Aurigan Coalition weapon production.

[wanderer25]

The Periphery forum as been pretty quiet so I tough I would try to liven things up a bit .

What would be a reasonable set of weapons industries for a small poor multi-system state
like the Coalition. I remember the HBS forum thread on this went on for 9 pages, so this should be
good  for a few post.

I see at least  a small arms/support weapon/munition factory and a vehicle factory with APCs and jeeps on the side.

I'll make up a few proper fluff entries later if I see a reply or two on this topic
 
Here's a link to the original thread , it page 5 (of 9) where things got interesting.

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/2740?page=5

With  the source book out, we get a better perspective on what could be possible/reasonable.

Obviously mech factories are out but the Mechdur fluff mentions mech weapons and we know one factory makes armor.

Well? 

[Saint]

I'd say it's safe to assume they produce LRM 15s , SRM 4s , Medium Lasers and Machine Guns. There's no known trade deals for weapons systems so anything else should be through independent traders.

[glitterboy2098]

eh.. i wouldn't assume they can produce lasers. the SRM and LRM versions of those APC's could well be a case of "we don't have enough lasers, what else can we fit?"

Missiles and autocannon i can see, the tech for those is relatively simple compared to lasers. and MG's are really simple as well.

[Liam's Ghost]

I don't know if lasers would necessarily be harder to make than autocannons or missiles. They're all of equivalent tech level, and rapid fire tank class guns or tiny missiles literally made of explodium would both have their own technical issues.

That said, I can see the Aurigans not focusing on energy weapons just because they probably don't also have fusion technology, which means their vehicles aren't getting free heatsinks. It's harder to justify a medium laser when it, its heatsinks, and its power amplifier all demand more tonnage than an SRM 6 and its ammo. 

[glitterboy2098]

the level of infrastructure needed to produce them though would be different. they might have been introduced fairly close to each other and have the same tech level, but autocannons and missiles would mainly require metal working and chemistry infrastructure with a small amount of electronics infrastructure, which would be easy to set up especially since the same infrastructure would support a lot of basic civilian industries. but lasers and PPCs would require extensive and quite involved electronics industries, including a lot of industries that by all rights should also be able to produce components useable for things like fusion engines.

[Colt Ward]

They could also salvage a lot of weapons from Panzyr's SLDF wreckage.  We already know its a graveyard with treasure hunters

I think its pretty safe to say the two locations most likely to have industry for weapons would be Mechdur and Coromodir.  Mechdur will produce most everything though some of the more important processes or secret projects will be on Coromodir- perhaps even its industrial station.

Some known facts . . .
Mechdur is home to Aspero-Dinton Mining, who produces mech & vehicle armor at its plant on the orbital colony of Jeonsinim.  In the BTU only a few things have to be made in micro-G, what comes to mind for me is EndoSteel . . . so maybe its a old Star League era facility that can no longer make it, but can make armor.

Mechdur is where Gwendor-Dorwinion Cartel refurbished a maintenance slip for jumpships which is part of what makes that system a hub for traffic in the region.  GDC owns or has shares in several jumpships that ply the trade routes of the Coalition.  As it was a MoC based company before the 3SW, IMO it would be likely they also facilitate trade between the MoC and TC using the Coalition as a safe route with Mechdur as a regular stop.

Based on the military structure and comments on pg 25, I would think the AC could build (or mostly) Scorpions, Galleons, and LRM Carriers along with the mentioned APCs.  IMO they can also build regular infantry kit as well as anti-tank and man-portable heavy weapons for their infantry.  I would expect them to also build their own ammunition . . . and I think that would be on each world considering the formerly feudal nature of the AC.

[Daryk]

LRM Carriers, but not SRM Carriers?  ???

[Colt Ward]

*shrug* They are not mentioned . . . and IMO if I had to focus between LRM or SRM carriers, I am taking LRM Carriers- especially if as stated the infantry have heavy weapons.  The infantry will often times lack stand off weapons and LRM Carriers cover that issue.

Pre Directorate their defense IMO comes down to fixed fortifications, most old SL era relics they occupy even if they cannot get as much as the SL did from the positions.  Feudal battalions for each of the six core worlds, with the capital Coromodir having both the Arano & Espinosa battalions.  Each BN is likely 'overstrength' with a company to two companies of mechs, company of armor (Scorpions, Galleons & anything heavier), and a company or two of mechanized infantry traveling in those APCs with LRM Carriers attached to those formations.

To be honest, with the TC's funneling of support, I would expect the Epinosa battalion to have been at double strength and have the heavier armor contingent we get referenced- Demolishers, Manticores, and now since I have seen them appear in Espinosa heraldry, Gallants!  They probably also sent the SRM Carriers- or at least more than the AC already had . . . face it, Demolishers and SRM Carriers in the capital city would be a good way to wreck any of the Arano BN that got moving.

[Daryk]

I just find it curious given the large number of SRM Carriers I've seen in the HBS game.

[glitterboy2098]

They could also salvage a lot of weapons from Panzyr's SLDF wreckage.  We already know its a graveyard with treasure hunters

i don't think that such a site could sustain a large supply of such items though. that the people there are described as treasure hunters suggests that the area is pretty well stripped already, rather than a steady source of materials. i'm sure that the site was probably a valuable one early in the Reach's history (heck, might well be where they got much of the early military gear) i suspect that it doesn't have much value beyond general scrap metal by 3025.

I would think the AC could build (or mostly) Scorpions, Galleons, and LRM Carriers along with the mentioned APCs.  IMO they can also build regular infantry kit as well as anti-tank and man-portable heavy weapons for their infantry.  I would expect them to also build their own ammunition . . . and I think that would be on each world considering the formerly feudal nature of the AC.

i would assume Strikers rather than LRM/SRM carriers.. they seem to have a lot of those three vehicles in the game, especially early on when it is just the Reach's own forces involved, and there seem to be a lot of them in the surrounding periphery independent worlds, which would make sense if those worlds had been largely buying from the Reach. would also explain where the pirates got all of them as well, since they could steal them from the independents. though the Galleon's lasers probably would need to be imported.

and given the different houses seem to have different area of focus i'd not assume that all of them can produce everything.. rather, i'd assume that most of them can produce major common parts for maintenance and repair purposes and there are deals and agreements allowing the different houses to obtain the products from specialized factories held by specific houses.

[wanderer25]

They could also salvage a lot of weapons from Panzyr's SLDF wreckage.  We already know its a graveyard with treasure hunters

I think its pretty safe to say the two locations most likely to have industry for weapons would be Mechdur and Coromodir.  Mechdur will produce most everything though some of the more important processes or secret projects will be on Coromodir- perhaps even its industrial station.

The Guldra entry mentions they export Tractors and the planet does have an industrial rating of C  and output of B.
The same as Mechdur but with  a 10th of the population.  Still that's a population of 100+millions , more then enough
for a diverse industrial base.

Looking at the vehicle RAT, you only see Wheeled type APCs of various sizes.

The Scorpion is a fairly well spread and often copied design so I could see it being  produced locally.
The Galleon on the other hand runs into the same problem as the big APCs,  you need a source of lasers!

The MOC has a factory, the TC  two and the OA have Lushann. I think those would be the main
sources of import. The Galleon probably just get imported from the FWL.


 

[Colt Ward]

You do have the MG only version of the Galleon, but that is not the one we see in the game.  Oh yeah, another TC import would be the Bulldogs we saw- I knew I was forgetting a tank.

As far as LRM Carriers, it was explicitly put that way in the SB per the page I referenced.  I would agree the wheeled light missile support tank would make more sense than the 60t LRM Carrier but it was what was written.  We also did not see any of the variants of the Scorpion- ML, AC/2, LRM or SRM- to me a small faction can get a lot of bulk w/flexibility by producing Scorpions with alternate turret options.

[Starfury]

They natively produce the Vagyr and Sleipnir APCs (which are  really heavy and medium platoon to company size transports), and the descriptive text on Mechdur says it produces everything from consumer goods to Mech weapons.  Several of the other planets are heavy mining colonies or agricultural worlds, and  there is a lot ot stuff in Panzyr's orbit that could be reverse engineered, even at the basic 3025/Introtech level. I don't see lasers being any harder to make then large bore autocannons that have be stabilized on a bipedal chassis or missiles requiring a variety of speciality sized tubes in order to launch them.

Most likely they can produce any stock 3025 weapon,  other then large amounts of PPCs, and the Coalition buys, builds or salvages the simpler vehicles like LRM carriers, the APCs, and so on, while the newer equipment such as Devastators come from other nations of sources via trade or salvage.

So I see the following:  The AC can produce ICE equipped units with stock Introtech weapons and repair fusion powered ones, but have to buy/salvage fusion powered mechs and vehicles due to their lower tech base.

Missile and other weapons carriers, hovercraft, medium/heavy wheeled and tracked tanks (Hetzer, Bulldog AC), etc would dominate, and heavier designs would be relegated to line units supporting Mechs and the Royal Guard.

[Colt Ward]

Really?  B/c nowhere did I find that they naturally produced those specific APCs since we get no fluff.  It could be assumed as you did that they built them on Mechdur but we have nothing that specifically says that . . . they may simply refit them on that planet and buy the basic chassis from the MoC.

Personal preference would be Mechdur produces all ammo types, mech/veh std armor, internal structure, Scorpions, Strikers, Galleons, LRM Carriers, both APC types & pair of variants but imports lasers from MoC.

Scorpion LT
Scorpion (LRM)
Scorpion (SRM)
Striker (interesting since it came out in 3006)
Galleon 100 (maybe a 200?)
LRM Carrier
Sleipner pair
Vargr pair
AgroMechs

I think the Bulldog design would be their next goal for armor, ICE and you have options between LL, AC/2s and LRMs.

Import-
Bulldog
Manticore
SRM Carrier
Demolisher
Schrek PPC Carrier
Rotunda
Gallant

While we do not get hovers in the game, I have no problem with that being a quirk of the AC- dislike of hovers due to reliability with the following lack of infrastructure support.

[Daryk]

If they can make Scorpion (SRM) variants and LRM carriers, I see no reason they couldn't make SRM Carriers...  SRM-6s and 60-ton chassis are common...

[wanderer25]

You do have the MG only version of the Galleon, but that is not the one we see in the game.  Oh yeah, another TC import would be the Bulldogs we saw- I knew I was forgetting a tank.

As far as LRM Carriers, it was explicitly put that way in the SB per the page I referenced.  I would agree the wheeled light missile support tank would make more sense than the 60t LRM Carrier but it was what was written.  We also did not see any of the variants of the Scorpion- ML, AC/2, LRM or SRM- to me a small faction can get a lot of bulk w/flexibility by producing Scorpions with alternate turret options.

The RAT does list the Scorpion SRM.

[wanderer25]

Here is my 1st possible industry.

 Joe Moose Tractors
Main Plant Locations: Guldra
CEO: Joe Moose
 Main Products ( Agricultural division):  Tractors and Farm machinerie. Agro-mechs.
Main Products (Construction  division): Heavy machinery.
Main Products: (Military division): Wheeled APCs, Armor car type 1,
  Armor car type 2, Heavy Hover APC, Light hover tank type 1, Heavy wheeled APCs.

Profile:
       The type 1 armor car is a wheeled APC fitted with an SRM-4. The type 2 an Lrm-5 . The light hover tank is a Heavy Hover APC fitted with both an SRM-4 and LRM-5.   


I left out industrial mechs on purpose. That's for a Mechdur weapon produdcer in a later entry. Also an Automotive plant for Coromodir .

[Colt Ward]

You . . . know . . . a AgroMech is a IndustrialMech, just a specific type?  Its like saying 'Centurion' when talking about BattleMechs.

[wanderer25]

Here is my 1st possible industry.

 Joe Moose Tractors
Main Plant Locations: Guldra
CEO: Joe Moose
 Main Products ( Agricultural division):  Tractors and Farm machinerie. Agro-mechs.
Main Products (Construction  division): Heavy machinery.
Main Products: (Military division): Wheeled APCs, Armor car type 1,
  Armor car type 2, Heavy Hover APC, Light hover tank type 1, Heavy wheeled APCs.

Profile:
       The type 1 armor car is a wheeled APC fitted with an SRM-4. The type 2 an Lrm-5 . The light hover tank is a Heavy Hover APC fitted with both an SRM-4 and LRM-5.   


I left out industrial mechs on purpose. That's for a Mechdur weapon producer in a later entry. Also an Automotive plant for Coromodir .

[glitterboy2098]

is this from the PDF or your own creation to fill out namedrops?

[Colt Ward]

His own creation . . . and as much as I usually hate it when that sort of thing comes up . . . if you are going to just throw out random created stuff, it belongs in the fan-made area.  If you want to discuss 'did LRM Carriers mean that or Striker vehicles and do they build either one?' then that is the sort of topic for this area.

To be honest, I think it makes the AC a bit more interesting if they can build the hulls for Scorpions, Galleons & Strikers but have to import all the weapons from the MOC except MGs and say . . . LRM15s, which is what one of the APC mounts.  It keeps them a bit above some of the other places but not one the level of TC/MOC/MH/OA.

[Maingunnery]

What about having them build primitive vehicles (Support Vehicles), their industry should be able to support that and the performance loss isn't too great.

[Colt Ward]

Except . . . for combat, its not listed on the RATs or in the actual fluff about their military.  Limited mechs, nothing bigger than the Wolverine for line forces (specific exclusion of Royal Guards), primarily mechanized infantry with Scorpions, Galleons & LRM Carriers while infantry sport heavy weapons.  Now if you want to say House Decimius builds some thing like the Bailey Armored Car or Ibex for their personal use . . . sure I can go with that, but its not what the AC as a whole might produce for the national military.

[glitterboy2098]

His own creation . . . and as much as I usually hate it when that sort of thing comes up . . . if you are going to just throw out random created stuff, it belongs in the fan-made area.  If you want to discuss 'did LRM Carriers mean that or Striker vehicles and do they build either one?' then that is the sort of topic for this area.

To be honest, I think it makes the AC a bit more interesting if they can build the hulls for Scorpions, Galleons & Strikers but have to import all the weapons from the MOC except MGs and say . . . LRM15s, which is what one of the APC mounts.  It keeps them a bit above some of the other places but not one the level of TC/MOC/MH/OA.

if they can build SRM4's and LRM15's for those APC's, i could see an aurigan custom Striker variant using those instead of SRM6 and LRM10. would be basically a straight swap. though i'd switch the ammo round to be two tons LRm and 1 SRm instead of the other way round like normal. keeps the same basic endurance but improves the LRM throw weight.

and the Striker ought to be a fairly easy chassis to build. it is basically a bulked up flatbed truck with armor and a turret. (i would also presume they can make the Standard and Armor variant Flatbed Truck. possibly the SRM and LRM versions if they can source the launchers.

[Daryk]

They build the SRM Scorpion, so that implies they make SRM-6s, at least...

[Colt Ward]

Where does it say they build the Scorpion at all?

[Daryk]

Did I misunderstand your post?  I thought you said they did?  ???

[Robroy]

The only thing I saw in the book was they made vehicle and battlemech armor.

But, yeah. You would think that basic ICE vehicles could be produced also.

[Colt Ward]

Did I misunderstand your post?  I thought you said they did?  ???

Maybe, and maybe I made it rushed . . . but the Scorpion is one of three designs specifically named as being common and filling out their non-mech forces, along with the Galleon.  Tracked armor box is easier to make than a lot of other things, so I said I expected they could build the Scorpion . . . and it would be interesting if they could make the Scorpion but had to import the weapons from the MOC since it would keep them a step or so below the Periphery majors.  The AC is not the major leagues, more like a AA club.

[Daryk]

Ah, ok.  The SRM Scorpion uses the SRM-6, and the LRM Carrier was also on your list, which is how I drew my conclusion.  I suppose I should have said if those two are on your list, then the SRM Carrier should be too, vice implying they're actually manufactured by the Aurigan Coaltion.