The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core

[Colt Ward]

So one other IRL application . . . pre-staged equipment.  I want to say at one point in the Cold War the US had equipment staged at Diego Garcia for a larger armored formation.  I know they had equipment staged in Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm so forces could rapidly re-deploy from stateside if the balloon went up.

As the Reunification was wrapping up and troops shifting from one theater to another, it would be easier to put primitive and early model mechs into storage and transfer the troops to meet up with the latest upgraded equipment as part of the refit & rest period before plunging into the fires of the theater they transferred to fight.  When did the Star League convert to single-design battalions & regiments?  Especially with the military-industrial complex theories about the SL procurement, they are not going to want the replaced mechs shipped back (remember Lord of War's line about selling M-16s by the pound!) since its all about the SL buying new stuff.

Heh, would observers really be able to notice that Wolverines, Shadow Hawks, Dervish, Archers, Thunderbolt, Riflemen, Wasps or Griffins were primitive?  They would just write off the lesser performance IMO to being in the typical Periphery poor state of repair/operation . . . finding Icarus, BattleAxe, Alfar, Firebee, or Swordmen would raise way more questions.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly the biggest advantage i think they'd get from digging up those old site would be the support equipment.. even if the mechs and vehicles left behind were largely useless, the sites would still have supplies of tools, maintenance gear, mechbay assemblies, and other stuff that the AC could salvage and use to maintain their own army and bases.

[Adventwolf]

Yep that is the major advantage of going to the sites. Not the weapons but all the support systems that are needed to improve the infrastructure of the AC. Like the Argo specifically had manufacturing systems that produced better quality gear than the TC.

[Colt Ward]

Or the Argo's advanced Mech Bay Repair support . . . I want to say the House Arano book was talking about how long/hard it was to put the regular forces back together from the damaged remains.

[Adventwolf]

From what I gathered it was more that they simply didn't have the full amount to rebuild. Most of the Taurian vehicles sent to help the Directorate was salvageable. Getting the equipment for maintaining and supporting forces from the Caches would be the thing the AC needs to expand its Mechanized Infantry forces into larger formations with heavier firepower. Getting that support structure built up would also allow the AC to reactivate several of the defenses and fortifications that were left behind when the stronger powers withdrew.

[RifleMech]

I can totally see there being lost caches of Primitive and other early mechs. Outdated and damaged Mechs could easily be put into storage to wait for shipment back to the factory to be scrapped or rebuilt. It wouldn't need to be just mechs either but any unit or even just tech items. X unit gets a refit kit to replace their Prototype equipment and end up with a warehouse full of BAP-P and TAG-P.

[Daryk]

The original Periphery book only mentions "caches of Star League equipment", so that wasn't it... I'll keep looking...

I've been through all the books I can think of, and haven't found it.  The "SLDF caches" will be enough for my game, at least.

[Adventwolf]

Not even sure it would be primitive tech or even mechs. These caches were the ones that were remembered by someone that decided to hide it on the Argo. That means that it shouldn't be all just a bunch of junk or extremely old tech. Plus like was already said mechs are not what the AC will want from these caches it is the support equipment and infrastructure that they can build and help support that is the greatest price. The AC has an overall technology rating of C (Moderately Advanced world) with several worlds at D (Lower tech world). They need to increase that level as much as possible. Plus the increased production and level of tech would quiet alot of the issues they are dealing with post-war. Even 2 years after the Restoration war was completed they were still struggling and the 4th SW was about to kick off.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly it probably wasn't "caches" at all, but rather an up to date map (as of the Argo's launch) of the star league bases and facilities within the periphery. meant to let the crew of the ship know where they can seek assistance or support if they got in trouble. only no one on the Argo's crew expected the star league to fall, or the bases to be abandoned.

knowing where to find those old sites would be a start on finding any caches the SLDF left behind when they bugged out, but wouldn't guarantee finding anything.

[Adventwolf]

honestly it probably wasn't "caches" at all, but rather an up to date map (as of the Argo's launch) of the star league bases and facilities within the periphery. meant to let the crew of the ship know where they can seek assistance or support if they got in trouble. only no one on the Argo's crew expected the star league to fall, or the bases to be abandoned.

knowing where to find those old sites would be a start on finding any caches the SLDF left behind when they bugged out, but wouldn't guarantee to find anything.

Except that the map is dated from right before the Vandenberg Uprising after the Argo went missing and it wasn't just bases it was every location that the SLDF operated from and their supply points as well. It was also full of secret locations that had no public records of there being any there. It also needed a piece of specialized equipment in order to open the core. There was nothing on the Argo that could access it in the first place so it wasn't something that the crew knew about.

[Ursus Maior]

So one other IRL application . . . pre-staged equipment.  I want to say at one point in the Cold War the US had equipment staged at Diego Garcia for a larger armored formation.  I know they had equipment staged in Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm so forces could rapidly re-deploy from stateside if the balloon went up.

I think that only startedlate in the Cold War, if at all, with Army Prepositioned Stock (APS-3 in Diego Garcia: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/aps-3.htm). These stocks were already in place in the early 1990s (cf. Gulf War Air Power Survey: Logistics and support, 1993: https://books.google.de/books?id=z5N4P82gvboC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=diego+garcia+pomcus&source=bl&ots=9c4U6YOp9g&sig=ACfU3U3X-5oFjLYzPnpZ39MTuvlOWszSHw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjbmfGty4fmAhUHyqQKHcjFC1MQ6AEwAHoECB8QAQ#v=onepage&q=diego%20garcia%20pomcus&f=false), but I'm not certain they had been established before the the Gulf War in 1991. Back in the late 1990s APS-3 used 17 ships in Diego Garcia, earlier that decade the count was less, more like 10-12.

I'm not certain if APS-3 is still in place, but it was apparently in 2012 and expected to run at least until 2020 (cf. https://www.army.mil/article/87899/aps_3_army_strategic_flotilla_rebuild_complete_meets_2020_strategy). A lot has changed in the last years, though.

I can totally see that for the SLDF. You evacuate an area, but know it could heat up any time again. So you preposition materiel for a division or two on a moon in a system close to a potential flashpoint, seal the bunker shut, and tell your corps of engineers to make a mark on the map. Then the exodus happens, and no one is there to remember that particular bunker on the far side of a moon no one cares about.

[Colt Ward]

Yup, or you just do it with equipment that gets replaced . . .

"Hey, we just got this new shipment of Warhammer 7As to replace our old Warhammer 6Rs- what you want to do with the old ones?"

"Well, we might need them in the future . . . you know, replace losses if we ever shoot at anyone.  Tell you what, go dig a hole and put them in the bottom of that hole . . . along with the engineers that dig the hole."

"Do what Captain Teach?"

"Sorry, channeling a ancestor . . . "

[Adventwolf]

Especially since while the Star League was a "time of peace" there was plenty of fighting still going on between the Great Houses and even the Terran Hegemony. And the Periphery still would have had a lot of low extensity fighting going on the entire time. That means caches and supplies would have been built up over hundreds of years and quite of few would have slipped through the cracks of the SLDF when the uprising happened and then the coup. With the amount of destruction that occurred few people or things would have a full accounting of where everything was before. Also with tensions increasing majorly before the Uprising happened even more equipment and supplies would have been moved into the Periphery in preparation for the war that was on the Horizon. The Argo was lost just before the uprising happened in 2765 and it was launched in 2762 or 63 that means that before the uprising happened and the ship was lost it got the updated map of where everything was that had been built up and forgotten during the conflict and exodus that followed. 

[RifleMech]

Yup, or you just do it with equipment that gets replaced . . .

"Hey, we just got this new shipment of Warhammer 7As to replace our old Warhammer 6Rs- what you want to do with the old ones?"

"Well, we might need them in the future . . . you know, replace losses if we ever shoot at anyone.  Tell you what, go dig a hole and put them in the bottom of that hole . . . along with the engineers that dig the hole."

"Do what Captain Teach?"

"Sorry, channeling a ancestor . . . "

Now I have this picture in my head of a farmer going out to check on his field and tripping over the barely exposed top of a mech.

[Colt Ward]

Just have to hope the harrow attachment on his Agromech does not strike the warheads resting in the SRM launcher.

[Adventwolf]

Speaking of Industrial Mechs if the AC could find enough support equipment they could add production of Industrial Mechs to their Industry. They already make a lot of agrotech to the point that is a major export. Building Industrial Mechs something that everyone needs but isn't so important that you would get invaded for the factories would be a major boost to the AC tech base and economy.

[Colt Ward]

Pretty sure it came up in another thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=65895.0) and while they are mentioned- you can get a pilot who fights in a IndiMech derby IIRC- its possible one of the mining companies produces their own MiningMechs.  I mean, I support it if you want to retcon Indi's across the universe in your headcanon which is supported by some fiction & BC stories.

[Adventwolf]

Industrial Mechs are being built in-universe they are just not a major focus. And the AC doesn't build anything like that. They build agrotech not mechs. It is their major export to the point it is what they are known for.

[Colt Ward]

One of the mining corporations builds vehicle and mech armor, with the description it seems to me they might build it as well as explaining that bit of fluff from the game.

[Adventwolf]

Yeah they build armor and they build and make all kinds of argotech but there is nothing that points to the AC having a mech factory of any kind. If they did then the TC or the CC never would have left the worlds since a factory that can build mechs of any kind during the secession wars would have never been abandoned. The AC likely has some sort of capacity to build spare parts and equipment but not the ability to build mechs from scratch. The refit yards are just that repair and refit not building things.

[Colt Ward]

Its the nature of RetCon . . . we never hear about any House battling over a world that produces any IndiMech until the Dark Ages.  So the CC or TC invading a world to get their hands on the factory would be a non sequitur.  Whether you think the AC could be building Agro or Mining Mechs all depends on what you view happening in BTU as a whole during the 3SW IMO.  Why didn't they use IndiMechs for war in the 3SW (except guerillas did in the beginning trilogy)?  Same reason none of the Houses were building primitives . . . b/c they did not exist at the time of the fluff . . . BUT the last Stackpole books about the start of the Kell Hounds did have them using ultralights and non-standard stuff so maybe that is being addressed.  You can also look at the fluff on stuff like the security mechs (like Inquisitor) that existed in 3SW.

Personally, IF I was playing a strategic campaign with the AC, I would have them building IndiMechs- Agro & Mining, with mods of the two basic types for Forestry and Construction.  IE, the mining company sells a MiningMech and another company makes a after market mod kit that can turn it into a ConstructionMech (not as good as purpose built design) that works pretty well for large scale construction.  But if they DO build IndiMechs they are going to be one of the most primitive things around- fancy IndiMechs are built/used by the Inner Sphere- ONLY ICE engine machines, commercial grade components (maybe after market with milspec armor) open/unsealed cockpits, and anything else to make it the least efficient IndiMech.

[Adventwolf]

I have no idea why you keep going back to the idea that the AC builds mechs of any kind. And yes the CC and TC would have never left the worlds which were theirs before the AC was ever a thing. Because guess what those factories were taken during the SW and they were converted or disassembled for parts for Battlemech factories. The AC has no production of mechs that is a fact both from the game and the source book. What they do have is the production of agrotech you know agricultural technology. That is their main export and claim to fame and power in the periphery they are the best farmers around. I don't  really get your obsession with them already having industrial mechs being made when there is nothing to back it up. And this has nothing to do with retcons or headcanon this is what is stated and shown.

[RifleMech]

Just have to hope the harrow attachment on his Agromech does not strike the warheads resting in the SRM launcher.

It'd be one heck of a harvest.

Speaking of Industrial Mechs if the AC could find enough support equipment they could add production of Industrial Mechs to their Industry. They already make a lot of agrotech to the point that is a major export. Building Industrial Mechs something that everyone needs but isn't so important that you would get invaded for the factories would be a major boost to the AC tech base and economy.

Actually, IndustrialMechs and their factories were cannibalized for parts to keep BattleMechs running so a mech factory of any sort would be a target. Not that a Periphery planet needs a mech factory to be a target.

I have no idea why you keep going back to the idea that the AC builds mechs of any kind. And yes the CC and TC would have never left the worlds which were theirs before the AC was ever a thing. Because guess what those factories were taken during the SW and they were converted or disassembled for parts for Battlemech factories. The AC has no production of mechs that is a fact both from the game and the source book. What they do have is the production of agrotech you know agricultural technology. That is their main export and claim to fame and power in the periphery they are the best farmers around. I don't  really get your obsession with them already having industrial mechs being made when there is nothing to back it up. And this has nothing to do with retcons or headcanon this is what is stated and shown.

Agrotech is pretty vague. As such it could include AgroMechs. Or it could just include some parts and assembly.. I think it's up to the players if they want it to include industrial Mech factories or not.

[Adventwolf]

Except that the Source book tells you exactly what Agrotech is and what the AC is selling and producing from it. Not mechs of any kind. So no it isn't up to the players to decide. It is said clear as day what Agrotech is.

[RifleMech]

Except that the Source book tells you exactly what Agrotech is and what the AC is selling and producing from it. Not mechs of any kind. So no it isn't up to the players to decide. It is said clear as day what Agrotech is.

You'll have to tell me where it is then cause I can't find it. 

[Adventwolf]

You'll have to tell me where it is then cause I can't find it.

Page 22 of the source book where they specifically talk about the AC Socioeconomic breakdown, their major industries and companies. Also made a mistake it is called agritech.

[RifleMech]

Thanks. :)  However I don't see where it excludes IndustrialMechs. Like I said, Agritech is pretty vague. It could be every thing from hand tools to AgroMechs.

[glitterboy2098]

Mech manufacturing is almost always mentioned in sourcebooks. So I highly doubt agromech. More likely conventional tractors, combines, tillers, harvesters, etc.
Vitally important to agriculture but much easier to build than mech of any kind.

[Adventwolf]

It is all of those plus genemod crop seeds, agricultural schools, compact fertilizer, pesticide synthesizers, agronomy (low-level terraforming), and farming technologies. But nothing like a industrial mech factory. Which is why finding any kind of support equipment from the Caches would be a major boon. It would allow the AC to enhance their established industries and if they are lucky they can use the equipment to set up some sort of mech factory for industrial mechs. Which is something they need more than battlemechs or military technology. The AC is technologically inferior to its neighbors and needs something to boost its production and tech base in order to survive.

[RifleMech]

Mech manufacturing is almost always mentioned in sourcebooks. So I highly doubt agromech. More likely conventional tractors, combines, tillers, harvesters, etc.
Vitally important to agriculture but much easier to build than mech of any kind.

Not necessarily. House Stiener Sourcebooks mentions Rastaban Agricultural but not that they build IndustrialMechs. I can't find Ericksson-Agro in it or the Kurita House Book even though Verthandi was owned by both and had a agromech factory. We don't even have stats for the agromech that was made there.

It is quite possible its just parts. Then again they could be building a couple a year. We don't know because the book doesn't say. I did say I thought it could be up to the players. After all, we do have the planet Spencer with the Panhard Academy of Industrial Science, andits IndustrialMech Pilot Training facilities. If an unaffiliated Periphery planet can have a science academy with mech pilot training it isn't unreasonable to think that a planet with unspecified agricultural manufacturing couldn't build an agromech.