The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!

[ANS Kamas P81]

Alright, that's an argument I can accept re: Thor II access.

Speaking of clan tech, it's kind of a shock fighting the clans so often lately.  I feel like any Mech we field or design going forward has to have an answer for "for my BV cost, can I do enough damage to a clan Mech to be worth fielding?"

On the other hand, SnubNose PPCs appear to be one of the few significant advantages we have against clantech.

There's also the happy fact that every LGR-equipped Marik mech is one bit of battlefield salvage away from an instant refit with a clan-tech full Gauss.  That said, SURVIVING is the tricky part, but at least the FWL has the history of the Invasion to look at and work on.  Not that it helped much, apparently, but at least the Wolves decided to go after Terra instead.

Question now is, should the FWL push back against a still technologically superior foe, and take the risk of REALLY getting eaten when the Wolves come back?  I mean Atreus IS right there.

[worktroll]

I've had luck with the Main Gauche IFV on some occasions, although arguably they play somewhat like quad 'Mechs...the lack of a turret has screwed with them more than a few times.

I'll put my hand up for that one. But Colt Ward has it right - a platoon of 6 of these, with integral BA, should be capable of self-covering. Plus, the plasma gun is super-effective against BA or infantry, and still pretty good against armour.

But a turret? Wouldn't be a Maine Gauche then.

W.

[The Eagle]

Question now is, should the FWL push back against a still technologically superior foe, and take the risk of REALLY getting eaten when the Wolves come back?  I mean Atreus IS right there.

As much as I'd like to get Keystone back, I think the best course is to hold off on war with the Wolves for the moment.  We need to see how much the reconquista of Regulus cost us in terms of materiel, and the Elsies are a softer target that are due a good butt-kicking for starting this whole mess with the Wolves in the first place.  I've always wanted to see the Eagle flying over Bolan again.

[Colt Ward]

One thing to think about GespenstM is that while Clan tech has spread and we also have more mixed tech chassis . . . if you are facing a Clan force, it should NOT be pure Omni let alone pure Clan-tech.  Grant you if you are facing Clan elite, those IS or mixed tech chassis are not going to be pushovers but its not the same as facing a Clan force in '50.

[Weirdo]

It seems to me that if you're looking at FWL mechs to win the fight against the Wolves, you're looking in the wrong place. The FWLM is a combined arms force, so look at the entire spectrum. The Clans may have stepped up their combined arms game, but they're still relative newcomers to something we've been doing for centuries. Don't look to the mechs to win the fight, look to them to hold the fight while the other stuff you brought wins it. And don't forget just how stinking huge our infantry regiments are...

[ANS Kamas P81]

It seems to me that if you're looking at FWL mechs to win the fight against the Wolves, you're looking in the wrong place. The FWLM is a combined arms force, so look at the entire spectrum. The Clans may have stepped up their combined arms game, but they're still relative newcomers to something we've been doing for centuries. Don't look to the mechs to win the fight, look to them to hold the fight while the other stuff you brought wins it. And don't forget just how stinking huge our infantry regiments are...

RE: Infantry, that's what - 64 platoons per regiment?  That's a huge amount of meatbags to sway things, and with 3150's infantry tech it should be glorious.  What's the standard FWLM small arm anyway?  Seems like it should be time to create some Fun Ideas.

You know, combining Main Gauche and Galleon -105s would make a fantastic light-armor infantry support setup.  It may only be a thumper, but hey, it's still worth it.  Can you fit an Arrow IV into a galleon?  That trio would make things hilarious with the single-chassis design.  If the League ever gets Kalidasa back, that Orion C is going to be one hell of an assault machine.  Same with the BLR-6M Battlemaster, and its clan C2 variant; I can't imagine being lucky enough to keep those factories running in FWL hands post 3150.

[Weirdo]

Galleon-105? Not familiar with that one, don't see it on the MUL.

[SCC]

Galleon-105? Not familiar with that one, don't see it on the MUL.

This variant of the Galleon is equipped with a Thumper Artillery Cannon and ER Medium Lasers in Sponson Turrets. It is used to provide fire support for light armored units. To make room for the weapons, armor was sacrificed.

Sarna cites Technical Readout: 3150, p. 222 as the source.

[Weirdo]

Ah, one of the ONN ones we don't have sheets for yet.

Even with the Thumper merely a Snub, I'm looking forward to that.

[Nav_Alpha]

RE: Infantry, that's what - 64 platoons per regiment?  That's a huge amount of meatbags to sway things, and with 3150's infantry tech it should be glorious.  What's the standard FWLM small arm anyway?  Seems like it should be time to create some Fun Ideas.

The standard Marik small arm is the AX-22 autorifle. Generally considered the best assault rifle in the Inner Sphere.
Leaguers seems to back that up with David Light gauss rifles as a support weapon - I guess in lieu of a squad machine gun.

[SCC]

The standard Marik small arm is the AX-22 autorifle. Generally considered the best assault rifle in the Inner Sphere.

The Federated-Barrett M42B would like a word with you.

[Kojak]

In fairness, at the time the AX-22 was declaimed as the greatest assault rifle in the Inner Sphere, the M42B did not yet exist.

[Weirdo]

You want evil platoons, back up those -22s with the big heavy support lasers, the biggest IS ones you can cram two to a squad. Your infantry won't be fast, but they'll hit far, and HARD.

[SCC]

You want evil platoons, back up those -22s with the big heavy support lasers, the biggest IS ones you can cram two to a squad. Your infantry won't be fast, but they'll hit far, and HARD.

None sense, just abuse the heck out of the cybernetics and mounted infantry (including the Heavy Horse SPA) and you can have your infantry moving 3 hexes a turn and firing their 20+ support lasers.

[The Eagle]

That's not a very League-ish thing to do, though, given the inherit bias against cybernetics our faction is noted for.

[Minemech]

 I doubt the "Real" Thomas Marik has done anything to improve that image of bionics.

[Scotty]

Yeah, that reeks of min-maxing some kind of edge case WOBbly crap, not a League formation of any sort.

In terms of "League Infantry", I like to bring field guns.  LGRs towed by motorized infantry mean you can generally pick something else for your 'Mechs and not give up range advantage.  Otherwise, it's battle armor.  Bog standard PBIs with nothing special I'd rather use to hold ground and find hidden units than in anything approaching an actual combat role.

[Weirdo]

Tracked or wheeled mechinf with decent range tends to make for a nice escort for big tanks and mechs.

My favorite part of conventional infantry is that many people still tend to put them on the back burner, tactics-wise. Makes it easy to get them into good positions, or get backshots on mechs that are focused on other things.

[truetanker]

You want evil platoons, back up those -22s with the big heavy support lasers, the biggest IS ones you can cram two to a squad. Your infantry won't be fast, but they'll hit far, and HARD.

According to the fluff of Quasimodo,  it uses triple Diverse Optics Type 47V medium variable speed lasers.

So instead of your heavy support, the A Time of War Companion contains the Md. VSL support weapon stats.

TT

[SCC]

You want evil platoons, back up those -22s with the big heavy support lasers, the biggest IS ones you can cram two to a squad. Your infantry won't be fast, but they'll hit far, and HARD.

Yeah, that reeks of min-maxing some kind of edge case WOBbly crap, not a League formation of any sort.

In terms of "League Infantry", I like to bring field guns.  LGRs towed by motorized infantry mean you can generally pick something else for your 'Mechs and not give up range advantage.  Otherwise, it's battle armor.  Bog standard PBIs with nothing special I'd rather use to hold ground and find hidden units than in anything approaching an actual combat role.

Do note that I'm not sure if what I suggested is even rules legal, so.

Also personally the field guns I'd like most to see would be either using Chemical Lasers or using all up BA weapons.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Read TacOps for the notes on Field Guns, they're completely different from what you're describing.

So a platoon with AX-22s, each squad has an SL and two three-man fireteams, each fireteam with a David.  A full platoon of 28 hits with 16 points of damage out to range 9, though it's stuck with the move-or-shoot option.  Still pretty wicked.

[Weirdo]

So a platoon with AX-22s, each squad has an SL and two three-man fireteams, each fireteam with a David.  A full platoon of 28 hits with 16 points of damage out to range 9, though it's stuck with the move-or-shoot option.  Still pretty wicked.

You can have the Support Laser or the David as your support weapon choice, but not both.

A lot of people like to fan-rule what they do with infantry. For purposes of this thread, can we stick to what's actually rules-legal, please?

[Scotty]

Much as I'd rather not (one of the things I hate most about TW is how needlessly abstracted infantry are), I'm not entirely sure what else there is to talk about if we do.  The way TechManual handles infantry weapons, you've got roughly three points of decision to min/max: speed, range, damage; pick two.  Unlike on 'Mechs, there's not actually a reasonably balanced tradeoff between weapons, so it's relatively easy to identify the three breakpoints.

Speed and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons available
Speed and Range: Highest range primary weapons available
Range and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons; two of the highest range secondary weapons available.  If you prioritize damage over range but still want both, pick whatever range 5 or so weapon has the highest damage.

It basically comes down to if you want fast(ish) platoons, don't use secondary weapons.  If you don't care, use Clan Heavy Support Lasers.

[Weirdo]

Then what has been said has been said. Nonetheless, the Fan Rules section exists for a reason: So people can discuss their house rules as they wish without confusing the hell out of folks in other sections who might get the impression you're actually talking about rules-legal stuff, or annoying the people who stay the hell away from the Fan Rules and Designs sections because they don't want to deal with that stuff.

[ANS Kamas P81]

You can have the Support Laser or the David as your support weapon choice, but not both.

I meant 'squad leader' sorry, was thinking on a level of 'squad leader, two fireteams, each with two riflemen and a david gunner.' 

Speed and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons available
Speed and Range: Highest range primary weapons available
Range and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons; two of the highest range secondary weapons available.  If you prioritize damage over range but still want both, pick whatever range 5 or so weapon has the highest damage.

Not sure we can do much about speed + damage, but the AX-22 is still a 0.56 weapon.  Could be a lot worse.  Speed and range, there's laser rifles that the FWL provides, a good choice for mechanized or motorized infantry - gives them extra reach on top of their mobility.  Not so hot on the damage, but could be worse.  Range and damage...well, you could be a supreme cheese god and say 'my 30 man platoon has five six-man squads each squad with two Heavy Support Lasers' - gives you ten of the guns, a base range of 5, and damage of 1.47 each - so nearly 15 points of damage before you add in the other 20 personal weapons.  Keeping it FWL themed, things they'd use as potential infantry.

Can you use Magshots as field guns?  That might be giggleworthy.

[Scotty]

You can, but each towed weapon requires at least two troopers.

[ANS Kamas P81]

That's still a lot of magshots!  Though you can't use your own infantry weapons at the same time, so it somewhat neutralizes the point of field guns.  Oh well, back to LGRs or UAC10s or RACs.

[Weirdo]

One of these days, I'm going to explore the merits of Ultra-10 field guns, plus opportunity fire rules. Make enemy scouts go the LONG way around...

[SCC]

Much as I'd rather not (one of the things I hate most about TW is how needlessly abstracted infantry are), I'm not entirely sure what else there is to talk about if we do.  The way TechManual handles infantry weapons, you've got roughly three points of decision to min/max: speed, range, damage; pick two.  Unlike on 'Mechs, there's not actually a reasonably balanced tradeoff between weapons, so it's relatively easy to identify the three breakpoints.

Speed and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons available
Speed and Range: Highest range primary weapons available
Range and Damage: Highest damage primary weapons; two of the highest range secondary weapons available.  If you prioritize damage over range but still want both, pick whatever range 5 or so weapon has the highest damage.

It basically comes down to if you want fast(ish) platoons, don't use secondary weapons.  If you don't care, use Clan Heavy Support Lasers.

Or you know,. just give a foot infantry platoon a Lt. with the Foot Cavalry SPA and watch them move two hexes AND fire their weapons, even if those weapons would normally impose a move or fire condition.

One of these days, I'm going to explore the merits of Ultra-10 field guns, plus opportunity fire rules. Make enemy scouts go the LONG way around...

Keep in mind that the guns don't jam.

[Scotty]

One of these days, I'm going to explore the merits of Ultra-10 field guns, plus opportunity fire rules. Make enemy scouts go the LONG way around...

SCC is correct that they don't jam, but they also only get 10 rounds per gun, and you can only ever bring along two of them.  Granted, you can only ever bring two AC/10s, too, so the extended range is 100% bonus with no drawback or downside, but trying to go ultra-mode with them is the fastest way to run out of ammo.

Opportunity Fire is incredibly fiddly and I'm genuinely not sure how they interact with field guns' turret-like facing restrictions.