Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)  (Read 10230 times)

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Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« on: 27 March 2013, 11:23:20 »
Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE

Only the second combat WiGE in the game so far, a distinction it shares with the Pandion, the Fensalir is one of a handful of these relatively rare units to date even including the various support WiGEs.  Short for "wing-in-ground-effect", WiGEs are basically very low flying aircraft that increase effective lift due to interruption of part of the normal behavior of air coming off of a wing.  (Those interested in a more technical explanation can find one here.)  I'm going to spend a bit explaining the basics of a WiGE in mechanical terms before delving into the discussion of the Fensalir itself; the full WiGE movement rules are on TW page page 55 but note current errata.  Functionally, WiGEs in BattleTech are treated as ground units, not aerospace units, but count as airborne under many circumstances, being affected by things like flak bonuses.  WiGEs require 5 MPs to get off the ground, putting them 1 elevation level above the terrain they're occupying (and going airborne), and must move at least five hexes every turn after that to remain airborne or else it lands immediately; note that landing in hexes that aren't clear or paved causes an automatic crash.  WiGEs are unable to move backward.  If not airborne, a WiGE has 1 ground MP with terrain restrictions as a hover unit and may enter hexes using the minimum movement rule.  Similarly to VTOLs, WiGEs at flank can sideslip.  Elevation is interesting.  A WiGE can enter terrain whose level is one higher than the terrain it's already occupying freely, automatically coming up a level above the new hex, but are unable to enter higher terrain.  If descending, a WiGE normally automatically 'sinks' down to that same one level, but it may maintain its current level by expending 2 extra MP per hex below its current level.  This extends to buildings - WiGEs can hop through suburban areas easily, although urban centers are going to be more problematic.  It automatically descends to the proper level at the end of its movement.  Landing is free, by the way.  Woods hexes must be jumped over in the "hang time" after coming off of higher terrain except in one special case: a WiGE can follow a road through the woods, but it must follow it exactly while in the trees or crash.  Overall, compared to a hover, WiGEs are more flexible about elevations and have some unique tactical options, but they also suffer a few limitations.

The name of the Fensalir is taken from Old Norse meaning "Fen Halls", one of the dwelling places of the goddess Frigg in the Norse Eddas.  The basic idea for the vehicle itself emerged from Johnston Industries as it struggled to rebuild after the nuclear bombardment of New Syrtis by the Periphery's favorite happy people mad dogs, the Taurian Concordat.  After shopping the idea of a joint venture around for several years, they finally found a partner in Nashan Diversified.  One gem from the description reads that "Johnston wanted an assault-class tank to compete against StarCorp’s Manteuffel..."  I'm not exactly sure what Johnston was after there, but someone might want to remind them that the Manteuffel is a 70 ton 5/8 tank.  Something along the lines of the Kinnol is going to get a lot farther as a competitor than a Demolisher clone is.  Nashan pointed out they didn't have the ability to build tanks and Johnston, getting a little desperate after six months of negotiations, settled on Nashan's existing project to develop a 50 ton WiGE counterpart to the Maxim.  The turret was removed, the tonnage went up, and Nashan got exclusive rights for ten years.  And then everyone went home happy: Johnston got their assault vehicle, Nashan got their WiGE, and Thomas Hogarth got a new personal watercraft.  The prototype arrived in 3083 with full production a year later going to Bolan and Donegal.  The next runs were estimated to go to the Melissia Theater and Coventry province.

I mentioned that this is, in fact, an assault unit, meaning it has to be 80 tons, the largest possible combat vehicle WiGE.  Despite the size, this vehicle has plenty of speed with a high suspension factor meaning a mere 260-rated extra-light engine is able to drive it at speeds of 86 kph across open terrain, the waves, or even ridge lines if the pilot can find a good mix of terrain.  (A comparable engine installed in the Cestus provides only three-quarters of the speed.)  11.5 tons of heavy ferro-fibrous armor is quite solid, especially considering the lack of a turret, with 60 points on the front and side facings and 48 aft.  A four ton bay, sufficient to move a squad of battle armor or a platoon of jump infantry, is the sole remnant of the original transport concept, but given the weapons load, it's a case of adding insult to possibly lethal injury.  The main armament is a Defiance Hammerfist heavy Gauss rifle, the same model used on the Fafnir, and reportedly installed because it was cheaper to buy from Defiance than ship a Johnston Main Model C standard model from the Federated Suns.  In any case, it has 3 tons of ammo, maybe a bit short for some tastes but not excessively so, and whatever one's opinion of the weapon, at medium or short range, it hits like a Mack truck.  Adding some flexibility to things is a pair of Devastator 7-tube multiple missile launchers sharing two tons of ammo - this is short to my tastes, but you have enough for 8 or 9 shots of LRMs and 7 shots of SRMs on the same platform, which is acceptable enough.  A pair of ERMLs are carried for backup and to supplement the SRM fire at short range.  All of these weapons face forward, giving the Fensalir some interesting issues with close-in maneuvering, but no one caught in the forward arc of one of these monsters is going to enjoy it very much.

Somehow, the Wolves-in-Exile got their furry paws on the Fensalir, with either modifications or full-blown production going on at Arc-Royal.  Deployed with their Galaxies in the eponymous Arc-Royal Theater and the Kell Hounds, the Exile model predictably takes the original and turns it up a notch.  Details are still sketchy at this point as the record sheet has yet to be published but, unlike some of the other units in the book, the end result seems pretty clear.  The suggestion is made that this is a mixed-tech variant right out of the factory, using a Spheroid chassis, engine, and armor.  It makes a certain amount of sense if you think about it - Spheroid and Clan engines are basically identical as far as combat vehicles are concerned aside from the bulk, with no differences in combat, but heavy ferro-fibrous is superior to Clan ferro-fibrous composites for protection per ton.  This seems to indicate that the Exile Wolves are building them from unfinished units supplied by Nashan, in line with Jellico's statements below.  One ton was provided from somewhere to increase the bay to five tons, enough to move a point of battle armor.  The armament is pure Clan tech but follows the same basic theme.  The HGR was removed in favor of a HAG/30 (a five ton reduction), while the MMLs were replaced with 9-tube ATMs and the lasers upgraded to Clan equivalents.  I can account for four tons from the HAG/30 - three into the ATMs and one into the transport bay.  Given the flexible nature of ATMs and their more limited ammo endurance compared to the MMLs, I certainly hope the remaining ton went into ATM ammo, giving you 14 turns of fire, but cannot conclude so at this point.  This assumes that the HAG/30 ammo is the same as the HGR load, logical enough given that both types of Gauss weapon get ammo at four rounds per ton, but we'll have to see how things shake out.  This WiGE lacks the crushing power of the original's HGR but has the ability to hammer someone flat with 5 point clusters.  Those looking for unpleasant options to put in the bay could do a lot worse than APGR-armed Elementals, but a full point of Ebon Keshik guards is a possibility, as are (under standard rules) things like captured Ironholds or Coronas.  One last note: the Horses have had traders on Arc-Royal before.  It's not impossible that they could pick up a few of these WiGEs themselves, although that's pure speculation.

The final variant is a little more enigmatic.  Originally described as carrying a fully company of battle armor (64 suits for the LCAF), this was clearly ridiculous, with 20 out of 80 tons accounted for before getting to little luxuries like armor or an engine.  Recent errata has brought this back down to earth with a platoon of armored troopers (16 suits), although we'll need the record sheet from Record Sheets: 3085 Unabridged to get full details.  Going back to their original concept, Nashan yanked the missiles out.  1.5 tons went to machine guns on the front and each side, presumably fed by a half-ton of ammo.  Another ton was invested in upgrading the protection with CASE and another half-ton of armor (probably unnecessary, but what the hey?).  Conservatively, this leaves eight tons available, implied to go into an expanded infantry bay.  That leaves us short four tons of a the sixteen ton bay required to move a platoon of battle armor (or at least a platoon of standard suits using a certain rule in TacOps).  Commentary from one of the Powers That Be in this thread indicates that there is a full platoon there so, as I said, I'll need to see the record sheet before I can offer more information.

Using a Fensalir is a little like using a hover tank.  Note that while this vehicle definitely belongs in the assault category in terms of weapons load and armor, in terms of mobility (especially with a WiGE's need to move 5 hexes a turn), it's really more like a cavalry unit 10 or 15 tons lighter, putting the Fensalir into the odd category of assault cavalry unit.  Exploit the WiGE's unique mobility options, such as free one level elevation going up, "surfing" between ridges, and the like, while doing your best to avoid situations where things like the inability to go into forests or buildings are going to catch you.  But this isn't some dinky little hover tank.  It has a big gun, some other guns for fun, and the ability to drop a few of your buddies into someone's lap.  Use something with jump MPs and you don't even have to land to do a drive-by drop-off.  Maneuvers with a Fensalir are going to emphasize the need to put the guns on target.  Slashing attacks where you blow past an opponent and jerk around as they're forced to keep the front plates looking at your fire support can help with this, but whatever you do, if you don't want to spend a turn on the dirt and another getting airborne again, keep moving five hexes!  Anything with an LB-X or HAG (or a comparable crit-seeker) should be either avoided or mercilessly butchered because flak combined with crit-seeking is a major headache for a Fensalir.  For similar reasons, avoid getting too close to units with a lot of SRMs, especially if they seem to be packing Infernos.  All of the variants are intended for relatively short, sharp engagements, especially the Clan model.  Don't screw around: get into the area, do the job, and go back to base for more ammo (or battle armor, although that's the same thing to some people).  I prefer not to risk ammo on low-probability shots, either, especially missile ammo, although opinions differ on whether a Fensalir will be mobile enough for that to be a concern as opposed to a "use it or lose it" scenario.  Chanman has suggested using Fensalirs as door knockers and then parking them with their battle armor to establish a defensive line, an anvil to hammer the enemy against - I'm not sure how well it works personally but it's certainly an interesting suggestion and the Fensalir is tough enough that this is far from a suicide mission, especially if you can plant them properly to give them good coverage of the battlefield.

Fensalirs are one of those rare units to combine fairly good mobility with tough armor.  Fortunately, it's a relatively slow WiGE, so getting rid of one of those two isn't difficult.  Once it absorbs enough damage to the movement systems to get dinged two MPs (which isn't difficult with LB-X autocannons firing cluster ammo or HAGs - remember, they get a flak bonus!), a Fensalir has to either fly in a straight line or face grounding, then spend five MPs to get airborne again.  This severely constrains their ability to maneuver and, if you get lucky, can actually immobilize one facing in the wrong direction to fire.  (Ironically, the Zorya, as belittled as it is, can do decently right here, although any of the Fensalir variants can probably slaughter it if they get an opportunity.)  Actually killing a Fensalir is more difficult.  These things are heavily armored by just about anyone's standards, so bring big guns and plenty of them or expect to spend a while whittling the armor down.  This task gets a lot easier if you go ahead and cripple it first.  I can easily see one surviving close to a Crockett blast although it's likely to be stuck on the ground due a lack of MPs.

References: The MUL has all three extant variants.  No miniature has been produced yet.

Comedian

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #1 on: 27 March 2013, 12:56:36 »
What TRO are they from?
3085?
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #2 on: 27 March 2013, 13:18:12 »
Great vehicle.
Well, I never used it, but the theory is nice.
I think you could replace the Gauss Rifle with 20 extra tons of Infantry Bays?  >:D
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #3 on: 27 March 2013, 13:21:39 »
I remember that chanman's suggestion(I think it was him) was truly evil, especially for the heavy transport variant. You fly at the target and when you get close, you land, offload the troops...and stay landed. Bingo, your infantry have a self-deploying assault gun and bunker. >:D
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #4 on: 27 March 2013, 13:44:01 »
Is there actually a piece of equipment that allows Infantry to use a vehicle like a structure?^^
Because that would top off the awesomeness.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #5 on: 27 March 2013, 13:51:29 »
Close. TacOps allows infantry to take cover behind other units(obvioulsy not other infantry, aside from mechinf). They get in the same hex as a unit, and pick the hexside they're hiding from. Attacks going in or out of that hexside recieve a to-hit penalty, though the one for the infantry shooting out of the hex is lower than the mod for shooting back at them. This can be done in the same turn you exit a transport. So the Fensalir lands and drops off the troops. They immediately take cover behind this giant brick that happens to have an HGR sticking out the angry end, and they're relatively safe until they decide to leave cover and advance.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #6 on: 27 March 2013, 13:55:49 »
That actually sounds fun and annoying
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #7 on: 27 March 2013, 13:57:55 »
TacOps is practically required reading for anyone who wants to get the most out of their infantry or BA. The thing you can do with those buggers...the things!
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #8 on: 27 March 2013, 15:56:09 »
After reading this I spoke with a mate about this unit he's used it a lot one thing he said it was brilliant for is extraction or capture scenarios

He said one time he flew 3 into an urban map down main streets using buildings for cover landing them facing out at the target that was in a building his BA went into building got the prize when they came out a medium Mech lance was dead loaded back up and flew out

Kinda thing I wish I could get away with!!
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

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Orin J.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #9 on: 30 March 2013, 09:44:19 »
80 tons? they can get that big? *checks TW* geez, that's potentially a lot nastier than i was expectng from this kinda vee.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #10 on: 31 March 2013, 22:57:02 »
Close. TacOps allows infantry to take cover behind other units(obvioulsy not other infantry, aside from mechinf). They get in the same hex as a unit, and pick the hexside they're hiding from. Attacks going in or out of that hexside recieve a to-hit penalty, though the one for the infantry shooting out of the hex is lower than the mod for shooting back at them. This can be done in the same turn you exit a transport. So the Fensalir lands and drops off the troops. They immediately take cover behind this giant brick that happens to have an HGR sticking out the angry end, and they're relatively safe until they decide to leave cover and advance.

Yeah, that was me! My inspiration was when I realized it was basically an assault glider with a heavily armoured assault gun grafted to the nose. But we all know that replacing the HGR with an AC/20 and deep bays of precision ammo would also be great for one or two out of every Fensalir squadron, right?   :)

Your idea is actually pretty similar to the 'Fish of Fury' tactic for Tau in 40K (I don't remember if it carried over to the current edition).

To wit: Tau APCs are hover vehicles with rear doors. Infantry deploy from the rear. Friendly infantry get LOS for shooting through friendly hover vehicles. (It's assumed they get out of the way, I guess?). Enemy infantry do not. Enemy infantry also need to move around the Devilfish APC in order to melee the Tau troops, but the model is physically big enough to prevent most units from doing so. Next turn, the infantry re-board the APC and the APC scoots. The APC is protected from melee attacks in part of its hover trait that makes melee less effective against it.


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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #11 on: 01 April 2013, 00:04:03 »
Your idea is actually pretty similar to the 'Fish of Fury' tactic for Tau in 40K (I don't remember if it carried over to the current edition).

To wit: Tau APCs are hover vehicles with rear doors. Infantry deploy from the rear. Friendly infantry get LOS for shooting through friendly hover vehicles. (It's assumed they get out of the way, I guess?). Enemy infantry do not. Enemy infantry also need to move around the Devilfish APC in order to melee the Tau troops, but the model is physically big enough to prevent most units from doing so. Next turn, the infantry re-board the APC and the APC scoots. The APC is protected from melee attacks in part of its hover trait that makes melee less effective against it.

it still worked in 5th edition, though wasn't quite as effective given that shooting under your own skimmer gave the enemy a cover save, and the enemy should shoot back the same way. haven't tried 6th ed yet, and we'll have a new book soon anyway, but from what i've read and heard it still works, just isn't as effective as it was in 4th ed.

the concept dates back almost as far as armored vehicles. look up Tank desant some time.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2013, 03:10:29 by glitterboy2098 »

chanman

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #12 on: 01 April 2013, 00:54:00 »
The transport version intrigues me. Being orders of magnitude cheaper than a dropship yet far more durable than any conventional aircraft, you could have an ideal platform for deploying assault suits (or conventional infantry with field guns?)

Isn't this a joint-venture between a Lyran and a Feddie company? The MUL availability only lists Republic affiliation for the unit.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2013, 00:58:28 by chanman »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #13 on: 01 April 2013, 15:56:13 »
Isn't this a joint-venture between a Lyran and a Feddie company? The MUL availability only lists Republic affiliation for the unit.

MUL availability for WiGEs is still tentative.  Getting that back under way is on my to-do list.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #14 on: 01 April 2013, 16:53:18 »


Isn't this a joint-venture between a Lyran and a Feddie company? The MUL availability only lists Republic affiliation for the unit.

Only in terms of designing the piece and bringing in a couple of components, such as the armor. The production facilities and the deployment text in TRO 3085 hint at nothing regarding a sale to the FedSuns, even though it certainly doesn't appear unthinkable that such a thing might happen in-universe.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2013, 17:02:01 by ABADDON »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #15 on: 01 April 2013, 20:42:58 »
By the way, I'm always surprised at all the curves in the Fensalir's artwork. In my mind's eye, it always looks like a bastardized clipped-wing Thunderhawk.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #16 on: 01 April 2013, 21:57:45 »
The transport version intrigues me. Being orders of magnitude cheaper than a dropship yet far more durable than any conventional aircraft, you could have an ideal platform for deploying assault suits (or conventional infantry with field guns?)

Isn't this a joint-venture between a Lyran and a Feddie company? The MUL availability only lists Republic affiliation for the unit.

If its in TRO 3085 you can assume that any availability for Fed Suns is in error and should instead read Capellan.
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ABADDON

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #17 on: 02 April 2013, 01:40:25 »
If its in TRO 3085 you can assume that any availability for Fed Suns is in error and should instead read Capellan.

Now, only RAF was actually correct as the Republic has access to literally EVERYTHING for no specific reason, just because.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #18 on: 02 April 2013, 15:45:58 »
Only in terms of designing the piece and bringing in a couple of components, such as the armor. The production facilities and the deployment text in TRO 3085 hint at nothing regarding a sale to the FedSuns, even though it certainly doesn't appear unthinkable that such a thing might happen in-universe.

Nashan has exclusive production rights to the design for 10 years.  That suggests Johnston will get them in the mid-3090s.  All of the deployment information suggests that the LCAF is buying the first production runs up exclusively but we don't have any information regarding their planning past 3086.

And as I said, availability reviews for WiGEs haven't been done yet.  I'm not saying the FS will have it when they are, either, just that WiGE availability is still tentative at this stage.

Now, only RAF was actually correct as the Republic has access to literally EVERYTHING for no specific reason, just because.

No, they don't, and that's not assigned "just because".  In addition to inheriting a lot of hardware from a wide variety of different forces, the Republic is an active participant in the Inner Sphere arms trade.
« Last Edit: 02 April 2013, 16:01:57 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #19 on: 02 April 2013, 16:22:11 »

No, they don't, and that's not assigned "just because".  In addition to inheriting a lot of hardware from a wide variety of different forces, the Republic is an active participant in the Inner Sphere arms trade.

They get basically every neat new unit from TRO 3085 and 3085 sup, even stuff like the Gürteltier.

Hell, they even have frikkin Daishis, Hellstars and Mad Cats.
And yes, I may have been exaggerating a little, but what the RotS has access to is quite literally astonishing, if not outright ridiculous.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #20 on: 02 April 2013, 17:44:10 »
They get basically every neat new unit from TRO 3085 and 3085 sup, even stuff like the Gürteltier.

Hell, they even have frikkin Daishis, Hellstars and Mad Cats.
And yes, I may have been exaggerating a little, but what the RotS has access to is quite literally astonishing, if not outright ridiculous.

You're welcome to your opinion of our decisions but I'd appreciate it if you didn't accuse the MUL Team of handing out access to the Republic because we felt like it.  I guarantee you that's not what happened and I gave you the general explanation of why decisions were made the way they were.  If you have a good reason specific unit availability decisions are wrong, please post it in the Errata thread.  We'll be happy to take a look.

To deal with your specific examples:
- The Dire Wolves and Timber Wolves were inherited from the Clan components of their forces.  Keep in mind that the Nova Cats, who had access to both 'Mechs and retain access to the Timber Wolf, contributed their best Galaxies to the Republic Armed Forces.  There were smaller inheritances from other Clans including the Wolves.
- The Hellstar is available to four of the Houses.  It would be astonishing if someone with good relations with both of the manufacturing Clans didn't have access at that point.  Marik's various remnants are probably buying them in small but not notable numbers.  The decisions here are based on the Dark Age material from WizKids.  (Whether their decisions make sense is another matter, one for a different thread in another part of the boards.)
- I imagine the Gurtie's export to the Federated Suns and the Republic is due to the close ties the Lyrans have with both realms.  The MUL decisions were made (by me in this case) because that's what's in TRO3085.

Now can we get back to the Fensalir?

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #21 on: 02 April 2013, 17:54:10 »
Yes, we can.
However, I didn't try to charge the MUL team with incompetence or anything (didn't even know that you basically had the authority to decide who gets what), but I just had the general feel ever since I had a first closer look at the MUL and even the texts in TRO 3085 and Sup that there were rarely any designs left that the RAF didn't have access too, which is just ridiculously overpowered compared to every other house. Anyways... Fensalir.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #22 on: 02 April 2013, 17:55:53 »
Let me clarify something: I don't have that authority.  These things get decided by the group based on the evidence unless a directive comes down from on high.  I'm just the one who did the research and prepared the recommendations for everyone to look over for the tracked, wheeled, and VTOL combat vehicles.

I made the decision there in the sense that I didn't recommend expanding on the TRO any further and no one dissented.

Moving back to the Fensalir, has anyone else used it in combat?  I'm curious as to how well the Clan version fared.  It doesn't have the HGR but the number of five point hits it can sledgehammer someone with is pretty hefty.
« Last Edit: 02 April 2013, 18:04:19 by Moonsword »

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #23 on: 02 April 2013, 19:54:48 »
Let me clarify something: I don't have that authority.  These things get decided by the group based on the evidence unless a directive comes down from on high.  I'm just the one who did the research and prepared the recommendations for everyone to look over for the tracked, wheeled, and VTOL combat vehicles.

I made the decision there in the sense that I didn't recommend expanding on the TRO any further and no one dissented.

Moving back to the Fensalir, has anyone else used it in combat?  I'm curious as to how well the Clan version fared.  It doesn't have the HGR but the number of five point hits it can sledgehammer someone with is pretty hefty.

The number of five point hits it can deal out mainly says one thing to me: This thing would have the ability to lay waste to BA formations using suits with 9 or less points of armour, shortly before dropping its own Clan BA for mop-up.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #24 on: 02 April 2013, 23:01:15 »
Hello,

TRO3085 was written from the POV of the Republic Military. It is therefore rather natural that it is screwed more towards units they understand and deal with. Their intel doesn't really care if House Podunk, in the middle of the Nowhere Cluster, built a new 20 ton APC.

Remember that the Homeworlds were introducing new technology at this time. It didn't make it into 3085 because 3085 was Republic focused.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #25 on: 06 April 2013, 19:52:36 »
So that means we're going to get a TRO 3090 with a more generalist approach, right?   8)   (Note: I could care less who gets what, I just want MOAR TOYZ!!! I am a very simple individual really...honest!)

Seriously though, I just can't seem to get a real grasp of these things (WIGEs) in general, but for some reason the Fensalir just seems to make sense as a sub orbital assault unit and semi-mobile bunker support platform. Take a drop ship into low altitudes (unless it can be done at higher altitudes I guess) drop them off 50-60 klicks out, and the transport bugs out for a safe point. These things auger on in at speed, slam into the ground and disgorge troops while providing fire, and then as the troops start to edge forward they shift up slowly to support them. That was a really, really good idea chanman had there. If they had another ton of ammo for like smoke or something it would work even better really. Two tons does feel a tad light really.

That transport model cold prove to be pretty evil in combat, but it also stands to be the single most utterly awesome support troop carrier ever invented!

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #26 on: 06 April 2013, 20:01:49 »
TRO: Prototypes is sometimes referred to as TRO:3090

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #27 on: 10 June 2018, 09:52:37 »
RIIIIISEE!

I've recently read that there's a few newer variants of the Fensalir, based off the Schildkröte, of all things.
And a Stealth version. Any thoughts on those? And who thought about that after all that time it was probably more of a niche unit?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #28 on: 10 June 2018, 09:55:00 »
Source?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #29 on: 10 June 2018, 12:35:01 »
I wonder if we'll ever get a record sheet for this.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #30 on: 10 June 2018, 14:03:33 »
Are we talking about an NTNU blurb in TRO 3150?
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #31 on: 10 June 2018, 15:08:39 »
Seems that way. Gives 3 different variants, a 3132 variant, a 3137 variant and a Stealth upgrade.

AldanFerrox

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #32 on: 10 June 2018, 16:18:30 »
Hopefully we get the Record Sheets for these vehicles some day.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #33 on: 10 June 2018, 16:56:09 »
So I couldn't find them because there aren't any. That explains it. 
I remembered wanting to post here and today just took a quick glance at Sarna to remember.
Said one had the Schildkröte's weapons, and now I'm wondering if those were really that heavy.
Ah well, if there's nothing to be seen, so be it. Interesting Idea, though.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #34 on: 10 June 2018, 17:05:52 »
Well, there is the XXL version from XTRO Most Wanted ;)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #35 on: 12 June 2018, 13:30:11 »
I remember that chanman's suggestion(I think it was him) was truly evil, especially for the heavy transport variant. You fly at the target and when you get close, you land, offload the troops...and stay landed. Bingo, your infantry have a self-deploying assault gun and bunker. >:D

EXCEPT that the main gun is not on a turret.....so anything NOT in the forward facing is free to shoot at you with minimal repose.  If it had a turret, it'd be a sound plan though.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #36 on: 12 June 2018, 13:35:43 »
EXCEPT that the main gun is not on a turret.....so anything NOT in the forward facing is free to shoot at you with minimal repose.  If it had a turret, it'd be a sound plan though.

It's still going to work pretty well against something big and slow though. Or something with a turret locked in one direction.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #37 on: 12 June 2018, 14:16:04 »
EXCEPT that the main gun is not on a turret.....so anything NOT in the forward facing is free to shoot at you with minimal repose.  If it had a turret, it'd be a sound plan though.

If you brought infantry, you don't have any excuse for uncovered flanks. Also, you can still turn when on the ground. This end toward enemy, and all that. It's not an auto-win strategy, you still have to do some work.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: Fensalir Combat WiGE (Repost)
« Reply #38 on: 12 June 2018, 17:13:21 »
This end toward enemy, and all that.

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