get into that.
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Krampus is an omni Mech built by clan Grinch goat. It was designed and build along side of the Spirit's scientists.
Yup, we can get into that.
Krampus would be a better name for a Bandit Caste design I think. If TPTB ever looked in on the Homeworlds again that is.
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No way. Krampus is a heavy cav mech with overpowering short range weapons. Very mainstream.
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No way. Krampus is a heavy cav mech with overpowering short range weapons. Very mainstream.
Either way, a really good name for a design.
Though I kind of like the idea of the Krampus Protomech. Maybe something a resurgent and not dead Clan like the Blood Spirits would field in massive numbers when they returned and slaughter the hated Star Adders.
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So I was on IWM and was looking at Protomechs. Is it just me or are these a tad expensive now? I don't remember paying 3.30 per Proto before. And the Sprite is like 8 bucks apiece.
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Same with the Svartalfa... They are pretty big though.
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True, but I'm hesitant to buy any at that price. And I really want some too!
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OK ladies and gents need some advice. Keeping ask that don't I? I've been working on a Star of Alpha Galaxy for a while and I just got around to fininshing the third mech in it. So far it consists of a Woodsman, a Grendal, and a Stooping Hawk. Which leaves two mechs to be painted. And I have these four mechs laying about, A Hellhound, Timber Wolf, Blood Kite, and a Crossbow. Which ones do you think would work out well here?
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I think the Blood Kite and Crossbow fit best, my two kerenskies.
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Hellhound and the Crossbow.
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I'd probably say the Timber Wolf and Crossbow, just to be different :)
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You can never go wrong with a bloodkite and crossbow
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You can never go wrong with a bloodkite and crossbow
Especially the Streak SRM version of the Crossbow }:)
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Seems Crossbow is very popular. Its out and cleaned up. Just have to base and assemble it. I've vague plans for the Blood Kite though its a iconic design for the Spirits so it would fit but I also want to finally find a use for the Hellhound as well. Got it from Ral Partha so long ago and I kind of like the idea of them using a mech design other Clans avoid.
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It's a pretty good BA taxi too.
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Gonna go with Hellhound. Gonna have to wait tough a bit. Need desert yellow paint and I'm close to being out. Damn, isn't this always what happens?
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... Need desert yellow ... and I'm close to being out. Damn, isn't this always what happens?
Yes! Always! :D ... okay, just being jealously sarcastic because any and all of my artistic ability died back in 9th grade (simply because it was when I had Studio Art class which helped all of my art abilities ... while I was there, afterwards ... they faded all to quickly!)
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Gonna go with Hellhound. Gonna have to wait tough a bit. Need desert yellow paint and I'm close to being out. Damn, isn't this always what happens?
If you go with the Timber Wolf instead, in the future you'll be able to expand this Star into a Nova should you choose, with the x5 OmniMechs. All would be able to move at a pretty good clip, too, for some quick BA-seeding shenanigans.
I know BattleMechs in the Spirits would be fluffy, but you're going with Alpha, the cream of the crop, and where better other than the Blood Guard to run into all-Omni Stars? MMV.
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If you go with the Timber Wolf instead, in the future you'll be able to expand this Star into a Nova should you choose, with the x5 OmniMechs. All would be able to move at a pretty good clip, too, for some quick BA-seeding shenanigans.
I know BattleMechs in the Spirits would be fluffy, but you're going with Alpha, the cream of the crop, and where better other than the Blood Guard to run into all-Omni Stars? MMV.
I've already painted up a Blook guard Trinary. I'm now working on a Alpha Galaxy Trinary. The Timber Wolf and Blood Kite are slated for the Assault Star.
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I dont agree with the canon after Tukkayid. Far as I am concerned the timeline stopped there. Anything after was just the result of the IS players whining about how OP the clans were and Whiz idiots caving in to them
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Yes! Always! :D ... okay, just being jealously sarcastic because any and all of my artistic ability died back in 9th grade (simply because it was when I had Studio Art class which helped all of my art abilities ... while I was there, afterwards ... they faded all to quickly!)
Actually I just like to paint. Playing the game is almost secondary to that. I mean really, when will I ever need three painted crossbows? But I have them.
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I dont agree with the canon after Tukkayid. Far as I am concerned the timeline stopped there. Anything after was just the result of the IS players whining about how OP the clans were and Whiz idiots caving in to them
Question for you, does "Whiz idiots" refer to WizKids and their time running the IP? If so you should realize that they only took over for the Jihad, so everything post Tukayyid and pre-Jihad was done by someone else. And even then, the Jihad was in the planning stages already, when WizKids took over they just made the Jihad bigger & longer than initially planned.
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The lead up to the Jihad was set up in the novels years before FASA closed there doors. Its kind of sad really, the last thing we get in the old novels was a reborn Star League, The Federated Suns and Lyran Alliance separate again and under better managment and the first real hints that Thomas Marik was still out there and stealing WoB funds.
Then we got the Dark Ages and the first story we get is the 'Mech in a grain silo' story.
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Well started a new campaign recently and my Murder Hobos as part of Clan Ghost Bear took on the opfor for the mission, tje Blood Spirits. Sadly I got demolished with the bulk of my damage done against a Marauder IIC by my Crossbow. Including one volley of a full twenty LRM's. Sadly soon after the Crossbow died a very bad death.
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Back after a while away. If this was covered before could you point me to where but any ideas on what ship design the carmine justice the old spirit flagship was?
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So while I would love the carmine justice to have been a mckenna or a Texas do we actually know what it was?
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As far as I know, there's only the name.
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I always figured it was a Cameron or another Black Lion.
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Its a B-10. ;)
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist :) )
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LOL the are pretty Klingony in their way arent they?
So after reading the FM Crusader Clans again the Spirits actually lost two warship during the Absorption...
So totally Going off the “ rule of cool” I would like the two destroyed ships to be a Sovettskii Soyez and a Texas HOWEVER what do you all think would be more likely? An
Essex and a Mkenna? For that matter if you had two empty slots to fill in a Spirit Navy what would you choose and why?
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All the known Texas class ships are accounted for I think that Kerensky brought. I doubt a McKenna wouldn't have been traded to the Snow Ravens. I'm guessing a Cameron and a Sovitski Soyuz.
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I will need a Cameron for my Hells Horses fleet so I think I will go Mckenna.
BTW I have only seen very poor res picts of the Blood Spirit and its " bare metal" paint scheme does anyone have any images you can share?
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They look like bare metal...
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As in just bare metal only? No highlights or red stripes or anything?
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De nada, all bare metal. In space rust isn't a factor.
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Anybody know of any point the Blood Spirits may have fought side by side with the Hells Horses during the War of Reavings, particularly against the Society?
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Doubtful, since they're a hated enemy.
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Anybody know of any point the Blood Spirits may have fought side by side with the Hells Horses during the War of Reavings, particularly against the Society?
Page 133 of the Wars of Reaving has the Blood Spirits, some Fire Mandrills and the remnants of the Hell's Horses (A Cluster consisting of a Trinary of Mechs and 2 Trinaries of armed civilians) fighting against Coyote forces on Niles.
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Page 133 of the Wars of Reaving has the Blood Spirits, some Fire Mandrills and the remnants of the Hell's Horses (A Cluster consisting of a Trinary of Mechs and 2 Trinaries of armed civilians) fighting against Coyote forces on Niles.
thank you.
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I am building up my spirits navy and airforce. As aerofighters are used as needed are they also painted bare metal like their warships?
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I am building up my spirits navy and airforce. As aerofighters are used as needed are they also painted bare metal like their warships?
Not an expert on the Spirits, but artwork appears to support either a bare metal look or something similar to the Blood Guard Keshik: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/RsAT2-cover_150.jpg (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/RsAT2-cover_150.jpg)
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Not an expert on the Spirits, but artwork appears to support either a bare metal look or something similar to the Blood Guard Keshik: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/RsAT2-cover_150.jpg (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/9/9c/RsAT2-cover_150.jpg)
Aerospace fighters are part of the Naval Reserve so they are painted like the warships. Bare steel or at most a primer. I can see the pilots though adding details if they can scrounge the paint or if the Galaxy there attached wants them painted.
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Aerospace fighters are part of the Naval Reserve so they are painted like the warships. Bare steel or at most a primer. I can see the pilots though adding details if they can scrounge the paint or if the Galaxy there attached wants them painted.
Kinda what I figured, but that red stripe on the Chaeronea had me second guessing.
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Well guess they will be "painted" as soon as they are assembled...
I may throw some red on them though.
Does any one have aerospace picts of your own that I could see?
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Something you could do is paint 1 red stripe for the Star Commander and add more red stripes for each point. You know, Red 1, Red 2, Red 3...Red 5.
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Due to their lack new tech I am surprised that the Spirits don't have more IIC units under their belts. Am I wrong about this I know they have some great models like the Highlander IIC etc but I would imagine they would be IIC'ing any thing they could get their hands on.
As I am building up my aerospace arm currently I picked this guy up:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gotha
I like my Spirit stuff to be the tested to extreme/very reliable old tech but I would love to see a IIC version. Can any one else suggest other units that the Spirits would likely use?
For example I would like to include a Woodsman and a Pulverizer both rare/extinct mechs but I would imagine if any would have dusted off something and kept it going it would be the Spirits...
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What do you mean, don't have more IIc stuff? They have access to almost all of them.
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Ah sorry should have been more precise IIC aerofighters do the spirits have a lot of those?
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Here you go.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction
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Due to their lack new tech I am surprised that the Spirits don't have more IIC units under their belts. Am I wrong about this I know they have some great models like the Highlander IIC etc but I would imagine they would be IIC'ing any thing they could get their hands on.
As I am building up my aerospace arm currently I picked this guy up:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gotha
I like my Spirit stuff to be the tested to extreme/very reliable old tech but I would love to see a IIC version. Can any one else suggest other units that the Spirits would likely use?
For example I would like to include a Woodsman and a Pulverizer both rare/extinct mechs but I would imagine if any would have dusted off something and kept it going it would be the Spirits...
If anyone had a Woodsman it would be the Spirits. Pulverizer is a odd duck. It was a Not Named design but the history switches its use to the Snow Ravens after the Annihilation and the Snow Ravens did trade off older mech's to the Spirits in return for there warship fleet. A few Pulverizer's may have been traded. But I doubt they long survived being seen as a Dezgra design. If they do have any they would be in Garrison Stars. Not front line units.
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I am curious about the real combat experience level of the Spirit Touman as they jumped into the Burrock absorption? Due to their isolation wouldn’t most of their units be highly trained but almost totally lacking in real combat experience?
IIRC – several of the Galaxies that where wrecked had never been seen before their destruction?
In this vein due to their limited resources do the Spirits heavily utilize VR or other simulator tech for training?
Also I imagine their ground pounders could be very well drilled on the variety of terrain they held but for their ASF and Navy what training could be afforded to them?
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Probably constant training and they did train with live ammunition like every Clan did. We also know that they were raided on occasion and had a low grade war with the Burrocks that gave some experience. I know the Wolves actually had a Aerospace Pilot who was a former Blood Spirit as well so at one point before 3050 they raided the Spirits.
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I know the spirits used conventional infantry as defenders of York but did they also use them in an offensive role?
Due to their highwash out rate would many elementals be in the ranks?
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I know the spirits used conventional infantry as defenders of York but did they also use them in an offensive role?
Due to their highwash out rate would many elementals be in the ranks?
The Blood Spirits trained there civvies as a militia both to use as a last line of defense of there homeworlds but also as a morale thing. All Spirits are important and add to the strength of the Clan. So yes, washed out Elementals who end up in say the laborer caste would be in the ranks. I could even see them finding a place of being in charge of these militia units.
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I am curious about the real combat experience level of the Spirit Touman as they jumped into the Burrock absorption? Due to their isolation wouldn’t most of their units be highly trained but almost totally lacking in real combat experience?
IIRC – several of the Galaxies that where wrecked had never been seen before their destruction?
In this vein due to their limited resources do the Spirits heavily utilize VR or other simulator tech for training?
Also I imagine their ground pounders could be very well drilled on the variety of terrain they held but for their ASF and Navy what training could be afforded to them?
If you look at the experience level for the galaxies in Crusader clan, they're all at least veteran. The Spirits have the best pilots listen in all the books.
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Thanks Hengist - based I what I recall the Spirts tended to get involved in situations where even their awesome skills where not enough.
Sigh - what a waste!
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The Blood Spirits trained there civvies as a militia both to use as a last line of defense of there homeworlds but also as a morale thing.
So I wonder would the 3rd line troops ( the trained civvies) use this bad boy? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rotunda
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If they had them. Personally, I'd figure they used flatbed trucks with lrm launchers on them. But that's just me.
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Pick-up trucks with pulse laser cannons in them, shooting at Adder VTOLs as they are chased through junkyards.
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Pick-up trucks with pulse laser cannons in them, shooting at Adder VTOLs as they are chased through junkyards.
Nice Terminator reference.
If they had them. Personally, I'd figure they used flatbed trucks with lrm launchers on them. But that's just me.
Coming from a Flatbed driver?
So I wonder would the 3rd line troops ( the trained civvies) use this bad boy? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rotunda
I would think the Blood Spirits would have a few in Brian Caches but I doubt the Militia had any. They were generally in standard APC's at best or just PBI's at worst.
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As far as I know, there's only the name.
So I recognize this is just for fun but I did reach out and ask the developers about the Carmine Justice and the other Spirit Warship and here is their response:
Blood Spirit Navy
« on: 07 February 2017, 12:12:11 »
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Love that we have this tool as fans!
My question is:
Clan Blood Spirit lost two warships in the Burrock Absorption, including their flagship. However no info that I can find provides what class the destroyed ships were. Could you let me know what they were?
Also could they please be a:
Mckenna and Texas : ) ?
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Adrian Gideon
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Re: Blood Spirit Navy
« Reply #1 on: 07 February 2017, 23:38:01 »
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No information on the class of those two ships has been published. We may or may not see more information on the Burrock Absorption in the future.
You're welcome to use a Mckenna and Texas in your games in the meantime. :)
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I think all of the Texas Battleships have been accounted for that survived the War against Amaris.
Clan Coyote had theCCS Ancestral Home, Clan Jade Falcon had the CJF Falcon's Nest, Clan Smoke Jaguar
had the CSJ Veiled Huntress, Clan Snow Raven had the CSR Mountbatton, Clan Wolf had the CWS Nicholas Kerensky, Clan Wolverine stole the SLS Bismark from a cache, and the SLS Prinz Eugen was the Clan Prison Ship.
Meanwhile eighteen Mckennas went on the Exodus and we only have names for eight of them.The Clan Flagship SLS McKenna's Pride, Clan Ice Hellion had the CIH Cage's Pride, Clan Cloud Cobra had the CCS Second Coming, Clan Smoke Jaguar had the CSJ Obsidian, Clan Snow Raven had the CSR James McKenna, Clan Star Adder had the CSA Sovereign Right, Clan Wolf-in-Exile operated the CWS Werewolf (i still can't believe they lost it!),Escórpion Imperio still has the Lei Kung.
So I think its entirely possible the Blood Spirits kept a Mckenna for themselves when they gave there warship fleet to the Snow Ravens in Trade.
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Hey I'll take it!
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Hey I'll take it!
There is also one other contender for a Battleship that Blood Spirits could have had as a Flagship. The last one anyone would think of. The Monsoon. At least one went on the Exodus along with all the other ships. I'm guessing one of several that had belonged to the RWR Fleet as the Terran Hegemony had decommissioned or sold off all of there's and unless one of the Successor States gave up there's which I doubt.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Monsoon
Big enough that it would be a fine flagship, old enough that other Clans wouldn't desire it overly enough, and most importantly probably not something the Snow Ravens would have desired during there trade of ships for mechs that happened. I considered the Farragut but I don't think any remained in commission or went along with the Exodus Fleet.
Bottom of the page has a picture of it.
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I was flipping through War of Reaving and noticed someting, or noticed two somethings. One was Beta Galaxy was reformed at the end of the WoR (and we don't have a camo scheme for it yet) and that the Blood Spirits had four Galaxys to the Coyotes two Galaxys. Both of there Toumans were gutted to varying degree's. I wonder why the Blood Spirits hadn't dissolved the Beta Galaxy to shore up the other three? Was two clusters really all that impressive of a Galaxy?
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I was flipping through War of Reaving and noticed someting, or noticed two somethings. One was Beta Galaxy was reformed at the end of the WoR (and we don't have a camo scheme for it yet) and that the Blood Spirits had four Galaxys to the Coyotes two Galaxys. Both of there Toumans were gutted to varying degree's. I wonder why the Blood Spirits hadn't dissolved the Beta Galaxy to shore up the other three? Was two clusters really all that impressive of a Galaxy?
The explanation is actually quite simple. Like a cat puffing itself up to make itself seem larger, the Blood Spirits was trying to make its Touman seem larger than it actually was. Given their secretive nature the other Clans could only guess how strong each galaxy/cluster actually was. The Coyotes didn't have that option after their defeat since everybody else already knew their strength since their post-defeat trials/reavings were carefully monitored by the Grand Council.
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Pick-up trucks with pulse laser cannons in them, shooting at Adder VTOLs as they are chased through junkyards.
Nice scenario for after the Scouring of York ...
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Nice scenario for after the Scouring of York ...
I don't think York had a Atmosphere after the scouring. Which is a shame as York was one of the few 100% viable for human habitation worlds the Clans had access to.
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They could rebuild it so folks could move to New York. I suspect the real estate might be expensive, though.
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They could rebuild it so folks could move to New York. I suspect the real estate might be expensive, though.
Kit, that joke is horrible and so are you for making it. O0
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The reality is that the Vipers weren't responsible for scouring York, it was an ancient recording of my jokes that was uncovered.
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The reality is that the Vipers weren't responsible for scouring York, it was an ancient recording of my jokes that was uncovered.
Well true, too bad its the Adders that got the blame!
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Do we think that all of the Spirits Brian Caches had by 3060 all been tapped out? I was wondering:
If they could/did trial for old caches with SLDF stuff - I mean I love the spirits because they can use SLDF royal mechs but I would like to see even more IC upgrades. Pillager IIC anyone?
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They dug up enough mechs to outfit the Dragoons a few decades earlier so there is a good possibility they tapped out all the caches outfitting them.
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Aren't all caches controlled by certain clans?
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If its in there territory its controlled by that Clan from what I understand. Problem was many of the caches were forgotten or lost after the Pentagon Civil War and even the Clans on occasion stumble across ones they didn't know about.
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They dug up enough mechs to outfit the Dragoons a few decades earlier so there is a good possibility they tapped out all the caches outfitting them.
As far as I am aware only Clan Wolf caches were used to equip the Dragoons (offers of assistance by other Clans were declined) and Vlad opened up their remaining caches to replace losses suffered during the Refusal War.
Do we think that all of the Spirits Brian Caches had by 3060 all been tapped out? I was wondering:
Yes. Well to be precise any known Brian Caches would have been tapped out. Any military equipment found in a newly discovered Brian Caches would have been immediately reactivated to replace combat losses. After all they were constantly short of military equipment and sold off most of their fleet to the Snow Ravens to secretly create the additional forces they needed to have any chance in participating in the invasion of the Inner Sphere.
Could they have discovered additional Brian Caches after 3060?
Yes. Highly unlikely but they may have discovered in their territory or their new (re)acquisitions.
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So they could have trialed for old caches the nova cats, bears and jags left behind? I imagine that could have been a way they could have bulked up their forces. In particular old SL or Klondike era aerofighters.... With the mech as king mindset I would think that as soon as a new flashy aerofighter came online the old stuff just got cached
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Question about the 3060 era blood guard keshik. Was that a pure battle mech cluster?
On camospecs in the post 3060 era it is shown to be a mixed unit. If any one has attempted the paint scheme I would like to see your efforts!
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Question about the 3060 era blood guard keshik. Was that a pure battle mech cluster?
On camospecs in the post 3060 era it is shown to be a mixed unit. If any one has attempted the paint scheme I would like to see your efforts!
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I have a Trinary of the BloodGuard Keshik painted up. I will post it when I get a chance.
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Question about the 3060 era blood guard keshik. Was that a pure battle mech cluster?
On camospecs in the post 3060 era it is shown to be a mixed unit. If any one has attempted the paint scheme I would like to see your efforts!
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It follows the exact same pattern as everyone other Blood Spirit Cluster - 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Elemental Trinary and 1 Vee Trinary.
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So they could have trialed for old caches the nova cats, bears and jags left behind? I imagine that could have been a way they could have bulked up their forces. In particular old SL or Klondike era aerofighters.... With the mech as king mindset I would think that as soon as a new flashy aerofighter came online the old stuff just got cached
They could have but it likely wouldn't have been worth it given that practically everybody was fighting over their territory. What good is being able to claim a Trinary's worth of mothballed SL equipment if you lose a Trinary's worth of Clan-tech equipment plus some warriors?
A lot of the most brutal fighting was over Nova Cat territory (first to expel the abjured Clan then to lay claim to their territory). The Ghost Bears had plenty of time to remove the most valuable equipment in their caches during their multi-year exodus to the IS and they gave their territory to two of the three Clans that the Blood Spirits were on relatively good terms with, the Snow Ravens and Diamond Sharks, and the Spriits would have been reluctant to attack either Clan. Finally the Jaguars likely didn't have much remaining in their caches even before the Invasion (their lack of resources was a major reason why they pushed so hard for the invasion in the first place) and likely emptied most of the remaining machines in their effort to rebuild after Tukayyid.
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Good points arcangel thanks! This is why in my time line I am having the spirits intervene in the jag annilation instead
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It follows the exact same pattern as everyone other Blood Spirit Cluster - 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Elemental Trinary and 1 Vee Trinary.
I've always assumed the same, but I will add that FM:CC states that the Cluster consists "entirely" of heavy and assault 'Mechs. I can see that passage going either way: maybe its 'Mech complement is all big 'Mechs, or maybe every trinary is all big 'Mechs.
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Hmmm with the spirits always being so resource strapped do you think they would have sunk some much into one unit ( if it was all mech) what do you all think? I mean that is a BIG hammer...
As far as I know in Cannon however they never really got a chance to shine...
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Someone has to be the Pittsburgh Pirates of the story.
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In the Burrock absorption a number of Spirit Galaxies were destroyed and I believe several were disbanded. Does any one have any homebrew paint schemes for the Spirits they would like to share?
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thought of the day;after the clan operation Klondike the Krenesky brothers decided to join the clans mainly clan Wolf.What if Andre survived and decided to join Clan Blood Spirit instead of Clan Wolf//??
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Andery? It be weird to hang out with the Wolves, fall in love with a Coyote and join the Spirits. But given his relationship with his brother I doubt there would be much of a change. They weren't exactly very tight.
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In a way I almost think the Spirits were originally meant to be the Kerensky Clan. They weren't named after a animal but a ideal, a ideal Nicholas wanted to perpetuate.
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Whoa that would have been a difference! Not be a hater but didn't nick set the spirits up to fail? I mean for a society based on might makes right the spirits orginal giving nature seemed to go against the grain
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Yeah, the espirit de corps ends up going contrary to actual clan practice. I think the Spirits should have been some sort of honor clan, accepting applicants from any clan and expected to protect certain sites, ideals, and other rituals. Perhaps some sort of Clan Honor Police, or the expected role of that. Sure, they'd end up with many of the same issues, but hopefully will have been more resilient.
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Due to the constant battles against the adders I would assume the sprits would have access to the corona battle armor? Is a good tactic to use them with lighter omnis which can taxi them to a good sniping spot?
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Well finished the landing struts literally hours before my flight leaves. I decided to paint them in gunmetal with the cables a dark grey that way there not the same color as the mostly metal hull. A decal was made and is ready of the Blood Spirit Logo that is almost perfect. Here is hoping when the time comes I can but it on straight, I never have much luck with decals. When I get home I plan to start painting the Hull of the Overlord IIc with a mix of steel paint with spots of silver and tin to break up the all steel hull. Still thinking of names to use though, Blood Eagle is in the lead, a buddy of mine suggested Blood Knight and Caliburn.
Did you finish this up would be curious to see it?
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Looks like that pic didn't survive the downtime the forums had.
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The Star Adders stole it.
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The Star Adders stole it.
Eh, it was slightly too big anyway and I couldn't figure out how to shrink it down anymore.
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The Star Adders stole it.
So you lost a Trial of Position then.
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So you lost a Trial of Position then.
The Forums lost a Trial of, wait Position? Possession. That's what they lost!
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Shall we declare a Trial of Refusal then?
;)
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Pre Burrock absorption when the spirits were deeply isolated how would a warrior gain enough renown to warranty a blood name? I they did something of course but I don't know what
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There were still limited trials against other Clans, especially the Burrocks. Would also have been raids by the bandit caste to fend off, or bandits to track down. So still opportunity to earn a name.
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use your ilchi (is that the right term) to go visit a 'friendly' clan and jump in a couple of raids against their targets.
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When the adders were putting the squeeze on the spirits did the spirits resort to ambush and dirty tricks as they had in the past or did they maintain zell until the end was right there
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When the adders were putting the squeeze on the spirits did the spirits resort to ambush and dirty tricks as they had in the past or did they maintain zell until the end was right there
When it came to defending there Homeworlds, everything was on the table.
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When it came to defending there Homeworlds, everything was on the table.
Which, ironically, lead to their Annihilation
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Which, ironically, lead to their Annihilation
Sadly, yes. The real sad part is they told everyone that for decades before the WoR. Nobody paid attention.
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Sadly, yes. The real sad part is they told everyone that for decades before the WoR. Nobody paid attention.
By the end, particularly the Star Adders, nobody cared. In fact the Star Adders welcomed any excuse to claim the Spirits were dezgra and unworthy of honorable combat, permitting them to further tear into their rivals without mercy without having to worry about granting Spirit warriors an honorable death.
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I recall that the spirit touman eventually became more and more protomech heavy right? Did that also transfer over to their breeding program? Did they open more proto/aerospace bloodlines to meet demand?
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The Spirits were the ones that made the major advancements/developed the ProtoMech phenotype as its own class separate from aerospace.
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The Spirits were the ones that made the major advancements/developed the ProtoMech phenotype as its own class separate from aerospace.
But did that also equal a decrease in other phenotype breeding?
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I don't think so. They just created more Sibko's overall. Though with the size of there aerospace they probably just replaced the sibko's there.
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What Sprite Bloodlines also became proto bloodlines? Were they always aerospace bloodlines?
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I don't think we ever find out if they used just aerospace or added in mechwarrior bloodlines.
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The primary source of bloodlines were aerospace due to them being bred with a smaller stature and quicker reflexes and just as aerospace bloodlines continue to be a source for protomech pilots, protomech bloodlines also a source for new aerospace pilots. Some may have come from bloodhouses categorized as 'General' or even 'MechWarrior' and 'Elemental' as bloodlines categorized as MechWarrior or Elemental are primarily focused on producing that type of warrior but many also maintain lines in fields other than their focus ie a MechWarrior bloodhouse producing elementals or fighter pilots.
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When the spirits totally isolated themselves on York do we think they also built fixed defenses? Where there any cast brian analogs on York?
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Depends. Castle Brian analogs? Unlikely, if there were any on York they were more than likely to have been built by the SLDF-in-Exile before the formation of the Clans. Military facilities with fixed defenses? Possibly especially after the Star Adders invaded in the form of forward operating bases.
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Depends. Castle Brian analogs? Unlikely, if there were any on York they were more than likely to have been built by the SLDF-in-Exile before the formation of the Clans. Military facilities with fixed defenses? Possibly especially after the Star Adders invaded in the form of forward operating bases.
It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't have built fixed defenses once they went to the ends of arming their lower castes as another line of defense. Not sure tho on the chronology if that occurred on York or only after that.
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It's hard to imagine that they wouldn't have built fixed defenses once they went to the ends of arming their lower castes as another line of defense. Not sure tho on the chronology if that occurred on York or only after that.
Right? FMCC implied that at least on york all bets were off for the sprits they would do anything to defend it
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I don't think there's ever been mention of a Blood Spirit SDS. I don't recall seeing one in WoR, though its possible to overlook something. So its sort of up iin the air, what works for you game kind of thing.
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I have questions about the Blood Guard Keshik under their tactics it says:
The Blood Guards are equipped with heavy and assault class units, allowing them to engage the enemy in a massive charge. This berserk charge would be disastrous if attempted by other units, but the Guards skill and equipment generally allows them to succeed
So what does actually translate to? I would think they are then made up of zombie mechs which excel at mid to short range fights. Would they also have units that have jump jets and or MASC to close quickly?
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Jump Jets are a given though not MASC as they would want there gear to all advance as a wall rather than piecemeal. The Keshik used the best warriors available as well, so staying up and hitting would be paramount so I would expect Targeting Computers also to be in use in may mechs as well. Probably more Omnis than normal as well.
As for York, its almost a guarantee the Spirits would have built dug in bases for there industrial and military bases. No where near a Castle Brian but probably more like NORAD or Hesperus II with smaller fixed defenses. I could also see the Spirits putting in plenty of bunkers for there civilian castes for when the Adders came calling.
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Is that why the adders did the orbital bombardment at the end? Was york to built up?
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There's nothing in the documentation that suggests York had exceptional static defenses. The Star Adders laid waste to York because they had had enough with the Blood Spirits. That they showed up again later and did the same thing to the Blood Spirits last refuge is no surprise.
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Even a full planetary bombardment probably didn't outright kill the Spirits though, it destroyed the environment so the planet couldn't easily support life for the short term and would eventually kill off the biosphere. Essentially putting the planet into a Nuclear Winter. Which was a huge waste as York was one of the few livable planets in the Homeworlds. In enough time York (a few hundred years?) could probably be resettled and there was probably surviving industry on the planet that would 'belong' to the Star Adders. Unless the Spirits had built deep underground shelters though I doubt there were many survivors though shortly after the bombardment I could see the Spirits going from York to the Colleen system with what survivors and materials they could salvage. They may even have returned at a later date and set up a hostile environment base there.
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The Wars of Reaving were not exactly a time of long-term planning.
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The Wars of Reaving were not exactly a time of long-term planning.
So very Clan.
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Nuclear Winter, I bid a Star of OmniMechs for possession of York. What do you defend it with?
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Nuclear Winter, I bid a Star of OmniMechs for possession of York. What do you defend it with?
Nuclear Winter: I counter with darkness and cold and dying vegatation and the smell of dead amphibians.
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Don't forget merciless howling winds.
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Don't forget merciless howling winds.
That gets old real fast.
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Wow, stopped in to blow the dust off and double check the lights were on. Plus to note the Blood Spirits still live! Any fellow Spirits still floating about?
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We're still around.
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We're still around.
Can't keep the best Clan down. Or off the furniture.
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I’m harder to get rid of than cockroaches. :)
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Hence the need for orbital bombardment...
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Wow, stopped in to blow the dust off and double check the lights were on. Plus to note the Blood Spirits still live! Any fellow Spirits still floating about?
Present for duty!
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Wow, stopped in to blow the dust off and double check the lights were on. Plus to note the Blood Spirits still live! Any fellow Spirits still floating about?
Well, the ones that the Adders caught in space....
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Well, the ones that the Adders caught in space....
Them we will be hazards to navigation!
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Anyone know what Jumpship classes our Clan used?
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KF Drives 100, Misjumps and You 103 (elective), and Zero-G PE (mandatory each semester) >:D
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Anyone know what Jumpship classes our Clan used?
I'd assume the generic Clan JumpShips. Considering their lack of resource, I'd expect older ones as well, but probably nothing to really set them apart from anyone else..
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But what are the most common Clan jumpships? I could tell you Inner Sphere but never looked at Clan logistics until now.
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Well, the MUL states that there are Clans versions of the common JumpShips (Scout, Merchant, Invader, Monolith, Star Lord), though those are Clan in name only I think (maybe some weapon swaps, but its not like there would be much difference between a Clan Scout and a regular Scout).
The Star League-era Tramp also shows up on the MUL, while the Clan Hunter, Odyssey and Comitatus are around as well, but probably not as common.
Here is what the MUL states (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasRole=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Role=None+Selected&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=85&Factions=2&SubTypes=86)
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But what are the most common Clan jumpships? I could tell you Inner Sphere but never looked at Clan logistics until now.
Simply put, there's not enough information to give you a concrete answer.
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Anyone know what Jumpship classes our Clan used?
Rusty ones ... ;)
Common Clans as to Clan variants of Scout, Merchant, Invader.
I doubt that they had filded many of new Clanbuilt designs, they could not afford them them.
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Rusty ones ... ;)
Common Clans as to Clan variants of Scout, Merchant, Invader.
I doubt that they had filded many of new Clanbuilt designs, they could not afford them them.
Thank you.
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Odyssey replaced the Invader, and the others are more SL vintage...
TT
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Thank you, I'm planning on adding some jumpships to my small Blood Spirit Fleet.
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May I respectfully suggest this little one?
2x Hunter
3x Odyssey
and 2 Titan Monitors...
Allows instant, or near instant HPG messaging and the the fleet could jump in or out at will.
TT
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Thank you, I'm planning on adding some jumpships to my small Blood Spirit Fleet.
Please post pictures I am curious how you made all that bare metal look good
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Please post pictures I am curious how you made all that bare metal look good
If you look back, I've already done the Blood Spirit Warships.
Bad pic, and from 2011 but...
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=110.1140
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Next game I'm running is the Fall of Lovell. The Star Adders attack on the Blood Spirits after the WoR. Here is hoping I can do a better job than we actually did!
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:drool:
Pics or it didn't happen!
TT
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On the 1st. I will have pics. I'm even working on a new Star of Alpha Galaxy light Mechs for the game. Already finished a Mandrill, Vixen, and Piranha and just assembled a Adder (would a Cougar be better?) and Crimson Hawk.
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On the 1st. I will have pics. I'm even working on a new Star of Alpha Galaxy light Mechs for the game. Already finished a Mandrill, Vixen, and Piranha and just assembled a Adder (would a Cougar be better?) and Crimson Hawk.
What Omni Letter / Numbers your planning on running?
Also what year?
TT
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I am building up a campaign scenario where the spirits jump into defeat task force serpent and then absorb the jags. They could only use the forces on strana mechty what if any aerospace and fleet assets could they commit?
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If you're going with the canon forces available on Strana Mechty at that time, the Spirits would have had only the Blood Guard Keshik, the flagship Rocinante (Black Lion class), and whatever aerospace it carried - looks like 38 fighters.
As you're going AU, you may want to bump that up.
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If you're going with the canon forces available on Strana Mechty at that time, the Spirits would have had only the Blood Guard Keshik, the flagship Rocinante (Black Lion class), and whatever aerospace it carried - looks like 38 fighters.
As you're going AU, you may want to bump that up.
Thanks Jaim yes it would be AU.
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To clarify this would be in a sencario where the spirits had not interfered in the burrock absorption. So the spirits would have their original flagship ( I like to imagine it’s a McKenna or Texas)
Do all clans have a their flagships at strana mechty?
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I’m not even 100% that the Rocinante is stationed at Strana Mechty at that time. I’d assume it’s posted at York, considering that the Spirits had all but withdrawn from Clan society.
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What Omni Letter / Numbers your planning on running?
Well the Adder is the Prime version. Right now I haven't planned that far ahead. For the upcoming game I just match the BV there bringing.
Also what year?
TT
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Thanks Jaim yes it would be AU.
Yes, I noted that. The Blood Spirits, given their temperament, kept just the Keshik at Strana Mechty. So, because they wouldn't have more there, as most Clans don't have sizable forces on the capital, you'd need to draw them from elsewhere. Not a big deal, just a factor to consider.
To clarify this would be in a sencario where the spirits had not interfered in the burrock absorption. So the spirits would have their original flagship ( I like to imagine it’s a McKenna or Texas)
The Carmine Justice. Looked to see what class she was, but couldn't find anything.
Do all clans have a their flagships at strana mechty?
Generally not, but perhaps it was there for 'reasons'.
I’m not even 100% that the Rocinante is stationed at Strana Mechty at that time. I’d assume it’s posted at York, considering that the Spirits had all but withdrawn from Clan society.
This, although given the AU of not interfering in the Burrock absorption, the Spirits would be a touch more involved in Clan affairs than canon. Not much, but a bit.
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The force I would use would be the blood guard which is a pure Mech force but as a standard practice the aero arm of the spirits their naval reserve separate to be assigned at need so assuming the spirit khans were in the strana mechty system how much aero forces would they roll with?
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Also, bear in mind that if the Spirits hadn’t interfered in the Burrock Absorption, you’re looking at a much larger touman: the Blood Guard Keshik and Naval Reserve, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Kappa, Pi, and Omega Galaxies (FL), and Omicron, Sigma, Tau, Upsilon, Mu, and Rho Provisional Galaxies (SL).
The force I would use would be the blood guard which is a pure Mech force but as a standard practice the aero arm of the spirits their naval reserve separate to be assigned at need so assuming the spirit khans were in the strana mechty system how much aero forces would they roll with?
That’s entirely up to you, I suppose, as aerospace forces are attached on an as-needed basis.
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The Keshik had armor and Elementals attached. They just focused on the Mechs being heavy and assault.
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This thread, much like the Blood Spirits, has met its end.