"New" pewter mini's & rough surface textures

[Hythos]

Most of my collection is lead, with a very few old (pre-1996) Pewters.
I've recently bought a few new ('97 and later vintage) Pewter, and I've found the surface seems to be more rough than lead and old Pewter.  I'm wondering if this would be due to talc / mold-release?  I'd not expect the molds to have broken down to a point they'd be deteriorating / losing detail, so it must be release-powder.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has re-finished the surface of any mini by filing / sanding / polishing (or any other method), and how well it's turned out.

** Note - referring to authentic RP & IWM mini's, and not the reproductions "painted white" or otherwise being sold on Ebay.

[BlueNinja]

When I'm putting a mini together I use an exacto knife to cut off the mold lines, then I use a small metal file to rough out any changes to angles or flatten surfaces.  Finally I use one of those soft fine grit files designed for doing finger nails on surfaces that still need work.  Then prime and paint.
I usually find the surface really isn't bad after priming, a small amount of texture is ok in my eyes.

[manticore72]

I prefer pewter over lead when it comes to filing or scraping mold lines or flash from a mini. Lead is too easily damaged as it is softer.  Lead is a bit easier to cut through and bend though.
I use needle files, exacto knife, and fine sand paper to smooth things out. Also a brass wire brush can help polish metal minis. Emmery boards are useful too.
For hex bases I use use a larger flat file and sand paper to smooth out the sides and bottom.   

[klarg1]

I default to using files to clean the parts first. Occasionally, I will break out my dremmel and some form of polishing head to take it a step further. The catch is that while pewter can hold up to light polishing, lead cannot - you will remove detail very fast!

I also make use of very fine grit sand paper for exposed surfaces that are easy to reach. (400/800 grit) This can produce quite a nice finish.

If those steps don't clean it up, as is often the case for hard to reach recesses, you can paint over the metal with a surface layer. I use Reaper brush-on-sealer (not the gloss). It will cover up tiny imperfections quite well with one or two layers, leaving a smoother surface for paint. Other brush-on products may work similarly.

I hope that helps a bit. I apologize for the rambling style.

[worktroll]

I think all you're seeing is the difference between a new cast (of a harder metal) and an old cast of a softer metal, which has been dinged around over the years.

Yes, old lead minis do tend to look a little softer around the edges when stripped, but I just think that's wear and tear. I've never noticed any difference in the finish when the minis are primed and painted.

[Hythos]

Thanks guys;
Someone had mentioned there's a difference in Pewter used by IWM vs RP (whom used "Ralladium" alloy, if it's accurate); maybe IWM has a small amount of antimony&zinc for hardening/strengthening?

The surface-finish I'm referring are on the order of a √60 of the new stuff vs ~√32 on the old.  While it's VERY minor, the difference noticeable up close.
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_finish for more info, if interested).

[cavingjan]

I've seen a little bit of surface texture but once it has primer on it, it isn't noticable at all. It seems more like a visual surface grain than anything.

[JadeHellbringer]

I've seen a little bit of surface texture but once it has primer on it, it isn't noticable at all. It seems more like a visual surface grain than anything.

I'd back that. I was awfully worried about a Night Wolf I did recently due to the 'pitting' effect on the torso and arms of it, but once I had primer and paint on it, it's not noticeable at all.

[worktroll]

Could indeed be crystallisation patterns, visible at the surface. The longer a metal takes to cool, the greater the chance of crystallisation. Maybe that's the difference?

W.

[Schottenjaeger]

Ralladium was one of the first leadless alloys used in miniatures in the US, and the composition was proprietary. It had a much more noticeable "grain" to it than the modern alloys that IWM are using - to the point of "crunching" audibly when bent - and definitely used some kind of liquid mold release (initially yellow, oxidized down to brown).

I'm not sure what exactly is causing the surface difference, but I've actually noticed some changes in the surface roughness between different casting lots, and it seems to be even all over given model. If it were just mold release, it'd be uneven, so I'd wager it's some combination of slight metal composition variances, and leaving some models in the mold longer during batch-casting.

Regardless, any half-way decent primer will bring it down to the point that drybrushing doesn't catch it, so I'd not worry too much.

[Hythos]

Ralladium was one of the first leadless alloys used in miniatures in the US, and the composition was proprietary. It had a much more noticeable "grain" to it than the modern alloys that IWM are using - to the point of "crunching" audibly when bent - and definitely used some kind of liquid mold release (initially yellow, oxidized down to brown).
..

Ralidium being Sn95 and probably Zn3An2, will "crunch" because the harder crystalline structure of Zinc is physically 'breaking' inside the alloy.
Haven't found out (yet) what the old lead RP mini's were - possibly 90/10?

Just an interesting side-note about the microcrystalline structure of alloys... 
Metals have unique physical structures that allow for unique properties to embolden and improve in some fashion or another.
Using Titanium as an example; the crystalline structure has space around and within (like lattice work with open holes) that allow metals with smaller "molecules" to fit.  Despite being softer than Titanium, alloying with of a tiny amount of Aluminum & Vanadium will fill these spaces to make pure titanium more "rigid" (all properties change) and improve strength by 50% (depending on material specification & heat-treatment).
It's like adding a truss to a bridge, but Al & V are the 'just small enough stones' to prop up that bridge where other metals are too large to fit (hence, Aluminum-Iron, or Ferro-Aluminum alloy wouldn't really work since iron is too large to alloy aluminum, though Ferro-Fibers disbursed amidst the Aluminum may slightly improve tensile strength but would not affect shear strength or hardness).  LOL Or, think of the last time you ate an entire large pizza (or two) by yourself in one sitting, then had trouble bending over to untie your shoes ;)


These images are of different stress-phases of 6Al4V Titanium (Grade 5, that's most common in military application of Titanium). This phase depends on how the material is smelt & created, resulting in a varying degree of performance and properties.

[vidar]

Yup, aging or presipitate hardening are cool ways of changing a base metals porperties.  Nice picture, but I still think the carbon in iron salution is cooler. ;D

[Hythos]

Yup, aging or presipitate hardening are cool ways of changing a base metals porperties.  Nice picture, but I still think the carbon in iron salution is cooler. ;D

Absolutely!

And for a fun fact:
when tempering carbon-steels, the temperature of metal must be brought to an annealed (hot&softened) state with quenching taking place by placing the tip or edge into water or oil, which allows heat to flow from the metal into the liquid. This process alligns the carbon atoms into the direction of heat-flow, thus hardening/strengthening a tip or edge (like a chisel, sword, some hand-tools, etc), but weakening the cross-grain strength..

[worktroll]

And for a fun fact: ...  with quenching taking place by placing the tip or edge into water or oil

The DCMS prefers alternate, traditional methods ... ;)

[Hythos]

I've just thought about the possibility to 'sand down' the rough surface texture, if not on the bare mini, at least the primer.
Most  that I've done with different primers, will result in a rougher-looking surface.  I'm thinking that could be touched up with a 1000-grit sandpaper to knock down the roughness to polish it up to a gleaming surface, and all without effecting paint/primer efficiency...  They'll look plastic-y after it's done, but I think it might be worthwhile.