Author Topic: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!  (Read 162889 times)

Minemech

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #720 on: 28 October 2017, 18:41:18 »
 Davy Crockett was a Patriot, but the Regulans felt the need to add dimensions to that understanding.
« Last Edit: 28 October 2017, 18:48:50 by Minemech »

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #721 on: 28 October 2017, 19:24:51 »
Re question 1, don't forget the FWL also had many Awesomes which subbed LRM-15s and/or large lasers for the PPCs, just like the Marauder 3M which uses paired large lasers. The AWS-8T and -8V aren't too bad, but they're not the alpha striking zombie that the -Q series are.

Re question 2, "combined arms" doesn't mean "we have different things" - it's more about "we use different things at the same time".

So a Fedrat might send in scouting Packrats ahead of Manticores, or have light 'Mechs scouting for the assault 'Mech battalion. The canny Leaguer commander will use his hovers to scout for his battle lances, while his Archers and Trebuchets provide fire support for his Bulldogs, which are breaking way for the assault infantry.

(And as someone involved in ISaW, yes, it'd be lovely to have the word count to go back & sort out garrisons!)

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Wotan

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #722 on: 29 October 2017, 09:51:27 »
So, I've read that in 3025 the FWL is short on Assault Mech manufacture and PPC's. But I've also read that their Assault Mech production is in Awesomes, Goliaths and Battlemasters. Which have 5PPCs between them. Is this weird, or is the shortage in PPCs due to the fact that every PPC produced is shoved right into one of these 3 Mechs?
Don't forget our factories for Thugs, Marauders, Warhammers, Griffins that all need PPCs. As far as i know there are only variants for Awesome and Marauder that switches the PPCs because of shortage. And to add on the assault line we also have Stalkers in production. Not needing PPCs but adding to the assaults.

Quote
I've also read that despite the lack of Assault Mech production the FWL leads in Jumpship and Aerospace production, so have a combined arms thing going on to make up for a shortage of Assaults. But in Interstellar Ops, the list of Combat Command Compositions for 3025 in Inner Sphere at War lists the Draconis Combine as having the most Aerospace wings in a command, the Free Worlds League have the same 2 wings as everyone else. Should I maybe increase this? Other than infantry the FWL combat commands don't appear to increase anything to make up for lack of Assault Mechs.
You should take a look to the old FM: FWL. You will find descriptions on our independent aerospace assets. We have independent fighter wings and we have (transport) fleets with attached wings. Sadly we never got numbers on these units. All publications always focus on mech formations and the attached assets. I hoped ISaW would shed some light on this unit type.
For me these units play a big role in the strategic planning of the FWLM and are a good reason why we survived despite all odds.


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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #723 on: 29 October 2017, 11:13:07 »
Lyran martial ineptitude and Capellan fixation on The Davion Problem do plenty to explain it to me.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #724 on: 29 October 2017, 11:40:02 »
Inner Sphere at War doesn't allow independent air wings, combat commands need to have a mech regiment, so I was expecting to see them included there.

Now the rules don't force the player to stick to the default command structure so a player could decide to include loads of aerospace units.
Or if I was running a game I could change it before the game began.

Does anyone here have experience playing ISaW? How did the FWL fare?
« Last Edit: 29 October 2017, 12:35:25 by Gallowglacht »

Wotan

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #725 on: 29 October 2017, 12:06:06 »
Lyran martial ineptitude and Capellan fixation on The Davion Problem do plenty to explain it to me.

Just think aboout Andurien - we had quiet a lot of fighting with the Cappies in our history.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #726 on: 29 October 2017, 12:11:06 »
I don't spare thought for traitors. ;)
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #727 on: 29 October 2017, 15:16:05 »
I don't spare thought for traitors. ;)

You win the thread.  Congratulations sir.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #728 on: 29 October 2017, 23:49:25 »
Regarding the Free Worlds League use of Light Vehicle Long Platoons, does anyone have any preferred vehicle mix? Homogeneous compositions are always fine ("Regulator Good. Moar Regulator Moar Good.") but having six slots opens the possibility for entertaining force combinations.

I've always been fond of my 2 Hetzer, 4 Hetzer (LRM) platoons which I've been using as cheap, expendable Fire Support bases since the Succession Wars - though the combination of LRMs and large bore ACs seems almost elementary logic.

Anyone have any magic vee formulas they want to share?

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #729 on: 30 October 2017, 06:17:41 »
WooHooo! Some buddies are up to playing Inner Sphere at War.
So soon I get to find out if the FWL can win with what it's got :)

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #730 on: 30 October 2017, 21:03:39 »
I'm a tad late to the discussion.

So, Anzus.

The Anzu is, as you say, largely a supplement to the Thunderbolt's mission role. It is most useful against foes the TDR-10M struggles against, such as ones with reflective armor and/or enough speed to stay at Range 2 or Range 1 and exploit its minimum ranges. This is especially true for the -J70 model, which is clearly built to be a cross between an in-fighter (RAC/5) and precise 'fencer' (SnubPPC).

However, the Anzu also has the TDR-10M's other weakness; no meaningful damage output beyond 18 hexes. The previously discussed ARC-9M is one option to solve this, as is the GRF-3M. TMP-3G could also fill the role, but I think it's slightly obsolete at this point. The Scourge might do better at the same job, though I admit it's BV-intensive.

Options improve somewhat if you add our clantech machines to the mix, but 'clantech' frankly solves damn near any problem imaginable.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #731 on: 30 October 2017, 21:08:28 »
I must be in the minority, because unobstructed sight lines greater than 18 hexes are a rarity on hex-based tables.  In Alpha Strike it's less of an issue because long range is all to the same distance, but the primary reason to field long range weapons in most games I've ever seen played is to have better numbers at medium range than your opponent.
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Colt Ward

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #732 on: 31 October 2017, 00:39:24 »
Should have some lanes that long, but should also have places on balanced maps that offer just short range options . . . the 25 hex range of the LGR and cERLL call for it after all.  I know when I play with Clan units I want those distant shots b/c against the IS I have to start trying to burn through the armor as far away as possible.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #733 on: 31 October 2017, 09:02:52 »
I must be in the minority, because unobstructed sight lines greater than 18 hexes are a rarity on hex-based tables.  In Alpha Strike it's less of an issue because long range is all to the same distance, but the primary reason to field long range weapons in most games I've ever seen played is to have better numbers at medium range than your opponent.

Even if 18 hexes is unavailable, it's also having a medium range shot at 12 hexes where you're at a 2 point disadvantage to stuff with medium range of 14 and 15.
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sadlerbw

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #734 on: 31 October 2017, 09:34:09 »
Yep, it isn’t the raw distance. It’s getting better mods than the other guy at a given distance where ‘long range’ weapons make the most difference.

Anyway, after reading a couple of the posts about the dearth of good units in the 3058-3067 timeframe, which is a statement I agreee with BTW, I decided to go back through those TROs and see if I was forgetting anything. Other than forgetting how nice many of the Blackjack Omnis variants are, I don’t think I ever realized the Bloodhound was fluffed as a straight-up FWL! It doesn’t change my opinion entirely of the period, but that is a very respectable unit.

The other thing I noticed is that there are some very nice units that exist within the FWLs borders...they just don’t belong to the FWL. Sadly, it seems the FWL sort of became the scrub-tier of the WoB, equipment wise. They got all sorts of warships out of the deal, and some nice BA, but as far as the mechs go, all the best stuff seems to have been fluffed to the WoB to flesh them out at the expense of the FWL.

Dies Irae

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #735 on: 31 October 2017, 10:55:40 »
The Cappies made off like bandits as well.

But back to the question of what to use as BFFs with the Anzu... I actually had a pretty good run with it escorting a GOL-6M in a couple of fights.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2017, 11:00:10 by Dies Irae »

Easy

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #736 on: 31 October 2017, 12:17:26 »
I'm still going on the tacit assumption that the WoB 'Mechs are included in the CC RATs but not the FWL's due to the WoB's efforts to conceal their level of preparations for their Jihad. (Which was initially aimed at the Clans.)

To be honest, during the main development phase of the '58-'67 time period, while there may have been a FWL team at conventions, there were very few dedicated FWL fans among the players I most often interacted with.

We mostly gravitated, first, to FC, who generally served as the 'intro' faction and was where most noobs got their training. Then, players would migrate over to DC, in ones and twos, until there was an acceptable parity of numbers between the two.

CC was composed of a small number of clued pilots who were very active and generally were the first ones to gain pilot and, especially, gunnery level-ups which would consolidate that exclusive elite status.

FWL, in most cases, was a group of largely unknowns who rarely had a decisive affect on the scenarios and who's value was often played out as a spoiler or perhaps a possible temporary ally.

When the number of active players began to decline and scenarios more often became 1 faction vs 1 faction, FWL was the first to go, followed by CC.

To my knowledge, what RATs we used were custom made to ensure balance.
« Last Edit: 31 October 2017, 12:23:41 by Easy »

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #737 on: 31 October 2017, 12:52:27 »
Even if 18 hexes is unavailable, it's also having a medium range shot at 12 hexes where you're at a 2 point disadvantage to stuff with medium range of 14 and 15.

I agree.  But, my point was wholly a rebuttal against the idea that not having reliable damage outside of 18 hexes constituted a major disadvantage.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #738 on: 31 October 2017, 17:31:35 »
I agree.  But, my point was wholly a rebuttal against the idea that not having reliable damage outside of 18 hexes constituted a major disadvantage.

Out of all the Houses, for the FWL with its strange fixation on light gauss vomit and missile spam, having a smattering of 'Mechs with no teeth beyond 18 hexes is actually not all too big of a problem given the number of other designs that exist to cover for it.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #739 on: 05 November 2017, 02:12:16 »
I'm not saying it's a crippling flaw. It's significant and noteworthy, but a maximum striking range of 18 hexes on a 4/6/4 unit can be overcome. 3/5/0 is where it becomes a serious problem. For 4/6/4, it's something you keep in mind.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #740 on: 08 November 2017, 15:23:01 »
Speaking of the Anzu, what does everyone think of being good lancemates for it?

Anzu, Anvil-8M, Anvil-6M, Archer-9M

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #741 on: 08 November 2017, 17:25:36 »
Lol, the A Team . . .
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #742 on: 08 November 2017, 19:42:34 »
A thought occurs to me, inspired by the specops thread elsewhere on the forum. The FWL got a few odd designs in 3050u, specifically referring to the handful of small mechs that mount a Light Gauss Rifle as their primary or sole armament. Pretty underwhelming, but these are meant to be used by the Dark Shadows battalion, which implies REALLY GOOD pilots.

Do you think the utility of these small LGR mechs changes when they get hyper-elite pilots? Are these guys capable of getting unexpected performance out of their mechs?
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #743 on: 08 November 2017, 20:17:16 »
They're still just a bunch of 8 point hits, though.  Even in the 3070s, I'd rather have a Hermes II "Mercury" than a "Mercury Elite."  LGRs should be tank guns or at the very least paired with enough other long range guns that can stack more hits to cause piloting checks.  And Heaven help you in you run into something like  LCT-5M.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #744 on: 08 November 2017, 20:23:37 »
Having a really good shot with a long gun like the light gauss on a reasonably speedy platform must be nightmarishly annoying for their opponents.

There's also the potential use against softer targets. There's something to be said about picking off a specific car in a motorcade or taking out a specific corner of a building without having to get close enough to worry about security. Makes me wish they had stealth armor as well.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #745 on: 09 November 2017, 07:44:30 »
Having a really good shot with a long gun like the light gauss on a reasonably speedy platform must be nightmarishly annoying for their opponents.

You are referring to a company of Hawk Moth Gunships? 12 Light Gauss moving with 8/12 on any level with 32 shots each?
I always liked that idea and would like to see production numbers for this VTOL and the ratio on our line regiments. There is little to no answer for most enemies against swarms of Hawk Moths.

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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #746 on: 09 November 2017, 08:25:17 »
You are referring to a company of Hawk Moth Gunships? 12 Light Gauss moving with 8/12 on any level with 32 shots each?
I always liked that idea and would like to see production numbers for this VTOL and the ratio on our line regiments. There is little to no answer for most enemies against swarms of Hawk Moths.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #747 on: 09 November 2017, 09:01:52 »
You are referring to a company of Hawk Moth Gunships?

No. Please note that the post that started this specifically asked about mechs.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #748 on: 09 November 2017, 09:57:06 »
Though Hawk Moths are pretty nice too.
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Re: The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!
« Reply #749 on: 09 November 2017, 10:29:26 »
They are, just not what's being discussed right now.
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